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Michael – “People who truly believe that the climate is changing catastrophically do not seem to be interested in global greening, it hurts their narrative.”
Both claims are false; I believe you are projecting.
I counter-claim that you have shown very little interest in the current ‘greening’.
Greening is talked about Michael, extensively if you look.
Yes there is greening happening and a large part of that is due to carbon fertilisation. The two countries that account for the majority of the area of greening equivalent to that of mainland USA are China and India. Both of those countries introduced specific measures to increase forests etc in an effort to help clean their air. Also some of that greening comes from increased crop planting in both those countries (nitrogen).Despite all the greening that has already happened CO2 in the atmosphere is still increasing and emissions are increasing still. The greening isn’t able to keep up with the amount of CO2 emitted.
Also, apparently plants acclimatise to the extra CO2 and the greening diminishes over time.
ET
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“Greening is talked about Michael, extensively if you look”well you would not know that from the BBC, unless I blinked and missed it.
Not sure what the latest position is, with regard to Global Greening, but a few years ago the figure was 21% extra Greening, I guess they meant the total the land had greened in the previous thirty years or so, that Sat. information has been gathered.
I believe they are now claiming that the World extra Greening, is equivalent to two continental U.S.A.s.
New study about to be undertaken
“The satellite that will ‘weigh’ world’s 1.5 trillion trees”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crldwjj6d6noSorry if I have been less than friendly, I have earache and sinusitis, it is painful, not been getting enough sleep, just started antibiotics, today.
michaelET, thankyou for those two BBC articles.
The most recent one was six years ago.
Perhaps the BBC should gird its loins and do a programme
on Global Greening?Michael, you are correct, they are from a while ago. So also is the NASA study that presented the analysis of the data from the two satellites upon which all this greening topic is based.
My appraisal of your argument is this:
CO2 levels in the atmosphere have increased and some of that is because of human activity. However, that increase in carbon dioxide (or green house gases) drives a feedback mechanism of carbon fertilisation which will tend to reduce Carbon dioxide levels (and increase greening as a positive consequence). Thus as a result we need not worry about climate change, can carry on emitting CO2 for economic, national interest, employment reasons because the planet’s feedback mechanisms will sort it out for us. No need for unnecessary concern.I’ll point to just one counter to that argument. There are a number of others which we may get to yet. CO2 atmospheric levels are still rising despite the greening of an area twice that of the continental US. Does that fact alone not give you pause for thought?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crldwjj6d6no
ET,
I think the Americans have just been measuring green leaf coverage – not mass of tree wood.
The new scan will measure tree wood mass.
With flowering trees, they have an awful lot of leaf coverage, each year that abundance of leaf falls to the earth, most of that leaf will form new top soil. if there is a greater mass of top soil, then there will be an increasing greater abundance of short cycle Carbon held in the soil.
This greater abundance of Carbon will retain a greater quantity of water, the slow release of that water to the flowering trees, could increase their growing days, meaning each annual tree ring will be wider, meaning more mass of Carbon in the short Carbon cycle held in those trees.
So, extra CO2 should mean more Carbon stored in the soils and more Carbon stored in the trees.
I expect that extra Carbon dioxide in the Atmosphere will have the greatest effect ( on land) in the great deciduous forests of the tropics and the temperate zones.ET,
yes, I do find it a bit astonishing, that it is being recorded as continually increasing.
Perhaps you need the greening first, then more gradually the trees bulk up?C’mon Michael, I asked you a very specific question. Despite greening of an area equivalent to two times the area of the continental United States atmospheric CO2 levels are still rising. Fact vs fact. It surely must cause concern for the sheer magnitude of emissions of CO2?
Please don’t dissemble and deflect. Just take on that specific point before you expound on anything else.I have just done some calculations and it seems the mass of trees on Earth is 17 times greater that the Carbon we annually pump into the air.
So, it seems I am mistaken and it would seem there will not be a fix, this way.
Can you calculate the mass of new trees/plant growth for this 12 months Vs the amount of CO2 emitted the same twelve months?
Please describe your methodology you are using so we can attempt to replicate your results.“Shibboleth, I do not think I am in a corner“
Boom! As ET has delightfully illustrated, it’s all about perspective. Now where is that fag packet?
Shibboleth
excellent,
“Now where is that fag packet?”
I do not smoke. When I was young, that was an often trotted out phrase, first time I think I have heard it in thirty or forty years. It is a good phrase, as i barely know anybody who still smokes, i am not sure how useful it will be but I will slip it in to a suitable chat, one day.
You are more or less right, the calculation i did was using the calculator on my P.C. and using “stuff” I quickly gleaned from google. So very superficial.“Shibboleth, I do not think I am in a corner“
In that, I was meaning the vast amount of people on planet Earth.
Only the educated classes/political classes are truly interested in Net Zero.
It is mostly not understood and not wanted by the masses.
The Labour Party in the U.K. seem obsessed but i bet most of their voters
will have little interest in becoming unemployed, just so the Elites can feel good about themselves.
Most people understand, it is one set of rules for the Elite and another set of rules for ordinary people, who must be talked down to.
If we are to have Democracy, it should mean that ordinary people must be allowed to hold their own views and have the right to express those views. They do not want the political classes talking down to them and ever imposing more restrictions on their small lives.
Be it pandemics, be it Ukraine/Russia or Israel/Palestine/Yemen or be it Net Zero or be it we are stupid because we voted to leave the E.U.
Those are some of the reasons why many are now ditching the Conservative / labour Party idiots and voting for Reform.
They have had enough of the bullying and being talked down to.Quote Clark
Michael – “People who truly believe that the climate is changing catastrophically do not seem to be interested in global greening, it hurts their narrative.”Both claims are false; I believe you are projecting.
I counter-claim that you have shown very little interest in the current ‘greening’.
Clark, I do not understand what you mean, sorry.
Can you flesh your points out a bit, then perhaps I can respond in a better fashion.
michael“greening” is used by the political Elite to mean something that is a haze, perhaps like “the clothes of an emperor”.
I guess they mean Nuclear Reactors not that renwable
I guess they mean Solar Farms, which remove green from the Earth to be replaced by open cast excavated and refined minerals. When a Solar Farm comes to the end of its days ( 15-25 years) they steam roller over the panels, the only bit that is retained is the Aluminium alloy frames. Solar Panels made by Ethnic Minority slave labour under the direction of the Chinese Communist Party.
Wood pellets.
Old growth Forests clear felled in North America, using fossil Fuels, then transported a further four thousand miles using Fuel Oil to Yorkshire. Yes, the trees were actually growing once – but this does seem a strange concoction of events, just to tick some boxes.ET
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“Can you calculate the mass of new trees/plant growth for this 12 months Vs the amount of CO2 emitted the same twelve months?
Please describe your methodology you are using so we can attempt to replicate your results.”
Sorry, I am not a scientist nor a maths person.
However, you made a good point.
If somebody is capable of undertaking that work, I would enjoy reading it and thinking it through.
I think it would be extremely useful.Wind Turbine Blades, that can not be economically recycled, they are left in deserts or landfilled.
“It is a good phrase”
I’m sure I can furnish you with a few more, Michael, some you will never have heard before. But I must beg leave from your “musings” – I do try to spend most of my time on things I enjoy and can influence in a positive manner. I’m sure you will have others to converse and learn from in the future.
Kindest.
Could a kind admin please correct my auto-correct spelling mistakes in the last sentence in my post May 6 19:57 so I don’t look like a moron. 🙏 😏
Does/notBank of England cuts bank rate, again.
slower inflation arises from lower oil and gas prices.
Ed Milliband keeps repeating that we have the highest electricity in the U.K. because of high Natural Gas prices, he may have to change his tune?
New Off-Shore Wind Farm in North Sea, now not going ahead as too expensive, to take a risk on?Heathrow shutdown cause still unknown, report says
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6283577llqoBlow to clean energy drive as major windfarm ditched
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce848g8l8vro
Quote BBC
“In a significant blow to the government’s clean energy ambitions the Danish energy company Orsted has cancelled plans for a huge windfarm off the coast of East Yorkshire.The Hornsea 4 project would have become one of the biggest offshore wind farms in the world with a potential capacity of 2.4GW – enough to power more than a million homes.
Orsted said the project no longer made economic sense, despite signing a 15-year contract with the UK government guaranteeing to sell power at an agreed price.
The UK’s offshore wind sector has faced soaring costs in recent years, as the government has acknowledged.”
The cost of Natural Gas is coming down.
As it seems likely that the Russia/Ukraine War will end this year, there will be a surfeit of Natural Gas, sloshing about in Europe.
Opening new Natural Gas – Electricity plants will be cheaper than developing off-shore wind.
At the moment only 5% of our electricity is coming from wind, yet we have a huge amount of turbines.
