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On Pikabu there’s a video report from Washington:
https://pikabu.ru/story/bessmertnyiy_polk_vernulsya_v_vashington_pamyat_pesni_i_provokatsii_12683493#comments
“The Immortal Regiment action goes again in the American capital after six-year pause. Despite attempts by pro-Ukrainian activists to disrupt the event (yellow-blue flags and loud slogans), hundreds of people – immigrants from the former USSR and Americans – peacefully marched from the White House to the war memorial.”I commented:
“There is something wrong with the logic of those with blue and yellow flags.
The Immortal Regiment is an event in memory of the fallen soldiers of the USSR.
Ukraine was part of the USSR.
What are they unhappy with today?
It would be logical and morally correct if they joined the procession with their flags and honored the memory of their own ancestors.”my comment got 207 upvotes and 7 downvotes, and most of the responses can be summarized as:
“the descendants of the opposing side in that war are protesting”There are still people who believe that Ukraine is a democracy, and that their ruling regime is not nazi.
I’ll share this here, to prove them wrong.
https://pikabu.ru/story/na_ukraine_zaderzhali_devushku_kotoraya_slushala_pesnyu_den_pobedyi_12704484A girl in the street gets detained by the police. The dialogue, shortly:
– what’s wrong?
– you’re listening to Russian song
– so what?
– it’s forbidden
– it’s just a song (*the song is the “Victory Day” performed by Joseph Kobzon)
– you cannot listen Russian songs
– it’s so wrong! Our ancestors…. hey, I’m doing my prayers in Russian, would you arrest me for praying in Russian?
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Earlier I’ve seen reports about advertising on kids TV channels. Ukrainian security service runs ads encouraging kids to call up SBU if they see their siblings or friends listening to Russian music.Tatyana,
I’m sure you, of all people, understand why? Perhaps the Ukrainians have the same loathing and hatred of Russians as you quite clearly have of them.
How can you have true peace, friendship, love and respect for each other when you are consumed so?
Kind regards,
S.
With all due respect, Shibboleth, I am far from understanding.
Iy’s not about hate speeches that emotionally involved individuals allow themselves on the Internet, expressing their attitude.
I am talking about the state law that the police implement, in the real world arresting people for listening and speaking in their native language!
There are many Ukrainians living in Russia, but they are not discriminated against.
In Ukraine, speaking Russian is dangerous, Russian-language media is banned, Russian books are removed from libraries and burned, children are asked to inform on their relatives!
Maybe this is not Nazism? Let’s come up with another word, for example, National-Totalitarianism. But whatever you call it, I don’t understand how to evaluate what’s happening, except condemnation. Not a single positive word comes to mind.I have close friends both Russian and Ukrainian, albeit all now living in the UK. Not one has the same repulsive hatred of the other that you regularly display. There will be elements in both countries that will have and encourage such – but as individuals we all have responsibility to be true to ourselves and to each other. I would encourage you to cultivate this simple but extremely important principle. Instead of building barriers, reach out. It is the only way. Subjection has never provided a good outcome. If you truly desire peace – embrace and show it. Everything else leads to the word you cannot find – it’s called delusion.
Kindest.
“Not one has the same repulsive hatred of the other that you regularly display.”
I wasn’t going to comment on your last post to Tatyana as I am sure she can defend herself eloquently, as she has just done.
In all of Tatyana’s posts I have read over the last number of years on any topic I don’t think she has ever expressed hatred of anyone or any nationality. Indeed I think she has been at pains to point out the historic connection that Ukraine and Russia have.What Tatyana has done consistently is highlight how the fascist regime currently in power in Ukraine legislated in an attempt to eradicate russian language, russian culture, russian literature and anything russian related, all in a country where half the population speaks and uses the russian language in their daily lives.
Burning russian books, intimidating people speaking russian, arresting teenagers for listening to russian music? What part of that ideology do you not see as fascist? Fascism being the most heinous ideology that can exist for the governance of any nation. You know, the one the world came together with Russia to defeat and which the Russians made a 27 million sacrifice to defeat.Language and culture are part of daily life. It is a heinous thing for a regime to legislate to suppress them. And Tatyana is correct to point to it.
Mr.Cromwell and the Brits almost succeeded wiping out the Irish language with the penal laws from the 1600’s on. Almost.
Shibboleth, your comment was out of order.
Thank you very much, ET, for joining the discussion and for your feedback on my position.
I really don’t want this to come to a standoff, and I hope to bring everyone’s positions a little closer to understanding.Shibboleth’s words made me fear that I had become infected with hatred for a nation that is one of the branches of my own ancestors, and whose language I used to speak at home, and recall today with warm memories of my dear grandmother (after whom I was actually named).
I’d also like to draw Shibboleth’s attention to the fact that they get their impressions from people who have gone to a safe place. Perhaps the position of a guest in a third country makes their opinions more restrained than mine.
I remain here in Krasnodar, Russia, very close to the border with Ukraine. With drone attacks, with people fleeing here from the war, with relatives testifying about what is happening first-hand.
Like one of my cousins who directly participated there. Like another cousin of mine who provides volunteer assistance to the refugees. Like my nephew, a medical student, sent to help in the Kursk region and who performed amputations on civilians. And, as the mother of an adult son, my only child, for whom I do not want any of the horrors of war, but do not have the opportunity to change my place of residence to a safer one. To sit there safely and talk about a large amount of hatred in people.
I beg to not get it as a disrespect, just describing what the things are from my point of view.And also, I live within the missile range indicated by some high-ranking American dude with too many fingers on his hand. The very missiles that the British government would very much like to supply on an industrial scale to the Ukrainian regime. They hate us.
However, if my government had the idea to ban English language, literature, culture here, to arrest people listening to songs in English, then I would actively protest against such a law.
Guess why.And once again I express my gratitude, ET.
The fact that I can defend myself doesn’t contradict the fact that your support and help in clarifying my position is highly appreciated! Thank you!
Tatyana
Thank you for the considered and measured reply. I understand your emotions – one cannot imagine living under a daily barrage of rockets, missiles and drone attacks, the fear and loathing such atrocities – which always accompany such. It is exactly the same for those on the other side of the line. Hate begets hate; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. Martin Luther King’s words ring true today as ever. Even in asymmetrical warfare and genocide – like in Palestine – the same doctrine applies. There are no losers – only generations of hardened bitter enemies.
I do understand your frustration – and acknowledge there will always be an element of ‘lost in translation’ -but please try and restrain your language; using terms like fascists, Nazis ad nauseum and applying it generally to the ordinary people really doesn’t help. Words are more powerful than bullets and bombs after all.
I also appreciate the political ordure promoted by the US, UK and other NATO countries and the nefarious influence of the former’s intelligence and military apparatus. I have little doubt they have relished the war – stupid men playing stupid games with innocent lives as the wager. The same applies to the military in Russia and Ukraine.
For the like of you and I – and everyone else – we have a responsibility to counterbalance this pernicious ideology in how we act – and converse. To complete MLK’s quote with an amendment:
“Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate the other, but to win his friendship and understanding.”
Worth a try?
Kindest.
Shibboleth, please accept my sincere assurances that I’ve caught the vibe of your message. You have touched a very deep chord in my soul, and I would very much like to passionately respond to this call.
It may just be that I’m in the wrong place at the wrong time at the moment. Yet maybe I’m the wrong person, in general. That’s why:
Firstly, respect for freedom of speech is one of the main reasons why I’ve been commenting on this site for so long. I’m encouraged by the position of our host Mr. Murray in this regard.
I.e. I believe that I have the right to say what I see. Openly and honestly. Just say what I see.Secondly, my education in linguistics means that for several years they taught me how to find the most accurate definitions to correctly convey the meaning in the target language.
I.e. I believe I can choose the most accurate word.Thirdly, I was brought up in an environment with zero tolerance for nazism.
I.e. if I see something nazi, that’s what I call it.Fourthly, about the use of strong words – euphemisms (substitutes, allusions, mild or hinting descriptions) serve to ensure that protected members of society (like children or the disabled) don’t receive an unexpected attack on their tender feelings.
In this situation, where we discuss the detention of a girl by the Ukrainian police, I simply don’t see why the police should suddenly belong to the protected stratum? They literally embody the exclusive right of the state to violence.
I e, I see no reason to replace my words with euphemisms when speaking about state law and the police that implements it.
Even if my choice of words may upset some potentially good people.To respond to your call and to go against the listed values, would be a significant break in my personality.
I don’t see worthy reasons for which I could sacrifice myself. Sorry, I’m just not that type of hero.
—-
I certainly have a suggestion that imo could resolve these contradictions and free everyone from dissonance and the need to sacrifice something.
Just imagine for a moment that the state of Ukraine stops prohibiting its population from praying or listening to songs in their own native language.Tetyana
I have read all of your contributions over the past few years and value your comments. You are close to the conflict and have personal experience that many of us do not. I read the same views from Ukrainian mothers about Russia – it is always the same in war. I don’t disagree with much of what you write – it’s living history after all and your perspective. You share your name with a close friend from Ukraine – a wonderful vocalist who is a privilege to accompany. I can’t imagine any State trying to prohibit her, but I believe they do shoot songbirds in some countries. Nothing surprises me anymore.
I recommend you read Craig Murray’s recent post about the security services in the UK. I agree with every word. In a former life I provided a report on the NHS to Gordon Brown (chancellor) and Alan Milburn (the health secretary) in 2003 – just before the Iraq war. Like many, I had serious reservations over 9/11 and the basis for war to the point where shortly after the invasion I wrote to the former advising I could no longer provide any of my time and further would be withholding my income tax unless they could unequivocally prove that WMD’s were present in Iraq – and the evidence where 17 Saudi nationals could commandeer commercial aircraft, fly them into buildings and defy Newton’s Third Law. They never did and I haven’t paid any income tax since.
The British State is a criminal enterprise at best – most other countries are the same – USA, Russia, Ukraine, Israel ad infinitum. They brainwash their populations, lie and manipulate news and events – and wage war at a whim. The rest of us are mere pawns, inconsequential and irrelevant.
I’ve never grieved so deeply or cried so freely, at the heartbreaking pain of losses this world endures at the moment. I suspect you and many others do too.
Somehow, we have to try and change this way of living. It can only start with the likes of you and I and every other decent, concerned but determined human being. If we stop talking war and embracing tribalism – and start reaching out to understand and embrace each other’s experience – we might, just might have a chance for what’s ahead.
Thank you again for the considered reply.
Best,
