- This topic has 14 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Clark.
May 7, 2021 at 19:19 #70919SA
This is now the pressing question for those of us who joined the labour party when Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader and when the Labour party became a party of its members and the labour manifesto reflected Labour’s original values.
But to analyse why Labour is doing badly we need to go back to 2017, a stunning turnaround for Labour and for Corbyn that left his critics gasping. Obviously the centrists were not prepared for this and were hoping that a bad performance in 2017 would led to deposition of Corbyn. But this shock and disappointment led to a much deeper plot to discredit Corbyn. Sadly this same plot has become a stain on the Labour party that even Starmer cannot remove because the net effect was to show Labour as a divided party with serious disloyalties within its ranks, to its elected leader. Labour took several months to elect a new leader in 2020 thereby losing a lot of valuable time addressing the gross incompetence with which Johnson handled the Pandemic. Despite his promises to keep the Corbyn socialist agenda, Starmer has not kept his promises, nor indeed has he produced any inspiring pitch for any policy. The next few months were then spent in trying to purge Corbynism from the party, spending more time on this than on fighting the Tories. Starmer had an open goal with Tory incompetence, misgovernment and sleaze and was totally ineffective in presenting anything resembling an alternative government or leadership. As a result labour now is where it is, without direction, without policies and with clueless leader. Some deluded centrists are attributing Labour’s failure not to Starmer, but to the effect of Corbyn. Corbyn did not lose Hartlepool, but Starmer did. But of course all of this will lead to more purge of the Corbynists in the party and a further lurch to the right.May 8, 2021 at 17:26 #70956Pigeon English
Well I blame Right wing media mostly and BBC.
Obvious cronyism and corruption get’s called “Lobbying scandal” if it’s ever on front pages.
“minuscule” trade agreement with EU is big success on front pages!
Fishing problems, 3rd country status etc. It’s all blamed on Eu, on front pages of Tory, Brexit supporting media.
Starmer has articles printed (I believe) in Telegraf. Really? “red wall” reads Torygraf. He will convert Telegraf readers!?!May 8, 2021 at 17:38 #70957ET
Though I lived and voted in the UK for many years I no longer do and therefore don’t vote in UK elections. I have siblings who still do. In a recent discussion with some of my siblings: “I don’t like Jeremy Corbyn.” “Why?” “I just don’t like him.” “But why, give me a characteristic or policy you don’t like?” “I can’t give you an example but I just don’t like him and he is unelectable.” Jeremy Corbyn is possibly one of the most inoffensive politicians ever to have existed but yet otherwise normal people don’t like him for reasons they cannot elucidate.
Contrast with Boris Johnson. I list the horrific stewardship of the pandemic, the slew of sleaze allegations, the contemptable waste of tax payer’s money on his mates. “Ah, but I have a soft spot for Boris, I still kind of like him.” “What? Why? What do you like about him?” I press harder for more details and the discussion descends into acrimony.
I don’t know why people cannot objectively assess but that there is the problem. I suspect that it is largely driven by the media platforms, all of them both old and new. It’s not just a fight for the labour party. It’s a fight for the objectivity of humanity and we are losing that fight. I don’t know how we can swing the balance so objectivity is winning.May 8, 2021 at 19:01 #70960SA
I had a similar discussion with a long standing friend who is an eminent Professor. He was totally dismissive of Corbyn and his line was that the electorate in this country does not really want socialism and have repeatedly rejected it. Most people are well off under capitalism and benefit from the fact that globalization and neo-colonialism benefits those in the developed world and do not want to upset the applecart. The fact that a few rich people get richer and that politicians benefit from these arrangements do not seem to matter to the average voter.
The same voters will welcome policies like privatization of the railways, and the universal benefit of the NHS but look no further at the policies of the parties. Combined with the total control of the media by a handful of billionaires and a state run corporation, there is no hope that anything will change soon.May 8, 2021 at 19:07 #70961SA
Starmer is a latter day Kinnock but without the oratorical power or character to carry out any effective purge of the left which is what he is seeking. Starmer has always been a trusted member of the establishment and that is why he was appointed a DPP. He proved his worth in the Assange Swedish extradition case.May 9, 2021 at 21:44 #70983Clark
Referring to ET’s comment, May 8, 17:38 –
That’s how propaganda works; by creating impressions.
I remember such impressions from when I was a child. I just knew that Conservatives were proper politicians whereas Labour were not. I just knew that Russia was a dark and dismal place where everyone was perpetually miserable.
My antidote turned out to be My Life in the Bush of Ghosts by Brian Eno and David Byrne. The various tracks set indoctrinating speaking to music, and thereby somehow revealed its subliminal influence to my consciousness. From then on, I couldn’t read, watch or listen to “news” without feeling its hooks trying to penetrate my mind. It was so insidious that I banned the lot from my living space.
I had minimal engagement with current affairs until the internet came along and put me in charge of the flow of information.May 9, 2021 at 22:31 #70985ET
I think Clark that the crucial step is taking control of one’s own informaton flow. Not to an extent that you lock yourself into an echo chamber. It takes time and effort. It seems most people are not willing to bother.May 10, 2021 at 06:19 #70993SA
I had the opposite impression about the Soviet Union and was aware at the age of about 8 of the propaganda of imperialism and the extremely evil influence that US foreign policy played in the world.May 10, 2021 at 06:25 #70994SA
Some lock themselves up and develop their own echo chamber and only read what they want to hear. I still read the Guardian and listen to the BBC as well as other sources. As long as you apply a filter and understand what is being said, the way it is said and what is left unsaid you get much better insight as to the control of the narrative.May 10, 2021 at 09:14 #71004Clark
ET – “It seems most people are not willing to bother.”
It takes time and effort, but too many people are too busy just earning enough money.
The toxic system is self-reinforcing. It appropriates people’s time and effort. It places us in perpetual insecurity; even those on better rates of pay are enticed into insecurity via debt.
And why would people look beyond the corporate narratives in the first place? They seem consistent; there isn’t a billionaire’s mansion on each housing estate, the toxic waste is dumped out of sight, the greater oppression is in other countries where other governments can be blamed, and the corporate files of the environmental destruction are private.May 10, 2021 at 09:23 #71005Clark
SA, from where did you get that impression of the Soviet Union, and how did you know about propaganda, US policy and imperialism? Did you find your perspective at odds with media perspectives?
– “Some lock themselves up and develop their own echo chamber…”
Search engines and social media play a big role in this. It’s like letting little kids choose their own meals by always offering whichever sweets they’ve favoured before.May 10, 2021 at 12:56 #71017SA
GB is not the world.May 10, 2021 at 13:01 #71018SA
The good thing about being disillusioned is that it drives you away from the echo chamber bubble you get yourself into and away from your comfort zone. Then you can pick and choose and even get disillusioned yet again and so on. But the process could lead to better discrimination in processing ‘news’.May 10, 2021 at 14:53 #71022SA
“Search engines and social media play a big role in this.”
Search engines and social media are extremely new constructs and may at present be the main source for say those born after 1995 or 2000. But for the rest of us, our habits, prejudices and selective processes were set much before then.May 10, 2021 at 16:21 #71024Clark
SA – “GB is not the world.”
Yes, I tend to comment from a UK perspective by default, and it is the only one I have actually experienced. I assume by this you mean that you spent at least some of your early years outside the UK.