The Legal Position on the Israeli Attack

by craig on May 31, 2010 5:30 pm in Palestine

I think that anybody with any fairness is bound to admit that the statement William Hague came out with is much better than anything on Israel which New Labour ever came out with, especially this bit:

“This news underlines the need to lift the restrictions on access to Gaza, in line with UNSCR 1860. The closure is unacceptable and counter-productive. There can be no better response from the international community to this tragedy than to achieve urgently a durable resolution to the Gaza crisis.

I call on the Government of Israel to open the crossings to allow unfettered access for aid to Gaza, and address the serious concerns about the deterioration in the humanitarian and economic situation and about the effect on a generation of young Palestinians

?.”

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/news/latest-news/?view=News&id=22300485

But as I told this afternoon’s tremendous spontaneous demonstration on Whitehall, fine words are not enough and we must now see the kind of sanctions regime we saw against apartheid South Africa.

A word on the legal position, which is very plain. To attack a foreign flagged vessel in international waters is illegal. It is not piracy, as the Israeli vessels carried a military commission. It is rather an act of illegal warfare.

Because the incident took place on the high seas does not mean however that international law is the only applicable law. The Law of the Sea is quite plain that, when an incident takes place

on a ship on the high seas (outside anybody’s territorial waters) the applicable law is that of the flag state of the ship on which the incident occurred. In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory.

There are therefore two clear legal possibilities.

Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists on the ships. In that case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey, and the act falls under international jurisdiction as a war crime.

Possibility two is that, if the killings were not authorised Israeli military action, they were acts of murder under Turkish jurisdiction. If Israel does not consider itself in a position of war with Turkey, then it must hand over the commandos involved for trial in Turkey under Turkish law.

In brief, if Israel and Turkey are not at war, then it is Turkish law which is applicable to what happened on the ship. It is for Turkey, not Israel, to carry out any inquiry or investigation into events and to initiate any prosecutions. Israel is obliged to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution.

Craig Murray is a former British Ambassador. He is also a former Head of the Maritime Section of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. He negotiated the UK’s current maritime boundaries with Ireland, Denmark (Faeroes), Belgium and France, and boundaries of the Channel Islands, Turks and Caicos and British Virgin Islands. He was alternate Head of the UK Delegation to the UN Preparatory Commission on the Law of the Sea. He was Head of the FCO Section of the Embargo Surveillance Centre, enforcing sanctions on Iraq, and directly responsible for clearance of Royal Navy boarding operations in the Persian Gulf.

Reviews of Craig Murray’s War on Terror Memoir, “Murder in Samarkand” – published in the US as “Dirty Diplomacy”:

“It really is a magnificent achievement” – Noam Chomsky

“A fearless book by a fearless man. Craig Murray tells the truth whether the “authorities” like it or not. I salute a man of integrity” – Harold Pinter

Tweet this post

139 Comments

  1. Like the tragically abused who in adulthood themselves become paedophile abusers, Israel’s blood-spattered goons prove themselves yet again true inheritors of the SS legacy.

    Where is Obama in all this? As Nader, an early employer of the future president in the south end of Chicago, put it the morning he was elected: ‘His modus operandi is compliance.’

    Obama’s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, masquerades for diplomatic purposes as a self-hating Jew. The truth is that during the first Gulf War he volunteered not to assist the US but rushed to assist Israeli forces, losing part of his middle finger in the process. His first name, Rahm, he acquired in honour of a family friend, a Stern Gang martyr. The family changed its surname, Auerbach, to Emanuel in honour of his uncle Manny, who died fighting for the Irgun, labelled by even the World Zionist Congress in the 1940s a terrorist organisation. Emanuel’s middle name (like that of the senior British Foreign Office official, now buried on the Mount of Olives, who secretly furnished the Israeli state with the end-user certificate for the Norwegian heavy water shipment essential for the acquisition of nuclear weapons) is, quite literally, Israel.

    Obama’s notorious AIPAC speech was no mere lip-service.

  2. ‘Israel is obliged to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution.’

    The new Foreign Minister, Hague, has promised to remove provisions in British law that would allow the arrest and trial of those who commit such crimes.

  3. Israel Prime Minister states that Israel will continue to protect country and its people ANYWHERE, ANYTIME and BY ALL MEANS. So much about international laws…

  4. We shouldn’t forget the reasonable Israeli people caught up in this and as appalled as the rest of us:

    “…

    There were even demonstrations inside Israel, where hundreds of protestors flooded the streets of the northern Arab city of Nazareth as Israeli police raised the level of alert across the country and deployed reinforcements.

    …”

    http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=39291

  5. I’ve just come from a good demonstration against Israel’s latest appalling atrocity in Birmingham City Centre. Around 300 people were mobilised (in six hours) to hear speeches and to take part in chants for a “Free, Free, Palestine”. A local Coalition MP spoke, as did various trades unions, Palestinian solidarity activists and an eight-year old Palestinian boy.

    Can I get a quick show of hands on who is planning to contact their elected representatives? For readers in the UK you can do so through writetothem.com. Please *please* do so now. Express your anger and frustration politely and let us know you have done so in one of Craig’s Gaza threads.

  6. And what if the ships had British or American flags Like the Liberty?

    How low will the Con Lib partnership go??

  7. Not a Lawyer

    31 May, 2010 - 7:08 pm

    But can you explain to me why this is not applicable? Best…

    San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea:

    “The San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea was adopted in June 1994 after a series of round tables of naval and legal experts convened by the International Institute of Humanitarian Law. In paragraph 67 it permits belligerents to attack merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States if they “are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture”. Paragraph 146 permits the capture of neutral merchant vessels outside neutral waters if they are engaged in any of the activities referred to in paragraph 67.”

  8. P.S. I agree with Craig, the response by Hague is good — if it is backed up by British warships.

  9. Not a Lawyer

    That applies to a blockade in time of war only. Again, if Israel fomally wishes to declare war, that alters the game. Short of that, it doesn’t help.

  10. Today’s London demonstration:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x272gVis3hI

  11. “Make no mistake. If I knew exactly where Israel was heading and the possible consequences, the Israeli cabinet and military elite were fully aware of it all the way along.”

    Gilad Atzmon

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/israeli-butchery-at-sea-by-gilad-atzmon.html#entry7817603

  12. Not a Lawyer

    31 May, 2010 - 7:25 pm

    May 27th

    “In a news statement issued by Israel’s Foreign Ministry this week, Sarah Weiss Maudi, the ministry’s expert on maritime and humanitarian law, said the maritime blockade was in force “because Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime” in Gaza. Hamas, she continued, “has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel proper with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza by various routes, including the sea.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/28/world/middleeast/28mideast.html

  13. Jon, written to my MP Richard Bacon this morning, asking him to condemn this outrage and have the Israeli ambassador in for questioning about the incident.

    Not a lawyer, the blockade is one sided, not internationally agreed and belligerents cannot claim that cement is a contraband, as paragraph 67 and 146 do not apply.

    This was an unprovoked attack on a Turkish vessel in international waters, an attack on people and goods which had been checked off not to contain weapons of any nature, so no threat is constituted to those who were attacking the boats.

    Any legalistic argument is merely an excuse and part of the prolonging of the stalling of proximity talks.

    Hamas is reputedly speaking to the US and Russia, the Arab league is supporting it as the legitamitely elected Government in Gaza and it is time to talk about retreating from East Jerusalem and the westbank. period

    This outrage will only increase the international boycott of this rogue apartheid regime until it relents to internationally agreed resolutions.

  14. Many thanks for that info.

    I remember you were 100% correct regarding the capture of British sailors

    by the Iranians a couple of years ago. I think that’s when I first came across

    your blog.

  15. Not a Lawyer

    31 May, 2010 - 8:03 pm

    So considering that:

    (1) Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime in Gaza

    AND

    (2) paragraph 67 it permits belligerents to attack merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States if they “are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture.

    According to Mr. Murray’s reasoning, it would seem Israel was acting within its legal rights.

  16. Thanks Ingo :-)

    I have just this minute emailed my Birmingham MP. I will contact Nick Clegg tomorrow to remind him that a sell-out now on traditional Liberal Democrat opposition to Israeli aggression and imperialism will help harden liberal/left support against the coalition. And it would bloody deserve to.

  17. On Irish radio today, the Israeli ambassador to Irelan admitted that the ships were in international waters, but stated that even a suspicion that they might have arms, or materiel, included in their cargo, and that they were heading for Israeli waters, was sufficient justification in international law for interception by Israeli forces.

    Just thought I’d put this defence on the record for future analysis.

  18. Israeli ambassador to Ireland

  19. It’s the level of violence used that’s surprising, alright, it’s not surprising if one is a Palestinian who are constantly on the receiving end of Israeli military agression; but to dish it out to foreigners like this seems odd.

    When the Israeli army began to assassinate foreign peace activists it had an effect, a deterent effect, people thought twice about entering the occupied territories, because the Israelis showed that they could literally get away with murder and western governments would do nothing to hold them accountable.

    But the scale of this massacre is so great and so blatant that one has to question the motives behind it. Attacking a Turkish ship and killing Turks in such large numbers seems unecessarily provocative and has, unsurprisingly caused uproar in Turkey, a country that was once considered an ally of Israel. Turkey isn’t a tiny country like Israel. It’s a large and increasingly powerful state that, after decades in the doldrums is once again asserting itself as a substantial regional power. For Israel to attack Turkey like this seems crazy.

    So why do it? The answer seems to be that the ultra-conservative nationalists inside Israel want to provoke a reaction in the Muslim world and thereby ‘justify’, over the medium term, an Israeli ‘counter-reaction’ leading to a new war in the Middle East.

    Israel believes that a new war is in its strategic interests. That every decade the Arabs need to be taught a very bloody and costly lesson, that they cannot win against Israel and the consequences of resistance are enormous. The Arabs only have one choice, make ‘peace’ on Israel’s terms, or face destruction over and over again, until they learn their lesson and understand that they have ‘lost.’

    So there is no ‘peace’ process, only a de facto surrender process.

    And, in the end, if Israel was to miscalculate whilst teaching a new generation of Arabs their ‘lesson’, they always have their nuclear option to fall back on, the ultimate sanction against those who will not learn the lesson of history. The Sampson option, which, by the way, also includes us, as Israel’s rockets are also targetted at all the major European capitals too. And these people are supposed to be our friends?

  20. yes Craig this international law thing is all very well but as you know it’s there to protect, well people like you and me – you know UK, US citizens and possibly at at a stretch some of them Europeans (more so to the west) not …. them! Not foreign types, all flappy and excitable as they are. I mean what would the world come to?

    No, no Craig (silly man), don’t get too wound up about law in this insignificant incident. I mean the BBC hasn’t been so foolish to mention international law all day, has it!

  21. doug scorgie

    31 May, 2010 - 8:36 pm

    Craig, again your naivety is breathtaking.

    “I think that anybody with any fairness is bound to admit that the statement William Hague came out with is much better than anything on Israel which New Labour ever came out with, especially this bit:”

    “This news underlines the need to lift the restrictions on access to Gaza, in line with UNSCR 1860. The closure is unacceptable and counter-productive. There can be no better response from the international community to this tragedy than to achieve urgently a durable resolution to the Gaza crisis.”

    I have been in corespondance with Mr Hague, prior to the election, about the Israel/Palestine issue. The statement he made today is almost verbatim to what he said to me back then. He is a liar and you are a fool.

  22. not a lawyer,

    If Israel considers an armed conflict exists, then it has no right to complain about rockets launched from the Gaza strip. Yet when it comes to that issue Israel plainly does not accept an armed conflict exists. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

    On top of which, all its prisoners from Gaza would have to be acknowledged as prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention.

    Besides those obvious proofs that Israel does not accept its relationship with Gaza as armed conflict, the UN Security Council has already pronounced against the blockade in UNSCR 1860.

    Sorry, you can’t hide murder in bullshit.

  23. Chris Dooley

    31 May, 2010 - 8:51 pm

    Not A Lawyer…. it’s a good job you are not a lawyer because your reading comprehension is very poor…

    “In paragraph 67 it permits belligerents to attack merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States if they “are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture”. Paragraph 146 permits the capture of neutral merchant vessels outside neutral waters if they are engaged in any of the activities referred to in paragraph 67.”

    What part of ‘outside neutral waters’ do you fail to understand… the whole reason this was an illegal and agressive act was that the vessels were in neutral waters and well within their rights to do as they please

  24. Not a Lawyer

    “So considering that:

    (1) Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime in Gaza …”

    If Hamas is “currently in a state of armed conflict” with Israel you wouldn’t object to Hamas gun men murdering a few Zionists in London or New York.

  25. Craig,

    You are an upstanding and decent person. Almost quaint concepts, small words, but when one looks at most of the swine who are active in public life today, it’s actually an enormous compliment.

    Israel; or rather the gang of corrupt, vicious, bloodthirsty, bastards who are running the country at present, the worst of bad bunch; doesn’t give a fig about international law. They most definitely want to have thir cake and eat it.

    Having friends in Israel is weird. Most of the Israelis I know are deeply, deeply, disturbed by the direction the country is going in and have close to given up and are actively considering leaving before it’s too late. Many of them feel that Zionism has simply gone too far and has created a state that’s becoming fascist, totalitarian, racist and undemocratic. All is not lost, though it’s clear which way the wind is blowing, and it’s an ill-wind for those who question the wisdom and morality of Israel turning into an openly agressive imperialist regime where all opposition is regarded as a form of treason or worse still… terrorism.

  26. The BBC’s pro-Israel stance is on show. They’re now running an article entitled “Where next for under-fire Israel?” (or under-pressure, depending on the link). Er, I believe it was the aid flotilla (and indeed the people of Gaza) who have been under fire/pressure.

    Just grotesque.

    Here’s the link:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10199476.stm

  27. The BBC reported earlier today that there had been at least 10 people killed.

    At 20:06 GMT the BBC were saying it is “at least nine people” killed.

    It has been established for some hours that at least 19 people have been killed.

    Get it down to single figures seems the order from above. By the morning they should have it down to one cut finger.

  28. Something not quite right here:-

    1. 1948 ?” some 700,000 displaced from their homeland.

    2. 1967 ?” Israel wins a war against the Arabs. The 1967 boundary is where international law now recognises a Jewish state.

    3. 1967 – USS Liberty attacked ?” so what ?” the US is an ally.

    4. Post -1967 ?” the “Chosen people” decide that God gave ‘em more land, so see no harm in building settlements beyond the 1967 borders.

    5. 2007 Hamas is democratically elected to power ?” so ?” Israel decides who ought democratically to be elected and continues blockcade and occupation of Gaza.

    6. 2010 ?” Peace flotilla attacked ?” so what ?” the US is still an ally.

    Cf. A question: Had Iran attacked a pro-Israeli peace flotilla, in similar fashion ?” what then?

    Guess we live in a fair and just world!

  29. Have a look at some of the public’s comments on the BBC.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/was_israel_right_to_board_the.html

  30. Clark

    That’s getting a BBC page not found message – the page may have been amended removed or deleted

  31. The Rulers of Turkey have no power.

    They are just window dressing to give the impression of democracy.

    The people who rule Turkey are its Zionist army, and they only answer to Israel.

    The Turkish president, priminister and parliment haven’t even got the authority to do something as simple as relaxing the headscarf ban, the wives of the priminister and president aren’t even allowed to enter millitry bases. Because it is the Millitry that gives the orders and every turk knows it.

    The Turkey will do nothing to Israel for attacking a Turkish ship considered Turkish territory, because Turkey is nothing.

    It is a country that has no power over what women are allowed to wear in Turkey so what power do you think this castrated nation has in getting justice for its murdered citizens?

    The Turks need to remove the Zionist millitry rulers that occupied Turkey after capturing it just after ww1.

    They need to bring back the Khilafah which was abolished by the unelected millitry that captured Turkey and reunify with the wider middle east. Then it needs to reincorperate all of Palestine in to its territory.

  32. I am pretty damn sure that in case Israel had requested (non-agressive way) to enter the ship and check the cargo, due to the character of the shipment and publicity this voyage has, they would have been admitted access to her. We would not face the tragedy like today..

  33. Yevgeny Satanovskiy from Institute of Middle-East studies in Russia states that this incident was planned personally by the Prime minister of Turkey with participation of the Turkish secret service in order to break diplomatic relationships with Israel.

    Russian Business Consulting: http://top.rbc.ru/politics/31/05/2010/414378.shtml

  34. I am an American and happened to run across the “live action” on the dailykos.com blog in the middle of the night. Fortunately, many Americans understand the truth about the wholesale buyout of the American government to AIPAC and the pro-Israeli powers that be.

    However, we have not as yet been able to force our politicians to close the door to their money and their total ownership of both the House and Senate and the BIG White House that is currently occupied by a man who won a Nobel Peace Prize for no reason other than his promise for change and his brilliant smile.

    What are we to do? I wrote my congresswoman and copied in the Israeli embassy in DC. I begged and then demanded her to take action. I’m sitting here several hours later with no hope that this situation will ever change, and definitely not in my lifetime.

    Why is this impossible problem so defiant? Victimhood has gone a long way for the Israelis; it got them a homeland and it appears that it won’t be long before they bully their way through the door of no return for the families of those original landowners.

    What’s wrong with that kind of thinking, or is it just me?

    Thanks for offering thoughts that make sense to people with rationale minds.

  35. Sami

    So what did the turks do?

    Force the ZIonists on to the helicopters and boats, and then pulled teh trigger for them?

    Or did the 6 turks who were killed kill themselves, after shooting all the other dead and wounded, just to make Israel look bad?

    Israel is a gangster republic,

  36. Just encase you don’t know Israel is the one that had planned this for a long time. It had even put pressure on cyprus to prevent more westerns from joining.

    Dead Turks don’t matter, they are just dark skinned Muslims whose deaths can be ignored. But it is harder to explain away the deaths of white faced Christians.

  37. All good stuff up to “Israel is obliged to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution”.

    Am I right in thinking that would only be true assuming there was a suitable extradition treaty between Israel and Turkey? If there wasn’t, is there any other reason why such a handover would be required in international law?

  38. Plenty of bold words. So long as Washington endorses Israel unconditionally in its programme of butchery there is so little we can do.

    Shame on Obama – Nobel Peace Prize Winner. I believe Washington gave this the green light and is equally guilty. The six-ship flotilla was carrying 10,000 tons of humanitarian aid along with 600 people, all civilians, which included 1976 Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire of Northern Ireland, European legislators and an elderly Holocaust survivor, Hedy Epstein, 85.

    Obama is a charlatan and puts politics before people.

  39. Ed,

    If they were civilians Israel would not hand them over without an extradition treaty. Mind you Turkey and Israel were very close and there might well be an extradition treaty. But there are provisions specific to military personnel, which I’ll dig out in the morning.

  40. Nice remarks about your speech from Lenin’s Tomb:

    http://leninology.blogspot.com/2010/05/gaza-freedom-protest-pictures.html

    Gaza Freedom Protest pictures posted by lenin

    Some pictures from today’s protest, which – given that people only have this morning to organise over it – was extraordinarily large, and raucous. There weren’t very many coppers about, which is probably more due to its being a bank holiday than to the ConDem government’s concern for civil liberties. I have to apologise for having failed to get a picture of the only Liberal Democrat I saw at the protest, that being Craig Murray. But he did deliver an incredible speech, second only to Lowkey in the reception he received from the crowd.

  41. If nothing is done this time then the Israelis will feel even further emboldened in their lawlessness.

    I wrote that the last time the Israelis murdered and slaughtered as they pleased.

    There comes a time when decent people just have to stand up against the total immorality of the Israeli state, and supporters of that immorality in the BBC.

    It’s about time the British people took a class action against the BBC, for its continual refusal to represent the views of those who fund it.

  42. Yes, I agree. Surely there must be some law which can safeguard us from having to pay for propaganda.

  43. Craig,

    sorry, I’ve been otherwise engaged. The page I linked to seems OK from here; anyone else tried it? The comments there were overwhelmingly condemnatory of the Israeli actions. The few pro-Israel remarks kept coming from the same names.

  44. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/was_israel_right_to_board_the.html

    This link appears fine for me too. Maybe Craig missed a character off.

  45. nevergiveup

    1 Jun, 2010 - 1:00 am

    Watching some of the new Israeli footage of the boardings on TV I cannot help but think some of it looks stage managed. I may be wrong but…

  46. Thanks Craig for your post. Few replies to people who claimed Israel acted legally:

    I. Under San Remo Manual, a prerequisite for the capture and search of neutral vessel is that it is breaching a blockade. But under the Manual the Blockade has to be effective, a fact that is highly contested! It is also quite contested if Israel’s blockade on Gaza is lawful (see Gisha.org)

    II. Rules of precaution and proportionality should be respected at all times and capturing the vessel should make an effective contribution to Israel’s military actions.

    III. Israel has a documented record of defying the laws of war not to mention its pathetic consistency to deny the applicability of IHL and GCs to its actions in the West Bank and Gaza, so invoking the Sane Rimo Manual seems to me at best a cheap act of cherry picking!

  47. @ writerman.

    “the gang of corrupt, vicious, bloodthirsty, bastards who are running the country at present” – Is that sustainable? Has there ever been a non-Zionist, non-crime commiting administration of this contemporary and fraudulent inversion of the glorious Israel of old. You dabble with imperialist apologetics “Oh that was just a rogue element at work. We’re not really like that – honest”

    “Many of them feel that Zionism has simply gone too far” Zionism has ALWAYS gone too far. You know little about Zinism if you think otherwise. Here’s some help: http://giwersworld.org/israel/terrorists.phtml

    “a state that’s becoming fascist, totalitarian, racist and undemocratic.” – /becoming/ writerman?

  48. “Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists on the ships. In that case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey”

    Turkey is a member of NATO. Can you comment on the implications of this?

  49. NOT a LAWYER

    Hamass weapons cant begin to compare with Israels, which the US smuggles in on secret cargo planes…

    also the flotilla was not HAMAS…so your reasoning with your 67 paragraph is as bogus as is your humanity

  50. Well, it seems, according to Sky this morning that film has been released showing the commando unit bieng violently attacked with one of thier members bieng thrown overboard. Seems like they had no option but to defend themselves.

  51. craig, although I live in turkey and you don’t, you seem to more alot about turkey’s history and current situation then me. I’m sorry but calling turkey’s military zionist without giving ANY reason behind it is just bullshit. turkey had problems with the amount of power the amry holds over the government that is true, but elected government holds no power? that is a little bold isn’t it? did you know most of people in turkey sees turkish army as the protection against islamic regime, and the islamic biased government right now is constantly having conflict with the army. if they would have no power why would there be any conflict?

    and the scarf problem.. it has nothing to do with military or anything. its just the turkish citizens who are trying to find a solution about the problems between 99% muslim population and a secular government. this does not show the weakness of a government or democracy rather than its the strength of different opinions clashing what makes democracy work.

    Turkey is not ottoman empire as you clearly mix with. Turkey is a muslim populated country which is on the way of the membership in EU for a long time. your racist words about muslims clearly shows your lack of knowledge about my country. i hope you get rid of your hatred for muslim people soon or I will really feel sorry for you.

    And calling turkish citizens dark skinned muslims whos death is not important is just plain racism.

  52. My post was a reply to Arsalan not Craig sorry i mixed poster names.

  53. It is because America and it’s Jewish lawyers had made torture legal only to keep top U.S. officials from being sent to prison that doesn’t mean more might makes it right.

    America’s war monster should be locked up by now, proving the entire forward way of thinking is heading backward.

    This how they plan to start the New World Order? God help us.

    One thing. I see how the true patriotic spirit of America’s Middle Class are going to take the country away from the hands of greed.

    If America decides to join-in and rebel against it’s insane and parasitic virtual’s, for sure the world will close it’s eye’s and thank God for helping America find it’s true self.

  54. ALSO not a lawyer, or a zionist

    1 Jun, 2010 - 8:53 am

    Not a lawyer:

    An armed conflict with Hamas and a declared war with anyone, are two entirely different animals. And this flotilla was not Hamas. But regardless of that, I followed this situation live last night, and before Israel’s attack on the flotilla, they had chosen to turn away from Gaza so that nothing could be misinterpreted during the night. They were going to turn back to Gaza after sun up. Satellite photos show that the flotilla had turned away after dark. Israel’s attack on a Turkish ship in international waters is indefensable.

  55. Larry from St. Louis

    1 Jun, 2010 - 9:22 am

    “It is because America and it’s Jewish lawyers had made torture legal”

    Someone should tell John Yoo that he’s actually a Joo.

  56. Frazer

    “Well, it seems, according to Sky this morning that film has been released showing the commando unit bieng violently attacked with one of thier members bieng thrown overboard. Seems like they had no option but to defend themselves.”

    Or not get on the ship in the first place. Why did the IDF lower a small number of armed troops onto a ship full of activists at 4.30am? Were they expecting to hear a few verses of a John Lennon song ?

    If I was an Israeli I’d be wondering why the military is so heavy on weaponry and so light on brains.

  57. “And calling turkish citizens dark skinned muslims whos death is not important is just plain racism.”

    I see someone who never heard of sarcasm…

  58. The jews can do whatever they want.

  59. Volkan

    Firstly, my hatred isn’t against Muslims, it is against Turkey’s Zionist Military.

    Secondly when the president of a country, the priminister of a country, most of the parliament and almost all of the countries population agree on something, and their will is vetoed by the military, that doesn’t indicate democracy, that doesn’t indicate difference of opinion that indicates military dictatorship.

    Turks do not see the Zionist military as guardians of secularism against themselves, and the people they elect. If they wanted the military to decide on which laws the people they elect are allowed to make, they would have elected the military and not parliament.

    Yes Turkey isn’t the Ottoman empire, that is key to way it is such a rubbish country now, a country begging unsuccessfully to join the European Union.

    The European Union has made it clear time and time again, they don’t want you. It is time Turkey takes the hint and has some self respect and reforms its own Union with the countries it was once part of.

    It needs to reunite in to the Khilafah.

  60. What you are all missing is WHY the Israel Government risked world condemnation.

    HERE is the TRUE reason why.

    First, the British Government know exactly WHY,including the Conservatives, way back to Margaret Thatchers Government, others include Jonathan Aitken, Tony Blair, Major,Alistair, Gordon Brown.

    This started back when the Government change of South Africa,was to be implemented.

    Prior to the handover in 1994, South Africa and Israel had collaborated to construct 10 Nuclear Bombs.

    1 of the 10 was tested South of South Africa

    The New Black ANC Government were NEVER going to be allowed to keep these Nuclear Weapons, so arrangements were made to transport the remaining 9 out of RSA.

    The 9 were packaged in to 20 foot ISO Containers.

    6 were transported to the USA for De-Commissioning, the fissile material returned to RSA to create a Bullshit story that the New ANC Government would denounce their Nuclear weapon Technology for the World to blow a trumpet.

    So, the other 3, well, they were purchased by THATCHERS Government, headed by the muppets, Aitken, Thatchers Dithering Son, Sir Mark and a whole Cabal of Criminal Weapons dealers the main contact JOHN BREDENKAMP, a real wheeler dealer, operating with the likes of MOHAMED ADNAN KHASHOGGI.

    For the Ist GULF WAR.

    The Thatcher Government took from the State Coffers over £80 Million to purchase these 3 Nukes,When the deal was done, the transfer was completed and the 3 Nukes transported and laid over in OMAN.

    The reason WHY.

    A Safety Threat to SADDAM

    He was warned.

    If he used Chemical or Gas against the Coalition Forces in the Retake of Kuwait, the weapons WOULD be used.

    WHO was the MOD Scientist responsible for the oversight of this Operation.

    Well, non other than, Dr DAVID KELLY of course.

    Well, we all know everything went to plan.

    Well, not really.

    Not for Dr DAVID KELLY, we now know that.

    That came later to COVER all this up.

    For a Start, Some people from the Labour Government spotted a few major COVERT Conservative Government Funding figures.

    Like Margaret Beckett.

    Re Thatchers Bag man LORD ALISTAIR MCALPINE.

    So.

    WHO donated and WHERE did £17.8 Million come from, for the Conservative Government 1992 re-election Campaign.

    Well, the TRUTH, it was a CRIMINAL Overcharge in the Purchase of the 3 RSA Nukes, silted into the Conservative Coffers.

    The END.

    Well, again, only the Start.

    Covert Weapons Dealer,Thief and Scum Bucket JOHN BREDENKAMP did another slight of Hand, he stole the 3 Nukes back and placed them on the OPEN MARKET

    The WHOLE CRIMINAL Money laundering operation disclosed in the Parliamentary HANSARD Report 22nd JUNE 1993 from col 197.

    So, HOW were our OPEN, HONEST Politicians going to cover-up this monumental stuff-up.

    As they always do,

    6 Words

    “IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY”

    So, WHAT happened to the 3 rough NUKES.

    1 was exploded by NORTH KOREA

    That leaves 2.

    And THAT My friends is WHY the ISRAELI Government has taken these drastic Military actions, to ensure anything coming into GAZA is FULLY INSPECTED.

    I mean, HOW good will this seem, a NUKE Bomb constructed by ISRAELI Scientists in a Joint Venture with South Africa, Smuggled into ISRAEL and Detonated.

    How do I know, well, from someone DIRECTLY involved in the Operations involving the 3 Purchased NUKES.

    IF YOU DOUBT, CHECK THE

    HANSARD REPORT

    22 JUNE 1993

    From Col 197

    The WORLDS PROOF is right there, in a GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT.

    We are being Governed by a bunch of Pathetic, Lying Thieving,dangerous, IDIOTS.

  61. Walter Zwick

    1 Jun, 2010 - 11:03 am

    There is one simple way to show Europe’s and the worlds contempt for the Israelli attack. UN or EU authority should be obtained for removing the blockade using European naval dorces. A new flotilla should be assembled to deliver even more supplies to Gaza and that flotilla should be accompaigned by British, French, and other EU states warships. The flotgilla should be accompagnied into Gaza’s ports and, if necessary, EU marines should supervise the unloading. A permanent garrison should then remain in Gaza ensuring free access to all shipping and further ensuring that offensive weapons are not imported.

  62. I believe that Arsalan is referring to the donmeh, the sabbatean jews that collapsed the Ottoman Empire and took control after that. Mustafa Kemal was the leader of that clique.

    israel is a nation built on the back of terrorism, so this is not out of character for them.

    Finally, they may be going to choke on the piece they bit off that they can’t swallow.

    The khazar war criminals in tel aviv must know that their time is almost imminent.

    Even though my politics is not that of the activists, to them I say good work, at least some have the courage to face the khazar beast.

    RIP the dead and get well soon to those injured.

  63. Thanks Gordon for this unusual insight into the ‘lost uranium diaries’, no wonder everyone is trying to open up Israels nuclear books, they are full of hidden facts.

    Who knows what influence Israel had in Indias nuclear development vis avis pakistans, this story still needs telling.

    Also thank you Walter for your suggestion of a protected flotilla and EU base in Gaza, something that should have happened with this flotilla.

    Such protection is long overdue, a protection force from more than one country, but under a single command, as not to take up too much decision time when it comes to the crunch of protection, would make Israel realise that they cannot carry on jumping up and down on international resolution and people, that they are not above the rest of us and that they cannot wheel and deal in the middle east as they see fit.

    Hurry Up EU, the MV Rachel Corrie is on its way to Gaza tommorrow.

  64. Albert M. Bankment

    1 Jun, 2010 - 11:39 am

    I could well be wrong, but I don’t believe that Israel has signed the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. That would be their (scurrilous) get-out.

  65. Hague’s words are for UK public consumption only. He is a self confessed Zionist, from his own mouth he declared this. And what about Cameron, he won’t be turning his back on Israel no matter what. Again, from his own mouth.

    Wake up people, their is something seriously wrong with our politics and media, I think it’s called ‘the Israeli lobby’.

  66. As if any western politicians gives a damn about the Palestinians. Everything they utter it to appease their electorate and create the impression that they have moral fibre. Almost everyone of them has been bank-rolled into power by Zionists.

  67. Mark, Western politicians make no secret of the fact they believe the lives of brown people are worthless than the lives of cockroaches.

    The attack on this ship contain citizens of many western nations proves once and for all that western politicians couldn’t give a damn about their own populations.

    They obey their Zionist bankers and no one but their Zionist bankers.

  68. Kathleen Fox-Bennett

    1 Jun, 2010 - 1:06 pm

    I supported President Obama and planned on being extremely proactive for the next election. I cannot do this unless he has the courage and conviction to make a loud and clear statement about the terrorism of the zionists in israel and around the world. The only way we will be universally respected is to stop supporting terrorists and stop allowing “THE TAIL TO WAG THE DOG”

  69. Turkey is going to provide military escort for the next flotilla.

    If Turkey receives fire form Israel, and Turkey invokes Article 5 of the NATO charter, then what?

    If NATO fails to act doesn’t NATO dissolve over a lack of trust/confidence?

  70. @ Flek,

    Shouldn’t the Security Council be acting decisively at this stage?

    But – it won’t will it. And even if a majority voted one way, the US would veto. So much for the rule of international law, rights and justice, when it comes to Israel.

  71. I once read Heddy Epstein’s account of how she was strip-searched at Tel Aviv airport by a young female security official.

    I was so appalled by the indignity this venerable old lady had suffered that I sent her an email wishing her every success for her then forthcoming solidarity visit to Palestine.

    For Heddy,now well into her eighties has never given up on her fight for justice for the Palestinians.Notwithstanding the brutalizing and humiliating experience through which she was put at Tel Aviv Heddy has been back to the occupied territories again and again.

    She stands as living testament to the tenacious grip on morality most Jews have retained notwithstanding the ongoing plan to degrade them as a people by the manipulative elites that created Israel and sustain its government today.

    Even though at the time I wrote to her she must have been busy packing and saying goodbye to her family she still did me the immense courtesy of writing a reply thanking me for my support.

    Would that my support constituted more.If I was as brave as Heddy and the hundreds on that flotilla I would probably be either dead or rotting in an Israeli gaol by now.

    God speed to Heddy and all of them.We owe them more than we can ever repay.

  72. flek

    Turkey wont do shit.

    Because the rulers of Turkey don’t give a shit about Palestinians or their own population.

    The Rulers of Turkey are not the elected, they are just cardboard cutouts that the military cut and past to give the false impression of democracy.

    Turkey is ruled by its Army, its pro Israel Army.

    And they will never do anything against ISrael.

    Article 5 of the NATO charter has already been breached. That ship was Turkish teritory, and most if not all the people killed were Turkish citizens. So it has happened, and Nato doesn’t give a shit. Because Israel is above Nato, just as it is above the UN and international law.

    We are slaves and they are the master race.

    Peoples and nations that do not accept them as the chosen people, the master race are delt with by Nato, the UN and all of its members.

  73. THE COMMANDER’S HANDBOOK

    ON THE LAW OF NAVAL

    OPERATIONS

    USA

    http://www.lawofwar.org/naval_warfare_publication_N-114M.htm

    7.7.4 Breach and Attempted Breach of Blockade. Breach of blockade is the passage of a vessel or aircraft through a blockade without special entry or exit authorization from the blockading belligerent. Attempted breach of blockade occurs from the time a vessel or aircraft leaves a port or airfield with the intention of evading the blockade, and for vessels exiting the blockaded area, continues until the voyage is completed. Knowledge of the existence of the blockade is essential to the offenses of breach of blockade and attempted breach of blockade. Knowledge may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification provided to affected governments. It is immaterial that the vessel or aircraft is at the time of interception bound for neutral territory, if its ultimate destination is the blockaded area. There is a presumption of attempted breach of blockade where vessels or aircraft are bound for a neutral port or airfield serving as a point of transit to the blockaded area. Capture of such vessels is discussed in paragraph 7.10.

  74. Well, this could also apply.

    San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea

    102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:

    (a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or

    (b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.

    103. If the civilian population of the blockaded territory is inadequately provided with food and other objects essential for its survival, the blockading party must provide for free passage of such foodstuffs and other essential supplies, subject to:

    (a) the right to prescribe the technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted; and

    (b) the condition that the distribution of such supplies shall be made under the local supervision of a Protecting Power or a humanitarian organization which offers guarantees of impartiality, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross.

  75. Sorry, the last unsigned post is mine.

  76. OSLO AGREEMENTS

    Gaza-Jericho Agremeent Annex I

    4 May 1994

    http://www.mfa.gov. il/MFA/Peace+ Process/Guide+ to+the+Peace+ Process/Gaza- Jericho+Agremeen t+Annex+I. htm…

    Article XI

    Security Along the Coastline and in the Sea of Gaza

    1. Maritime Activity Zones

    b. General Rules of the Maritime Activity Zones

    4. As part of Israel’s responsibilities for safety and security within the

    three Maritime Activity Zones, Israel Navy vessels may sail throughout these

    zones, as necessary and without limitations, and may take any measures

    necessary against vessels suspected of being used for terrorist activities

    or for smuggling arms, ammunition, drugs, goods, or for any other illegal

    activity. The Palestinian Police will be notified of such actions, and the

    ensuing procedures will be coordinated through the Maritime Coordination and

    Cooperation Center.

  77. I can’t imagine any of those zones stretching into international waters.

    Also, I find it hard to reconcile Israel at the same time being in armed conflict with the Hamas regime, AND implementing Oslo accords.

    Which one is it? :)

  78. On the San Remo Manual argument, besides Craig’s fine argument that it only applies at a time of war involving armed conflict at sea, the Manual requires that:

    93. A blockade shall be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral States.

    94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration, location, and extent of the blockade …

    Has Israel declared and notified all Neutral States formally of such a blockade? And then justified the blockade against:

    102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if: … (b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade

    I doubt it. Just some Mark Regev spin and confusion being deployed I expect.

  79. @Gordon, @Arasian

    Gentlemen: Your points would be better made if you dispensed with the bitter name calling and inflections.

    Now, all rest assured that MI-6 and the CIA both knew what would be happening. Therefore, it must stand to reason that the US and GB have some plan for public explanation. It is all really just a game you know? Reminds me of LeCarre’s “The Looking Glass War”.

  80. If I understand the text quoted below, there’s another slight glitch with the San Remo manual.

    http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/57JMST

    The Manual is not a binding document. In view of the extent of uncertainty in the law, the experts decided that it was premature to embark on diplomatic negotiations to draft a treaty on the subject.

    But I guess it serves nicely for selectively taking parts of it out of context for Israeli spin purposes.

  81. The legal position should come from the real situation. And it’s this:.

    1. What relevant is the national tradition rooted in history. And this tradition is that Jews NEVER PRODUCED. No poetry, architecture, geometry, wheat, olives, chairs, pottery. Nothing can be found in the places where they lived, except excrements. Jews had no culture. They only accumulated money and studied religion.

    2. Jews in the 19-20 centuries produced two CULTS. One was communism that killed 100 millions of people. The other they called zionism.

    3. Israel is a failed state internally, it is a CULT that has NO BORDERS, no ideological borders and no territorial borders. Therefore, THEY WILL NEVER STOP. No amount of genocide or the amount of land will EVER be enough. Remember – their goal was never to produce anything, only accumulation of stolen property, and, therefore, their appetite is not limited by their own labour. It can only be limited from outside.

    4. Regarding the international situation: Israel will never give up because it will never be satisfied with what they have. They openly threaten Europe with nuclear weapons, they said that most of the European capitals are within the reach of these weapons, they said many other similar things. This is a CULT that will never give up. Therefore, all talks about bringing them to justice, etc. are ridiculous. They will set the world on fire rather than submit to any law. Again – this is CULT. They must be destroyed COMPLETELY BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE. This is the best and the most humanitarian solution. There is no other.

  82. I don’t think international law is worth the paper it is written on.

    The Nations that produced it are the same ones that refuse to abide by it.

    Their is only one fact and one solution.

    The fact is Israel is an evil state ruled by an evil ideology.

    And the solution is this state must end, the land must be reabsorbed in to the wider middle east.

    To do this the wider Middle east must be reunified.

    The Khilafah must be recreated.

  83. The first offical act of the supreme soviet in 1917 was to declare”anti-semitism” a capital offence. Then they moved on to destoying churhes and killing priests, eventually killing 60 million christians. Synagogues were left untoched.

    ‘Wet deeds” are second nature to these folks. Palestinians are just one of a long line of victims.

    Viva Palestina!

  84. Michael Pyshnov

    “What relevant is the national tradition rooted in history. And this tradition is that Jews NEVER PRODUCED. No poetry, architecture, geometry, wheat, olives, chairs, pottery. Nothing can be found in the places where they lived, except excrements. Jews had no culture. They only accumulated money and studied religion.”

    Absolute racist bollocks. Jews have made major contributions in all fields of human development. Find somewhere else to post your recycled Nazi theories.

    Arsalan

    Just as much crap. A retreat into fifteenth century theocratic government is an appalling prospect.

  85. R.E. San Remo:

    The law does not state – if you go read it – that they have to be carrying contraband. It states (clearly) that the ship can be EITHER carrying contraband OR about to breach a blockage. It was known from the time it left port that they meant to run a military blockage.

    As for the war – it was declared in 2007 – if you check your facts. Recognized or not, the leaders of the two groups (Palestinian/Israeli) consider themselves to be at war. I doubt either side gives a dead rat’s furry hind end what the rest of us ‘recognize’. They never have before – why start now.

    Hence, a military blockage, an obvious and premeditated attempt to breach it (no matter with what!), a refusal to turn aside means that *technically* it was a legal boarding.

    That is *assuredly* not to say that I approve of what happened. And I daresay the Israelis (the vast majority of them, likely including some of the boarders) don’t approve either.

    If you wish to see what (apparently) happened, as filmed by an Islamic news crew, go to YouTube and search “Miva Marmara IDF” and watch the video. Ascertain its validity for yourself.

  86. Seriously, what did these people expect… that the Israelis were going to hand out flowers and candy? They could have docked at an Israeli port and had their cargo inspected… instead they chose to run a naval blockade… you play with fire and you’ll get burnt… no sympathy here…

  87. After reading this post, I went looking for the relevant articles of international law myself. I am puzzled by the following – according to various articles in international law on occupation and blockades, preventing humanitarian aid vessels access to the blockaded territory is in and of itself illegal. Israel is entitled to search for weapons and munitions but is supposed to let ships like this flotilla through its blockade. So why is this not used as an argument at all? Where am I going wrong here?

    Also found two more articles on sea blockades (London Declaration Concerning the Laws of Naval War of 1909):

    Art. 17. “Neutral vessels may not be captured for breach of blockade except within the area of operations of the warships detailed to render the blockade effective.”

    Israel declared an maritime exclusion zone of twenty nautical miles, no more, so clearly no rightful reason even to ask to inspect the ships. Why did they not wait?

    Art. 19. “Whatever may be the ulterior destination of a vessel or of her cargo, she cannot be captured for breach of blockade, if, at the moment, she is on her way to a non-blockaded port.”

    According to some statements I read today, all captains had turned their ships away from Gaza for the night, and satellite images are claimed to show that to be the case when the Israelis attacked.

    Has this convention been superceded by the San Remo Manual or do they both apply?

  88. Israel has an active fifth column all over the world, and controls nearly all mass media through this fifth column. Hell they even control the US Government. Just look at who Obama’s main minders… er, advisers are. No sanction on Israel can happen without dealing with this fact. We are dealing with the most massive organized crime gang in recorded history.

  89. Mae,

    The fundamental answer is that both have been subsumed and replaced by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, designed as the comprehensive codification (at several hundred pages long) of maritime law and seventy years more up to date than either. UNLOSC is one of a tiny number of international treaties so universally ratified as to be regarded as customary international law and this binding on everyone, whether they ratifies or not.

  90. Thanks Craig. A few hundred pages, eh? I’ll go and have fun with it then, after all, one never knows when one might need it again…

  91. Larry from St. Louis

    2 Jun, 2010 - 12:41 am

    “Israel has an active fifth column all over the world, and controls nearly all mass media through this fifth column. Hell they even control the US Government. Just look at who Obama’s main minders… er, advisers are. No sanction on Israel can happen without dealing with this fact. We are dealing with the most massive organized crime gang in recorded history.”

    I just want to repeat this as one of the comments that Craig Murray WILL NOT delete.

  92. Jules (7:29pm) said: Seriously, what did these people expect..

    We know what they expected. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk&feature=player_embedded shows them ready for “martyrdom” and taunting Jews with the memory of the Khaybar massacre. They came prepared and spoiling for a fight, which the Israelis clearly didn’t. It’s dreadful the amount of encouragement that supporters of the genocidal Hamas are getting from politicians. It only encourages the thugs who vandalised the BBC offices in Manchester and threaten those of reasoned and moderate views.

  93. Craig for you maybe, but it isn’t your choice to make.

    The British were the ones who carved up the middle east in to the mess it is now.

    So Craig you keep your democracy, and once it starts working here, then and only then start preaching to the world about how other peoples systems wont work.

  94. “It only encourages the thugs who vandalised the BBC offices in Manchester and threaten those of reasoned and moderate views.”

    You cant ‘reason and moderate’ away the fact that the IDF boarded a civilian aid/protest boat at 4:30 in the morning and shot about 50 people armed who dared to resist them with ‘big knives’ and sticks!

    Well, ‘reasonable’ ‘moderate’ people cant anyway.

  95. O, of course, some Jews made great contributions to the culture and our civilization. There is nothing wrong with the Jewish brain, well, once it becomes freed from the constrains of Jewish traditions. Heine, for example, declared himself to be an Ellin, not a Jew. Others who loved European culture and contributed to it, also tried to distance themselves from the Jewish Faith and the way of life. Such was the 19-th century Jewish emancipation movement, with salons etc. All that came to an end when masses of half-educated Jews followed Marx who said that only communism will emancipate Jews. Indeed, communism brought them to power: over 70% of the first Russian revolutionary government were Jews. Yet, Jews who seek power as a mob end badly.

  96. Michael Pyshnov, the information in your post of 453pm 1st June 2010 is inaccurate and untrue.

    The focus here needs to be on the longstanding and contuining acts of illegality and oppression undertaken by the Israeli state and its backers, largely in the USA.

    Any attempt to divert the central dynamic of this discourse towards visceral Anti-Jewish fantasies must be resisted.

    I would like to remind you and everyone that it is European Anti-Semitism that has led to this horrible mess in the Levant. The Zionists model themselves on European Anti-Semites. Both ideologies are racist and act as facilitators for the state of Israel to behave as it wishes. The world does not need either of these conjoined ideologies.

  97. Bhutros Bhutros Gali

    2 Jun, 2010 - 1:22 pm

    Neither israel or Turkey are signatories to the Law of the Sea.

    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/Israel+facing+legal+action+over+raid/3100604/story.html

  98. Eric Yendall

    2 Jun, 2010 - 2:10 pm

    Turkey should repeat the aid flotilla, this time protected by naval warships and aircraft from Europe and all other civilised countries that wants to show their disgust of Israel’s actions.

  99. Suhayl Saadi, I agree with you on the point of what has to be done, but unfortunately you misunderstood me. I fully agree that “Any attempt to divert the central dynamic of this discourse towards visceral Anti-Jewish fantasies must be resisted.” But I have not done this, nor contemplated. You have to read Jewish history (say, by Dubnov) to understand that Jewish ghetto traditions and way of life have a lot to do with current events. I lived in Israel for 4 1/2 years and spoke Hebrew. I am Jewish. I am far from being anti-Semitic. I suffered from anti-Semitism. You are wrong in your judgement.

    Currently, Jews insist on Jewish exclusivity. Understanding the roots of it should help. This will give you the correct picture of the criminals, their motivation and will show you why it is completely impossible to talk to them, to persuade, to negotiate peace. They are there to rob, burglarize, kill and profit from the aid given to Israel. Otherwise, they would not be there.

    The correct solution to zionism (which of course was lost as a possibility long time ago) would be to allow Jews, religious Jews, to settle in Palestine in some numbers. Jews should have NEVER EVER been given a state and the army. Einstein, in 1948, called them fascists and warned against giving them any support.

    The Israeli population is now at such stage that their savagery is far surpassing that of the nazis: overwhelming majority of Israelis are willing and sadistic participants. This was not the case even with nazis. The belief in racial exclusivity is also much, much stronger. The fear of being some day held responsible for the crimes committed is much stronger also. They quite intentionally brought themselves to the point of no return… In a word, this is a terminal state of a CULT that must be destroyed completely before it’s too late for the rest of humanity.

  100. “Turkey should repeat the aid flotilla, this time protected by naval warships and aircraft from Europe ”

    Hah, do you really think that eurowussies can do something more than draw conclusions? There were genocide going on in Europe at 90’s and all they managed to do was cry for peace and talks.

  101. Thanks, Michael Pyshnov, I’m sorry I misunderstood you. I realise now that you render a very valid (as it were) insider’s view based on experience and knowledge. Thanks for elaborating – that did help me to understand where your points were coming from. I agree with Albert Einstein!

  102. butros

    Israel is not a signatory of the San Remo Convention either, but it doesn’t stop them quoting it. The Law of the Sea is customary international law whether you sign it or not.

  103. Interesting perspective. I disagree in part however, in that the soldiers acted in self defense. What is Turkish law in regards to self defense? These “activists” came after them with knives, axes and flash bombs. They did not attack for the sake of attacking, they boarded the ship to seize the cargo for inspection, and the activists initiated conflict.

  104. ‘Notoriously Conservative’, not according to the Israeli MP who was on the boat.

  105. Craig, re: The Legal Position on the Israeli Attack – you really must have a look at the new briefing on the Conservative Friends of Israel website: http://www2.cfoi.co.uk/Briefings/Other/

    The level of bias is sickening.

    Some Quotes:

  106. Craig Murray; It’s a very poor judicial jugdment. Any state has the right to defend itself even in international water. The Israeli-Egyptian sea blockade is legal by the international law. According international law Embargoes legally can be imposed in wartime and enforced in international waters but not in the waters of third parties. The embargo placer is authorized to detain civilian ships trying to break the embargo. If the ships resist by force, the raiding party is entitled to defend itself by force.

  107. Eric Yendall; Youre Anti semitic and liar. You are not Jewish but sure some Muslim desguized as Jewish Israeli. Typical Falsetinian ProPALganda warfare of Anti Semite lunatics.

  108. Jalal Mahfuz

    3 Jun, 2010 - 12:55 am

    sandcrab ; You got hard balls. You are spreading typical lies. You blow job the old Anti Semitic fairy tale of how Jews “who seek power as a mob end badly” and ‘control the world’, While the greedy imperialistic Britain conquered almost half of the “new world” and enslaved their citizens to be their servants and confiscated all the rich national resources and mineral. Don’t forget historical facts at one hand and don’t deal with you historical forgery on the other!

    By the way, Jews has nothing to do with communism and that political idea stand in contrary to Judaism and opposing the Jews belief, nature and values. The few Jews that dealt with communism abandoned Judaism, as Marx did.

  109. chris haynes

    3 Jun, 2010 - 1:54 am

    As Sarah Palin pointed out…….by this legal reasoning the Union blockade of the Confederacy was illegal, as was the Union seizure of English ships on the high seas for carrying contraband such as shoes and medicine.

    Amazing how these Eurpean know-it-alls know nothing of history, law, or even how to have enough children.

  110. Graig…Judging by some of the posts you appear to have an army of Israeli/Zionists trying to shoot you down at every opportunity. Their tone is typical of their attitude, convinced as they are that they can do no wrong and everybody else in the world is an idiot. If they were really smart they wouldn’t be so condescending and insulting not to say dismissive of your point of view. Having been in Her Majesties employ and charged with responsibilities requiring a certain knowledge and a level head, clearly it is they that are the “silly’ “naive”, not to say, very, very stupid idiots they claim you to be. Take no notice and I shall wait for the barrage of Jewish derision that normally comes when criticising those extremely nasty people.

  111. Looks like the Israelis did a pretty bad thing.

    For Americans, the most important thing is to get these people out of our government and to criminalize the operations of Israel’s agents of influence in the US. First and foremost AIPAC of course, but also including a few dozen Senators and Congressmen. Israel has made itself a player in US domestic politics, and it’s long past time that we made Israel an issue in every campaign in this country.

  112. As I understand it, if the blockade is legal, then under San Remo it might be legal for Israel to board the flotilla ships in international waters. I say might because then it would be arguable that Section 10 of San Remo would apply since there is plenty of evidence that the blockade should be prohibited given the effect on the civilian population.

    So is the blockade legal?

    First, note that Israel has never declared war on Gaza for two reasons. Israel would have to recognise Gaza as a state in order to do so, and secondly, then the Geneva Conventions would apply and this would paradoxically considerably ease the situation in Gaza. Again, not something that Israel wants. So the blockade can not be legal from that standpoint.

    Second, San Remo, which is neither binding, nor to which Israel is a signatory, talks about blockades during a state of war between belligerents. It is clear that Turkey whose vessel was attacked is not a belligerent. There may have been some supporters of Hamas on board but the vessel itself, as Craig has pointed out, is in effect Turkish territory. So that does not create a ‘legalising’ reason for the attack.

    Lastly, since 1945 it has been the case that for a blockade to be legal it has to be determined as legal by the UN Security Council under Section 42. Clearly this is not the case. In fact if anything the opposite is true, since the blockade has been condemned on numerous occasions, though not be the Security Council. (The US would veto any attempt.)

    So, I conclude it must be illegal, from which the various points Craig makes follow.

  113. anon poster at 12.29am

    “Embargoes legally can be imposed in wartime and enforced in international waters but not in the waters of third parties.”

    Perfectly true. Unfortunately you have failed to notice Israel is not actually at was. That is where Sarah Palin’s US civil war analogy falls down too.

  114. Hamas fired over 3000 missiles on Israeli territory.

    Hamas is Israels sworn enemy.

    A Turkish ship flying it’s Country’s flag sailing from a Turkish port is attempting to break illegally Israel’s embargo.

    The Turkish government ordered the expedition.

    The Turkish government checked the cargo and said that there were no arms on board.

    Israel should accept that without inspection?

    According to VP Biden,Hamas confiscates all humanitarian aid,stores it in it’s warehouses and sells it for the benefit of Hamas.

    Israel should declair war on Turkey and NUKE Ankara.

  115. John Malcolm

    4 Jun, 2010 - 2:09 am

    Cant wait to see what happens next time if the Turks send a naval escort.

    It wasn’t an accident. It wasn’t piracy. I was an act of war carried out my Israel in international waters. An attack on one NATO member is an attack on the alliance.

    The Isreali’s can’t have it both ways. If they were/are officially at war with Hamas then they breach International Law on collective punishment and failure to protect civilans.

  116. The Uber-Zionists never sleep. They are on overtime this weekend. They are like Laurel and Hardy! Re-run after re-run. Black and white. The Big Lie doesn’t work any more, guys. Hal Halop, for example, sounds like a frightened filly, snorting and whinying on the gallop. But of course, their words betray the naked truth; they call for Israel to “nuke this, and nuke that”. This is what the state of Israel and its legions of supporters really are – warmongers of the worst variety.

  117. You are a liar. Here is the law.

    ———————————–

    Breach of blockade is the passage of a vessel or aircraft through a blockade without special entry or exit authorization from the blockading belligerent

    Attempted breach of blockade occurs from the time a vessel or aircraft leaves a port or airfield with the intention of evading the blockade

    , and for vessels exiting the blockaded area, continues until the voyage is completed. Knowledge of the existence of the blockade is essential to the offenses of breach of blockade and attempted breach of blockade. Knowledge may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification provided to affected governments.

    It is immaterial that the vessel or aircraft is at the time of interception bound for neutral territory, if its ultimate destination is the blockaded area.

    There is a presumption of attempted breach of blockade where vessels or aircraft are bound for a neutral port or airfield serving as a point of transit to the blockaded area. (Capture of such vessels is discussed in paragraph 7.10.)

    7.10 CAPTURE OF NEUTRAL VESSELS AND AIRCRAFT

    Neutral merchant vessels and civil aircraft are liable to capture by belligerent warships and military aircraft if engaged in any of the following activities:

    1. Avoiding an attempt to establish identity

    2. Resisting visit and search

    3. Carrying contraband

    4. Breaching or attempting to breach blockade

    5. Presenting irregular or fraudulent papers; lacking necessary papers; or destroying, defacing, or concealing papers

    6. Violating regulations established by a belligerent within the immediate area of naval operations

    7. Carrying personnel in the military or public service of the enemy

    8. Communicating information in the interest of the enemy.

    Captured vessels and aircraft are sent to a port or airfield under belligerent jurisdiction as a prize for adjudication by a prize court. Ordinarily, a belligerent warship will place a prize master and prize crew on board a captured vessel for this purpose. Should that be impracticable, the prize may be escorted into port by a belligerent warship or military aircraft. In the latter circumstances, the prize must obey the instructions of its escort or risk forcible measures. OPNAVINST 3120.32C, Standard Organization and Regulations of the U.S. Navy, Article 630.23 sets forth the duties and responsibilities of commanding officers and prize masters concerning captured vessels.)

    Neutral vessels or aircraft attempting to resist proper capture lay themselves open to forcible measures by belligerent warships and military aircraft and assume all risk of resulting damage.

    Taken from THE COMMANDER’S HANDBOOK ON THE LAW OF NAVAL OPERATIONS EDITION JULY 2007

    DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY

    OFFICE OF THE CHIEF OF NAVAL OPERATIONS AND

    HEADQUARTERS, U.S. MARINE CORPS,

    DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND

    U.S. COAST GUARD

    U.S. Navy Regulations, 1990, require U.S. naval commanders to observe international law. Article 0705, Observance of International Law, states: At all times, a commander shall observe, and require their commands to observe, the principles of international law.

    http://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment/a9b8e92d-2c8d-4779-9925-0defea93325c/1-14M_(Jul_2007)_(NWP)

  118. You are a liar. Here is the law.

    —-

    US Navy regulations are international law? :)

  119. dimwit, read the last paragraph!

    only idiots with internet connection question whether maritime law allows boarding of ships that are attempting to break a naval blockade.

    only a prejudiced bigot can be that blind.

    also, Israel boarded an Irish ship without incident. they will inspect the goods and move everything to Gaza. 10 TONS a week is coming into Gaza – a lot of it is Israeli aid. They use Israeli water, gas, power, medicine, health-care, and work permits.

    the only thing Israel requires is not to supply weapons to Hamas.

    if the men on the turkish ship were not on a suicide mission, everything would have been peaceful – just like it has been today and many times before.

  120. Idiot, bigot, or not, I think the time for peace has passed.

  121. Who are these anonymous posters, arguing with one another? It’s very confusing. Please do consider giving yourselves at least consistent pseudonyms (Apple, Orange, Mango, whatever) so that we can follow properly what you’re saying. Right now, I don’t know who’s arguing with whom, or whether it’s one person arguing with themselves!

  122. At this point in time, I don’t think it really matters.

  123. San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994

    102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:

    (a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or

    (b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.

  124. OK. and?

    Israel is at war with Hamas – a terrorist organization that took control illegally via a civil war with Fatah. If Israel wanted either (a) or (b) they would not transport the aid to gaza after inspecting for weapons. and they would not provide gaza with water, gas, power, medicine, food, health care, and work permits.

    No country in the world, no army in the world, EVER went of their way for the sake of civilians in enemy territory as much as Israel has.

    You seriously need to be on some sort of medication if you think that Israel being at war with Hamas has no legitimate reasons to make sure Hamas is not being re-armed. Have you EVER even looked at the map of the region?

    Human stupidity IS infinite…amazing.

  125. The UN says that the aid Isreal allows in is not enough to meet basic needs and frankly many items that are banned appear rather punative. I can well imagine the Isreali Government letting ships dock in Isreal and changing their mind about letting all of the aid through. Obviously this is not a problem if it is delivered directly.

    Whent the IRA were bombing England, the UK Government did not Blockade Northern Ireland. Think on that for a bit.

    As far as the Isreali Army and Civilians goes, the death toll speaks for itself.

    Anyway are you accusing the Irish of supplying Arms to Hamas? Are you accusing the representatives of many nations, including the USA of supporting Terrorism?

    I guess you must be in Isreal or are you a member of some Pro Isreal propaganda group that has been busy all weekend spamming forums. Your respons to the San Remo Manual paragraph says quite a lot.

    Nighty Night.

  126. hey moron, do you think that ships with weapons carry a big f-ing neon sign that says “weapons on board”?

    Look up Karine A – 50 tons of rockets on a ship that carried “humanitarian aid.”

    No one is accusing anyone of anything, but Hamas – a terrorist, totalitarian regime – will not be getting direct shipments of anything.

    Hamas is not recognizing Israel’s right to exist and from the day Israel pulled out of gaza Hamas did not stop launching rockets into Israel – if it were any other country in Israel’s position that whole area would have been a parking lot by now. But Israel provides water, gas, power, medicine, work permits and even health care to the civilians that are in enemy territory.

    this explains the situation rather well:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo

  127. So you are accusing the Irish and others of supporting Terrorism!

    Now you really do need to check your facts. It is well publicised that there is not enough power in Gaza, access to Hospitals is doubtful and work permits are currently non-existent.

    The problem is Isreal’s attitude toward other people. By turning Gaza into an open prison a great many people have nothing to do. This is making your enemies stronger, since many more people are beholden to them for basics.

    Also, like I said before, the body count speaks for itself. Including an English guy who was shot by an Israeli Sniper a few years ago, even though he was clearly unarmed and no threat at all.

    Nice talking to you Propaganda Guy, incidentally you sound rather flustered. Take a break.

  128. You have serious reading comprehension issues. Where have I accused the Irish of supporting terrorism?

    The naval blockade is in place to prevent Hamas rearming. Maritime law dictates that any ship, neutral or not, attempting to enter the blockaded area is subject to inspection or will suffer the consequences.

    Hamas is the SOLE oppressor in Gaza. If any one Palestinian is missing anything whatsoever it is by the will of Hamas. It is well known that they oppress their own people and that they took control by forcing Fatah to step away with live fire – a well documented civil conflict.

    Hamas has the budget of a small country. They spend nothing on their civilians, but they ALWAYS have money for weapons. Why? becasue it’s a double pronged war effort: one the one hand they continuously fire rockets into Israel, on the other they lead a propaganda campaign by throwing their people under a bus.

    You are a damn hypocrite. No country in the world would have extended so much effort of inspecting the ships and transporting the good into gaza. Israel is at a WAR and yet it expands untold resources for the sake of the people in the enemy territory.

    Hamas is killing Palestinians by the dozens EVERY DAY. Just do your own research – they are spraying their own people with bullets and keeping the fear alive. They are simply not allowing for any moderate Palestinian authority to arise.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_OGhj43GAE

  129. Hi there propaganda guy,

    If an Irish, Turkish or American Civil craft is not allowed to dock in Gaza it is because you / Isreal assume the Irish, Turkish, others are intent on delivering weapons. Simple Logic.

    Isreal could take the word of many countries about the contents of an aid ship. The only logical conclusion is that Isreal wants to be the gatekeeper for the aid so that it can prevent supplies arriving on a whim.

    Additinally Isreal is clearly not going to extraordinary lengths to inspect ships, because it will only inspect them in Isreal and not allow any direct access to Gaza, by imposing an illegal blockade.

    If Hamas had the budget of a small country, I’m sure it could procure much better weapons.

    You are quite right, Hamas are not a nice group. However Isreal acts as Hama’s recruiting agent with the way it treats others. I would even go as far as saying that Isreal created the environment which allowed Hamas to come into being and gain a power base.

    Isreal, as a State, treats the Palestinians like animals and some of your colleages in the propaganda business actually seem to promote this.

  130. Hey, dimwit

    do you know what a naval blockade is?

    did you just suggest that a country at war will let ships through to enemy territory based on a simple promise?

    what mental institution are you writing from?

    Karine A and Francop also claimed to have humanitarian aid and Israel boarded them in international waters to discover hundreds of thousands of tons in weapons. how about that, dimwit?

    Hamas is a terrorist organization that has taken control over gaza by the virtue of war with the opposition -Fatah. Ever since Israel pulled out og gaza Hamas did not stop launching weapons into southern Israel.

    No ship will go through to gaza without an inspection. Israeli naval blockade is established based on international maritime law. Anyone who expects Israel to lift the blockade is prejudiced, bigoted, hypocrite. And anyone suggesting that they let ships through based on a promise of not having weapons is a CLOWN. (<–that’s you)

  131. Hamas couldn’t care less about their civilians. Hamas are using them as an excuse to smuggle in weapons, as human shields, and as a means to lead their PR effort. The latter recruits idiots from Europe who can’t tell their arse from their elbow.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70Oqo_wmuGo

  132. Hi there propaganda guy,

    Do you know what Illegal means? The Isreali blockade of Gaza is Illegal. Therefor the siezure of the ships (all of the ships) is Illegal and the killing of passengers was aggression, not self defence.

    I had a look at the IDF Flicker page. Did you realise that the IDF assumes people are terrorists because they found the contents of the ships tool box and the knives from the Galley? Where were the guns?

    Why use so many bullets to kill a man with a peice of wood?

    Isreal has to be really careful, it’s on very dangerous ground. It can trust ships from a great many places, but chooses not to. Weapons are a pretext for collective punishment.

    Did I mention that the blockade is Illegal?

  133. There’s only one problem with your argument, dipshit.

    The blockade is legal. Legal and necessary.

    Israel is at war with Hamas. Hamas is the totalitarian terrorist militia that is in charge of gaza.

    Pigeon brain, you follow so far?

    According to maritime law, Israel is within its rights to establish a blockade on such an are to prevent the enemy of smuggling in arms.

    Israel is at war, and it has recovered HUNDREDS of tons of weapons when it boarded other “aid” ships that attempted to break the entirely legal, and fully vindicated blockade. And you suggest that Israel subject itself – 8,367sq mi in total size – to such danger on a wing and a prayer.

    If you are not kidding, then talking to you is like a glimpse into a world where communication with pigeons has been made possible.

  134. Dipshit,

    can you read well?

    98. Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked.

    100. A blockade must be applied impartially to the vessels of all States.

  135. Is Israel flotilla raid involved espionage, sabotage?

    Carlos Benson|Monday, June 28, 2010

    The worldwide debate about last Israeli raid on the Gaza Freedom Flotilla has concentrated relatively little on the operation’s intelligence aspect. This is rather puzzling, considering that the intelligence aspects of the attack are largely responsible for its bloody outcome. Many first accounts or the flotilla participants, as well as some facts purposely were ignored or at last not paid attention to.

    The Gaza-bound ships had drawn minor international attention prior of the raid in international waters by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). But the effort by the Israeli security services to prevent the flotilla from reaching its intended destination did not begin in the evening of 30-th of May 2010 the Mediterranean Sea. It started several months before the fleet of ten vessels was even chartered by the Humanitarian Aid Foundation (

Powered By Wordpress | Designed By Ridgey | Produced by Tim Ireland | Hosted by Expathos