Publish it on your website and tweet it as a link on the web. You’ll get plenty of retweets. Overall I reckon you’ll get as many readers as a publisher delegating it to p94 in the Telegraph.

Have you tried Al Jazeera website? Or eevn coming on air? Get in touch if you need to.

I am prepared to translate it and send it to various other countries if you wish.

The ridiculous censorship is so endemic that no one dares to even call it censorship, the fear sewn by the zionist overlords has got everyone running for cover. How is about that for “democracy”?

Does anyone know when reference was made to the subject on ‘Today’ and I will try to find an iPlayer link if no-one beats me to it.

Perhaps Stephen could suggest a way round or through the Zionist censorship.

careful craig, going down this road could lead to you being found at the edge of a wood having committed suicide. just practice saying this `אנא אדון חילוף חיים חסרי ערך שלי` . and now for something completely different, did lame street media report the dismissal of all the top brass of the army navy and airforce in greece and replace them with minister/s, for fear of a military coup, or that the greek elite have stashed billions in swiss bank accounts, thats why the greeks hate paying tax, because of their corrupt government. has anyone mentioned the quadrillions of becquerels of radioactive material from fukushima dispersed into the sea, or that tokyo has in places higher levels of radioactivity than chernobyl did in the `80s. has anyone drawn attention to all these so called national unity governments taking the place of dumped prime ministers, im scared we are heading toward a very dark place, we need someone who stamps their feet and salutes in an imperial roman style, NOT. and the rest of it, no no and no. i dont always agree with what you or other readers say but i read with interest, and long may it continue. craig do not allow yourself to become the first casualty of the iran war, or even the 2nd or third etc. god bless have a nice weekend.

Craig – Sent it to Counterpunch in the US (edited by Alex Cockburn). They’ll definitely take it. Also check out the Information Clearing House. I know you want something mainstream but ICH does a good job of compiling daily the best antiwar, anti-neocon pieces. All the best, Njegos

“Perhaps Stephen could suggest a way round or through the Zionist censorship.”

If that is what it is, which I somehow doubt – rather than fear of libel(which is what it sounds like) – then the answer would be to print it on your website and then send links to the newspapers concerned. It is far easier and more fireproof to quote information that is already in the public domain – where someone else has taken the legal risk.

I don’t know if you have noticed Mary but there is precious little that Israel manages to hide.

I would also suggest that Craig might wish to find more than one source to back up his allegations if he hasn’t done so already. Good journalists used to look for corroboration before going to print – although many are not so fussy nowadays.

“I have written a stunning piece .. ”

How dare they refuse to publish an article on the basis of such an excellent recommendation! Clearly a sign that you must be blacklisted. But you could always post it here.

Gary Why should Craig be saying Please Lord spare my worthless life?? Anything but worthless IMHO.
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Who said anything about libel? Oh Stephen of course.

Al Jazeera does seem the most obvious outlet for this. Have you something against them?

The important thing now is to get your story out into the public domain. Others have mentioned suitable vehicles to that end.
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I’m assuming here that your story concerns the Israeli lobby, but with additional information indicating that said lobby has moved from lobbying, money and influence to a much more sinister direct control?
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Peter Oborne has done some rather brave work in this area.

Mr Murray, I put this comment on another of your blogs the other day. I think it is relevent to this blog too:

Damning proof that the Guardian does not support free-speech, especially when it comes to Israel.

I posted this link just after 7pm today on this website:

An article by Gilad Atzmon is rather enlightening:

This Is How Israel Runs The British Press

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29642.htm

After reading the Guardian article ‘Why do the US media believe the worst about Iran’ (link provided by Pee above) I posted exactly the same comment and link on the Guardian website at 7.14pm.

This what I found on revisiting just now, an hour and a half later:
BarryR38
9 November 2011 7:14PM
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn’t abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

Good luck with the article Craig. I hope you get it published in the main stream media although things negative about Israel and their supporters seem not to make it,that is the kind of so called free press we have.I would try abroad with people not under the western umbrella first off.

A bit off-topic but perhaps not so much – this article about Hague’s involvement in Libyan oil mentions Tony Buckingham – at first I couldn’t remember where I’d seen the name before, but obviously he is mentioned in your book. These people are everywhere!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8882816/Hague-facing-questions-over-Libya-deal.html

Please publish it here, Craig. What you say about the responses from the papers is interesting but not surprising.

Craig

That is just my view as to why the newspapers might be refusing your story – in my experience newspapers do not always give their reasons for not wanting to print a story and the responses you print point to that. It doesn’t follow that there is anti Zionist conspiracy and there could be plenty of other reasons.

You must be aware that there are plenty of people who are prepared to sue people for libel – even when there clearly is no libel – and they are not all Zionists. And if those concerned are rich or big enough the newspapers will back off if they think that the possible costs outweigh the benefits. This is probably why some stroies end up with the likes of Dale and Guido rather than in the Press.

Happy to accept that you have checked your sources, hence the reference to “hasn’t done so already” in my original post – I just didn’t know and that may otherwise have been a legitimate concern of the newspapers. If the tone was a little off then I apologise – but I was responding to yet another of Mary’s stupid insinuations that I am some sort of Mossad agent.

PS I don’t think Guido is yet a convicted libeller – much as I would like him to be.

BarryR38

I would have to agree about the guardian,they removed all my posts on comment is free about the Israelis influence over American media and politicians. I complained and they never replied. Then I found this story on Haaretz.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/u-k-s-guardian-owns-up-to-inadvertent-cases-of-anti-semitism-1.394851

I would so love to read the said article!!! Doh!!!

UnfortunatelyAl Jazeera is no-longer what it used to be. RT seems to be the news channel to watch these days, especially Max Keiser and Tracy Herbert, Crosstalk and The Alyana Show. Information Clearing House is the best web-newsletter (in my opinion). Take a look at Truthout too.

@CraigMurray

I think the real problem is that people in the UK are not aware of what Zionism really is. It would need a several exposes of the disinformation and propaganda surrounding the Zionist mythology before people understood that there are concerns to address.

There is huge confusion. I regularly have to re-state my position that I am not anti-Semitic, I am not anti-Jewish, I am not racist, I am not religionist.

I am a Christian, which means I have “bound myself to the Lord”, which means that I am spiritually allied to all Jewish people :-

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2056:1-8&version=NIV

I do not accept the decision to found the State of Israel by the world’s great powers. It did not resolve the problems faced by Jewry in Europe and elsewhere, and despite the original mandate, it obviously had in it the potential to create regional conflict.

According to my reading of scripture, the tribes of Israel and Judah forfeit the right to ownership of the land in Palestine because of spiritual apostasy, or rather, infidelity; it cannot be regained by the force of arms. Peace in the region can only come when God himself rules.

The State of Israel is like a cruel joke played on global Jewry : out of the frying pan of Europe and into the fire of sitting right in the middle of Arab states. The formation of the State of Israel and the mass migration of Jews to Israel succeeded in the ethnic cleansing of Europe far more effectively than the Nazi regime in Germany.

The United States of America gained a puppet state in the Middle East out of this horrible compromise, and is still paying guilt money to the State of Israel. The arms and the funding may well stop soon because of the economic liabilities America is facing up to. What then for the State of Israel ? The State of Israel needs to learn the art of peacemaking. In the mean time, we all need to learn about Zionism and how political goals were achieved through religious propaganda.

Tournesol
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“this article about Hague’s involvement in Libyan oil mentions Tony Buckingham – at first I couldn’t remember where I’d seen the name before, but obviously he is mentioned in your book. These people are everywhere!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8882816/Hague-facing-questions-over-Libya-deal.html”
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Pepe Escobar writes about Heritage Oil and Uganda:
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“So why Uganda? Enter London-based Heritage Oil, and its chairman Tony Buckingham, a former – you guessed it – “contractor” (ie mercenary). Here’s Heritage’s modus operandi, described by Buckingham himself; they deploy “a first mover strategy of entering regions with vast hydrocarbon wealth where we have a strategic advantage”.
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“Translation: wherever there’s foreign invasion, civil war, total breakdown of social order, there are big bucks to be made. Thus Heritage’s presence in Iraq, Libya and Uganda.
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“Profiting from post-war fog, Heritage signed juicy deals in Iraqi Kurdistan behind the back of the central government in Baghdad. In Libya, Heritage bought a 51% stake in a local company called Sahara Oil Services; this means it’s now directly involved in operating oil and gas licenses. Pressed about it, TNC honchos have tried to change the conversation, alleging that nothing is approved yet.
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“What’s certain is that Heritage barged into Libya via a former SAS commando, John Holmes, founder of Erinys, one of the top mercenary outfits in Iraq apart from Xe Services, former Blackwater. Holmes cunningly shipped the right bottles of Johnnie Walker Blue Label to Benghazi for the right TNC crooks, seducing them with Heritage’s mercenary know-how of enforcing “oil field security”. ”
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http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/MJ21Dj03.html

Tournesol, Pepe Escobar on Heritage Oil, ref to the Telegraph article:
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“….. London-based Heritage Oil, and its chairman Tony Buckingham, a former – you guessed it – “contractor” (ie mercenary). Here’s Heritage’s modus operandi, described by Buckingham himself; they deploy “a first mover strategy of entering regions with vast hydrocarbon wealth where we have a strategic advantage”.
.
“Translation: wherever there’s foreign invasion, civil war, total breakdown of social order, there are big bucks to be made. Thus Heritage’s presence in Iraq, Libya and Uganda.
.
“Profiting from post-war fog, Heritage signed juicy deals in Iraqi Kurdistan behind the back of the central government in Baghdad. In Libya, Heritage bought a 51% stake in a local company called Sahara Oil Services; this means it’s now directly involved in operating oil and gas licenses. Pressed about it, TNC honchos have tried to change the conversation, alleging that nothing is approved yet.
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“What’s certain is that Heritage barged into Libya via a former SAS commando, John Holmes, founder of Erinys, one of the top mercenary outfits in Iraq apart from Xe Services, former Blackwater. Holmes cunningly shipped the right bottles of Johnnie Walker Blue Label to Benghazi for the right TNC crooks, seducing them with Heritage’s mercenary know-how of enforcing “oil field security”. ”
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http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/MJ21Dj03.html

Craig – if you’ve not considered them already, Private Eye is generally unafraid of outside pressure.
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There are progressive news/politics broadcasters in the US, such as Mike Malloy (http://www.mikemalloy.com/), and Sam Seder of The Majority Report (http://majority.fm/), who would be happy to break a story like this. They distinguish themselves by having the courage to openly denounce Israeli atrocities on a regular basis, and like to get into details – their audience is generally very well informed. Mike Malloy has mentioned you in the past.

Stephen ‘I am some sort of Mossad agent’ You said that. I never have. I have always thought that you are a troll. Hasbara/Megaphone/CAMERA/Israel project should be proud.
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Poor old Gilad Atzmon got the treatment at Exeter University the night before last. If he was an academic at an American university, he would have lost his tenure by now like Norman Finkelstein.
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http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-challenges-picketers-prior-to-his-talk-in-exete.html

{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_Kingdom}

The only important thing about Blair’s article for The Guardian is just how many comments have been censored.
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There seem to be more that are censored than are allowed and even those which are allowed are critical of the disgusting creature.
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This goes to the very heart of the changes that are taking place in the world. People now realise that they been lied to by the very institutions that ought to be protecting our democracy. These institutions, including Parliament, Judiciary, Police and Media are corrupt and no longer fit for any purpose other than root and branch reform.
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It’s not possible anymore to work through these institutions for reform of this corruption any longer. They themselves are now the problem.
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That’s why all over the world people are taking to bottom up democratic action.

I don’t think that anyone cares a toss what Blair says. He is completely discredited and has been for a long time. Just hope his pal Rusbridger did not pay him for that tripe today.

That Haaretz piece is astonishing, showing the Guardian Chris Elliot cringing before the possibility that something written about Israel could be interpreted (by who?) as anti-semitic. And when you look at the instances highlighted, the 1st two clearly take an anti-Israeli policy line, while the 3rd seems vague and has little context. But WRT the 1st 2 it is now clear that any comment critical of Israeli government policy will be taken by the Guardian as being potentially read by person or persons unknown as anti-semitic and will be erased. Seems to me.

Shameful… the British way. All very polite – you can almost hear the rattling of teacups – yet stonewalling.
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Get it out, whatever way you can. Get it on the web/ social networking sites and so will be spread virally. Maximise exposure on all appropriate oppositional sites. Yes, try all the outlets suggested by the people here.
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Good on you! Go for it!

Herbie, “Blair’s article for The Guardian …. There seem to be more that are censored than are allowed and even those which are allowed are critical of the disgusting creature.”
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Just had a look. I read most of the ones that are deleted before they were censored. They were all inoffensive to the extreme and many rather funny.
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You aren’t even allowed to make fun of a monster like Blair!
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What are the Guardian editors so frightened of?
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Another possible publication site would be What Really Happened, hosted by Michael Rivero. I believe he is based in Hawai and is frequently critical of the US/Israel coalition and the continual drumbeats for World War III (well somebody has to sell the bullets). You might also try Wayne Madsen Report although I think you have to subscribe in order to comment. Still worth trying. Madsen is/was a Washington insider and a frequent thorn in the side of the dross coming out of US mainstream media. Good luck

Sorry, double post to Tournesol, thought the first one was lost.

Craig, the Morning Star claims to be for Peace and Socialism. It might not have the readership of some of the more powerful dailies, but this piece, with links on this blog, could see it go global. It’s frightening to think the Israeli lobby has so much power, and as posted yesterday there are only 3 countries who do not have a Rothschild Central Bank – the world is greed gone mad, greed for money, greed for oil.

Herbie writes: ‘The only important thing about Blair’s article for The Guardian is just how many comments have been censored.’

My exact sentiments too. ‘Tis a pity the Guardian is not as it was in the late fifties and early sixties.

Have I lost a comment, or is it in quarantine?

Anybody in Birmingham wanting white poppies to go with their red ones they can get them at the health store in Allison Street (Friends of the Earth) and also in the chaplaincy at the University.

Ken, the story on Haaretz/Guardian/anti-Semitism.

Haaretz quote:
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While Elliot defended the paper’s commitment to balanced reporting, he spoke of three incidents, saying “in the last nine months I have upheld complaints against language within articles that I agreed could be read as anti-Semitic.”
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Such incidents included, according to Elliot, “references to Israel/U.S. ‘global domination’ and the term ‘slavish’ to describe the U.S. relationship with Israel; and, in an article on a lost tribe of Mallorcan Jews, what I regarded as a gratuitous reference to ‘the island’s wealthier families.’”
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http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/u-k-s-guardian-owns-up-to-inadvertent-cases-of-anti-semitism-1.394851
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I’m a regular reader of the on-line Guardian and I have never read the words ‘global domination’ in an article about Israel.
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“slavish” might be, at certain times, an accurate descriptions of US/Israeli relations.Context is important.
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And the last … “a lost tribe of Mallorcan Jews, what I regarded as a gratuitous reference to ‘the island’s wealthier families”.
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I went to the original Guardian article, it had be censored.

Andy, I agree. Calling the US slavish (servile might be a better word) in making the Arab world a more amenable place to Israel through NATO wars in the Middle East is not anti-Semitic, but a clear statement of fact. But that makes other NATO countries, including the UK, slavish too.

What I think is happening at the Guardian is a prolonged campaign by one of these pro Israeli groups who complain to the editor etc,same is happening on the comment is free pages they just press the abuse button and report what they consider anti semitic comments but the reality is that these comments are anti Israeli government policy and anti the groups who push the Israel agenda in the media. It is disgraceful but anywhere on the internet is open to abuse by these people. The Guardian has gone well down in my estimation, This and the constant anti Assange stories have really made me not read the paper anymore. Their comment is free section also has an American section and you will find a lot of the pro war,pro Israeli viewpoint being aired there by Guardian guest writers.

Sorry to be off topic but just received this email from Avaaz.org

‘…Three years ago, public pressure pushed through a ban of these cruel bombs. But now the US is lobbying nations to quietly sign a new law that allows their use — signing the death warrant for thousands of other children. Most countries are still on the fence on how to vote. Only if we raise the alarm across the world can we shame our governments to block this deadly decision.’

Please sign the petition

http://www.avaaz.org/en/cluster_bombs_ii_b/?vl

I just signed a petition calling on the British government not to attack Iran.

http://www.stopwar.iparl.com/petition/6

Hope it’s not against the sites rules to solicit support.

You really cannot see why papers think twice about publishing allegations of a covert Jewish plot to subvert UK foreign policy?

The answer must lie in a ‘Zionist lobby’? (Part of the proof for which lies in the quality of your work: it is ‘stunning’, you say.)

The journalist Matthew Paris once asked Enoch Powell if he felt embarrassed by those who became his supporters. Powell affected not to be: ‘I take the support I can get.’ On any serious analysis, this was an inadequate response – it may not have reflected Powell’s true view.

As I observed in a previous comment, you encourage the readers of your posts – through a combination,
inter alia, of your erstwhile access to information, and their obvious vulnerability – in various most unfortunate beliefs. (For example, posts above refer to Zionist censorship, sinister control of the Israeli lobby, Zionist overlords, and one even implies that an Oxford academic was murdered by, or with the complicity of, the UK government.) It is unclear what, if any, responsibility you take for this.

It is very sad. You simultaneously harm these people and damage your own credibility. Bluntly, if any part of the establishment has sought to marginalise you, then you play into its hands.

I will not trouble you again with my views. But I would invite you to consider them, in the spirit of good faifh in which they are offered.

they are intended.

Haha, Craig-I followed the link to the Blair-Faith-Scandal. Have you noticed the deleted comments? Looks like Moderators running amok with chainsaws!

The Guardian is loosing money -£35 million last year .I wonder if this has anything to do with it’s editorial policy ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/guardian-to-cut-jobs-after-16335m-loss-2298699.html

joe templeton Zionist censorship, sinister control of the Israeli lobby.

Happens to be a fact which is well sourced,very well sourced. I suggest you do some real research before commenting on something you obviously know little about or are just trying to pour scorn on for no other reason that you support the Israeli side.

I’m wondering if the Guardian and perhaps the Mail aren’t working on something of their own, from parallel sources. Both have been pretty active on the Foxwerritty story previously. Also I am wondering if the hasbara network hasn’t intensified its efforts as several sensitive matters coincided: the new offensive against Iran, the Gaza flotilla and the continuing efforts by the Palestinians at the UN.
Your story will get read wherever you put it. But you’ll only be preaching to the converted if you put it here or on an identifiably antizionist medium. Catch-22. For what it’s worth, I suggest persisting with the MSM, and giving it a couple of days more. Can you talk face-to-face to some of the friendlier respondents to your emails? Or how about a large regional like the Yorkshire Post or EDP?

Glasgow Herald, Press and Journal, Western Mail?

Blair’s a piece of work, isn’t he? Couldn’t wait to get into Iraq, and now he’s bleeding St Francis? Horrible, horrible link, Craig. Please don’t do it again.

John Goss: “Andy, I agree. Calling the US slavish (servile might be a better word) in making the Arab world a more amenable place to Israel through NATO wars in the Middle East is not anti-Semitic, but a clear statement of fact. But that makes other NATO countries, including the UK, slavish too.”
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“Elliot, “references to Israel/U.S. ‘global domination’ and the term ‘slavish’ to describe the U.S. relationship with Israel… ”
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What are these “references” ?

Why are Guardian readers not allowed to debate.

Israeli Lobby does not manipulate the Media, they Instruct them what to say, and how to say it
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although they were ‘embarrassed’ when found out
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Lorna Fitzsimons unwittingly spills the beans
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So there is no truth Craig Murray’s contentions, because his material is “libellous”, and that is why the various papers have not taken up his work. Furthermore the tactic of paying 200 quids hush money with promise of oodles more if published, don’t smack of suppression of truth.
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I am glad I found the “fraud” that Craig is, thanks to the ziophile shill trolling this site, I am convinced now, oh joy!
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PS why does anyone post in Guardian?

Craig Murray, your blog has been there for me when I’ve felt like truth and honesty had gone down the drain.
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Lots of Thanks.

Andy, I would defend their (Guardian readers) rights to debate, and yours, but the admission of Elliot in the link you embedded to being anti-Semitic might appease readers of Jewish World, which seems likely what was lobbied for, but does not detract from the fact that US/Israel relations in certain contexts can be seen as slavish. The further fact that ‘global domination’ is on the US agenda with the full sanctioning of many Israeli lobbyists is clear to anyone with a brain that has kept an eye on world affairs over the past decade.

After robustly defending Assange against the latest ghastly smear published in the Guardian, an appalling article written by a journalist called Karin Olsson from “Expressen” which is the Swedish version of The Sun, I got into really hot water on the Guardian’s Comment is Free site, which I jokingly dubbed Talk is Cheap.

I was criticised by one of their journalists for being facually wrong in my description of the law on rape, without the said journalist saying whether he was referring to Swedish or UK rape laws, which I thought was highly relevant. But asking the question, questioning the competence of Guardian journalists, their level of knowledge of Swedish law in regard to uncorroberated witness testimony and whether or not such testimony could result in a conviction, without any physical evidence that a crime, had, in fact, been committed; was too much for the Guardian.

First my comments about Swedish law and the minefield that is Swedish sexual/gender politics; were removed, then my comments about why they were removed where… removed, but without acknowledgement that they’ed been removed for unamed breeches of “community standards”, then I suddenly appeared on the “blacklist”, that is all my comments, on any subject, were suddenly subject to “pre-moderation” which effectively means… being banned from commenting on Talk is Cheap altogether, as an enemy of the Guardian.

And it is somewhat galling to see Tony Blair, who in healthy and functioning democracy would already be behind bars for warcrimes, given space to wank off about his faith, in terms that can only be described as quasi-religious gobbledegook.

I wonder, does anyone know if Alan Rusbridger is a Christian too, that is, Blair’s style of Christian?

Jt – you have a very good point. The Guardian has been losing money hand over fist over the last couple of years, and has had to do some corporate restructuring. It appointed Andrew Miller as CEO last year. His previous job had been CFO of Trader Media Group, which is jointly owned by the Guardian’s parent, GMG, and Apax Partners. Apax Partners was founded by Sir Ronald Cohen, whose record is a bit ambiguous. On the one hand, he was given the Jubilee Award for services to Israeli business, by none other than Netanyahu; on the other, he is involved through the Portland Trust in developing the Palestinian private sector. Which could mean anything. Apax also has a dubious past which includes the disappearance of a workers’ pension fund. It has been associated with GMG in other partnerships.
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I’m sure this post is completely off topic. Unless the Guardian is cash-strapped, in which case I’m not so sure.

Oh, yes. More on Cohen, Apax and the opaque charity:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1555473/Watchdog-looks-into-Brown-aides-charity.html

“But you’ll only be preaching to the converted if you put it here or on an identifiably antizionist medium. Catch-22. For what it’s worth, I suggest persisting with the MSM, and giving it a couple of days more. Can you talk face-to-face to some of the friendlier respondents to your emails?”
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That would be my reaction too. Can you phone them? They’ll hardly refuse to take your calls? If all goes to all you could go to e.g. Information Clearing House, but much better to be published in the British MSM if possible. (No wonder you were pissed off, by the way!)

Of interest?
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AFGHANISTAN PUBLIC MEETING IN PARLIAMENT
.
6.30pm, Tuesday 22 November
House of Commons
Committee Room 9, House of Commons, SW1A 0AA
(St Stephens entrance, nearest tube Westminster)
.
Organised by the Afghanistan Withdrawal Group of MPs
Supported by Stop the War Coalition
.
The Russians in Afghanistan 1979-89
LESSONS FOR TODAY
Speaker: Rodric Braithwaite
Chair: Paul Flynn MP
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Rodric Braithwaite is author of the much-reviewed Afgantsy: The Russians in
Afghanistan, 1979-89, published in March this year. A former diplomat who spent
much of his career dealing with Russia, Braithwaite was British Ambassador in
Moscow at the time of the Soviet withdrawal.

This is why we need to set up a comprehensive online newspaper with contributors experienced in particular fields.

Issues the government wants buried can be kept on the boil. Issues such as the death of Dr Kelly in which a doctor has started proceedings for a judicial review of Grieve’s decision not to hold a coroner’s inquest.

The Guardian Media Group’s chief financial officer, also a recent arrival, also came from Trader Media (co-prop, Apax). His name is Darren Singer. According to TM’s website, both Miller and Singer are GMG’s representatives on the TM board. Cosy. I’d ask how much control the Scott Trust has over GMG policy these days. If I thought it knew.
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*bite*

“You simultaneously harm these people and damage your own credibility.” Joe Templeton.
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What an astonishingly patronising paragraph that was. There may be some content here with which one would – and (if you had ever bothered really to read) does – take issue. But your attempt to denigrate Craig Murray and all the variegated contributors to his blog, drawing on selected snippets, smacks of nothing more than vanity.
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And what part of your work, may I ask, might be representative of your immense literary, communicative, or political skills? Can you demonstrate that you are ‘unharmed’ and therefore different and better? Or is a sign of being ‘unharmed’ simply that one backs everything the power structures say and do?

Cowards and cretins, all of them, Craig. Publish it yourself. We will all cascade it.

Craig, give them a few more days and if they persist in their pusillanimity, publish it on your blog and I’ll do my best to spread it around a few sites with decent readership and included a note (with a link back to your post) that the mainstream media wouldn’t touch it. In that way, we might shame the msm into saying something about it. Not holding my breath on that last one though.

Here is Sir Ronald Cohen, founder of Apax, which co-owns Trader Media with the Guardian Media Group, addressing the 2011 Herzliya Conference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hquKC8XALHw
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Hands up who can remember who else was there?
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Clue: red, bushy tail, dog family?

Sorry to stuff up your blog, Craig, but one of the sponsors of the Herzliya Conference 2011 was Tamares. Another familiar name in the context of Foxwerrity…Zabludowicz is its CEO…hope this isn’t getting into your article’s territory.

Getting back to the Guardian deleting comments that tell the truth about Israeli pressure groups in the media and on politicians. I had a reply to my query asking why they were deleted. Basically it is accusing me of being an anti semite and posting hate speech. Here it is.

Dear Harry,

Your comments used anti-Semitic tropes about Jewish control of the media
along with other over-generalisations about “the Jews”. Unless your
comments cease to include what appears to be hate speech, your posting
privileges will remain restricted or will be withdrawn, in line with points
4 and 5 of our community standards.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/community-standards

Best wishes,
Sarah

Moderator

At risk of using an antisemitic trope, I am wondering if “Sarah” is herself of the, er, well, you know, that faith? If so, I believe the word is “chutzpah”. There was a piece in the Guardian a few days ago stating its new policy on antisemitic tropes, and I got the impression that even mentioning antisemitic tropes is now considered an antisemitic trope.
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Ronald Cohen, founder of Apax, which co-owns Trader Media with the Guardian Media Group, (in case you’d missed it), and whose property company Portland Capital, sharing palatial London offices with the extremely opaque “charity” Portland Trust, went bang a year or two ago, has been having discussions with the Big Society Government about the Big Society Bank…it’s the society which is big, not the bank,,,,
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http://whoslobbying.com/uk/ronald_cohen
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It’s all out there, hacks. All you have to do is look.

Craig, this:

“Stephen,

I used to think you were a friendly and interesting commentator putting forward a different view, but now I realise you are just a troll. Of course the article is properly sourced, and it follows proper journalistic ethics, ie those criticised have been asked for their viewpoint. As I plainly stated, several national newspapers have fact-checked it and the facts are fine.

Do you see a single querying of fact in the above exchanges? If there is a fear of libel – and nobody has ever sued me for libel, unlike for example convicted libellers Iain Dale and Guido Fawkes – the newspaper calls you in to go through it with the lawyer. I have been there many times before.

This is nothing to do with libel or with doubted facts. Now stop being an obvious arse.”

shows that you have seriously lost the plot. I expect that editors no longer wish to be associated with someone so evidently unbalanced. It would not be good for their credibility.

Oborne documented other pressures on the Guardian;
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http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-oborne-james-jones/pro-israel-lobby-in-britain-full-text#m6

“You really cannot see why papers think twice about publishing allegations of a covert Jewish plot to subvert UK foreign policy?

The answer must lie in a ‘Zionist lobby’? (Part of the proof for which lies in the quality of your work: it is ‘stunning’, you say.)

The journalist Matthew Paris once asked Enoch Powell if he felt embarrassed by those who became his supporters. Powell affected not to be: ‘I take the support I can get.’ On any serious analysis, this was an inadequate response – it may not have reflected Powell’s true view.

As I observed in a previous comment, you encourage the readers of your posts – through a combination,
inter alia, of your erstwhile access to information, and their obvious vulnerability – in various most unfortunate beliefs. (For example, posts above refer to Zionist censorship, sinister control of the Israeli lobby, Zionist overlords, and one even implies that an Oxford academic was murdered by, or with the complicity of, the UK government.) It is unclear what, if any, responsibility you take for this.

It is very sad. You simultaneously harm these people and damage your own credibility. Bluntly, if any part of the establishment has sought to marginalise you, then you play into its hands.

I will not trouble you again with my views. But I would invite you to consider them, in the spirit of good faifh in which they are offered.

they are intended.”

Spot on.

Bear Spot on.

Well no it is not spot on. It is rubbish.Please stop trolling.

It would be good to see the article and judge for ourselves. The law of the land permitting. It doesn’t look as if the emails above are concerned that this might be an issue. Personally, I don’t think zionism has much to do with the matter. It is merely a convenient network for a lot of rich people with access to it and a wish to become even richer. I’m following the money.

Yes it would be nice to see the article but I think Craig wants it in the main stream media and wants to get paid for it. I do not blame him for that he did the work.

That Swedish journalist who attacked Assange was eager to link him to the son of the “anti-semite” Israel Shamir (so it’s not really about rape after all, is it darling?). I think the Guardian should be renamed The Witchhunter. It seems to have whole-heartedly devoted itself to the hysterical cause of anti-anti-semitism.

Screw the MSM. Go for Counterpunch Craig.

Israel seems to be the only country where they still have a free press. Try Ha’aretz, or JePo.

I wonder who will replace Alderman Bear today? Bear will carry on ‘opening’ Britain for business in his enthusiasm for small business ventures while carrying the cross of St.John.
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http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=227646

It’s possible, I suppose, that The Guardian has been working on this story as well? And they can’t print Craig’s article because it interferes with – or is better than – their own investigations?
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No, I don’t believe that either. Likely some senior editor has nixed it for political or ideological reasons. We should be wary of assuming The Guardian is our friend, just because the hacking story is good. It is good, but The Guardian is a liberal-establishment newspaper, and some of its sources – not to mention it’s journalists – have links to securitat, of that I am in no doubt. There is a curious mainstream belief that propaganda is something They do, whilst We of course are above such things. Or maybe there is no such wide-spread belief, and the existence of such a belief is propaganda in itself.
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I’m depressing myself now. Whatever, all I know is that banker is now PM of Greece, without even a Soviet-style fake election, never mind an actual election. Thus we are left with little other choice but to consider conspiracies.

Having been an avid reader of your blog since its beginnings I am much surprised that you would waste your time submitting stories to the main stream media (I don’t so waste my time on such readings and this is why I read your blog and others).
I would respectfully request that you make contact with Russia Today (rt.com) and I do look forward to seeing you as a regular interviewee thereon. Also you could consider presstv.com and
http://globalresearch.ca/

Re BarryR38 an al jazera not being as good anymore. He is correct. A Qatari prince has been put in charge just as the first of the “we must protect the poor citizens of Libya” protestations were made. The utter crap and pro nato had eminated from them after that make now no more reliable than the British Bullshit and Crap news service.

As to there being no zionist lobby pressuring media, academia and Govts through out the western world to not criticise israel or zionists in general. whoever thinks that has obviosly just awoken from a decades long coma and has some serious catching up to do !!

The Guardian is, incidentally correct in admitting to having published anti-Semitic statements, i.e., statements critical of Israel. Such statements come within the definition of the so-called “new anti-semitism”, which has actually been around since the 50′s when Abba Eban and others asserted that it was imperative to define criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism.
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I see nothing actually wrong with this, although as I have argued elsewhere on this blog, it is a decision that may come back to bite Israel, and Jews in general, since if legitimate, fair and factual criticism of Israel can be correctly labelled anti-Semitism, then there is no shame in being an anti-Semite, any more than there is shame in condemning US imperialism or British toadyism to Israel and the United States, etc.
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Criticism of nations is an essential part of just about any political discussion. No one called the vilification of Saddam or of Gadhafi, anti-Iraqism or anti-Libyaism, it would have been simply silly to do so. Condemning anti-Semitism may eventually come to be seen as equally silly.
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But in any case, as anti-Semitism is now generally defined, it seems a near certainty that your article on Werrity et al. comes within the definition of anti-Semitism.
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What is bizarre is that the Guardian, and perhaps the rest of the British media, should give a damn about being anti-Semitic, which as that term is now defined, by no means necessarily implies dislike of jews as jews or holocaust denial or any of the reprehensible things that have been called anti-Semitic.

Abandon the lamestream media.

Al Jazeera was to the fore in putting out fake,doctored and inconsequential videos at the start of the Libyan uprising all for the purpose of getting a no fly zone engineered,(and a relentless campaign of bombing), with the help in the UK of the the Henry Jackson Society. Shady outfit. Iraq, Libya – what’s the difference? Regime change is regime change. Why is everybody giving Cameron, Hague and his cronies an easy ride over this, not least the Guardian crowd?

In my opinion, the reaction to your piece is a feather in your cap, and proves quite nicely that you’re a journalist, rather than a propagandist. Just to be sure I get to read it, please have the piece tattooed on your body so that, worst case scenario, it can be read off your corpse in the woods should those psychopaths get hold of you

Joe Templeton

‘It is very sad. You simultaneously harm these people and damage your own credibility. Bluntly, if any part of the establishment has sought to marginalise you, then you play into its hands.’

I have just come out of a battle with members of my family and their solicitor about a document relating to a will. It hadn’t been signed by one of the parties, so the solicitor suggested that I had tried to force someone to an agreement against their will. The adversarial system of UK law unearths the untrue and irrelevant, and impedes justice, rationality and peace.
Keep lying until you convince them you are telling the truth, was the sad policy of the British in Northern Ireland, and they rightly replied, no truth, no justice.
The UK has never considered justice to be relevant to itself, except what it can squeeze from weasel lawyers. I sacked one divorce lawyer on the grounds that it was already bad enough without him making things worse.
So Craig, they don’t like you knowing, speaking, or revealing the truth. The conclusion of this week’s battle was that the said solicitor wrote privately to his client, ‘Of course he doesn’t know that we have found a copy of the document with your signature on it.’
So, Mr Templeman, may I repeat the conversation I had with him?
He said, ‘You’ve been to Oxford and Westminster School, WHY DO YOU PLAY INTO THEIR HANDS by raising these matters while they are under stress?’
‘Because if I don’t it may be too late’ I replied.
‘I realised that the boys I was at school with were deeply unethical at the time, and my opinion of them has worsened over the last 30 years. These same professional minds have bombed Muslim countries for a decade, destroyed civil liberties, and are about to destroy the NHS. They have gone from unethical to corrupt.’

The fact is, that the internet has put a spanner in the works of English establishment lying technique. They are being carried off the pitch by the US and Israel, and if we keep up the pressure, they will admit defeat. That’s what the Zionists want, an excuse for the New Masonic World Order. There is a worse confusion to come after the existing system falls, but our success in destroying this one will give us hope for destroying the next.

Even Gideon Levy of Ha’aretz, considered a moderate and whom I have heard speak, is demonizing Iran.
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http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/11/red-flag-demonization/

Have the Israelis been giving the Turks lessons?
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Shades of the way the Mavi Marmara was dealt with?
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15701025

I hate to appear to be quibbling when there are deeper issues of censorship, which I abhor.
But I do wish we could get away from the words ‘anti-semite’ and ‘anti-semitism’ in the general context of use as here.
Every time it is used you play right into the zionists hands and their victimhood.
You recognise their right, as a specific racial group, to a claim to part of the middle east.
The biggest anti-semites on the planet are the Israelis, few of whom are semites. They are caucasian from the caucasus regions around Georgia and Southern Russia. They are ‘jews’ only by the adoption of judaism some thousand years ago.
By using the word anti-semite – the Israeli occupiers of Palestine’s favourite phrase – you confer a semite legitimacy on them they don’t have and which, the more known it becomes, damages their occupation among those who genuinely believe they do have some genetic or other claim to the Western part of Palestine.
God, of course, never promised a savage tribe of central Europeans any part of that portion of the planet.
We should be stressing that. Virtually every Israeli leader has been born an eastern European because that is what they are.

It is astonishing how a reference to a piece Craig has written about Werrity and Iran is hijacked by obsessives hereabouts who want to write about the Zionist conspiracy or similar bollocks. I haven’t got a handle on the whole Werrity thing yet. There have been suggestions he is gay and so is Fox, who just liked having him around. But then there are ideological suggestions, with Werrity being supposed to be a kind of right-wing Iago, which I don’t understand at all, because if Fox wants to be right wing he doesn’t need a Being There kind of character to make it happen. I don’t know, but Craig’s piece might seem to fall into this kind of paranoid conspiracy area, and I am not saying that is what the piece actually does, because I haven’t seen it, but newspaper executives might just consign it to that category, because they are thinking of the front page news piece they would have to write to back it up.

Maybe Press TV would like to have a last splash before Ofcom shuts their doors. Wikipedia has already got a network set up, I know they are skinned, but how much skinned they are I dare not guess, they might be bale to pay in instalments, have you tried Craig?

Another angle might be the Irish press, with Higgins elected and their boat being subjected to piracy on the high seas, they might just have enough balls to go for it.
If one of them publishes it, paid or not, it is automatically in the domain of all others. Then you would see who has the balls to pick it up and/or who is scared about the hasbara vitriolics that will follow.
It must be a very hot potato, not just here, the fact that the Israeli media totally wiped the story of their news speaks volumnes.
Watch yourself Craig, and have a second copy deposited somewhere, just in case. This website, should you decide to publish on monday, will be the target of all sorts, so MODS beware, a back up of sorts might be a good preventative measure.

Finally, Wendy’s pro active idea is heartening, when will we stop chatting here and get proactive, we create hope and offer debate, but we never think of becoming and forming an alternative to this ramshackelled outfit.

Lets organise a New Alternative politics conference, somewhere cheap and available, somewhere centrally on a mainline, not necessarrily in London, so as many can attend as possible, share lifts and then have a whole days worth of decisive talk, come away with concrete plans for a new direction.

An alliance of Independent candidates, with or without a common goal/ten point policy programme/ a new party, anything that offers the mainstream a new direction that is not nobbled, is what is needed.
This story, if it runs, will rupture the msm and the established party’s, with their resident BICOM infiltrators, it will also provide the momentum for something new and hopefull.

Exited like a coiled spring…

Craig, everyone knew that Cheney wanted to start a war with Iran. That’s why Blair is still going round saying it would be a good idea. It’s the ‘blood price’, or whatever weird rubbish he came up with to justify our adventure in Iraq. There are these weirdoes who want to start a war. If there were some kind of proof that Fox wanted to invade Iran that would be news, undoubtedly. But if it’s just Werrity, it’s just a gay weirdo, or something. I just don’t understand the whole Werrity thing. Was he important, or not?

I’ll have a copy when you get around to releasing it …make it viral.

mickmcc(AT)live.com

mick

OK, so you don’t like press TV, fine, what about the Irish press, would it be worth your while to try there, they have a straight line on the mavi marmara affair and not much crux with Israel’s machinations.
How about sending it straight to the new poet/Presient Higgins at the same time you have got an OK from one of their papers?

Craig – please publish your article here, and take up some of the suggestions for alternative publishers up-thread. We all want to read it (except perhaps Stephen! – and you’re right, he is a troll!).

Re the Guardian – see this website for what happened re the ‘Peterloo Massacre’ group, and what they’re doing now.

http://otmpeterloo.wordpress.com/

#OTMP

If the mainstream media is so pro-Zionist, why does it give live radio time to Syrian Arab springers pleading for NATO air-protection, in other words Libya-style air-bombardment at 7 a.m. this morning on Radio 4?
Like those fish that tuck under the water-stream of sharks.
There is an obvious alliance between Muslim activists and UKUSIS + Saudi, their sweetheart, foreign policy.
There is also an obvious drama of emnity being projected to the UK public between UKUSIS and Iran, their family pet mad dog.
Perhaps the mainstream press know that the Israeli plot to start a war against Iran is as phoney as the recent restaurant assassination plot in the US? What do you think, Craig?
Sometimes rats can get to know that the blue-green grain is bait. Sorry to mix metaphors. They are the ones mixing ideologies, until it is extremely difficult to understand who is on who’s side and why.

I do hope that, by describing the prevarications to which he has been subject, one of Craig’s correspondents in the MSM takes courage and publishes the article. Airing something in one organ of the MSM often results in the others taking an interest in the story, pied-piper like.

If that doesn’t happen, for once I can say, on a Saturday morning, that I’m looking forward to what’s in store next Monday.

You are not “antizionist” ……….. THEY are antiGENTILE.
You are PRO-the-People-They-HATE, which is ALL NON-Jews.
This does not even SUGGEST that you are anti-Jewish, you are just PRO-YOURSELF.
antiGENTILISM is the cause of the mythical “antisemitism”, Humanity did not invent antisemitism, and then wait thousands of years for a Jew to come along, so Humanity could hate him for absolutely no reason. Judaism codified hate of all NON-Jews into their belief system, and worked hard to EARN the contempt of all Humanity.

You can’t publish anti-Zionist stuff on the liberal white media.
This is because liberal whites are shit scared of being accused of anti-Semitism.

Craig it wouldn’t surprise me if even you, have some fear about being called it.
When I read your articles on it, I do get the slight feeling you seem to pull your punches a bit when it comes to Israel as compared to any other country you right about?

Israel is a career destroyer.
You can attack the policies of any other country to whatever level you desire, but touch Israel.
Well, that is a no no, it means you are tainted for life.
And people will fear being associated with you.

Well, Craig,

You have not published my previous comment, at which I am not surprised — but perhaps you took note of what I said and will do some research on the subject yourself if you have not already.

It is a topic that is even more radioactive than the Zionist lobby conspiring to start a war with Iran, and for a good reason: as I said in my previous comment the truth about it undermines the whole existing world order.

Thanks for reading this.

At risk of seeming obsessive, here’s the latest deal between Trader Media and the Guardian. Which looks to me very much like Apax (prop. Sir Ronald Cohen, who accepted the Jubilee Award for services to business in Israel from Netanyahu’s own hand -see above -) bailing out Guardian Media Group as its cashflow problems deepen:
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/08/guardianmediagroup-pressandpublishing
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If it is asserted that the MSM are being pressured to keep the spotlight off Israel, some substantiation is a good idea. I’ve tried to provide this in my posts above. The Guardian has suddenly become pusillanimous on a sensitive subject. Why?
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Follow the money, not the ethnicity.

Laser Eye Surgery, is done privately, over the years the cost of laser eye surgery has fallen heavily, is this an example of private companies doing good. I had an idea that we could test if private companies really could be cheaper than the NHS, why not say if you break your left leg you go to NHS and if you break your right leg you can go private. over time we can monitor which is cheaper, The NHS is good in theory but is very corrupt in the sense it is easy to steal from it.

Dear Craig Murray

I have recently learned that david cameron at the age of 24 went to south africa and helped the Iraeli’s to obtain 9 nuclear weapons is this true, is it is why has not the mainstream media said anything.

Also the fact that an Israeli Arms dealer helped to fund David Camerons leadership campaign.

I notice Muslims, Arabs and Palestinians are not present on that list?
I have also noticed many of the Zionists trolls here are free to insult them without limits, but my counter insults are deleted?

“Have you tried Al Jazeera website?”
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hahaha al jazeera ??? hahahaha
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you might as well send it to fox news these days

“The ridiculous censorship is so endemic that no one dares to even call it censorship, the fear sewn by the zionist overlords has got everyone running for cover.”
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apart from losing ones job .. i suspect its also the inherent threat of losing ones life .. as we know zionists / neo cons arent to be crossed lightly

So are you saying that you are unwilling to examine the forensic and other evidence for yourself? It doesn’t take very long to look at a few scholarly papers. One side of an argument usually sounds convincing until you hear the other side.

For my whole life I believed the conventional view of the Holocaust without question until a few years ago when, after reading about how the historical narrative on the founding of Israel had changed following the release of classified documents in 1998, I took it one step further and started researching what had gone on in Europe that preceded and enabled the founding of Israel.

I notice that you say you don’t allow the “victims” to be “insulted.” What is insulting about my suggesting that people do research on a topic and decide the truth for themselves? Facts are either true or false — they are not insulting; they are what they are. People’s responses to them may vary, but the truth is merely the truth.

And the truth is, apparently, that this topic is the very hottest of potatoes, and you are now experiencing a little bit of the same disquieted feeling that the mainstream media editors experienced in reading your article.

Those editors have, of course, very cogent reasons to think carefully before printing your article — just as you have for not publishing comments normalizing “holocaust denial,” on your site — which is why I wrote that I was not surprised you hadn’t published my first comment.

I’ve abstracted this, omitting commentary which may or may not be justified, and redacting antisemitic tropes, from a conspiracist website which has nevertheless done some interesting research. Is it inaccurate?

In the British press (Sir Ronald) Cohen is portrayed as a wealthy …ish supporter of (Gordon) Brown and New Labour. Cohen’s third wife, the Los Angeles-born Sharon Harel-Cohen, is usually described as a film producer whose father, Yossi Harel, commanded the …ish refugee ship that became known as Exodus in 1947. Her Israeli nationality is seldom discussed.

What the controlled media doesn’t tell us about Sharon Harel-Cohen is that she is an Israeli-American whose father was one of the founding chiefs of the Mossad and Israeli military intelligence until his death in April 2008….

…Sharon Ruth Harel was born in Los Angeles on March 6, 1952. Her mother, a “Julie Berez” married Mossad officer Joseph Hamburger (a.k.a. Yossi Harel) in 1950 while he was stationed in Los Angeles. Harel was, most likely, engaged in the illegal procurement of weapons, ships, planes, and military technology for the Israeli military. The reports that Harel, one of the highest Mossad agents, was studying at UCLA or M.I.T. are neither substantiated nor credible; this was only his cover. Harel also had two sons, whose names are not known to the author.
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But Cohen is no blind Labour backer. He has his snout firmly in the Big Society trough, and is well-known to Cameron:
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http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/news/Article/1082559/Big-Society-Bank-changes-name-appoints-chair-chief-executive/

Three 18.5 Kt weapons, it was:
…young Tory researcher, David Cameron (under the apron strings of Maggie Thatcher), went to South Africa on a sanctions-busting all-expenses-paid trip (paid by ARMSCOR) to Pellindaba, a nuclear weapons facility. David Cameron was accompanied by Sir Kenneth Warren and the purpose of the trip was to purchase three, battlefield ready 20kt nuclear bombs that the Conservatives wanted to use on Saddam in the event he did not toe the line. (Peter Eyre, cited on whale.to)
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And he lost them. Apparently they never reached Iran:
http://freedomnewsnetwork.co.uk/al-qaeda-and-thatchers-missing-nukes-2
Kelly is also mentioned…

Damn. For Iran read Oman above.

@ Wendy,
Ditto, I was roflpmp too.
Some of these posters are a little bit behind the curve in the fast moving world. Say, suffering from inertia, if it cannot be misconstrued as uncharitable.
,
,
,
Craig,
What about the she devil Thatcher hand outs to Israel (whilst she was cutting on all the services, and starting the generational long austerity UK has been under) covering the costs of the development of Israeli nukes in South Africa, and their test blasts thereof in the same continent?
‘
Also not forgetting David Ysrael Davids, the Foreign office chappy whom went to Israel and reported back to Tony Benn the then Minister; all is well, and Israelis are not making nukes. That is before UK supplied the Lithium Six isotopes for the said nukes too.
‘
I love the smell of Democracy, and accountability in the morning.

Well done Craig in reminding your readership that press TV is nothing but a front for those lovable rogues in Iran, and that the Holocaust did actually happen…

“I stopped doing Press TV a couple of years ago. It is important to be aware of whose agenda you are serving, and I have no desire to serve a regime that hangs young gays from cranes in public. Because I do not think it is helpful either for those young gays and countless other innocents to get pulverised by US and Israeli bombs, does not make me a fan of Ahmadinejad.”
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well its not as if we dont do nasty things here or abroad .. we have just finished being responsible for the deaths of upto 50 000 libyans, already some 30 000 afghans and of course possibly a million plus iraqis ..
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the issue is that you want a message to be broadcast but youre not going to do it because of presstv and iran but youre quite prepared for it to be published via bbc/guardian who are as agenda driven as anything else and have been driven by anti iran propaganda regardless of the facts surrounding the iaea reports.
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the issue is the message, of course your message will be manipulated where ever you go .. but dont you expect that some of your readers/listeners will have the intelligence to separate the corporate/state agenda from the facts that you are wanting to send out?
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again you have to have the “george galloway” view – make it clear where you stand .. that they are your views alone .. and drive home the message. at this level then any media outlet is just as much your tool as anyone else and stick to live broadcasts.

“Well done Craig in reminding your readership that press TV is nothing but a front for those lovable rogues in Iran, and that the Holocaust did actually happen…”
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however distasteful and ugly ahmedinejads view is (and he plays the numbers game not that persecution of jews didnt happen) he does have the right to question the official story .. what the guardian and channel4 might call ‘fact check’ not that it didnt happen but that it did happen but not quite in the way as defined in stone. curiously whilst one cannot deny the holocaust it is open season to deny islam, muslims .
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the truth will always expose , just as it has exposed blair, cameron , ahmedinejad and to the point it would appear werrity/fox .. we should all be open to debate .. and criticism .. isnt that what we are told – the way that all muslims should behave?

“TEHRAN (Reuters) – A massive explosion at a military arms depot near the Iranian capital Tehran killed 15 servicemen [Revolutionary Guards] on Saturday and seriously wounded several others, in what officials were treating as an accident …
There were no reports linking the blast to any air strike or other attack.”
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I suppose it could be an accident. But I keep thinking of that $740 million GW Bush got for ‘ops’ inside Iran. I imagine Obama’s budget is even more … If I was an Iranian Joe Soap I’d be suspicious of everything these days.

Nuid,
Giver over mate, the munitions were getting moved around and some w*ankhand has managed to drop some.
Chose where you get your news from.

“I have written a stunning piece… ”

Ha ha.

That statement shows precisely what’s wrong with you.

Passerby,
Drop your “I know everything” tone on this blog. It’s getting tiresome.

“Damn. For Iran read Oman above.”
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im sorry but i refuse to.

I do agree with Wendy – I know two wrongs don’t make a right yet I put my hands up to being a regular contributor to PressTV and the Iranian World Service.
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Pollok
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Those ‘lovable rogues’ in Iran deserve better than your frivolous comment regarding the Holocaust. Do your research first and realise PressTV is not a carriage for propaganda or the fake scenarios we have recently witnessed on al-Jazeera.

It is a great pity that Craig’s piece is not being published by the corporate media (I never use the term mainstream) and that he is not going to get a fee. I read endless entries on the MPs’ register of interests where they declare sums into £thousands. The drive of some of them to increase their wealth is ceaseless. However the readership here is now enormous and there are many new names appearing on the blog.
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If another war is waged it will be added to this horrendously long list which commences in 1900. Little Israel’s name crops up many times since 1948.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_2003%E2%80%932010

“Chose where you get your news from”
.
And what getting news of an explosion outside Tehran from Reuters, via Yahoo, has to do with anything is beyond me. It was a report of a fact. Period.

Some interesting stats on alexa.
eg
Upstream Sites
Which sites did users visit immediately preceding craigmurray.org.uk?
.
% of Unique Visits Percent of visits to craigmurray.org.uk (uniqued daily by user) preceded by a visit to the upstream site.

Upstream Site
30.00% google.com
26.67% twitter.com
23.33% guardian.co.uk
20.00% facebook.com

.
Downstream Sites
Where do visitors go after leaving craigmurray.org.uk?
.
% of Unique Visits Percent of visits to craigmurray.org.uk (uniqued daily by user) followed by a visit to the downstream site.
Downstream Site
28.57% google.com
23.81% twitter.com
19.05% google.co.uk
14.29% facebook.com
14.29% guardian.co.uk
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/craigmurray.org.uk#

Therefore suggest posting it on http://en-gb.facebook.com/people/Craig-Murray/512617429 and linking on twitter as usual {http://twitter.com/#!/CraigMurrayOrg}

“elisabeth angel”.
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Spit it out! I can’t stand all this waffle about how you thought XYZ then realized that ABC was true. If you want to deny the Holocaust then say it out loud and stop being such a mealy-mouthed dissident.
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I really hate this kind of wishy-washyness.

Mark Golding says: Those ‘lovable rogues’ in Iran deserve better than your frivolous comment regarding the Holocaust. Do your research first and realise PressTV is not a carriage for propaganda or the fake scenarios we have recently witnessed on al-Jazeera.

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You really need to be far down the rabbit hole to think that Press TV, an Iranian state-sponsored media outlet is in no way a propaganda station. And yes, I can show you plenty of evidence that Press TV supports Holocaust denial.
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I don’t expect it to concern people like Mark Golding, of course. He’s far down the rabbit hole.

Mary: those stats are very fishy, adding up to exactly 100% like that. They suggest that all of Craig’s visitors come from and go to those 5 sites.

Had to struggle to get over my respect for preeminent publications myself. Sometimes you just end up writing samizdat. Then media rejection is a testament to your integrity. That’s what counterpunch.org, truthout.org, zcommunications.org are for.

Try some Jewish or Israeli blogs – they are much more open and truthful than the MSM

mondoweiss.net
972mag.com
http://www.richardsilverstein.com

I would have suggested Haaretz also, but I think it is now under new management.

Talking of concentration camps and mass murder within, check out the forgotten one.
The one written out of history – a history that bears examination unlike some others.
I write of course of Jasenovac.
Where our christian!! Serb allies died in probably their hundred thousands murdered by the croatians in ways even their Nazi friends considered barbaric and sub human.
Whether this camp is forgotten because the victims were christian and therefore unmemorable and not worth the endless reparations that some demand – including, incredibly a fleet of nuclear capable submarines – the latest blood offering demanded from the German taxpayer – or whether we have no wish to embarrass either ourselves or the Croatians, who knows.
The fact that we attacked Serbia in a frenzied Blairite pushed neo/con neo lib war is sickening.
They were fighting a CIA/MI6/german intel/Bin Laden (yes really!!) created islamic fundamentalist terror organization armed, financed and sponsored by the US and Britain in particular and we bombed the defenceless civilian population from 30,000 feet for 78 days and unrelenting nights.
We bombed and then watched over half a million of our WW2 allies ethnically cleansed by the Nazi supporting Abanians and Croatians.
Why – for the black ops of the CIA drug trafficking cartel who wanted a non Serb Kosovo – now the European base. Quibbles over pipe lines and Caspian oil and for a great fat American base – Camp Bondsteel
And we conveniently write Jasenovac, which played a part in the ethnic tensions of the last conflict, out of history.
If good people had stood up against the completely illegal attack on the Serbs deliberately engineered by Blair and the Clinton admin, there may have been no Iraq,no Afghanistan and no Libya.
The lies told against the Serbs were as phony and grievous as any others told. Sadly, unlike today, they had no alternative way of getting out their side of the story. NATO even took out their only TV station killing nearly 20 civilians – which was actually a war crime. But then NATO can commit the grossest of war crimes with impunity.

Angrysober
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You cannot imagine what I have found at the bottom of your rabbit hole – I’ll tell you we I arrive back from the other side…

Mary,
Don’t you think this site is under attack by the usual suspects?
Searching for what? Twitting about what? and going to Guardian that is the pits of the universe and totally owned.

Yes, we should all speak out against genocide, including today’s genocide of the European peoples through mass abortion, demoralization through mass unemployment, indoctrination in the guise of education, and mass immigration of people differing from the aboriginal population in race, religion and culture.

So, the Stephen reincarnated as a Bear. How befitting.
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RT would propably take the story but as you say might not be the ideal forum. Al-Jazerra is a complete joke.
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Craig, thank you again for being a human with integrity. Don’t underestimate the power of this blog, it will spread. In the misty sea of greedy zionism you shine like a lighthouse.

Mark Golding,
I am right next to you in the rabbit hole, in fact we are legion in the rabbit hole. Why do you even bother answering back? Waste of good energy, don’t you think?

Mark, You cannot imagine what I have found at the bottom of your rabbit hole – I’ll tell you we I arrive back from the other side…

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I have said some nasty things about you in my time and I think I shouldn’t have said such things. But you really need to stop thinking that Press TV is an “independent news station”.

Daisy, tells us all about the war crimes committed in Srebrenizca and Sarajevo, some background on the historic self pity and loathing for all things Muslim, since the 14th century, if you don’t mind, we can cope with the attrocities of both sides here, as long as you are not craving for sympathy.
Its not the hottest potato by a long shot.

We don’t deny the complicity of Blair and Clinton in the bombing from great hight, but the issue is not as clear cut as you make it out.
For you to suggest that Christian death are unmemorable or not worth of reparations is worth debating, but it is disingenous to say the least, too many people died on all sides, because Tito never thought of what followed his carefull balanced Parliament, he could have foreseen what ethnic tension existed and what would happen after his death.

Serbian ego politics, the poetic blood trust invested in Karadjic and the utter violence that was released in these conflicts will make it a sore wound for decades to come.

“I have no desire to serve a regime that hangs young gays from cranes in public”
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That’s an admirable sentiment, but is there not some inconsistency with your readiness to appear on the BBC, thereby serving a regime that just participated in dropping 80,000 tons of bombs on Libyan citizens, thereby killing an estimated 50,000, of whom at least a few must have been gays.

Craig there were Muslims in the camps. It is just the reason they were placed their wasn’t due to religion but ethnicity.
But I am not sure whether the reason people were interned would make much of a difference to the people interned?
Just because gypsies in Dale farm are Catholics, it doesn’t mean the ones to the East are.
Large numbers of Gypsies and Slavs are Muslims.
And even though Muslims are a minority in Poland they were disproportionately higher numbers fell victim to both Nazi and Communist rule that followed it, because of a greater percentage of them were in the Polish army.

Hello Ingo

Seems you have swallowed the MSM and NATO propaganda against the Serbs hook line and sinker.
First I would like you to consider a little closer the Bosnian war situation.
Have you ever taken the trouble to research the best friend of Bill Hillary, Tony and Madeleine in Bosnia?
Alia Izetbegovic.
Radical islamic fundamentalist whose aim was a Bosnian islamic state similar to that of the old Turkish caliphate.
Masses on the internet
Here is just one site.
http://emperors-clothes.com/bosnia/izet.htm
You see from this the now admitted fact that NATO and the Islamics imported hard core islamic fighters from Afghanistan and other islamic territories to fight against the Serbs.
Unlike the draconian punishments handed to the Serbs at the Hague this is the report of a Bosnian given a mere three years for beheading Serb prisoners.
Rather graphic but this is what the Serbs were fighting and the powers that be were lying about to you
http://sheikyermami.com/2008/09/16/the-hague-muslim-commander-gets-only-3-years-for-beheading-serb-prisoners/
As for the siege of Sarajevo this is the testimony of a UN Canadian Gen just recently at the Hague.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/highly-specialised-snipers
The muslims also fired on their own and blamed the Serbs.
As for sebrenica.
I suggest you look behind the NATO Jamie Shea, Blairite propaganda and use some logic.
Sebrenica was a smallish country town. What were 8000 armed muslims doing there?
They were doing the obvious. It was a military base.
They had used this base to commit mass murder and rape around the countryside beyond to ethnically cleanse the Serbia inhabitants. Plenty more evidence of mass beheadings if you want to check and can stomach it.
Many of the interred bodies were dead Serbs. You just don’t get told about them.
Yes Mladic attacked – it was a war. It was a military base that had been killing and brutalizing the Serbian population.
Were the Serbs not entitled to fight back?
There were no way near the casualties claimed. It has been a propaganda millstone to beat the Serbs with for 10 years or more.
I was being sarcastic about the value of christian life.
It makes me realise how easily it is for you to misunderstand certain things.
Serbia was the blueprint for Libya.
An alliance between radical islam and NATO. The creation of an opposition using fundamentalists agents. The importation of radical islamic fighters as mercenaries. The brutally of these mercenaries against the existing population etc. The endless lies about so called crimes against humanity that never happened.
There was no ethnic cleansing by the Serbs. proved by the foreign pathologists post war.
Only the ethnic cleansing of the Serbs.
Something around 300,000 with 20,000 murdered from the Krajina, 250,000 from Kosovo and an untold number from Bosnia.
Oh and by the way check out ‘Racak’.
The now infamous false flag – a collusion of the CIA and the KLA – that enabled Clinton and Blair to attack the Serbs within minutes.

I appreciate Craig’s dilemma propagating essential information; important because ‘Cells that fire together, wire together’ and that is insight (hebbian) for most of us here.
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From the bottom of the ‘rabbit hole’ I thought of BIrCOM as in Britain Iran Communications and Research Centre, just to keep journalists guessing; orchestrating debate is key here – but can it be conceived on a shoestring?

CanSpaccy:
That’s an admirable sentiment, but is there not some inconsistency with your readiness to appear on the BBC, thereby serving a regime that just participated in dropping 80,000 tons of bombs on Libyan citizens, thereby killing an estimated 50,000, of whom at least a few must have been gays.

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You are a complete knob!

Craig there were Muslims in the camps. It is just the reason they were placed their wasn’t due to religion but ethnicity.
But I am not sure whether the reason people were interned would make much of a difference to the people interned?
Just because gypsies in Dale farm are Catholics, it doesn’t mean the ones to the East are.
Large numbers of Gypsies and Slavs are Muslims.
And even though Muslims are a minority in Poland they were disproportionately higher numbers fell victim to both Nazi and Communist rule that followed it, because of a greater percentage of them were in the Polish army.

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No doubt Arsalan is correct about the fact that Nazis persecuted some Muslims. Certainly Hitler had it in for Muslims and Arabs also. However, Hitler had a much bigger bug up his ass about Jews and about Gypsies and the handicapped. Hitler did all he could to wipe out all. Can we just please not give the time of day to the idiots who come here and deny such well-known stuff?

“You really need to be far down the rabbit hole to think that Press TV, an Iranian state-sponsored media outlet is in no way a propaganda station. And yes, I can show you plenty of evidence that Press TV supports Holocaust denial.”
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however presstv also hosts many “hard core” / “hawkish” pro zionists – pro israeli commentators in their discussions etc. so this is not just one way others are given a chance to air their opinions.
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ive not really noted explicit holocaust denial maybe you should provide some of this evidence, i have to say ofcom has not brought any issue of holocaust denial in its complaints against presstv.
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and so what if presstv has an agenda .. name one station that doesnt .. i think as consenting adults we understand the name of the game and understand the rules. they have an agenda and we have an agenda ..
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one has to use the tools available as effectively and as often as possible – especially when one does not have the means to create a broadcasting network – be it fox news or presstv.
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just look at the way our governments in the west have used twitter and facebook to drive the so called arab spring .. under the guise once again of freedom and democracy .. whilst effecting regime change in our image .. “same as it ever was” .

If you have written something above that talked about Zionism, the Holocaust, the Jewish lobby, or Jewish relatives of prominent people, just ask yourselves what you are up to. Why are you so worried about the Jews? What is going on in your lives? The topic was Craig’s article about Iran and Werrity’s involvement in something that has not been spelled out yet. It might be something that involves a Zionist lobby. That is a great story, but it has been turned down by a lot of respectable newspapers. If you think the newspapers are all part of a Jewish conspiracy too, then you really must be mad. Newspapers want to sell newspapers and win awards. That’s the capitalist conspiracy, and believe me it doesn’t just involve Jews. Think on. Don’t wallow in hatred. Enjoy your life, and don’t waste it retailing imaginative tosh. Cheers!

Seeing as Poland 1st person experience counts.
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In the few parks where “Gays” frequent Tehran, it is widely known about such haunts. These do not have any gallows installed nearby to hang the aforementioned mincers, mincing about in these park. I have seen this in 1st person, and further I have been propositioned too in 1st person also, although I declined the offer of the young handsome chap (there was no music, and it was not in candle light).
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Further seeing the most beautiful, auburn haired, slender six feet two high, young chap, with a stunning hind quarters, whom I could fancy too (perhaps it is true, there is a bit of mincer in all of us), going about his work in a shop in the street opposite to the British Embassy in Tehran, whom incidentally did not appear to be hanged or dead.
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In addition, knowing that Iranian law does not have a male on male rape as a crime, and it deals with such cases as “homosexual crimes” (similar to English law; every sexual misconduct is covered by “committing buggery” which flies in the face of the Gay protection brigade, but hey who is counting?), which in turn is ammunition for the likes of Memry et al, to take advantage and portray the rapist as “poor little gay chappy” hanged for being “Gay” . Actually Iran does have a state grant for anyone wishing to undergo a gender change operation, offering this procedure for free.
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Therefore I find the “sanctimonious” abstention from involvement with Press TV a business decision, that is designed to keep a certain person’s name out of the boycotted set of contributors to the “media” in UK. Good luck to him, after all it is fashionable to take a leak on all things Iranian these days.

I could make a far better case for offering this news to be to our irish neighbours, but this is not a race for being the first to publish, nor is it a competition.

I’m sure that press TV will try its best to publish excerts when it happens. The worst thing would be for someone to offer payment and then file it under never published.

Irelands new president its public opinion and support for the freedom waves flotilla, all make for a better publishing climate. As for the BICOM dissed MSM victims, too scared to open this can of worms for fear of being called NAZI’s and anti semitic, they have not realised that their stoic barracking of this story is self defeatist and purile.

Snippets from the ‘rabbit hole’
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Talking about PressTV, recent audience stats show growth to be exponential which makes me realise the window of opportunity to strike Iran is closing. I believe November 30th is a crucial decision milestone and I wonder when Obama is due in the UK to accept Royal Prerogative.

Talk on the sidelines of the APEC meeting in Honolulu reinforces the American dream of cutting China down to size. Pressure has built up on China to contribute money to rescue the developed countries of the EU and the rest of the world, yet, left in the dark on the returns for their investment.
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China and Russia are agreed that modernisation of failing economies is crucial in 2012. I am wondering if the same bullying China has received this year end will be directed at Russia, an economy set to grow quickly next year bolstered by energy revenue and lucrative nuclear power agreements with Iran, a country prepared to preference its oil and gas supplies.

Craig, I did read that bit, and it is an example of the amazingly lax standards applied to this alleged mass murder of six million people that you think what you observed and heard 65 years after the end of World War II is sufficient for you to “know the Holocaust happened from [your] own observation.”

I do acknowledge that you have more “first hand experience” of being in Poland than I, as I have never been there; and that you heard accounts from people and saw what you regard as evidence. But that that experience was “of the actual evidence,” no.

Angry Soba,

I did “spit it out.” Craig censored it.

Elisabeth Angel alleged mass murder of six million people
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Nothing alleged about it,it happened.

More than 6 million – up to 12 million, and I researched it (from primary accounts and documents) until I was sick. Not as sick as people who try and pretend it never happened, however.

you catch me on a point of genuine ignorance. I genuinely don’t know if the Nazis sent Muslims to concentration camps.

Obviously there were some Muslims in the concentration camps; I doubt that there many, probably mainly political prisoners, as Muslim peoples were not among those targetted by the Nazis. I’ve never heard of any Muslim individuals.

On the other hand there was a whole division of Muslim Turkmens in the Wehrmacht. The 162nd Infantry, if I remember rightly. Their paybooks were printed partly in Arabic script (no doubt an anti-soviet move).

From the Nazi point of view, Islam was to be sought as an ally against Britain and the Soviets.

Angry Soba,

I tried again to post my original post, but I guess Craig really doesn’t want it up.

Elisabeth Angel,
You are in good company my response to you has gone awry also.
No truth needs laws and jail sentences to keep it true!

I’m impressed by your automatic moderator. Does it flag “nakba denial”, too?

Elisabeth Angel

You may want to ignore the countless historians who have looked at the documentation and sources in respect of the Holocaust (I could give you countless bibliographies if you wish) – and possibly rely on now discredited (by academics) sources such as David Irving. But in the meantime could you please provide us with your alternative theories as to where the significant Jewish populations pre 1939 of many European cities actually disappeared to – with appropraite supporting evidence of course. My guess is that you evidence for the latter will be somewhat less impressive than that provided by academics for the former.

In the meantime I must now and go and find first hand evidence for the Norman Conquest of 1066 and other past historical events given the new standard of proof that you appear to have set us all.

Of course if anyone wants to look at the evidence surrounding the holocaust then they should be ecouraged to do so as it sheds light on what happens when extreme nationalists and fascists are not challenged. Perhaps as good as place as any to start are the transcripts of the David Irving v Lipstadt trial which can be found here http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/transcripts where both sides put their cases in a trial instigated by Irving – and he lost.

Elisabeth Angel: “For my whole life I believed the conventional view of the Holocaust without question until a few years ago”

I wonder what happened to you a few years ago.

Anyway, denying the holocaust not only makes you sound “non compos mentis”, but in many European countries, you could end up in jail. So here’s a better idea: find out about those heroic people who tried to save people from the holocaust, like the Ten Boom family of Holland.

yep, my previous comment about primary evidence seems to have disappeared, but Corrie Ten Boom is a sobering place to start, Abe.

But why here and now? What is the point of this, except to distract attention from pressing concerns eg
a) how are we going to unite to keep the fledgling wings of progress (care, society, decent representation) flapping
b) (related) how are we going to stop these warmongers

But honestly, the people who would like to silence the truths Craig has encountered by pretending that the ‘whole thing’ never happened or that ‘if it did happen, far fewer people were starved/gassed/tortured/imprisoned without trial/worked to death/disappeared than you would like (?) to think’ are kidding themselves.

Re. the holocaust, not even Eichmann denied it had happened. Don’t know where that puts today’s deniers…probably in the special needs class. Back to the topic:
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Here’s Liam Fox at the 2011 Herzliya conference:
http://thepassionateattachment.com/2011/10/17/liam-foxs-iran-baiting-speech-at-2011-herzliya-conference/
Next year’s theme: “Towards a Different Middle East: Implications for the International Community & Israel”. Wonder who will be there who we know?

Liam Fox’s adviser Adam Werritty facing questions over ‘missing’ £60,000.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/8885995/Liam-Foxs-adviser-Adam-Werritty-facing-questions-over-missing-60000..html

As a journalist myself, I had suspected a link between Werrity, Israel and Iran. Sometimes you get a hunch, if you’re a good journalist. You dig and it stands up, or it doesn’t. I don’t know for sure that there is a link between those evil people who’d like to start World War 3, and a gullible hard right former Defence Minister.

My hunch tells me that the half-arsed “Iran wants nukes” PR botch-up had to be fast-tracked because of the exposure of Werrity/Fox/Israel. Fox wasn’t there to bang the drum when the Iran story came out. Either that or the people behind Werrity took fright and scuttled back into the darkness.

They may well have been planning something to get Britain entirely on side. Even a hint of media curiosity may have caused them to scrap those plans.

It’s all speculation. But my hunch tells me there’s something to it.

Curiously, Atlantic Bridge Inc, the US arm of Atlantic Bridge – Fox’s venture into civil engineering which closed some weeks ago – has now closed its website, too. Last I heard, the IRS were looking at it.
But I think Werritty’s a sideshow, and that Fox himself was got at by US Israel-firsters. My hunch, but then I’m a lousy (ex-) journalist.

The guardian would think again before publishing blair rants judging from all the deleted comments he caused.

I may have posted this before, but meet Sir Ronald Cohen, chairman of private equity firm Apax (sounds like?) which owns 49.9% of Trader Media, having been sold this holding by Guardian Media Group (now holding 51.1%) during a cash-raising exercise. GMG received a £50M half share of a Trader “special” (loan funded) dividend in August. And I think we can date the Guardian’s sensitivity on antisemitic tropes from then.

Here is the man at the 2011 Herzliya Conference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hquKC8XALHw

Try RT.Com or PressTV.ir The mainstream is all in the control of the zionists so they’ll not publish it. Many of the editors would probably love to but know they’d not have a job for long after. Now if the Werrity story had been big enough to breach the taboo of mentioning the zionist control of all western governments and media, then I think the dam would have burst all over. It’ll happen sooner or later and the backlash with not be pretty.

Abe Rene, You wrote:

“in many European countries, you could end up in jail.”

Exactly. Why would that be, I wonder, if the Holocaust is a historical truth that can stand on its merits? And if the people’s belief in it is not extremely important to certain governments?

Wouldn’t debunking the arguments against it be a more reasonable procedure? Assuming, of course, that they could be debunked.

I suppose you know that jailing people for expressing their beliefs is against article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Ok Elisabeth, you’ve freely expressed your opinion. Now bugger off before I bite you.

A vote for Press TV

Press TV in English is an excellent daily source of useful stories that can be found nowhere else. Stories that are enjoyably Anti- the USUK Empire fascists. Who is not Anti- them, these days?

Does Iran have an agenda to counter the relentless pathetically transparent propaganda against them? One certainly hopes so!

Is Press TV the mouthpiece of Iran? Is the BBC the mouthpiece of the USUK Empire fascists? Is Murdoch’s Fascist News fascist? Are the US UK MSM the paid lackeys of USUK fascism? Well, Duh! On all counts.

Is it unfortunate that Iran hang gays from cranes? Is it even more unfortunate that the USUK Empire slaughtered 1.7m Iraqis – directly and indirectly, since 2001? Plus 400k GW1, plus 1m, or 1.5m, by sanctions, including 500,000 children under five? – “We think it was worth it.” – Madeline Albright.

From outside the USUK Empire fascist mindset, those who stood by while the US and UK used the methods of the Nazis to send detainees to be tortured to death – and Craig has reported that none of those sent to Uzbekistan have ever been seen again, so they definitely were either tortured to death, or executed afterwards – deserve everything they get.

Roll on Nuremberg MK II – Mk I for comparison. Tony Bliar first. – Nuremberg Executions of N_zi Leaders for ‘Crimes Against Humanity’ and ‘Crimes Against the Laws of War.’ – Original –

- http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=95d_1206462963

It took thirty years before Pinochet spent a year under house arrest in Britain. Is it likely that the USUK war criminals face The Hague within 20 years? 50:50? Within 30 years? 90%?

Elisabeth Angel: The wiki article “Laws against Holocaust denial” indicates that the prevention of violent attacks against people is the likely motive for those countries in which it is illegal.

As for debunking vs locking people up, If I were a politician and were convinced that the activity of holocaust deniers led to attacks on people or their communal places, I might well consider banning it. As things stand, I would personally not waste too much time on them. But I might suggest that they spend their time more wisely.

Freedom of expression has never been absolute; incitement to murder, libel and disclosing classified information are all illegal in the UK. The famous American jurist Oliver Wendell Holmes said that shouting “Fire!” in a corwded theatre is not a legitimate exercise of the freedom.

I would advise you for your own good to abandon this nonsense now, and instead contemplate the virtue of people like Corrie Ten Boom, Saint Maximilian Kolbe, or Viktor Frankl. All three experienced Nazi death camps as inmates.

Technicolor:
“But why here and now? What is the point of this, except to distract attention from pressing concerns eg
a) how are we going to unite to keep the fledgling wings of progress (care, society, decent representation) flapping
b) (related) how are we going to stop these warmongers”

Is that to me? My first post, which was not and will not be posted, talked about that. I am convinced that bringing the historical truth to light is the key to stopping the warmongers.

It’s not rocket science: according to Craig’s own statement, his article deals with a Zionist conspiracy to start a war with Iran. Well, a great deal of Zionist power — particularly any shred of moral authority they have left, is owing to the “H” (– trying not to trigger the bots ) narrative.

Now, if that narrative is true — well it is still misused, as Norman Finckelstein (an”H” believer, BTW) makes clear — but if were found to be a massive criminal fraud that has sucked up a trillion or so dollars and enabled the theft of a country from its inhabitants with the accompanying genocide of many of them — and the masses found out how they had been scammed — then things could change very fast.

But it is not just the big “H”(as I type this I am rapidly losing faith that this post will be published) — the whole commonly accepted WWII narrative is basically a lie, in that there was a Zionist conspiracy to start a war with and destroy Germany. It’s a continuum, you see. How about WWI? Do you really think it simply “broke out” because someone happened to shoot the Archduke of Austria? or was it too a “conspiracy”? Of course it was.

The more people understand that all war is just planned mass murder for the profit of those who pull the strings, the fewer people will be willing to fight those wars.

Technicolor wrote:
“But honestly, the people who would like to silence the truths Craig has encountered by pretending that the ‘whole thing’ never happened or that ‘if it did happen, far fewer people were starved/gassed/tortured/imprisoned without trial/worked to death/disappeared than you would like (?) to think’ are kidding themselves.

And you know this how?

I agree with Craig that Holocaust denial, and all genocide denial, is horrible. But if you made a museum of genocide, the Nazi holocaust would occupy a very small booth compared to everything else.
A couple of things are puzzling me though about Craig.
Q.1/ If D.Cameron went to S.Africa at 24 in 1990, how come C.Murray didn’t know the purpose of the mission either through personal contacts or in his official role until 1993. I smell something fishy about that even if it was something as innocent as fish-net tights.
Q.2/ Those up to 200,000 UK special troops in Libya plus mercenaries the Daily Telegraph reported about. Were they doing Tory-party special-links-with-Africa oil-installation protection duties, to stop AlQaida from interfering with matters that didn’t concern’em? Like 1990 Cameron, or were they part of the anti-Gaddafi campaign?
Our man has shown that he has Tory sources which as a professional journalist he can’t reveal. At some stage, if the Tories continue down the proxy genocide path of Libya, he is going to have to put the Tories into the same bin as Blair and Brown. Is that going to be difficult for him? I told my Tory friends to f. off irreversibly in 1990. Good riddance to them.

Stephen
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please provide us with your alternative theories as to where the significant Jewish populations pre 1939 of many European cities actually disappeared to
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Do you actually know what you’re talking about here, Stephen? Do you have the figures to hand? The difference between pre- and post- Jewish populations is one of the points most often used in questioningthe scale of the holocaust – I’ve never seen it used in support.

There’s an ongoing massacre of Gaddafi-supporting patriots in Libya which is likely to reach the scale at which people start crying ‘genocide’, and which may have its genocidal aspect, given the tribal and racial divisions.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29695.htm

I stumbled across this preposterous blog. I can’t decide whether it’s a neo-nazi black op to undermine the struggle against anti-semitism, or just some rather dim people who don’t see the logical conclusion of what they’re doing.

http://cifwatch.com/

Pony Chase John

Cifwatch is just another silly pro Israeli group that runs around the internet claiming antisemitism. Bit of a joke really. I just had a look at their website and it says that the Guardian got the so called Honestreporting 2010 award for dishonest reporting. Honest reporting is yet another pro Israeli pressure group,they are based in Israel. They featured in the Dispatches report from a few years ago about the Israeli lobby in the UK and how 80% of Tory MP’s are basically in their camp including Cameron. You can watch it here.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23997.htm

I should say that the Labour party are pretty much pro Israel as well,it is not only the Tories.

How come frustration at the zionist bias in fleet street has led to an argument about the holocaust?
Let’s just call it WW II. There were many more victims than just jews.
Let’s get back to getting Craigs piece published.
Have you tried the Herald in Scotland ? Or is that also a zionist rag ?

erm…on the basis that one jew is worth 1027 palestinians, if 6 million jews got hitlered, that equates to almost the entire human race, if counted as palestinians. is that why they harp on about WWII so much?

Really the Middle East is insoluble without radical cultural change and allowing time for a generation or so to pass.
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The root cause is this:
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All male Jews and Moslems are circumcised, or, in plain English, they have mutilated genitalia. They all feel insecure in their manhood. They all feel violated. They must compensate for this with a heightened tendency to be aggressive.
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Stop the barbarism of circumcision and within 30 years they’ll be at peace.
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Sorted.
.
P.S. This probably explains the Yanks too.

Something else of great horror to think about on Remembrance Sunday when the emphasis is on our losses in war. This was terrible.
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In this book, Mohammad Gholi Majd argues that Persia was the greatest victim of World War One and also the victim of possibly the worst genocide of the twentieth century. The author based his research on the great famine in Iran on documents and reports of the US State Department archives as well as from news and information taken from newspapers printed in those years, especially the Ra’d and Iran newspapers in Persia. Majd quotes the American Charge d’Affaires in Tehran at the time, William Smith Murray, has having claimed that a third of Persia’s population died from a combination of famine and disease. He also used as sources the memoirs of the British officers and commanders who were present in Persia (Iran) during the World War I. The book reflects on the direct role that the interventionist British and Russian forces played in the famine and subsequent mortality in Iran during the World War I.

In large, Majd blames the British who, after the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917, were the controlling power in Persia. Local transportation was taken over by the British for the transport of war materials, isolating farmers from their customers inside Persia. At the same time, Majd claims that significant amounts of food were confiscated by the British to supply British troops both within Persia and in the region.

Majd’s conclusion is that, unknown to most, one of THE major genocides of the twentieth century occured in Persia during and immediately after WW1. In general, one can believe the approximate accuracy of his sources – there was a major famine and millions died – whether it was one third or one half of Persia’s population is purely an academic argument – deaths were literally in the millions and the impact on Persia was enormous. However, “genocide” assumes the deliberate and wilfull killing of large numbers of non-combatants. That the British would deliberately undertake this is not believable and in this, Majd’s argument is not credible, it’s more of an emotional response. Which is understandable – picture in your mind if a third to a half of the US population had died off in WW1 from famine which was made worse by a foreign occupation under the same basis as happened in Persia. What would your reaction be?
.
The whole review is here.
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Famine-Genocide-Persia-1917-1919/dp/0761826335

It is fascinating, is it not, that this thread, which originally referred to what is, in essence, whistle-blowing and potentially very important revelations concerning statecraft and governance in today’s Britain, appears to have been swamped – or at least, a prodigious attempt has been made at swamping – by what one can only describe as a load of auto-piloted anti-Semitic garbage, triggered mainly by ‘new names’ (and some usual suspects), to which regular commentators then have responded. I completely share Technicolour’s, and also I think Craig’s, frustration at all this. I would suggest deletion of all of the irrelevant posts, to clean-up the thread and keep it focussed. Are the spambots insufficient? It seems that someone, somewhere has gone into overdrive. You must be onto something, Craig. Get that article out ASAP, man, anyway you can!

This image has been posted by someone on medialens as the new Italian flag. Another says it looks very much like the Greek flag to him.
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http://insideireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/GoldmanSachsStory.jpg

Some hope here that the mindset in the US is changing and that the young people are seeing through the propaganda and lies.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jyp-3ulZmQI

Suhayl

You find it fascinating but you want it deleted? What is this, Catholic guilt?

PS Not sure which you mean – CM already said his thing caught the holocaust stuff he didn’t want. My first was frivolous, granted, but my second is a damn serious thesis!

No irony then. Marr has one of the warmongers from the last decade, Condoleeza Rice and one from this decade, General David Richards, as guests on his programme this morning.
.
Richards speaking three days ago.
‘“What you did in Libya and the way you have responded over the last few months have been in the best traditions of the Service; not only have you done great work operationally but you have broken new barriers professionally, particularly with the Apache.
.
“The name of HMS Ocean is held in high regard back in the UK and you should be proud, and deservedly so, of what you have achieved.”
.
Apache attack helicopters from 656 Squadron Army Air Corps were deployed in Libya via HMS Ocean.
.
Their crew carried out missions, hitting military vehicles, installations and communications equipment.’
.
http://bfbs.com/news/worldwide/head-armed-forces-praises-hms-ocean-53246.html

Come on Craig: out with it before your tattie goes cold…

Ah, the hypocritical irony of the muddled-head Liberal !

Craig is complaining about nobody being willing to publish his “stunning “ article because of the possible fear of being accused of anti-Semitism by Zionist supporters, and yet as the same time does not want PressTV to publish his article because of the fear of being accused of supporting homophobia ! !

As already pointed out, the granting of respectability & legitimacy to pro-Government media organisations, that acted and still act as blood-soaked pro-war propagandists, doesn’t seem to be of equal concern to Craig; if it’s the persecution of homosexuals that are only of such paramount concern, not mere genocides, then perhaps we can expect him now to boycott all US media;

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=245358

The good things about some posts here is that I get to know more about the people and issues in news after an event, but the people causing the troubles seem to be ahead since they all have access to ministers diaries.

Fully agree with Ken, there is no need to have this thread contaminated with Holocaust deniers. I find it incredible that those who pursue the truth, as they profoundly claim at every step of their argument, then can deny that guilt, racial hatred and callous organisation carrying it out.

I can’;t deny it, because as a young german barely 9 years old, we were ‘visiting’ a Concentration camp near neuengamme, samml but abasolutely disgusting, the stench of burning bones permiating the walls of a dank stable type building, it was our day out in the countryside, an allied instruction to all Germans to have their de nazification applied, good and proper.

It is this single event which has moulded itself into my brain, something that is undeniable. Despite being born after the war, despite this pathetic attempt to make us feel guilty for our fathers horrible mistakes, I feel that a new page has been turned, that we should strive not to let it happen again, but it did, in Cambodia, Laos, in ex Yugoslavia, on both sides and in Libya, now.

Thanks for the hearteneing video of a more moral moderate young jewish community, Mary, a community which rejects being indoctrinated with racialist messages, who had enough of the incessant superiority complex that guides zionists and their actions.

lets concentrate on why they cannot/ dare not inform their thinkling public of the Fox Werrity scandal? My feeling here is that it was a true conspiracy, here only known by those high up in the CFI, who knows maybe some LFI, but in Israel, its seemingly was not known by the Likud cabinet, merely a paln amongst many.

What makes this scenario so viable is Netanyahu’s mental state, his obsession with WW” and churchil, he, Barak and Liebermann seem to think they can bowl over their own country and play up to the military armourers of the world, whilst paving the way for our gloabl oil giants, etc.

Just a thought

Craig, believe it or not, you are getting positive plugs at the Telegraph – at least in the comments:
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/8885995/Liam-Foxs-adviser-Adam-Werritty-facing-questions-over-missing-60000..html#

This assessment of the vital role of antisemitism in the Zionist project for Israel is worth bearing in mind:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/zionismpromotes.cfm
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“Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.”
{Theodore Herzl}

Komodo, you might be interested in this article from 2006 which gives a chronology of the depopulation agenda instigated primarily by the Rothschild proxies, the Rockefellers:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_rockefeller09.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/8886543/Israel-refuses-to-tell-US-its-Iran-intentions.html

When will Bliar ever be silenced? When creeps like Marr stop interviewing him I suppose.
.
Former prime minister Tony Blair has said the collapse of the euro would be “catastrophic” – and said Europe must get behind it.
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Mr Blair told BBC One’s Andrew Marr Show he hoped and believed it would not collapse, but European leaders faced “very difficult and painful” choices.
.
A “long-term framework of credibility” was needed, he said, which included “strong fiscal co-ordination”.
.
David Cameron says the UK is “preparing for every eventuality” over the euro.
/…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15711400

That’s another nail in the Euro coffin then, Mary

Henry, Son of Turk: The process, not the content, is fascinating.

Scouse -
Thank you, but I don’t buy it. Power elites control people, sure, that’s how they gain power. On of their methods is, obviously, “dialectic”…as I recall this is also the method of choice for Marxists seeking power for the people…but it is very far from being the only approach, and the Rothschilds are very far from being the only elite.
In any case, there are far too many people on the planet, the ecosystem is collapsing and resource wars are escalating. Who is to say the Rockefellers aren’t right? (assuming there’s any truth in your assessment)

As if Blair knew more than a Sun reader on sedatives about the economy.

Komodo, it is Dr Cuddy’s assessment. However, the alliance of Rothschilds and European royalty dates back to the early 19th century.

Regarding depopulation I suspect the most pressing issue is what started out as Project Cloverleaf – essentially “geo-engineering” in the stratosphere, ostensibly to prevent global warming through reflecting UV back into space with nano particles of Aluminium and other heavy metals. Of course, Monsanto have patented Al resistant GMO seeds – there’s a dialectic for you.

See What on Earth are they Spraying?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybWku-lJe6I

Elisabeth Angel: “..Zionist conspiracy..”
Comrade Censor Craig, I think you just might have some work to do.

The truth is that Germany set up a racist Nazi regime which systematically ill-treated Jews, stripped them of their rights as citizens and finally carted them to concentration camps. A similar fate awaited Communists, homosexuals and the feeble-minded or disabled. In addition, Nazi Germany because of the sole decision of Hitler and his assiatsnts, invaded Austria, then Czechoslovakia, than Poland (despite warnings); the last which triggered WW2. In 1942 began the Final Solution. I have had the honour once to exchange correspondence with a holocaust survivor, Eva Kor, one of twins who were treated as experimental animals by Mengele. Her sister sadly eventually succumbed to the bugs that she was forcibly infected with. I have once attended a talk given by a holocaust survivor at Birmingham University. I wonder, Ms Angel, how many holocaust survivors have you actually met or corresponded with personally?

SS: And if you remove the content, will the process still be visible?

Scouse-
Aluminium is not a heavy metal.
And we’re not so worried about UV as IR.
That aside, I’m sorry to say that almost any mad alternative to actually rationalising our energy use is under consideration – all of them with completely unpredictable knock-on consequences (more predictable were the rapid evolution of weeds resistant to the glyphosate sprayed on glyphosate-proof GM crops, and Monsanto’s denials of the possibility that this would happen). But this is not a conspiracy of what David Icke would call the reptiles in charge -I disclaim any relationship – but the logical consequence of capitalism. No superior organisation is required. It’s self-organising. And it’s chaotic, in the mathematical sense of the word.
Also, it’s easy to point out what’s gone wrong. The blogosphere is full of attempted descriptions of this. But where, in a chaotic system, do you apply the necessary negative feedback? My suggestion is to encourage a culture in which anyone above a certain income – say 2X the mean – is regarded as the selfish and greedy sod that he is. Peer-group pressure. Dialectic.

Abe Rene: “The truth is that Germany set up a racist Nazi regime which systematically ill-treated Jews, stripped them of their rights as citizens and finally carted them to concentration camps. A similar fate awaited Communists, homosexuals and the feeble-minded or disabled.”
.
What a shallow decontextualised analysis.
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Are you totally unaware of the Eugenics movement in the UK and US, the Rockefeller funding of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institutes, the fact that the Nuremberg Laws where known as “the American Laws” in Germany at the time?
.
Who on earth do you think funded Hitler and his NSDAP?

Oh, dear. What the conspiracist analysis of the role of the Rothschilds ignores is that historically, governments, including the “European monarchies”, have always borrowed to finance their internecine wars, their infrastructure projects, and their magnificent lifestyles. They have borrowed more than they can repay. And they have borrowed from banks, which have learned to leverage the loans from their deposits. The Rothschilds merely took advantage of their greed and stupidity. Today, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and HSBC (eg) profit from the same market. The easiest solution to the dominance of the finance industry is to stop borrowing. Which means not spending the next decade’s income on stuff we can’t afford. It’s not their fault. It’s ours.

‘Henry’: Craig asked people to refrain for posting garbage and deleted garbage as far as he could. Now you seem to be perpetuating it. Now, we’ve seen the process quite enough on this blog, let’s consider that the content would best be deleted. I will not collude further, Alfred, in this trolling/spamming. Yours sincerely,’SS’.

abe rene: “..Zionist conspiracy..”

What’s wrong with that? That’s what Craig’s “hottest potato” article is about, according to him.

As for the rest of your post — as I said, I used to accept all that too. I don’t know what talking to a survivor has to do with it. “Eyewitness” testimony is the least reliable evidence, for many reasons — and when people receive money and other rewards for their testimony, of course, it becomes even more problematic. That is why forensic evidence is so important. If something couldn’t have happened, it didn’t happen. That’s the way the physical universe works.

You seem to be trying to persuade me to reject what my logical mind tells me, based on serious research that I did with no “anti-Semitic” preconceptions (my boyfriend at the time was Jewish).

All that I am suggesting is that people do their own research, and examine, using their own God-given logical minds, sources that claim to prove a different conclusion. That is absolutely the only way to judge whether their claims have merit or not — believe it or not.

And the only reason I am suggesting that they do so is that, in my opinion, it is a very important topic, given what is going on in our world today.

Craig,

Where could I obtain a copy? It would be interesting to read to see where you are

If you can help, please let me know

Thank you

Komodo, I used to think the same as you in my teens and twenties. Having climbed the corporate ladder, then run my own business and studied history, I disagree that capitalism per se is the issue
.
The issue is the Central Banking system – the issuance of currency at interest by a small private elite. I can recommend The Creature from Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin or the video (on youtube, google etc.), Money As Debt.

First part in particular of this recent interview with former CIA Bin Laden chef Michael Scheuer is on topic:

http://bit.ly/u0Wy2k

“…historically, governments, including the “European monarchies”, have always borrowed to finance their internecine wars”
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Incorrect. They used to impose special taxes for this purpose and these usually didn’t go down too well. It was the creation of the Bank of England and the City of London under William III that got over this problem.
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NB Governments do not actually “borrow” in the normal sense of the word. The banks do not have all those billions to lend. They simply create the money out of thin air and hand it over. Then they charge interest in perpetuity on the amount created. Gizza job. I could do that.

“Israel has refused to reassure President Barack Obama that it would warn him in advance of any pre-emptive strike on Iran’s nuclear capabilities,”
.
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nonsensical, its an attempt to make the US mere bystanders as those rogues in israel carry out their dastardly plan.
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Panetta has given the go ahead , the IAEA report was meant to be the smoking gun .. one which no one is buying into other than the UK government. best assessments suggest a strike in the next 2 months.
.
.

those dastardly people at presstv report:
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UN slams Britain’s torture cover-up
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“The United Nations has slammed Britain’s attempt to “cover up abuses and encourage recurrence” of torture by refusing to publicize the results of an inquiry into London’s complicity in torture. ”
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http://www.presstv.ir/detail/209857.html

SSaadi
Try a good laxative and a warm bath. What am I perpetuating and how? Our wee dialogue? It takes two to Cha Cha Cha.

Cheerio Silvio. Hello Mario.
Change? What change?
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http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/bef2009/speakers/mario-monti/index.html
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How many times do we see the name of Goldman Sachs in a biography?

Scouse -

The issue is certainly the central banking system. But it’s susceptibility does not depend on its ownership, whether the elite is unitary or distributed.
Remember when Cameron suggested we all pay off our credit cards? And how very speedily he was corrected -not by the Left, but by the Right? It would have been a disaster for retail banking if those able to had cleared and shredded their cards, and those unable to had declared bankruptcy.
Funny, I was much more prone to believe in conspiracies when I was younger. Nowadays, I stick to the overt, out-and-proud ones like Herzl’s Zionism. Yes, a lot of bankers are zionists. But that’s not why they do banking.

MJ, do you want references, or can I just tell you you’re wrong? I didn’t say banks were the only source of funding for profligate governments, and you may find this informative if we can get away from the Rothschilds for five seconds…
http://www.economist.com/node/347333
All the familiar tricks are very old-established.

And I don’t think I said that the money lent had any value except that it would ultimately return – with real tangible assets attached – to the banks. As you say, gizzajob. And I really must get a life, too.

Goldman Sachs is the new Rothschild, Mary….

“I didn’t say banks were the only source of funding for profligate governments”
.
I know. You said governments have always borrowed to fund wars, which was the inaccuracy I was addressing. I didn’t mention the Rothschilds. Another poster perhaps?

Getting back to censorship and regarding my first post on this thread re the article by Gilad Atzmon deleted by the Guardian:

This Is How Israel Runs The British Press

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29642.htm

I tried to post the same comment on an article in the Daily Mail entitled:
State must not regulate the Press, says Guardian editor at Orwell lecture

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2060604/Guardian-editor-Alan-Rusbridger-state-intervention-press-publications.html

preceded by the statement: ‘What a hypocrit this man Rusbridger is ‘.

It was, of course, not accepted. Oh, the irony!

By the way, Mr Murray, to claim FIRST-HAND experience of the Holocaust you would have to be older than I am, and I’m 73, hence the 38 on my moniker.

Scouse Billy: how does omitting the fact that the Nazis were influenced by American eugenics make their crimes less culpable and my analysis “shallow”? One could accuse you of even greater “shallowness”, for failing to mention the role of the precedent of the Armenian holocaust in Hitler’s thinking.

Elisabeth Angel: eyewitnesses are pretty strong evidence in cases of murder. This was mass murder. The fact that you cannot affirm that you have talked to such people means, not only that that your investigation is seriously lacking, but that you are vulnerable to being led astray by fallacious arguments and outright untruths. In this country (UK), peddling such nonsense will not get you into jail. But don’t do it in Vienna. As for me I wont waste time reading such trash. I would sooner talk to Craig Murray who has been to Warsaw and may have seen the former death camps with his own eyes (?) , not a sight for the squeamish even now, I imagine.

Craig, I disagree that taking on the Zionist lobby head-on is impossible. I have tried for over twenty years to convince the Arab (Muslim and Christian) and the Muslim (Arab and non-Arab) within my limited capacity that the most urgent and immediate need for us is to establish a strong, consistent and persistent lobby in Washington that will expose the lies, deceptions, and the war criminality nature of Israeli Jews and their diehard Christian and Jewish supporters. Such a lobby would cost around ten million dollars to fund and will employ full time, salaried lobbyists of the highest caliber. Some will be Jews and I know many Jews who have a greater passion for peace, justice, and equality as well as the liberation of Palestine from the control of zionists than most Arabs and Muslims that I know. Among those Jews are the most admirable and respectable anti-zionists who deplore and condemn Israeli atrocities against the Palestinians, Lebanese, and those like yourself you expose their cruel and evil behavior and actions even though such criticism and condemnations are quite appropriate. Zionist get away with their lies and the control over their critics only because we allow them to do so. Imagine a group of men and women that will not lobby on the basis of threats (political candidates, newspaper editors and the like), intimidation, coercion, and so forth but with honesty, truth, and verifiable facts. Congress, the departments of State and Defense, and even the Oval office will be exposed for their sheep-like acquiescent to their demands that fly in the face of American interests. I shall stop here even though there is much more to say. How did I fare with my efforts to establish such a lobby? It is a rhetorical question.

Abe Rene, you stated, “The truth is that Germany set up a racist Nazi regime which systematically ill-treated Jews, stripped them of their rights as citizens and finally carted them to concentration camps.”
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I have in no sense dismissed the culpability of the Nazi’s but your assertion “Germany set up…” is ignoring the historical, geo-political context: perpetuating the all Germans as scapegoats demonology – all well and good as propaganda during WWII but not today.

Dear Craig

You have my sympathies – but at least t you weren’t completely ignored. I just wrote a piece on the disastrous state of the French national education system and sent it to about 5 newspapers. Apart from one acknowledgement of receipt, I have heard nothing from, any of them, let alone a clear response as to whether they will publish or not. Why torture, imprison or harrass people when you can simply ban them from being heard?

Mike. If you consider that the CIA sent a Russian spook batting for both sides, that they bent over backwards trying to give the blueprints of a nuclear bomb to an Iranian representative in Vienna in 2000, although it had major faults built into it, it was a rigged blueprint designed to sent their research into a cul de sac, then this falsely created scenario as ‘nuke mad Iran’ falls to pieces, it is a construct at worse.

My hunch as an ex press officer tells me, that such come ons have been undertaken to justify a later ‘hunch’ that Iran is seeking a bomb and want to use it to destroy Israel, yawn.

I’m not denying Irans ability to reverse engineer and simulate and iron out these flaws in the plans, I would not even deny them such capabilities, after all we all have lived with Indian and Pakistani nuclear weapons for some time, two countries at continuous loggerhead, this apparent paranoia is not the reason for going to war, its just a piffly pre text.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/jan/05/energy.g2

Exxons latest divisive contract, trying to split the Kurdish oil fields from its central Iraqi framework, is creating a massive rift, division and anger, contiinuing the chaos theory that has changed the geostrategic balance in favour of power and money in the ME, it is against democratic consent, it counts for as much as a war as it skewers Kurdish and Iraqi relations and puts them on a spit.

All this shows what the end goal is, the wholesale takeover of oil resources by the cheapest eans possible regardless of who owns it, abstracts it; sovereeign borders don’t mean a hoot to them, and its what Iran is being primed for, same old same old.

They are now pressurising Obama, making this artificial hatred an election issue. The world is turning nasty, so lets have this out and published somehow.
So we have to see any Fox Werrity mongering in such a context, I would call them the reps from hell, their brazen jetting round the globe shows how much western, not just US foreign policy is led by the nose by the bermuda triangle of jewish influences at the heart of our Governments resolve, their whole commercial connections and hasty retreats from charitable organsiations they belonged to, all this is the tip of an iceberg.

we will see what makes it melt…

“I know. You said governments have always borrowed to fund wars, which was the inaccuracy I was addressing.”
.
I said :”historically, governments, including the “European monarchies”, have always borrowed to finance their internecine wars”
.
You said: “Incorrect”.

I did not say “ all governments everywhere…” and I did not say “…governments have exclusively funded their adventures by borrowing..”. I cited the Medicis, who financed the Papacy as well as individual governments in just the way I described. You have produced nothing substantial to contradict what I actually said, and I conclude that you are simply trolling.
You did not mention the Rothschilds, agreed. And I don’t think I was talking to you about them, but to Scouse Billy and Mary.
Context is all.

I didn’t mention the Rothschilds. Another poster perhaps?

Returning joyfully to the topic, this is worth a look:
http://paulflynnmp.typepad.com/my_weblog/2011/11/atlantic-bridge-too-big-to-hound.html
Questions that were not asked about Atlantic Bridge,

Commemorating the “Day the Guns fell Silent”. “Let this Silence be a Scream for Peace.”
.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27641

Scouse Billy: Weimar Germany was a democratic country which democratically voted in the Nazi regime. That made the country as a whole guilty, even though individuals resisted it at great riak, for example Pastors Niemoler and Bonhoeffer and Sophia Scholl, as you are doubtless aware. It is like saying that South Africa (white South Africa specifically) elected and set up the apartheid regime, even though Joe Slovo and Donald Woods opposed the regime.

I sure Israel is in the process of voting measures to restrict funding to organizations its doesn’t agree with, or as they explain reducing political interference from outside foreign entities.

guess AIPACs influence in Washington is similarly going to be withdrawn (you think?)

Abe Rene, I also asked who funded the NSDAP!
.
Good night

Abe Rene,
Weimar Germany was a democratic country which democratically voted in the Nazi regime. That made the country as a whole guilty,
,
Application of same logic, would stand every Israeli guilty of war crimes, and genocide. Your histrionics somehow don’t include the current levels of violence and force application on Palestinians, so far as staging a medieval siege on Gaza, and kidnapping anyone who attempts to breach the siege.

Israel seeking to upgrade its nuclear weapons capabilities

Meanwhile back at the ranch Israel seeking to upgrade its nuclear weapons capabilities How is about that for a bunch of unstable aggressive warmongers suffering from Masada complex (as in Jones Town, and Waco Texas Branch Dravidian)?
,
Amano probably never reads anything other than the stuff he is told to read, and we all know that Liar Bibi (as per Sarkozy and Obama) who keeps supplying Amano with little notes to read. So Amano will not be reporting on Israel seeing as he has not read this article. There again Israel is not even a signatory to NPT, but does supply “intelligence” to IAEA about the signatories of NPT.
,
This is the stuff of comedy in a sane world.

Report: Israel seeking to upgrade its nuclear weapons capabilities
,
or this
http://goo.gl/6AkEI

the daily mail of all places:
.
.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2060753/I-wept-comforted-soldiers-maimed-Iraq-How-I-tell-Blairs-just-war-illusion.html

This article sounds like the bubonic plague. It renders editors “out to lunch”, “on vacation”, or otherwise out of action. Asia Times might publish it.

I liked the style of this poem on Counterpunch, its content and its message. I look at Poets Basement there every weekend.
.

To Supporters of President Obama
by JOHN HALLE
.
I have a proposal for you.
You will cease sending me
Promotional materials for his campaign
Trumpeting what you claim to be
His magnificent record of progressive accomplishment.
I will not respond with links to point by point rebuttals
To virtually every one of these supposed “victories”
Or with broadsides exposing the record of this administration
In trampling civil and constitutional rights,
Perpetrating war crimes and enabling environmental pillage
And other outrages too numerous to mention here.
Let us agree to no longer talk about our first African American President
And turn the discussion to a happier subject:
How we will occupy, destroy the credibility of, and, where necessary
Prosecute and eventually incarcerate
The criminal Wall Street banker class and its enablers
In the media, academia and government.

.

John Halle teaches music theory at the Bard College Conservatory. He is a former Green Party Alderman from New Haven’s ninth ward. He can be reached at: halle@bard.edu.

guardian deletes:http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/nov/11/tony-blair-democracy-friendly-religion?commentpage=all#start-of-comments
.
.
“There will be no peace in our world without an understanding of the place of religion within it.”
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and yet blair justified his personal reasons for iraq (after the deceits of WMD had been laid bare) , the deaths of up to a million people, on the basis of his christianity and his relationship with his god.
.
.
“Then there are those that insisted that as the Arab revolution knocked over long-established regimes and created movements for democracy, so those societies’ religiosity would take second place to the new politics. It hasn’t happened.”
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the arab revolution has not knocked over long estqablished regimes, it has merely changeed the face of those regimes, largely led by US / UK Govt use of facebook and twitter as a ploy to instil the idea of people power under the guise of freedom and democracy. it is not about religion but about our corporate, political and economic needs.
.
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“The virus of terror based on a perversion of the proper faith of Islam shows no signs of abating. ”
.
and what about the virus of terror created by neo conservatism, that perversion of humanitarian intervention into one that resolves itself as self empowerment and financial rewards.
.
.
“But it is not only the acts of terror that should alarm us. It is the extremism that promotes persecution of religious minorities, too.”
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the west has been responsible for over one million deaths mostly muslims, with minimal loss to our christian communities it is curious how we determine their terror but have no perception of the terror we wield.
.
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“The challenge is that much greater where human dignity is not respected and freedom of religion denied. This results in a general oppression of people of faith. It means we must support Muslims in Gujarat, India; non-Orthodox Christians in Moldova; Bahai’s in Iran; Ahmadis in Pakistan; all Christians in north Africa; Hindus in Sri Lanka; Shia in several Sunni majority countries, and other places.”
.
but not palestinians, or muslims in the UK who were and continue to be sacrificed in the media so that we can continue to asset strip muslim nations, not only of their dignity, culture but their resources.
.
.
“I offer here a third way.”
.
bomb afghanistan, bomb iraq, bomb iran …
.
.
“At the same time our voice cannot predominate over the basic democratic system that functions equally for all, irrespective of those of faith or of none.”
.
but the fact is your voice did usurp democratic systems.
.
.
“It is about free media; freedom of expression; and about freedom of religion. It is also about an independent judiciary and the rule of law”
.
and yet under labour all of these facets of the state are increasingly controlled by the state , the independence of the judiciary and rule of law was an anathema to the nu labour choristers
.
.
“If democracy is to function effectively therefore, religion itself has to embrace the open mind not the closed mind.”
.
and yet in your case, it closed doors and minds and demanded iraq war.
.
.
“With the best will in the world, protective constitutional provisions will remain paper aspirations if religious and government leaders do not educate their constituencies in religious minority rights.”
.
and yet under labour and now tories, muslim rights to burka and other religious attributes are attacked on a daily basis. it was this religious right that was abused by you for the afghanistan war. and now afghanistans women are (as with iraqi women) today less free under our placemen.
.
.
“A commitment to human dignity means concrete action: training law enforcement officers to uphold these values, teaching from primary school upwards of respect and understanding for people of other faiths, religious literacy for national leaders.”
.
and that dignity appears to stop at palestinian borders .
.
.
“The defence of the rights of people of other beliefs should be a routine part of their work, just as they defend the rights of their own community. Otherwise how can they stand as champions of universal values?”
.
yet as mid east envoy you have not demanded the rights of palestinians, “arabs” be upheld .
.
.
“But it is the interpretation of these truth-claims that is the problem; the repeated human desire to claim that God is on our side, that we have formed the Party of God, that our human frailty, cruelty and inhumanity is sanctioned by God. ”
.
or even as the man of god.
.
.
“That is where faith belongs. And why the world needs it.”
.
god does not need tony blair , tony blair needs god though.

How about this in the Mail written by a padre who was in Iraq? Nicely savage about Blair.
.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2060753/I-wept-comforted-soldiers-maimed-Iraq-How-I-tell-Blairs-just-war-illusion.html

This rare piece in the Guardian.
.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/12/st-pauls-canon-occupy-protest
.
When members of the Occupy camp join Remembrance Day services at St Paul’s Cathedral, their ranks will be swelled by a group of military veterans with their own list of grievances against the establishment.
.
At least 15 former service personnel have now pitched up outside the cathedral and at nearby Finsbury Square, many in protest over treatment of veterans or the conflicts that have burdened them with mental or physical scars.
.
Their presence is an indication of the evolving support base of the anti-capitalist Occupy movement, which has been endorsed by a senior figure at St Paul’s, just weeks after the protests led to the resignation of three of the cathedral’s leading clerics.
Among the veterans is Michael Brandon – known to friends as Ace – who left the army 20 years ago. He has spent the past two decades mostly homeless, during which he slipped into alcoholism and began self-harming – his wrists are criss-crossed with scar tissue where he has slashed himself with razor blades.
.
At the Occupy Finsbury Square site, Brandon has set up Ace Bikes, a bicycle repair business, to raise funds for the movement. The 46-year-old, like other veterans at the camp, says that he is protesting for better opportunities for their children – in Brandon’s case, for his five-year-old son, Daniel James. Brandon says an incident in Northern Ireland triggered his psychiatric problems.

.
/….

In the very same week when everybody was busy with Remembrance Day, Phoney Blair was busy hussling Billions from the tax payers for “state building” projects.

F*ck Blair.
Just broken:
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=436418
They can gag the British press, but that’s not the only game in town.

A certain Middle East company secures long term US political support
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15711213

I was fortunate to get my anti-zionist piece published a couple of years before Mearsheimer and Walt wrote their work The Israeli Lobby … but, it was for a start-up U.S. news website called The Rawstory … a testament to the courage of the young founder/editor John Byrne … not long after the articles editor told me my work was no longer needed (of course)

Here is my take on it:
http://www.rawstory.com/exclusives/softley/soft.htm

I managed to fly-under-the-radar since I was just a freelancer and the website was new (I’m sure I’m on all the zionist’s lists now)

I do not wish to muddle the argument but, what’s telling is that, according to The Remnants of Auschwitz (Georgio Agamben), those who had lost one’s will to live: the living dead were called Musselman (literary, the Muslim) among the inmates in the Nazi camp. Agamben draws parallels between this deprivation of humanity with the treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo, whose citizenship, rights, dignity were suspended in his States of Exception.
.
Living in the society where one’s worth is calculated by his/her productivity; it seems that the world has turned into a vast open prison where everyone is a Musselman.

Ha. Bloody. Ha. Asia Times is as bent as a nine bob note.
.
> This article sounds like the bubonic plague. It renders editors “out to lunch”, “on vacation”, or otherwise out of action. Asia Times might publish it. – ‘Edward’
.
‘Asia Times’ is a US Operation Mockingbird operation. 1. They employ a known Zionist shill posing as a sodomite. (ER, Shome mishtake shurely? Ed.) ER, my bad. Posing as ‘Spengler.’ –
.
Previously –
.
PEPE ESCOBAR’S STRINGS – WHO’S PULLING THEM ???
.
THE HALL OF MIRRORS THAT IS (DIS)INFORMATION
.
Suspicious minds are very certain that Asia Times is an Operation Mockingbird Mk II resource as it continues to give Zionist-Nazi ‘Spengler’ a platform to spread _very_cheap_ Neocon / Zionist propaganda. (*1). Then Pepe Escobar who is usually both interesting and funny, here and on Real News, had a dodgy two weeks during the Iran coloured revolution in 2009 when he didn’t seem to be quite his usual acerbic-and-bitingly-satirical self about the US.
.
Pepe Escobar at Real News –
.
- http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=317&Itemid=317&jumival=escobar&search=search
.
‘Strings Attached?’ – ‘Are Pepe Escobar’s strings showing? If so, who is pulling them???’ – Comment to ‘Obama Squeezed Between Israel and Iran,’ by Pepe Escobar – March 25, 2010 – ICH –
.
- http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25073.htm
.
JOHN LE CARRE
.
Q. Why is there a war on terror?
A. “Because the US has not learned how to hold itself together without an external enemy.” “What you have to do – ask Karl Rove – is make sure that people are frightened.” !!! – @3.36 –
.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGhNVmZlGyo#t=03m36s
.
“We in old Europe know about war and we don’t want anymore war. We hate war. The United States, alas, has still to interpret politics in military terms and that’s a catastrophe.” @6.00 -
.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eukzmGPDHJE#t=04m50s
.
“These days it’s very hard to buy, or to read, uninfluenced, unbought, opinion. Whether in the press, in politics, on radio, on television. Increasingly people are afraid of offending against the corporate or the collective voice.” Which doesn’t even start to consider the (im)pure propaganda organs – like Asia Times(?). – Part 3 – @ 7.18 –
.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eukzmGPDHJE#t=07m18s
.
(*1) Operation Mockingbird – Spartacus Schoolnet –
.
- http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmockingbird.htm
.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
.
ASIA TIMES – BENT
.
Zionist-N__i ‘Spengler’ –
.
- http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=mondoweiss+goldman+spengler&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
.
Zionist-N__i ‘Spengler’ – Link fails, but included in google search, above. –
.
- http://mondoweiss.net/2008/06/three-weeks-ago-i-did-a-post-about-the-writer-spengler-showing-how-he-used-multiple-personae-under-the-byline-shushon-he-wa.html

sounds like you got paid for the article several times over. way to go. trebles all round.

I prepared to translate it and send it to various other countries. I look at the instances highlighted the 1st two clearly take an anti Israeli policy line while the 3rd seems vague and has little context. The 1st 2 it is now clear that any comment critical of Israeli government policy will be taken by the guardian as being potentially read by person or persons unknown as anti Semitic and will be erased. I completely understand if you feel that this is unsatisfactory and that you want to cut your losses and take it elsewhere.

Those who wish to silence Craig are having a jolly time at Runnymede. They have already heard from the stooge chairman of the BBC, Lord Patten yesterday and today:
.
The lecture will open and set the scene for the conference that has the title Magna Carta II – A modern Media Charter
.
Based at Runnymede on Thames on the edge of London where King John signed the Magna Carta in 1215, the conference will focus on media freedom and its role in a democratic society.
.
The conference is always a hub of media discussion, strategy and vision that has become one of the major events in the media calendar. The conference will focus on the experience of editors across all sectors of the media, explore best practice and the best ways of ensuring the media’s freedom to serve audiences in the 24-hour, global media age of the internet.
.
Current president of the Society of Editors is Robin Esser, Executive Managing Editor of the Daily Mail. He is due to be succeeded by vice president Francesca Unsworth, Head of Newsgathering at the BBC.
.
[..]
The conference will focus on freedom – freedom of the media and freedom of expression for everyone.
[..]
Magna Carta guaranteed trial by jury, created inquests into sudden deaths and provided for habeas corpus – no imprisonment without good reason and the publicity necessary to prevent it.
.
All of those are being debated again in 2011 for a variety of reasons and the media which has developed a special and vital role in democracy still has no formal guarantee of freedom to match America’s First Amendment.
.
Monday 14 November will be given over to working sessions on numerous topics with time in between to meet friends old and new. The annual gala dinner will follow in the evening for hundreds of media guests. The conference will wrap up with the Tuesday morning 20-20 Vision breakfast seminar and the incoming president’s address.

.
~~~~~
Have you ever read such bilge and hypocrisy?
.
http://www.societyofeditors.co.uk/page-view.php?pagename=conference

Where is it? Monday morning comes, a lot of crowing has been done. Monday morning publishers print Sunday night.

I hope that the Irish press will take this story, otherwise it might not see the light of day.
made a lot of people aware of what is going to happen, so whatever is going on?

NNPT Non-Signatory Clamours For Action against NNPT Signatory, (cont’d)
http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE7AC0Y320111113

A laugh a minute from the cheeky chappies in Tel Aviv:

‘A senior Israeli official defended the government position: “It is not good for democracy to allow foreign governments to be directly involved in political activities.’

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/13/israeli-ministers-criticism-ngo-funding

It’s called Chutzpah Komodo.
.
Chutzpah ( /ˈhʊtspə/) is the quality of audacity, for good or for bad, but it is generally used positively. The Yiddish word derives from the Hebrew word ḥuṣpâ (חֻצְפָּה), meaning “insolence”, “audacity”. The modern English usage of the word has taken on a broader meaning, having been popularized through vernacular use in film, literature, and television. The word has also been able to be interpreted as meaning the amount of spunk or ability that an individual has.

Thank you, Mary. I used the term earlier (some distance above), and I know.

In English, it’s called barefaced cheek.

Anyway, if you’re media, book a flight to TA now, and ensure your place in the specially erected grandstand overlooking Gaza. Just remember, the spectacular explosions will only be killing untermensch in their filthy ghetto.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9945121

More ethnic cleansing imminent:
“One of the obstacles in the way of the “empty land” myth is some 27,000 Bedouin living in Area C. About 80 percent of them are already refugees, deported from the Negev desert around 1950. In a gradual, calculated process that has been going on since the 1970s, the Israeli bureaucracy has been closing in on them, limiting their nomadic way of life and destroying their livelihood as shepherds, while preventing them from improving their living standard on the sites they do inhabit.
An obstacle to the immediate plans for expanding Ma’aleh Adumim and its sister settlements, until they close ranks with Jerusalem, are some 2,400 Bedouin living east of the capital. In a few weeks or months, the Israeli authorities will implement a plan for their expulsion and forced concentration near a hazardous garbage dump, in a village also born out of the sin of expulsion for the sake of Ma’aleh Adumim and its expansion.”
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/it-s-not-that-israel-is-finding-new-ways-to-expel-palestinians-it-s-that-no-one-cares-1.395437

.
Ma’aleh Adumim? That rings a bell. Oh, yes, that’ll be Poju Zabludowicz’s little venture. One of the BICOM guys who subbed Werritty, you recall. You don’t?
.
According to Electoral Commission records, Zabludowicz’s company, the Tamares private investment group, which is based in London, New York, Lichtenstein and Tel Aviv, provided £15,000 for Cameron’s leadership campaign in 2005 and donated £55,000 to Conservative funds in 2006 and 2007.

Of course, the Conservatives are not the sole UK beneficiaries of Zabludowicz’s largesse. On 4 January 2009 at the height of the Israeli onslaught in Gaza, Rajeev Syal published an article entitled, How the pro-Israel lobby in Britain benefits from a generous London tycoon in the Observer. The report revealed that “Company accounts show that Zabludowicz, whose fortune was founded on the success of his father’s arms company, donated £937,995 to Bicom in 2007, around half its total income, and £341,694 in 2006″. BICOM is the British Israel Communication and Research Centre which the report described as “Britain’s most active pro-Israeli lobbying organisation”.
(Source: Middle East Monitor, 30 March 2010)

Jeff Softley, considering your piece was written 7 years ago I found it quite perceptive. There are Israeli and Muslim elites which although small in number have a powerful grip on the media and on control of public opinion. I’m coming back to the opinion that Freemasonry, the mystical anti-Christian side of Judaism, is responsible for the manipulation of dictates of non-Israelis to the cause (Blair, Bush et al). How the Muslim elites keep control confounds me and I can only assume that certain mosques, like certain churches, have an agenda. Like you say these extreme elites are small but very powerful.
.
There was only one other person wearing a white poppy at my church yesterday. When I got back I was exposed to footage of Blair at the Cenotaph and wanted to throw up.

Oh, no, not the bloody Masonic conspiracy again. If Blair is a 33rd degree Mason, (whatever that is) why did he invade Iraq to topple Saddam, who was, allegedly a 33rd degree Mason too?
Pure lunacy here:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread6496/pg1
.
Still, it’s very hard to disprove. Like the fairies at the bottom of the garden, who are also secretive and have their own agenda.

Third Reich Frees Fatherland’s Soil From Inferior Races Israel Fulfils God’s Will:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/arabs-squeezed-as-jerusalem-expands-6261622.html

No surprise here. You’d think the news about what really happened to the leading opponent in the U.S. government to the creation of the state of Israel would merit a bit of coverage in some newspaper somewhere, as well. But no.

See “New Forrestal Document Exposes Cover-up” at http://dcdave.com/article4/040927.html.

Craig, if you give me yours I’ll swap mine. Backed up by information to verify what I say.
I do know a little on the Americans, Israelis and a lot of other interesting stuff. As I said previously Tenet used my work in what I believe was his last paper. Feb 11th, 2003.

Own goal:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/149658

Own goal:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/149658
These buggers are out of control.

Wonder if the French media picked this up?
http://occupiedlove.blogspot.com/2011/11/french-consul-pregnant-wife-2-children.html

Craig,

In support, I have written to PressTV http://www.presstv.ir/ so far without response. I have also written to Paul Craig Roberts as attached below. PCR has a big following and – in private correspondence – has intimated that much of his writing on controversial subjects (read 9/11 and also Israel) is published in Information Clearing House (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/) but never in CounterPunch or Anti-War.com, clearly indicating the soft gatekeeping function of these two sites. Anyway, here is my note to him and I hope that you both can get together.

Dear Paul,

I attach my cv to prove that I am not a flake (or fake). [You can check many of these citings in PubMed.] Please keep this confidential.

OK, having established my credentials, might I draw your attention to Craig Murray’s very important piece at http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/11/matthew-gould-and-the-plot-to-attack-iran/ ?

This article by Craig Murray almost proves, I think, that there is a shadow (zionist) group plotting the UK entry into the next war against Iran.

I will record in Craig Murray’s blog that I have sent this email to you (indeed, I will post this email; and I very much hope that you can get together on this).

I recognise that you are coming from different directions – you from Reagan and he from the left wing of British politics, but this revelation is bigger than petty political differences that might have existed in the past. 

But, my attempt at matchmaker will fail unless you both agree to get together. You are both ex-insiders, since – as you may or not be aware – Craig is an ex British Ambassador.  

Please read his important article on his web site and publicise it as far as you can – on ICH at least. Also, please email Craig Murray and get together.

From Craig:

“For the record I have just deleted a whole raft of pending holocaust denial related comments from a number of people. We do seem to have an incredibly clever automated moderation system that had put them all into pending.
It is not something I am going to allow on this site. There is no shortage of sites on the subject, and you are free to go there.”

As an investigative scientist all of my life I have never understood “denial” as a term that relates to scientific investigation. But in the 20th/21st century it is coming back into fashion – as in HIV denier and global warming denier. Very worrying, and it all stems from the religion of the Holocaust (cf Gilad Atzmon) when, for the first time since medieval times, scientists that choose to investigate the subject are incarcerated. Freedom of speech indeed.

abe rene: “eyewitnesses are pretty strong evidence in cases of murder.”

In cases of murder, “pretty strong evidence” is not good enough. And when it goes up against solid forensic evidence, such as DNA, the forensic evidence wins.

From the Innocence Project:
“Eyewitness misidentification is the single greatest cause of wrongful convictions nationwide, playing a role in more than 75% of convictions overturned through DNA testing.”

75% — That’s a lot!

more:
“While eyewitness testimony can be persuasive evidence before a judge or jury, 30 years of strong social science research has proven that eyewitness identification is often unreliable. Research shows that the human mind is not like a tape recorder; we neither record events exactly as we see them, nor recall them like a tape that has been rewound. Instead, witness memory is like any other evidence at a crime scene; it must be preserved carefully and retrieved methodically, or it can be contaminated.”

Contaminated – hmm . . .

And from Wikipedia:
Historically, eyewitness testimony has had what Brennan described as “a powerful impact on juries”,[2] who noted in his dissent that “All the evidence points rather strikingly to the conclusion that there is almost nothing more convincing [to a jury] than a live human being who takes the stand, points a finger at the defendant, and says ‘That’s the one!’”.[5] Another commentator observed that the eyewitness identification of a person as a perpetrator was persuasive to jurors even when “far outweighed by evidence of innocence.”[6]

and this:
Juries put too much trust in witnesses because of some common misconceptions about how memories work. The common belief is that memories are recorded and then played back, much like a video recorder. However memories are not replayed as an accurate recording, instead they are reconstructed like pieces of a puzzle and they are also open to the power of suggestion. It is entirely possible to create false memories.

Many researchers have created false memories in normal individuals; what is more, many of these subjects are certain that the memories are real. In one well-known study, Loftus and her colleague Jacqueline Pickrell gave subjects written accounts of four events, three of which they had actually experienced. The fourth story was fiction; it centered on the subject being lost in a mall or another public place when he or she was between four and six years old. –Scientific American
——————–

And that’s assuming the subjects are all honest, and don’t make a profit, or get privileged status or other benefits from their “memories.”

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FedUp: Israel should be held responsible for the deisions of the democratically elected Israeli government. But that is not the same as holding every Israeli (or every German) individually responsible for the misdeeds of those in authority. It means that the authorities have a responsibility to turn away from wrong-doing and repair the past where they can.

Elisabeth Angel: we’re not dealing with one murder and one eyewitness. We’re dealing with millions. And, I suspect, you have not made a serious effort to talk to even a few – perhaps, for all we know, not even one. Hardly the attitude of a good investigator and seeker after truth.

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Abe Rene, You wrote: “we’re not dealing with one murder and one eyewitness. We’re dealing with millions. And, I suspect, you have not made a serious effort to talk to even a few – perhaps, for all we know, not even one. Hardly the attitude of a good investigator and seeker after truth.”

Well, “millions” of murders should require millions of times the proof of one murder, but there was actually no “proof” of a single murder in in a homicidal “GC”(initialized to avoid the censor-bot)in this case — it was not required. In the military tribunals after the war, the the judges merely “took judicial notice” of the murders. There was no requirement that they be proven — basically because the tribunals were merely show trials used to provide a legal pretext for murdering the leaders of conquered Germany so the victors would have a free hand.

Yes, “Eyewitness” testimony can be very convincing. What did your “eyewitnesses” actually see, though?

It’s pointless for you to keep on at me about whether I’ve talked with an eyewitness when you obviously have made no effort to look at the forensic evidence. Of course I’ve seen “eyewitnesses” on TV, and I found them believable at the time. But the bottom line is that while people can say all sorts of things and be believed for all sorts of reasons, if something couldn’t happen scientifically, it didn’t.

In some of the “H” memoirs by survivors, the numbers claimed to have been executed per day would have added up to 6 mil in a month or two, never mind the fact that they would have been impossible. The whole point about “eyewitness” testimony is that it can be “persuasive to jurors even when ‘far outweighed by evidence of innocence.’”

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