The Hottest Potato

by craig on November 11, 2011 5:04 pm in Uncategorized

Taking on the Zionist lobby head-on is well nigh impossible.

I have written a stunning piece on Werritty, Israel and a neo-con plot to attack Iran. It contains information not published anywhere, even here. I have circulated it to several national newspapers, for each of which I have written many times. I have never had a piece refused before.

Several national papers have checked out my story factually and nobody has found a single hole in it. But nobody will publish it. I reproduce below every email I have received from any of these papers in reply. They show what a hot potato a serious anti-Zionist is – and I strongly suspect that the repeated inability of editors to make decisions which emerges from these emails shows they need on this subject to consult their proprietors.

The emails are given with the source removed and which is from which paper disguised, because I don’t wish to attack anyone in particular for this generic fear of the Israeli lobby, and also because I hope I may one day work for them again. In fact I still have not received an actual “no” from anybody – just a repeated batting off of the hot potato. The story is so good nobody can actually think of an excuse to refuse it, but they dare not accept it.

I think some of the individuals involved are ashamed. Each of the papers have had the article between five and ten days – which when you consider how the newspaper industry works, is an astonishing period in which nobody is able to make a decision.

“Sorry. … is the editor.”

“Just back in after being out most of day. Jury (i.e. editor) is still out on this one. I’ve spoken to …, and emailed him your copy. Will report back in the morning.”

“Dear Craig, sorry to have been slow back, but I’m on holiday. I’ve looked at your earlier email and can’t find the attachment you mention (of the long piece), but think I’ve got the basic idea. I’m no longer comment editor and don’t commission pieces, but would recommend getting in touch with …(who is comment editor, currently editing …) if you’re thinking of a comment piece. If it’s more news, then … worth talking to, or maybe one of the reporters who’s worked on the Werrity case. Let me know how you get on, all best,”

“Hi Craig OK, had some feedback from the editor. We can’t do anything on this this week, for various reasons. In an ideal world, we would like to hold on to it for another week. We would then have our politics team make some inquiries and then run your piece – or a version of it – alongside a news story on this particular issue (providing of course that our team can come up with one). Obviously there are quite a few ifs and buts here – we can’t guarantee that we will run the piece – so I completely understand if you feel that this is unsatisfactory and that you want to cut your losses and take it elsewhere. In that case, we’ll simply pay you the £200 we’ve already agreed and hope you will consider us again the next time you have something.”

“OK, thanks Craig. Will give you a call or drop you a line tomorrow.”

“I’m temporarily out of action- deal w …?”

“Well, we can pay £200 to hang on to it until tomorrow and then I’ll have to talk to the editor about what he wants to pay to run it but if we ran it at the length you sent it, it would be a minimum of, say, £1,500″

“Yes, there was talk of it on the Today programme as well.”

“Yes, sorry for delay in replying. The answer is we are interested in your piece. It’s too early in the week to say that we’re definitely going to run it. Can we sit on it for the time being and talk again late tomorrow? Naturally, we’ll pay you for the piece”

“Good stuff.”

“Hi Craig. Thanks for your email. This other meeting might allow us to take the story on and reprise a lot of the material which was left out of our original story. What do you think?”

“Hello Craig Thanks for this. Let me have a read and a think about it and then I’ll get back to you. Cheers”

“Craig Having now had a look at your piece, let me have a bit more time to think about it, would you? best wishes”

“Craig I’ve been out of town and offline until this morning. But I’m no longer comment editor, so I don’t commission any articles anyhow best wishes”

“Craig. As I mentioned, I am off this week. I’m sorry I didn’t get back to you on Saturday. I have handed your piece over to …, the Foreign editor, and recommended it to him. He is extremely experienced and will have its best wishes at heart as well as the knowhow to secure its place in the paper. I do hope he and you can make it work. With good wishes”

“Craig.. Thank you. I have read it and have now shown it to the editor. He is having a think. I’ll get back to you as soon as I know anything … ”

UPDATE

The banned article can now be read here

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277 Comments

  1. Publish it on your website and tweet it as a link on the web. You’ll get plenty of retweets. Overall I reckon you’ll get as many readers as a publisher delegating it to p94 in the Telegraph.

  2. Have you tried Al Jazeera website? Or eevn coming on air? Get in touch if you need to.

  3. I am prepared to translate it and send it to various other countries if you wish.

    The ridiculous censorship is so endemic that no one dares to even call it censorship, the fear sewn by the zionist overlords has got everyone running for cover. How is about that for “democracy”?

  4. Does anyone know when reference was made to the subject on ‘Today’ and I will try to find an iPlayer link if no-one beats me to it.

  5. Perhaps Stephen could suggest a way round or through the Zionist censorship.

  6. careful craig, going down this road could lead to you being found at the edge of a wood having committed suicide. just practice saying this `אנא אדון חילוף חיים חסרי ערך שלי` . and now for something completely different, did lame street media report the dismissal of all the top brass of the army navy and airforce in greece and replace them with minister/s, for fear of a military coup, or that the greek elite have stashed billions in swiss bank accounts, thats why the greeks hate paying tax, because of their corrupt government. has anyone mentioned the quadrillions of becquerels of radioactive material from fukushima dispersed into the sea, or that tokyo has in places higher levels of radioactivity than chernobyl did in the `80s. has anyone drawn attention to all these so called national unity governments taking the place of dumped prime ministers, im scared we are heading toward a very dark place, we need someone who stamps their feet and salutes in an imperial roman style, NOT. and the rest of it, no no and no. i dont always agree with what you or other readers say but i read with interest, and long may it continue. craig do not allow yourself to become the first casualty of the iran war, or even the 2nd or third etc. god bless have a nice weekend.

  7. Craig – Sent it to Counterpunch in the US (edited by Alex Cockburn). They’ll definitely take it. Also check out the Information Clearing House. I know you want something mainstream but ICH does a good job of compiling daily the best antiwar, anti-neocon pieces. All the best, Njegos

  8. “Perhaps Stephen could suggest a way round or through the Zionist censorship.”

    If that is what it is, which I somehow doubt – rather than fear of libel(which is what it sounds like) – then the answer would be to print it on your website and then send links to the newspapers concerned. It is far easier and more fireproof to quote information that is already in the public domain – where someone else has taken the legal risk.

    I don’t know if you have noticed Mary but there is precious little that Israel manages to hide.

    I would also suggest that Craig might wish to find more than one source to back up his allegations if he hasn’t done so already. Good journalists used to look for corroboration before going to print – although many are not so fussy nowadays.

  9. “I have written a stunning piece .. ”

    How dare they refuse to publish an article on the basis of such an excellent recommendation! Clearly a sign that you must be blacklisted. But you could always post it here.

  10. Gary Why should Craig be saying Please Lord spare my worthless life?? Anything but worthless IMHO.
    .
    Who said anything about libel? Oh Stephen of course.

  11. Stephen,

    I used to think you were a friendly and interesting commentator putting forward a different view, but now I realise you are just a troll. Of course the article is properly sourced, and it follows proper journalistic ethics, ie those criticised have been asked for their viewpoint. As I plainly stated, several national newspapers have fact-checked it and the facts are fine.

    Do you see a single querying of fact in the above exchanges? If there is a fear of libel – and nobody has ever sued me for libel, unlike for example convicted libellers Iain Dale and Guido Fawkes – the newspaper calls you in to go through it with the lawyer. I have been there many times before.

    This is nothing to do with libel or with doubted facts. Now stop being an obvious arse.

  12. Andrew Forest-Hall

    11 Nov, 2011 - 6:21 pm

    Al Jazeera does seem the most obvious outlet for this. Have you something against them?

  13. The important thing now is to get your story out into the public domain. Others have mentioned suitable vehicles to that end.
    .
    I’m assuming here that your story concerns the Israeli lobby, but with additional information indicating that said lobby has moved from lobbying, money and influence to a much more sinister direct control?
    .
    Peter Oborne has done some rather brave work in this area.

  14. Mr Murray, I put this comment on another of your blogs the other day. I think it is relevent to this blog too:

    Damning proof that the Guardian does not support free-speech, especially when it comes to Israel.

    I posted this link just after 7pm today on this website:

    An article by Gilad Atzmon is rather enlightening:

    This Is How Israel Runs The British Press

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29642.htm

    After reading the Guardian article ‘Why do the US media believe the worst about Iran’ (link provided by Pee above) I posted exactly the same comment and link on the Guardian website at 7.14pm.

    This what I found on revisiting just now, an hour and a half later:
    BarryR38
    9 November 2011 7:14PM
    This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn’t abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

  15. Good luck with the article Craig. I hope you get it published in the main stream media although things negative about Israel and their supporters seem not to make it,that is the kind of so called free press we have.I would try abroad with people not under the western umbrella first off.

  16. A bit off-topic but perhaps not so much – this article about Hague’s involvement in Libyan oil mentions Tony Buckingham – at first I couldn’t remember where I’d seen the name before, but obviously he is mentioned in your book. These people are everywhere!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8882816/Hague-facing-questions-over-Libya-deal.html

  17. Please publish it here, Craig. What you say about the responses from the papers is interesting but not surprising.

  18. Craig

    That is just my view as to why the newspapers might be refusing your story – in my experience newspapers do not always give their reasons for not wanting to print a story and the responses you print point to that. It doesn’t follow that there is anti Zionist conspiracy and there could be plenty of other reasons.

    You must be aware that there are plenty of people who are prepared to sue people for libel – even when there clearly is no libel – and they are not all Zionists. And if those concerned are rich or big enough the newspapers will back off if they think that the possible costs outweigh the benefits. This is probably why some stroies end up with the likes of Dale and Guido rather than in the Press.

    Happy to accept that you have checked your sources, hence the reference to “hasn’t done so already” in my original post – I just didn’t know and that may otherwise have been a legitimate concern of the newspapers. If the tone was a little off then I apologise – but I was responding to yet another of Mary’s stupid insinuations that I am some sort of Mossad agent.

    PS I don’t think Guido is yet a convicted libeller – much as I would like him to be.

  19. BarryR38

    I would have to agree about the guardian,they removed all my posts on comment is free about the Israelis influence over American media and politicians. I complained and they never replied. Then I found this story on Haaretz.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/u-k-s-guardian-owns-up-to-inadvertent-cases-of-anti-semitism-1.394851

  20. I would so love to read the said article!!! Doh!!!

  21. What is particularly galling is that the Guardian today publishes this war criminal
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/nov/11/tony-blair-democracy-friendly-religion

  22. UnfortunatelyAl Jazeera is no-longer what it used to be. RT seems to be the news channel to watch these days, especially Max Keiser and Tracy Herbert, Crosstalk and The Alyana Show. Information Clearing House is the best web-newsletter (in my opinion). Take a look at Truthout too.

  23. @CraigMurray

    I think the real problem is that people in the UK are not aware of what Zionism really is. It would need a several exposes of the disinformation and propaganda surrounding the Zionist mythology before people understood that there are concerns to address.

    There is huge confusion. I regularly have to re-state my position that I am not anti-Semitic, I am not anti-Jewish, I am not racist, I am not religionist.

    I am a Christian, which means I have “bound myself to the Lord”, which means that I am spiritually allied to all Jewish people :-

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2056:1-8&version=NIV

    I do not accept the decision to found the State of Israel by the world’s great powers. It did not resolve the problems faced by Jewry in Europe and elsewhere, and despite the original mandate, it obviously had in it the potential to create regional conflict.

    According to my reading of scripture, the tribes of Israel and Judah forfeit the right to ownership of the land in Palestine because of spiritual apostasy, or rather, infidelity; it cannot be regained by the force of arms. Peace in the region can only come when God himself rules.

    The State of Israel is like a cruel joke played on global Jewry : out of the frying pan of Europe and into the fire of sitting right in the middle of Arab states. The formation of the State of Israel and the mass migration of Jews to Israel succeeded in the ethnic cleansing of Europe far more effectively than the Nazi regime in Germany.

    The United States of America gained a puppet state in the Middle East out of this horrible compromise, and is still paying guilt money to the State of Israel. The arms and the funding may well stop soon because of the economic liabilities America is facing up to. What then for the State of Israel ? The State of Israel needs to learn the art of peacemaking. In the mean time, we all need to learn about Zionism and how political goals were achieved through religious propaganda.

  24. Tournesol
    .
    “this article about Hague’s involvement in Libyan oil mentions Tony Buckingham – at first I couldn’t remember where I’d seen the name before, but obviously he is mentioned in your book. These people are everywhere!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8882816/Hague-facing-questions-over-Libya-deal.html
    .
    Pepe Escobar writes about Heritage Oil and Uganda:
    .
    “So why Uganda? Enter London-based Heritage Oil, and its chairman Tony Buckingham, a former – you guessed it – “contractor” (ie mercenary). Here’s Heritage’s modus operandi, described by Buckingham himself; they deploy “a first mover strategy of entering regions with vast hydrocarbon wealth where we have a strategic advantage”.
    .
    “Translation: wherever there’s foreign invasion, civil war, total breakdown of social order, there are big bucks to be made. Thus Heritage’s presence in Iraq, Libya and Uganda.
    .
    “Profiting from post-war fog, Heritage signed juicy deals in Iraqi Kurdistan behind the back of the central government in Baghdad. In Libya, Heritage bought a 51% stake in a local company called Sahara Oil Services; this means it’s now directly involved in operating oil and gas licenses. Pressed about it, TNC honchos have tried to change the conversation, alleging that nothing is approved yet.
    .
    “What’s certain is that Heritage barged into Libya via a former SAS commando, John Holmes, founder of Erinys, one of the top mercenary outfits in Iraq apart from Xe Services, former Blackwater. Holmes cunningly shipped the right bottles of Johnnie Walker Blue Label to Benghazi for the right TNC crooks, seducing them with Heritage’s mercenary know-how of enforcing “oil field security”. ”
    .
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/MJ21Dj03.html

  25. Tournesol, Pepe Escobar on Heritage Oil, ref to the Telegraph article:
    .
    “….. London-based Heritage Oil, and its chairman Tony Buckingham, a former – you guessed it – “contractor” (ie mercenary). Here’s Heritage’s modus operandi, described by Buckingham himself; they deploy “a first mover strategy of entering regions with vast hydrocarbon wealth where we have a strategic advantage”.
    .
    “Translation: wherever there’s foreign invasion, civil war, total breakdown of social order, there are big bucks to be made. Thus Heritage’s presence in Iraq, Libya and Uganda.
    .
    “Profiting from post-war fog, Heritage signed juicy deals in Iraqi Kurdistan behind the back of the central government in Baghdad. In Libya, Heritage bought a 51% stake in a local company called Sahara Oil Services; this means it’s now directly involved in operating oil and gas licenses. Pressed about it, TNC honchos have tried to change the conversation, alleging that nothing is approved yet.
    .
    “What’s certain is that Heritage barged into Libya via a former SAS commando, John Holmes, founder of Erinys, one of the top mercenary outfits in Iraq apart from Xe Services, former Blackwater. Holmes cunningly shipped the right bottles of Johnnie Walker Blue Label to Benghazi for the right TNC crooks, seducing them with Heritage’s mercenary know-how of enforcing “oil field security”. ”
    .
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/MJ21Dj03.html

  26. Craig – if you’ve not considered them already, Private Eye is generally unafraid of outside pressure.
    .
    There are progressive news/politics broadcasters in the US, such as Mike Malloy (http://www.mikemalloy.com/), and Sam Seder of The Majority Report (http://majority.fm/), who would be happy to break a story like this. They distinguish themselves by having the courage to openly denounce Israeli atrocities on a regular basis, and like to get into details – their audience is generally very well informed. Mike Malloy has mentioned you in the past.

  27. Stephen ‘I am some sort of Mossad agent’ You said that. I never have. I have always thought that you are a troll. Hasbara/Megaphone/CAMERA/Israel project should be proud.
    .
    Poor old Gilad Atzmon got the treatment at Exeter University the night before last. If he was an academic at an American university, he would have lost his tenure by now like Norman Finkelstein.
    .
    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-challenges-picketers-prior-to-his-talk-in-exete.html

    {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_Kingdom}

  28. The only important thing about Blair’s article for The Guardian is just how many comments have been censored.
    .
    There seem to be more that are censored than are allowed and even those which are allowed are critical of the disgusting creature.
    .
    This goes to the very heart of the changes that are taking place in the world. People now realise that they been lied to by the very institutions that ought to be protecting our democracy. These institutions, including Parliament, Judiciary, Police and Media are corrupt and no longer fit for any purpose other than root and branch reform.
    .
    It’s not possible anymore to work through these institutions for reform of this corruption any longer. They themselves are now the problem.
    .
    That’s why all over the world people are taking to bottom up democratic action.

  29. I don’t think that anyone cares a toss what Blair says. He is completely discredited and has been for a long time. Just hope his pal Rusbridger did not pay him for that tripe today.

  30. That Haaretz piece is astonishing, showing the Guardian Chris Elliot cringing before the possibility that something written about Israel could be interpreted (by who?) as anti-semitic. And when you look at the instances highlighted, the 1st two clearly take an anti-Israeli policy line, while the 3rd seems vague and has little context. But WRT the 1st 2 it is now clear that any comment critical of Israeli government policy will be taken by the Guardian as being potentially read by person or persons unknown as anti-semitic and will be erased. Seems to me.

  31. Shameful… the British way. All very polite – you can almost hear the rattling of teacups – yet stonewalling.
    .
    Get it out, whatever way you can. Get it on the web/ social networking sites and so will be spread virally. Maximise exposure on all appropriate oppositional sites. Yes, try all the outlets suggested by the people here.
    .
    Good on you! Go for it!

  32. Herbie, “Blair’s article for The Guardian …. There seem to be more that are censored than are allowed and even those which are allowed are critical of the disgusting creature.”
    .
    Just had a look. I read most of the ones that are deleted before they were censored. They were all inoffensive to the extreme and many rather funny.
    .
    You aren’t even allowed to make fun of a monster like Blair!
    .
    What are the Guardian editors so frightened of?
    .

  33. Frank Hawkes

    11 Nov, 2011 - 7:14 pm

    Another possible publication site would be What Really Happened, hosted by Michael Rivero. I believe he is based in Hawai and is frequently critical of the US/Israel coalition and the continual drumbeats for World War III (well somebody has to sell the bullets). You might also try Wayne Madsen Report although I think you have to subscribe in order to comment. Still worth trying. Madsen is/was a Washington insider and a frequent thorn in the side of the dross coming out of US mainstream media. Good luck

  34. Sorry, double post to Tournesol, thought the first one was lost.

  35. Craig, the Morning Star claims to be for Peace and Socialism. It might not have the readership of some of the more powerful dailies, but this piece, with links on this blog, could see it go global. It’s frightening to think the Israeli lobby has so much power, and as posted yesterday there are only 3 countries who do not have a Rothschild Central Bank – the world is greed gone mad, greed for money, greed for oil.

  36. Herbie writes: ‘The only important thing about Blair’s article for The Guardian is just how many comments have been censored.’

    My exact sentiments too. ‘Tis a pity the Guardian is not as it was in the late fifties and early sixties.

  37. Have I lost a comment, or is it in quarantine?

    Anybody in Birmingham wanting white poppies to go with their red ones they can get them at the health store in Allison Street (Friends of the Earth) and also in the chaplaincy at the University.

  38. Ken, the story on Haaretz/Guardian/anti-Semitism.

    Haaretz quote:
    .
    While Elliot defended the paper’s commitment to balanced reporting, he spoke of three incidents, saying “in the last nine months I have upheld complaints against language within articles that I agreed could be read as anti-Semitic.”
    .
    Such incidents included, according to Elliot, “references to Israel/U.S. ‘global domination’ and the term ‘slavish’ to describe the U.S. relationship with Israel; and, in an article on a lost tribe of Mallorcan Jews, what I regarded as a gratuitous reference to ‘the island’s wealthier families.’”
    .
    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/u-k-s-guardian-owns-up-to-inadvertent-cases-of-anti-semitism-1.394851
    .
    I’m a regular reader of the on-line Guardian and I have never read the words ‘global domination’ in an article about Israel.
    .
    “slavish” might be, at certain times, an accurate descriptions of US/Israeli relations.Context is important.
    .
    And the last … “a lost tribe of Mallorcan Jews, what I regarded as a gratuitous reference to ‘the island’s wealthier families”.
    .
    I went to the original Guardian article, it had be censored.

  39. Andy, I agree. Calling the US slavish (servile might be a better word) in making the Arab world a more amenable place to Israel through NATO wars in the Middle East is not anti-Semitic, but a clear statement of fact. But that makes other NATO countries, including the UK, slavish too.

  40. What I think is happening at the Guardian is a prolonged campaign by one of these pro Israeli groups who complain to the editor etc,same is happening on the comment is free pages they just press the abuse button and report what they consider anti semitic comments but the reality is that these comments are anti Israeli government policy and anti the groups who push the Israel agenda in the media. It is disgraceful but anywhere on the internet is open to abuse by these people. The Guardian has gone well down in my estimation, This and the constant anti Assange stories have really made me not read the paper anymore. Their comment is free section also has an American section and you will find a lot of the pro war,pro Israeli viewpoint being aired there by Guardian guest writers.

  41. Sorry to be off topic but just received this email from Avaaz.org

    ‘…Three years ago, public pressure pushed through a ban of these cruel bombs. But now the US is lobbying nations to quietly sign a new law that allows their use — signing the death warrant for thousands of other children. Most countries are still on the fence on how to vote. Only if we raise the alarm across the world can we shame our governments to block this deadly decision.’

    Please sign the petition

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/cluster_bombs_ii_b/?vl

    I just signed a petition calling on the British government not to attack Iran.

    http://www.stopwar.iparl.com/petition/6

    Hope it’s not against the sites rules to solicit support.

  42. Joe Templeton

    11 Nov, 2011 - 8:08 pm

    You really cannot see why papers think twice about publishing allegations of a covert Jewish plot to subvert UK foreign policy?

    The answer must lie in a ‘Zionist lobby’? (Part of the proof for which lies in the quality of your work: it is ‘stunning’, you say.)

    The journalist Matthew Paris once asked Enoch Powell if he felt embarrassed by those who became his supporters. Powell affected not to be: ‘I take the support I can get.’ On any serious analysis, this was an inadequate response – it may not have reflected Powell’s true view.

    As I observed in a previous comment, you encourage the readers of your posts – through a combination,
    inter alia, of your erstwhile access to information, and their obvious vulnerability – in various most unfortunate beliefs. (For example, posts above refer to Zionist censorship, sinister control of the Israeli lobby, Zionist overlords, and one even implies that an Oxford academic was murdered by, or with the complicity of, the UK government.) It is unclear what, if any, responsibility you take for this.

    It is very sad. You simultaneously harm these people and damage your own credibility. Bluntly, if any part of the establishment has sought to marginalise you, then you play into its hands.

    I will not trouble you again with my views. But I would invite you to consider them, in the spirit of good faifh in which they are offered.

    they are intended.

  43. Haha, Craig-I followed the link to the Blair-Faith-Scandal. Have you noticed the deleted comments? Looks like Moderators running amok with chainsaws!

  44. The Guardian is loosing money -£35 million last year .I wonder if this has anything to do with it’s editorial policy ?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/guardian-to-cut-jobs-after-16335m-loss-2298699.html

  45. joe templeton Zionist censorship, sinister control of the Israeli lobby.

    Happens to be a fact which is well sourced,very well sourced. I suggest you do some real research before commenting on something you obviously know little about or are just trying to pour scorn on for no other reason that you support the Israeli side.

  46. I’m wondering if the Guardian and perhaps the Mail aren’t working on something of their own, from parallel sources. Both have been pretty active on the Foxwerritty story previously. Also I am wondering if the hasbara network hasn’t intensified its efforts as several sensitive matters coincided: the new offensive against Iran, the Gaza flotilla and the continuing efforts by the Palestinians at the UN.
    Your story will get read wherever you put it. But you’ll only be preaching to the converted if you put it here or on an identifiably antizionist medium. Catch-22. For what it’s worth, I suggest persisting with the MSM, and giving it a couple of days more. Can you talk face-to-face to some of the friendlier respondents to your emails? Or how about a large regional like the Yorkshire Post or EDP?

  47. Glasgow Herald, Press and Journal, Western Mail?

  48. Blair’s a piece of work, isn’t he? Couldn’t wait to get into Iraq, and now he’s bleeding St Francis? Horrible, horrible link, Craig. Please don’t do it again.

  49. John Goss: “Andy, I agree. Calling the US slavish (servile might be a better word) in making the Arab world a more amenable place to Israel through NATO wars in the Middle East is not anti-Semitic, but a clear statement of fact. But that makes other NATO countries, including the UK, slavish too.”
    .

    “Elliot, “references to Israel/U.S. ‘global domination’ and the term ‘slavish’ to describe the U.S. relationship with Israel… ”
    .
    What are these “references” ?

    Why are Guardian readers not allowed to debate.

  50. Israeli Lobby does not manipulate the Media, they Instruct them what to say, and how to say it
    ,
    although they were ‘embarrassed’ when found out
    ,
    Lorna Fitzsimons unwittingly spills the beans
    ,
    So there is no truth Craig Murray’s contentions, because his material is “libellous”, and that is why the various papers have not taken up his work. Furthermore the tactic of paying 200 quids hush money with promise of oodles more if published, don’t smack of suppression of truth.
    ,
    I am glad I found the “fraud” that Craig is, thanks to the ziophile shill trolling this site, I am convinced now, oh joy!
    ,
    PS why does anyone post in Guardian?

  51. Craig Murray, your blog has been there for me when I’ve felt like truth and honesty had gone down the drain.
    .
    Lots of Thanks.

  52. Andy, I would defend their (Guardian readers) rights to debate, and yours, but the admission of Elliot in the link you embedded to being anti-Semitic might appease readers of Jewish World, which seems likely what was lobbied for, but does not detract from the fact that US/Israel relations in certain contexts can be seen as slavish. The further fact that ‘global domination’ is on the US agenda with the full sanctioning of many Israeli lobbyists is clear to anyone with a brain that has kept an eye on world affairs over the past decade.

  53. After robustly defending Assange against the latest ghastly smear published in the Guardian, an appalling article written by a journalist called Karin Olsson from “Expressen” which is the Swedish version of The Sun, I got into really hot water on the Guardian’s Comment is Free site, which I jokingly dubbed Talk is Cheap.

    I was criticised by one of their journalists for being facually wrong in my description of the law on rape, without the said journalist saying whether he was referring to Swedish or UK rape laws, which I thought was highly relevant. But asking the question, questioning the competence of Guardian journalists, their level of knowledge of Swedish law in regard to uncorroberated witness testimony and whether or not such testimony could result in a conviction, without any physical evidence that a crime, had, in fact, been committed; was too much for the Guardian.

    First my comments about Swedish law and the minefield that is Swedish sexual/gender politics; were removed, then my comments about why they were removed where… removed, but without acknowledgement that they’ed been removed for unamed breeches of “community standards”, then I suddenly appeared on the “blacklist”, that is all my comments, on any subject, were suddenly subject to “pre-moderation” which effectively means… being banned from commenting on Talk is Cheap altogether, as an enemy of the Guardian.

    And it is somewhat galling to see Tony Blair, who in healthy and functioning democracy would already be behind bars for warcrimes, given space to wank off about his faith, in terms that can only be described as quasi-religious gobbledegook.

  54. I wonder, does anyone know if Alan Rusbridger is a Christian too, that is, Blair’s style of Christian?

  55. Jt – you have a very good point. The Guardian has been losing money hand over fist over the last couple of years, and has had to do some corporate restructuring. It appointed Andrew Miller as CEO last year. His previous job had been CFO of Trader Media Group, which is jointly owned by the Guardian’s parent, GMG, and Apax Partners. Apax Partners was founded by Sir Ronald Cohen, whose record is a bit ambiguous. On the one hand, he was given the Jubilee Award for services to Israeli business, by none other than Netanyahu; on the other, he is involved through the Portland Trust in developing the Palestinian private sector. Which could mean anything. Apax also has a dubious past which includes the disappearance of a workers’ pension fund. It has been associated with GMG in other partnerships.
    .
    I’m sure this post is completely off topic. Unless the Guardian is cash-strapped, in which case I’m not so sure.

  56. “But you’ll only be preaching to the converted if you put it here or on an identifiably antizionist medium. Catch-22. For what it’s worth, I suggest persisting with the MSM, and giving it a couple of days more. Can you talk face-to-face to some of the friendlier respondents to your emails?”
    .
    That would be my reaction too. Can you phone them? They’ll hardly refuse to take your calls? If all goes to all you could go to e.g. Information Clearing House, but much better to be published in the British MSM if possible. (No wonder you were pissed off, by the way!)

  57. Of interest?
    .
    AFGHANISTAN PUBLIC MEETING IN PARLIAMENT
    .
    6.30pm, Tuesday 22 November
    House of Commons
    Committee Room 9, House of Commons, SW1A 0AA
    (St Stephens entrance, nearest tube Westminster)
    .
    Organised by the Afghanistan Withdrawal Group of MPs
    Supported by Stop the War Coalition
    .
    The Russians in Afghanistan 1979-89
    LESSONS FOR TODAY
    Speaker: Rodric Braithwaite
    Chair: Paul Flynn MP
    .
    Rodric Braithwaite is author of the much-reviewed Afgantsy: The Russians in
    Afghanistan, 1979-89, published in March this year. A former diplomat who spent
    much of his career dealing with Russia, Braithwaite was British Ambassador in
    Moscow at the time of the Soviet withdrawal.

  58. This is why we need to set up a comprehensive online newspaper with contributors experienced in particular fields.

    Issues the government wants buried can be kept on the boil. Issues such as the death of Dr Kelly in which a doctor has started proceedings for a judicial review of Grieve’s decision not to hold a coroner’s inquest.

  59. The Guardian Media Group’s chief financial officer, also a recent arrival, also came from Trader Media (co-prop, Apax). His name is Darren Singer. According to TM’s website, both Miller and Singer are GMG’s representatives on the TM board. Cosy. I’d ask how much control the Scott Trust has over GMG policy these days. If I thought it knew.
    .
    *bite*

  60. “You simultaneously harm these people and damage your own credibility.” Joe Templeton.
    .
    What an astonishingly patronising paragraph that was. There may be some content here with which one would – and (if you had ever bothered really to read) does – take issue. But your attempt to denigrate Craig Murray and all the variegated contributors to his blog, drawing on selected snippets, smacks of nothing more than vanity.
    .
    And what part of your work, may I ask, might be representative of your immense literary, communicative, or political skills? Can you demonstrate that you are ‘unharmed’ and therefore different and better? Or is a sign of being ‘unharmed’ simply that one backs everything the power structures say and do?

  61. Cowards and cretins, all of them, Craig. Publish it yourself. We will all cascade it.

  62. Craig, give them a few more days and if they persist in their pusillanimity, publish it on your blog and I’ll do my best to spread it around a few sites with decent readership and included a note (with a link back to your post) that the mainstream media wouldn’t touch it. In that way, we might shame the msm into saying something about it. Not holding my breath on that last one though.

  63. Here is Sir Ronald Cohen, founder of Apax, which co-owns Trader Media with the Guardian Media Group, addressing the 2011 Herzliya Conference:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hquKC8XALHw
    .
    Hands up who can remember who else was there?
    .
    Clue: red, bushy tail, dog family?

  64. Sorry to stuff up your blog, Craig, but one of the sponsors of the Herzliya Conference 2011 was Tamares. Another familiar name in the context of Foxwerrity…Zabludowicz is its CEO…hope this isn’t getting into your article’s territory.

  65. Getting back to the Guardian deleting comments that tell the truth about Israeli pressure groups in the media and on politicians. I had a reply to my query asking why they were deleted. Basically it is accusing me of being an anti semite and posting hate speech. Here it is.

    Dear Harry,

    Your comments used anti-Semitic tropes about Jewish control of the media
    along with other over-generalisations about “the Jews”. Unless your
    comments cease to include what appears to be hate speech, your posting
    privileges will remain restricted or will be withdrawn, in line with points
    4 and 5 of our community standards.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/community-standards

    Best wishes,
    Sarah

    Moderator

  66. At risk of using an antisemitic trope, I am wondering if “Sarah” is herself of the, er, well, you know, that faith? If so, I believe the word is “chutzpah”. There was a piece in the Guardian a few days ago stating its new policy on antisemitic tropes, and I got the impression that even mentioning antisemitic tropes is now considered an antisemitic trope.
    .
    Ronald Cohen, founder of Apax, which co-owns Trader Media with the Guardian Media Group, (in case you’d missed it), and whose property company Portland Capital, sharing palatial London offices with the extremely opaque “charity” Portland Trust, went bang a year or two ago, has been having discussions with the Big Society Government about the Big Society Bank…it’s the society which is big, not the bank,,,,
    .
    http://whoslobbying.com/uk/ronald_cohen
    .
    It’s all out there, hacks. All you have to do is look.

  67. Craig, this:

    “Stephen,

    I used to think you were a friendly and interesting commentator putting forward a different view, but now I realise you are just a troll. Of course the article is properly sourced, and it follows proper journalistic ethics, ie those criticised have been asked for their viewpoint. As I plainly stated, several national newspapers have fact-checked it and the facts are fine.

    Do you see a single querying of fact in the above exchanges? If there is a fear of libel – and nobody has ever sued me for libel, unlike for example convicted libellers Iain Dale and Guido Fawkes – the newspaper calls you in to go through it with the lawyer. I have been there many times before.

    This is nothing to do with libel or with doubted facts. Now stop being an obvious arse.”

    shows that you have seriously lost the plot. I expect that editors no longer wish to be associated with someone so evidently unbalanced. It would not be good for their credibility.

  68. “You really cannot see why papers think twice about publishing allegations of a covert Jewish plot to subvert UK foreign policy?

    The answer must lie in a ‘Zionist lobby’? (Part of the proof for which lies in the quality of your work: it is ‘stunning’, you say.)

    The journalist Matthew Paris once asked Enoch Powell if he felt embarrassed by those who became his supporters. Powell affected not to be: ‘I take the support I can get.’ On any serious analysis, this was an inadequate response – it may not have reflected Powell’s true view.

    As I observed in a previous comment, you encourage the readers of your posts – through a combination,
    inter alia, of your erstwhile access to information, and their obvious vulnerability – in various most unfortunate beliefs. (For example, posts above refer to Zionist censorship, sinister control of the Israeli lobby, Zionist overlords, and one even implies that an Oxford academic was murdered by, or with the complicity of, the UK government.) It is unclear what, if any, responsibility you take for this.

    It is very sad. You simultaneously harm these people and damage your own credibility. Bluntly, if any part of the establishment has sought to marginalise you, then you play into its hands.

    I will not trouble you again with my views. But I would invite you to consider them, in the spirit of good faifh in which they are offered.

    they are intended.”

    Spot on.

  69. Bear Spot on.

    Well no it is not spot on. It is rubbish.Please stop trolling.

  70. It would be good to see the article and judge for ourselves. The law of the land permitting. It doesn’t look as if the emails above are concerned that this might be an issue. Personally, I don’t think zionism has much to do with the matter. It is merely a convenient network for a lot of rich people with access to it and a wish to become even richer. I’m following the money.

  71. Yes it would be nice to see the article but I think Craig wants it in the main stream media and wants to get paid for it. I do not blame him for that he did the work.

  72. That Swedish journalist who attacked Assange was eager to link him to the son of the “anti-semite” Israel Shamir (so it’s not really about rape after all, is it darling?). I think the Guardian should be renamed The Witchhunter. It seems to have whole-heartedly devoted itself to the hysterical cause of anti-anti-semitism.

    Screw the MSM. Go for Counterpunch Craig.

  73. Israel seems to be the only country where they still have a free press. Try Ha’aretz, or JePo.

  74. I wonder who will replace Alderman Bear today? Bear will carry on ‘opening’ Britain for business in his enthusiasm for small business ventures while carrying the cross of St.John.
    .
    http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=227646

  75. It’s possible, I suppose, that The Guardian has been working on this story as well? And they can’t print Craig’s article because it interferes with – or is better than – their own investigations?
    .
    No, I don’t believe that either. Likely some senior editor has nixed it for political or ideological reasons. We should be wary of assuming The Guardian is our friend, just because the hacking story is good. It is good, but The Guardian is a liberal-establishment newspaper, and some of its sources – not to mention it’s journalists – have links to securitat, of that I am in no doubt. There is a curious mainstream belief that propaganda is something They do, whilst We of course are above such things. Or maybe there is no such wide-spread belief, and the existence of such a belief is propaganda in itself.
    .
    I’m depressing myself now. Whatever, all I know is that banker is now PM of Greece, without even a Soviet-style fake election, never mind an actual election. Thus we are left with little other choice but to consider conspiracies.

  76. Having been an avid reader of your blog since its beginnings I am much surprised that you would waste your time submitting stories to the main stream media (I don’t so waste my time on such readings and this is why I read your blog and others).
    I would respectfully request that you make contact with Russia Today (rt.com) and I do look forward to seeing you as a regular interviewee thereon. Also you could consider presstv.com and
    http://globalresearch.ca/

  77. Re BarryR38 an al jazera not being as good anymore. He is correct. A Qatari prince has been put in charge just as the first of the “we must protect the poor citizens of Libya” protestations were made. The utter crap and pro nato had eminated from them after that make now no more reliable than the British Bullshit and Crap news service.

    As to there being no zionist lobby pressuring media, academia and Govts through out the western world to not criticise israel or zionists in general. whoever thinks that has obviosly just awoken from a decades long coma and has some serious catching up to do !!

  78. The Guardian is, incidentally correct in admitting to having published anti-Semitic statements, i.e., statements critical of Israel. Such statements come within the definition of the so-called “new anti-semitism”, which has actually been around since the 50′s when Abba Eban and others asserted that it was imperative to define criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism.
    .
    I see nothing actually wrong with this, although as I have argued elsewhere on this blog, it is a decision that may come back to bite Israel, and Jews in general, since if legitimate, fair and factual criticism of Israel can be correctly labelled anti-Semitism, then there is no shame in being an anti-Semite, any more than there is shame in condemning US imperialism or British toadyism to Israel and the United States, etc.
    .
    Criticism of nations is an essential part of just about any political discussion. No one called the vilification of Saddam or of Gadhafi, anti-Iraqism or anti-Libyaism, it would have been simply silly to do so. Condemning anti-Semitism may eventually come to be seen as equally silly.
    .
    But in any case, as anti-Semitism is now generally defined, it seems a near certainty that your article on Werrity et al. comes within the definition of anti-Semitism.
    .
    What is bizarre is that the Guardian, and perhaps the rest of the British media, should give a damn about being anti-Semitic, which as that term is now defined, by no means necessarily implies dislike of jews as jews or holocaust denial or any of the reprehensible things that have been called anti-Semitic.

  79. Abandon the lamestream media.

  80. Al Jazeera was to the fore in putting out fake,doctored and inconsequential videos at the start of the Libyan uprising all for the purpose of getting a no fly zone engineered,(and a relentless campaign of bombing), with the help in the UK of the the Henry Jackson Society. Shady outfit. Iraq, Libya – what’s the difference? Regime change is regime change. Why is everybody giving Cameron, Hague and his cronies an easy ride over this, not least the Guardian crowd?

  81. In my opinion, the reaction to your piece is a feather in your cap, and proves quite nicely that you’re a journalist, rather than a propagandist. Just to be sure I get to read it, please have the piece tattooed on your body so that, worst case scenario, it can be read off your corpse in the woods should those psychopaths get hold of you ;)

  82. Joe Templeton

    ‘It is very sad. You simultaneously harm these people and damage your own credibility. Bluntly, if any part of the establishment has sought to marginalise you, then you play into its hands.’

    I have just come out of a battle with members of my family and their solicitor about a document relating to a will. It hadn’t been signed by one of the parties, so the solicitor suggested that I had tried to force someone to an agreement against their will. The adversarial system of UK law unearths the untrue and irrelevant, and impedes justice, rationality and peace.
    Keep lying until you convince them you are telling the truth, was the sad policy of the British in Northern Ireland, and they rightly replied, no truth, no justice.
    The UK has never considered justice to be relevant to itself, except what it can squeeze from weasel lawyers. I sacked one divorce lawyer on the grounds that it was already bad enough without him making things worse.
    So Craig, they don’t like you knowing, speaking, or revealing the truth. The conclusion of this week’s battle was that the said solicitor wrote privately to his client, ‘Of course he doesn’t know that we have found a copy of the document with your signature on it.’
    So, Mr Templeman, may I repeat the conversation I had with him?
    He said, ‘You’ve been to Oxford and Westminster School, WHY DO YOU PLAY INTO THEIR HANDS by raising these matters while they are under stress?’
    ‘Because if I don’t it may be too late’ I replied.
    ‘I realised that the boys I was at school with were deeply unethical at the time, and my opinion of them has worsened over the last 30 years. These same professional minds have bombed Muslim countries for a decade, destroyed civil liberties, and are about to destroy the NHS. They have gone from unethical to corrupt.’

    The fact is, that the internet has put a spanner in the works of English establishment lying technique. They are being carried off the pitch by the US and Israel, and if we keep up the pressure, they will admit defeat. That’s what the Zionists want, an excuse for the New Masonic World Order. There is a worse confusion to come after the existing system falls, but our success in destroying this one will give us hope for destroying the next.

  83. Even Gideon Levy of Ha’aretz, considered a moderate and whom I have heard speak, is demonizing Iran.
    .
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/11/red-flag-demonization/

  84. Have the Israelis been giving the Turks lessons?
    .
    Shades of the way the Mavi Marmara was dealt with?
    .
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15701025

  85. Thanks for the many suggestions on publication. I should explain that the article is written for a UK newspaper audience and presupposes a basic understanding of the Fox-Werritty affair and who these people are. If I start explaining the entire thing to a US audience – who have an entirely different civil service and lobbying culture – it will get very long and tedious. So the various US sites are not the best place for primary publication. I hope that international media will pick up on it and present and explain it to their particular audiences.

    Presuming nobody in the mainstream media grows any balls this weekend, I shall post the article on this blog on Monday (we do actually have a larger readership than some of the suggestions) with an appeal to copy and disseminate it was widely as possible.

  86. I hate to appear to be quibbling when there are deeper issues of censorship, which I abhor.
    But I do wish we could get away from the words ‘anti-semite’ and ‘anti-semitism’ in the general context of use as here.
    Every time it is used you play right into the zionists hands and their victimhood.
    You recognise their right, as a specific racial group, to a claim to part of the middle east.
    The biggest anti-semites on the planet are the Israelis, few of whom are semites. They are caucasian from the caucasus regions around Georgia and Southern Russia. They are ‘jews’ only by the adoption of judaism some thousand years ago.
    By using the word anti-semite – the Israeli occupiers of Palestine’s favourite phrase – you confer a semite legitimacy on them they don’t have and which, the more known it becomes, damages their occupation among those who genuinely believe they do have some genetic or other claim to the Western part of Palestine.
    God, of course, never promised a savage tribe of central Europeans any part of that portion of the planet.
    We should be stressing that. Virtually every Israeli leader has been born an eastern European because that is what they are.

  87. It is astonishing how a reference to a piece Craig has written about Werrity and Iran is hijacked by obsessives hereabouts who want to write about the Zionist conspiracy or similar bollocks. I haven’t got a handle on the whole Werrity thing yet. There have been suggestions he is gay and so is Fox, who just liked having him around. But then there are ideological suggestions, with Werrity being supposed to be a kind of right-wing Iago, which I don’t understand at all, because if Fox wants to be right wing he doesn’t need a Being There kind of character to make it happen. I don’t know, but Craig’s piece might seem to fall into this kind of paranoid conspiracy area, and I am not saying that is what the piece actually does, because I haven’t seen it, but newspaper executives might just consign it to that category, because they are thinking of the front page news piece they would have to write to back it up.

  88. Wiz,

    No, the piece is in fact about a real zionist conspiracy, to start a war with Iran.

  89. Maybe Press TV would like to have a last splash before Ofcom shuts their doors. Wikipedia has already got a network set up, I know they are skinned, but how much skinned they are I dare not guess, they might be bale to pay in instalments, have you tried Craig?

    Another angle might be the Irish press, with Higgins elected and their boat being subjected to piracy on the high seas, they might just have enough balls to go for it.
    If one of them publishes it, paid or not, it is automatically in the domain of all others. Then you would see who has the balls to pick it up and/or who is scared about the hasbara vitriolics that will follow.
    It must be a very hot potato, not just here, the fact that the Israeli media totally wiped the story of their news speaks volumnes.
    Watch yourself Craig, and have a second copy deposited somewhere, just in case. This website, should you decide to publish on monday, will be the target of all sorts, so MODS beware, a back up of sorts might be a good preventative measure.

    Finally, Wendy’s pro active idea is heartening, when will we stop chatting here and get proactive, we create hope and offer debate, but we never think of becoming and forming an alternative to this ramshackelled outfit.

    Lets organise a New Alternative politics conference, somewhere cheap and available, somewhere centrally on a mainline, not necessarrily in London, so as many can attend as possible, share lifts and then have a whole days worth of decisive talk, come away with concrete plans for a new direction.

    An alliance of Independent candidates, with or without a common goal/ten point policy programme/ a new party, anything that offers the mainstream a new direction that is not nobbled, is what is needed.
    This story, if it runs, will rupture the msm and the established party’s, with their resident BICOM infiltrators, it will also provide the momentum for something new and hopefull.

    Exited like a coiled spring…

  90. I stopped doing Press TV a couple of years ago. It is important to be aware of whose agenda you are serving, and I have no desire to serve a regime that hangs young gays from cranes in public. Because I do not think it is helpful either for those young gays and countless other innocents to get pulverised by US and Israeli bombs, does not make me a fan of Ahmadinejad.

  91. Craig, everyone knew that Cheney wanted to start a war with Iran. That’s why Blair is still going round saying it would be a good idea. It’s the ‘blood price’, or whatever weird rubbish he came up with to justify our adventure in Iraq. There are these weirdoes who want to start a war. If there were some kind of proof that Fox wanted to invade Iran that would be news, undoubtedly. But if it’s just Werrity, it’s just a gay weirdo, or something. I just don’t understand the whole Werrity thing. Was he important, or not?

  92. Wiz,

    You will have to wait to read the piece. No, it is by no means just a gay weirdo.

  93. I’ll have a copy when you get around to releasing it …make it viral.

    mickmcc(AT)live.com

    mick

  94. OK, so you don’t like press TV, fine, what about the Irish press, would it be worth your while to try there, they have a straight line on the mavi marmara affair and not much crux with Israel’s machinations.
    How about sending it straight to the new poet/Presient Higgins at the same time you have got an OK from one of their papers?

  95. Craig – please publish your article here, and take up some of the suggestions for alternative publishers up-thread. We all want to read it (except perhaps Stephen! – and you’re right, he is a troll!).

    Re the Guardian – see this website for what happened re the ‘Peterloo Massacre’ group, and what they’re doing now.

    http://otmpeterloo.wordpress.com/

    #OTMP

  96. If the mainstream media is so pro-Zionist, why does it give live radio time to Syrian Arab springers pleading for NATO air-protection, in other words Libya-style air-bombardment at 7 a.m. this morning on Radio 4?
    Like those fish that tuck under the water-stream of sharks.
    There is an obvious alliance between Muslim activists and UKUSIS + Saudi, their sweetheart, foreign policy.
    There is also an obvious drama of emnity being projected to the UK public between UKUSIS and Iran, their family pet mad dog.
    Perhaps the mainstream press know that the Israeli plot to start a war against Iran is as phoney as the recent restaurant assassination plot in the US? What do you think, Craig?
    Sometimes rats can get to know that the blue-green grain is bait. Sorry to mix metaphors. They are the ones mixing ideologies, until it is extremely difficult to understand who is on who’s side and why.

  97. I do hope that, by describing the prevarications to which he has been subject, one of Craig’s correspondents in the MSM takes courage and publishes the article. Airing something in one organ of the MSM often results in the others taking an interest in the story, pied-piper like.

    If that doesn’t happen, for once I can say, on a Saturday morning, that I’m looking forward to what’s in store next Monday.

  98. You are not “antizionist” ……….. THEY are antiGENTILE.
    You are PRO-the-People-They-HATE, which is ALL NON-Jews.
    This does not even SUGGEST that you are anti-Jewish, you are just PRO-YOURSELF.
    antiGENTILISM is the cause of the mythical “antisemitism”, Humanity did not invent antisemitism, and then wait thousands of years for a Jew to come along, so Humanity could hate him for absolutely no reason. Judaism codified hate of all NON-Jews into their belief system, and worked hard to EARN the contempt of all Humanity.

  99. You can’t publish anti-Zionist stuff on the liberal white media.
    This is because liberal whites are shit scared of being accused of anti-Semitism.

  100. Craig it wouldn’t surprise me if even you, have some fear about being called it.
    When I read your articles on it, I do get the slight feeling you seem to pull your punches a bit when it comes to Israel as compared to any other country you right about?

    Israel is a career destroyer.
    You can attack the policies of any other country to whatever level you desire, but touch Israel.
    Well, that is a no no, it means you are tainted for life.
    And people will fear being associated with you.

  101. elisabeth angel

    12 Nov, 2011 - 12:56 pm

    Well, Craig,

    You have not published my previous comment, at which I am not surprised — but perhaps you took note of what I said and will do some research on the subject yourself if you have not already.

    It is a topic that is even more radioactive than the Zionist lobby conspiring to start a war with Iran, and for a good reason: as I said in my previous comment the truth about it undermines the whole existing world order.

    Thanks for reading this.

  102. Elisabeth,

    Having spent four years at the British Embassy in Warsaw and having a chance to see for myself, meet eye witnesses and gather a great deal of genuine first hand information, I am firmly of the view that holocaust deniers are simply nuts and sometimes not well motivated. I don’t allow the victims – jewish, gypsy, polish or other slav, gay, political activists – to be insulted here.

  103. At risk of seeming obsessive, here’s the latest deal between Trader Media and the Guardian. Which looks to me very much like Apax (prop. Sir Ronald Cohen, who accepted the Jubilee Award for services to business in Israel from Netanyahu’s own hand -see above -) bailing out Guardian Media Group as its cashflow problems deepen:
    .
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/08/guardianmediagroup-pressandpublishing
    .
    If it is asserted that the MSM are being pressured to keep the spotlight off Israel, some substantiation is a good idea. I’ve tried to provide this in my posts above. The Guardian has suddenly become pusillanimous on a sensitive subject. Why?
    .
    Follow the money, not the ethnicity.

  104. Laser Eye Surgery, is done privately, over the years the cost of laser eye surgery has fallen heavily, is this an example of private companies doing good. I had an idea that we could test if private companies really could be cheaper than the NHS, why not say if you break your left leg you go to NHS and if you break your right leg you can go private. over time we can monitor which is cheaper, The NHS is good in theory but is very corrupt in the sense it is easy to steal from it.

  105. Dear Craig Murray

    I have recently learned that david cameron at the age of 24 went to south africa and helped the Iraeli’s to obtain 9 nuclear weapons is this true, is it is why has not the mainstream media said anything.

    Also the fact that an Israeli Arms dealer helped to fund David Camerons leadership campaign.

  106. Larry

    Three nuclear weapons, I think. I don’t racall all the detail but I have known about it since around 1993.

  107. I notice Muslims, Arabs and Palestinians are not present on that list?
    I have also noticed many of the Zionists trolls here are free to insult them without limits, but my counter insults are deleted?

  108. “Have you tried Al Jazeera website?”
    .
    .
    hahaha al jazeera ??? hahahaha
    .
    .
    you might as well send it to fox news these days

  109. “The ridiculous censorship is so endemic that no one dares to even call it censorship, the fear sewn by the zionist overlords has got everyone running for cover.”
    .
    .
    apart from losing ones job .. i suspect its also the inherent threat of losing ones life .. as we know zionists / neo cons arent to be crossed lightly

  110. elisabeth angel

    12 Nov, 2011 - 2:04 pm

    So are you saying that you are unwilling to examine the forensic and other evidence for yourself? It doesn’t take very long to look at a few scholarly papers. One side of an argument usually sounds convincing until you hear the other side.

    For my whole life I believed the conventional view of the Holocaust without question until a few years ago when, after reading about how the historical narrative on the founding of Israel had changed following the release of classified documents in 1998, I took it one step further and started researching what had gone on in Europe that preceded and enabled the founding of Israel.

    I notice that you say you don’t allow the “victims” to be “insulted.” What is insulting about my suggesting that people do research on a topic and decide the truth for themselves? Facts are either true or false — they are not insulting; they are what they are. People’s responses to them may vary, but the truth is merely the truth.

    And the truth is, apparently, that this topic is the very hottest of potatoes, and you are now experiencing a little bit of the same disquieted feeling that the mainstream media editors experienced in reading your article.

    Those editors have, of course, very cogent reasons to think carefully before printing your article — just as you have for not publishing comments normalizing “holocaust denial,” on your site — which is why I wrote that I was not surprised you hadn’t published my first comment.

  111. I’ve abstracted this, omitting commentary which may or may not be justified, and redacting antisemitic tropes, from a conspiracist website which has nevertheless done some interesting research. Is it inaccurate?

    In the British press (Sir Ronald) Cohen is portrayed as a wealthy …ish supporter of (Gordon) Brown and New Labour. Cohen’s third wife, the Los Angeles-born Sharon Harel-Cohen, is usually described as a film producer whose father, Yossi Harel, commanded the …ish refugee ship that became known as Exodus in 1947. Her Israeli nationality is seldom discussed.

    What the controlled media doesn’t tell us about Sharon Harel-Cohen is that she is an Israeli-American whose father was one of the founding chiefs of the Mossad and Israeli military intelligence until his death in April 2008….

    …Sharon Ruth Harel was born in Los Angeles on March 6, 1952. Her mother, a “Julie Berez” married Mossad officer Joseph Hamburger (a.k.a. Yossi Harel) in 1950 while he was stationed in Los Angeles. Harel was, most likely, engaged in the illegal procurement of weapons, ships, planes, and military technology for the Israeli military. The reports that Harel, one of the highest Mossad agents, was studying at UCLA or M.I.T. are neither substantiated nor credible; this was only his cover. Harel also had two sons, whose names are not known to the author.
    .
    But Cohen is no blind Labour backer. He has his snout firmly in the Big Society trough, and is well-known to Cameron:
    .
    http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/news/Article/1082559/Big-Society-Bank-changes-name-appoints-chair-chief-executive/

  112. Three 18.5 Kt weapons, it was:
    …young Tory researcher, David Cameron (under the apron strings of Maggie Thatcher), went to South Africa on a sanctions-busting all-expenses-paid trip (paid by ARMSCOR) to Pellindaba, a nuclear weapons facility. David Cameron was accompanied by Sir Kenneth Warren and the purpose of the trip was to purchase three, battlefield ready 20kt nuclear bombs that the Conservatives wanted to use on Saddam in the event he did not toe the line. (Peter Eyre, cited on whale.to)
    .
    And he lost them. Apparently they never reached Iran:
    http://freedomnewsnetwork.co.uk/al-qaeda-and-thatchers-missing-nukes-2
    Kelly is also mentioned…

  113. Damn. For Iran read Oman above.

  114. @ Wendy,
    Ditto, I was roflpmp too.
    Some of these posters are a little bit behind the curve in the fast moving world. Say, suffering from inertia, if it cannot be misconstrued as uncharitable.
    ,
    ,
    ,
    Craig,
    What about the she devil Thatcher hand outs to Israel (whilst she was cutting on all the services, and starting the generational long austerity UK has been under) covering the costs of the development of Israeli nukes in South Africa, and their test blasts thereof in the same continent?

    Also not forgetting David Ysrael Davids, the Foreign office chappy whom went to Israel and reported back to Tony Benn the then Minister; all is well, and Israelis are not making nukes. That is before UK supplied the Lithium Six isotopes for the said nukes too.

    I love the smell of Democracy, and accountability in the morning.

  115. Well done Craig in reminding your readership that press TV is nothing but a front for those lovable rogues in Iran, and that the Holocaust did actually happen…

  116. “I stopped doing Press TV a couple of years ago. It is important to be aware of whose agenda you are serving, and I have no desire to serve a regime that hangs young gays from cranes in public. Because I do not think it is helpful either for those young gays and countless other innocents to get pulverised by US and Israeli bombs, does not make me a fan of Ahmadinejad.”
    .
    .
    well its not as if we dont do nasty things here or abroad .. we have just finished being responsible for the deaths of upto 50 000 libyans, already some 30 000 afghans and of course possibly a million plus iraqis ..
    .
    .
    the issue is that you want a message to be broadcast but youre not going to do it because of presstv and iran but youre quite prepared for it to be published via bbc/guardian who are as agenda driven as anything else and have been driven by anti iran propaganda regardless of the facts surrounding the iaea reports.
    .
    .
    the issue is the message, of course your message will be manipulated where ever you go .. but dont you expect that some of your readers/listeners will have the intelligence to separate the corporate/state agenda from the facts that you are wanting to send out?
    .
    .
    again you have to have the “george galloway” view – make it clear where you stand .. that they are your views alone .. and drive home the message. at this level then any media outlet is just as much your tool as anyone else and stick to live broadcasts.

  117. Arsalan,

    you catch me on a point of genuine ignorance. I genuinely don’t know if the Nazis sent Muslims to concentration camps. I am inciled to think that if they had done so in great numbers, I would have come across it.

    Elisabeth Angel

    you seem no to read the bit when I say that I know that the holocaust happened from my own observation of physical evidence and eyewitness accounts I heard while I served in Poland. I almost certainly have more first hand experience of the actual evidence than you do.

  118. “Well done Craig in reminding your readership that press TV is nothing but a front for those lovable rogues in Iran, and that the Holocaust did actually happen…”
    .
    .
    however distasteful and ugly ahmedinejads view is (and he plays the numbers game not that persecution of jews didnt happen) he does have the right to question the official story .. what the guardian and channel4 might call ‘fact check’ not that it didnt happen but that it did happen but not quite in the way as defined in stone. curiously whilst one cannot deny the holocaust it is open season to deny islam, muslims .
    .
    .
    the truth will always expose , just as it has exposed blair, cameron , ahmedinejad and to the point it would appear werrity/fox .. we should all be open to debate .. and criticism .. isnt that what we are told – the way that all muslims should behave?

  119. “TEHRAN (Reuters) – A massive explosion at a military arms depot near the Iranian capital Tehran killed 15 servicemen [Revolutionary Guards] on Saturday and seriously wounded several others, in what officials were treating as an accident …
    There were no reports linking the blast to any air strike or other attack.”
    .
    I suppose it could be an accident. But I keep thinking of that $740 million GW Bush got for ‘ops’ inside Iran. I imagine Obama’s budget is even more … If I was an Iranian Joe Soap I’d be suspicious of everything these days.

  120. Nuid,
    Giver over mate, the munitions were getting moved around and some w*ankhand has managed to drop some.
    Chose where you get your news from.

  121. “I have written a stunning piece… ”

    Ha ha.

    That statement shows precisely what’s wrong with you.

  122. Passerby,
    Drop your “I know everything” tone on this blog. It’s getting tiresome.

  123. “Damn. For Iran read Oman above.”
    .
    im sorry but i refuse to.

  124. I do agree with Wendy – I know two wrongs don’t make a right yet I put my hands up to being a regular contributor to PressTV and the Iranian World Service.
    .
    Pollok
    .
    Those ‘lovable rogues’ in Iran deserve better than your frivolous comment regarding the Holocaust. Do your research first and realise PressTV is not a carriage for propaganda or the fake scenarios we have recently witnessed on al-Jazeera.

  125. It is a great pity that Craig’s piece is not being published by the corporate media (I never use the term mainstream) and that he is not going to get a fee. I read endless entries on the MPs’ register of interests where they declare sums into £thousands. The drive of some of them to increase their wealth is ceaseless. However the readership here is now enormous and there are many new names appearing on the blog.
    .
    If another war is waged it will be added to this horrendously long list which commences in 1900. Little Israel’s name crops up many times since 1948.

    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_2003%E2%80%932010

  126. “Chose where you get your news from”
    .
    And what getting news of an explosion outside Tehran from Reuters, via Yahoo, has to do with anything is beyond me. It was a report of a fact. Period.

  127. Some interesting stats on alexa.
    eg
    Upstream Sites
    Which sites did users visit immediately preceding craigmurray.org.uk?
    .
    % of Unique Visits Percent of visits to craigmurray.org.uk (uniqued daily by user) preceded by a visit to the upstream site.

    Upstream Site
    30.00% google.com
    26.67% twitter.com
    23.33% guardian.co.uk
    20.00% facebook.com

    .
    Downstream Sites
    Where do visitors go after leaving craigmurray.org.uk?
    .
    % of Unique Visits Percent of visits to craigmurray.org.uk (uniqued daily by user) followed by a visit to the downstream site.
    Downstream Site
    28.57% google.com
    23.81% twitter.com
    19.05% google.co.uk
    14.29% facebook.com
    14.29% guardian.co.uk
    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/craigmurray.org.uk#

  128. Therefore suggest posting it on http://en-gb.facebook.com/people/Craig-Murray/512617429 and linking on twitter as usual {http://twitter.com/#!/CraigMurrayOrg}

  129. “elisabeth angel”.
    .
    Spit it out! I can’t stand all this waffle about how you thought XYZ then realized that ABC was true. If you want to deny the Holocaust then say it out loud and stop being such a mealy-mouthed dissident.
    .
    I really hate this kind of wishy-washyness.

  130. Mark Golding says: Those ‘lovable rogues’ in Iran deserve better than your frivolous comment regarding the Holocaust. Do your research first and realise PressTV is not a carriage for propaganda or the fake scenarios we have recently witnessed on al-Jazeera.

    .
    You really need to be far down the rabbit hole to think that Press TV, an Iranian state-sponsored media outlet is in no way a propaganda station. And yes, I can show you plenty of evidence that Press TV supports Holocaust denial.
    .
    I don’t expect it to concern people like Mark Golding, of course. He’s far down the rabbit hole.

  131. Mary: those stats are very fishy, adding up to exactly 100% like that. They suggest that all of Craig’s visitors come from and go to those 5 sites.

  132. hungryghost pinholemouth

    12 Nov, 2011 - 3:50 pm

    Had to struggle to get over my respect for preeminent publications myself. Sometimes you just end up writing samizdat. Then media rejection is a testament to your integrity. That’s what counterpunch.org, truthout.org, zcommunications.org are for.

  133. Try some Jewish or Israeli blogs – they are much more open and truthful than the MSM

    mondoweiss.net
    972mag.com
    http://www.richardsilverstein.com

    I would have suggested Haaretz also, but I think it is now under new management.

  134. Talking of concentration camps and mass murder within, check out the forgotten one.
    The one written out of history – a history that bears examination unlike some others.
    I write of course of Jasenovac.
    Where our christian!! Serb allies died in probably their hundred thousands murdered by the croatians in ways even their Nazi friends considered barbaric and sub human.
    Whether this camp is forgotten because the victims were christian and therefore unmemorable and not worth the endless reparations that some demand – including, incredibly a fleet of nuclear capable submarines – the latest blood offering demanded from the German taxpayer – or whether we have no wish to embarrass either ourselves or the Croatians, who knows.
    The fact that we attacked Serbia in a frenzied Blairite pushed neo/con neo lib war is sickening.
    They were fighting a CIA/MI6/german intel/Bin Laden (yes really!!) created islamic fundamentalist terror organization armed, financed and sponsored by the US and Britain in particular and we bombed the defenceless civilian population from 30,000 feet for 78 days and unrelenting nights.
    We bombed and then watched over half a million of our WW2 allies ethnically cleansed by the Nazi supporting Abanians and Croatians.
    Why – for the black ops of the CIA drug trafficking cartel who wanted a non Serb Kosovo – now the European base. Quibbles over pipe lines and Caspian oil and for a great fat American base – Camp Bondsteel
    And we conveniently write Jasenovac, which played a part in the ethnic tensions of the last conflict, out of history.
    If good people had stood up against the completely illegal attack on the Serbs deliberately engineered by Blair and the Clinton admin, there may have been no Iraq,no Afghanistan and no Libya.
    The lies told against the Serbs were as phony and grievous as any others told. Sadly, unlike today, they had no alternative way of getting out their side of the story. NATO even took out their only TV station killing nearly 20 civilians – which was actually a war crime. But then NATO can commit the grossest of war crimes with impunity.

  135. Angrysober
    .
    You cannot imagine what I have found at the bottom of your rabbit hole – I’ll tell you we I arrive back from the other side…

  136. Mary,
    Don’t you think this site is under attack by the usual suspects?
    Searching for what? Twitting about what? and going to Guardian that is the pits of the universe and totally owned.

  137. Yes, we should all speak out against genocide, including today’s genocide of the European peoples through mass abortion, demoralization through mass unemployment, indoctrination in the guise of education, and mass immigration of people differing from the aboriginal population in race, religion and culture.

  138. So, the Stephen reincarnated as a Bear. How befitting.
    .
    RT would propably take the story but as you say might not be the ideal forum. Al-Jazerra is a complete joke.
    .
    Craig, thank you again for being a human with integrity. Don’t underestimate the power of this blog, it will spread. In the misty sea of greedy zionism you shine like a lighthouse.

  139. Mark Golding,
    I am right next to you in the rabbit hole, in fact we are legion in the rabbit hole. Why do you even bother answering back? Waste of good energy, don’t you think?

  140. Mark, You cannot imagine what I have found at the bottom of your rabbit hole – I’ll tell you we I arrive back from the other side…

    .
    I have said some nasty things about you in my time and I think I shouldn’t have said such things. But you really need to stop thinking that Press TV is an “independent news station”.

  141. Daisy, tells us all about the war crimes committed in Srebrenizca and Sarajevo, some background on the historic self pity and loathing for all things Muslim, since the 14th century, if you don’t mind, we can cope with the attrocities of both sides here, as long as you are not craving for sympathy.
    Its not the hottest potato by a long shot.

    We don’t deny the complicity of Blair and Clinton in the bombing from great hight, but the issue is not as clear cut as you make it out.
    For you to suggest that Christian death are unmemorable or not worth of reparations is worth debating, but it is disingenous to say the least, too many people died on all sides, because Tito never thought of what followed his carefull balanced Parliament, he could have foreseen what ethnic tension existed and what would happen after his death.

    Serbian ego politics, the poetic blood trust invested in Karadjic and the utter violence that was released in these conflicts will make it a sore wound for decades to come.

  142. “I have no desire to serve a regime that hangs young gays from cranes in public”
    .
    That’s an admirable sentiment, but is there not some inconsistency with your readiness to appear on the BBC, thereby serving a regime that just participated in dropping 80,000 tons of bombs on Libyan citizens, thereby killing an estimated 50,000, of whom at least a few must have been gays.

  143. Craig there were Muslims in the camps. It is just the reason they were placed their wasn’t due to religion but ethnicity.
    But I am not sure whether the reason people were interned would make much of a difference to the people interned?
    Just because gypsies in Dale farm are Catholics, it doesn’t mean the ones to the East are.
    Large numbers of Gypsies and Slavs are Muslims.
    And even though Muslims are a minority in Poland they were disproportionately higher numbers fell victim to both Nazi and Communist rule that followed it, because of a greater percentage of them were in the Polish army.

  144. Hello Ingo

    Seems you have swallowed the MSM and NATO propaganda against the Serbs hook line and sinker.
    First I would like you to consider a little closer the Bosnian war situation.
    Have you ever taken the trouble to research the best friend of Bill Hillary, Tony and Madeleine in Bosnia?
    Alia Izetbegovic.
    Radical islamic fundamentalist whose aim was a Bosnian islamic state similar to that of the old Turkish caliphate.
    Masses on the internet
    Here is just one site.
    http://emperors-clothes.com/bosnia/izet.htm
    You see from this the now admitted fact that NATO and the Islamics imported hard core islamic fighters from Afghanistan and other islamic territories to fight against the Serbs.
    Unlike the draconian punishments handed to the Serbs at the Hague this is the report of a Bosnian given a mere three years for beheading Serb prisoners.
    Rather graphic but this is what the Serbs were fighting and the powers that be were lying about to you
    http://sheikyermami.com/2008/09/16/the-hague-muslim-commander-gets-only-3-years-for-beheading-serb-prisoners/
    As for the siege of Sarajevo this is the testimony of a UN Canadian Gen just recently at the Hague.
    http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/highly-specialised-snipers
    The muslims also fired on their own and blamed the Serbs.
    As for sebrenica.
    I suggest you look behind the NATO Jamie Shea, Blairite propaganda and use some logic.
    Sebrenica was a smallish country town. What were 8000 armed muslims doing there?
    They were doing the obvious. It was a military base.
    They had used this base to commit mass murder and rape around the countryside beyond to ethnically cleanse the Serbia inhabitants. Plenty more evidence of mass beheadings if you want to check and can stomach it.
    Many of the interred bodies were dead Serbs. You just don’t get told about them.
    Yes Mladic attacked – it was a war. It was a military base that had been killing and brutalizing the Serbian population.
    Were the Serbs not entitled to fight back?
    There were no way near the casualties claimed. It has been a propaganda millstone to beat the Serbs with for 10 years or more.
    I was being sarcastic about the value of christian life.
    It makes me realise how easily it is for you to misunderstand certain things.
    Serbia was the blueprint for Libya.
    An alliance between radical islam and NATO. The creation of an opposition using fundamentalists agents. The importation of radical islamic fighters as mercenaries. The brutally of these mercenaries against the existing population etc. The endless lies about so called crimes against humanity that never happened.
    There was no ethnic cleansing by the Serbs. proved by the foreign pathologists post war.
    Only the ethnic cleansing of the Serbs.
    Something around 300,000 with 20,000 murdered from the Krajina, 250,000 from Kosovo and an untold number from Bosnia.
    Oh and by the way check out ‘Racak’.
    The now infamous false flag – a collusion of the CIA and the KLA – that enabled Clinton and Blair to attack the Serbs within minutes.

  145. I appreciate Craig’s dilemma propagating essential information; important because ‘Cells that fire together, wire together’ and that is insight (hebbian) for most of us here.
    .
    From the bottom of the ‘rabbit hole’ I thought of BIrCOM as in Britain Iran Communications and Research Centre, just to keep journalists guessing; orchestrating debate is key here – but can it be conceived on a shoestring?

  146. CanSpaccy:
    That’s an admirable sentiment, but is there not some inconsistency with your readiness to appear on the BBC, thereby serving a regime that just participated in dropping 80,000 tons of bombs on Libyan citizens, thereby killing an estimated 50,000, of whom at least a few must have been gays.

    .
    You are a complete knob! :D

  147. Craig there were Muslims in the camps. It is just the reason they were placed their wasn’t due to religion but ethnicity.
    But I am not sure whether the reason people were interned would make much of a difference to the people interned?
    Just because gypsies in Dale farm are Catholics, it doesn’t mean the ones to the East are.
    Large numbers of Gypsies and Slavs are Muslims.
    And even though Muslims are a minority in Poland they were disproportionately higher numbers fell victim to both Nazi and Communist rule that followed it, because of a greater percentage of them were in the Polish army.

    .
    No doubt Arsalan is correct about the fact that Nazis persecuted some Muslims. Certainly Hitler had it in for Muslims and Arabs also. However, Hitler had a much bigger bug up his ass about Jews and about Gypsies and the handicapped. Hitler did all he could to wipe out all. Can we just please not give the time of day to the idiots who come here and deny such well-known stuff?

  148. “You really need to be far down the rabbit hole to think that Press TV, an Iranian state-sponsored media outlet is in no way a propaganda station. And yes, I can show you plenty of evidence that Press TV supports Holocaust denial.”
    .
    .
    however presstv also hosts many “hard core” / “hawkish” pro zionists – pro israeli commentators in their discussions etc. so this is not just one way others are given a chance to air their opinions.
    .
    .
    ive not really noted explicit holocaust denial maybe you should provide some of this evidence, i have to say ofcom has not brought any issue of holocaust denial in its complaints against presstv.
    .
    .
    and so what if presstv has an agenda .. name one station that doesnt .. i think as consenting adults we understand the name of the game and understand the rules. they have an agenda and we have an agenda ..
    .
    .
    one has to use the tools available as effectively and as often as possible – especially when one does not have the means to create a broadcasting network – be it fox news or presstv.
    .
    just look at the way our governments in the west have used twitter and facebook to drive the so called arab spring .. under the guise once again of freedom and democracy .. whilst effecting regime change in our image .. “same as it ever was” .

  149. If you have written something above that talked about Zionism, the Holocaust, the Jewish lobby, or Jewish relatives of prominent people, just ask yourselves what you are up to. Why are you so worried about the Jews? What is going on in your lives? The topic was Craig’s article about Iran and Werrity’s involvement in something that has not been spelled out yet. It might be something that involves a Zionist lobby. That is a great story, but it has been turned down by a lot of respectable newspapers. If you think the newspapers are all part of a Jewish conspiracy too, then you really must be mad. Newspapers want to sell newspapers and win awards. That’s the capitalist conspiracy, and believe me it doesn’t just involve Jews. Think on. Don’t wallow in hatred. Enjoy your life, and don’t waste it retailing imaginative tosh. Cheers!

  150. Seeing as Poland 1st person experience counts.
    ,
    In the few parks where “Gays” frequent Tehran, it is widely known about such haunts. These do not have any gallows installed nearby to hang the aforementioned mincers, mincing about in these park. I have seen this in 1st person, and further I have been propositioned too in 1st person also, although I declined the offer of the young handsome chap (there was no music, and it was not in candle light).
    ,
    Further seeing the most beautiful, auburn haired, slender six feet two high, young chap, with a stunning hind quarters, whom I could fancy too (perhaps it is true, there is a bit of mincer in all of us), going about his work in a shop in the street opposite to the British Embassy in Tehran, whom incidentally did not appear to be hanged or dead.
    ,
    In addition, knowing that Iranian law does not have a male on male rape as a crime, and it deals with such cases as “homosexual crimes” (similar to English law; every sexual misconduct is covered by “committing buggery” which flies in the face of the Gay protection brigade, but hey who is counting?), which in turn is ammunition for the likes of Memry et al, to take advantage and portray the rapist as “poor little gay chappy” hanged for being “Gay” . Actually Iran does have a state grant for anyone wishing to undergo a gender change operation, offering this procedure for free.
    ,
    Therefore I find the “sanctimonious” abstention from involvement with Press TV a business decision, that is designed to keep a certain person’s name out of the boycotted set of contributors to the “media” in UK. Good luck to him, after all it is fashionable to take a leak on all things Iranian these days.

  151. I could make a far better case for offering this news to be to our irish neighbours, but this is not a race for being the first to publish, nor is it a competition.

    I’m sure that press TV will try its best to publish excerts when it happens. The worst thing would be for someone to offer payment and then file it under never published.

    Irelands new president its public opinion and support for the freedom waves flotilla, all make for a better publishing climate. As for the BICOM dissed MSM victims, too scared to open this can of worms for fear of being called NAZI’s and anti semitic, they have not realised that their stoic barracking of this story is self defeatist and purile.

  152. Snippets from the ‘rabbit hole’
    .
    Talking about PressTV, recent audience stats show growth to be exponential which makes me realise the window of opportunity to strike Iran is closing. I believe November 30th is a crucial decision milestone and I wonder when Obama is due in the UK to accept Royal Prerogative.

  153. Talk on the sidelines of the APEC meeting in Honolulu reinforces the American dream of cutting China down to size. Pressure has built up on China to contribute money to rescue the developed countries of the EU and the rest of the world, yet, left in the dark on the returns for their investment.
    .
    China and Russia are agreed that modernisation of failing economies is crucial in 2012. I am wondering if the same bullying China has received this year end will be directed at Russia, an economy set to grow quickly next year bolstered by energy revenue and lucrative nuclear power agreements with Iran, a country prepared to preference its oil and gas supplies.

  154. elisabeth angel

    12 Nov, 2011 - 7:11 pm

    Craig, I did read that bit, and it is an example of the amazingly lax standards applied to this alleged mass murder of six million people that you think what you observed and heard 65 years after the end of World War II is sufficient for you to “know the Holocaust happened from [your] own observation.”

    I do acknowledge that you have more “first hand experience” of being in Poland than I, as I have never been there; and that you heard accounts from people and saw what you regard as evidence. But that that experience was “of the actual evidence,” no.

  155. Elisabeth Angel

    12 Nov, 2011 - 7:12 pm

    Angry Soba,

    I did “spit it out.” Craig censored it.

  156. Elisabeth Angel alleged mass murder of six million people


    Nothing alleged about it,it happened.

  157. technicolour

    12 Nov, 2011 - 7:21 pm

    More than 6 million – up to 12 million, and I researched it (from primary accounts and documents) until I was sick. Not as sick as people who try and pretend it never happened, however.

  158. you catch me on a point of genuine ignorance. I genuinely don’t know if the Nazis sent Muslims to concentration camps.

    Obviously there were some Muslims in the concentration camps; I doubt that there many, probably mainly political prisoners, as Muslim peoples were not among those targetted by the Nazis. I’ve never heard of any Muslim individuals.

    On the other hand there was a whole division of Muslim Turkmens in the Wehrmacht. The 162nd Infantry, if I remember rightly. Their paybooks were printed partly in Arabic script (no doubt an anti-soviet move).

    From the Nazi point of view, Islam was to be sought as an ally against Britain and the Soviets.

  159. elisabeth angel

    12 Nov, 2011 - 7:42 pm

    Angry Soba,

    I tried again to post my original post, but I guess Craig really doesn’t want it up.

  160. For the record I have just deleted a whole raft of pending holocaust denial related comments from a number of people. We do seem to have an incredibly clever automated moderation system that had put them all into pending.

    It is not something I am going to allow on this site. There is no shortage of sites on the subject, and you are free to go there.

  161. Elisabeth Angel,
    You are in good company my response to you has gone awry also.
    No truth needs laws and jail sentences to keep it true!

  162. I’m impressed by your automatic moderator. Does it flag “nakba denial”, too?

  163. Elisabeth Angel

    You may want to ignore the countless historians who have looked at the documentation and sources in respect of the Holocaust (I could give you countless bibliographies if you wish) – and possibly rely on now discredited (by academics) sources such as David Irving. But in the meantime could you please provide us with your alternative theories as to where the significant Jewish populations pre 1939 of many European cities actually disappeared to – with appropraite supporting evidence of course. My guess is that you evidence for the latter will be somewhat less impressive than that provided by academics for the former.

    In the meantime I must now and go and find first hand evidence for the Norman Conquest of 1066 and other past historical events given the new standard of proof that you appear to have set us all.

    Of course if anyone wants to look at the evidence surrounding the holocaust then they should be ecouraged to do so as it sheds light on what happens when extreme nationalists and fascists are not challenged. Perhaps as good as place as any to start are the transcripts of the David Irving v Lipstadt trial which can be found here http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/transcripts where both sides put their cases in a trial instigated by Irving – and he lost.

  164. Elisabeth Angel: “For my whole life I believed the conventional view of the Holocaust without question until a few years ago”

    I wonder what happened to you a few years ago.

    Anyway, denying the holocaust not only makes you sound “non compos mentis”, but in many European countries, you could end up in jail. So here’s a better idea: find out about those heroic people who tried to save people from the holocaust, like the Ten Boom family of Holland.

  165. technicolour

    12 Nov, 2011 - 8:52 pm

    yep, my previous comment about primary evidence seems to have disappeared, but Corrie Ten Boom is a sobering place to start, Abe.

  166. technicolour

    12 Nov, 2011 - 8:56 pm

    But why here and now? What is the point of this, except to distract attention from pressing concerns eg
    a) how are we going to unite to keep the fledgling wings of progress (care, society, decent representation) flapping
    b) (related) how are we going to stop these warmongers

  167. technicolour

    12 Nov, 2011 - 9:25 pm

    But honestly, the people who would like to silence the truths Craig has encountered by pretending that the ‘whole thing’ never happened or that ‘if it did happen, far fewer people were starved/gassed/tortured/imprisoned without trial/worked to death/disappeared than you would like (?) to think’ are kidding themselves.

  168. Re. the holocaust, not even Eichmann denied it had happened. Don’t know where that puts today’s deniers…probably in the special needs class. Back to the topic:
    .
    Here’s Liam Fox at the 2011 Herzliya conference:
    http://thepassionateattachment.com/2011/10/17/liam-foxs-iran-baiting-speech-at-2011-herzliya-conference/
    Next year’s theme: “Towards a Different Middle East: Implications for the International Community & Israel”. Wonder who will be there who we know?

  169. Liam Fox’s adviser Adam Werritty facing questions over ‘missing’ £60,000.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/8885995/Liam-Foxs-adviser-Adam-Werritty-facing-questions-over-missing-60000..html

  170. As a journalist myself, I had suspected a link between Werrity, Israel and Iran. Sometimes you get a hunch, if you’re a good journalist. You dig and it stands up, or it doesn’t. I don’t know for sure that there is a link between those evil people who’d like to start World War 3, and a gullible hard right former Defence Minister.

    My hunch tells me that the half-arsed “Iran wants nukes” PR botch-up had to be fast-tracked because of the exposure of Werrity/Fox/Israel. Fox wasn’t there to bang the drum when the Iran story came out. Either that or the people behind Werrity took fright and scuttled back into the darkness.

    They may well have been planning something to get Britain entirely on side. Even a hint of media curiosity may have caused them to scrap those plans.

    It’s all speculation. But my hunch tells me there’s something to it.

  171. Curiously, Atlantic Bridge Inc, the US arm of Atlantic Bridge – Fox’s venture into civil engineering which closed some weeks ago – has now closed its website, too. Last I heard, the IRS were looking at it.
    But I think Werritty’s a sideshow, and that Fox himself was got at by US Israel-firsters. My hunch, but then I’m a lousy (ex-) journalist.

  172. The guardian would think again before publishing blair rants judging from all the deleted comments he caused.

  173. I may have posted this before, but meet Sir Ronald Cohen, chairman of private equity firm Apax (sounds like?) which owns 49.9% of Trader Media, having been sold this holding by Guardian Media Group (now holding 51.1%) during a cash-raising exercise. GMG received a £50M half share of a Trader “special” (loan funded) dividend in August. And I think we can date the Guardian’s sensitivity on antisemitic tropes from then.

    Here is the man at the 2011 Herzliya Conference:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hquKC8XALHw

  174. Try RT.Com or PressTV.ir The mainstream is all in the control of the zionists so they’ll not publish it. Many of the editors would probably love to but know they’d not have a job for long after. Now if the Werrity story had been big enough to breach the taboo of mentioning the zionist control of all western governments and media, then I think the dam would have burst all over. It’ll happen sooner or later and the backlash with not be pretty.

  175. elisabeth angel

    12 Nov, 2011 - 11:59 pm

    Abe Rene, You wrote:

    “in many European countries, you could end up in jail.”

    Exactly. Why would that be, I wonder, if the Holocaust is a historical truth that can stand on its merits? And if the people’s belief in it is not extremely important to certain governments?

    Wouldn’t debunking the arguments against it be a more reasonable procedure? Assuming, of course, that they could be debunked.

    I suppose you know that jailing people for expressing their beliefs is against article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

    Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

  176. Ok Elisabeth, you’ve freely expressed your opinion. Now bugger off before I bite you.

  177. A vote for Press TV

    Press TV in English is an excellent daily source of useful stories that can be found nowhere else. Stories that are enjoyably Anti- the USUK Empire fascists. Who is not Anti- them, these days?

    Does Iran have an agenda to counter the relentless pathetically transparent propaganda against them? One certainly hopes so!

    Is Press TV the mouthpiece of Iran? Is the BBC the mouthpiece of the USUK Empire fascists? Is Murdoch’s Fascist News fascist? Are the US UK MSM the paid lackeys of USUK fascism? Well, Duh! On all counts.

    Is it unfortunate that Iran hang gays from cranes? Is it even more unfortunate that the USUK Empire slaughtered 1.7m Iraqis – directly and indirectly, since 2001? Plus 400k GW1, plus 1m, or 1.5m, by sanctions, including 500,000 children under five? – “We think it was worth it.” – Madeline Albright.

    From outside the USUK Empire fascist mindset, those who stood by while the US and UK used the methods of the Nazis to send detainees to be tortured to death – and Craig has reported that none of those sent to Uzbekistan have ever been seen again, so they definitely were either tortured to death, or executed afterwards – deserve everything they get.

    Roll on Nuremberg MK II – Mk I for comparison. Tony Bliar first. – Nuremberg Executions of N_zi Leaders for ‘Crimes Against Humanity’ and ‘Crimes Against the Laws of War.’ – Original –

    - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=95d_1206462963

    It took thirty years before Pinochet spent a year under house arrest in Britain. Is it likely that the USUK war criminals face The Hague within 20 years? 50:50? Within 30 years? 90%?

  178. Elisabeth Angel: The wiki article “Laws against Holocaust denial” indicates that the prevention of violent attacks against people is the likely motive for those countries in which it is illegal.

    As for debunking vs locking people up, If I were a politician and were convinced that the activity of holocaust deniers led to attacks on people or their communal places, I might well consider banning it. As things stand, I would personally not waste too much time on them. But I might suggest that they spend their time more wisely.

    Freedom of expression has never been absolute; incitement to murder, libel and disclosing classified information are all illegal in the UK. The famous American jurist Oliver Wendell Holmes said that shouting “Fire!” in a corwded theatre is not a legitimate exercise of the freedom.

    I would advise you for your own good to abandon this nonsense now, and instead contemplate the virtue of people like Corrie Ten Boom, Saint Maximilian Kolbe, or Viktor Frankl. All three experienced Nazi death camps as inmates.

  179. Elisabeth Angel

    13 Nov, 2011 - 1:01 am

    Technicolor:
    “But why here and now? What is the point of this, except to distract attention from pressing concerns eg
    a) how are we going to unite to keep the fledgling wings of progress (care, society, decent representation) flapping
    b) (related) how are we going to stop these warmongers”

    Is that to me? My first post, which was not and will not be posted, talked about that. I am convinced that bringing the historical truth to light is the key to stopping the warmongers.

    It’s not rocket science: according to Craig’s own statement, his article deals with a Zionist conspiracy to start a war with Iran. Well, a great deal of Zionist power — particularly any shred of moral authority they have left, is owing to the “H” (– trying not to trigger the bots :-) ) narrative.

    Now, if that narrative is true — well it is still misused, as Norman Finckelstein (an”H” believer, BTW) makes clear — but if were found to be a massive criminal fraud that has sucked up a trillion or so dollars and enabled the theft of a country from its inhabitants with the accompanying genocide of many of them — and the masses found out how they had been scammed — then things could change very fast.

    But it is not just the big “H”(as I type this I am rapidly losing faith that this post will be published) — the whole commonly accepted WWII narrative is basically a lie, in that there was a Zionist conspiracy to start a war with and destroy Germany. It’s a continuum, you see. How about WWI? Do you really think it simply “broke out” because someone happened to shoot the Archduke of Austria? or was it too a “conspiracy”? Of course it was.

    The more people understand that all war is just planned mass murder for the profit of those who pull the strings, the fewer people will be willing to fight those wars.

    Technicolor wrote:
    “But honestly, the people who would like to silence the truths Craig has encountered by pretending that the ‘whole thing’ never happened or that ‘if it did happen, far fewer people were starved/gassed/tortured/imprisoned without trial/worked to death/disappeared than you would like (?) to think’ are kidding themselves.

    And you know this how?

  180. I agree with Craig that Holocaust denial, and all genocide denial, is horrible. But if you made a museum of genocide, the Nazi holocaust would occupy a very small booth compared to everything else.
    A couple of things are puzzling me though about Craig.
    Q.1/ If D.Cameron went to S.Africa at 24 in 1990, how come C.Murray didn’t know the purpose of the mission either through personal contacts or in his official role until 1993. I smell something fishy about that even if it was something as innocent as fish-net tights.
    Q.2/ Those up to 200,000 UK special troops in Libya plus mercenaries the Daily Telegraph reported about. Were they doing Tory-party special-links-with-Africa oil-installation protection duties, to stop AlQaida from interfering with matters that didn’t concern’em? Like 1990 Cameron, or were they part of the anti-Gaddafi campaign?
    Our man has shown that he has Tory sources which as a professional journalist he can’t reveal. At some stage, if the Tories continue down the proxy genocide path of Libya, he is going to have to put the Tories into the same bin as Blair and Brown. Is that going to be difficult for him? I told my Tory friends to f. off irreversibly in 1990. Good riddance to them.

  181. Pony Chase John

    13 Nov, 2011 - 5:04 am

    Stephen
    .
    please provide us with your alternative theories as to where the significant Jewish populations pre 1939 of many European cities actually disappeared to
    .
    Do you actually know what you’re talking about here, Stephen? Do you have the figures to hand? The difference between pre- and post- Jewish populations is one of the points most often used in questioningthe scale of the holocaust – I’ve never seen it used in support.

  182. Pony Chase John

    13 Nov, 2011 - 5:16 am

    There’s an ongoing massacre of Gaddafi-supporting patriots in Libya which is likely to reach the scale at which people start crying ‘genocide’, and which may have its genocidal aspect, given the tribal and racial divisions.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29695.htm

  183. Pony Chase John

    13 Nov, 2011 - 5:20 am

    I stumbled across this preposterous blog. I can’t decide whether it’s a neo-nazi black op to undermine the struggle against anti-semitism, or just some rather dim people who don’t see the logical conclusion of what they’re doing.

    http://cifwatch.com/

  184. Pony Chase John

    Cifwatch is just another silly pro Israeli group that runs around the internet claiming antisemitism. Bit of a joke really. I just had a look at their website and it says that the Guardian got the so called Honestreporting 2010 award for dishonest reporting. Honest reporting is yet another pro Israeli pressure group,they are based in Israel. They featured in the Dispatches report from a few years ago about the Israeli lobby in the UK and how 80% of Tory MP’s are basically in their camp including Cameron. You can watch it here.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23997.htm

  185. I should say that the Labour party are pretty much pro Israel as well,it is not only the Tories.

  186. How come frustration at the zionist bias in fleet street has led to an argument about the holocaust?
    Let’s just call it WW II. There were many more victims than just jews.
    Let’s get back to getting Craigs piece published.
    Have you tried the Herald in Scotland ? Or is that also a zionist rag ?

  187. Henry M'Turk

    13 Nov, 2011 - 8:27 am

    erm…on the basis that one jew is worth 1027 palestinians, if 6 million jews got hitlered, that equates to almost the entire human race, if counted as palestinians. is that why they harp on about WWII so much?

  188. Henry M'Turk

    13 Nov, 2011 - 8:33 am

    Really the Middle East is insoluble without radical cultural change and allowing time for a generation or so to pass.
    .
    The root cause is this:
    .
    All male Jews and Moslems are circumcised, or, in plain English, they have mutilated genitalia. They all feel insecure in their manhood. They all feel violated. They must compensate for this with a heightened tendency to be aggressive.
    .
    Stop the barbarism of circumcision and within 30 years they’ll be at peace.
    .
    Sorted.
    .
    P.S. This probably explains the Yanks too.

  189. Something else of great horror to think about on Remembrance Sunday when the emphasis is on our losses in war. This was terrible.
    .
    In this book, Mohammad Gholi Majd argues that Persia was the greatest victim of World War One and also the victim of possibly the worst genocide of the twentieth century. The author based his research on the great famine in Iran on documents and reports of the US State Department archives as well as from news and information taken from newspapers printed in those years, especially the Ra’d and Iran newspapers in Persia. Majd quotes the American Charge d’Affaires in Tehran at the time, William Smith Murray, has having claimed that a third of Persia’s population died from a combination of famine and disease. He also used as sources the memoirs of the British officers and commanders who were present in Persia (Iran) during the World War I. The book reflects on the direct role that the interventionist British and Russian forces played in the famine and subsequent mortality in Iran during the World War I.

    In large, Majd blames the British who, after the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917, were the controlling power in Persia. Local transportation was taken over by the British for the transport of war materials, isolating farmers from their customers inside Persia. At the same time, Majd claims that significant amounts of food were confiscated by the British to supply British troops both within Persia and in the region.

    Majd’s conclusion is that, unknown to most, one of THE major genocides of the twentieth century occured in Persia during and immediately after WW1. In general, one can believe the approximate accuracy of his sources – there was a major famine and millions died – whether it was one third or one half of Persia’s population is purely an academic argument – deaths were literally in the millions and the impact on Persia was enormous. However, “genocide” assumes the deliberate and wilfull killing of large numbers of non-combatants. That the British would deliberately undertake this is not believable and in this, Majd’s argument is not credible, it’s more of an emotional response. Which is understandable – picture in your mind if a third to a half of the US population had died off in WW1 from famine which was made worse by a foreign occupation under the same basis as happened in Persia. What would your reaction be?
    .
    The whole review is here.
    http://www.amazon.com/Great-Famine-Genocide-Persia-1917-1919/dp/0761826335

  190. It is fascinating, is it not, that this thread, which originally referred to what is, in essence, whistle-blowing and potentially very important revelations concerning statecraft and governance in today’s Britain, appears to have been swamped – or at least, a prodigious attempt has been made at swamping – by what one can only describe as a load of auto-piloted anti-Semitic garbage, triggered mainly by ‘new names’ (and some usual suspects), to which regular commentators then have responded. I completely share Technicolour’s, and also I think Craig’s, frustration at all this. I would suggest deletion of all of the irrelevant posts, to clean-up the thread and keep it focussed. Are the spambots insufficient? It seems that someone, somewhere has gone into overdrive. You must be onto something, Craig. Get that article out ASAP, man, anyway you can!

  191. This image has been posted by someone on medialens as the new Italian flag. Another says it looks very much like the Greek flag to him.
    .
    http://insideireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/GoldmanSachsStory.jpg

  192. Some hope here that the mindset in the US is changing and that the young people are seeing through the propaganda and lies.
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jyp-3ulZmQI

  193. Henry M'Turk

    13 Nov, 2011 - 9:27 am

    Suhayl

    You find it fascinating but you want it deleted? What is this, Catholic guilt?

    PS Not sure which you mean – CM already said his thing caught the holocaust stuff he didn’t want. My first was frivolous, granted, but my second is a damn serious thesis!

  194. No irony then. Marr has one of the warmongers from the last decade, Condoleeza Rice and one from this decade, General David Richards, as guests on his programme this morning.
    .
    Richards speaking three days ago.
    ‘“What you did in Libya and the way you have responded over the last few months have been in the best traditions of the Service; not only have you done great work operationally but you have broken new barriers professionally, particularly with the Apache.
    .
    “The name of HMS Ocean is held in high regard back in the UK and you should be proud, and deservedly so, of what you have achieved.”
    .
    Apache attack helicopters from 656 Squadron Army Air Corps were deployed in Libya via HMS Ocean.
    .
    Their crew carried out missions, hitting military vehicles, installations and communications equipment.’
    .
    http://bfbs.com/news/worldwide/head-armed-forces-praises-hms-ocean-53246.html

  195. Come on Craig: out with it before your tattie goes cold…

  196. Ah, the hypocritical irony of the muddled-head Liberal !

    Craig is complaining about nobody being willing to publish his “stunning “ article because of the possible fear of being accused of anti-Semitism by Zionist supporters, and yet as the same time does not want PressTV to publish his article because of the fear of being accused of supporting homophobia ! !

    As already pointed out, the granting of respectability & legitimacy to pro-Government media organisations, that acted and still act as blood-soaked pro-war propagandists, doesn’t seem to be of equal concern to Craig; if it’s the persecution of homosexuals that are only of such paramount concern, not mere genocides, then perhaps we can expect him now to boycott all US media;

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=245358

  197. The good things about some posts here is that I get to know more about the people and issues in news after an event, but the people causing the troubles seem to be ahead since they all have access to ministers diaries.

  198. Fully agree with Ken, there is no need to have this thread contaminated with Holocaust deniers. I find it incredible that those who pursue the truth, as they profoundly claim at every step of their argument, then can deny that guilt, racial hatred and callous organisation carrying it out.

    I can’;t deny it, because as a young german barely 9 years old, we were ‘visiting’ a Concentration camp near neuengamme, samml but abasolutely disgusting, the stench of burning bones permiating the walls of a dank stable type building, it was our day out in the countryside, an allied instruction to all Germans to have their de nazification applied, good and proper.

    It is this single event which has moulded itself into my brain, something that is undeniable. Despite being born after the war, despite this pathetic attempt to make us feel guilty for our fathers horrible mistakes, I feel that a new page has been turned, that we should strive not to let it happen again, but it did, in Cambodia, Laos, in ex Yugoslavia, on both sides and in Libya, now.

    Thanks for the hearteneing video of a more moral moderate young jewish community, Mary, a community which rejects being indoctrinated with racialist messages, who had enough of the incessant superiority complex that guides zionists and their actions.

    lets concentrate on why they cannot/ dare not inform their thinkling public of the Fox Werrity scandal? My feeling here is that it was a true conspiracy, here only known by those high up in the CFI, who knows maybe some LFI, but in Israel, its seemingly was not known by the Likud cabinet, merely a paln amongst many.

    What makes this scenario so viable is Netanyahu’s mental state, his obsession with WW” and churchil, he, Barak and Liebermann seem to think they can bowl over their own country and play up to the military armourers of the world, whilst paving the way for our gloabl oil giants, etc.

    Just a thought

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