Defend Stephen Sizer

by craig on January 12, 2013 9:41 am in Uncategorized

Stephen Sizer has been active for many years in areas of humanitarian concern for the Palestinian population. I was with him on my recent trip to Baghdad, and I am convinced he is a good man.

Stephen is a Church of England vicar. He is under huge pressure at the moment as he is under a formal complaint from the Board of Deputies of British Jews to the Church of England on a charge of anti-semitism. This is very serious indeed and could lead to the loss of both his job and his home.

The essence of the long complaint is that he has posted links on his website to other websites which contain anti-semitic material. It is not alleged that he has linked to material which is itself anti-semitic; but that elsewhere on websites linked to there is such material.

That may or may not be true. But in the real world, the idea that in posting a link to an article you are endorsing every other article (which in practice you cannot have seen) on a website is nonsensical and would make much current blogging practice impossible.

That Stepehn is not an anti-semite and has not knowingly endorsed anti-semitism, I have no doubt. But what worries me is the growing bravura with which all critics of Israel or supporters of the Palestinians are charged with the – rightfully – damning slur of anti-semitism.

Just as the government of Israel has lurched to the far right, so “official” Jewish institutions in the UK have abandoned their once notable liberalism. The Board of Deputies used to deserve high respect and be a pillar of reason. It is astonishing to me that it has launched this absolutely unfounded attack on an Anglican priest. The Jewish Chronicle has lurched so far to the right as to be off the scale. There seems to be such a disconnect now between these institutions and the views of the Jewish people I know that I hope this state of affairs cannot last.

A list of those who have written in support of Stephen Sizer can be found here.

The formal process in which Stephen is now enmeshed is not only extremely unpleasant, it is also extremely expensive. He has to employ lawyers for his formal defence. A cardinal rule of this blog is never to ask for money, but I ask you now to donate for the defence fund.

Electronic transfers can be made to account name J Moodey, Co-op Bank sort code 08-93-00, account number 80407856. Cheques should be made out to J Moodey and sent to Mr S Leah, c/o York PSC, PO Box 423, York YO24 4WP.

It is important that we do not allow the victimisation of those who try to defend the Palestinians to proceed apace. Please do donate anything you can; if you feel able to add a comment saying that you have done so, that might encourage others.

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267 Comments

  1. Craig..if by posting contraversial links on a blog were a crime, you would have been shot years ago ! My donation is on it’s way !

  2. Yes , I think this is a worthy cause and I shall be making a donation. It is this kind of slur that gets good men a bad name. I know a few sites and one or two clergy of the C of E and will make them aware of this persecution.

    One thing that few people understand is the meaning of anti-semitic. It does not mean anti-Jewish. Palestinians are Semites too. Legally, if the term ‘anti-semitic’ features in the charge he should have a good case.

  3. You refer to the “rightfully damning slur of anti-semitism”. Leaving aside the technical consideration that anti-semitism is strictly a racial attitude, while being Jewish can be a religious or cultural identity rather than a genetic one, it’s unclear just why it should be so damning. How often do we tar an entire people with the faults of their leaders! One need look no further than the Nazis, whose vile beliefs led most British and American people to hate all Germans and acquiesce heartily in carpet-bombing of civilians, many of whom no doubt were quite decent people.

    Moreover, immediately after your caution about anti-semitism you give us a laundry lsit of unpleasant behaviour and attitudes on the part of Jewish leaders in the UK. None of us here probably has to be told about the crimes of the leadership of Israel.

    So, while I don’t want to be anti-semitic, why isn’t there a word that means “resolutely opposed to the *leadership* of Israel and Jews everywhere”? After all, if someone is said to be anti-British, anti-American, anti-Russian, anti-Chinese, or whatever, isn’t it the leaders of those nations who are assumed to be disliked, rather than the broad masses – of whose personalities and opinions most of us know nothing at all?

    Of course, it would be nice if someone could invent a form of government in which the leaders somehow represented the views and wishes of the people. Then we could assume a certain consistency, and we could hold the people responsible for the actions of the leaders. But no – that’s a pipe dream, it could never happen.

  4. So the sexist homophobes are calling him racist.

  5. I guess you know, Craig, that it’s only a matter of time before the Zionists will be coming for you too?

    You’re a very naughty boy. You talked about Matthew Gould, British ambassador to Israel, being Jewish.

    Never mind that Gould grins as he openly helps out a foreign power’s propaganda effort in Britain. (Hasbara, Leeds, if anyone wants to check.) Never mind that we couldn’t imagine an ambassador to Moscow or Tehran doing the same. The KGB or the mullahs would have nowhere enough clout in the FCO, elsewhere in Whitehall, or SIS, to put them in such a strong position.

    For the Zionists, there’s a race (sorry, ‘ethno-religious’) war on, and you’re on the other side.

    By the way, this stuff about the Board of Deputies being once upon a time ‘liberal’, and about ‘Israel’ being something other than ‘far right’. You’re joking, right? The front that’s chosen is whatever works for the perceived ethnic interest. Although even that’s a vague way of putting it. As I keep on saying, Zionism is not just an ideology – it’s an organisation.

    If you think Israel was once good and has turned bad, you suffer from historical amnesia. Need I say ‘Deir Yassin’? The ‘good turned bad’ idea is propaganda. It’s putting up defences on the Green Line and arguing over what happens on the more recently conquered side of it. Do you get this? Push, push, push. Obscure the debate. Lie. Nazi! There’s only one language the Zionists will understand, and it isn’t diplomacy or guilt-tripping.

  6. I detest the words anti semite, so now I just refer to them as Zionists, which most of the Israeli leadership are.
    Your friend is one of many this is happening to worldwide…

  7. Hi Mike – if you think only “most” of the Israeli leadership are Zionists, what definition of ‘Zionism’ are you using?

    The definition I use is that a Zionist is someone who supports the existence of a Jewish state. On that definition, all of the Israeli leadership is Zionist. (Never mind just the leadership – it’s against the law in Israel to stand for public office on a platform which questions whether the state should be Jewish-supremacist.) In other words, Zionism is the Jewish brand of ethnic supremacism. The term also stands for the organisation which promotes this. This organisation has faces which include the Israeli state, the Jewish Agency/World Zionist Organisation, Anti-Defamation League, B’nai B’rith, World Jewish Congress, and Chabad-Lubavitch.

  8. Well said, N_. Do continue reading my mind, it saves me the effort typing self-evident but infrequently voiced truths.

    And Tom Welsh.

    As Fred said, too (I think): a bit Pot, Kettle, Black. Church of England vicar, it’s all a bit ‘enemy of my enemy’ and all that. Wouldn’t it be better if any spare cash went to medical supplies, bandages, nappies, viagra, baby food, adult food or whatever that can be got into the West Bank or Gaza unmolested and for the Church of England to tell the Board of Deputies to FRO, then hang all (the) lawyers. What remit can lawyers possibly have between a vicar and his church hierarchy? This Church should defend him automatically, or be the poorer spiritually for his departure and loss and he’d be better out of anyway it as it seems he has his head half screwed on properly and critical faculties intact. Sinister organisations consisting of three words: Church of England, Board of Deputies, ADL, HoC etc., seem the common denominator in many evils, can’t we just deride and ignore them automatically on that easy basis. Lethal combinations of puffed up zealots and conspirators. I suppose there are freedom of speech and internet freedoms at stake too, some of the wackiest websites have good stuff in amongst all the flying saucers and healing crystals rubbish, like stopped clocks right twice a day.

  9. I’m with N_ and cryptonym and the next time I can make ends meet from month to month and have something left I will think of those in Gaza.

    Lets hope that Craigs exposes here of the hypocrisy and blatant use of Britain’s judicial system to score religious propaganda and PR points for a fascist Zionist outfit, not even part of the EU, through our courts, will rattle a still very rich church and its clergy to defend their own kind and put their hands in their pockets.

    Whatever judge might want to wash his/her hands, and does not dismiss this case for piffle or rule’s that it goes unreported, is a mug.

  10. Is this board Of deputies as one unanimously fervent Arab-haters and apologists for genocide or are there moderates who simply wish to kill everyone but their lot and let $deity sort who was really good or bad? I presume their internal deliberations are publicy accessible, if not, why not?

    Beware unifying theories of everything which are impervious to contradictory facts or cool reason. Religious belief the prime example. I’d take religion out of it, Zionism is ethnic supremacism, rather than the religious type, and justifiably detestable.

  11. O/T A petition from Mary Kostakidis on behalf of Julian Assange.

    http://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/wikileaks/assange/sign-the-petition

    Please sign and distribute.

  12. Well said N_ and Tom Bravo – Thankfully I believe the Palestinian people will continue to expose the hypocrisy of the West and the international injustice until it regains all its stolen lands and forces states like the US and Britain who supported its enemies to apologize and pay reparations.

    Stephen Sizer in his book “Christian Zionism – Road Map to Armageddon” claims that Christian Zionism infused with the neoconservative political ideology has ‘tipped the world on its side heavy with military artillery.’

    Here is the relevant religious debate with Stephen and International Bible Expositor David Pawson:

    http://www.cc-vw.org/audio/pawsondebate.mp3

  13. Craig. For international readers, can you provide info on how they can easily and quickly send money. Paypal?

  14. Cryptonym, Nevermind

    Like it or not the CofE is a powerful institution, and this attack on Stephen Sizer looks like another attempt to push it into supporting the Zionist agenda (more than it does already). It is about getting it to stifle dissent. It is not a small matter and I think it important that we do support Stephen Sizer whatever we think of his religion

  15. The video which makes me laugh out loud is this one.

    It is now tagged:

    The following content has been identified by the YouTube community as being potentially offensive or inappropriate. Viewer discretion is advised. !!!!!

    Watch out for Regev’s silly smile to disappear and the cat on the keyboard and the Hamaaaaasss terrrrrist cat.

    Gaza flotilla video mashup: Internet Killed Israeli PR
    http://www.youtube.com/verify_controversy?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DME_NpnH7jDc

  16. Try this for size members of the British Board of Deputies. Shame on you for your bullying of the Rev Sizer. I hope that the Bishop of Guildford has the moral backbone to support him.

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-occupiers-threaten-forced-expulsion-dozens-more-palestinians-join-bab-al

    Those i/c at the Board of Deputies

    http://www.bod.org.uk/live/content.php?Category_ID=20

  17. The dubious accusation of being an anti-semite is now so toxic that any successful defence is unlikely. Even in the event of an acquittal (if that’s the right word) the slur lives on and is renewed by trolls and shills. I wonder if anyone has lost their job for being an anti-gentile.

  18. Another murder of a Palestinian in Gaza by the Israelis.

    Gaza: Palestinian farmer ‘killed by Israeli gunfire’
    A Palestinian farmer has been shot dead in northern Gaza, local medics say.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20986433

    Note the inverted commas to imply doubt.

  19. A quick glance at the evidence the BoD website reveals a link to “iamthewitness”, this site has a clearly advertised section on The Protocols of the Elders of Zion which Sizer must’ve been aware of. Only a pretty bonkers anti-Semitic site would bother with such nonsense (proved to be a fake in the 1920’s) so I’m wondering why on earth Sizer linked to it. Another site, “veteranstoday” seems to be part of the 9/11 “troof” movement which blames Israel for the attacks. I know this idea has some supporters around here but it is totally mad and you can understand why the BoD would be offended.

    Any, make up your own minds.

    http://www.bod.org.uk/content/StephenSizerComplaintAppendix.pdf

    This complaint may well be revenge for Sizer calling the police out to blogger Joseph Weissman in 2009 on grounds of harassment. No action was taken but Weissaman removed the blog voluntarily.

  20. It is interesting that all screenshots in the document you refer to show a complete browser screen, with the exception of the final screen shot of Sizer linking to a specific Windows into Palestine page. This screenshot is heavily truncated to remove context. There is no clear evidence as to why he says “Read more here and also the Daily Telegraph”. The only clue is the url containing “bbc-caught-out-with-its-zionist”.

    So your evidence is a link made by Sizer on some unknown date for an unknown reason to a WiP page dated 5/2012. The page on WiP referring to the Protocols is dated 6/2012. So you are amazed at his pre-emptive linking?

    Why have the Bod removed context on this single entry where Sizer links to a WiP page? My guess is the context contradicts their blatant smear job. But hey, that’s just my guess.

  21. Kempe,

    It is of course possible to link to a relevant article on a website without condoning or subscribing to every single POV therein surely?

    One of the most regular-and misguided- charges against Craig’s blog is that it domain if GroupThink and massed doctrine.

    As im sure you’ll agree that is certainly not the case.

    We are a very broad church.

  22. It does detail meticulously the m.o. for a revolutionary conspiracy of some sort, with fantastic incredulous elements, it is someone’s fiction, whatever its origins or writers and their motivations, it has aspects such as message/media control which hold true for any such movement with malign ends and has modern day echoes. It manages by stilted dated language, monstrous conceit and condescension to send the reader into a near-comatose state and unlikely to ever wade through its content beyond a skim of some opening blurb. I can’t understand the Zionist over-reaction to its nonsense and rather think they protest too much, so unconvincing is it and devoid of any mention of who the chosen ones or originators might be except in the title latterly applied (it is never a good idea to widely distribute details of secret plots before or after their execution). It is a historical document of interest, a warmed over version of something existant in some form another, still recognisable, long before modern (post late 19th C) Zionist organisations and their racist colonial goals never mind world-domination fantasies went public, and as likely then not their work but plagiarised, perhaps. Was popular reading in Russia and might have had applicability to overthrow of the tsarist regime, where the first bolshevik government who seized control of the people’s revolution immediately outlawed anti-semitism and this dull tract – which isn’t a fake in several senses – to quash association with themselves or criticism of the party and power elite’s religious uniformity.

    Since when have this bag of wind Board of Deputies, framed civil or criminal never mind ‘church law’ whatever that might be. Bun fight in an asylum. Let people make up their own minds, quite properly –no to book burning or banning, including such silly tracts.

  23. Kempe,

    Apols for bad spelling etc in that last post.

    Sausagefinger iPhonitis …:-)

  24. A successor to it almost is the Project for a New (Zionist) American Century. Same exceptionalism and supremacism, breathtaking stupidity and braggartism.

  25. Adducing links as proof of wrongdoing is sinister. ‘But you don’t deny that you know Fred, and you do realise we have just arrested him?’

    We don’t know much about people close to us. An old drinking mate failed to appear one day – imprisoned for embezzlement. One of my music tutors vapourised: paedophilia. In neither case had I any clue that there was anything wrong. The situation is even worse on the web – what’s on a site changes, usually quite rapidly. It leads to the academic requirement to quote a ‘date accessed’ time when referencing an internet source, and I’m still grateful to Clark for pointing out services like WebCite, which capture stills from this ever-moving picture.

    How far does this go? You know, if I link to a site, that links to a site, that links to a site that says there is no Santa Claus, have I ruined Christmas for my grandchildren? We could be back to the metaphysics of the previous thread if we’re not careful.

  26. When you criticise a Nazi, she calls you anti-German; when you point out the failings of the socialist mind trap of the Zionists, they call you anti-Jew.

    It’s like the reverse of a straw-man misrepresentation, whereby the innocent is associated with bad agency; here the “anti-Semite” ‘defence’ attempts to shield bad agency with innocent collateral labels.

  27. The WiP blog links right back to http://www.iamthewitness.com/ which is undated and another site Sizer links to. Take a look yourselves and tell me if you think it’s anti-Semitic or not (despite the disclaimer). Sizer has correctly condemned the Protocols as a forgery on his blog so why he would link to such a barmy website I don’t know.

  28. BrusselsLout

    12 Jan, 2013 - 5:37 pm

    Britain is supposed to be a Christian nation, so we Britons have a duty to stand up for our churchmen. Non-Christian cultures always stand up for their own. Why can’t we do the same?

    Where’s that useless Cameron?

  29. Kempe

    The Board of Deputies appendix you cite does indeed link to all sorts of highly objectionable material. What it does not do is link Stephen Sizer to any of that material. It is an appalling bit of attempted character assassination by non-existent association. You are trying to compound by claiming there is a dissonance between Sizer’s sensible dismissal of the Protocols and his links – he has not linked to any material rpomoting the Protocols..

    I have been known to link with approval to specific article in The Telegraph or Spectator. It is ridiculous to claim as a result that I agree with everything on their website or partake in their general poloitical orientation

  30. Kempe @ 5:20pm. thanks for that link!! :-)

    Bookmarked it for further perusal someday. Bit of a slow site, probably the slashdot effect; dog’s breakfast of a website but surely some nuggets of meat in there. I’d say the BoD have scored a bit of an own goal coming out of the shadows with this ADL-like attack dog stuff, but I expect they do much for charity behind the scenes.

  31. Stephen is a great advocate for peace and justice. I am privileged to call him a friend. My donation to fight his cause and get the best legal advice is on its way.

  32. BrusselsLout

    12 Jan, 2013 - 6:25 pm

    Anne — the truth is always in the part the press leaves out.

  33. BrusselsLout

    “Britain is supposed to be a Christian nation, so we Britons have a duty to stand up for our churchmen. ”

    …. therefore ….

    Britain is supposed to be a tea drinking nation, so we Britons have a duty to stand up for our tea cups.

  34. No Craig, if you link to something the onus is on you to make clear your interest in or reservations about that. Not every time obviously.

  35. Yes a bit mad Kempe considering a mix bag of Saudi mujahadeen planned a ‘Kamikaze Pilots’ attack in the 90’s. We knew early from Iranian sources the Shaytân-e Bozorg was in the sights of a terrorist group.

    It was SAVAK counter-intelligence guru and thug Behrooz Sarshar having escaped from Iran with a little help from us Brits who blew the whistle to his CIA handlers.

    So we knew, they knew and Bush was told in April 2001.

    Therefore I charge the administration for failing to protect the American people. Also for the murder of John O’Neil, poor bastard – he also knew.

  36. Is there a register we can search to find out which sites we are not allowed to link to lest we might fall foul of antisemitism laws?
    A spellchecker could be integrated in Operating Systems which highlighlights links and terms unfriendly to.. semites(?) to help us observe the special consideration they require.

  37. BrusselsLout

    12 Jan, 2013 - 6:39 pm

    Sorry Node, you’ve lost me. I come from Earth, not Vulcan.

  38. BrusselsLout

    Uzbekistan is supposed to be a dictatorship so those Usbekistanis have a duty to stand up for their dictator.

  39. I expect they’ll send their own vicar to Coventry, we have two organisations that both must ever justify having gone a-plundering with holy book in one hand and guns blazing.

    United in their guilt. Though British bible wielding colonisers at least tolerated some victims joining them wholly in their delusions, while still otherwise thoroughly racist.

  40. The Gospels say that Jesus said that his contemporary fellow Jews rejected the cornerstone of the building. Jews and Muslims understand from our scriptures what that cornerstone is, the Oneness of God, His omniscience and omnipotence and thus the rejection of all partnership in the knowledge and control over His creation.

    The trouble with traditionalists is that they start with the deviation that Jesus was God and try to build a theological structure over a completely wobbly foundation. The best thing to do with such a strange edifice is not necessarily to knock it down. We once worked on a house under which a spring came up through the clay of the hillside and the surveyor was quite happy for the spring to remain. If you were starting again because the building had fallen down you wouldn’t repeat the mistake of the original location.

    That’s the problem. Allah has left this wonky structure to stand, purely to show the Muslims what happens if you build on an insecure foundation. The result is violent and continuous colonialism against ‘the other’. The abomination of mutually assured destruction. The dependence of the economy on interest, alcohol, narcotics and arms. The ability of citizens to sleep at night while starvation, war, disease ravage the warring nations while diplomacy is put on the back burner by NATO’s politicians.
    The prevalence of adultery and sexually transmitted diseases spreading from the west to the previously morally shy nations.

    It may be that The Reverend Sizer is actually anti-semitic because the Christians traditionally blame the wrongs listed above on the Jews who rejected Jesus’ (pbuh) teachings, forgetting that they themselves followed the rejecters of Jesus’s message of Monotheism rather than follow him.
    The Qur’an states that they will argue about these things until the Day of Judgement and it is futile to intervene.
    ‘Inna ma tunthira illa man taba’a aththikra’
    ‘Indeed nobody can be alerted ( to the teaching of the Oneness of God ) except those who follow the reminder (the Qur’an)’
    ‘Ummun, bukmun sumyun la rajioun’ ‘ Deaf, dumb and blind they will not return ( to the teachings of Monotheism ‘.

    The Semites, i.e. the theological offspring of Abraham, Jews or Muslims, will never cease to be persecuted by the theological offspring of shaytan the devil who inform them to worship other than Allah. Christianity is one of the many thousands of polytheistic deviancies that hate the Semitic religion of Monotheism.

  41. Evidently there are people who spend a great deal of time sifting through material posted by critics of Israel in the hope of finding something that might be actionable. This particular case smacks of desperation on the part of the sifters, but the motivation is, of course, purely to fight racism and nothing at all to do with frightening/silencing/discrediting critics of Israel…

    Just like the more general obsession with racism that pervades virtually every aspect of our institutions is about protecting the poor, downtrodden immigrant from the inherent nastiness of the native inhabitants, and nothing at all to do with silencing criticism of mass-immigration.

  42. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Jan, 2013 - 7:53 pm

    Throwing the baby out with the dirty bathwater is in vogue. The Vicar’s plight is one we’ll all eventually face, in one form or another. We in the US, if we were consistent in our contemporary demand for purity from all, should invalidate the US Constitution, since one of it’s principal authors actually held black slaves. The methodology is clear; make things too hot for those who dissent, by detailing some moral failing, or political gaffe, then shouting such derision from the rooftops.

    Seems to work…….

  43. Richard Armbach

    12 Jan, 2013 - 8:00 pm

  44. sorry. ma tunthiru, not tunthira. You can only warn those who..

  45. I’ll grant that there is material, in historical books which must be taken warts and all, on the iamthe… website that, as the term anti-semitic is degraded and inaccurate, better be called what it is anti-jewish. I’m not in favour of suppressing or condemning perusal or access to this stuff, it is easily discernible where it is prejudicial and bad, it’s not persuasive, confirming only that the anti-semitism existed. It is impossible to study and learn much of 20th century history, even 20th century interpretations of earlier periods still, without reference to this stuff. It can only be hoped that books from this 21st century, looked back upon retrospectively after coming events (if we do not or have not already with certainty exterminated all humanity) will learn how the seemingly intractable cultural clash between incomer wannabe Israelis and indigenous Palestinians were mutually and amicably resolved, through an unlikely outbreak of reparation, respect and tolerance.

  46. Off topic but thought it was of interest. Zero Dark Thirty (an acronym for half past midnight) is the film made by Katheryn Bigelow that extols the virtues of the Navy Seals and their so called killing of Osama Bin Laden.

    Academy Award voting member announces he will not vote for ZD30 in any category

    http://gregmitchellwriter.blogspot.com/2013/01/steve-coll-vs-zero-dark-thirty.html

    “The Motion Picture Academy clearly warns its members not to disclose their votes for Academy Awards. Nevertheless, I firmly believe that the film Zero Dark Thirty promotes the acceptance of the crime of torture, as a legitimate weapon in America’s so-called War on Terror. In that belief, following my conscience, I will not vote for Zero Dark Thirty in any category. I cannot vote for a film that makes heroes of Americans who commit the crime of torture.”

  47. BrusselsLout

    12 Jan, 2013 - 8:34 pm

    Node — Britain’s culture is founded on Christianity. Not every British citizen is Christian, true. Far from it. But that’s because Christianity is all inclusive. One of its grounding principles is never to reject anyone.

    But if you’re a Christian moving to a muslim nation say, you could well be ostracized. Just try to move to Israel, and you won’t be allowed in if you’re not Jewish. Indeed, Christian Jews are rejected by mainstream Jews.

    Britain is now multi-culti BECAUSE of its Christian roots. And I believe its politicians should be doing more to support its church’s preachers.

  48. ” (…) Rev. Sizer is, in effect, being hounded not for his own expressed opinions, but for the opinions of others. Who out there, that is a prolific researcher and user of the internet, could stand up to the kind of scrutiny Rev. Sizer seems to have been subjected to? Certainly not many of those hounding Rev Sizer. Among them, there is a universal taste for linking to blog spots dripping with unmoderated, out-and-out Zio-Fascist racist comments, including Harry’s Place, CifWatch, BBC Watch, Elder of Zyon, Richard Millett’s blog, IsraelNational News. (…)

    http://hoffmanchronicled.wordpress.com/the-stephen-sizer-affair-2/

  49. OK, BrusselsLout, fair enough.
    I was just (a little mischievously) making the point that I, a Briton, do not believe that I “have a duty to stand up for our churchmen”.

  50. Henry Forester

    12 Jan, 2013 - 9:08 pm

    Zionist and pro-Israeli Jews have by now completely devalued the accusation of anti-semitism by its massive and unwarranted application to anyone who criticizes the actions of that appaling “state” stolen from the Palestinians. It has become the first refuge of the scoundrel.

    But what is really shocking to me is the knowing application of the financial mis use of the law (ie, knowing that their enemies will be bankrupted in the effort to clear their name, while they are bankrolled by zionist money).

    Isn’t it about time we just told them to “go fuck themselves” – they have reduced the accusation of anti semitism to the status of a JOKE.

  51. BrusselsLout

    12 Jan, 2013 - 9:17 pm

    Smacks of the notorious fiasco Operation Ore, where large numbers of British guys had their homes busted into by police for suspicion of viewing child porn — when none actually had. Some had viewed an adult porn site which also, it turned out, had a child porn section. NONE of these guys had actually viewed those pages or were interested in it. But because of the association, they had their homes raided in the middle of the night, traumatizing them, their wives and their children. (Others were victims of identity theft after ordering goods, like bicycle parts, from some company in America.)

    It looks like the police have now very little to do. Crime is in decline. The press horrifies the public, and the police are back in business.

  52. doug scorgie

    12 Jan, 2013 - 9:48 pm

    The Jewish Chronicle has long been a British Zionist mouthpiece and the Board of Deputies advocates for the Jewish State. Reading the Chronicle these days is like reading the blog Harry’s Place where no criticism of Israel is allowed to pass.

    The upcoming election in Israel could see the establishment of the far-right religious Zionist party – Jewish Home. If so, forget about a Palestinian state; forget about peace.

    Keep your eye on this election and take note of comments from the Board of Deputies and the Jewish Chronicle (and even the British government) if the far-right make gains.

  53. Jewish Boards of Deputies don’t all have a glorious history. It took the South African one 70 years to condemn apartheid there.

    Being called an anti-semite is standard for any critic of Israel. A strange term as Semitic is a language group. Palestinians are Semitic speakers while the Jewish Boards of Deputies here aren’t. Palestinians are also far, far more likely to be descendents of the Israelites than they are. Ironic huh.

  54. I strongly suggest Rev. Sizer file harassment, discrimination, and libel charges against the BOD post haste.

  55. I have a Sunni Muslim friend from Iran who owns a restaurant. He hates Jews. I love his food. Am I anti-Semitic?

  56. The smear of anti-semitism has become so ubiquitous and the consequences of a successful smear so severe that surely something must be done to stop such false accusations.

    In agreement with Metrognome, the approach taken must be legal, and perhaps legal in nature. A charge of liable or slander could be the way to go with claims of massive damages. This presents a classic catch 22: if the settlement is relatively small then it is shown that the branding of anti-semite is trivial and no big deal; if massive, then such awards should quickly eliminate false accusations.

    Slightly O/T but here is a great site for understanding the Balfour declaration, the formation of Israel, and the continuation of the crime ever since. It is historically accurate, truthful, and not anti-semitic!
    http://middleeastrealitycheck.blogspot.com.au/

  57. Can food be anti-Semitic?

  58. The BBC are doing a good job for Israhell. Kevin Connolly who lives in Jerusalem was on Radio 4 Today this morning describing Israel as being surrounded by hostile nations. No irony.

    0742
    Israel’s parliamentary election campaign has entered its final two weeks, but it was edged out as the nation’s top talking point by a spectacular outbreak of wintry weather. Even before the storms, bread and butter campaign issues were struggling to force themselves onto the agenda of a nation where national security issues traditionally dominate political life. Correspondent Kevin Connolly reports.

    43mins 30secs in

  59. There he goes again.

    Breaking news. Cameron is sending two C17 transport planes to Mali to assist the French operation.

    ~~~

    Monsieur Hollande is placing all government buildings in France on high security alert.

  60. RIP Aaron Swartz internet freedom activist aged 26 who took his own life. He was facing trial on hacking charges.

    ‘He later became an advocate of internet freedom, and was facing hacking charges at the time of his death.

    He was among the founders of the Demand Progress campaign group, which lobbies against internet censorship.

    The hacking charges relate to the downloading of millions of academic papers from online archive JSTOR, which prosecutors say he intended to distribute for free.

    He denied charges of computer fraud at an initial hearing last year, but his federal trial was due to begin next month.’

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21001452

  61. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Jan, 2013 - 11:21 pm

    We’ve been talking all day, Mary. When you consider all the scofflaws (neocons, torturers and their enablers) still walking the streets, smokin’ their cubanos, it makes you want to puke.

    It’s my opinion that this is another case of Selective Prosecution, not prosecutorial discretion.

    I believe the former is a crime worthy of the name Felony.

  62. Kempe (12 Jan, 2013 – 3:29 pm) says

    “A quick glance at the evidence the BoD website reveals a link to “iamthewitness”, this site has a clearly advertised section on The Protocols of the Elders of Zion which Sizer must’ve been aware of.”

    Well actually the home page is huge – 31 full-page scrolls top to botttom – and contains 4 columns packed with different media and links. My ballpark estimate is 350 different links. If you scroll down 4 pages, your screen will display a jumbled mix of 20 different photo, video, radio and text links. One of them is a 3 liner saying:

    Text To Audio
    The Protocols
    Stomach Turning Listening

    This is the only occurrence of the word “protocols” so this must be the “clearly advertised section on The Protocols of the Elders of Zion which Sizer must’ve been aware of.”
    I could only find it with Ctrl+f. Come on Kempe, be honest, how long did it take you to spot it.

  63. “RIP Aaron Swartz internet freedom activist aged 26 who took his own life. He was facing trial on hacking charges.”

    https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/6554331

  64. Craig.
    You will of course know about this…

    Research findings on seven lost Robert Burns manuscripts

    12 January 2013 Last updated at 00:19 GMT

    Research into long-lost Robert Burns manuscripts is to be presented for the first time at a conference in Glasgow. The seven works, which include letters between the poet and his close friends, were found in 2010 inside a study of Burns’ works dating from 1877-79…”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20991459

    I still can’t fathom your fascination with this spy however.

  65. [Apologies if this has been mentioned already, I’m half asleep. Sorry.]

    After it was nominated for an Oscar, Israel is claiming 5 Broken Cameras as its own, despite its Palestinian origins:

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/oscar-nominated-5-broken-cameras-israeli-or-palestinian-film

  66. I never came across it on the site, but wasn’t looking for it (the PoEoZ), got engrossed in some interesting stuff found there worth a second look: I later sampled Behind Communism by Frank L. Britton, available on hundreds of other websites too, it tries to tell the story of pre, during and post-revolutionary Russian history, not found hardly anywhere else, and can hardly do so without mention of its Jewish population and their huge role, it has a tellingly critical tinge that intrudes on the story, found even when quoting directly from the Jewish Encyclopedia which is relied on heavily, but it builds to greater amounts of reds under the bed hysteria, typical of the 1930s American authorship of the earliest-written and bulk part of the book. If it weren’t for the BoD it would have remained in greater obscurity. It isn’t an impossibility to be anti-jewish with perfect ethical and moral justification, nothing is above criticism, it like all religions simply being a set of madcap ideas, constituting a bogus identity, rammed into impressionable minds and causing permanent damage. It seems any subject matter which mentions the chosen ones, not closed off only for their exclusive consumption, and which isn’t quite the prescribed Hollywood gloss revisionist whitewash version of events -is proscribed reading nowadays.

  67. RIP Aaron Swartz – RSS lives on brother.

  68. I’m with Cryptonym on this one. Thanks BoD and Kempe for the tip-off about this useful resource.
    http://www.iamthewitness.com/
    Sure there’s some stuff there that’s a bit rabid for my taste, but there is much that seems reasonable comment. There are links to subjects I’m already aware of, and even better, lots more intriguing links to fresh pastures. I’m a big boy, I can work out for myself how much weigh to attach to stuff I read on the internet.
    I’ve made a start with a pdf of a book called “The Nameless War” ….

    Archibald Maule Ramsay wrote the true history of events leading up to the Second World War. For this he was imprisoned for several years. Ramsay was from an aristocratic family (he was a descendent of the Earls of Dalhousie). He attended Eton College and the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, joining the Coldstream Guards in 1913. In the 1931 general election, Ramsay was elected as MP for Peebles and Southern Midlothian.

    It’s absolutely fascinating and resonates with a lot of my findings elsewhere.
    Really, thank you Bod, and particularly you, Kempe, for providing the link.

  69. Posting a link is now an offence? Blimey.

    http://www.holocaustdenier.com/

    Smell them apples then.

    Note: I do not deny the holocaust.

    It is almost funny, actually. The idea that posting a link is somehow worthy of anyone’s attention. Authoritarianism is, essentially, obsessive politicisation. Stuff that really doesn’t matter is deemed important in an authoritarian society. So, a grumble about a leader is no longer a natural reaction to an idiot, but ‘dissent’. Or a gathering of people is no longer a community event, but a ‘threat’. Etc etc. And it reaches into everyone’s life, at all levels. I feel it. Society is increasingly the science fictional atomized society so excellently portrayed in a William Gibson novel.

    This blog links all too well to the late Aaron Swartz. Apparently he was on charges for attempting to distribute academic material. This is barely a crime, if indeed a crime at all. But he was facing 20 years, so appears to have hanged himself. 20 years for copyright violation? A tragically apt example obsessive politicisation: a small matter blown way out of proportion, with tragic consequences. Sadly, we’re going to see much more of this, now that ‘hackers’ have become the new Red Scare. RIP, Aaron.

  70. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    13 Jan, 2013 - 1:54 am

    Yeah, but it was intellectual property, Brendan. The system charged students 35 bucks per for access to info MIT received for FREE !.

    Now that, should be a crime.

  71. Any criticism of barbaric acts of soviets could have branded you anti-communist had you lived in soviet republics. Ironically, a state backed by the west is now branding anyone who criticizes barbaric and inhuman acts of this state as antisemitic and trying to prosecute people globally. Soviets had to be ended to save lives of millions. Something to ponder for the freedom of our children.

  72. Ben 11.22 pm,

    Excellent post Ben.

    You’re now hitting what F Scott Fitzgerald would’ve called the “high white note”

    Or Hunter S woulda called “the high water mark”.

    Way to go Ben.

    I likey…:.)

  73. Since visiting Iran in 2006, Stephen Sizer has been asked too many times whether he accepted the fact, that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had threatened the existence of the Jewish state.

    He has been accused of ‘recognising Ahmadinejad’s antisemitism’, an obviously false double negative.

    http://hurryupharry.org/2011/11/10/stephen-sizer-on-his-links-with-irans-khomeinists-ill-go-anywhere-to-share-the-gospel/

    In a world that is breathing knowledge from the fruits of a communication eruption, the gift of enlightenment unites us. It was certainly a warm feeling to know Iran did her best to warn America of a terrorist attack and in real good time to prevent it.

    The ‘Asset’ – http://www.salon.com/2004/07/22/iran_63/

    Certainly I had a cold feeling when successive US Zombie Administrations replied in thanklessness by Iranian sanctions, threats, the murder(ing) of Syrian friends and busting a major Iranian TV world news outlet PressTV by threatening her broadcast satellite owners.

    May I say this to you Mr President Obama – it is now Iran’s turn to play with the ball and now show the world proof of the great American treason – then and only then can we evolve.

  74. Mark Golding: It was certainly a warm feeling to know Iran did her best to warn America of a terrorist attack and in real good time to prevent it.

    That link doesn’t say what you say it does. It doesn’t detail any warning by Iran, but rather by an “ex-patriot” defector from Iran’s intelligence service who gave some vague assertion that there could be some attack involving “planes and terrorists”. That’s hardly something that you can act on even if you hear about it in “real good time”. In fact, be a little bit careful in your claims as the story is rather about how Iran may have known about the attacks and did not warn “the Great Satan” as you seem to be calling the US these days.

    As for Sizer, I have no idea whether he’s anti-Semitic (and, by the way, the word is plain to anyone but the dumbest or playing-dumbest pedants), but I had a look at that I Am The Witness website and it is about as obviously an anti-Semitic and conspiratorial website as there is. If you had difficulty locating the Protocols on that site then the big adverts for “Syanagogues of Satan”, the links to articles on “Jewish Bolshevism”, the accusations that Jews ran the Atlantic slave trade, the accusations that Jews funded the Nazis, the apparent praise for Father Charles Coughlin (if you’ve read Philip Roth’s Plot Against America you will know who he was) sort of give the game away. Same with Veterans Today which is one of the most obsessively anti-Israel Troofer sites.

    Of course, it is possible that he’s not remotely anti-Semitic and many of his best friends are Jews, and I also hope that people don’t lose their jobs for their wacky beliefs. That said, I think it was clueless of him to not see something like that coming; if he’s going to link to the rather bizarre conspiracy theory sites, it must, at the least, lose him credibility.

  75. I omitted the link to Kevin Connolly’s propaganda for the Israel ‘state’ on Radio 4 Today yesterday.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/b006qj9z/console

    43 mins 30 secs in

  76. Some interesting hypocrisy from Steinhardt. What’s good for the silly geese is not good for the gander.

    ‘But while Steinhardt is eager for young Americans to leave home and join a foreign state and army, he’s not so keen on doing so himself. Steinhardt said of Israel in 2010:

    “Its politicians are, writ large, awful; its businessmen are of less than glorious quality; and when you walk down Dizengoff Street in Tel Aviv and you look around at these people and you say, ‘This is who you admire?’ I often say it’s easier to be a Zionist in Manhattan than it is in Tel Aviv.”

    Other big donors to Birthright Israel include Israel firster and Casino-billionaire Sheldon Adelson who bankrolled the Republican campaign in the 2012 US elections.’

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/watch-there-was-no-palestinian-people-big-donor-birthright-israel-tells-max

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Steinhardt

  77. All this conspiracy bullshit is just more smoke and mirrors.

    We are all benaficiaries of a beutiful planet,

    What a wonderful world it could be if we simplified.

  78. Angrysoba

    Do you also deny what Israel is doing now? Their apartheid state with it’s apartheid wall. Their flouting of international law. The illegal siege of Gaza. Their illegal occupation of Palestine and their illegal building of settlements.

    Is it anti Semitic to say that what Israel is doing to the Palestinians now is a crime against humanity?

  79. Without wishing to denigrate Mr Sizer, the fact is he believes that there is a magic guy in the sky who implanted himself into a woman in order to adopt the form of a human while at the same time still existing in two other ‘modes’, i.e. the father and the holy ghost, which in itself is a heresy to it’s own claim that there is but one God. Also, the bible makes extravagant claims and promises including the destruction of anyone who alters it, yet it had been considerably altered since 300 AD – which is why the Dead Sea Scrolls are off limits to joe public.

    For fear of being censored let me give you an example, and this is totally verifiable to anyone that cares to get off their backsides and have a look. Since the 17th Century various bible societies have promoted not ‘translations’, but ‘interpretations’ of bible text to fit modern language . The most striking feature of these updates has been the abuse of the Latin word “Iudaeus” or “Ioudaios” in Greek. This word means literally a dweller of Judea, nothing more. It is also happens to be the root of the modern word ‘Jew’. This word has been gradually replacing words such a Levite and Israelite in the bible, thereby altering its literal meaning – don’t take my word for it check it for yourselves.

    Not only is this diluting the original texts by removing information (although it is claimed that these translations bring new ‘understanding’) but it is reinforcing the idea that the people who call themselves Jews today are the same Jews as in the bible – it is a fact that they are not. The Jews of today are East European’s who ‘converted’ to Judaism (actually they adopted an esoteric version of Judaism) between the 9th and 11th centuries.

    A read of the Professor of Hebrew Studies at Tel Aviv University book “The Invention of the Jewish people” will provide much enlightenment. Also Shlomo Sand is a Jew and his book was number one best seller in Israel for a long time and is frankly more believable than the talking bushes, magicians, mediums and psychics that one encounters in the bible.

  80. Mark Golding – Children of Conflict 13 Jan, 2013 – 2:24 am

    It is no secret that Ahmadinajad is himself descended from an Iranian Jewish family and that the largest population of Jews in the Middle East outside of Israel is in Iran. Not those East European converts mind but the real deal with Hebrew genes – which may explain their reluctance to embrace the extreme form of racism and hatred of humanity that is the modern state of Israel – and despite the Israeli government offering them piles of money and land (not their own of course).

  81. “Without wishing to denigrate Mr Sizer, the fact is he believes that there is a magic guy in the sky who implanted himself into a woman in order to adopt the form of a human while at the same time still existing in two other ‘modes’, i.e. the father and the holy ghost, which in itself is a heresy to it’s own claim that there is but one God. Also, the bible makes extravagant claims and promises including the destruction of anyone who alters it, yet it had been considerably altered since 300 AD – which is why the Dead Sea Scrolls are off limits to joe public. ”

    The story makes a bit more sense if you consider maybe Heaven and Hell were invented by the Romans as a method of getting people to do as they were told. If the early Christians actually believed in reincarnation and that Jesus was Adam reincarnated that would make Adam the father in the father son and holy ghost. It would also explain why Jesus felt personally responsible for all the sin in the world and that he was the only one could atone for it.

  82. m simple terms, how does someone look for information sites for things want to find about? Can any individual figure out how to Read through information sites through subject as well as any about author?

  83. @angrysoba @6:07am I agree the Salon item -I thought too was a bit vague and didn’t support the assertions made here, and the Chicago Tribune article it is based upon cannot be located at the link given. As ‘The Asset’ had been living in the US for twenty five years, he can hardly be considered representative of or speaking on behalf of or for any level of the Iranian Govt. or had much real time information out of Iran, except maybe through sub-agents or contacts he sought or maintained on behalf of the US. The information given in April 2001, that the pilots were under training, is pretty specific and firm and was only one of dozens of indications supplied to the US, sometimes from the highest diplomatic levels, and from scores of countries and agencies that something big involving planes was in preparation. Conventional hijackings as we know them do not or have not included the hijackers taking along their own pilots. US govt. involvement still comes down to two scenarios, let it happen or made it happen. Each is damning enough.

    The screen shots shown in the appendix to the BoD rubbish don’t show any link anywhere to either iamthewitness or the other one -windowintopalestine. Even if it does, I’ve seen websites with blog rolls and links off to the side consisting of many dozens of sites, sometimes generated automatically froom even longer lists, it would be absurd to wade through those links, and then several levels of links in depth from there to find if there was anything suspect or with which you did not agree or someone might dislike; that is the web, good bad and ugly, our own innate commonsense is the mediator and filter.

    It has simply long been the case that anyone concerned enough to learn the facts about the running sore that is the Israeli state and the enduring racist and genocidal treatment of the Palestinian people is increasing ineffectually smeared as anti-semitic, there is much legitimate and fair criticism of the darkest most abhorrent deeds which can be levelled at the religious/ethnic supremacist state called Israel, its governments, military, predominant or most vocal extremists provide ample evidence in word and deed. There is much history of Eastern Europe and Russia, that does not accord with the post ww2 cold war spin on prior events we have been force fed, the nature of the early revolutionary regimes and new elites that rose there and their epic scale crimes which may even dwarf later events we’ve never been allowed to let fade in the least. Sadly this Hoffman character seems to typify the mindset rather than him being now the blowhard loose cannon exception as attempts are made to dissociate from and marginalise him. This incessant and undue crying wolf when faced the mildest of fact and evidence derived criticism, even honest inquiry, looking for credible explanation, simply serves now to reinforce impressions that those engaging in such tactics have some appalling things to hide and an untenable position to defend. Now simply seeking to find such facts or evidence, much less form any conclusion or express an opinion, is being attacked and denied, though such attempts will, ought to and can only fail miserably.

  84. Craig

    I am glad you have picked this issue up. The complaint of “anti-semitism” against Stephen Sizer is a pile of pants as anyone looking at the “evidence” compiled by the BoD can easily see. For the BoD to be right you have to believe that by temporarily linking to an otherwise innocuous article or photo on a website which also contained some dodgy material Sizer secretly wanted his readers to be influenced by the latter even though it contradicts all his public statements on anti-semitism.

    This is really a political campaign to stop his church funding his international ministry. Sizer travels around the world and is an effective advocate of justice for the Palestinians as part of a peace settlement in the Middle East.

    I’ve had some amusing arguments on the Harry’s Place comments thread on the issue. Their guest poster was none other than Nick Howard, the son of the former Conservative leader who was rejected by the Church of England as “unsuitable for ordination”. He is now a “Rev” at some quasi-Anglican offshoot in New York. (The Mailonline archive has an extremely interesting article about why the CofE rejected Howard)

    “Joseph W” who Sizer sued is also involved in the campaign. Harry’s Place also hosts regular posts from him, including one where he describes how he rejected Sizer’s efforts at reconciliation. So there are likely to be some personal issues involved there as well.

  85. ‘No boots on the ground’. When have we heard that before from Agent Cameron.

    This is what the intervention by Monsieur Hollande and his Western pals is really about.

    http://www.consultancyafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=565:mali-and-its-mining-sector-a-focus-on-gold-while-minerals-are-unexplored&catid=82:african-industry-a-business&Itemid=266

    Gold, iron ore, bauxite etc.

    For good measure, this is what Libya was – ‘Africa’s most prosperous democracy’ – before an evil coalition laid waste to it.

    http://www.countercurrents.org/chengu120113.htm

    The trolls here will not like to read the contents.

  86. From the BoD’s complaint:

    “Window into Palestine carries on it’s home page a person with caricatured nose wrapped in an Israeli flag”

    What’s funny here is that the cartoon in the screenshot is a caricature of Stephen Harper, the Prime Minister of Canada, who does have a respectably-sized olfactory protrusion (his most caricaturable feature in a rather bland face), and who is not Jewish at all, though his policies are presumably too pro-Israeli for Window Into Palestine’s liking.

    Even more ironic is that the cartoon forms part of a link to an article on a report by the Canadian Parliament that apparently conflates criticism of Israel with antisemitism. To one-up the Canadian Parliament, the Board of Deputies has decided that criticism of Israeli-supporting non-Jews should now be considered antisemitic.

  87. Phil W. wrote” It is not a small matter and I think it important that we do support Stephen Sizer whatever we think of his religion.”

    Phil my point was directed at the CofE, if it cannot stifle and counter such methods of subverting and undermining one of its own clergy, some who seems to think a little harder than the majority of them, what chance has the public got?
    This is an attack on the whole of the CofE, can they not see this, it has nothing to do with religion but ethnicity and rancour.

    In no way was I denigrating his religious beliefs.

    What support has Mr. Sizer got from his own clergy? cause if he has none, he’s toast.

    The links from Richard Armbach showing the clear connection between the EDL, Anders Breivig and Zionists fascists, with Melanie Phillips excuses for blatant murder on the high seas, providing the mood music in Breivigs manifesto, showing how much more influence Zionists have in this country than the CofE. And then there is Pam Geller…..

  88. “Gold, iron ore, bauxite etc.”

    Sounds like a job for Dan Gertler.

  89. “The links from Richard Armbach showing the clear connection between the EDL, Anders Breivig and Zionists fascists, with Melanie Phillips excuses for blatant murder on the high seas, providing the mood music in Breivigs manifesto, showing how much more influence Zionists have in this country than the CofE. And then there is Pam Geller…..”

    And not once has the ZF nor BOD distanced themselves from this EDL connection.

  90. Is this this article by the BBC’s Jonathan Fryer referring to Craig as the unnamed “former British diplomat”?

    Putting the welcome mat out in Baghdad

    Back at the al-Rasheed Hotel, a former British diplomat was demanding whisky. This caused considerable consternation from our hosts because, since the Shia-led government has been in charge, Baghdad has largely gone dry.

    …And spirits were raised when the former British diplomat turned up triumphantly bearing a bottle of Chivas Regal whisky, courtesy of the Iraqi foreign minister himself.

  91. The Anti-Semitic links accusation targeting Stephen Sizer by the Board of Deputies of British Jews are clearly ridiculous. His ‘crime’ is that he points out the nature of the Israeli government and it’s despicable treatment of the Palestinians. Whilst other posters have indicated it would be better to contribute to assist the Palestinians directly , Stephen Sizer has done an awful lot to expose the crimes of Israel and I will be donating to his defence fund.

  92. Off course, Ms. Sherwood, it was a ‘swoop’ not a flagrant abuse of military and police powers in a land that does not belong to Israel.

    Ms. Sherwood also seems to think that the right wing spring in Israel will sweep Netanyahu back to power because the Israeli’s are ‘scared’ about their future.
    No shit…

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/13/isarel-evicts-e1-palestinian-peace-camp

  93. Anon

    Good spot – yes, that was me!

  94. Franky Boyle Comedian Criticised Israeli attacks on Gazza. Within months people found his jokes to be offensive and before long he was booted off Mock The Week.

    There is much more to oor Franky than his cutting humour. He is also a supporter of Independence for Scotland. Recently he won a libel case against The Daily Miror which had accusd him of racism.

    In fact he’s becoming a bit of a modern day working class hero.

  95. Och Aye, should add that i’m not oor Franky, or his maw!

  96. “And not once has the ZF nor BOD distanced themselves from this EDL connection.”

    Israel Defense Forces’ official Facebook page actually links & “Likes” this;

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/English-Defence-League-Jewish-Division-EDL/273631225982472

    (I noticed that the EDL Jewish Division are hot on reporting crimes committed by Muslims, especially sexual crimes,so I was tempted to bring this to their attention;

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4329339,00.html

    but that would entail openning a FB account.

  97. Clearly the whisky was too easy. Try asking for “a pint of heavy” next time you are in Baghdad :-)

    Wonder if Fryer named you in the original draft?

  98. @ Kempe 13 Jan, 2013 – 11:51 am

    You seems to have forgotten your original claim. Allow me to refresh your memory …
    You claimed earlier in this thread:

    “A quick glance at the evidence the BoD website reveals a link to “iamthewitness”, this site has a clearly advertised section on The Protocols of the Elders of Zion which Sizer must’ve been aware of.”

    I pointed out:

    “”Well actually the home page is huge – 31 full-page scrolls top to botttom – and contains 4 columns packed with different media and links. My ballpark estimate is 350 different links. If you scroll down 4 pages, your screen will display a jumbled mix of 20 different photo, video, radio and text links. One of them is a 3 liner saying:

    Text To Audio
    The Protocols
    Stomach Turning Listening

    I could only find this one link among 350 by using Ctrl+F to search the whole page for the word “protocol”. I invited you to honestly tell us how long it took you to find this “clearly advertised section” and by inference suggested that Sizer wasn’t necessarily aware of it. You have responded by pasting a link to a Google Search page. What has that got to do with whether or not “this site has a clearly advertised section on The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”?

    I guess you concocted a claim to make Sizer look bad, then when called on it, realised you couldn’t back it up and dishonestly tried to shift the grounds of your claim. I’ve read about this blogging technique somewhere, now where was it …?

    I await your accusations of anti-Semitism next.

  99. “Franky Boyle Comedian Criticised Israeli attacks on Gazza. Within months people found his jokes to be offensive and before long he was booted off Mock The Week. ”

    I think you will find people found his jokes offensive long before that.

    Probably because his jokes were offensive.

  100. Ahem… A jury has found the suggestion that Frankie Boyle was forced to quit “Mock the Week” as not true and libellous.

    They also found that it was not true that he was a racist.

    The Daily Mirror was ordered to pay him £54,650 by the jury/

  101. ‘Made it happen’ is my own damning conclusion Cryptonyme including i must add using Israel’s nuclear destruction expertise.

    In a world of hypocrisy and state secrets I admit it is hard for me to be totally objective and offer irrefutable proven evidence. My exposure to ‘Eyes only’ cables has developed a seasoned cynicism although not without hope for a better, more resourceful and beautiful world.

    As an example ‘Not for South Africa Eyes’ cables opened my eyes to the pretense and deceptive interplay that underscored Britain’s relationship with South Africa, just to maintain key links esp. gold supplies.

    While apartheid was deemed abominable and criminal in SA, America and Britain could not take the risk of South Africa becoming a puppet state of the Soviet Union. [Josef Luns 1984)

    It follows while NATO gave the United States Supreme Allied Commander, Atlantic (SACLANT) authority to plan for the protection of shipping lines in the Indian Ocean and the South Atlantic, including surveillance and communications, South Africa, having developed a naval communications centre in Silvermine, with equipment from West Germany to monitor the movement of Soviet ships, was in contact with the British Navy and the United States through Puerto Rico.

    Abdul Minty, Director of the World Campaign against Military and Nuclear Collaboration with South Africa in Oslo discussed military or technical contacts between NATO and South Africa at a private meeting with SA foreign minister Botha; ad interim Israel collaborated with SA to modify, simulation test and finally detonate a nuclear weapon near the British annexed Prince Edward island. Is that the Pinnacle of Deceit?

    Obviously nothing of this was public knowledge at the time, Mr Edward Heath and his counter-austerity inflation bill had gone and with Labour running scared, Thatcher waited to further exploit the British people and South Africa to boot.

  102. Jonathan Fryer. MI something or other? Obviously keeping an eye out on general activities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Fryer

    See Nigel Chism the treasurer of IPRA to whom Fryer is a ‘consultant’.

    http://uk.linkedin.com/in/nigelchism

  103. @N_ 12th Jan 11:33am

    This link is a bit old (sorry). I know that there are non zionists in the Israeli parliament, but I cannot find any links except for this one…

    http://newvoices.org/2009/02/12/0036-4/

  104. By clicking on Kajima Partnerships LinkedIn takes you to Stockley Park, a business park at Heathrow where M&S, Embassy of Canada, Glaxo Smith Kline, Apple and Canon are occupiers.

    http://www.kajima.co.uk/case-studies/stockley_park/

    Kajima themselves are in to PFI and PPP projects. These are some of their investments. Note the predominance of government buildings, schools and hospitals.

    http://www.kajima.co.uk/case-studies/

  105. Spelling mistakes. Sorry!

    beautiful / beneficiaries?

  106. @”A Node”: fwiw, I clicked on the iamthewitess link too: I scanned the first page for about twenty seconds and saw little of immediate concern, then paged down and spotted the link to “The Protocols” (i.e. the PoEoZ), followed by a section entitled “The Complete Synagogue of Satan”, etc. I didn’t need to use an automatic searching facility. I had the page open for less than a minute; it didn’t take too long to get the gist.

  107. Private capital won’t invest other people’s money (which is all they have to gamble with) in anything in the UK, unless the returns are stupendous, failure or loss guaranteed impossible by taxpayer indemnity. It’s like some extended warranty scheme, payments to which amount to many times more than the cost of simply buying several of the covered appliance, as spares. The average consumer would run a mile from schemes, just as you think our politicians are cunning greedy con-men, they’re proven, not even that but simply thick or think we are.

    I thought Heath’s dire legacy in economics, culinating in the greatest bank robberies ever was bad enough, but had he not started the ball rolling, Thatcher would have been a pushover and quickly made up for lost time. Come back Harold Wilson, even Harold MacMillan, all is forgiven. The only requirement since for the top political job is for the would be PM to be a clueless manipulable lame duck.

    see: Well, how did we get here?

    Surprised at indications that Balls’ of all people ran Blair like a clockwork toy, counter to the obfuscation that he was Brown’s protege, Balls was toying with them both all along.

    I’ve checked the link for incidental Israeli content, “No matches found for ‘rotocols’ but there is this: “Three months before John Smith’s death in 1994, the then shadow home secretary Tony Blair went on a trip to Israel at the Israeli government’s expense. Blair was sympathetic to Israel, had shared chambers with the president of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, Eldred Tabachnik, and had joined the Labour Friends of Israel on becoming an MP. On Blair’s return from Israel, Gideon Meir, from the Israeli embassy in London, introduced him to Michael Levy, a retired businessman who had become a major fund-raiser for Jewish charities. Levy was ‘dazzled by Blair’s drive and religious commitment’ and the two men became friends. A month later the leader of the Labour Party, John Smith, died, and Blair became leader.”

    Here’s BoD again, he fair gets around does BoD.

  108. @ Macky, enjoy, I have posted your link on to the EDL’s Jewish contingent’s FB page, let them eat sugar.

  109. Nextus

    There is plenty on the iamthewitess site which indicates a hostile attitude to Jews and nearly all of it would be deemed anti-Semitic by BoD. That is not my point.

    I believe Kempe selected PoEoZ as the basis for his attempt to prove Sizer guilty as charged for the same reason as the BoD included it in their ‘evidence’ against him – its an easy smear. You are automatically an anti-semite by association if you can be connected to it. Unfortunately for BoD and Kempe, the connection in this case is so tenuous as to be laughable.

    I would be interested to hear if you agree with Kempe’s description of the link as “a clearly advertised section [….] which Sizer must’ve been aware of.”

  110. Richard Armbach

    13 Jan, 2013 - 6:45 pm

    re Henry Forrester 9.08 pm 2013

    Isn’t it about time we just told them to “go fuck themselves”

    Henry I think it probably is.I guess the only difference between you and I is that I am arriving at the conclusion with the most extreme reluctance.

    Craig that last mathematical test was a bit of a stretch. Keep them simple please.

  111. @ A Node (3.08pm) : fully agree with your analysis of Kempe’s post. But don’t worry about him accusing you of anti-semitism, he won’t – he’s too clever to do that.

    Kempe’s posts deserve careful reading – some of you have called me a shill and a troll, but I suggest that it’s the Kempes who are the dangerous ones on here. A man worth watching.

    Why does the handle “Kempe” always bring Colonel Richard Kemp to my mind? Must be old age.

  112. Totally off topic trivia which will be tomorrow mornings breakfast trivia.

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/pictures_the_queen_sees_the_funny_side_when_bentley_refuses_to_start_after_sandringham_church_service_1_1791021

    Its to be seen whether Stephen can call upon the gods for some divine intervention in his case against the BoD, cause by the sound of it he hasn’t got much support from his own quarter.
    Bentley’s? ….pah.

  113. “Kempe’s posts deserve careful reading – some of you have called me a shill and a troll, but I suggest that it’s the Kempes who are the dangerous ones on here. A man worth watching.”

    I think the reason you get called a troll is because you spend so much time slagging of the other posters and so little time discussing the issues.

    You get called a troll because you behave like a troll.

  114. O/T

    I suspect it might not be long before questions are asked about Aaron Swartz’s death and whether it was a genuine suicide or not.
    He was being persecuted by the DoJ for (admittedly illegal) downloading of academic papers for which the actual authors weren’t getting a red cent anyway. But there’s more:

    “Police found the body of the 26-year-old in his apartment in New York City borough of Brooklyn on Friday, said a spokeswoman for the city’s chief medical examiner.

    “Brooklyn’s chief medical examiner ruled the death a suicide by hanging, but no further detail is available about the mysterious death.

    “Last year, Swartz openly criticized the US and the Israeli regime for launching joint cyber attacks against Iran.

    “The blogger was also vocal in criticizing Obama’s so-called kill list and other policies …

    “Swartz was critical of monopoly of information by corporate cartels and believed that information should be shared and available for the benefit of society.

    “Information is power. But like all power, there are those who want to keep it for themselves,” he wrote in an online “manifesto” in 2008.

    “Based on that belief, the computer prodigy founded the nonprofit group DemandProgress.

    “The group launched a successful campaign to block a 2011 bill that the US House of Representatives called the Stop Online Piracy Act” (SOPA).

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=63561

  115. Although Rev. Sizer disavows any anti-semitism on his part, I do not find his disavowals credible.

    Here is a quotation from a previous e-mail regarding his blog:

    My experience in reading Rev. Sizer’s blog is that he does not show much sensitivity towards Jews, despite his disavowals of anti-Semitism.

    He always lays the blame for the Israel/Palestine problems squarely on Israel.
    It seems he fails to speak up in support of Jews in the face of anti-Semitic occurrences in your country, as at some recent football matches where there appear to have been anti-Semitic incidents on the part of some fans during matches — whereas, he was quick to speak up on behalf of Muslims after the appearance and dissemination of an anti-Muslim film originating in the USA.
    I have never heard or read on his blog any defense of Jews in the face of official anti-Semitic propaganda disseminated by many Muslim countries such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Pakistan, the UAE, Iran, et al.

    I’m also querying where Rev. Sizer gets funding for all the trips he makes, whether to the Holy Land or other parts of the world — this, to me, seems strange on the salary of a priest/vicar — I’m wondering whether the funding is not coming from some pro-Palestinian organizations when it comes to his frequent visits to the Holy Land.

    My thoughts on the Palestine/Israel problem is that there are just too many people, like Rev. Sizer, meddling in this situation, trying to dictate to Jews and Israel how to behave, while, very often, these same people fail to hold other countries to account for the human rights abuses these countries commit, e.g., (China/Tibet; Turkey/Northern Cyprus; Turkey/Kurds).

    My view is that there is a need for disciplinary action by his Diocese.

  116. Gandolfi
    13 Jan, 2013 – 11:12 am

    Cut out the early morning vodka or whatever.

  117. YoMiryam,

    That is truly pathetic. I had no idea that there had been recent anti-semitic behaviour by football supporters – as I didn’t know about it, I haven’t condemned it either, so do you claim that makes me an anti-semite?

  118. Doing nicely.

    Goldman bankers set for bonus windfall as profits rise
    Goldman Sachs bankers are poised for a bigger windfall when bonuses are handed out later this month after the US investment bank enjoyed a stronger 2012.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9797957/Goldman-bankers-set-for-bonus-windfall-as-profits-rise.html

    Network Rail executives in line for £900,000 bonuses
    Network Rail executives will enjoy bonuses of up to £900,000 each next year as passengers struggle to cope with above inflation fare rises.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/9799123/Network-Rail-executives-in-line-for-900000-bonuses.html

    and earlier in the week

    Gas boss forced out with a golden goodbye: As families face ever-rising bills, energy chief is walking away with up to £13m

    Phil Bentley is boss of British Gas which has doubled its prices in 7 years
    Windfall enough to pay typical family’s gas and electric bill for 9,500 years
    Bentley will leave company later this year as part of management overhaul

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2258695/Phil-Bentley-As-families-face-rising-bills-energy-chief-walking-away-13m.html

  119. YoMiryam Hasbara calling! Hasbara calling!

    A little late on in the proceedings though. Must keep up.

  120. YoMiryam

    When I look at Stephen Sizer’s web site I find what you say is not true.

    “But without wishing to minimise the horror of that day, or its collective effect, many, many, more people have, and do, die on a daily basis in other countries ruled by tyrants, oppressed by repressive regimes or torn apart by civil war, especially Christians. The list of countries is lamentably long and sometimes closer to home than we would wish – Somalia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Tibet, North Korea and Turkey, Egypt, Palestine…”

    Israel has a great deal of influence, influence with governments through lobbies and funding, influence in the media and a huge military might. The only thing that Palestinians have is right on their side. There is a huge imbalance, it is very much a David and Goliath situation. So if the commentaries of people like Rev. Sizer seem unbalanced to you it is because they have to be, they have to be to redress the huge imbalance which exists at the moment.

    I must say that Goliath keeping whinging “it’s not fair he’s got a sling” doesn’t do much to further their cause in my eyes either.

  121. An anti-semite is someone who hates someone of semitic origin simply because that person is semitic.

    I argue, therefore, that it is not anti-semitic:

    To deny the Jewish holocaust.
    To deny the uniqueness of the Jewish holocaust.
    To compare Jewish suffering with that of other peoples.
    To point out that Jews figured prominently in the Bolshevik Revolution.
    To claim that AIPAC calls the shots in the US’ Middle East foreign policy.
    To opposed the existence of the State of Israel.

    Such statements or claims may be controversial or dead wrong and could be motivated by anti-semitism but of themselves are not anti-semitic. Refusing a Jew (or Arab) a job because of their race is anti-semitism. Jailing or attacking a Jew or Arab because of their race is anti-semitism. Prejudicial behaviour is the key to anti-semitism.

  122. YoMiryam: I didn’t hear you speak out against alleged antisemitism in recent football matches. That makes you an anti-Semite, pal, by your own logic. And you didn’t even have the decency to denounce yourself.

    By the way, most of the blame for the Palestinian/ Israeli conflict belongs squarely on the side that’s done the most harm, killed the most people, and occupying the most land I’d say. Wonder which side that might be?

    In the face of zero opposition in US media to Israel’s continued aggression and encroachment of land (not to mention occupation of existing land, building on occupied land which is illegal under International Law, etc. etc.), does Sizer have to add to condemnation of Arabs and lend even further support to Israel? In order to be credible, in your twisted view, I suppose he should do nothing else.

    Israel has – after all – the absolute subservience of America’s political and media class. I mention America because that’s what really matters when it comes to these things, and you are obviously a pro-Israeli, American based stooge.

  123. @YoMiryam – “My thoughts on the Palestine/Israel problem is that there are just too many people, like Rev. Sizer, meddling in this situation, trying to dictate to Jews and Israel how to behave, while, very often, these same people fail to hold other countries to account for the human rights abuses these countries commit, e.g., (China/Tibet; Turkey/Northern Cyprus; Turkey/Kurds).”

    So your logic is unless one criticizes all that should be criticized, then one should not criticize anything at all. What a load of bullshit. No single problem would ever get solved if every discussion on an issue was mangled and diluted with commentary about every other problem. But your comment is not really about this issue because we can see very clearly that you’re just a mouth piece for Israel online propaganda. The real purpose of your comment is to diminish public support for Sizer so that his good work in support of Palestinians will be frustrated with legal problems and professional ostracision through character assassination. How do you pro-Israel flunkies sleep at night?

  124. Excellent interview with Chomsky from AJ, linked through RawStory:

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/13/noam-chomsky-blasts-obama-he-has-no-moral-center/

    Keep catching these. We’ll be missing his takes on current events all too soon, I fear… men rarely live this long. :(

  125. I read earlier that Semetic is a linguistic grouping which applies to the Palestinians and not most Israeli Jews. If so, it is like anti-Gaelic meaning anti-COE in historical conflict between Britain and Ireland. The Irish hostile to British control would have been charged as ‘anti-gaelic’ as Palestinians are charged as ‘anti-semite’ In opposition with their foe they would be coined anti-themselves. Amazing.

  126. Innocent bystander

    14 Jan, 2013 - 4:36 am

    “My experience in reading Rev. Sizer’s blog is that he does not show much sensitivity towards Jews, despite his disavowals of anti-Semitism.”

    Hasbara….Lacking sensitivity does not constitute anti-Semitism. Why do you require “special” sentiment?

    “He always lays the blame for the Israel/Palestine problems squarely on Israel.
    It seems he fails to speak up in support of Jews in the face of anti-Semitic occurrences in your country, as at some recent football matches where there appear to have been anti-Semitic incidents on the part of some fans during matches — whereas, he was quick to speak up on behalf of Muslims after the appearance and dissemination of an anti-Muslim film originating in the USA.
    I have never heard or read on his blog any defense of Jews in the face of official anti-Semitic propaganda disseminated by many Muslim countries such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Pakistan, the UAE, Iran, et al.”

    Hasbara….Israel is the occupier, not the occupied. Why would someone whose religious convictions include ministering to the downtrodden, include praising the perpetrators of said downtrodding? Are you lobbying Rev. Sizer for equal time and attention? Why would he defend Israel’s actions and/or policies of apartheid and suppression of a people he ministers to?

    “I’m also querying where Rev. Sizer gets funding for all the trips he makes, whether to the Holy Land or other parts of the world — this, to me, seems strange on the salary of a priest/vicar — I’m wondering whether the funding is not coming from some pro-Palestinian organizations when it comes to his frequent visits to the Holy Land.”

    More Hasbara….Christian outreach programs are going on all over the world and are funded in a variety of ways. So what if he did receive pro-Palestinian support group money? Do you want to dictate that? Pro-Palestinian money is just as spendable as Christian money….unless you have a problem with Palestinians?

    “My thoughts on the Palestine/Israel problem is that there are just too many people, like Rev. Sizer, meddling in this situation, trying to dictate to Jews and Israel how to behave, while, very often, these same people fail to hold other countries to account for the human rights abuses these countries commit, e.g., (China/Tibet; Turkey/Northern Cyprus; Turkey/Kurds).”

    Even more Hasbara….Israel’s behaviour has come to the attention of the world, not just Stephen Sizer, whose passion and vocation it is to ease the suffering of the oppressed and offer the world his faith based support and ministry.

    “My view is that there is a need for disciplinary action by his Diocese.”

    Discipline for what? Practicing his faith? Why? Because he’s not Jewish? If the CofE fails to support Rev. Sizer and capitulates to this Zio-facist vendetta, not just Stephen Sizer, but all of Christianity and all it stands for is in deep trouble.

    Posting the “wrong” links on the internet isn’t a basis for this action. Choosing who to minister to isn’t a basis for this action. Practicing one’s faith isn’t a basis for this action.

    Some of these “keyboard hasbara warriors” like Hoffman, Millet, Levick, and Arkush(BOD mouthpieces), have taken this internet propaganda war way too far. I often wonder if there’s a correlation between how loud and often anti-Semitism is screamed and how inhumane and indefencible Israel’s policies are? Maybe it’s just a case of “a good defence being a good offence”?

    A final thought….my Grandmother had a saying that seems applicable here…”Hate the sin, love the sinner”. How it applies to Israel is this: Her policies are the sin, her people are the sinners. This warped misuse of the label of anti-Semitism is just that…a misuse. Stephen Sizer doesn’t hate Jews. He just doesn’t support Israel’s policies nor condone her conduct in the world. The love he has for his fellow man is apparent, no matter their race or creed.

    Maybe an investigation into the persecution of Rev. Stephen Sizer should be commenced?

  127. Richard Armbach

    14 Jan, 2013 - 4:44 am

    re YoMyriam

    Anyone can have as much anti-Semitism as they want. All they have to do is quit speaking English, adopt a private language in which the expression means what you mean by it and abracadabra….. Just substitute YOUR concept of it for THE concept of it……..

    Stand on any random street and ask a hundred random people what they understand by the expression and I would bet Hull City’s chances of winning the Champions League that Israel wouldn’t get a mention.

    When the Board accuse Rev Sizer of anti Semitism they have quit speaking English.

    I have read Rev Sizers major works twice just to double check. Not the merest slightest hint of a negative attitude to Jews in many tens of thousands of words….anywhere. Rather the opposite.

    Rev Sizer is not the first, only or last victim of the intimidation he is suffering at the Boards hands.It has to stop. Sadly I think Metrognome is right, in that perhaps only a determined libel action from someone will do the trick.

  128. “”YoMiryam —– My thoughts on the Palestine/Israel problem is that there are just too many people, like Rev. Sizer, meddling in this situation, trying to dictate to Jews and Israel how to behave, while, very often, these same people fail to hold other countries to account for the human rights abuses these countries commit, e.g., (China/Tibet; Turkey/Northern Cyprus; Turkey/Kurds)”””

    Oh please, that “you’re always picking on Israel” whining is just so childish. Has it ever occurred to you that the Zionist state gets more attention than other crimes against humanist simply because it is given unconditional support by the Zionist occupied governments of USA/Canada/Australia/UK/France/etc. ??

    Your Zionist propaganda is exposed by the following “dictate to Jews and Israel how to behave”. “Jews and Israel” — How can you generalise about Jews when many many Jews are anti-Zionist and anti-Israel. Just like many Muslims are anti-Islamic terrorists.

    Trying to make Jews and Zionists and the Zionist occupying state of Israel is so crass and outdated now. It’s soooo 20th century.

    As soon as the Zionism is removed from Palestine so Jews, Muslims and Christians can once again live in peace the better! And my friend that is pro-semitic!!!

  129. I think any British politician who has sworn loyalty to another country should be barred from holding public office.

    It’s no wonder Cameron has no qualms about shafting the people of Britain if his loyalties are elsewhere.

  130. William Hague talking about arming the Syrian rebels.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_commons/newsid_9783000/9783755.stm

    Shouldn’t our government’s priorities be with our young people sleeping in shop doorways not overthrowing the enemies of Israel?

    Can’t afford benefits for the disabled but we can afford to supply Al Qaeda with guns.

  131. “William Hague talking about arming the Syrian rebels.”

    Ever since the North Wales paedophile ring story resurfaced after a two decade hiatus he has been hiding from the public. Occasionally his masters order him out of the darkness to point his pale, weak, feeble finger at Mr Assad, just as they ordered him to do the same with Gaddaffi. He then scuttles back into the darkness before anyone notices that he’s been creeping around. The media compliantly publish his latest nonsense without question and he lives for another day.

  132. Nevermind; “@ Macky, enjoy, I have posted your link on to the EDL’s Jewish contingent’s FB page, let them eat sugar.”

    Full kudos for that, but as suspected there’s no way they would let any negative link/comment last more than a few seconds on their page.

  133. O/T

    Production is stepped up in China for the Middletons’ Little Prince and Little Princess ranges.

    eg http://www.partypieces.co.uk/little-princess-napkins.html

    BREAKING NEWS:The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge’s baby is due in July, St James’s Palace confirms

  134. Richard Armbach

    14 Jan, 2013 - 11:22 am

    There is not much in the way of ” they ” in the EDL Jewish Division. There never really was, and such as there was diminished further when Roberta Moore fell out with the EDL and pitched her tent on Victor Vancier’s Jewish Task Force porch. The real issue is the links and associations between these people and a wing of the Zionist Federation.The crazies in this wing were not strictly speaking members, the links are informal.

    The real horror is that the Bod, the ZF and the JC have long been in possession of all the facts and they have simply ignored these facts and indulged and tolerated this wing.

    So the Board complaining to the Church about the ludicrous alleged ” racism ” of Rev Sizer is not only wrong, wrong and wrong again it is hypocrcy of the highest order.

  135. Here’s the blog’s official troll and shill again (me, apparently).

    Lack of logic displayed by many of the above posts. Various people say “oh, don’t engage with Habbabkuk, don’t feed the troll and then he’ll go away”. But you don’t seem to apply the same logic when it comes to answering someone like YoMyriam.

    Or do you seriously believe you’re having a “discussion” with YoMyriam? That there’s the slightest chance of your arguments convincing her? You know your own position, you can recognbise YoMyriaml for what she is – so why the flood of posts addresssed to her?

  136. @ Fred (8.59am) : absolutely agree. Recently a Hungarian politician (admittedly a far-right one) called for Hungarian politicians who also had Israeli citizenship to be publically identified. Naturally, this caused considerable indignation in the usual quarters.

    However, I think the idea of publically identifying UK politicians and high level civil servants who do have dual citizenship (whether Irish, Israeli, American or whatever) is an excellent one, which could only bring greater transparency to the political process. Most foreign countries would probably have no problem with this either, I imagine.

  137. Habbakuk

    Your participation in comments on this blog is welcome.

  138. “So the Board complaining to the Church about the ludicrous alleged ” racism ” of Rev Sizer is not only wrong, wrong and wrong again it is hypocrcy of the highest order.”

    The links between the Zionists and the EDL doesn’t lower my estimations of the Zionists any, it does, however lower my estimations of the EDL somewhat.

    The IDF are using the children of Gaza for target practice in blatant breach of the terms of the cease fire and bulldozing Palestinian homes in the West Bank to make way for illegal Jewish settlements. Compared to the Zionists the EDL are veritable saints, if they have any sense they will sever all links with Zionism or they will be getting themselves a bad name.

  139. @YoMiryam,

    You’ve received a lot of criticism for your comments, but I for one would like to give you a big thank you.

    You’ve united this blog more than it’s been for ages. Old foes have put aside their differences to unanimously condemn your post. You have inspired a show of support for the Rev Sizer which he will find very gratifying and you’ve undoubtedly increased the number of donations to his fighting fund. The eloquent defence of the Reverend triggered by your comments must surely have swung the balance in his favour amongst the dont-knows reading this blog. The carefully composed rebuttals of your remarks have clarified my own thoughts on the matter greatly, and I look forward to using some of these new ideas in future arguments with Zionists.

    Thank you also for the clear demonstration of how the defence of Zionism relies upon bluster and threats, and how easily it can be destroyed by reasoned argument. It was helpful of you to point out that you had merely copied and pasted the bulk of your post from elsewhere, thus underlining the difference in commitment between supporters and opponents of Zionism. I am encouraged me to redouble my efforts in support of the beleaguered Palestinian people.

    Please post again.

  140. Richard Armbach

    14 Jan, 2013 - 12:03 pm

    Koff

  141. Richard Armbach

    14 Jan, 2013 - 12:04 pm

    @ fred

  142. Craig; “Your participation in comments on this blog is welcome.”

    Perhaps you should try engaging in a rational debate with Habbakuk to see if you still feel the same way.

    Richard Armbach; “There is not much in the way of ” they ” in the EDL Jewish Division”

    Just for clarification, the “they” I was reffering to, was to the controllers of the FB page.

  143. Richard Armbach

    14 Jan, 2013 - 12:46 pm

    @ Macky ok thanks for the clarification

    Macky I am banned from Harry’s Place,CifWatch,BBCWatch,and Millet’s blog to name but a very few. It doesn’t bother me and I don’t bother trying to sneak back in on a change of user name.It just seems stupid to me to have a party line and run things so that people are just in effect talking to themselves. If someones idea of a blog is somewhere they go to for affirmation I am happy for them to get on with it.

    I think there is a case for saying bye bye to someone that is persistently hijacking the topic and wilfully hijacking the topic, abusing or threatening others and turning the blog into a zoo. Then the blog becomes worthless.

    On a cursory glance Habbakuk doesn’t seem to fall into any of those categories.And while rationality is good so is a bit of irrational emotion once in a while. Right Fred ? :o))

  144. On January 7, the Christmas day in Egypt, the Imam of the mosque in Tahrir Square area and many from his mosque walked to the church to visit and to celebrate Christmas with the Christians in Egypt.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CxTAOEkzUCs#!

    In Britain the EDL and BNP attempt to divide us with hatred and violence at a time when even mother earth is herself unstable with climate change and her resources depleted. When we pan out to the world view an irrational snap-shot of conflict appears framed by the show-downs between China and Japan as their warplanes tail each other, between America and Russia as their ships converge near Syria.

    Back in Britain discontent has passed germinating, a growing anger of government ineptitude is causing riots in Liverpool and in Ireland the cold cinders of unity are glowing once again. In these times we look towards the sun to dispel the shadows.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CxTAOEkzUCs#!

    The tortoise trusted the scorpion on his back crossing the deep river. They both died mid-crossing when the scorpion stung the tortoise. Before death the tortoise cried – why? – now we both will die. The scorpion replied, I had to, I am a scorpion.

  145. Richard Armbach

    14 Jan, 2013 - 1:07 pm

    Nice One Angrysoba

    I love this song

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSrusP5SZI4

    and I even more like this sorta kinda song

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGgfuwbTmUM

  146. “However, I think the idea of publically identifying UK politicians and high level civil servants who do have dual citizenship (whether Irish, Israeli, American or whatever) is an excellent one, which could only bring greater transparency to the political process. Most foreign countries would probably have no problem with this either, I imagine.”

    The problem here isn’t dual citizenship. The problem is the politicians who in their younger days were very ambitious and would do anything to get to the top so they went down the crossroads and signed the pact.

  147. @ Craig : thank you, I do appreciate your comment!

    @ A Node (12.01pm) : an excellent, ironically polite and above all elegant and intelligent post, which I recommend should become a kind of standard reply for future hasbara posts like Yomiryam’s. By the way, I very much agree with the notion that much of this hasbara is a question of bluster and attempted intimidation; although I’m not exactly holding my breath, it would be interesting to see the reaction if people (falsely) accused of anti-semitism were to respond with a cheerful “yes, absolutely, and I don’t have much time for the [ here you insert your own preferred nationality or religious group] either”. Who knows, if enough people reacted thus and in sufficiently ironical mode, whether the air wouldn’t go out of this anti-semitism balloon very quickly.

    Finally, re my comment on the declaration of dual nationality, in practice this could be done easily for MPs through the Register of Interests. How to apply it to high civil servants needs a little further thought.

  148. Great choice, Fred!

    By the way, as I brought up the sad anti-Muslim bigot Brigitte Bardot recently, I think it might be nice to remember her in better days. With Serge Gainsbourg:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY9PY4r83p8

  149. Saw yours after posting mine, Fred.

    Of course, you’re right, there’s all the others as well. But I do think that someone who actually holds another nationality (or fails to renounce another one) has somehow gone one step further – if only symbolically – in terms of commitment to that foreign country. The other – and surely wider – category referred to by Fred are mere mercenaries in comparison. And making dual nationality a matter of compulsory public declaration and knowledge would surely send a salutary signal to the individuals involved.

    PS – come to think about it, why not make it a legal requirement that a politician or high civil servant should NOT have dual nationality? Nobody forces someone to enter politics or the civil service, after all.

  150. Habbakuk: Recently a Hungarian politician (admittedly a far-right one) called for Hungarian politicians who also had Israeli citizenship to be publically identified. Naturally, this caused considerable indignation in the usual quarters.

    Yes, it is quite natural when people get outraged by fascist parties such as Jobbik zeroing in on Jews or Gyspies in Hungary. Of course, for people like Jobbik, Jews and Gypsies are not “real” Hungarians.

  151. Thanks, Habbabkuk. I’m an admirer of your style too, usually.
    When you comment on the issue of the day, you are generally right on the mark, i.e. I agree with you :), awesome in your debating skills, and witty with it.
    I encourage you to stay positive and resist the temptation to be sidetracked into personality duels.

  152. @ Angrysoba : I take note of your comment, but fear that it’s an attempt to deflect the argument…..or even tar is with the brush of …anti-semitism :))

    Whether or not Jobbik is a “fascist” party (some would say it’s a nationalist party) and whether or not it considers Jews and Roms to be “real” Hungarians (it would argue that the jews and Roms have self-defined themselves as nationalities and so cannot complain if some see them as not being of Hungarian nationality), the suggestion made by the politician in question was that politicians should, in the interests of transparency, declare whether they had a second nationality or not.

    Needless to say this was immediately distorted into “all politicians had to declare whether they were Jewish”.

    Not quite the same thing.

    So to stay with the substance of my post, does Angrysoba think that my suggestion(please read it again carefully and do not distort it) has merit or not?

  153. I don’t think it matters where someone was born, it’s where their loyalties are that matters.

    I would have no problems with someone who emigrated to Britain serving in the government so long as they were serving British interests.

    Someone born and bred in Britain who has sworn loyalty to another country is a different matter.

  154. @Fred – quite agree (cf Professor Lindemann to take one example from the many). But in the case of an immigrant, let him then renounce his original nationality (where he doesn’t lose it automatically) as en earnest of his new loyalties. As to someone British by birth, well, the positive act of going out and formally acquiring a second citizenship would seem to demonstrate, ipso facto, that loyalties were at best …divided.

    To be noted that we’re only taking about (national)politicians and high officials in the service of the state; by reason of his status, we are not interested in the number of nationalities held by the man in the street, which is none of our business.

  155. * talking, not taking.

  156. From Medialens

    Is Oscar-nominated 5 Broken Cameras an Israeli or a Palestinian film?
    Posted by The Editors on January 14, 2013, 2:22 pm

    Jonathan Cook comments via his Facebook page on the story below:

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/oscar-nominated-5-broken-cameras-israeli-or-palestinian-film

    It is in itself quite extraordinary that Israelis are getting so excited about the possibility of winning the Oscar for best documentary this year after claiming as Israeli two of the five final nominations (more on that below). Both offer savage indictments of systematic malfeasance by Israel in the occupied territories. Gideon Levy notes the chutzpah here:

    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/chutzpah-for-the-course.premium-1.493568

    But equally outrageous is the fact that Israel is being allowed to take the credit for 5 Broken Cameras, a film shot exclusively by a Palestinian film-maker in his village in Palestine, as if it were a national product of Israel. We’ve been here before, with Israel selling felafel, humus and tabouleh to the US and Europe as Israeli dishes.

    The silver lining is that, if more people see 5 Broken Cameras as a result of thinking it is Israeli, it may reach the audiences who most need their prejudices being challenged. The downside is that that same audience may come away from the experience with the illusion reinforced that the making of such a documentary proves how democratic and tolerant Israel really is.

  157. Richard Armbach

    14 Jan, 2013 - 3:51 pm

    The downside is that that same audience may come away from the experience with the illusion reinforced that the making of such a documentary proves how democratic and tolerant Israel really is.

    Except for the 5 broken cameras

  158. doug scorgie

    14 Jan, 2013 - 4:22 pm

    Zona Norte, why did you choose the name of a Mexican brothel area in Tijuana known for not only adult but also child prostitution?

  159. Thanks to Richard Armbach for the link to his “Hoffman Chronicled” page. In which he notes that Ise Liebler (intelligent version of and friend of Hoffman) is mentored by Jonathan Pollard, editor of the JC (which may explain the JC’s increasing hysteria))
    For your entertainment, Richard, if no-one else’s:
    http://www.jewdas.org/2011/07/stephen-pollard-uncircumcised/

    (I hope there’s nothing antisemitic on that site or both Craig and I will be excommunicated)

  160. Sky News have just had a Dr Peter Neumann on justifying the ‘intervention’ in Mali. He also demonized the ‘islamists’ there. No mention that we are supporting a ragbag of their military who took their power in a coup d’etat.

    His CV. http://icsr.info/about-us-2/staff/peter-neumann-director/
    Enough said.

    This is an example of what happens under the existing regime.

    http://lubbockonline.com/filed-online/2012-09-10/16-muslim-preachers-moderate-sect-killed-mali-en-route-religious-conference

  161. @Richard Armbach, I see we share a sort of badge of honour re Harry’s Place; deeply ironic that they are do deluded that they like associating themselves with Orwell, and even more ludicrously ironic that they use his “”If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear”, as their Site’s logo. ( I wonder if Angry Soba is still a regular there, as he strikes me as the sort of person who could never be banned from there !?)

    Anyhow perhaps I should have used “honest” instead of “rational” when referring to the problem of debating with Habbakuk, but for me it’s the same thing, because when a person continuously chooses to misunderstand or bizarrely distorts, it’s either a deliberate derailing tactic, or the person is unbelievably stupid, and it’s obvious to me, & at least four other regular Posters here (see the tail-ends of The Disappearance of Craig Murray & the The 3.2 Million Euro Lardon threads), that Habbakuk is not as stupid as he would like to appear.

    I note that on this thread Habbakuk is on his best behaviour so far, however I fear this is another shill debating tactic, which will soon revert back to usual troll mode, but I do honestly hope that I’m proved wrong.

    (Oh, yes Fred did come across as a bit irrational to me also, when I tried to debate the nature of “Hate” with him recently; apart from that, he seems like a nice guy !)

  162. Richard Armbach

    14 Jan, 2013 - 5:48 pm

    Macky my experience here is recent and I note your greater experience of him. But we can only type as we see. Of course what we see can change o))

    And Fred is clearly on the sidw of the angels. I took his point.

    Harry’s Place is a racist cess pit coated with the flimsiest veneer of respectability.

  163. “(Oh, yes Fred did come across as a bit irrational to me also, when I tried to debate the nature of “Hate” with him recently; apart from that, he seems like a nice guy !)”

    So does it give you a feeling of superiority sitting there passing judgement on everyone?

    I’m starting to see why Habbakuk feels he has to tweak your tails now and again.

  164. A horrible example of the requirement for racial purity in Tel Aviv at New Year here.

    Shades of Kristallnacht?

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/disturbing-new-video-israeli-jews-assaulting-africans-tel-aviv-new-years-eve

  165. Richard Armbach

    14 Jan, 2013 - 6:37 pm

    @ komodo

    Ha Ha thanks. I visit Jewdas but missed that one. Those guys are a hoot. The funniest bit of that one was the editorial in which the first letter of each word spelt out ” I am sorry Desmond will you have me back. ” Though I guess folks would need to know a bit of Pollard history to get it.

    I think you will survive linking to Jewdas though several of them did get arrested a while back for a stunt they called ” The protocols of Hackney ”

    Here is one for you…inspired by Jewdas. I have dug it out from a lot of stuff we have hidden because we want to keep the site as clean as possible for the moment. Don’t want visitors to be distracted from the immediate task at hand if you get my drift.It will be visible til noon Tuesday.

    http://hoffmanchronicled.wordpress.com/honathan-joffmans-application-for-chief-rabbi/

  166. Richard Armbach

    14 Jan, 2013 - 6:41 pm

    By ” clean ” I mean uncluttered

  167. Sorry Fred, but I always tell it as I see it; anybody giving a view on anything is passing judgement; that your defensive reflex has caused you to seemingly defend trolling is troubling; I repeat my last unanswered Post to you on the Hate topic, in a the hope that you can reverse my increasing unease that I may have been a bit premature in describing you as only just a ”bit” irrational:

    (@Fred, I’ve just remembered our little discussion on Hate which I rudely abandon due to New Year travels, and had completely forgotten about to now !

    “Well logically the ones that hated the Nazis feared the Nazis therefore they are probably expecting a knock on the door from the black shirts”

    Sorry, but that’s a cop-out; I repeat the scenario: in view of the likelihood of a campaign of threats & bribes aimed at those sheltering Jews, would you feel safer sheltering with those who professed to disliking the Nazis, or with those who were obviously filled with loathing & hatred for the Nazis ? In other words, who would be most likely to turn you in ?

    “If they hate Nazis chances are they hate Jews as well.”

    Very bizarre comment ! I thought that the opposite would be true !)

  168. “Sorry Fred, but I always tell it as I see it; anybody giving a view on anything is passing judgement; that your defensive reflex has caused you to seemingly defend trolling is troubling; ”

    We are here to pass comment on Craig’s blog entries not each other.

    In my book passing judgement on other users IS trolling.

  169. Since you all are keen on video’s this one has scratched up over half a million hits in less than a week, a slight parody on a very popular issue.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Znpt_Umixcs

  170. @Fred, “In my book passing judgement on other users IS trolling”

    Really ?; is this a very rational view to hold iro a Public Blog where Posters naturally will interact with each others views ?!!

    On this very thread you posted “You get called a troll because you behave like a troll” (directed at Habbakuk), so would it be fair to call you hypocrite as well as a bit irrational ?

    Perhaps it would be better for you not to answer, as you only seem intent on self-incrimination !

  171. Macky

    That’s right, Habbakuk acts like a troll when he’s slagging off other users and so do you.

    Do you understand yet because I don’t see how I can make it any simpler for you?

  172. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    14 Jan, 2013 - 8:28 pm

    Hey, don’t we have enough atavistic proto-humans to vent our spleen on? The word ‘troll’ is a semantic pit with plenty of offal to stew in it’s own juices. I guess it means what we want it to mean. Anger is a killer when it remains bottled up, so release it on worthy grudges. :)

    But, don’t quote me on that.

  173. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    14 Jan, 2013 - 8:30 pm

    Komodo…..howzit hangin’?

  174. Ben, are you anti-semantic or something? Disgraceful!

  175. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    14 Jan, 2013 - 8:46 pm

    God forbid, glenn. Semantics is my life.

  176. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    14 Jan, 2013 - 8:47 pm

    pretty pathetic, eh? :)

  177. @Fred, I’m actually persevering with this because a) we seem to mostly agree on topics, b) I don’t think you are a troll, but perhaps somewhat “confused”; so I feel a brief recap is needed; we recently had a little debate about the nature of Hate, here are the last few of the exchanges;

    _________________________________________________________________________________________
    Macky: “I rather suspect that those who successfully fought against Apartheid in South Africa, were acting from more than just a feeling of dislike.”

    Fred: “No doubt they were but that doesn’t mean that the feelings extended to hatred”

    Macky: “Let’s examine your absolutist position on this further: Say you were a Jew in Germany during the Nazi period, and you needed to go into hiding by seeking shelter with one of your German neighbours; those on the left, you know don’t actually like the Nazis, but the one on the right, you know for a fact detest & passionately hate the Nazis: who would you choose to protect you the most if the Nazis started to threaten or entice people to turn hidden Jews over ?”

    Fred: “Well logically the ones that hated the Nazis feared the Nazis therefore they are probably expecting a knock on the door from the black shirts. The safest place would be with the neighbours who just didn’t like the Nazis, less likely they will get a knock on the door and if they aren’t scared of them they have no reason to give you away.
    Avoid people who hate, they are emotionally unstable, no telling what they will do. If they hate Nazis chances are they hate Jews as well.”

    Macky: “@Fred, I’ve just remembered our little discussion on Hate which I rudely abandon due to New Year travels, and had completely forgotten about to now !

    “Well logically the ones that hated the Nazis feared the Nazis therefore they are probably expecting a knock on the door from the black shirts”

    Sorry, but that’s a cop-out; I repeat the scenario: in view of the likelihood of a campaign of threats & bribes aimed at those sheltering Jews, would you feel safer sheltering with those who professed to disliking the Nazis, or with those who were obviously filled with loathing & hatred for the Nazis ? In other words, who would be most likely to turn you in ?

    “If they hate Nazis chances are they hate Jews as well.”

    Very bizarre comment ! I thought that the opposite would be true !”
    _________________________________________________________________________________________

    Now on the basis on your replies, I thought that your reasoning was a bit irrational, and rather evasive, especially as you never replied following my last post.

    Fast forward to this thread, and somebody (Richard Armbach) posting to me, makes an aside with a jokey “irrational” comment directed at you, & in replying to this person on the main point, I also add as an aside that on the strength on a recent debate between us, to me you also came across “as a bit irrational” but also added “he seems like a nice guy”. Your surprising reaction to this was to accuse me of acting “superior” & “passing judgement on everybody”, and suggesting that somebody that you have just previously judged as a troll (Habbakuk), was justified in his trolling !! And now you are equating me on par with Habbakuk and calling me a troll !

    Your over the top reaction reminds me of your “Avoid people who hate, they are emotionally unstable”, except that you seem to have proven that it’s irrational people that are emotionally unstable !

    I really don’t wish to take-up too much space on this thread discussing this, and although you may not think you are the slightest bit irrational, unstable or hypocritical, the record is here in black & white for anybody interested enough to examine it.

  178. “@Fred, I’m actually persevering with this because…”

    Suit yourself, persevere away.

  179. Anti-semantic or something?

    Glenn you really do have a way with words. That’s my laugh for the evening!

    I was feeling pretty grim after watching the video Mary linked earlier (Animals!)–thank you Mary.

    Still a bit sombre but was good to have a laugh.

  180. Macky, at the risk of, as someone said, “re-importing” old conversations, my recent experience with Fred is that he is very stubborn and when confronted with hard logic will be deflective. So don’t waste your time. Some of us like to close arguments and, ideally, reach agreement but for that to happen ego needs to be set aside. If even one out of twenty of us could actually do that, we could change human consciousness.

    And have heaven on earth rather than finding it in some afterlife as all organised religions would have us do.

    I wonder how useful blogs like this are that give us the illusion that we could collectively change something when the change has to come from within. It doesn’t cease to surprise me how much conflict gets created in this microcosm and so little agreement. But that seems the way of the world and the society WE have created.

  181. “Macky, at the risk of, as someone said, “re-importing” old conversations, my recent experience with Fred is that he is very stubborn and when confronted with hard logic will be deflective.”

    Well at least I don’t have to resort to slagging off other users.

    But if you lot don’t stop talking about me I’m going to start, ever seen a flame war? You wouldn’t last two minutes.

  182. Well, the muscular (let’s be kind to it) brand of Israeli nationalism is losing the argument, that much is obvious. You can’t argue with overwhelming firepower and hundreds of dead children. It’s kinda hard to put a counterveiling spin on that one. And so sympathy for Israel is melting like snow off a dyke, as they say in certain parts, even among its allies.

    The lesson that you don’t shit where you eat seems lost on them. Why can’t they see the pointlessness of what they’re doing? Why can’t they stop the manifest oppression, the control-freakery, and the destabilsing of other powers? Come to peace, for fuck sake, and stop snarling at your neighbours.

  183. La Zona Norte Respetable

    14 Jan, 2013 - 11:42 pm

    @Doug Scorgie – “Zona Norte, why did you choose the name of a Mexican brothel area in Tijuana known for not only adult but also child prostitution?”

    Anti-semitism is all anyone talks about here…..

    Actually, I am coming to you live from a well-off suburb north of Buenos Aires.

    Yours sincerely,

    The poster formerly known as “Zona Norte”

  184. ” But if you lot don’t stop talking about me I’m going to start, ever seen a flame war? You wouldn’t last two minutes.”

    Super-stylish. Was one right about the ego? Hit the e-spot?

    Well Field Marshal Fred, you didn’t really ‘listen’ to my complete comment, perhaps because you’re more used to speaking than listening, a finer, more sensitive art. My comment above makes it clear one doesn’t like conflict. Manage your ‘self’ as you will, its ‘your’ shoddy little affair.

  185. @Villager, yes the Ego & Religion seem to have a lot in common, the need to believe in being right, in knowing best, or that that my righteousness is not just self-righteousness but the ultimate pure righteousness etc… reminds me of the brief dialogue you had with Vronsky on the Church of Fear thread, in which to paraphrased what he said, that Religion gives people the confidence to go out and do what they have to do, secure in the belief that they are invulnerable. Vronsky’s “invulnerability” is presumably based on the apparent certainty of these people’s convictions in their particular religion/ belief/moral systems, and for me this is nothing more than delusional arrogance. I respect people’s right to hold religious/moral beliefs, only because I know that the most devote, are truly enlighten, and so when pressed enough will ultimately acknowledge that actually there is no certainty, devote Christians will speak of the Divine Mystery, for devote Muslims it’s expressed as the Will of Allah, both basically admitting that no human can ever know the mind of God, which I think is exactly what Socrates meant when he stated “I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance”, in other worlds it is beyond our human comprehension to understand the mystery of the Human Condition. Those who cannot accept this fact, and insist that they know the Truth,and/or they are right, are the ones to be most feared

  186. La Zona Norte Respetable

    14 Jan, 2013 - 11:58 pm

    @Mike:

    Israel is a spoiled, immature, and aggressive nation. Things got immensely worse after 9/11 when the United States fell lock, stock and barrel into the trap of believing that she and Israel shared the same enemies. Israel has learned that there are no real consequences for stealing anyone’s land or defying the UN. I suspect that at a political level, no one really likes Israel but there is so much residual guilt from WWII preventing Western leaders from speaking the truth about Israel’s appalling behaviour. Our leaders are great at bombing the hell out of defenseless nations like Serbia, Iraq and Afghanistan but are as meek as doormice when it comes to confronting Israeli collective punishment.

    So here we are, nearly 65 years after the creation of the state of Israel and as far away as ever from a just solution for the Palestinians. For me anyway, the creation of the state of Israel will go down in history as one of the biggest diplomatic blunders ever.

  187. You gotta laugh. Syria is off the menu, for the time being, so all of a sudden Mali is a “serious concern” for UK Ltd’s blue managers, while the French are already in there doing a Libya. Without US involvement, taking out Syria ain’t on the cards so the entente diabolique has turned to a medium-sized turkey-shoot meal bucket instead. It doesn’t matter who’s in charge -Blair/Sarkosy/Obama/Hollande/Cameron – the main course is the same.
    What is it good for? Absolutely nothing (except shareholder profit).
    “Why do I lie to myself?”
    Bring on the drones…

  188. Possibly La Zona. But it exists, and it isn’t going to go away. You can’t change the past, only the future. Hopefully, Israel will change.
    You gotta hope, right?
    Hope?

  189. La Zona Norte Respetable

    15 Jan, 2013 - 12:20 am

    @Mike

    I think we are beyond any kind of peaceful solution. I regret to say that I see a disastrous ending for Israel. Can you see the removal of 400,000 illegal settlers in the West Bank (and growing) without which there is no hope for any peace. The stupid United States is praying that Palestinians will one day just accept “the facts on the ground” but every indication is that the Palestinians and their allies are becoming more not less militant. Israel’s nuclear arsenal is an irrelevance because the so-called Samson option will result in the mother-of-all conflagrations. Even if Israel manages to annihilate several Arabs capitals it sure as hell won’t feel like victory, of that I am sure.

  190. I recommend Jonathan Cook’s latest article, dated 14 January, on http://www.counterpunch.org (“How 20 tents…”)

  191. La Zona Norte Respetable

    15 Jan, 2013 - 12:38 am

    @Habbabkuk:

    Good article.

    – Following the Israeli raid, that point was made eloquently by Mohammed Khatib, one of the organisers. “In establishing Bab al-Shams, we declare that we have had enough of demanding our rights from the occupier — from now on we shall seize them ourselves.” –

    Good on them!! These protesters are under no illusions about US so-called even-handedness which is the sickest joke of all. To hell with the rubbish “Peace Process”. Mass non-violent action such as this is the only thing the Palestinians have left but it may already be too late.

  192. Macky, i stand on the line between the Known and the Unknown.

    And now as i turn out my light perhaps a little visit to the latter. Who knows?

    More tomorrow. Wish you all a good rest.

  193. Villager: ” It doesn’t cease to surprise me how much conflict gets created in this microcosm and so little agreement.”

    I know, and it’s enough to make one despair. But at least site/blog this doesn’t solely consist of the mindless splat-stick/ slanging-match/ insult and idle threat trading that makes up the content of most online “debate” these days, a competition of attaining sides and putting down or frightening off adversaries. It’s not quite that bad here yet. In truth, it’s remarkably civil and reasonable (my best efforts aside).

    *

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