The Trident Test 310

The Rochester By-Election further destroys the intellectual case for the BBC’s decision that only male party leaders who support Trident can debate on TV before the UK general election.

The Greens got five times as many votes as the Lib Dems in Rochester, and are ahead of them in several recent national opinion polls. I do not posit the support of Trident as the criterion for inclusion, in any sense as a joke. Support of Trident stands as a good marker for adhesion to the neo-con establishment consensus. The establishment is simply not prepared for more radical views to be put before the public as a serious choice. UKIP is the chosen right wing vehicle into which disillusion with politicians should be channelled.

The BBC justification for including UKIP is that they have shown a “substantial increase in electoral support”, and the BBC argue that the Greens have not done so. There are two major problems with this argument.

The first is that UKIP’s “massive increase in electoral support” has been massively boosted by a huge amount of publicity given to UKIP for the last two years, especially by the BBC. The BBC is citing the effect of its own propaganda as justification for continuing that propaganda. If the Greens had been given as much publicity as UKIP, the electoral climate would be very different.

The second is that this appears to be a one way argument. If UKIP’s massive increase in electoral support can get them included, surely the Lib Dems total collapse in electoral support should get them excluded? The injustice of including the Lib Dems and not the Greens, when the Greens are beating them not just in opinion polls but in real polls, cannot simply be brushed aside.

We then have the SNP. There is a very real possibility that the SNP will have more MPs than the Lib Dems after the next election. Indeed, one recent opinion poll put them ahead of the Lib Dems in polling across the entire UK, even though all those SNP voters were just in Scotland. For the BBC to push so hard the line that we are “Better Together”, and then exclude the party supported by the plurality of Scots from UK debate, is an irony only the BBC cannot see. That some viewers of a UK debate would have no opportunity to vote SNP, would not remove their very real interest in understanding and questioning the views of what will be a major component of the parliament which governs them.

The Greens, Plaid Cymru and the SNP have female leaders and are anti-Trident, a symbol of their broad radicalism. All are, to use that crude measure, to the left of the parties which will be included. To be in, you have to be led by an identikit posh male and support Trident. That is the BBC test.

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310 thoughts on “The Trident Test

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  • Sofia

    The BBC has a lot to answer for in it’s relentless and usually subtle campaigns to misinform and persuade enough people to believe in phoney narratives to allow the elites to continue their wars and looting unchallenged.

    Forgive me for repeating Voltaire, but the man hit the nail on the head with, “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”

    IMO it’s his relentless challenging of some of the absurdities that makes John Goss a regular target for those who wish to close down debate here.

    The moment I checked his offending link my heart sank for him becvause I knew that he, rather than his ideas, would be the subject of distracting denunciations and accusations.

    Newcomers here can just check back on any of John’s posts over the last couple of years to see for themselves whether his his posting of a clearly hate-filled website was more likely a cock-up (his explanation) or an indicator of secret inner hatefulness (RD’s take).

    Re linking I’ll leave the last word to Macky, “I agree with Lysias, and with what Craig once implored people to do, which is of course to engage with the point of issue at hand, to address the argument rather than just attack the person, or by extension, the hosting site; the validity of the argument/pov stands on its own, it makes no difference if the hosting Site is the Vatican, Davis Icke type CT Site, a Race Hate Site, or even a Porn Site, but obviously for Sites that will also contain material that may offend, either the pov extract or whole article is copied over, or an appropriate warning is given alongside the link.”

  • Resident Dissident


    “Forgive me for repeating Voltaire, but the man hit the nail on the head with, “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.””

    Too true – perhaps she should consider the following from Mr Goss a couple of hours after his original; drunken outburst

    ” but also the thousands of conscripts (mostly military) killed in this senseless war that Putin does not support, but Obama, does”

    And then explain the absurdity of how Putin’s non support leads to Russian military hardware, troops and little green men being deployed in Eastern Ukraine.

    Sofia might also note that I still await Mr Goss’s apology to myself for the original slur before indulging in her mind reading games.

  • Sofia

    Ruprecht D.

    I think I see. Correct me if I’m wrong. It’s like this. Vlad the Bad made little green men do it!

    Maybe you could provide some evidence. Photos would be good. I’m sure if Poroshenko caught any he won’t have missed a chance to parade them on front of the cameras.

    Those little green men abducted me once and no one believed me.

    Let me apologise if I appeared to be playing mind games with you. I know I would be quite out of my league for such a task.

    Is this leaked video reaelly Dad and you?

  • Resident Dissident


    Google “Russian troops in the Ukraine proof”

    “I’m sure if Poroshenko caught any he won’t have missed a chance to parade them on front of the cameras. ”

    Which of course he did – see the ft report when you Google

    And then ask yourself where the SAM missiles and other hardware used by the rebels came from – and then look at the reports of Russian soldiers being buried in Russia after they were killed in the Ukraine.

    And then remember how Putin reversed line on the presence of his little green men in the Crimea after the Anschluss was completed.

    And then finally remember how Saker told you to lie about the presence of Russian troops and agents in the Ukraine.

  • Sofia


    Let me explain. By photographic evidence of the Russian army I mean a more convincing kind of show like in Afghanistan ( Soviet and then US/UK), or Iraq (US/UK).

    What do the images of the Russian invasion of Ukraine look like? How do you think they are hiding the inevitable destruction one would expect to accompany an invasion?

    Of course young russian men, some of them soldiers, are being buried in Russia. How surprising is that? What is your opinion about the young men and women from the EU, some of them ex-military, who are fighting and dying to defend the wishes of the people of the Donbas, expressed in a referendum, for self determination, from a violently installed illegal junta in Kiev? Whether Russian, French or Italian, are they not simply doing what some of their grandfathers did when they put their lives on the line to resist fascism Spain or later when they fought with the Maquis and other resistance movements across Nazi-occupied Europe?

    Kindly link to some evidence of the kind of heavy artillery bombardment that OSCE has said the Ukrainian Army is doing in Donetsk or some credible images of RF combat troops. Where are the photos?

    Re your remark about the Saker telling me to lie. WTF? Can you elaborate? Links?

    Finally can you comment on last week’s session at the UN when the US, Canada and Ukraine voted against this resolution and a number of states, including all members of the European Union, abstained.

    “Combatting glorification of Nazism, neo-nazism and other practices that fuel contemporary forms of racism discrimination , xenophobia and related intolerance

    Is it because the neo-nazis are useful to install US/EU approved “democracy” in Ukraine after violently toppling the democratic government and then declaring war on those citizens who don’t do see why they should recognise such an government? And look how well that’s going!

    Awaiting your response. Thanks.

  • Mary

    Lethal junk.

    24 November 2014

    Two submarines to stay in Plymouth – two go to Faslane
    HMS Torbay HMS Torbay will stay in Devonport until it is decommissioned

    Living next to a nuclear graveyard
    Nuclear submarine visits Portland
    Submarine returns after 11 months

    Two submarines earmarked for decommissioning will remain in Plymouth while two others will move to Faslane, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has said.

    HMS Torbay and HMS Trenchant, are to remain at the naval base at Devonport until they are decommissioned.

    HMS Talent and HMS Triumph will move to Her Majesty’s Naval Base (HMNB) Clyde at Faslane, by 2020.

    The MoD said this was another step towards HMNB Clyde becoming home to all of the UK’s submarines.


  • YouKnowMyName

    Why do we need Trident? To protect our citizens from existential threats, I suppose.
    It might help to avoid future wars, by deterring aggressors.
    Who was Trident targeted at in the last decade?
    Dunno, there seemingly was no target!
    Who is it targeted at now, thankfully (.mil POV) there’s a big bad bear!
    How can Trident help the UK survive? In a strategy of “détente”
    What is a strategy of détente?, well, personally I guess it is the exact opposite of everything copied & pasted below!

    New Jersey source:

    members of Joseph Biden’s delegation have been given the documents with the mark “for the Congress, final”. After reading of this document it’s getting clear that the junta is not going to comply with the Minsk agreements and observe the truce. They are ready to kill again!400 sniper-rifles, 2000 assault-rifles, 720 hand-held grenade launchers, 200 mortars with more than 70 000 mines, 150 stingers, 420 antitank missiles and so on [50mW tactical laser sights & many hundreds of Harris encrypted combat radios]. That’s the plan of a peaceful settlement of the conflict in the South-East by Petro Poroshenko

    US company Harris have taken their radio page offline, but there’s a memory of it here on the ‘web nice kit!

    Also the shopping list from the UA military includes 150 complete sub-acqua systems, is this a special forces on holiday in the Black Sea ‘training’ exercise?

    lets find the documents, only available this morning in around 7 places!

    good quality document images hosted here in RUSSIA e.g. images here

    and hosted here in Vietnam

    and hosted here in Montenegro

    It could always be a Putin disinformation exercise? from what I’ve learned about the Russians, even tho’ the initial spread of these documents is quite suspicious, obviously ’seeded’ for “churnalism” they’re fairly likely to be substantially true; I mean in order to bring peace/TTIP in Ukraine/Europe for the Christmas season – one thing we really need deploying in the European continent at the moment is seventy thousand antipersonnel mines? or I am I wrong

  • YouKnowMyName

    I’ll follow the ‘weapons story’ for a while, as it’s below the main media news radar,
    yesterday I wrote lets find the documents, only available this morning in around 7 places!

    good quality document images hosted here in RUSSIA e.g. images here
    and hosted here in Vietnam
    and hosted here in Montenegro
    It could always be a Putin disinformation exercise?

    and today, choosing the same Sputniknews ‘radar’ document
    let’s see where it lives:
    still infonet.vietnam
    still in Montenegro
    still (Russian Facebook)

    a few new sites ‘added’ which is called by which is called by which is called by which is called by which is called by

    but that’s not many locations, still just a handful. I don’t recommend clicking the links unless you have a sandboxed sacrificial VM container for malware, some of them could do polymorphic profiling/file dropping, I’m certainly not clicking the links just finding them!</em?

    So at present, and I welcome advice from any other news junkies, it certainly looks like a seeded/nudged 'public information' story, but still very low key. If it's supposed to go viral then it probably needs a picture of a near-naked Armenian living near LA…

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