The Omniscient State

by craig on June 10, 2013 9:10 am in Uncategorized

It is not whether the individual had done anything wrong: it is whether the state has done anything wrong. Hague’s plea for the omniscient state is chilling: if you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. So it is alright for the state to eavesdrop all our social interactions, to follow our every move? Is there to be no privacy from the prying eye of the state, which can watch me on the toilet, and if I have done nothing wrong I have nothing to hide?

The terribly sad thing is that, by a media campaign which has raised public fear of terrorism beyond any rational analysis of the risk (depending which year you take as the base line, you have between 40 and 300 times more risk of drowning in your own bath than being killed by a terrorist) there is great public acceptance of the intrusive state. This of course depends on the notion that the state is not only omniscient but benevolent. I do urge anyone infected by this way of thinking to read Murder in Samarkand for a practical demonstration of just how malevolent, indeed evil, the state can be.

GCHQ and NSA share all intelligence reports, as do the CIA and MI6, under US/UK intelligence sharing agreements first put in place by Roosevelt and Churchill. That is one of the most widely known of all official secrets – there are probably fifty thousand current or retired civil servants like me who know that, and many academics, journalists etc – but even in the light of the Snowden revelations, you probably won’t see it much in print, and you won’t hear it in Parliament, because it is still a criminal offence to say it. Let me say it again:

GCHQ and NSA share all intelligence, as do the CIA and MI6, under US/UK intelligence sharing agreements first put in place by Roosevelt and Churchill. NSA and GCHQ do the large bulk of communication interception. Now both NSA and GCHQ are banned from spying on their own citizens without some motive of suspicion – though as Edward Snowden has been explaining, that motive of suspicion can be terribly slight, like you have someone as a facebook friend who has a facebook friend whose sister once knew someone connected with an animal liberation group. But in any event, the safeguards are meaningless as NSA and GCHQ can intercept communications of each other’s citizens and they share all information. I have been explaining this in public talks these last ten years – I am happy it is finally hitting the headlines.

We need Edward Snowden and we need Bradley Manning. I had hoped that the barefaced lies of Bush and Blair, leading to a war that killed hundreds of thousands, would make people see that politicians, and the corporate interests that stand so close behind them, simply cannot be trusted.

The world needs whistleblowers. Now more than ever.

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164 Comments

  1. Very good post. The violation of civil liberties is shameful. It seems that the parameters of what is acceptable to say are shrinking all the time, and as has been mentioned before, the choice at elections very nominal.

  2. True enough. But isn’t it embarrassing that Hague wheels out the old “Nothing wrong, nothing to fear” chestnut that has been – and is so easily – discredited? He might at least attempt to present an actual argument in favour.

    “Give me six lines written by the most honest man in the world, and I will find enough in them to hang him” attributed to Cardinal Richelieu

  3. Ah, they can’t spy on their own citizens, so they spy on each other’s and then exchange reports under the agreement. How clever! :)

    Seriously, we are talking about Western democracies, not Uzbekistan. Citizens are free to set up parties like Put An Honest Leftie into Parliament, get elected (if they can) and then change official policy.

  4. If Hague is so blasé about privacy I look forward to him publishing all the UK Government’s secrets. After all, they can’t have done anything wrong, right?

    The Cabinet papers relating to devolution in the 1990s would be a good place to start.

  5. Sick bags at the ready – for those who missed it, here’s the Winston Churchill de nos jours and world statesyorkie in full bluster.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2013/jun/09/data-snooping-law-abiding-citizens-nothing-fear-hague-video

  6. “Hague claims all intelligence gathering done by the UK is governed by a stong legal framework.”

    As in, “if it comes to trial, the defendant is routinely not allowed to know what the evidence (if any) is against him.”

  7. @Abe Rene

    “Seriously, we are talking about Western democracies, not Uzbekistan. Citizens are free to set up parties like Put An Honest Leftie into Parliament, get elected (if they can) and then change official policy”.

    Seriously?

    Do you really believe that MPs have any control at all over ‘national security’ matters?

  8. It’s a terrible irony that the internet which is such a wonderful development may turn out to be the means of our own ultimate ensnarement. It gives the spooks undreamed of possibilities for control and it seems we are being slowly bound round and round with digital spider silk. If you complain about the spider you are mocked as a conspiracy theorist. I suspect the reason for the public’s acceptance that you allude to is one of choice. They choose not too look, to reassure themselves that everything is still all right, because to contemplate the alternative is too disturbing.

  9. If staff in these offices are not shuffled regularly, this cockiness of officers/civil servants employed by the state to such agencies can result in clique’s forming along political/military industrial/intelligence lines, working against what is considered private.

    If we have created states which now want to disallow doubt, want to proceed on this one sided economic wrecking increasingly fleecing the taxpayers wherever possible, and proceed to manipulate and girate around an electoral system just to produce establishment friendly regimes, then we now have to find ways of ending this theatre macabre.

    Do not ask me how, I might be tempted to answer.

  10. Craig, you’ve hit on the touchstone of UK policy — the US-UK tie-up. We — meaning the UK govt.– will do anything up to and including squandering British lives in terror-exacerbating illegal wars, to keep in with the Yanks. So how about a UK Independence Party which declares us free of Yankee subservience?

    Oh I see we’ve already got a UKIP and all they want is out of cuddly Europe, and carry on brown-nosing the Yanks!!

  11. Media eavesdropping on UK citizens => Courts + Leveson
    Media eavesdropping on MP’s (done nothing wrong, nothing to worry) => Blackmail
    Government eavesdropping on UK citizens => Fuck all

  12. Well written Craig, is this an issue that will blow over fast?
    I expect Clark would say ‘I told you to get encryption’
    Had my enigmail installed some time ago, but only the coffee mornings get encrypted, all important material is only diverted in conversation.

    My advice is, talk less electronically, even letters are safer and modern adhesives make for a comprehensive barrier to a letter opener.

    My other advice is, pick a festival and organise there, it used to happen at the Big Green Gathering, now a shadow of its former self, after being harassed into shut down by the last Labour administration.

    Talk to people face to face, or encrypt, in most cases its much better because you can see responses and body signs, even if that person is not responding in words.

    I have encryption so have others here, lets use it more and enable others to try installing it. I’m running it on Linux installed by Clark, works well.

  13. But by now most sane people should be aware that the internet is not a really a secure medium and you should not be putting anything in an email or blogg or Facebook page that you’d be embarrassed for anyone else to know. I have my doubts even if you encrypt the messages.

    It is astounding what people will reveal about themselves on a public forum that they wouldn’t tell their next door neighbours. Following the litigation brought against public figures, who really should know better, it shows that this technology is more dangerous than it seems and should carry a health warning. If you use Facebook or Twitter unwisely, you only have yourself to blame if there are unexpected consequences.

  14. @Indigo “Do you really believe that MPs have any control at all over ‘national security’ matters?”

    I can think of a number of possible ways: being on commons select committees, being on party policy committees, and being cabinet ministers.

  15. Still on the subject of state snooping, I wonder why Edward Snowden didn’t take connecting flights all the way to Rejkjavik and then ask for asylum, instead of flying into Hong Kong, given both its past cooperation with US authorities in law enforcement (see some past episodes of Hawaii Five-O for fictional illustrations), and now being under the ultimate authority of Red China?

  16. ….and now being under the ultimate authority of Red China?

    You mean that place with the monolithic surveillance apparatus and a press which flatters the rich guys?

    Oh, that>/i> place with the monolithic surveillance apparatus and a press which flatters the rich guys. I get it now.

  17. See what I did there? Again:
    Oh, that place with the monolithic surveillance apparatus and a press which flatters the rich guys. I get it now.

  18. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
    Hash: SHA1

    Conallboyle: “So how about a UK Independence Party which declares us free of Yankee subservience?”

    Yes, I’ve thought that’s strange for a while. Why are UKIP so anti-Europe but never say anything about the US?
    —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
    Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)

    iEYEARECAAYFAlG1qbEACgkQ5EfOQv4V189atACdEikKn7AIkFQtz/dHR4qgaJ8G
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  19. @Komodo “See what I did there?”
    Well, there’s a number of possibilities. Uzbekistan, wealthy Arab states, Russia (for tycoons who support Putin)…

  20. I’d never heard of this book, by a longtime favourite author – The Servile State, by Hilaire Belloc. He predates Orwell.

    Here ’tis:

    http://archive.org/stream/servilestate00belluoft#page/2/mode/2up

  21. @abe rene

    @Indigo “Do you really believe that MPs have any control at all over ‘national security’ matters?”

    “I can think of a number of possible ways: being on commons select committees, being on party policy committees, and being cabinet ministers”.

    Well, I have no confidence in any of these, I’m sorry to say, although I think even the MPs or cabinet ministers concerned may be as naive as their electors.

    The first has become window dressing for a gullible public … as for the others … any real influence on decisions/policy in such matters is largely illusory.

    It’s called a democratic deficit.

  22. I was referring to the typo, Abe. Obviously he could go anywhere he liked. He could even stay in his own country – a place with a monolithic surveillance apparatus and a press which flatters the rich guys.
    See what I did there?

  23. Of course. Snowden might not be in HK at all! (Lightly slaps his forehead). Where he might be is anyone’s guess. South America, maybe.

  24. @Abe Good point, the guy is obviously not daft and maybe he’s led them on a false trail, false passports travel tickets, he could be anywhere and it sounds like he’s been planning this for a long time, however I doubt that his efforts in the long term will stop the spooks long term plans for global domination of the electronic ether.

  25. The facts have always pointed to the oppressive, regressive state surveillance apparatus, that is running a deep state separate and different from the dog and pony kabuki set in place for the benefit of the hamburger munchers.

    Peter Wright in “spy catcher” without any shame or sense of irony recants his trolling through the Rote Kapelle (Red Orchestra) files captured from the infamous German SS secret police. The fact that Wright’s outlook was similar to the SS Secret Police somehow is lost in the excitement of his hunt for the “communist menace”.

    Those engaged in the circle jerk of “democracy”, “freedom”, “ballots” are in fact kidding themselves and shutting their eyes to an all intrusive state that has lost its tenuous grip on reality and is steaming ahead to compensate for the current crisis of bankruptcy of: ideas, thought, financial tenets, and moral principles.

  26. willyrobinson

    10 Jun, 2013 - 12:12 pm

    I was quite surprised to read Snowden distancing himself from Bradley Manning, claiming that at least he had read all that he disclosed, and verified that noone would be harmed.

    It seemed a bit mean. Manning is on trial and likely to be treated even more harshly now.

  27. This is old news, and something I protested to my MP at the time about prior to the passing of RIPA in 2000. It provides the legal framework that Hague is using. For example the justification around getting communications data (that’s the fact that a communication has taken place including timings and other metadata) are:

    “In the interests of national security, for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime or of preventing disorder, in the interests of the economic well-being of the United Kingdom, in the interests of public safety, for the purpose of protecting public health, for the purpose of assessing or collecting any tax, duty, levy or other imposition, contribution or charge payable to a government department and for the purpose, in an emergency, of preventing death or injury or any damage to a person’s physical or mental health, or of mitigating any injury or damage to a person’s physical or mental health.”

    Authorisation is provided by a senior member of the organisation making the request. In practice this data will be collected continually with the authorisation being requested in order to search it for specific individuals.

    The response from my MP (Marsha Singh) when I protested against the act were along the lines of Hague.,”If you’ve done nothing wrong then you’ve nothing to worry about.”.

    What has changed between then and now? The technology has caught up with the intentions. Expect more defence of the position from all sides of the house, the opposition can hardly object as they brought powers in. Also look for positive leaks, about how the data has been used to thwart terrorist groups or paedophile rings. Just think of the children!

  28. Neatly summarising Catch-22:

    All this crap is done in our name, as if it were for us, as if we agreed to it and want it and authorize it. But we never did and never can because we can’t see it or know it.

    (thatvisionthing on June 10, 2013 at 1:02 am, on
    http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/06/09/are-guardians-sources-responding-to-a-new-use-of-surveillance-post-boston/#comment-561759

  29. Talk about omniscient state.

    Now I cannot post my complaints about it because I allegedly get the CAPTCHA value wrong.

  30. The Guardian live coverage is making me laugh. Example quotes:

    “Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, one of the authors of the original USA PATRIOT Act, calls the newly exposed NSA program to harvest Americans’ phone records an “abuse” of the law.”

    Alss, in relation to Clapper’s blatant perjury:

    “Feinstein responds that James Clapper is a model of honesty and says perhaps the question –or the answer– has been misunderstood.”

    And McCain has been wheeled out to talk about ‘overreach’ in the Patriot act.

    It’s all a sham. Senselessbrenner and McCain were warned that the Patriot act was likely to result in exactly what we’ve got. They were warned by numerous people, repeatedly – including Greenwald. So either they didn’t know, which makes them idiots, or they did know, which makes them liars. And Feinstein’s reply was just a joke. A more straight-forward example of lying to Congress you’ll be hard-pressed to find, and her defense is embarassing. I’ve no doubt, though, that everyone has had their marching orders, including the risible fake known as Obama.

    As to Hague, well I think we all know about Hague. He’s lying. His other, ah, issues are his own, but his routine dishonesty is our problem. How this failed leader became Forn Sec is beyond me, unless it’s related to these, uhm, other issues about which we may only speculate.

  31. “This is old news, and something I protested to my MP at the time about prior to the passing of RIPA in 2000. It provides the legal framework that Hague is using. For example the justification around getting communications data (that’s the fact that a communication has taken place including timings and other metadata) are:”

    This is what I don’t understand, why anyone is surprised, I thought it had been common knowledge for over a decade.

    I remember when they first started putting the black boxes in at the ISPs we all used to put as many key words in our posts as we could to overload the system.

  32. Booz Allen works for Satan, of course, but paradoxically, the firm may be more than ordinarily vulnerable to the worm of conscience. Booz Allen doesn’t do a lot of McKinsey-style indoctrination (we’re the best, we’re the best, Are you good enough? Are you good enough?) It’s too big and protean to hold together as a a cult. The firm has traditionally allowed corporate culture to be imposed at the practice level, resulting in considerable diversity among a lot of petty satraps. Most are totalitarian, of course, especially in military bailywicks. But some fail to circumscribe thought. And their top echelon still includes some deep thinkers – tormented, of course, but not yet entirely insane. There are more and bigger Snowdens in their pipeline.

  33. It is perhaps one of the most pernicious and insidious deviations from the natural order, requirement and purpose of the British Government to harvest, catalogue and disseminate to any damn fool who happens to have security clearance of all information that is either deemed necessary or just mildly interesting.

    I guess we all own some complicity in that we use the media as our own separate tools, that we express opinions in a digital age that can give rise to a fuller pictrure of an individual’s traits, ideas and pecadillos than would ever have been the case 20 years ago or something – that we invite and declare our positions in clear, unedited formats for all the world to see – that we trust google, vodafone or some other such piece of shit as to our innermost thoughts. However, if they want it – then they should frikkin well legislate for it.

    What next? Just allow governments to traduce all liberty, to render, to incarcerate, to intern, to own the bloody individual as a commodity, an ingredient or factor in a nebulous process of deterministic benevolent prevention. Well, if Billy wants to act like every other little authoritarian twat thne bully for him. If Cameron wants to adorn the vestiges of totalitarian bureucrat then super, smashing, great.

    Meet the new boss – same as the old boss. Screw ‘em, and screw ‘em hard.

    Cheers Craig, as always.

  34. When I attempt to post a detailed account of my complaints about the misuse of data mined from me, it is somehow deleted in the process, showing that NSA, FRA, and GCHQ are reading my mind as it works.

    Pretty soon I shall be hearing words, telling me to do something criminal?

  35. It’s sad that the concept of ‘Big Brother’ is widely known and has been for some time, yet knowledge of it has achieved absolutely nothing. Therefore I can see any usefulness of an awareness campaign. I think the unpalatable truth is that its time for civil disobedience. That is likely to meet a predicted wall of denial based resistance too. Civil disobedience? – Good heavens man, were British. We are great at talking, but crap at acting.

    I urge a tax revolt. There is no more effective time.

    “I do urge anyone infected by this way of thinking to read Murder in Samarkand for a practical demonstration of just how malevolent, indeed evil, the state can be.” – Again, I expect to hear the throng: Steady on old boy, that’s just not cricket.

    (forgive the English-isms)

  36. Fear not… for these slimeballs will be voted in again at the next election.

  37. Craig, do you have a view as to whether the explicit denials from Facebook, Microsoft and Google are barefaced lies, or that the security services have managed to get into large server farms without large corporations knowing about it?

  38. You gotta admire Snowden’s taste and prep tho,
    I mean. HK as opposed to pokey little London flat…
    Julian, ya slapper!

  39. Pretty soon I shall be hearing words, telling me to do something criminal?

    That technology is far too old now. It was all the vogue in seventies, and eighties. What do they have in their arsenal, now?

    Well they cant tell us that because it is a secret and if they do they will have to kill us all.

  40. Flaming June

    10 Jun, 2013 - 1:34 pm

    Snowden’s biography according to the BBC
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22837100

    They are already on the case for his extradition to the US! Charged, convicted and found guilty in other words.

    They have consulted a Hong Kong barrister called Grossman and another person called Regina Ip, a legislator and Hong Kong’s former Secretary for Security.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-22837599

  41. If Snowden is in South America (I was thinking of the bloke who fled into the Ecuadorean embassy), he would best avoid the jungle. From what I’ve read, no-one and nothing messes with either warrior ants or piranha. American jailers would be benevolent by comparison.

  42. explicit denials from Facebook, Microsoft and Google are barefaced lies

    There are other age old questions too;

    Is Pope a catholic?
    Do the bears shit in the woods?
    …..

    the security services have managed to get into large server farms without large corporations knowing about it?

    Who these guys work for?

    The history of SIS is intertwined with the rich, OSS, and the rest of the organisations following thereafter have all been manned and directed by the “philanthropic” rich.

    Peter Wright keept regular contacts with certain ultra rich individual (cannot name for the fear of tropes) and through him he was introduced to another bunch of rich bastards who were off their fucking rockers and intent on instigating a coup and setting up Mountbatten of Burma as the prime minister. Although Wright at the same time was also in discussions with the same rich patron about gaining employment as the head of security for an outfit the rich chap owned.

    Where do spies go to after they retire? There are those who drown in their pools! Then there are others who serve their masters by safeguarding their interest even more closer by working for them directly.

    Anyone remember Howard Hughes?

  43. KoWN-It’s a terrible irony that the internet which is such a wonderful development may turn out to be the means of our own ultimate ensnarement. It gives the spooks undreamed of possibilities for control and it seems we are being slowly bound round and round with digital spider silk. If you complain about the spider you are mocked as a conspiracy theorist. I suspect the reason for the public’s acceptance that you allude to is one of choice. They choose not too look, to reassure themselves that everything is still all right, because to contemplate the alternative is too disturbing.

    Good points, but, completely nullified by humanity’s primal desire for the latest flashing box on which to ramble endlessly to anyone who cares to listen, take photographs of where it’s been and locate it with pinpoint precision for the benefit of its paranoid and self-appointed keepers. We deplore the chaining of prisoners, but we eagerly reach for the fetters themselves.

  44. People are moved to act when:
    – either it is within their power to effect change,
    – or, they believe they have no alternative,
    – (or both).
    The priority is always breeding (sorry family). We re a life-form, of sorts .

    Political apathy in the UK is the result of a simple sum – a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Things will have to get a lot worse before the majority take their eyes off the entertainment media. The owners know it.

  45. Surely the UK is already America’s 51st state. And I find that incredibly depressing.

  46. Passerby, you overlooked what happened to Anna Lindh, and underestimated Wright, the KGB’s leading spy.

  47. McGee continued,
    “I am outraged that our government is attempting to censor the information from our military that every citizen in this country is potentially being targeted by our government in a massive overreach of their constitutional powers by unconstitutional surveillance of all Americans and storage of that data.”

    ‘Military told not to read Obama-scandal news’

    http://www.wnd.com/2013/06/military-told-not-to-read-obama-scandal-news/

  48. You’ll find google has been buying up the most common CAPTCHA providers ‘recaptcha.com’ is the most common ‘apture.com’ is another, few exist now which aren’t google owned and hosted, competition are driven out or shut down; they are finding their way onto sites with no conceivable need or reason to implement a captcha, to block use of the sites core functionality, and without allowing these inexplicable further connections to google a wide range of sites have become unusable. Google is the most insidious infiltrator of privacy, you cannot keep them out, it is like playing whack-a-mole.

    Encryption alone is only a part of the solution as metadata isn’t part of the payload and is the same and taken/stored whether packet payloads/content are encrypted or not.

    This has set back, rolled back every gain in civil and personal rights made in the last half-century, everything from freedom of expression to gay rights all suffer. The great potentiality of the internet to connect people with people and with services, to facilitate online communties or e-commerce has been stifled and snuffed out.

  49. Do you believe the ‘war on terrorism’ is hyped up to take away the freedoms of citizens and distract citizens from economic problems?

    What do Scots really think of these issues?

    Answer here: http://bit.ly/10PBjbi

  50. sorry… Therefore I can notsee any.. [lwtc247, 10 Jun, 2013 – 1:07 pm]

  51. The really important point now is where has Edward Snowden gone.

    Sounds to me like some enemy state, given his saying he won’t be going home, and Peter King calling it a defection.

    Don’t recall Philby, Mclain, Burgess and Blake ever went home either.

    Would really be funny if he showed up in Russia, cavorting around, say, with Anna Chapman.

    Would be the first good news that Gareth Williams has heard since his horrible murder.

  52. Article from the Gruniad in 2010 when the content of the agreement was published for the first time.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/25/intelligence-deal-uk-us-released

    None of this should’ve come as a shock, even if you didn’t know about it it was something any intelligent person could’ve worked out for themselves. I mean what do you think these guys (and girls) do all day? Play Snap?

  53. “Craig, do you have a view as to whether the explicit denials from Facebook, Microsoft and Google are barefaced lies, or that the security services have managed to get into large server farms without large corporations knowing about it?”

    They probably don’t have much choice about denying it, for them to confirm it would be illegal.

  54. Glenn Greenwald tweets

    “Courage is contagious.”

    I sure hope so. And I hope poor Bradley Manning’s heart has been lifted by Snowden.

  55. Hardly think that Snowden’s alleged defection could do Manning any good.

    Would make it seem that his conduct has helped produce real spies aka feeding America’s paranoia.

  56. Where does the “alleged defection” arise?

  57. Flaming June

    10 Jun, 2013 - 3:47 pm

    Annie Machon was on Sky’s Boulton. She had praise for Snowden.

    Douglas Murray, shill for the NWO, was in the studio. In his usual rather petulant style he said Snowden should be arrested and tried (for treason I assume he meant).

    ~~~

    HMG has refused to confirm or deny that GCHQ has access to US spy programme. Hague’s statement is awaited very shortly. Agent Cameron says that the security services operate within the law and with proper scrutiny. Of course they do Dave.

  58. “Whats the big deal? – these guys need ability and secrecy to protect us.”

    “And the months ahead (*?), the years ahead it’s only going to get worse until eventually there will be a time where policies will change because the only thing that restricts the activities of the surveillance state are policy. Even our agreements with other sovereign governments, we consider that to be a stipulation of policy rather then a stipulation of law. And because of that a new leader will be elected, they’ll find the switch, say that ‘Because of the crisis, because of the dangers we face in the world, some new and unpredicted threat, we need more authority, we need more power.’ And there will be nothing the people can do at that point to oppose it. And it will be turnkey tyranny.”

  59. @Innes (2:28pm) Whilst I might find have found something with which I might agree, on the site which you linked to, that was a pretty spammy comment, as are others from you on other threads here on this site. I can’t help noticing too that it (the site) demonstrates the very google-isation of web content which is part of the alarming phenomenon being discussed here.

  60. “You gotta admire Snowden’s taste and prep tho,
    I mean. HK as opposed to pokey little London flat…
    Julian, ya slapper!”

    Maybe the fact that the likes of Snowden earn^W are paid $200,000 a year whereas Assange seems to have relied on handouts has something to do with that.

    I, for one, am greatly relieved that our All-Seeing Overlords are generously remunerated for their noble sacrifice, selling their soul to keep the state safe from us, its enemy.

  61. Another CAPTCHA post block.

    Peter King called it a defection.

    And no second thoughts about Snowden who would be killing for the Special Forces if he had not broken both of his legs while overdoing training before 9/11?.

  62. Flaming June

    10 Jun, 2013 - 4:14 pm

    Edward Snowden: saving us from the United Stasi of America

    Snowden’s whistleblowing gives us a chance to roll back what is tantamount to an ‘executive coup’ against the US constitution

    Daniel Ellsberg

    guardian.co.uk, Monday 10 June 2013 11.30 BST

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/edward-snowden-united-stasi-america

  63. This from The Guardian:

    @2013-06-10 09:40:04 UTC

    But he indicated that GCHQ might have also fallen foul of the law if it accepted information from the NSA on British citizens. “One of the big questions that is being asked is if British intelligence agencies want to seek to know the content of emails can they get round the normal law in the UK by simply asking an American agency to provide that information?” he said.

    @2013-06-10 13:40:38 UTC (about 4 hours later)

    But he indicated that GCHQ might have also fallen foul of the law if it requested information from the NSA on British citizens. “One of the big questions that is being asked is if British intelligence agencies want to seek to know the content of emails can they get round the normal law in the UK by simply asking an American agency to provide that information?” he said.

    Did anybody see what they did there?

  64. Does this mean a redefinition of the word paranoid? In future this word could be used only for the mentally weak who refuse to believe that the state is spying on them and remain in blind denial, like HabbaChooChoo.

    Anyone one who refuses to threaten state security online by video or voice medium will to have a state-threatening video made up by MI5 from voice and video clips stored on the master computer.

    My insurance company Liverpool Victoria recently modified/ manufactured a false telephone conversation to exonerate themselves from paying out for my stolen car.

    Our legal defence against the state will be that if they had the technology to spy on us, they also had the technology to make stuff up. Problem solved.

  65. No, Jake, but it says a lot about this growing set-up, especially when you read most dubious Daniel Ellsberg, another gung-ho operative who apparently turned leaker – thanks to the Plumbers’ paranoia – when he says that Snowden has withheld much of what he knows – what makes him a ticking bomb when he shows up somewhere as a defector.

  66. Julian Assange on ABC’s Lateline program talking about Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and the NSA leaks, Bob Carr, Wikileaks Party and Jemima Khan. Video about 20min.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-10/assanges-political-ambition/4744972

  67. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    10 Jun, 2013 - 4:45 pm

    @ Jake (16h17)

    Yes, Jake – one little verb and you’re in the clear…..

  68. Douglas Murray, shill .,…. his usual rather petulant style ……

    Does petulant means useless qunt?

    If not! Then best describe that weasely, wanky, gobshite, with his correct designation; an utterly useless qunt. Why on Earth the corporate Media get his kind of a wanker to appear on the telly? Every time he appears on my telly, I have to wash the fucking slime oozing off the screen, and although as yet there are no smellovisions (thank fuck for that ) yet there is an odour of sulphur/fart that hangs around my telly for days.

    =========

    In the latest the US has approached one Regina Ip (the one on the left, looks like a ladyboy) Whom in turn has issued an edict:

    “It’s actually in his best interest to leave Hong Kong”

    Fact that Snowden is aware of his fate, and that of his friends and family:

    “My family does not know what is happening. My primary fear is that they will come after my family, my friends, my partner. Anyone I have a relationship with.

    “I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. I am not going to be able to communicate with them. [The authorities] will act aggressively against anyone who has known me. That keeps me up at night.”

    However what is Regina Ip driving at? Why on Earth should the US have approached her? And why such a speedy response from her?

    Is Snowden a working CIA agent, who is injected into Hong Kong, which Chinese do not want to be involved with?

    Is Regina IP despite her “pro Beijing” credentials a Yankophile at heart and hence engaged in harassing Snowden?

    Fact is he has blown the cover of the corporate and intelligence services collusion in spying the shit out of anyone and everyone on the internet. Could this revelation (long suspected and now confirmed) result in countries taking the matters into their own hands and start separating their traffic from the reach of the NSA, and GCHQ?

    If the above scenario should hold, does this mean oodles of money for the technology providers as these countries start setting up their relevant infrastructures?

  69. Reminds me of another CIA/NSA cipher, David Hemler, who allegedly defected to Sweden so he could help set up Pale in an non-nucleary showdown with the USSR in the 1980s, and ended up staying there ever since when it didn’t occur.

  70. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    10 Jun, 2013 - 5:18 pm

    Apparently he approached the Washington Post and they did not respond to his inquiry to his satisfaction.

    WaPo eventually published just 4 of the files; exactly what Guardian published. What of the other 37 files?

  71. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    10 Jun, 2013 - 5:19 pm

    files should be ‘slides’ from PowerPoint presentation.

  72. Perhaps the WP remembered what happened when Wikileaks posted all the unredacted Afghan File. from Gareth Williams.

  73. Lord Palmerston

    10 Jun, 2013 - 6:03 pm

    There is a certain bitter satisfaction in all this for us Democracy-sceptics. Democracy, this hideous system, continues on its true course; and most of the commentators miss the point, as usual.

    Picking on a cabinet minister is silly; they are essentially interchangeable, as are the main parties. The public won’t much care either, any more than they cared over the wars of aggression, abductions, torture, etc etc. This ‘scandal’ will not be an election issue.

    The noise here is from a minority whose thinking is still in the 19th century (and, yes, I’m aware of the delicious irony). They still think in terms of the rule of law, of public spiritedness, of certain kinds of thing being beyond the pale. But Democracy has swept away those old fashioned inhibitions.

    As for Edward Snowden, while his motives are admirable one has to wonder whether he is not something of a fool; why should he risk so much for the sake of a public that holds its own rights and liberties in utter contempt?

  74. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    10 Jun, 2013 - 6:09 pm

    ” why should he risk so much for the sake of a public that holds its own rights and liberties in utter contempt?”

    Personal redemption perhaps. Manning and Ellsberg were contrite over their participation and wanted some way out. Plus, they may recognize public apathy, but see this as a potential means of awakening in them their own sense of survival.

  75. No irony, Pam, just ask Brougham’s ghost!

    And Snowden takes severe risks, it seems, in the hope of ending up as a real hero for Anglo-American covert government.

    For example, the Russians or the Chinese might well see to his execution if he drops in on them.

  76. Is it possible that the Snowden and the spooks are in on this together?

    Maybe the spooks want not so much a debate but the public to know how surveilled and subjugated they really are.

    They will dress it up as a necessary tool against global cyber espionage,but really it’s about total control of their citizens.

    I could be very wrong of course-i hope i am-but the timing is rather interesting.The leaks coming thick and fast as Obama heads to China for discussions about cyber warfare.It’s almost choreographed,with Greenwald seemingly able to push out leaks at will.

    Snowden apparently being in Hong Kong adds a further curious synchronicity.

    Just a thought…

  77. Excellent post. Bob Cryer raised this in the Commons 17 days before he (allegedly) fell asleep at the wheel of his car.

    http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1994/mar/25/menwith-hill-station-north-yorkshire#S6CV0240P0_19940325_HOC_157

    It is not beyond the realms of possibility that he was poisoned, like Tony Benn may have been too. Although nobody likes to think of their state as a murderer it is becoming increasingly evident that the US kills its own citizens (illegally at the moment) and we have Dr Kelly’s Death on our conscience.

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19840928&id=vctAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zKUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3446,5747459

  78. Keith Crosby

    10 Jun, 2013 - 6:42 pm

    “Is Britain becoming a police state?” was a staple on Any Questions in the 1970s but not any more, since it would be purely rhetorical.

  79. Jives, i also had a anti-advocates thought; that privacy is a weak issue compared to complicity in war mongering and cultural and political and economic repression. To put it mildy, it seems that secret services are either not protecting us against these things, or that they are nominally doing so by perpetuating their own preferred sides in these things.

    Manning leaked about inhumane behaviour and diplomatic strategy. If all Snowdon talks about is privacy it could be a loosing message. However i think that if he is insincere and faking it – we are so far gone in the deception and perception control stakes, that there is no hope for anything except whats fated to us. Things seem pretty far gone, but not that far gone.

    The information from Edward I think has seriously damaged Googles reputation at least, since Larry baldly denied it in the statement just days ago.

  80. Hague says the snooping claims are “baseless” but he refuses to confirm whether or not “we” use Prism. Surely even a neocon gauleiter can see the questionable logic of that statement!

    If Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning don’t win a joint Nobel Peace Prize (is it too late to nominate Snowden?) then the committee could always give it to the Drone King again, or maybe Clegg for staying silent while “we” armed the heart-eating animals in Syria?

    It’s great to see the wheels coming off the War Machine. Everywhere you look people are waking up and the truth is coming out.

    Hopefully the Guardian will keep up the pressure on Prism/GCHQ. Unless of course it implicates Israel…

  81. Willyrobinson, 12.12pm

    I was quite surprised to read Snowden distancing himself from Bradley Manning, claiming that at least he had read all that he disclosed, and verified that noone would be harmed.

    Yes, bit unfortunate that, but he did also say he admired Manning and called him a “classic whistleblower” so, who knows, quote not contextualised properly by the Guardian? Snowden has absorbed a lot of the misreporting of Manning’s actions there’s been in the US press (specifically about this particular issue)?

    Here’s a good detailed piece on exactly why Snowden was wrong about it:

    Confronting Edward Snowden’s Remarks on Bradley Manning:
    http://ohtarzie.wordpress.com/2013/06/10/confronting-edward-snowdens-remarks-on-bradley-manning/

  82. Darkernet are usually good on this sort of stuff. They’ve produced a page on the PRISM programme, GCHQ’s involvement and the possible involvement of Palantir. Lots of resource links at the bottom:

    NSA new surveillance centre | social media partners’ spying specs | Prism coding (and more):
    http://darkernet.in/nsa-new-surveillance-centre-social-media-partners-spying-specs-and-more/

  83. Karla, 12.42pm

    Booz Allen works for Satan, of course, but paradoxically, the firm may be more than ordinarily vulnerable to the worm of conscience. Booz Allen doesn’t do a lot of McKinsey-style indoctrination (we’re the best, we’re the best, Are you good enough? Are you good enough?) It’s too big and protean to hold together as a a cult. The firm has traditionally allowed corporate culture to be imposed at the practice level, resulting in considerable diversity among a lot of petty satraps. Most are totalitarian, of course, especially in military bailywicks. But some fail to circumscribe thought. And their top echelon still includes some deep thinkers – tormented, of course, but not yet entirely insane. There are more and bigger Snowdens in their pipeline

    I had to laugh seeing those words together in the same paragraph.

    http://wiki.echelon2.org/wiki/Booz_Allen_Hamilton

    This is one of the things Barrett Brown and his Project PM were working on before he got stitched up on ridiculous charges for sharing a link on the internetz and is facing a possible 100-year jail sentence (probably whyhe got stitched up on ridiculous charges and is facing a 100-year jail sentence, come to think of it).

  84. Among other women mentioned by Bob Cryer in his last major speech on the subject, Lindis Percy is still protesting about Menwith Hill 20 years after first breaking in. “More power to their elbow” said Mr Cryer. I hope you will all do what you can in the face of these intrusions into personal liberty. There will be another annual “Independence from America” on July 4th this year at Menwith Hill. The food (vegan) is delicious and very reasonably-priced. You’ll wonder why you ever ate meat if you taste these earthly, or should that be heavenly, wares.

    At the Bilderberg Fringe 2,000 people, encouraged by Alex Jones of Infowars, were chanting “The answer to 1984 is 1776″ and it was heartening to hear. It is time we returned to old values and civil liberties.

    I’m doing my bit. Today I raised a freedom of information request on the FCO about 5 British based Muslims who were extradited to US supermax torture-chambers. In brief I want to know why their hearings have been put off for a further five to six months (should have been October, now March) when there must have been a cast-iron case surely to send our citizens to a country with one of the worst human rights’ records in the world.

    I have also written to the new prosecution lawyer employed by Sofia Wilen, Ms Elisabeth Massi Fritz, to try and find out if she helped Sofia Wilen change her statement to try and make it more convincing or whether it was all Sofia’s own work. I asked a few other pertinent questions too.

    We must keep fighting for freedom. We must protect our whistle-blowers. They are the best way forward to removing the diabolic state espionage on its own people.

  85. Ben Franklin, 5.18pm

    WaPo eventually published just 4 of the files; exactly what Guardian published. What of the other 37 files?

    I don’t know, but I’ve gone all a-flutter about it, because of something Julian Assange said in that Lateline interview Jemand posted. Assange confirmed he’d had “indirect communication” with “his [Snowden’s] people” (whoever that may be…). As Guy Snowden’s original negotiations with WaPo were that all 41 slides be published “within 72 hours” and both WaPo and the Guardian have welched on the deal, I’m kinda hoping that Snowden’s next stop might be the world’s favourite “publisher of last resort” – WikiLeaks.

    Transcript of the Lateline interview:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-10/assanges-political-ambition/4744972

    On Snowden’s precarious position at the moment, there’s this NYT piece stating he’s very likely to be extradited from Hong Kong:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/world/asia/edward-snowden-hong-kong-extradition.html?hp&_r=0&pagewanted=all

    and WikiLeaks’ twitter has been pumping out lots of advice for Edward Snowden. Really going the distance to support him:

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks

  86. @Guano ‘Does this mean a redefinition of the word paranoid?’

    ‘A paranoid is someone who has just found out what is going on’. — William S. Burroughs (or someone like him)

  87. John Goss, 7.18pm

    I have also written to the new prosecution lawyer employed by Sofia Wilen, Ms Elisabeth Massi Fritz, to try and find out if she helped Sofia Wilen change her statement to try and make it more convincing or whether it was all Sofia’s own work. I asked a few other pertinent questions too.

    Good for you! I doubt you’ll get a sensible answer, though. Massi Fritz is a new appointment, only one month old, so she wasn’t in any way involved in any of the 7 or 8 discussions with police Sofia Wilen has had. Probably the only thing you’ll succeed in doing is drawing the attention of a host of angry Swedish trolls (possibly Swedish intelligence ones) to Craig’s blog – they seem to follow Sofia around like a rash.

  88. “Britons never will be slaves!” so the ditty goes.

    Whilst at uni one of the lecturers (with a madly left wing reputation)… pointed out that actually through most of history they have been. Bollockz! I thought at the time – with all the independence of thought that the British Brainwashing Corporation bestows.

    And yet… now… a confirmed anarchist, I see the truth of that. Serfs through history. Pike fodder for the laird. Canon fodder for the trenches. From the vagrancy act to today’s bedroom penalty. From every inch of land being claimed as already owned to a politician deciding what is history.

    We are, they think, property of the state. But thought can free you.

  89. Ironic rainbow alert!

    Edward Snowden’s NSA workplace in Hawaii:

    http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/press_room/2012/a4_hawaii_final.shtml

  90. Anybody else having problems connecting to Arbed’s darkernet link? It was working only minutes ago.

  91. Yes Jemand – I get a database error when I try to connect. You can find it in Google’s cache though. If you (ahem!) trust Google at https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ral4bGK40rMJ:darkernet.in/nsa-new-surveillance-centre-social-media-partners-spying-specs-and-more/

  92. doug scorgie

    10 Jun, 2013 - 8:41 pm

    Abe Rene
    (1) “Seriously, we are talking about Western democracies, not Uzbekistan. Citizens are free to set up parties like Put An Honest Leftie into Parliament, get elected (if they can) and then change official policy.”

    (2) “@Indigo Do you really believe that MPs have any control at all over ‘national security’ matters? “I can think of a number of possible ways: being on commons select committees, being on party policy committees, and being cabinet ministers.”

    (3) “I wonder why Edward Snowden didn’t take connecting flights all the way to Rejkjavik and then ask for asylum, instead of flying into Hong Kong…”

    Abe, are you thick, naive or a card carrying statist?

  93. KingofWelshNoir

    Spot on.

  94. doug scorgie

    10 Jun, 2013 - 9:00 pm

    Abe Rene
    10 Jun, 2013 – 11:45 am

    “Of course. Snowden might not be in HK at all! (Lightly slaps his forehead). Where he might be is anyone’s guess. South America, maybe.”

    The Guardian interviewed him in Hong Kong.

  95. KingofWelshNoir 10 Jun, 2013 – 10:16 am

    “It’s a terrible irony that the internet which is such a wonderful development may turn out to be the means of our own ultimate ensnarement. It gives the spooks undreamed of possibilities for control and it seems we are being slowly bound round and round with digital spider silk.”

    Is that what’s happening in the comments on this blog. Quickly the comments are o/t going round in circles, just what’s required.

  96. doug scorgie

    10 Jun, 2013 - 9:56 pm

    Brendan
    10 Jun, 2013 – 12:32 pm

    “As to Hague, well I think we all know about Hague. He’s lying. His other, ah, issues are his own, but his routine dishonesty is our problem. How this failed leader became Forn Sec is beyond me, unless it’s related to these, uhm, other issues about which we may only speculate.”

    In August 2010, Hague set out a values based foreign policy. He said:

    “We cannot have a foreign policy without a conscience. Foreign policy is domestic policy written large. The values we live by at home do not stop at our shores. Human rights are not the only issue that informs the making of foreign policy, but they are indivisible from it, not least because the consequences of foreign policy failure are human”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/7972463/Human-rights-are-key-to-our-foreign-policy.html

    Just one month later, after press speculation, William Hague admitted that he shared a hotel room on a number of occasions with Christopher Myers, a young man with little, if any, foreign affairs experience.

    Who tipped off the press? MI5?

    Soon after, Hague abandoned his human rights values-based foreign policy and has since toed the establishment line.

    State blackmail?

    Picture of “twin beds”:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/william-hagues-twin-bedded-hotel-room-245504

  97. Fred
    10 Jun, 2013 – 12:38 pm

    “This is what I don’t understand, why anyone is surprised, I thought it had been common knowledge for over a decade.”

    Yes it has, as you say, but people who pointed this out have been labelled as paranoid conspiracy theorists.

    Now that it is officially out in the open (and the “conspiracy theorists” have been vindicated – but not acknowledged) we are told it was/is for our own protection.

  98. Doug Scorbie

    You are very cynical about Hague, but I think in the wrong direction. William Hague is not capable of thinking up words like:

    “The values we live by at home do not stop at our shores. Human rights are not the only issue that informs the making of foreign policy, but they are indivisible from it, not least because the consequences of foreign policy failure are human.”

    He is not a decent man capable of being compromised. The Bankers “fixed it” for Cameron by lying to Gordon Brown and busting the economy, allowing a group of Thatcherite savages back into power that would never have seen the light of day again after the fall of Mrs Insane.

    These people have an agenda against the former Soviet Union, the bogeyman outsider of the Cold War, and they start civil wars in order prise ex-Soviet assets from their hands, killing millions of people. I am more worried about Hague’s relationship with Israel than with another man.

    Last week Israel shipped in Iranian mercenaries to AlQusayr, no doubt tipping off rebel fighters beforehand, in order to secure control over their Northern border with Syria/Lebanon. Netanyahu and Hague, Osborne and Cameron have horrible bedroom habits for sure, same as Maggie and the Savile man.

    But I will never forget Maggie publicly announcing her sponsorship of Saddam Hussein. The Tories have form.

  99. Bruce Schneier has weighed in with a couple of interesting posts.

    http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/06/the_security_ri_3.html#comments

    I wonder at the possible google connections Private Eye has revealed about NewLab & Tories?

    http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=news

    “GOOGLE TANGLE
    The many links between the internet giant and UK political leaders.”

    Anyone got the most recent copy? Sod buying it, it’s nothing like as good as it was when this place was all glaciers.

    Also this bang up to date post
    http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/06/government_secr.html#comments

    related links:

    http://earlywarn.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/brainstorming-few-hypotheses-about-prism.html

    http://unhandled.com/2013/06/07/a-taxonomy-of-prism-possibilities/

  100. Lwtc247
    10 Jun, 2013 – 1:13 pm

    “Fear not… for these slime balls will be voted in again at the next election.”

    Yes and it doesn’t matter which party the slime balls represent; they are all under the control of the puppet-masters, the state elite.

  101. This is one govt IT project I hope just ends up being a useless white elephant

  102. Trowbridge H. Ford
    10 Jun, 2013 – 5:30 pm

    “Perhaps the WP remembered what happened when Wikileaks posted all the unredacted Afghan File. from Gareth Williams.”

    Wikileaks – un-redacted Afghan File – Gareth Williams.

    How does Gareth Williams fit in here?

    Perhaps I have missed something but I don’t see a connection.

    Please explain

  103. the odious homosexual paedophile protector makes my flesh crawl. it is beyond bizarre that the dumbstruck british public let these unelected cretins, criminals and perverts destroy their civil liberties, their wealth, and personal freedoms and then just sit there and watch it all happen like they’re in a trance or watching a car crash.

    it’s a statistical fact that politicians are 4 times more likely to be jailed than the average person so it is them that we should be watching. most of these cunts shouldn’t even be walking the streets let alone telling us what to do.

  104. Lord Palmerston
    10 Jun, 2013 – 6:03 pm

    “There is a certain bitter satisfaction in all this for us Democracy-sceptics.”

    “Picking on a cabinet minister is silly; they are essentially interchangeable, as are the main parties.”

    Quite true but the thing that is not interchangeable is the state: comprising the unelected, unaccountable, rich and powerful elite.

    Can you explain your alternative to democracy that would see these bastards held to account?

  105. “This is one govt IT project I hope just ends up being a useless white elephant”

    Very good.

    I wonder does govt procurement use better companies for security projects than they do for others, or is their much trumpeted listening ability as useful as a BBC detector van.

    They seem to use Israeli companies for these and other security projects.

  106. The world needs whistleblowers. Now more than ever.

    More like, we need to hang some of the traitors. A promise to hang the war criminals should pull in a good few votes in a US, French or British election.

  107. Some details about probable/possible Israeli involvement:

    http://dogmaandgeopolitics.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/israeli-involvement-in-nsa-spying-by-stephen-lendman/

    Whole NSA thing is a hoax, too apparently:

    http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2013/06/10/edward-snowden-what-are-you-willing-to-risk-for-your-new-facebook-hero/#comments

    http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/manufactured-hero-edward-snowden-take-to-the-streets-on-july-4th-in-washington-d-c/#comments

    Not that they aren’t spying/storing/logging everything, that has long been universally accepted; but do these ‘revelations’ actually tell us anything new, other than a new name — old wine in a new bottle. New Dazzling Prism3. With all this net privacy brouhaha, the Bilderbuggers are getting an easy ride and there hasn’t been a new royal story for some hours. When does the ‘silly season’ for the media officially start?

    I don’t know if Greenwald would be easily fooled, but the alacrity with which the mainstream media have gone large on this, doesn’t inspire confidence or salvage their credibility. Vampire politicians like Rifkind are tumbling out of their House of Lords lairs, hardly stopping to brush the cobwebs off before rushing to the TV studios to issue fevered denials.

  108. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    11 Jun, 2013 - 12:56 am

    Crypt;

    I have had the same creepy thought. Were we separated at birth?

  109. Craig said, “It is not whether the individual had done anything wrong: it is whether the state has done anything wrong.”

    Despite this opening statement the cipher fails to inspire anyone here clearly because we are all focused on violations of our own civil liberties when in fact the wise among us couldn’t give a fkuc about autonomy; political, domestic, public, foreign or otherwise. We have moved on.

    Governments are antithetical to autonomy. Governments are dependent on public acceptance, confidence and certainty. That is the axiom of dominion and key to the reinforcement of power and control of our lives.

    The reliance on discreet social disclosure by the establishment to gauge nihilism and rebellion is an obsession, a neurosis as Bush the son intimates in a spent address to a joint session of Congress on September 20, 2001 when he pronounced, “Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.” (and we have armed drones!)

    Most of us with any sagacity are revolutionary and some of us are indeed rebels because we know the system of representative governance is crooked, perfidious, sordid and sleazy.

    LIFE IS meaningless to those consumed by power. It is those that are willing to hack into and destroy any life deemed apocalyptic even threatening to this system of governance.

    Thankfully we are many and growing, they are few. We are winning. To those ‘Masters of Nothing’ -expect us.

  110. Million dollar question

    11 Jun, 2013 - 2:36 am

    So why is there no 911 whistle-blower?!

  111. Happy to, Doug Scorgie.

    Gareth Williams got in trouble when, thanks to his ability to hack into encrypted lap tops for MI6/GCHQ, the Manhattan 11, naive Russian nationals and supporters who were willing to work with the Agency to expose subversive countrymen, were set up themselves as Russian spies, and when he decided to do something drastic about it, thinking he was untouchable, he was cruelly murdered.

    Wikileaks betrayed Williams by posting his unredacted Afghan File.

    I believe that the current case with Edward Snowden is an improvement upon the Manhattan 11 fiasco where a real secret agent goes under deep cover to entice America’s enemies, especially China, to fall for the ruse that he is really a whistleblower who has all kinds of real secrets to tell Beijing – what will cause the new Chinese President all kinds of problems if he stupidly fails for it.

    In the process, Bradley Manning will be made to look more like a real spy.

    It’s new DCI John Brennan’s effort to prove that he, not former DCI Leon Panetta, is the real spy master.

  112. The basic reason that there are no whistleblowers over the 9/11 fiasco is that most of them, the 15 unarmed agents, apparently working for the Agency, were on the planes when they crashed.

    The Pentagon made sure that the seven ones on the last plane that crashed did not turn whistleblowers over what they had foiled by having it deliberately shot down.

  113. …whether the explicit denials from Facebook, Microsoft and Google are barefaced lies..

    This doesn’t matter, and rather misses the point. The entire purpose of companies like FB, MS and G are to aggregate data on individuals, and sell that data to interested parties for a profit. (When not performing any additional functions in secret on behalf of the state.)

    One such company is Palantir, a name familiar to readers of Tolkien, which boasts of its speciality in looking for patterns in vast amounts of disparate data. It has coinciding members on the board of directors with FB, and one just happens to be the founder of Paypal. The latter is a US-style Libertarian, which means one who disparages all state involvement in the “market” apart from enforcement of copyright and property law, and of course handing over taxpayer money to your own interests.

    The Paypal founder fantasises about a Libertarian paradise on some massive disused oil platform, or tanker, which would not be subject to any laws except their own principles. Until bad luck/ pirates / an epidemic etc. hits them, of course. He also offered the services of Palantir to teabagger groups at the last election, offering to dig dirt on their enemies. For a price, naturally.

  114. 11 June: Fisaa law grants US ‘heavy-calibre mass surveillance firepower’
    by Ian Cobain and Richard Norton-Taylor
    It is widely alleged that the satellite ground station at Menwith Hill in North Yorkshire, the NSA’s largest eavesdropping centre outside the US, has been used for this purpose…
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/10/fisaa-law-us-mass-surveillance

    can u believe this poll? thought not…

    11 June – Washington Post – Jon Cohen: Most Americans back NSA tracking phone records, prioritize probes over privacy
    (Jon Cohen is polling director for Capital Insight, Washington Post Media’s independent polling group)
    A large majority of Americans say the federal government should focus on investigating possible terrorist threats even if personal privacy is compromised, and most support the blanket tracking of telephone records in an effort to uncover terrorist activity, according to a new Washington Post-Pew Research Center poll.
    Fully 45 percent of all Americans say the government should be able to go further than it is, saying that it should be able to monitor everyone’s online activity if doing so would prevent terrorist attacks….
    Overall, 56 percent of Americans consider the NSA’s accessing of telephone call records of millions of Americans through secret court orders “acceptable,” while 41 percent call the practice “unacceptable.” ….
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/most-americans-support-nsa-tracking-phone-records-prioritize-investigations-over-privacy/2013/06/10/51e721d6-d204-11e2-9f1a-1a7cdee20287_story.html

  115. It might turn out that this NSA leak works for the US govt, at least domestically, in terms of eventual public acceptance of the encroachment by the surveillance state into their lives. Many US citizens will see this revelation as a necessary development in the fight against the perennial bogeyman, whatever form it takes at the time.

  116. The public seem to regard privacy as an outdated concept. They don’t much care if their online activity is being snooped on because they themselves are throwing away their own privacy by posting every mundane and intimate detail all the time, often not even bothering to use the privacy settings offered by the online platforms, let alone taking any extra precautions to protect themselves against back-door access by government agencies.

    It will take some clear cases of members of the public being hurt by the surveillance before many people sit up and take notice – “hey, that could have been me!”. So far, perhaps a few individuals of Pakistani descent being wrongly arrested, entrapped, renditioned or tortured does not raise much alarm. They probably had weird beards and were up to no good anyway, right?? The only significant public response about internet freedoms seems to be when the right to illegally download vast quantities of pirated movies and music is threatened – a rather selfish and superficial concern, if you ask me, and not a principled human rights position.

  117. Flaming June

    11 Jun, 2013 - 7:38 am

    O/Tish

    The head of this omniscient state and the head of a very strange family, uses an unusual form of address on her husband’s birthday card!

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-06-10/queens-card-addressed-to-hrh-the-duke-of-edinburgh/

    I am sure that those of you here who are married use a similar style when sending communications to your spouses.

  118. Flaming June

    11 Jun, 2013 - 7:47 am

    As a reporter said, after half an hour nobody was any the wiser as to who, what and why.

    Strange that the question was addressed to Gideon who attended yet Clarke, who also attended, answered.

    The HoC becomes more like the set for an Alice in Wonderland film by the day.
    Michael Meacher (Oldham West and Royton, Labour)

    (Urgent Question):To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will make a statement on the Bilderberg conference, which he attended.

    Kenneth Clarke (Rushcliffe, Conservative)

    This is a first occasion for me, as I have never previously answered a question in the House of Commons on behalf of a private organisation for which the Government have no responsibility. I have been a member of the steering committee of Bilderberg for many years now—about 10 years, I think—and by chance this will be my last year, as we have a rule against being on the committee for too long, so I am on the point of stepping down. [Interruption.]Other roles are timeless, with no rules at all, but in this role I have now reached the end of my allotted span.

    The Bilderberg organisation exists for the purpose of holding meetings once a year in various countries; it exists for no other purpose. This year, the meeting was held at a large hotel near Watford in Hertfordshire. I did not receive adequate notice of the right hon. Gentleman’s question—because I was not found in time—to put to hand the list of those who participated and the agenda we discussed. We always circulate those before the meeting, and they are readily available. I can certainly put any hon. Member in touch with a source of the list of those who took part.

    /..
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2013-06-10a.25.0&s=speaker%3A10115#g27.1

    This is Hague’s piffle/waffle from yesterday.

    William Hague (Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs; Richmond (Yorks), Conservative)

    With permission, Mr Speaker, I shall make a statement on the work of the Government Communications Headquarters—GCHQ—its legal framework and recent publicity about it. As Foreign Secretary, I am responsible for the work of GCHQ and the Secret Intelligence Service—MI6—under the overall authority of the Prime Minister. My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary is responsible for the work of the Security Service, MI5.

    /..
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2013-06-10a.31.0

    That went on for just over an hour. He must have been quite done in after that effort.

  119. today we get a distraction –

    U.S. could decide to arm Syrian rebels as early as this week: U.S. official
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/10/us-usa-syria-idUSBRE9590HM20130610

    and today abc australia chooses the very people whose plan it is to balkanise the arab countries!

    AUDIO: ABC Australia: Is Syria headed for partition?
    Israeli defence specialist, Ron Ben-Yishai, tells us that the Syrian conflict may be resolved through the partition of the country but that president Assad could equally make an all out strike on Israel if he feels cornered
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-11/is-syria-headed-for-partition/4746400

    google’s world news page couples the abc piece with this! LOL.

    Jerusalem Post: Israel avoids US debate on arming Syrian rebels
    http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Israel-stays-clear-of-US-debate-on-arming-Syrian-rebels-316060

  120. Flaming June

    11 Jun, 2013 - 7:57 am

    Comment from Medialens which mentions Craig. I concure with CJ.

    CameraOn :”our intelligence agencies do a fantastic job” – did they let the public know about Iraq?!
    Posted by CJ on June 11, 2013, 2:26 am

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22839090

    “David Cameron said the UK’s intelligence agencies were subject to proper scrutiny by the Intelligence and Security Committee in the House of Commons.

    “That scrutiny is important and I will make sure that it takes place.”

    He added: “I’m satisfied that we have intelligence agencies that do a fantastic job to keep us safe and operate within the law.” ”

    We always hear what a great job the intelligence services are doing – but did we ever hear a dicky bird from any of them on the lies our politicians were feeding us about Iraq before and after 2003.

    Do we hear from them about the truth in Yugoslavia, Libya and Syria – nothing.

    Why should we have any faith in these people who have continually conspired with politicians to hide the truth from the public for their own gain?

    The Government is trying to play the armed forces Patriot card in respect of a community that could never claim to be working for us, only themselves and their political masters.

    As Craig Murray says we are being protected from a threat which is 300 times less likely to happen than drowning in our own bath – and it costs us billions each year and eats into our human rights like the bubonic plague.

    Power corrupts , absolute power corrupts absolutely, secret power is absolute power that we just haven’t crossed yet.

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1370914001.html

    ~~~~

    Cameron was speaking yesterday at DP World’s massive new development in Essex – The London Gateway. DP World is a United Arab Emirates owned global conglomerate. They also run Southampton port in conjunction with Associated British Ports.

    The Board http://webapps.dpworld.com/portal/page/portal/DP_WORLD_WEBSITE/About-DP-World/Board-of-Directors

    See connections of Parker and Williams.

  121. never mind, let’s arm those syrian rebels and get on with the show:

    Al-Qa’ida Islamists kill Syrian boy, 15, for “insulting the prophet”
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/al-qaida-islamists-kill-syrian-boy-15-for-insulting-the-prophet/story-fnb64oi6-1226661676115

  122. Top Ten Issues I Have with the Manufactured Hero Edward Snowden Story

    Posted on June 10, 2013 by willyloman

    by Scott Creighton

    http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2013/06/10/top-ten-issues-i-have-with-the-manufactured-hero-edward-snowden-story/

    worrying … I would never have taken Glenn Greenwald for “gullible”

  123. with thanks to Cryptonym for the original willyloman link

  124. Truth Is Free

    11 Jun, 2013 - 8:12 am

    @ Million Dollar Question 11 Jun, 2013 – 2:36 am

    I think people should be very suspicious of this O/T post about 9/11. For the record, below are some people who publicly “blew the whistle” about things that they personally experienced and which were not as people were being told by the media and ended up dead. Many others are still alive with perfectly credible eyewitness testimony.

    It’s easy to dismiss them as ‘conspiracy theorists’ yet their accounts are compelling, often corroborative and they provide a far more comprehensive and believable account of the events than the official NIST report. Finally, these people are subject to ‘blacklisting’ once they have spoken out in public and some of the victims families have never received there share of the compensation to this day because they publicly questioned their loved ones deaths.

    “Million Dollar Question” is the kind of dangerous fool that thinks people like William Hague are decent human beings.

    Barry Jennings (Eyewitness to explosions and bodies inside WTC7) — Undisclosed causes

    Kenneth Johannemann (Eyewitness to explosions inside WTC, Saw no airplanes hit but just saw “floors blow up”) — Gunshot to the head, ruled a suicide

    Beverly Eckert (Wife of 9/11 WTC Victim, Earwitness to WTC Explosion, Refused hush money) — Airplane crash

    Prasanna Kalahasthi (Wife of 9/11 “Flight 11 Passenger”) — Suicide by hanging

    David Graham (Dentist who saw three of the 9/11 Hijackers with Pakistani businessman in Shreveport, Louisiana) — Murdered (Poisoned with anti-freeze)

    Paul Smith (Pilot of WABC7′s 9/11 “International Shot” Chopper) — Car accident

    Michael H. Doran (9/11 Victims Lawyer) — Airplane crash

    Bertha Champagne (Longtime babysitter for 911 Perp Marvin Bush’s family) — Crushed by a car

    Christopher Landis (Former Operations Manager for Safety Service Patrol for the Virginia Department of Transportation, Interviewed by makers of “The Pentacon”, Gave makers of “The Pentacon” a photo collection, Involved in the response to the Pentagon attack) — Suicide

    John P. O’Neill (FBI Counter-terrorism expert, Obsessed with catching Osama Bin Laden, Suspected Clinton/Bush/FBI complicity in the cover-up and protection of Bin Laden) — Died in the WTC on 9/11

    Deborah Palfrey (Ran an escort service that had 911 Perps on it’s list) — Suicide by hanging

    David Wherley (US General who ordered fighter jets to scramble on 9/11) — Train crash

    Un-named Ticket Agent (Boston Logan Ticket Agent who checked Atta and Alomari) — Suicide

    Suzanne Jovin (Yale Student who had a thesis about Osama Bin Laden, Her thesis adviser was an intelligence operative) — Murdered (Killer unknown)

    Perry Kucinich (Brother of Congressman who advocated new 9/11 investigation) — Fell down

    Salvatore Princiotta (9/11 FDNY Firefighter from Ladder 9) — Murdered

    Ezra Harel (Chairman of the Israeli Company That Handled Security For All 9/11 Airports) — Heart attack

    Bruce Ivins (Patsy in the 9/11-linked “Anthrax” Case) — Drug overdose

  125. “today we get a distraction”

    Oddie

    I wouldn’t like to think that Edward Snowden is the distraction, but

  126. “I don’t want to live in a society that does these sort of things … I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded’” Snowden.

    I wonder if at a subtle level, there is a shift in the collective consciousness taking place, accelerated by the younger generation. Assange, Manning, Snowden and others are responding to the massive injustice we have seen unabated in this new millennium. There are signs of a real and meaningful polarisation taking place at a far deeper level that the peace ‘movement’ around the Vietnam War days.

    The internet is also facilitating and fuelling this. It is a double-edged sword: one that lends to a more efficient and effective information and communication platform to move the global conversation constructively towards greater justice in society. While on the other side the power wielders and brokers figure out ways to sustain their grip and control over the 99%.

    The real impact of the internet as a platform of change is yet to materialise in the way society and government are arranged. Governments and their financial-military-industrial combine still have the synergy of sheer money power. However, in the meantime, millions upon millions young people around the world are creating a 1+1=11 synergy in fundamentally questioning and challenging the fatal grip.

    Snowden’s actions are undoubtedly historic.

  127. “Perry Kucinich (Brother of Congressman who advocated new 9/11 investigation) — Fell down”

    Didn’t know that about Dennis Kucinich’s brother, but “fell down”?

    http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/12/perry_kucinich_younger_brother.html

  128. “Alleged “Anti-Terror Bill” to Legalize Administrative Detention”

    Tuesday June 11, 2013 08:00
    by IMEMC & Agencies Report post

    “The Israeli Government passed Sunday [June 9 2013] the “Anti-Terror Bill”, authorizing harsher punishment against individuals suspected or convicted of aiding armed groups in the country, and anywhere in the world.

    Several human rights groups in Israel and around the world voiced serious concerns regarding direct human rights violations, especially since this law strengthens and “legalizes” Administrative Detention orders confining hundreds, and even thousands, behind bars for extended periods without charges or trial.”

    http://www.imemc.org/article/65647

  129. Craig has a new post up in case…

  130. “So why is there no 911 whistle-blower?!”

    They died.

  131. worrying … I would never have taken Glenn Greenwald for “gullible”

    Even heroes can be wrong, Dreoilin. Sadly, I think Willy Loman has a case. Watching this space with close attention.

  132. Now the Russians are volunteering that they will consider granting Snowden asylum if he requests it.

    Putin has certainly taken on board what happened to Williams er al., and is playing it for all it is worth.

    Doubt Snowden will be granted it unless he is indited as a spy, and don’t see him ever going there.

    More likely he will just hang out somewhere with Chris Metsos, the CIA agent who helped set up the Manhattan 11.

  133. Flaming June

    11 Jun, 2013 - 1:10 pm

    The Carlyle Group own Booz, Allan etc.

    As of August 2008, what was formerly Booz Allen Hamilton’s parent company (which used the Booz Allen name itself) divided in two. The Booz Allen Hamilton moniker was retained by the half focusing on U.S. governmental matters, with Booz & Company taking sole control of its commercial strategy and international portfolio. Booz Allen Hamilton is majority owned by private equity firm The Carlyle Group, while Booz & Company is owned and operated as a partnership.[6] On November 17, 2010, Booz Allen’s shares of common stock began trading at the New York Stock Exchange.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booz_Allen_Hamilton

    :::::

    Leaker’s Employer Is Paid to Maintain Government Secrets

    By BINYAMIN APPELBAUM and ERIC LIPTON

    Published: June 9, 2013
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/us/booz-allen-grew-rich-on-government-contracts.html?_r=0

  134. Flaming June

    11 Jun, 2013 - 1:21 pm

    I spotted Oliver Kamm’s blog in today’s Times. It is headed ‘Jewish Hatred Lies Behind All Conspiracy Theories’.* He wrote about Bilderberg and 9/11.

    * From memory, I believe it said ‘All’.

    :::

    I also noticed that Bill Gates has over £130m of his funds invested in G4S, which means he owns 3.2% of the company. Nick Buckles of Limp Ics fame has gone and an ex BG finance director Ashley Almanza has taken over as CEO. Buckles went off with £1.2m. Amazing isn’t it.
    http://www.g4s.com/en/Investors/News%20Events%20and%20Presentations/Announcements/2013/05/21/Announcement/

  135. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    11 Jun, 2013 - 2:35 pm

    Willy Loman? As in ‘Death of a Salesman’? And Snowden is the salesman? hmmmm.

    “Don’t they send troops back into battle these days with missing legs? Or am I missing something?”

    This seems to be the shiniest penny. Didn’t Einstein work in the patent office as a clerk, before the world discovered his genius?
    Didn’t Einstein fail Algebra?

    I’ll admit, with all due cynicism and caution, that it’s possible this could be a false-flag, but it’s not probable.

  136. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    11 Jun, 2013 - 2:48 pm

    My buddy Joe Cannon on ten ways to smear Snowden.

    http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

  137. blogspot.com, blogspot.co.uk, blogger.com are ALL google owned.

    Although who owns something or where they are hosted hardly makes any difference as all traffic goes through the same sieve and the same parallel conduits, so it is not exactly a case of making it easier for them to tap into by using their own captive firms.

    Not that it means that bloggers there are insincere, and many will have been blogging there since before google acquired the domains and data, and they came with the fixtures and fittings.

    Rod Hull and Emu have landed and are in town being presented with wooly jumpers.

  138. @Fred 10 Jun, 2013 – 12:38 pm

    I agree with you on this. I have always assumed that anything you do digitally could be accessed by whoever, governments, intelligence services, corporations, the press, anybody really.

    Can’t figure out how you can be just so wrong on Scotland ‘tho!

    It must be a case of cognitive dissonance.

  139. Lord Palmerston

    11 Jun, 2013 - 5:19 pm

    Doug Scorgie,

    >Quite true but the thing that is not interchangeable is the state:
    >comprising the unelected, unaccountable, rich and powerful elite.

    On the contrary, our rulers are indeed elected and are accountable. Our elections are still for the most part properly conducted. Our governments are not imposed by space aliens, they are what people vote for, in election after election. The people have the means to hold the rulers to account; they do not choose to use it, or not on the grounds you might wish they would.

    As for the alternative to democracy, there is no need for explanation. We enjoyed its governance for centuries until the disaster of universal suffrage.

  140. Ben Franklin, 2.48pm

    Yes, the idiocy of some of these ‘smears’ against Snowden are hilarious. Enjoy this:

    Ten Things to Know About Edward Snowden
    http://rixstep.com/1/1/1/20130610,00.shtml

    Gotta love Number 10:

    10. Lived comfortably. Oh the outrage.

  141. Ben/Arbed i’m with you guys on this. Confusion breeds confusion. Even if some people go out on a limb to shine a light on the rats. Many blind mice!

  142. “Can’t figure out how you can be just so wrong on Scotland ‘tho!

    It must be a case of cognitive dissonance.”

    Why is it so difficult to understand that ANY form of Nationalism is just another form of Tribalism. Regressive. We’re a Type Zero Global Civilisation — do you want to remain there? Life moves forwards not backwards thankfully.

  143. “Can’t figure out how you can be just so wrong on Scotland ‘tho!

    It must be a case of cognitive dissonance.”

    You are right, that is precisely why you don’t understand.

    Cognitive dissonance is when someone holds two opposing beliefs at the same time, like the belief that Nationalism is good and the belief that Nationalism is bad.

  144. @Fred 11 Jun, 2013 – 9:26 pm

    Therein lies your problem in that you conflate nationalism with self determination!

  145. Flaming June

    12 Jun, 2013 - 6:47 am

    Some more of the political repercussions in the US.

    NSA surveillance: anger mounts in Congress at ‘spying on Americans’
    After a closed-door briefing of the House of Representatives, lawmakers call for a review of the Patriot Act

    Dan Roberts and Spencer Ackerman in Washington and Alan Travis in London

    Wednesday 12 June 2013 01.45 BST

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/12/anger-mounts-congress-telephone-surveillance-programmes

  146. “Therein lies your problem in that you conflate nationalism with self determination!”

    No I don’t.

    It’s just that I use the accepted definition of self determination, as used by people like the UN, not a made up definition.

  147. Steven R, Nickerson is a Pulitzer-prize winning photographer who apparently got his employer, the Denver Post, interested in a claim by a Chinese-mainland paper that Edward Snowden had been recruited by China’s Ministry of State Security, or had been caught in one of its honey-trap operations – like I indicated in the Gareth Williams case, and wrote about on codshit.com, Veterans Today, and other sites.

    Little wonder that the FBI might think that I knew about Nickerson. Actually, he knew about me.

    Now Nickerson has died of a muscular disease, and stuff is starting to leak out about what he was up to.

    Whether his claims about Snowden are true remain to be determined.

  148. Looks more like the omnipotent state where the FBI was fishing around in the hope of determining that I work for the Chinese Ministry of State Security who got Steven R. Nickerson interested in what it was doing, especially planting stories about what CIA/NSA agent Edward Snowden was apparently up to, and Nickerson no sooner got his employer, the Denver Post, interested in publishing them than he conveniently up and died!

  149. “… that motive of suspicion can be terribly slight, like you have someone as a facebook friend who has a facebook friend whose sister once knew someone connected with an animal liberation group…” Craig Murray.

    And given that there are at most only four degrees of separation between everyone on Facebook, that means everyone.

    Now, I’d always assumed that it was common knowledge that the NSA spied on all telephone and internet communications engaged in by people in the UK, and GCHQ did the same for those in the USA (and that there are similar arrangements wrt the other Anglosphere countries). Isn’t that what Echelon is about? I’d also always assumed that all social media networks would voluntarily be being monitored in the same way. Incidentally, they – esp. Facebook – also seem replete with (voluntarily, paid or retired-and-paid?) people who seem to have all day and night to advocate US foreign policy in every way they can.

    It’s good, though, that this whistleblower has come out and laid out the formalised mechanics of it. Sadly, it seems to me that many intelligent people in this country seem to have accepted the snooping security state as normative and necessary and are happy to be monitored. Among the (normatively successfully brainwashed) intelligent ‘middle classes’ (usually proletarians who inaccurately identify themselves with the bourgeoisie they watch on their TV screens) of the UK, you see, rationalisation and the assumption of the beneficence and reasonableness of authority is all-important and in general, dissent is conflated with psychological immaturity.

  150. So many people regard what Edward Snowden has revealed as a self-evident truth – whether they think it right or wrong that the US and others should engage in so much unauthorized snooping – that the only crime he can be guilty of is that of the small boy in the crowd shouting out that the Emperor has no clothes (or is wrapped in stolen garments) – lesé majesté. That is, however, usually only a crime in absolute monarchies or the more brutal dictatorships. Which role does Obama aspire to? – or is he reconciled to doing a strip tease of all his values in the full glare of global publicity?

  151. I agree, Iain.

  152. And yet…

    Another view, from rightwing libertarian, Lila Rajiva. One senses she dosn’t trust Snowden. Lila’s work is definitely worth a read.

    “… manufactured “dissent” and intelligence-funded “revelations” that everyone already knows endorsed by that lovable mouthpiece, Glenn Greenwald…whose general point of view I otherwise endorse.” Lila Rajiva.

    http://mindbodypolitic.com/

  153. A good read there Suhayl, thank you.

    One interesting piece linked from that, an old article (from 2004) in Counterpunch by one Stephen Green:

    “Many individuals with strong attachments to foreign countries have served the U.S. Government with honor and distinction, and will certainly do so in the future. The highest officials in our executive and legislative branches should, however, take great care when appointments are made to posts involving sensitive national security matters. Appointees should be rejected who have demonstrated, in their previous government service, a willingness to sacrifice U.S. national security interests for those of another country, or an inability to distinguish one from the other.”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/02/28/neo-cons-israel-and-the-bush-administration/

    Traitors such as Perle, Feith, Wolfowitz and the rest of the PNAC mob, this article shows had been betraying American interests blatantly, right from the beginning of their careers in which they can only have been given a leg-up by already well-placed Israeli assets.

    One can only be concerned too at the preponderance of Israel-firsters in front rank British politics and the incalculable number in unelected unseen lesser roles in critical areas who’ve wormed their way in from the outset, with the express purpose of betrayal.

  154. Seems like the Agency and Bureau have been involved in the usual turf wars in Hawaii, and I have been brought into the battle because of the FBI’s failures in handling the Boston bombing.

    The Bureau knew so much about the Boston bombers that it should have had them, like the 9/11 bombers, under the tightest surveillance – what should have prevented both tragedies. Instead, though, the Boston Resident in Charge, Richard DesLauriers, compounded the recent disaster by having two agents, helped by ones from the Massachusetts State Police assassinate Ibragim Todashev when he threatened to tell all while under their harsh interrogation.

    For these excesses, DesLauriers has been forced to retire from the Bureau, and Director Robert Mueller has tried to deflect the damage by telling Congress that the 9/11 suicide bombings could have been prevented if proper surveillances had been conducted = a dig at George Twnet’s CIA for not sharing crucial info about them.

    In Hawaii, the shoe seems to have been on the other foot when the Bureau didn’t inform the Agency about the spying for China’s Ministry of State Security by defense contractor Ben Bishop. Bishop was caught in a honey-trap by a 27-year-old sex beauty aka Person 1. Bishop met her at a military conference, and during their liaisons told her all about the new missiles and weapons for dealing with Beijing on the Pacific rim.

    It was only late in that game that the Agency learned that she was also servicing the much younger Edward Snowden when Bishop could keep up. When the Agency learned what Snowden was telling her, it forced him to tell the media, and now he is on his way to a life in prison.

    And I was brought into the picture when photographer Steven Nickerson learned of his case, so much like Gareth Williams’s, and got the Denver Post interested in the similarity – what the Bureau’s repeated calls to me were hoping would prove that I am working for the Chinese too.

  155. Changed my mind about the last bit above – i.e., handlers forced him to reveal what he did.

    He did it to get back at them, figuring if he just disappeared, he would be forced to remain there for the rest of his like – like what happened to similar spy David Hemler when he defected to Sweden just before the Palme shooting. Hemler has been there ever since – 29 years in all.

    This makes Snowden both a spy and a whistleblower.

  156. No specific mention of MI5 sharing everything or even anything there, Craig. Do they play a closed executive action planned game which can lead everyone else?

    Bravo, the MOD. Chiefs with more intelligence than muscle is long overdue in leading ruling and reigning positions.

  157. On a lighter note, the name ‘Edward Snowden’ sounds like a slightly disreputable member of the British Royal Family, the protagonist from a romantic novel set in a manor house (“Oh, Edward, I think of you all the time, she breathed, as the top button of her blouse came undone…”), or a butler, perhaps.

  158. Sorry, quotation marks messed-up. Obviously getting carried away with the thought of that silken blouse…

  159. I see that Maria I. LaGanga of The Los Angeles Times has an article, connecting the spying apparently by defense contractor Ben Bishop with that of Edward Snowden. They both worked out of the same facility in Hawaii, and it seems that Snowden improved upon that of Bishop – i.e. relying upon technical means to obtain all the information that he intended to leakThe Washington Post and The Guardian rather than Person 1 who might have sent it along to China’s Ministry of State Security, thanks to the apparent honey-trap she had developed with Bishop.

    The puzzling problems with LaGanga’s claims are these:

    (1) Why has not Bishop been indited for his alleged crimes?

    (2) Why has not the alleged honey.trapper even been arrested?

    (3) And why is LaGanga so sure that Snowden has acted alone?

    Looks to me like an ongoing mission to catch more spies while both the Agency and the Bureau are most ecomonical with the truth.

  160. ‘Snowden told him to go to a specific location on the third floor of the hotel and ask loudly for directions to a restaurant. Greenwald assumed Snowden was lurking in the background, listening in.

    They went to a room that, Greenwald recalled, contained a large fake alligator. Snowden made himself known. He had told Greenwald that “I would know it was him because he would be carrying a Rubik’s Cube”.’ The Guardian.

    Were they all wearing beige-coloured trench coats? It all sounds a bit cheesy. But no doubt this is tradecraft. Dead-drops, brush-pasts, men pausing at a specific point, removing their trilbies and wiping their brows with pink silk handkerchiefs. On which note,

    SPY NO. 1: “DOES ANYONE KNOW THE WAY TO AMARILLO?”

    SPY NO 2: “YES, IT IS RAINING TODAY IN TBLISI.”

    SPY NO. 1: “YET THEY SAY IT NEVER RAINS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.”

    SPY NO 2: “THE NEAREST FISH ‘N’ SHIP SHOP IS NORTH OF THE RIVER.”

  161. Just lost another long post about the Snowden case being another example of the Bureau and Agency competing with one another over who should be the spycatchers and who the coppers = what caused the 9/11 tragedy – from my screen because of some network interruption, thanks apparently to our good friends at NSA/GCHQ, and I shall not risk more time by repeating it in detail.

  162. “Intelligence officials have insisted agents do not listen in on Americans’ telephone conversations. And they maintain the internet communications surveillance programme, reportedly code-named Prism, targeted only non-Americans located outside of the US.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22920123

    Who are worst, those telling the lies, or the BBC reporting it as it was the gospel truth ?

    From way back;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ux1hpLvqMw&feature=player_embedded

  163. Found Edward Snowden telling the WP’s Barton Gelman in an interview that whistleblowers before him “….had been destroyed by the experience” most revealing.

    While Gelman considered the claim just a bit of hyperbole, Snowden was obviously most serious about it, and researchers should at least show him the courtesy of trying to determine who he was alluding to.

    The most obvious examples are similar whistleblowers MI6/GCHQ agent Gareth Williams and his associate at GCHQ Gudrun Loftus.
    He was poisoned by something like death cap mushrooms when he went on the rampage over the set-up of the Manhattan 11 as Russian agents, and she was pushed down the stairs outside the Senior Common Room at St. John’s College, Oxford after she decided to carry on his whistleblowing activities.

    Snowden obviously knew about their fate, even likely having been engaged from NSA in hacking the lap tops, especially that of pin-up girl Anna Chapman, which so infuriated Williams.

    Little wonder if that is the case, the Bureau is so eager to connect me to MoSS through the activities of deceased photographer Steven Nickerson. He must have gone wild over the photographic possibilities of where and how they died.

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