War Criminals on TV

by craig on January 13, 2014 11:15 am in Uncategorized

Seeing Tony Blair speaking at Ariel Sharon’s Funeral – one war criminal eulogising another – was so horrifying it has jolted this blog back out of retirement.  There may be no justice, but there can be truth.

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267 Comments

  1. Blair wearing a Kipa……. ”He was the peoples war criminal”

  2. Welcome back Craig. Hope you are feeling better.

  3. Welcome back! I have just been reading the Catholic Orangemen of Togo, fantastic!!

  4. Beeston Regis

    13 Jan, 2014 - 11:54 am

    Sickening spectacle of that man kissing arse.

  5. Glad you are back three months is a long time.

  6. I knew you wouldn’t be able to resist – welcome back…!

  7. Anthony Gratrex

    13 Jan, 2014 - 12:32 pm

    Great to have you back Craig.

  8. Welcome back Craig.

    Does anyone know why Blair look more and more shifty every time he makes an appearance? I would assume his conscience is playing up, but then I remembered he doesn’t have one.

  9. Every criminal, Blair pontificating cloud has a welcome, responsive lining. Great to see you back blogging for truth and justice, Craig.

    John

  10. Good to hear from you, Craig!

  11. Rhisiart Gwilym

    13 Jan, 2014 - 1:45 pm

    Stay, Craig. You’re greatly missed when not active. And you’re right: shocking, beyond-satire hideousness around the Sharon funeral. B’liar in a kippah, for god’s sake! He could teach the Israelis chutzpah.

  12. So pleased to hear you again Craig and hope you, Nadira and family are all well. You have been very much missed.

    A belated Happy New Year to one and all.

    Some of us have been ‘meeting’ over at AlcAnon’s blog, which he kindly set up.
    http://squonk.tk/blog/

  13. I like John Hilley’s comment to Rusbridger

    It is tantalising to speculate that the pretensions of a paper which has spent so much of its editorial life equivocating over the criminally powerful may have robbed its readership of its greatest chance for truth.

    in reply to

    Ariel Sharon: legacy of division
    It is tantalising to speculate that the illness of a man who had spent so much of his life at war may have robbed the region of its greatest chance for peace
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/12/ariel-sharon-legacy-of-division

  14. Craig. It’s nice to hear that you’re alive and haven’t been savaged by a pack of black dog days. Even though public life resembles a cesspool one has to force oneself to live as if it isn’t. It’s nobel to resist the temptation to allow oneself to be beaten down. Justice is probably something devine. We, mere mortals, only aim for truth, and to do that we created laws, which are the next best thing, at least as good as we can do, not being devine.

    Blair is of course an almost completely corrupt creature who is also rather pathetic at the same time. His slimy, salesman, talkshow host, character shines through the makeup. His tawdry need to be accepted and loved by great and powerful men, is creepy. His low desire to serve them and their narrow interests makes one’s skin shiver with revulsion. The sickly, smiling, servility; his little eyes shining as he licks his lying lips and thinks about the next huge fee he’s going to pocket, yuk!

    Craig. You, despite your all too human frailties, are worth an army of Blairs.

  15. Seeing Blair in any capacity remains horrifying.
    .
    This is not meant as an apology for Sharon’s past crimes, but I felt he turned out to be a more pragmatic Israeli prime minister than anyone anticipated, and I think he genuinely hoped to reach a new peace deal. He disengaged from Gaza, confronted settlers in a way few Israeli PMs before or since have done, and oversaw a general de-escalation of tensions with the likes of Lebanon and Syria.
    .
    Things have been appreciably worse since he left office, especially under Netanyahu. I think there’s a good question for scholars, what might have been for the Middle East peace process had Sharon’s time coincided with a different American administration. The Bush administration was at its worst just as Sharon was sticking it to the Israeli far right, and winning politically.

  16. Keith Crosby

    13 Jan, 2014 - 3:17 pm

    Smoke Bliar a kippah, he’ll be back for expenses.

    Still here then? It cheers me up no end. ;O)

  17. Craig, good to see you’ve posted again. I’ve missed you.

    pete, 12:50 pm:

    “Does anyone know why Blair look more and more shifty every time he makes an appearance?”

    It could be because of this:

    Exclusive: Devastating dossier on ‘abuse’ by UK forces in Iraq goes to International Criminal Court

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-devastating-dossier-on-abuse-by-uk-forces-in-iraq-goes-to-international-criminal-court-9053735.html

    No, no conscience, but a good sense of when the weasels are closing in…

  18. Welcome back, Craig.

  19. tony dhillon

    13 Jan, 2014 - 3:49 pm

    welcome back Craig. You were missed.

  20. Jon (the mod one)

    13 Jan, 2014 - 4:15 pm

    Let me add my voice to the “welcome backs” – you are missed, Craig. I like to think that you have some spare writing capacity for the blog after working on your book!

  21. Three months – and finally a new post! Hope you’re well, and that the next post doesn’t take quite so long.

    Happy New Year everyone!

  22. Hooray!

  23. Good to see you back Craig.

    And glad to see you’re still modding Jon. Unless you mean you have acquired a retro scooter with excessive wing mirrors.

  24. Welcome back!

    Some developments on the Julian Assange situation posted by Arbed over at Squonk last night. Plus some reminders of Palestinian refugee camp massacres from Dr Ang Swee Chai earlier in the thread.

  25. Guess Tony has shed the sheep’s clothing and only the devoted Zionist remains.
    Every bit as evil and pro Isreal as the man he eulogises.
    He knows no shame. Hasn’t for many millions of pounds.
    The truth is catching up,hopefully justice too.
    Great hearing from you craig. Too much going on not to read your comments.
    Mod: to keep this blog from getting all shill & trolled up, limit the number of posts.

  26. http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/1/13/282000/default/v2/tony-blair-1-329×437.jpg
    Former prime minister Tony Blair was painted in 2008 by Phil Hale for £6,000.

    Photoshopped by Julian Gibson
    http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/355/9/f/blair_killer_by_juliangibson-d6yr9wk.jpg

    Painter Alastair Adams. Cost to the taxpayer unknown. The portrait is hanging in the National Portrait Gallery.
    http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2013/dec/20/tony-blair-portrait-national-portrait-gallery-alastair-adams

  27. Mary 13 Jan, 2014 – 5:20 pm
    “Cost to the taxpayer unknown.”

    Well the Blair painting is 48″ * 36″ which according to the artist’s price list would cost about £11,500. Maybe he doubles the price for war criminals.

    It really is a grim painting made all the better by Gibson’s addition.

  28. The link to the ‘moody picture’ of Tony Blair by Phil Dale was copied from the set shown alongside this article.

    The troughers have no shame.

    MPs Spend £250k On Portraits Of Themselves
    Politicians are criticised for spending thousands of pounds of taxpayers’ money on a huge “vanity project”.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1194397/mps-spend-250k-on-portraits-of-themselves

    ‘MPs have spent almost £250,000 of taxpayers’ money on portraits of themselves, it has been revealed.

    The pictures include a painting of Labour MP Diane Abbott for £11,750, a £10,000 image of Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith and an £8,000 portrait of Minister Without Portfolio Ken Clarke.

    Other portraits include a £4,000 oil painting of Foreign Secretary William Hague, a £10,346 picture of Sir Menzies Campbell and a £6,000 triptych of Tony Blair, Charles Kennedy and William Hague.

    A bronze of Margaret Thatcher was unveiled in 2007 at a cost of £80,000.

    The former Tory leader Michael Howard sat for a £9,400 painting, while former prime minister Sir John Major was depicted in a £6,000 bronze bust.

    The artworks have all been commissioned by the Speaker’s Advisory Committee on Works of Art, a cross-party committee, since 1995.’

  29. Aaaah, Dianne Abbott is starkers!

  30. BrianFujisan

    13 Jan, 2014 - 7:48 pm

    Ahh…Great to see you Back Craig…Hope 2014 is kind to you all… I see from over at Alcanon’s Blog that Emily is a talented Poet.

    Amazing how many old regulars have Sprung up in an instant, but great to see…Unlike the sight of Blair, and Cameron, and Bush, And H. Clinton….Ect ect ect…

  31. BrianFujisan

    13 Jan, 2014 - 7:50 pm

    Phil Lol…

    Should that Link about Abbott have a warning attached….Yikes

  32. Someone Thanks. Yes I knew. He should walk and take the rest of the BBC rotten eggs with him.

    Phil. All I can say is that ‘she’s no oil painting’! LOL

  33. Clark at 3.19pm

    More on the ICC dossier. Some of those named must be feeling hot under their collars. I don’t understand why Blair is not being included in the list for possible arraignment. He was after all the prime mover for the war and throughout all those terrible years. Look at Iraq now.

    Iraq: “Devastating” Dossier Lodged with the International Criminal Court
    British War Crimes Alleged

    by Felicity Arbuthnot / January 13th, 2014

    A “devastating” two hundred and fifty page document, “The Responsibility of UK Officials for War Crimes Involving Systematic Detainee Abuse in Iraq from 2003-2008″, has been “presented to the International Criminal Court, and could result in some of Britain’s leading defence figures facing prosecution for “systematic war crimes” the (London) Independent on Sunday has revealed.

    /..
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/01/iraq-devastating-dossier-lodged-with-the-international-criminal-court/

  34. Welcome back Craig. And Happy New (Referendum) Year.

  35. Good to see you back, Craig, happy returns to all and our best wishes to the family.

    I bet you could not resist the lure of war criminals, alive or dead.
    One had to withdraw from today’s news coverage, the BBC made London look like the neigbourhood of Khan Younis.

    Our war envoy to the middle east looks more and more troubled as Iraq descends into civil war, shame on him and all he stands for.

  36. Mary at 8:20 pm: maybe the political instigators have to be dealt with later, when it can be shown that the military people were doing as they were told or with approval. I don’t know, but I hope so. I suppose some clues may be found in past cases at the International Criminal Court.

  37. Good to see your return Craig.
    Hope is all good.

  38. A Guid New Year to you and yours Craig. We really have missed you, so welcome back. It is my contention that your views have never been more relevant, especially now that world events have moved so much in the short time you have been away.
    For instance, I would love to hear your views on the sea of crocodile tears shed over Nelson Mandela’s death.
    BTW. Scotland needs you like never before in 2014. We will welcome you back with open arms, to help spearhead a new political renaissance.

  39. Welcome back, Craig, and Happy New Year.

    Just cross-posting from the Assange thread with a very intriguing development, if it’s true:

    This post on a Flashback forum dedicated to Anna Ardin (not the main one on JA’s case) says that she has withdrawn her complaint. It’s dated 5th January.

    https://www.flashback.org/sp46889563

    I’ll try to investigate whether this is true. If she has, then this may also factor in to yesterday’s stage-managed “debate” in SvD about closing down the investigation, a good summary write-up of which appears here:

    http://assangeinswedenbook.com/2014/01/14/swedish-prosector-asks-for-assange-case-to-be-closed-2/

  40. You can listen to this live. Don’t you just love the name of the committee room. Will we ever be shot of her name, her memory and her legacy?

    Tuesday 14 January 2014, 2.30pm, Thatcher Room, Portcullis House

    2.30pm House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee
    Subject: Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories: prospects for 2014

    Witnesses
    At 2.30pm
    Professor Manuel Hassassian, Head of the Palestinian Mission in London

    At 3.10pm
    H.E. Daniel Taub, Israeli Ambassador to the UK

    At 3.50pm
    Professor Rosemary Hollis, Professor of Middle East Policy Studies, City University, London
    Dr Ahron Bregman, Department of War Studies, Kings College London
    Professor Yezid Sayigh, Carnegie Endowment Middle East Center, Beirut

    The membership of the Foreign Affairs Committee

    Richard Ottaway MP (Chair) Conservative
    Mr John Baron MP Conservative
    Rt Hon Sir Menzies Campbell QC MP Liberal Democrats
    Rt Hon Ann Clwyd MP Labour
    Mike Gapes MP Labour
    Mark Hendrick MP Labour
    Sandra Osborne Labour
    Andrew Rosindell MP Conservative
    Mr Frank Roy MP Labour
    Rt Hon Sir John Stanley MP Conservative
    Rory Stewart MP Conservative

    If you wish to listen to this live, go to http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Live.aspx about a few minutes before 2.30pm. Scroll down in the bottom right hand panel until you see this: 2.30pm HoC Foreign Affairs Committee – Thatcher Room

  41. Ottoway’s register of interests. Says it all. Note the Fox Werritty connection.

    Overseas visits

    9-11 July 2007, visit to the USA to attend seminars and meetings with elected US officials and policy forums. My return flight and accommodation were financed by Atlantic Bridge. Entry to which the rectification procedure has been applied. See paragraph 108 of the Guide to the Rules.
    (Registered 20 October 2011)
    Entry to which the rectification procedure has been applied. See paragraph 108 of the Guide to the Rules.
    Name of donor: Conservative Friends of Israel
    Address of donor: 45B Westbourne Terrace, London W2 3UR
    Amount of donation (or estimate of the probable value): £1,600
    Destination of visit: Israel
    Date of visit: 24-28 November 2011
    Purpose of visit: my wife and I went on a fact-finding political delegation to Israel and the West Bank.
    (Registered 16 December 2011)

  42. Roger Bourgein

    14 Jan, 2014 - 8:56 am

    Your incise analysis has always blown the fog of disinformation away for me, revealing the perspective of clear thinking. So useful. Thank you.

  43. Good to see another post from you Craig, and to know that now Facebook says you are officially married.

    Yes, Blair eulogising Sharon is just about as sickening as Cameron eulogising Nelson Mandela.

    Arbed and Squonk, thanks for the update in developments in the Assange case. Thank God a Swedish newspaper has at last started talking sense on this subject.

    Happy New Year everyone.

  44. I appreciate your return to blog-writing, Mr. C. And hope you’re feeling better. Do keep us up to date on your views of the corporate disinformation system (which continues to loose sympathisers, of course, because of its innate false nature).

  45. This sort of thing just confirms the analysis that power makes the rules – Blair and Sharon aren’t considered war criminals officially because they are on the same side as those with most power.

    If the tables were reversed then they’d be treated as war criminals, but those on the other side who are now (rightly) called war criminals would be eulogised.

    Politics operates on the principle of ‘Might Makes Right’, it always has. Just sometimes it disguises itself in a cloak of democracy (or divine right, or some sort of justification of being the vanguard of the proletariat or whatever Stalinists use as justification).

  46. Oh and welcom back.

  47. So glad you’re back.

  48. Uzbek in the UK

    14 Jan, 2014 - 12:20 pm

    Welcome back Mr Murray. It was indeed sad thing to watch. Truth without justice is preety much useless and in many cases even dangerous.

    On the matter of Uzbekistan; you have been missing (at least on this blog) some very interesting developments with regards to Gulnara Karimova, her sister Lola and cheif of bloody SNB Rustam Inoyatov. It seems that old bloody dog (karimov) is out of steam. Something is goiing to happen there in a few years time. It is not justice, not even truth but nature that will bring Karimovs down.

  49. B.Liar’s tribute. Have your sick buckets at the ready.

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-01-13/blairs-tribute-to-sharon-a-giant-of-this-land/

  50. Glad to have you back Craig – I hope your absence was all due to work on the book and temporary Ashes-induced mental trauma and that all is well with you and your family.

    I was going to wait for you to comment again before telling how much I was moved by ‘Murder In Samakand’, which I borrowed from the RNIB Talking Book Service. Looking forward to the new one tremendously.

    Cheers and a happy new year.

  51. One of ZBC’s finest stenographers-to-power on his career highlights, Jon Sopel. You can see how it’s done, the embedding, the shared journeying and the conveying of the messages.

    He’s just been in Dubai crawling round Al Maktoum.

    ‘A senior journalist at the BBC, Jon Sopel is used to rubbing shoulders with world leaders and influential personalities. The day I interviewed him at the BBC New Broadcasting House in London, former Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd was on his show talking about issues such as spying on the Indonesian president and the impact of the rise of China. By the time you read this, he will be in the UAE to interview His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Ruler of Dubai and the Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE, for his daily BBC World News programme Global.’

    http://gulfnews.com/life-style/people/for-jon-sopel-holidays-mean-breaking-news-1.1275689

    References within to B.Liar

    ‘He covered a lot of UK politics. “I would travel when the prime minister would travel and that was great. John Major, and then Tony Blair. So I travelled with John Major on his aircraft, and travelled with Tony Blair.”’

    ‘Who was the most difficult to interview? “Each of them presented their own challenges,” he says. “David Cameron, John Major, Tony Blair could be extremely charming. [..] I find that interesting, I tell Sopel, because Blair and Cameron have a lot of negativity attached to them.’

  52. War Criminals Gather to Honor War Criminal
    Paying Tribute To A Genocidaire

    By Prof. Francis A. Boyle

    January 13, 2014 “Information Clearing House – The United Nations General Assembly condemned the 1982 Massacre at Sabra and Shatilla as “genocide.” So what the world is witnessing now are innumerable government leaders, politicians, pundits, professors, intellectuals, media figures and the State of Israel paying formal tribute to a genocidaire–one who has committed genocide.

    Obviously, in their opinion the slogan “Never again!” does not apply to protect the Palestinians.

    Professor Francis A. Boyle is an international law expert and served as Legal Advisor to the Palestine Liberation Organization and Yasser Arafat on the 1988 Palestinian Declaration of Independence

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37367.htm

  53. Chris Taylor

    14 Jan, 2014 - 2:10 pm

    Welcome back Craig. Your return has helped put my own black dog back on the leash. Keep up the good work. You have been widely missed and should never underestimate your influence. Thank you.

  54. Arbed, did you discover anything further about that tweet. Does it actually say that Anna Ardin has dropped the charge, or is it speculating that she should drop the charges because 12 months in the Ecuadorian embassy is long enough punishment for rape. Google, while better than nothing, is not a perfect translator. I would value a word for word English translation.

  55. Arbed it’s all right, I’ve just checked the Anna Ardin thread.

  56. MerkinOnParis

    14 Jan, 2014 - 2:53 pm

    Good to see you back.

  57. Really chuffed to see You post again….PLEASE continue.
    B-liar is beyond the pale.
    Kevin

  58. The war criminals are a small club whose members doubtless feel (as they should) that if they don’t hang together they’ll likely hang separately. So they hang together and disgust the discerning. And after all, having put themselves beyond the pale of decent folk, they can only socialize comfortably with other WCs.

  59. Welcome back Craig and a Happy New Yeat to you and yours. I’ve missed you

  60. Merkin on Paris

    And delighted to see you back too. Someone told me you had shuffled off this mortal coil. Delighted it’s not true!

    Thanks to everyone for their good wishes.

  61. Welcome back I do hope you will keep posting. Please could your moderators be given the authority to exclude the boring trolls, they add nothing but just get in the way, only the really boring ones, the less boring ones may help to stimulate debate.

  62. A question to HMG, as a member of and contributor to the EU.

    What does HM Government say to explain why our tax money is going to fund such a vile and sickening research programme?

    PAJU (Palestinian and Jewish Unity) # 674, January 10th, 2014

    The European Union and Israel Plan to Manufacture Drones for the Purpose of Repression

    The EU and a large Israeli military contractor are co-funding research to build drones that can stop moving boats and cars. The three-year-long Aeroceptor project, according to its own literature, aims to help law enforcement authorities to stop “non-cooperative vehicles in both land and sea scenarios by means of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.”

    Israel’s ministry of public security, global weapons manufacturer Israel Aerospace Industries and Israeli-based Rotem Technological Solutions are among the list of 12 participants, most of which are based in the EU.

    German Green MEP Ska Keller told this website that the Aeroceptor projector is a first in the EU because previously EU drones were developed only for surveillance and not for interception.

    “Are we going to play Battleships now with drones? With the help of the Israeli defence industry?” said Keller, referring to a popular children’s game; Keller is also the Green group’s migration and civil liberties spokesperson.

    The Aeroceptor project received just over €4.8 million in total funding, with the European Commission pitching in €3.5 million. The remainder comes from the consortium’s participants.

    Available project information also does not specify if such drones would eventually fly over EU member states, in Israeli airspace, or in both.

    For its part, the commission said Israel is legally entitled to take part in EU funded projects.

    But it did not respond to queries on why Israel is participating or why the project is receiving EU funding in the first place.

    Adapted from ‘ L’Union européenne et Israël veulent fabriquer des drones de repression,’ written by Nicolaj Nielsen, from an article translated by Info-Palestine and published at:

    http://cjpp5.over-blog.com/article-euobserver-com-l-union-europeenne-et-israel-veulent-fabriquer-des-drones-de-repression-par-nicolaj-n-115361369.html

    Distributed by PAJU (Palestinian and Jewish Unity
    http://WWW.PAJUMONTREAL.ORG

  63. Paul Barbara

    15 Jan, 2014 - 3:33 am

    Ed, Sharon was a monster; I believe he only removed the settlers from Gaza to make it easier to lay siege and bombard the area, and to mute International protests re settlement expansion elsewhere; as for overseeing a general de-escalation of tensions with the likes of Lebanon, remember Sabra & Shatilla.
    Here is a very good blog post by an Israeli, linked to in ‘The Other Israel’ (TOI): ‘Sharon and me’ http://adam-keller2.blogspot.co.il/2014/01/sharon-and-me.html

    It does show that there has been disgust and brave campaigns against Israeli atrocities by Israelis, including young school children.
    Pity about the ending; as a professed Christian, I certainly would not be so forgiving!

  64. WELCOME BACK CRAIG

    I’ve been looking for excuses to visit East Kent, with bids on a couple of electrical items on ebay 180 + miles away.
    As for Sharon:- It’s an ill wind, as they say.

  65. While you’ve been away, your prediction that Western nations would try to back-track and maintain Assad in power have proved accurate. By the same token the distrust of the Syrian Opposition by Political Islam has also been justified. Without pressure from Political Islam, the Syrian Opposition might have gone to Geneva and Assad might have gained a toe-hold to power in Geneva with another of his pathetic promises of change.
    Not going to happen. No way.

    And meantime, the inventors of the quenelle, (sounds a bit like Chanel but more fragrant) have been ramming the anti-Zionist-”side” message home. (If home is the backside of Western politicians) The lewd, anti-Zio-fascist salute graphically illustrates the way the Zio-banksters have shafted Western Democracy into pouring resources into the War against Islam.

    Vive La France- La France moi. they have succeeded in sending up our political elites, which here in the UK always manage to take our V signs as a sign of approval. Thanks to Craig for returning to explain it to them in the context of Share and Blaron.

    Am I ashamed as a Muslim of the vulgarity and political incorrectness of the gesture? Yes, a little, but I am absolutely thrilled to the core that a popular and patriotic message has been given to the Zio-elite austerity- mongers by our lovely French neighbours.

    It makes Tory anti-Europe politicians look CO2 mad. It’s too dangerous to use foam on these kinds of fires.

  66. Ariel Sharon Was a ‘Brutal Killer’ : Noam Chomsky
    14 January 2014

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37370.htm

    “He was a brutal killer; he had one fixed idea in mind which drove him all his life: a greater Israel, as powerful as possible, as few Palestinians as possible. …” Noam Chomsky

    We discuss Sharon’s legacy with three guests: Noam Chomsky, world-renowned political dissident, linguist, author and Institute Professor Emeritus at Massachusetts Institute of Technology; Rashid Khalidi, Edward Said Professor of Arab Studies at Columbia University; and Avi Shlaim, Emeritus Professor of International Relations at Oxford University, widely regarded as one of the world’s leading scholars on the Israeli-Arab conflict.

    ~~~

    Instead of ‘few Palestinians as possible’ I would say that Sharon’s real aim was to eliminate and/or evict them.

  67. British war criminals:

    “The head of the army, General Sir Peter Wall, ex-defence secretary Geoff Hoon and former defence minister Adam Ingram are among those named in the 250-page dossier”

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/jan/12/iraq-war-crimes

  68. O/T This is an old one going back a bit. No surprise though.

    No action against Lib Dem Rennard over sex harassment claims
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25747951

    See Rennard Conumdrum http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/02/rennard-conundrum/

  69. O/T I believe that Craig and Daniel Ellsberg are friends and thought this of interest.

    Edward Snowden will join Freedom of the Press Foundation board
    •NSA whistleblower will join the group’s board in February 2014

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/14/edward-snowden-freedom-press-foundation-board

    ‘Snowden has been indicted by the federal government and lives in Russia where he was granted temporary asylum. The Freedom of the Press Foundation told the New York Times it consulted lawyers to make sure Snowden’s role would not create legal problems for the group, which has non profit status.

    Daniel Ellsberg, the former military analyst who released the Pentagon Papers, co-founded the organization in 2012. Ellsberg said in a release that Snowden “is the quintessential American whistleblower, and a personal hero of mine.”

    “Accountability journalism can’t be done without the courageous acts exemplified by Snowden, and we need more like him,” Ellsberg said.

    The San Francisco-based group’s founding board also includes John Cusack, journalist Xeni Jardin and two recipients of the NSA documents, journalists Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras.’

  70. “Please could your moderators be given the authority to exclude the boring trolls, they add nothing but just get in the way, only the really boring ones, the less boring ones may help to stimulate debate.”

    I think if we avoid creating an “us and them” atmosphere with the hostility it brings, be tolerant, even of those we find boring and respect their right to an opinion, start with a new slate not where we left off, things will be fine.

    Otherwise the place will go to hell in a hand basket again and there aint a blind thing any moderator can do about it.

  71. … or maybe we could have a thread specially dedicated for boring trolls, and they would be allowed to hang out there, with the blessing of the mods. In the meantime, the rest of us could have a rip-roaring conversation on the other threads.

  72. “… or maybe we could have a thread specially dedicated for boring trolls, and they would be allowed to hang out there, with the blessing of the mods. In the meantime, the rest of us could have a rip-roaring conversation on the other threads.”

    When will you ever learn.

  73. Not ‘computer say no’ but ‘EU Parliament say no’.

    Far-right politician calls for moment of silence for Sharon at European Parliament. Parliament says ‘no’

    Adam Horowitz on January 14, 2014
    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/01/politician-european-parliament.html

  74. Would it be debating to ask whether Guano’s support for the “quenelle” crossed the acceptable boundary between anti-zionism and anti Semitism? Or would such a view just run counter to the prevailing ethos of many here, who do not recognise such a distinction and feel that pointing it out when it occurs just amounts to trolling?

  75. O/T, but wanted to say thanks to John Goss for this excellent op-ed article:

    Will Sweden Drop the Charges Against Assange?
    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2014/01/15/will-sweden-drop-the-charges-against-assange/

    Cool balloons ;)

  76. The humour bypass operation was successful then, Fred?

  77. Thanks for posting my article link Arbed. Without your previous links I could not have written it. So double thanks. You’re really on the button. Keep up the good work.

  78. Re: UK war criminals

    It seems to me unimaginable that the likes of Hoon will ever be in the dock. His prosecution would endanger the bloody compact between warmongering politicians and those who make money from war. I suspect the ICC will collapse before this happens. My best guess is the ICC survives (even more discredited) and Hoon moves to the US.

    But very interesting and I hope it keeps the war criminals awake at night. Anyone found the actual report which I thought was public but can’t find.

  79. Jan 13 2014

    How the Big Papers Remember Ariel Sharon
    By Peter Hart

    Reading the pieces in the Sunday editions of the New York Times and the Washington Post (3/12/14) about the death of former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, one gets the sense that reporters were aware of some of Sharon’s bloodiest history – but mostly kept that out of their accounts of his life.

    /..
    http://www.fair.org/blog/2014/01/13/how-the-big-papers-remember-ariel-sharon/

    Well they would wouldn’t they!

  80. thanks for pointing out ESLO, that Nicolas Anelka’s ‘quenelle’ has not brought him into disrepute with the British FA and or his club West Brom, nor have the many friends of Israel, MP’s who supping on our taxes to divert British foreing policy, made much fuss about it. It is an indication of how much is possible in this countr.The FA is unreconstructed homophobic and uncontrolled financially, a sop to betting syndicates it should be scrapped and reformed.

    If he would had made such a guesture playing in Germany, he would have acted unlawful. I despise public expressions such as this, regardless of whether they come from Anelka or from anybody else, as they are giving voice to fascists who argue with each other, but are essentially out to commit the same attrocities and justify them to the world with some inane crap, are essentially supressing views that are contrare to their regime.

    ow=1&client=firefox-a&hs=zUC&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&tbnid=UM4SgveoUrHmVM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nydailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fremembering-ariel-sharon-gallery-1.1576341&docid=FNYvTMARA8L5SM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1576346.1389466054!%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Fgallery_1200%2Fariel-sharon.jpg&w=1200&h=953&ei=QtjWUvq-OeOU7QbkqYGACw&zoom=1&ved=0COcCEIQcMF84ZA&iact=rc&dur=3849&page=15&ndsp=14&biw=1152&bih=579

    That said, without engaging the children, brought up under these blinkered, religiously embedded and futile philosophies, in debate, we will never bring peace to either of them or the world.

  81. Great to see you back again Craig. I am one of many who would love to see you blogging regularly again. Don’t let some of the idiotic comments on here or elsewhere put you off!

  82. ESLO
    So it’s politically correct for Cameron and his Zio-fascist-bankster cronies to start a war in Syria by UK army snipers and politically incorrect to criticise these madmen?

  83. No Nevermind they are not giving voice to fascists, they are objecting to governments who spy on every single utterance of their citizens, and who co-embezzle the entire wealth of the Western financial system and replace it with printed money, and who deviate the defense resources into a Zionist war against the true faith of Islam.

    You know, the Fascists are the ones who force others into colonial wars caused by bankruptcy. They don’t all have black moustaches and high leather boots on. Oh dear. It’s so confusing for these pre-senile adults to understand.

  84. The word ‘antisemitism’ [in its current form] is an Apartheid word, because it embraces only a select few and excludes all others. Those who use it [in its current form] indirectly or willingly support Apartheid.

  85. Welcome back, Craig, and a happy and prosperous New Year to you and yours.

  86. “If you live in England and do not wish the medical records, of you, your partner and your children being sold to the highest bidder, you must act now.”

    http://dwpexamination.org/forum/general-discussion/take-care-your-care-data-is-about-to-be-sold-using-services-provided-by-atos/#p120178

  87. @Daniel Rich

    “The word ‘antisemitism’ [in its current form] is an Apartheid word, because it embraces only a select few and excludes all others. Those who use it [in its current form] indirectly or willingly support Apartheid.”

    A very common viewpoint often expressed by holocaust deniers – impossible to argue with such idiots/trolls since all they do is redefine terms to suit their arguments rather than engage in proper debate.

  88. Anon - the troll buster

    15 Jan, 2014 - 10:28 pm

    @Guano

    ESLO
    So it’s politically correct for Cameron and his Zio-fascist-bankster cronies to start a war in Syria by UK army snipers and politically incorrect to criticise these madmen?

    This represents another well know troll technique – ignore the questions posed and then create a straw man that you assign to the questioner.

  89. A few days prior to the fat assassin’s death, Jonathan Freedland wrote a semi-glowing portrait. It almost made me puke.

    I’ve just finished re-reading my favourite book of all-time, Murder In Samarkand, so it’s a timely return. Welcome back.

  90. Remember that game you used to play in the amusement arcade at the seaside when you were a kid, where you tried to lift up the toy with the little crane, but it always dropped before you got it to the the chute?

    Well, the future of humanity depends on these Japanese kids winning around 1500 of these toys, one after another, an unbroken series of 1500 wins with no slipsies. Not one!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLvu57X474M#t=36

  91. Welcome back Craig.No doubt you have seen this.http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/20/gulnara-karimova-uzbekistan-first-family

    There was more on the just now..on live 5

  92. Anon Troll Buster

    ESLO’s question was a false-dichotomy flag: anti- Zionism = anti Semitism. True Troll Trash as frequently found on this site.
    Waste of breath to answer true troll trash here or anywhere else.
    So your job must be to Heinekenise the troll trash. Even if it was fresh troll trash, it’s still Zionist Troll trash which the tribe of Zionist trolls come to dump on this blog.

  93. Dave Lawton Lovely jubbly. You beat me to it!

    The Karimov Klan are splitting asunder. Hurray.

    Gulnara Karimova speaks out over infighting in Uzbekistan’s first family
    In rare interview, daughter of President Islam Karimov claims her mother and sister are part of a plot against her, amid jockeying for position in runup to 2015 election
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/20/gulnara-karimova-uzbekistan-first-family

    and

    Gulnara Karimova: Uzbekistan’s singing ‘robber baroness’
    BBC News-42 minutes ago
    A year ago, the daughter of Uzbekistan’s president Islam Karimov was riding high – the head of a business empire, a pop star, she was seen by …
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25742130

    and Papa is not too happy with things either. Feeling a tad insecure maybe?

    Uzbek president warns of growing threats in Central Asia
    14 Jan 2014
    Islam Karimov said rising radicalism and conflict in Afghanistan were among the most alarming dangers linked to a rise in drug-trafficking and …
    http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/161490/uzbek-president-warns-of-growing-threats-in-central-asia.html

  94. @ Anon,

    Q: A very common viewpoint often expressed by holocaust deniers.

    R: Strike 1.

  95. Chelsea Manning Awarded Sam Adams Integrity Prize for 2014

    http://warisacrime.org/content/chelsea-manning-awarded-sam-adams-integrity-prize-2014

    Announcement by Sam Adams Associates for Integrity in Intelligence (SAAII)

    Craig is a previous winner in 2005.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Adams_Award

  96. Would it be possible/fair/collegial to link this blog to Squonk?

    https://squonk.tk/blog/2013/12/06/craig-murrays-blog-reverts-to-2009/

    Hilarity has seemingly returned here, lovwly…

    “They don’t all have black moustaches and high leather boots on. Oh dear. It’s so confusing for these pre-senile adults to understand.”
    ??????

  97. Whatever definition of anti-Semitism Daniel Rich cared to employ the quenelle and its chief proponent clearly fit the definition.

    No Guano – anti Semitism and anti Zionism are not the same thing – it is you and Daniel Rich that are seeking to establish a false equality rather than me trying to create a false dichotomy – the dichotomy is totally real and then trying to divert attention from the point by your distorted thinking as to my views on Syria.

    Apart from Nevermind – I note others continue to sit on the fence.

  98. Lord rennards return to the Lib Dem fold, once again wanting to spread his weight on the unsuspecting party members, literally speaking, will no doubt fire up the imagination of the public to vote for them.

    Hundreds of mothers will now push their offspring to join the Lib Dems and get active under such beneficial leadership, who knows how to divert attention away from its sexist ways covering up alledged harrasment, wont’t they?

    This will destroy the Lib Dems, not to say we should have pity with any of the political parties rapidly loosing support everywhere.

    Leave them standing and organise your own candidates, yawn,…. or don’t talk about it.

  99. WB Craig. I have yet to see, despite raising the subject with three potentially interested media and another player, any reference to what are almost certainly Blair’s shell companies in Gibraltar, and probably intended to disinfect cash transfers further afield. Of Blair in a kippah, eulogising Sharon….words fail me completely.

    NB, counter to the Orthodox account for public consumption, Sharon’s stated intention in evacuating Gaza was to keep the peace process in aspic, not to promote it. This is documented.

  100. “Apart from Nevermind – I note others continue to sit on the fence.”

    Can’t decide which cow pat to tread in.

  101. Fred

    Easy to be anti Zionist and still condemn the quenelle, its chief promoter and other forms of anti-Semitism.

  102. The legacy of Bush and Blair. May they both and their cadres rot in hell.

    http://merryabla64.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/shocking-photos-emerge-showing-u-s-marines-burning-bodies-of-iraqi-insurgents-posing-for-pictures-with-skeletons-and-even-an-enemy-soldiers-remains-being-eaten-by-a-dog-as-pentagon-launches-probe/

    ‘Col. Warren tells TMZ, “The actions that are depicted in these photos are not in any way representative of the honorable, professional service of the 2 1/2 million service members who went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan in the last decade.”’

    Tell that to the marines, Col Warren.

  103. So Mary wishes all the following to rot in hell:

    All members of the US Armed Forces while Bush was in power
    All members of the UK Armed Forces while Blair was in power
    All Republican Party members while Bush was in power
    All Labour Party members while Blair was in power.

    A tad broad brush I would say – but I suspect that Mary would want to add a few more to her hate list?

  104. ESLO
    No, they are not the same thing. That’s why your question deliberately conflated them. Yawn.

  105. Extremely Stupid Lazy Old …. Troll…. Habbabkuk!!!

  106. @Guano

    And meantime, the inventors of the quenelle, (sounds a bit like Chanel but more fragrant) have been ramming the anti-Zionist-”side” message home.

    And I suppose you would say that the inventors behaviours and sickening quotes are not in any way anti-Semitic and in no way conflate anti Semitism and anti Zionism?

  107. Worth catching Josh Fox’s films on fracking, “Gasland”. Part 1 is available now on Utube and Part 2 is out on DVD.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96AEzQYangE

    Native Americans redux.

  108. Thanks for bringing the quenelle to my attention, Hab. I’d never heard of it. I realise now that straightening out my right hand while rubbing my shoulder in order to relieve mouse-induced RSI is in fact the vile action of one whose sympathies lie with Himmler. I really must watch it in future.

    But seriously, Hab, why are you here? You could perhaps save yourself some annoyance by answering clearly, immediately and truthfully. What is your gripe with Craig?

  109. Habba isn’t here yet – I have no gripe with Craig – he has been fairly clear in the past that he expects anti semites and holocaust deniers to be challenged and ridiculed, probably because he believes that they damage and enhance the causes in which he believes. Others here obviously take a different view.

  110. …yet…. And why are you here? As a self-appointed policeman on behalf of the Simon Wiesenthal Foundation? Because that’s what it looks like.

  111. At last, I can again unburden myself on the best blog in town! If I’d known AlcAnon had set one up, I would have been there in a trice.

    Welcome back Craig and all the good guys. Here’s hoping for a frank exchange of views that stays on the right side of the law…

    Avi Shlaim in the Guardian pretty much nailed Sharon, unless I am much mistaken, which is more than possible. That’ll do for a starter…

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/13/ariel-sharon-no-man-of-peace-israel

  112. “The word ‘antisemitism’ [in its current form] is an Apartheid word, because it embraces only a select few and excludes all others.

    Those who use it [in its current form] indirectly or willingly, support Apartheid.”

    a·part·heid – noun

    1. (in the Republic of South Africa) a rigid policy of segregation of the nonwhite population.

    2. any system or practice that separates people according to race, caste, etc.

    Killing the messenger does not change the message.

    ()sponsored by the ‘Free Pollard Now Society of NJ.’

  113. Oh dear. Some sad news.

    Great actor, socialist, peace campaigner and radicalist and only 69. There is a saying that the good die young. Some others are kept alive as corpses for some unknown reason.

    Roger Lloyd Pack, star of Only Fools and Horses, dies aged 69
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-25762006

  114. Uzbek in the UK

    16 Jan, 2014 - 3:40 pm

    As I mentioned earlier this forum has been missing some very important developments in Uzbekistan.

    It seems that major role in Gulnara fall is played by Russians. Among other things Kremlin had not forgotten troubles caused by Karimova to its largest mobile networks – MTS. Russians (current FSB run Russian establishment) still have very tight and powerful connections to Uzbek SNB (former KGB). It is very likely that considering Karimov’s ill health and his (very possible) departure from throne in 2015, Kremlin is trying to secure a loyal successor. One of the key liaisons between Kremlin and SNB at present day is Alisher Usmanov. In her tweets Gulnara mentioned Uslamov’s involvement few times. It is believed that Usmanov will play major role in post-karimov’s Uzbekistan. He will either be given official post in the government (less likely) or will be power broker behind curtains (more likely). In addition to Usmanov there are few other Russian oligarchs of Uzbek origin who are promised high returns by Kremlin for their loyalty to Russia and offered support through official and unofficial channels.

  115. US Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (USACBI)

    Academic Delegation to Palestine Endures 10-Hour Interrogation by Israeli Security

    For Immediate Release:
    On January 12, 2014, a delegation of six academics and a labor activist traveled from Jordan to Palestine through the Israeli checkpoint. The delegation is led by Professor Rabab Abdulhadi of San Francisco State University and is meeting with Palestinian academics to better understand conditions on the ground and to facilitate future collaborations. Four members of the delegation, including Abdulhadi and Professor Junaid Rana of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, were held at the checkpoint and interrogated by Israeli security, the Ministry of the Interior, and the military, for over ten hours.

    /..
    http://www.usacbi.org/2014/01/academic-delegation-to-palestine-endures-10-hour-interrogation-by-israeli-security/

    Perhaps the Professors are terrorists!

  116. Daniel Rich

    Just because I believe it is wrong to show prejudice, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews (or other groups for that matter) it does not follow that I support apartheid (including the wider definition that you give) and I highly resent your inference that I do.

  117. Roger Lloyd Pack supported grass root homeless and youth groups in London without any of the craving for recognition that comes with most celebrity. Top bloke.

  118. A poet too Phil.

    http://www.roughwinds.co.uk/

  119. RIP Trigger, we will miss you, top bloke indeed.

  120. Great to see you back blogging, Craig. I was a bit worried about your health.

    I didn’t know about AlcAnon’s blog either.

    A note to anyone previously in email contact with me:

    I have switched to a Mac. And although I had saved my address book from the other laptop, and even printed it out, I’ve now lost all my email addresses. So email me – I can’t email anyone!

  121. Reciting Wilfrid Owen’s Strange Meeting at an anti war protest in 2012.

    At the launch of the UK Don’t Attack Iran Campaign on 28 January 2012, held at a rally outside the US Embassy in London, actor Roger Lloyd Pack gave a powerful reading of Strange Meeting by First World War poet Wilfred Owen, one of the most famous anti-war poems ever written.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZZbDGMlezY

  122. doug scorgie

    16 Jan, 2014 - 5:36 pm

    ESLO
    16 Jan, 2014 – 9:27 am
    “No Guano – anti Semitism and anti Zionism are not the same thing – it is you and Daniel Rich that are seeking to establish a false equality rather than me…”

    ESLO I’m glad you agree that anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism but Jewish Zionists would disagree with you.

    “Jewish communal failure to stem the tide against Israel on American campuses has many causes; among the more important is a flawed understanding of anti-Israelism, which is a new and quite different form of anti-Semitism, and which requires a unique response.”

    Charles Jacobs. http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Boycotters-on-the-couch-338074

    “I think the line between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism is getting thinner all the time.”

    Brendan O’neill. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100227161/anti-zionists-claim-to-be-completely-different-to-anti-semites-but-theres-one-key-thing-they-have-in-common/

    “Anti-Zionism is an inherently anti-Semitic doctrine. In calling for the fall of the Jewish state, anti-Zionists are engaged in a racist endeavour. Jews should feel no hesitation whatsoever in calling out those who challenge Israel’s right to exist as anti-Semites, with all the attendant implications.”

    Eylon Aslan-Levy. http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-trouble-with-anti-zionism/

  123. In Sharon’s time. He was the Israeli PM 2001-2006. He succeeded Ehud Barak and preceded Ehud Olmert.

    Israeli WMD Institute Used Soldiers as Guinea Pigs in Untested Anthrax Experiment

    by Richard Silverstein
    January 14, 2014

    A six year struggle by a group of IDF soldiers and officers for justice has ended with the State agreeing to pay them $6-million (Yossi Melman’s Hebrew story and the English version, which has been replaced on the Jerusalem Post site by a far more IDF-friendly story by Yaakov Lapin) for their participation in a medical experiment conducted under false pretenses. Between 1999-2005, the ministry of defense, IDF, and the Israeli chemical and biological weapons institute at Nes Ziona collaborated with their American counterparts in research to find a suitable anthrax vaccine. This was the period just after the U.S. “white powder” letter scare in which several Americans were infected with anthrax and died.

    /..
    http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2014/01/14/israeli-wmd-institute-used-soldiers-as-guinea-pigs-in-untested-anthrax-experiment/

  124. FFS this site is going to fold if all discussions lead to cries of anti-semitism or other idiocy. I feel like banging my head against a wall, and I imagine various others (including Craig) feel similarly. The only alternative is to ban some of the trolls. And they really are trolls – they are here to upset the discussions.

    This isn’t a freedom of speech/expression issue, it’s about being able to hold a conversation without being railroaded into the same tired arguments we’ve seen here time and time again. Why should they have opportunity to do this? I’m all for accommodating people with different points of view, but not if they make no effort to get into the spirit of the discussion. Is it better for all discussions to descend into chaos than to ban a few people who were largely here to stir things up anyway?

  125. IF Rabin had not been assassinated, would the situation vis a vis the Palestinians be better, different or just the same? There seemed more humanity about him than the others.

    ‘After the historical handshake with Yasser Arafat, Rabin said, on behalf of the Israeli people: “We who have fought against you, the Palestinians, we say to you today, in a loud and a clear voice, enough of blood and tears … enough!” During this term of office, Rabin also oversaw the signing of the Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace in 1994.’

    “ Military cemeteries in every corner of the world are silent testimony to the failure of national leaders to sanctify human life. ” — Yitzhak Rabin, 1994 Nobel Peace Prize lecture.

    Yitzhak Rabin, Shimon Peres and Yasser Arafat receiving the Nobel Peace Prize following the Oslo Accords Photo

    For his role in the creation of the Oslo Accords, Rabin was awarded the 1994 Nobel Peace Prize, along with Yasser Arafat and Shimon Peres. The Accords greatly divided Israeli society, with some seeing Rabin as a hero for advancing the cause of peace and some seeing him as a traitor for giving away land they viewed as rightfully belonging to Israel. Many Israelis on the right wing often blame him for Jewish deaths in terror attacks, attributing them to the Oslo agreements.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin

    The assassin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yigal_Amir

  126. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    16 Jan, 2014 - 8:51 pm

    @ ESLO

    “Habba isn’t here yet”

    Here I am! Sorry to see that Komodo accused you of being me, but you probably know by now that the Eminences are in the habit of accusing people with whom they disagree of being Habbabkuk. It’s a cheap tactic, but of course much easier than actually engaging with the argument, and a comforting way of denying to oneself that there is more than one person on this blog who doesn’t swallow all of the guff posted here.

    “I have no gripe with Craig”

    That is good. Nor do I – and more importantly, I have no reason to believe that Craig Murray has a gripe with me. That’s probably because his IQ, knowledge and experience is of a rather higher order than those of many of his “supporters”.

  127. Anon - the troll buster

    16 Jan, 2014 - 8:57 pm

    @Haemoglobin

    “FFS this site is going to fold if all discussions lead to cries of anti-semitism or other idiocy. I feel like banging my head against a wall, and I imagine various others (including Craig) feel similarly. The only alternative is to ban some of the trolls. And they really are trolls – they are here to upset the discussions.”

    It is of course classic troll behaviour to dismiss those with whom you disagree of being a troll rather than engaging with their argument. All I can see ESLO did was contest Guano’s view that those promoting the quenelle were anti Semites rather than anti Zionists – a view for which there is a lot of publicly available evidence if you would care to look.

    Do you really think it is worth turning a blind eye to anti-Semitism and other bigotry just to advance some other cause?

    Doug S

    It seems a very peculiar argument you are developing – lets ignore the difference between anti Semitism and anti Zionism because some Zionists are arguing there is no or minimal difference?

  128. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    16 Jan, 2014 - 8:59 pm

    @ Haemaglobin

    “I’m all for accommodating people with different points of view, but not if they make no effort to get into the spirit of the discussion.”
    ________________

    That sounds a little nebulous, even weasely, to me. How exactly would you define the “spirit of the discussion”?

    Please offer some thoughts on how, in practice, you would reconcile expressing a “different point of view” with “getting into the spirit of the discussion” and how, in your considered opinion, should the “regular posters/guys” of this blog deal with people whom they have decided are not “in the spirit of the discussion”.

  129. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    16 Jan, 2014 - 9:12 pm

    “So Mary wishes all the following to rot in hell:

    All members of the US Armed Forces while Bush was in power
    All members of the UK Armed Forces while Blair was in power
    All Republican Party members while Bush was in power
    All Labour Party members while Blair was in power.

    A tad broad brush I would say – but I suspect that Mary would want to add a few more to her hate list?”

    _________________

    You are most certainly right, ESLO. She also hates Tories, successful people, women who have “married well” and cyclists who exercise their sport with competitive aim in leafy Surrey.

  130. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    16 Jan, 2014 - 9:18 pm

    “While you’ve been away, your prediction that Western nations would try to back-track and maintain Assad in power have proved accurate.”
    ____________

    I am somewhat astonished, Guano, that you should have neglected to remind avid readers that it was I – Habbabkuk – who first predicted on this blog that the Western powers had no intention of attacking President Assad the Son and, for that matter ( contrary to the frenzied claims of some here), that this was not the start of World War III.

    But I forgive you because I know that it is not easy to admit one’s misjudgements and errors of appreciation.

  131. Quite a good film explaining how the scam works:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

  132. “War, Conquest, Famine and DEATH. The four horsemen are coming.”

    I’ll try my best to get through it, Herbie, but we’re not off to a good start there!

  133. Tony Blair along with George Bush made Johnny Punish’s 2013 list of “Top Ten Most Wanted Global War Criminals”.

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/07/25/ten-top-global-war-criminals-all-non-muslims/

  134. BrianFujisan

    17 Jan, 2014 - 3:34 am

    Cheers Daniel…

    Netanyahu’s demands are largely reflected in the pending Senate bill which is named for its co-sponsors, Republican Sen. Mark Kirk and Democratic Sen. Robert Menendez, each of whom received more campaign money from AIPAC-related political-action committees than any other senatorial candidates during their runs for office – in 2010 and 2012, respectively.

    The bill would impose sweeping new sanctions against Tehran if it fails either to comply with the terms of the Nov. 24 accord or reach a comprehensive accord within one year. Such sanctions would also take effect if Iran conducts a test for ballistic missiles with a range exceeding 500 kms or if it is found to have directly or by proxy supported a terrorist attack against U.S. individuals or property.

    Rabbi Jack Moline, the director of the National Jewish Democratic Council (NJDC), publicly accused AIPAC of using “strong-arm tactics, essentially threatening people that if they didn’t vote a particular way, that somehow that makes them anti-Israel or means the abandonment of the Jewish community.”

    “The bill before the U.S. Senate …will not achieve the denuclearization of Iran,” Goldberg, a self-described “Iran hawk,” wrote in his Bloomberg column this week. “What it could do is move the U.S. closer to war with Iran and, crucially, make Iran appear – even to many of the U.S.’s allies – to be the victim of American intransigence, even aggression.”

    Jim Lobe

    Also of interest, Re War criminals…

    KARMA Rising….

    An international campaign to boycott Israeli settlement products has rapidly turned from a distant nuisance into a harsh economic reality for Israeli farmers in the West Bank’s Jordan Valley.

    The export-driven income of growers in the valley’s 21 settlements dropped by more than 14 percent, or $29 million, last year, largely because Western European supermarket chains, particularly those in Britain and Scandinavia, are increasingly shunning the area’s peppers, dates, grapes and fresh herbs, settlers say.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/01/israeli-settlement-international.html

  135. A sick society, especially Amerika.

    The Black Rhinoceros is in danger of becoming extinct due to poaching and loss of habitat. There are said to be less than a thousand in existence.

    What does the ‘Dallas Safari Club’ do to aid these beautiful survivors? Put up a permit to shoot one of them for auction to the highest bidder.

    The rhino is question is said to be old and dangerous. I know of many war criminals and killers to whom that description applies.

    The successful bidder is now receiving death threats. How apposite.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/hunter-corey-knowlton-responds-to-backlash-over-350000-auction-to-kill-black-rhino-9064111.html

    Corey Knowlton is pictured….. I’ve got a high powered rifle and I must kill, kill, kill, kill,……………………….

  136. A PS What revolting people. They boast of their kills. They have Tajikistan, Russian and Romanian representatives. Hunting tourism is obviously big business.

    Corey Knowlton is here.
    http://www.huntingconsortium.com/theteam.htm

  137. The latest revelation from Edward Snowden is that the NSA have created Dishfire which allows access by the UK security services.

    Edward Snowden: British spies can look at text messages picked up in secret operation by US spooks
    Jan 16, 2014 19:04

    America’s National Security Agency has created a secret database called Dishfire which stores messages for future use

    [..]
    British spies are able to look at texts scooped up in a secret operation which collects hundreds of millions of messages, former US spy Edward Snowden claims.

    America’s National Security Agency (NSA) has created a secret database called Dishfire which stores messages for future use and British spies, who face tough British laws, have been given a back door to exploit that information, it was claimed.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/edward-snowden-british-spies-can-3029993

    The gangsters-in-charge are still laughing in our faces.

    ~~~

    Edward Snowden is joining the board of the Freedom of the Press Foundation next month.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/14/edward-snowden-freedom-press-foundation-board

  138. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    17 Jan, 2014 - 6:04 am

    Good morning, night-owls and early-birds, may the sun shine today!

  139. @Mary

    Edward Snowden is joining the board of the Freedom of the Press Foundation next month.

    And he is now in a country where Freedom of the Press is much more of an issue than it was in his previous home – so we look forward to him raising the issue there. Don’t hold your breath however!

  140. @ BrianFujisan,

    Occasionally I find little gems online.

    Like, ‘Resistance is not an equitable tug-of-war between good and bad, light and darkness; it’s a desperate push against an imbalance to force equity.’

    LINK

    Compared to the mind-numbing hasbara manure, that is rather refreshing.

  141. @ ESLO

    “Habba isn’t here yet”

    Here I am! Sorry to see that Komodo accused you of being me, but you probably know by now that the Eminences are in the habit of accusing people with whom they disagree of being Habbabkuk. It’s a cheap tactic, but of course much easier than actually engaging with the argument, and a comforting way of denying to oneself that there is more than one person on this blog who doesn’t swallow all of the guff posted here.

    “I have no gripe with Craig”

    That is good. Nor do I – and more importantly, I have no reason to believe that Craig Murray has a gripe with me. That’s probably because his IQ, knowledge and experience is of a rather higher order than those of many of his “supporters”.

    Much that is of interest here. And the stylistic similarity between your, ESLO’s and even Anon’s posts suggests community if not identity. It was a genuine mistake, and I suggest that your collective tendency to behave like clones explains it fully.

    Perhaps you would get a more sympathetic hearing for your criticism of just about everything not posted by your cronies, if you avoided denigrating your targets with ad-hominems such as the one in bold above.

    You asked earlier: “How exactly would you define the “spirit of the discussion”?”
    So many questions. But I’ll give you my definition, until you showed up…
    By and large friendly give-and-take among a group of people with loosely similar political sympathies, in which malicious interventions by disruptive posters were deprecated.

    If you object to our views, you will be far more at home at order-order.com. If indeed you don’t run it.

  142. Unlike Chelsea Manning who was sentenced to 35 years’ confinement and who is now in Fort Leavenworth, Texas, a military prison, Edward Snowden can breathe fresh air and see the sky.

    Chelsea has been given the Sam Adams Award which Craig won 1in 2005 as I said before.

    Three cheers for a brave human.
    http://warisacrime.org/content/chelsea-manning-awarded-sam-adams-integrity-prize-2014

    How many more years are you going to incarcerate him Obomber? Longer than those poor souls you are still holding at Guantanamo?

    Remember Julian too, atill a prisoner of Mrs May and the ConDems.

  143. Of course, Craig, the problem remains moderation. Would it be too much of an infringement of your philosophy to insist that comments remain clearly on-topic, and that if they are not, they are deleted? I think that might solve a number of issues.

    Now can we all talk about Blair? Or STFU? Thanks.

  144. @Daniel Rich

    “Time to shut up about antisemitism.”

    Will only be too glad to oblige when you and your friends stop spouting it – but until that happy day I regard it as public duty to oppose it and other forms of bigotry.

  145. Little bastard was in Vietnam in (?) November. Who knew?

    They got the plane pic to prove it.

    http://www.baomoi.com/Cuu-Thu-tuong-Anh-Tony-Blair-dien-thuyet-tai-Da-Nang/119/12441795.epi

  146. That’s after this:
    http://tuoitrenews.vn/politics/13068/vietnam-denies-adviser-deal-with-tony-blair

    And after his two previous visits, no doubt on G_CEYL as well.

    So did he finally get the contract to take a large slice of someone else’s money while channeling the rest to his new friends?* Google is silent on this.

    *I realise this is not the way he might describe it.

  147. “Of course, Craig, the problem remains moderation. Would it be too much of an infringement of your philosophy to insist that comments remain clearly on-topic, and that if they are not, they are deleted? I think that might solve a number of issues.”

    Well I suppose arguing about whether a deleted post was on topic or off would give us something to talk about.

  148. @ Fred:
    I think that could be banned as well. Mod’s decision final. If not like, eff off. No appeals. Maybe ONE preliminary yellow card?

    But it’s not up to either of us, Returning to the topic, this came up while I was still on holiday -

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/10551007/Tony-Blair-quits-as-adviser-to-Malawis-president.html

    Heaven forfend that the taint of corruption attach itself to the Reverend….

  149. The Telegraph has a resume of Blair’s commuting routine. The rich and powerful must surely think of him as the less fortunate regard doorstep salesmen:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/10293693/Tony-Blair-strikes-new-deals-to-advise-Vietnam-and-Peru.html

    (no, he hadn’t done a deal with Vietnam at that point – see above – but I bet he has now.)

  150. “I think that could be banned as well. Mod’s decision final. If not like, eff off. No appeals. Maybe ONE preliminary yellow card?”

    Ah, a dictatorship.

    How exactly were you proposing to ban someone?

  151. @ Fred:
    I wasn’t proposing anything. However, IP’s can be blocked if necessary even on this blog. Access can be restricted to registered members if not on this software on other site setups, and disruptive members can be blocked. For instance. But as I say, not my problem. Or yours.

    Thank you.

    Topic:

    For those who missed it:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477665/Alastair-Campbells-job-dictator-set-Tony-Blair.html

    Funny how the Mail transcends its everyday awful journalism when dealing with Blair. And they’ve nailed the coincidental attachment of both Blair and Campbell to Nazarbayev.

  152. Ah, a dictatorship

    Sorry, missed that. We can have an elected politburo if Craig likes. But someone has to be in charge, don’t they? Don’t they? We’ve seen what happens when they’re not.

  153. “I wasn’t proposing anything. However, IP’s can be blocked if necessary even on this blog. Access can be restricted to registered members if not on this software on other site setups, and disruptive members can be blocked. For instance. But as I say, not my problem. Or yours.”

    What about people with dynamic IP, how do you block them?

  154. Don’t care. Fuck off*

    *Your approach, I believe.

  155. A Career Drafted in Blood
    Sharon the Terrorist

    by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR and ALEXANDER COCKBURN
    17.1.14

    Ariel Sharon was elected prime minister of Israel on February 
6, 2001. Some incorrigible optimists then suggested that only a right-wing extremist
 of Sharon’s notoriety would boast the credentials to broker lasting peace
 with the Palestinians.

    Maybe so. History 
is not devoid of such examples. But Sharon’s record was not encouraging.
 His crucial role in provoking Palestinian uprisings by his excursions 
under heavy military protection to holy sites in Jerusalem is well known. A 
little more faintly perhaps people recall the verdict of an Israeli commission
of inquiry finding that Sharon bore some responsibility for the dreadful Phalangist 
massacres in Palestinian refugee camps outside Beirut.

    But in fact 
Sharon’s history as a terrorist, with documented participation in what 
can be fairly stigmatized as war crimes, goes back to the early 1950s. Here 
is a brief resume, culled in part from a two-part series on Sharon in
 the well-respected Hebrew-language Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz

    /..
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/01/17/sharon-the-terrorist/

  156. “Sorry, missed that. We can have an elected politburo if Craig likes. But someone has to be in charge, don’t they? Don’t they? We’ve seen what happens when they’re not.”

    What if we elect someone who doesn’t like you?

    The oppressive regime you propose doesn’t sound like much fun at all. Starting a fight to force people to be peaceful doesn’t tend to work. Wouldn’t it be a lot easier if we just started being nice to each other?

  157. I am sick of hearing of B.Liar’s money making activities. Perhaps one day there might be one flight too many in that sleek black private jet he uses.

  158. Thanks for your refreshing realism Komodo.

    Fred, you have no point, its not serving anyone to argue the toss, we want to exchange information and debate the issues thrown up by Craig, mind bending does not come into it.

    Thanks for the link to a very eloquent site, Daniel.

    Blair quits as Malawi’s advisor? hmmm must have got something to do with it being a poor country and the air defence radar issue from some years back under Blairs reign, when malawi does not even have an airforce, seems synonimous with this creep jetting around the earth latching on to people’s riches and working the global trade/accounting systems with his lawyers.

    Somebody please put some money up for him, lure him into a deep hole somewhere and let him rot.

    We are blessed with sunshine in Norfolk this morning and with angry bees polluting the skies above in anticipation of further ruptures to come.

    Slightly OT,forgive, the PM is visiting Norfolk in an attempt to electioneer his flock. He knows why they are angry and we know that he is too late, as he was in China, and he’s wasting his time. Its all done to placate UKIP, why they have to play up to the rabid, I do not know.

    yesterday two of his worst councillors in Norfolk, Cllr.Allison Thomas of failed children services infamy, and Cllr.Cliff Jordan/gardener, who bought RAF Coltishall without a business plan, a man who bullies his way through local Government, they walked out of a meeting that was set up to change the cabinet system back to a committee system, because they could not get it their way.

    These two failed councillors should resign, but Cameron has no control over these rogues.

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/conservatives_walk_out_on_norfolk_county_council_committee_talks_1_3212664

  159. I am sick of hearing of B.Liar’s money making activities. Perhaps one day there might be one flight too many in that sleek black private jet he uses.

    You are right you are sick.

  160. I still think Blairio is being set up to take the rap.

    There’ll necessarily be an all change moment at some stage in the near future and someone will have to be thrown to the wolves to create the impression of justice done. It certainly won’t be an insider.

    Media are keeping Blair warm, and in the public eye. It’s remarkable too the way they allow the vicious and venomous comments against him to stand unmoderated. This is quite common where he’s concerned, and they’re always hinting at dubious business deals and whatnot with despotic dictators. I mean, look at this and especially the comments from that holy of holies, Bloomberg itself:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-04/blair-scorned-at-home-builds-business-empire-abroad.html

    It’s very unfair I know, but that’s the way they work. Didn’t he watch The Sopranos?

    I do hope they don’t seize his palaces and treasure as well. Poor Shree.

  161. From that link Nevermind.

    ‘In his new incarnation, Blair is taking on highly paid roles that don’t sit well with Britons still agitated by what they saw as Blair’s foreign adventurism when he was in office.’

    See how they let him off. It was not ‘adventurism’. It was a bloody offensive war and occupation in Iraq.

    His punishment should rightfully be arraignment and sentence for his war crimes at The Hague, that life sentence to be spent in a solitary cell on a cold island with a tape on loop of the screams of the little ones having their dressings removed without anaesthetic. On the wall will be projected endless images of the babies born in Fallujah with gross deformities from the dust filled with depleted uranium that their mummies and daddies ingested and inhaled. That should suffice until he meets his Maker.

  162. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    17 Jan, 2014 - 1:43 pm

    @ Komodo

    “You asked earlier: “How exactly would you define the “spirit of the discussion”?””
    _____________

    Yes, but I didn’t ask you, Komodo. I should prefer the originator of the comment to respond to my question if that’s all the same to you. Bait and switch is so boring….

    Cheers, mate!

  163. Uzbek in the UK

    17 Jan, 2014 - 1:49 pm

    Unlike Chelsea Manning who was sentenced to 35 years’ confinement and who is now in Fort Leavenworth, Texas, a military prison, Edward Snowden can breathe fresh air and see the sky.
    ________________________________________________

    Mary,

    Not to engage in argumental conversation with you, but more to note some thoughts. Snowden is comparatively free in Russia and only comparatively to Chelsea. Russia as you know have very strict registration (propiska) system where every ‘free’ citizen must register with local police. So no prison bars but the freedom in comparative. And air is Russia is not that fresh either. In fact Russia is one of the most polluted countries in the world, the most polluted of G7, 2nd most polluted in G20 and I certainly think that air in Moscow is more polluted than in Texas.

    On other more (principal) note I am certainly puzzled by Snowden’s Russian rendezvous. I am puzzled because for someone who put himself at a great risk for the freedom of speech is now effectively locked in the country wich is listed under number 3 as most dangerous country for journalists. Comparatively peaceful Russia (with the exception of occasional slaughter of Chechens and Central Asians driven to Russia by poverty) is a leader by the number of assassinated journalists in the last 20 years. It is certainly not the principal destination for someone who made brave stance to the global spying intelligence. It reminds me the worst of the Cold War where ‘enemy of my enemy is my good friend’ way of politics. I am therefore puzzled by Snowden’s involvement in this dirt.

  164. Uzbek I know he is not ‘free’ in terms of our understanding of the word. Remember though how he was being hounded and tracked. Everyone thought he was heading for a South American country but the restrictions on overland flying scotched that. Better Moscow than a disgusting Supermax prison in the ‘land of the free’.

  165. ‘Nobody did better out of New Labour than Tony Blair, who’s worth up to £40m and is the owner of seven properties. How the moneybags ex-PM amassed such a fortune is now attracting attention. The investigative Rottweiler Tom Bower is researching a book on Blair’s loot, as are the news hounds Francis Beckett and David Hencke. Kazakhstan should be interesting.’

    http://www.newstatesman.com/2014/01/commons-confidential-grin-and-blair-it

    Can’t imagine anyone wanting to buy or read such books.

  166. Uzbek in the UK

    17 Jan, 2014 - 2:07 pm

    Better Moscow than a disgusting Supermax prison in the ‘land of the free’.
    ____________________________________

    It is indeed hard choice. Brings us to the point that freedom is only comparative – everywhere.

    On the other hand, I am curious if asked now, would Snowden criticize appalling freedoms of speech in Russia? Or would he make this same choice of lesser of two evils.

  167. “His punishment should rightfully be arraignment and sentence for his war crimes at The Hague, that life sentence to be spent in a solitary cell on a cold island with a tape on loop of the screams of the little ones having their dressings removed without anaesthetic. On the wall will be projected endless images of the babies born in Fallujah with gross deformities from the dust filled with depleted uranium that their mummies and daddies ingested and inhaled. That should suffice until he meets his Maker.”

    Do you get some sort of perverse pleasure by projecting such punishments on the targets of your hate? All very primitive I’m afraid this “eye for an eye” rubbish!

  168. “Can’t imagine anyone wanting to buy or read such books.”

    I can.

  169. Yes, but I didn’t ask you, Komodo. I should prefer the originator of the comment to respond to my question if that’s all the same to you. Bait and switch is so boring….

    Cheers, mate!

    Tough shit. Be grateful. You don’t even answer my questions.

  170. While William “Heir of Churchill” Hague continues to assert that no-one did anything wrong to detainees-
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/hague-rejects-move-for-iraq-war-crimes-prosecutions-255068.html

    this was published at the end of last year, and he seems not to have read it:

    http://www.detaineeinquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/35100_Trafalgar-Text-accessible.pdf

    The timeline (Chapter 2) is worth a look. Craig is mentioned re renditions to Uzbekistan, incidentally.

    I am wondering how far Straw is likely to go to protect his then boss, Blair, should the shit hit the fan despite the best efforts of US-centric apologists like Hague. Not far, is my guess.

  171. “Fred, you have no point, its not serving anyone to argue the toss, we want to exchange information and debate the issues thrown up by Craig, mind bending does not come into it.”

    Who is this “we” you refer to?

  172. It must be a great source of pain to all those involved in seeking to project their hatred of Tony Blair and Margaret Thatcher that the 99% just don’t appear to have got the message.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-vote-margaret-thatcher-best-modern-prime-minister-9035124.html

    Perhaps those seriously interested in changing the World rather than in sounding off their own neuroses might wish to consider.

  173. Sorry Fred, in a moment of inane tea induced monging, I dare assumed that there is a collective spirit present here, you’re part of it, unless, off course, you’d like to leave.

    A technical observation. Glen Greenwald is not at salon anymore, the link’s going nowhere, so why not replace it with this one….:)

    http://squonk.tk/earthling/

  174. “Sorry Fred, in a moment of inane tea induced monging, I dare assumed that there is a collective spirit present here, you’re part of it, unless, off course, you’d like to leave.”

    A collective spirit? Not seen any evidence of it. Even if there were I doubt they would want to see off topic posts banned.

    “A technical observation. Glen Greenwald is not at salon anymore, the link’s going nowhere, so why not replace it with this one….:)”

    Off topic.

  175. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    17 Jan, 2014 - 4:07 pm

    From Nevermind (to ESLO) :

    “I dare assumed that there is a collective spirit present here, you’re part of it, unless, off course, you’d like to leave.”

    _______________

    Says it all really, doesn’t it. Agree with the “community” and place yourself within “the spirit of the discussion” or leave.

    Where in history, Nevermind, have we heard that sort of thinking before?

  176. Where in history, Nevermind, have we heard that sort of thinking before?

    In the Conservative party? In the Daily Mail?

    /answered.

  177. Habba

    Quite clearly they think you, I and other dissenters are all one or part of the same collective (despite obvious differences should they care to look) – because that I’m afraid is how they perceive themselves.

    Komodo

    The collective spirit argument was of course also the traditional way of dealing with dissent in the USSR – the root of the word soviet is harmony/concord. Totalitarians of all perspectives of course dislike all those who dissent and rock the boat.

  178. For clarity, just before I decide that the trolls have won here (congratulations,if only for sheer bloody minded persistence in shutting down free speech) I am all in favour of free speech. I recognise that this is Craig’s blog, and in the interests of another basic freedom – freedom of choice – he can invite anyone or no-one to comment on it, with the full spectrum in between. That’s up to him, not me, not Fred and not Habbabkuks 1,2,3 and 3a. I also note that H1/2/3/3a objects strongly to multiple off-topic posts by another poster. Who might well consider starting her own blog, eh?

    So I made a suggestion designed to discourage off-topic posts, rather than primarily to evict posters. And to force us to stick to the subject of Craig’s choosing. Which, in face-to-face conversation would be a routine courtesy. No? You’d spend five seconds listening to a babbling idiot who interjected a description of his breakfast into your real-world discussion of the financial crash? Really? You’d tell him to fuck off. Or, if smaller and weaker, you would yourself fuck off. Whatever.

    How this might be implemented is another matter, and one which I see no point, Fred, in discussing in advance of any decision to adopt the suggestion. There are, though, more ways of skinning a computerised cat than you can probably imagine, and blocking IP’s is only one option. DNS clients *can* be blocked.

    Anyway, I know I’m talking to myself here, so I may as well do it out loud and not have to type it. Tata.

  179. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    17 Jan, 2014 - 4:43 pm

    Nevermind to Fred, I should have said.

  180. Thank you Komodo 1 or is 2,3,or 37z. Perhaps you could tell us how to work out what is and isn’t on topic here since nearly all of my posts have been responding to comments by members of the collective. If the only topics that should be discussed on this thread are Sharon and Blair then I’m more than happy to stick to that providing the same rule is applied to members of the collective – but if they want to post on other subjects e.g. eulogising the quenelle, arguing that anti-Semitism no longer exists/seeking to define it away, wishing death on those associated with Sharon and Blair then the collective cannot really complain when someone says why they disagree. This is not trolling but responding to what is put in front of me I’m afraid.

  181. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    17 Jan, 2014 - 4:51 pm

    “Where in history, Nevermind, have we heard that sort of thinking before?

    In the Conservative party? In the Daily Mail?

    /answered.”
    _________________

    No, Komodo, I wasn’t thinking of the Conservative Party or the Daily Mail.

    Think again and supply a new answer.

    BTW, why don’t you let people speak for themselves? What inner compulsion drives you to answer on behalf of others all the time? You should really have more confidence in their ability to reply themselves, shouldn’t you? After all, are you all not in the same “spirit of the discussion”? Like-minded doughty campaigners for truth and justice?

  182. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    17 Jan, 2014 - 4:54 pm

    Komodo:

    Are you one and the same as Nevermind, whom I quoted?

    I refer to the following from you :

    “For clarity, just before I decide that the trolls have won here (congratulations,if only for sheer bloody minded persistence in shutting down free speech)”

    So you “think” that dissent = an attempt to shut down free speech?

    Very peculiar!

  183. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    17 Jan, 2014 - 4:57 pm

    Komodo:

    “So I made a suggestion designed to discourage off-topic posts,…”
    ______________

    Would you like to scroll back a little on this thread and tell us the name of the first off-topic poster?

  184. doug scorgie

    17 Jan, 2014 - 5:04 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!
    16 Jan, 2014 – 9:18 pm

    “I am somewhat astonished, Guano, that you should have neglected to remind avid readers that it was I – Habbabkuk – who first predicted on this blog that the Western powers had no intention of attacking President Assad…”

    References please.

  185. Perhaps Komodo could count the number of off topic posts that occurred before I responded to one of the more scurillous ones.

  186. doug scorgie

    17 Jan, 2014 - 5:12 pm

    Anon – the troll buster
    16 Jan, 2014 – 8:57 pm
    Says:

    “Doug S It seems a very peculiar argument you are developing – lets ignore the difference between anti Semitism and anti Zionism because some Zionists are arguing there is no or minimal difference?”

    I wasn’t developing an argument Anon merely making an observation. Surely you can tell the difference.

  187. Doug

    I can clearly remember Habba making such a comment – perhaps you were hiding under the table expecting WW3 at the time. Perhaps the more important question is what should now be done to relieve the massive humanitarian suffering that is now being faced by Syrians – all those who argued for the do nothing approach are now truly seeing the consequences.

  188. doug scorgie

    17 Jan, 2014 - 5:44 pm

    ESLO
    17 Jan, 2014 – 9:48 am
    “Time to shut up about antisemitism.”

    “Will only be too glad to oblige when you and your friends stop spouting it – but until that happy day I regard it as public duty to oppose it and other forms of bigotry.”

    ESLO there is no anti-Semitism on this site. If it appears then it will be from a Zionist troll attempting to undermine the blog. If you come across any please inform us about it.

  189. What does the Quartet ME envoy have to say about these?

    1.
    Protests against blockade of Gaza
    To mark 5 years since Israel’s massive onslaught against the Palestinian people in Gaza, Palestine Solidarity Campaign are stepping up the campaign for an end to the 6 year blockade of Gaza.

    On Friday 17th January 2014 a petition calling for a lifting of the blockade will be presented at Number 10, Downing Street. On Saturday 18th January a protest will be held outside the Israeli Embassy.

    The petition will be handed in by:
    Palestinians from Gaza: Mahmoud Sarsak, Palestinian footballer and former prisoner and hunger striker and Haya Al Farra from the Palestinian Mission.

    Accompanying them will be:
    PSC patrons: Sir Geoffrey Bindman and Bruce Kent and PSC Chair, Hugh Lanning and Director, Sarah Colborne.
    /..
    http://www.palestinecampaign.org/protests-step-barbaric-blockade-bombing-gaza/

    Children burned with cigarettes by Israeli soldiers in illegal settlement

    2.
    Three Palestinian children were allegedly burned with lit cigarettes and denied access to food, water or toilet facilities after being arrested and detained by Israeli soldiers and police in September, a new report indicates.

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora-barrows-friedman/children-burned-cigarettes-israeli-soldiers-illegal-settlement

    Other atrocities are also recorded such as Palestinian prisoners being put in outdoor cages during the recent harsh winter weather.

    ~~~

    Blair meanwhile vacated his suite of rooms, the whole of the fourth floor of the Colony Hotel (estimated cost $1.5m per year for five years to accommodate his entourage and staff), in mid 2011 and is now in a new building in Sheikh Jarrah, East Jerusalem. All paid for by the taxpayers of the EU, Norway and the US.
    http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Blair-leaves-Colony-Hotel-for-new-digs-in-Sheikh-Jarrah

  190. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    17 Jan, 2014 - 6:03 pm

    @ Scorgie

    “References please”
    _________

    threads passim. BTW are you not the same Scorgie who once upon a time said he “couldn’t be arsed” to look up the references I supplied? I do believe you are.
    ~~~~~~~~~~

    “I wasn’t developing an argument Anon….”

    ____________

    Nothing new there, then!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “ESLO there is no anti-Semitism on this site. If it appears then it will be from a Zionist troll attempting to undermine the blog. If you come across any please inform us about it.”
    _______________

    Happy to keep on informing you in the future, as in the past, dear boy.

    But why does that annoy you so?

  191. doug scorgie

    17 Jan, 2014 - 6:04 pm

    ESLO
    17 Jan, 2014 – 2:10 pm
    To Mary:

    “Do you get some sort of perverse pleasure by projecting such punishments on the targets of your hate? All very primitive I’m afraid this “eye for an eye” rubbish!”

    ESLO if you disagree with a posters position discuss it and put forward a counter-position using logical argument.

  192. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    17 Jan, 2014 - 6:06 pm

    BTW, why has Mary gone silent?

    Could it be that she is still mulling over a devastating answer to the excellent post (including questions) from Uzbek in the UK?

  193. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    17 Jan, 2014 - 6:08 pm

    @ Scorgie

    “ESLO if you disagree with a posters position discuss it and put forward a counter-position using logical argument.”
    ______________

    Please stop using words the meaning of which you clearly do not grasp (“counter-argument”, “logical”….)

  194. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    17 Jan, 2014 - 6:10 pm

    Scorgie

    I also recommend the use of the apostrophe where necessary and appropriate!

    Reference : your post at 18h04)

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