The Apartheid Israel Poison Is Out

by craig on April 30, 2014 4:43 pm in Uncategorized

That Israel has become an apartheid state is so self-evident that it is impossible to put the fact back in the box.  Sky News’ Sam Kiley said it a year ago, and that was almost as surprising as Kerry’s rush of honesty.  A state which has hundreds of laws defining the rights and obligations of its different groups of citizens by their ethnicity, enforcing zoning and separate education and public service provisio, and even limiting the right of defined ethnic groups to live with their spouses, is a state which can be characterized by no other word than Apartheid.  Israel’s claims to be a democracy exactly echo the similar claim of apartheid South Africa.

I am however delighted if the neo-con plan for a “two state” solution is now dead, because that plan was precisely the same plan that South Africa had for its “Bantustan” reserves for black people.  The only difference being that Israel has been much more vicious, herded the indigenous population into much smaller and less viable areas than was allowed to the “Bantustans”, subjected them to appalling economic blockade and then continually ripped away more and more of their small amount of land on a daily basis.

The difference between apartheid South Africa’s Bantustans and the “two state solution”, is that the Israel version is, incredibly, even worse, even more evil.

As in South Africa, the ONLY acceptable solution for Israel/Palestine is freedom and majority rule. People of goodwill should never again be sidetracked into pursuing the kind of apartheid solutions being pushed by Tony Blair.

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142 Comments

  1. Kerry did ‘Teshuvah’ after he was chased by Jewish organisations lead by AIPAC. In a statement released by the State Department, Kerry lashed out against “partisan political” attacks against him, but acknowledged his comments last week to a closed international forum could have been misinterpreted. While he pointedly did not apologize for the remarks, he stressed he was, and is, a strong supporter of Israel, which he called a “vibrant democracy.” He said his remarks were only an expression of his firm belief that a two-state resolution is the only viable way to end the long-running conflict. And, he stressed, he does not believe Israel is, or is definitely track to become, an “apartheid state.”

    There is no secret to the truth that, Kerry loves Israel. But his belief in Israel being a “vibrant democracy” is laughable. Some radical Zionists like Marianne Williamson and IIan Pappe have admitted that Israel is NOT a democracy.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/04/29/kerry-does-teshuvah-but-refuses-to-resign/

  2. If Blair’s for, I’m against.

  3. Ray McGovern’s latest article comprehensively documents that John Kerry is an appalling swine, liar and Neo-Con tool. So let’s not mistakenly give him the remotest iota of credit for this monumental gaffe.

    – “The still-influential neoconservatives, and the “tough” White House women and men, all lusting for a U.S. attack on Syria.” –

    “Killing the Obama-Putin Trust,” by Ray McGovern, 29th April, 2014 – ICH –

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38363.htm

    More –

    “Secretary of State Kerry gets to say whatever half-truth or fiction comes into his head about Syria, Russia or other “designated villains,” but when he cites the inconvenient truth of Israeli “apartheid,” he must scramble as fast as he can to retract and apologize.”

    – “Kerry Grovels over Israeli ‘Apartheid’, “ by Robert Parry, 29th April 2014 – ICH –

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38364.htm

    No change there then, for tools of the fascist US Empire. ; )

  4. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    30 Apr, 2014 - 5:03 pm

    Abbas seems to have chosen the wrong model.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/21/the-similarities-between-mahmoud-abbas-and-mangosuthu-buthelezi/

    “It is somewhat ironic that Mahmoud Abbas made his position clear in South Africa whilst his hosts and people across the world were mourning the loss – but also celebrating the life – of a man and his movement which had most forcefully pushed for BDS against the apartheid regime and helped bring it down. Another irony is that the apartheid structures were dismantled soon after the signing of the Oslo Accords of 1993; clearly Yasser Arafat and the PLO leadership had chosen a very different path to that taken by Mandela and his ANC colleagues. Indeed, rather than emulating Mandela, both Arafat and Abbas followed the path of Mandela’s rival, leader of the Zulu Inkatha Freedom Party (IFP), Mangosuthu Buthelezi.”

  5. The fake outrage over Kerry saying Israel/Palestine could end up in an Apartheid style struggle ignores the fact that former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said exactly the same thing a few years ago. Also ignores Bishop Desmond Tutu comparing the occupied territories to Apartheid after visiting them

  6. Apartheid, you should be so lucky. The Zionazis have long since leapfrogged those accusations and become full-fledged genocidaires.

    http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=692696

    When Bibi and his SS wind up in the dock in their own international tribunal, they won’t be there for apartheid. They’ll be there for genocide.

  7. More ethnic cleansing than genocide – they’re not trying to kill all Palestinians, just to kill enough and make the rest hungry and poor and frightened enough to try to get them all to go into exile as refugees in other countries, so there’ll never be either a real Palestinian state or a single state solution. If that results in an increase in support for exremists among Palestinians (as its bound to) the Israeli government can then also use that as an excuse (though there are plenty of extremists in government in Israel too)

  8. doug scorgie

    30 Apr, 2014 - 6:17 pm

    Anyone who knows the history of Zionism, the creation of Israel and the Palestinian struggle that says a two state solution is, or ever was viable, is dishonest in the extreme.

    It was never on the cards.

    I don’t believe (and I live in hope) that there ever will be a “Jewish state” run by Jews for the benefit of Jews.

    Zionism is by its very nature a racist ideology and no other country should recognise Israel as a Jewish state.

    You cannot have a Jewish AND democratic state, it’s an oxymoron.

    There can only be a one state solution based on equality and democracy for all the citizens.

    A problem that the Israeli government would face in a future one state democracy is terrorism; not from Palestinians, but Zionist Jews within the extremist “settlers” and “pioneers”.

    A situation entirely created by the Zionists themselves.

  9. Pol Pot's disconnected thumb phalanges up

    30 Apr, 2014 - 6:32 pm

    Mais non, M. McF. genocide is “to destroy, in whole OR in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such,” says Genocide Convention Article II.

    Yup, it’s genocide.

  10. Edit, I feel for the girl attacked by quad bikers on her way from school. Not all Jewish people are bad and I know there is a Jewish man helping children get to school by his presence I saw on one video. Unfortunately he is in a minority.

    On the bigger picture I have long believed that that Israel will keep on expanding for as far as it can go and its ambition is to create a United States of Israel based on the failed US model. To do so it has had to, with the help of its allies, create failed states in the Middle East like Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and so on because while these countries are engaged in civil war they are hardly likely to challenge Israel, which then only has to keep and eye on Iran until another phase of the expansion is embarked upon.

  11. This is not appropriate here so I’ve put it on a Ukraine blog.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/simon-ostrovsky/#comment-455080

  12. I am never going to live in Palestine, so I have no right to prescribe solutions for the people who do and will. However, my opinion, for what it is worth, is that a two state solution is nuts. We are, after all, talking about a Wales-/Rhode Island-sized bit of soil. Two languages, two education systems, two air-traffic controls, two environmental policies, two foreign policies …

    I haven’t been kicked off my land, so to a Palestinian this may sound too glib, but people who have no choice but to live together might as well do so in peace and harmony and adopt administrative systems which are useful and appropriate for that immutable situation. Rightly or wrongly, accurately or otherwise I call it Unionism; Oops!

  13. technicolour

    30 Apr, 2014 - 9:59 pm

    This is disgusting, John Goss:

    “Not all Jewish people are bad and I know there is a Jewish man helping children get to school by his presence I saw on one video. Unfortunately he is in a minority.”

    Not all Jewish people are bad, but most are? How dare you. Substitute ‘Muslims’ or ‘Saudi Arabians’ for ‘Jewish’ and see how your world view stacks up, why don’t you?

    NB I had stopped commenting but plainly I should also stop dropping by to read these comments.

  14. @ John Goss: sorry, I’m sure that if you reflected, you would come up with reasons as to why that person would be visibly in the minority – eg propaganda, fear etc.

  15. Technicolour, I appreciate your comments.

  16. I dunno. I mean, I hear you loud and clear on the bad faith with which recent peace initiatives have been put forward, but I don’t see why you’d want to rule out a Palestinian state alongside an Israeli one.

    At the very least, on the principle of self-determination, if Palestinians want a country of their own within, say, the borders of the 1967 agreement, why shouldn’t that be considered a viable starting point for a discussion?

    A fully democratic greater Israel/Palestine what-have-you, that would be ideal, but if the Palestinians and Israelis both decide they want their own countries, I’d fully accept that. Wouldn’t you?

  17. “At the very least, on the principle of self-determination, if Palestinians want a country of their own within, say, the borders of the 1967 agreement, why shouldn’t that be considered a viable starting point for a discussion?”

    – find it hard to disagree.

  18. (OT, sorry)

    On the subject of Patrick Mercer, who lost his parliamentary seat after being filmed appearing to accept £4000 to lobby for business interests in Fiji, in breach of Commons rules.

    On Thursday, 8 July 2004, Patrick Mercer had this to say in connection with the torture of Salahuddin Amin, in connection with Operation Crevice (‘fertiliser bomb plot’)

    About two weeks ago, I had the enormous privilege of being briefed by the [British] high commissioner and his staff in Islamabad. They hinted that the operation was much more complex than anything that the open sources in this country had been able to tell us. They told me, or rather hinted, that there had been a very successful operation by British agencies in combination with local agencies in Pakistan. They also said that a much worse event, the details of which I was not told, had been planned, which, if it had gone ahead, would have devastated large parts of this country”.

    Describing torture as ‘very successful operation by British agencies in combination with local agencies in Pakistan‘ is shocking. Amin’s ‘testimony’, derived from his torture in Pakistan with British agents complicity, swung the Crevice case convictions alongside the ‘supergrass’ evidence of (now a free man) Mohammed Junaid Babar.

  19. Ex Pat –

    i posted some links under the Robert Parry/ICH piece, pointing to another “inconvenient truth” leaked almost simultaneously – LA Clippers Donald Sterling saying:

    in Israel, “the blacks are just treated like dogs”

    as expected, majority of the MSM conveniently avoided having to publish/air this quote from the longer tape. no NYT/WaPo. Reuters cleverly not using the quote. AP? can’t find a mention there. SPLC – no statement? ADL – actual release didn’t address the quote, tho some MSM quoting ADL referred to the quote in headlines or text to give the impression they were.

    Mondoweiss: NBA owner Sterling reportedly sought to justify his racism by citing Israeli racism
    COMMENT BY TAXI: I’ve read several mainstream articles on the racist mister Sterling, but none of them mention his ‘israel’ explanation from the now infamous taped conversation with his ex-girlfriend. I’ve even watched a couple of videos purporting to be the FULL transcribed conversation (typed up on video screen for clarity) and it appears that his reference to israel has been completely edited out.
    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/04/sterling-reportedly-israeli.html

    sadly, most US anti-zionist websites have missed the opportunity to link these two “leaks”. it is the perfect time to re-post articles & video examples of israeli “apartheid in action” – not “apartheid to possibly come” – as regards the Palestinians plus vile racist incidents in Israel against blacks (whether Ethiopians/Sudanese, etc).

    whether or not Kerry meant for his apartheid quote to be leaked & whether or not the Sterling case is a first amendment issue are secondary issues.

    the perfect opportunity to break through the fake Israel/Palestinian narrative that has dominated western media for decades is being squandered.

  20. Craig Rightly Points out –

    The difference between apartheid South Africa’s Bantustans and the “two state solution”, is that the Israel version is, incredibly, even worse, even more evil.

    To think that the U.S keep giving israel billions per year…even when there are Voices speaking out from on high in the states… Like J Carter saying exactly what Craig says –

    “When Israel does occupy this territory deep within the West Bank, and connects the 200-or-so settlements with each other, with a road, and then prohibits the Palestinians from using that road, or in many cases even crossing the road, this perpetrates even worse instances of apartness, or apartheid, than we witnessed even in South Africa.”

    Strange that i had Israel crimes on my mind as i drove home tonight… i was thinking of my wee granddaughter.. who marches up the road to play with my wee grandson… in a car free area… the ice cream van might come by..Chocolate or ice cream cones…. The children of Palestine are denied a bit of chocolate… EASTER EGGS ffs

  21. There was a one state solution perfectly workable, once not all that long ago. That state was called Palestine. A viable Palestinian state alongside the Zionist excresence would need to be contiguous territory to function, incorporating Gaza, East Jerusalem, the West Bank and incorporating a deep water port and city at the Lebanese Border, reincorporating the scattered Palestinian groups as one, effectively forming a crescent shaped territory encircling the religious supremacist colonisers in their ghastly little ethnically pure enclave of their own desire and creation. The 1967 lines attained by armed conquest by the Israeli killing machines were really just the point where the Israelis had slow things down or it would become an urgent necessity for them to institute industrial scale slaughter and destruction of murdered human being’s bodies. Even the one-sided 1948 partition arrangement itself legitimised with UN approval, breathtaking theft of Palestinian land, homes, farms, business, shops, was immediately exceeded and mediteranean coastal towns like Haifa and Jaffa which prior to the Nakba had almost no Jewish inhabitants were taken by force and remained ghost towns for years while the former inhabitants perished in the desert of starvation and disease while the crops they’d planted rotted in the ground with no-one to tend and harvest them and their former homes if not particularly grand were razed. Much of that area given to the invaders by ‘the international community’ required expulsions, forcible removal and mass executions. It was known this would happen, no one can say this was any surprise, the bestiality of the Zionist’s aims and likely, inevitable means had been proclaimed publicly since the late 19th century, euphemisms such as ‘transfer’ transparently meant Palestinian blood would flow profusely. So I don’t view the 1967 Zionist armies and gangs territorial position, attained by force of arms against defenceless dwindling numbers of Palestinians for almost twenty years, as any fair starting position for discussion.

  22. This concentration on the the most recent cruel wrong done to the Palestinians as uppermost concern, is effectively saying give up your legitimate just defensive life and way-of life, this identity preserving struggle entirely, in return for some pathetic concession: x extra pounds of margarine allowed into the Gaza strip per quarter or similar humiliations. This nonsense has to stop and the whole of the historic wrong done to these people addressed.

    We all need to let a little bit of Palestinian art, music, culture, language, people, history, love, into out hearts and our lives; we all need to become a little bit more Palestinian, that way Palestine will live forever as that bountiful beautiful land of milk and honey, where the Arab and the Jew and the whole of humanity’s infinite variations once did and can again walk side by side smiling along those sun-kissed sea shores. For the whole Arab world too, who haven’t forgotten, Palestine was their seaside family holiday, their Blackpool, their Southend, their Brighton, their Saltcoats or Seamill, their place of religious and secular pilgrimage and innocent childlike discovery and pleasure, an oasis in a literal desert. The issue will never go away, and it never should, so get it sorted you Israelis or risk becoming an even sorrier cautionary tale of hubris and well-deserved nemesis in an insignificant footnote of the annals of history.

  23. BrianFujisan

    1 May, 2014 - 12:47 am

    It is ‘full-fledged apartheid’ now but Americans can use a familiar term, ‘segregation’ — Mustafa Barghouthi

    First, here is Mustafa Barghouthi talking to the Institute for Middle East Understanding yesterday on a conference call:

    The difference between me and Secretary Kerry is that he is saying that if Israel does not allow a [Palestinian] state, it will become apartheid. And I am saying, it is already apartheid.

    This occupation that has been there for 47 years has already transformed into a full fledged system of segregation and apartheid. And we will not accept that…

    Americans can use another term, segregation. I think you know segregation more. Because that’s what you had in the United States, a system of segregation against people of African origin. But it is apartheid. And you cannot ignore– What does apartheid mean? Apartheid is a word from Afrikaaner language which means that you have two systems of laws for two people living in the same place. And that’s exactly what we have today in Palestine…

    more on this Piece @

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/04/apartheid-segregation-barghouthi.html

  24. Technicolour – I agree on John Goss’ comment. I know anti-semitic is a term that’s often used by the Israeli government wrongly to refer to any criticism of their actions, but to say most Jews are bad people is simply anti-semitic. There are plenty of Jews around the world who have nothing to do with Israeli government policy – and plenty of Israeli Jews who stand up for the rights of Palestinians, who call for negotiations even with Hamas, or even stand in front of bulldozers to try to prevent their homes being demolished, or help rebuild them afterwards.

  25. Youtube: Israel’s War on Africans
    72-minute slideshow about Israel’s treatment of non-Jewish African asylum-seekers, given at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada on March 9, 2014 • filmed by Jase Tanner • photography by Activestills • sponsored by Seriously Free Speech Committee.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9Y5dcaCyv4

  26. not mainstream, but thankfully someone has connected the dots:

    NY Times eXaminer: The Connection That Wasn’t Made: Sterling, Kerry and Israeli Apartheid
    (NYTimes eXaminer An antidote to the “paper of record”):
    By Michael M’Gehee
    But what the Editorial Board of “the paper of record” finds “most disturbing” differs from what this particular writer finds most disturbing.
    For the NYT editors the “most disturbing aspect” is that no one in the NBA was surprised at Sterling’s comments…
    But, as usual, it is what is missing from the NYT piece that is more revealing that what is offered. While denouncing the tolerance of racism there is no mention of Israeli apartheid, which Sterling pointed to in defense of his racist opinions…
    And while the racist policies of Israel is hardly limited to black Jews, at nearly the same time that Sterling made this comment another related item was in the news.
    US Secretary of State John Kerry warned that if Israel did not make progress in a Middle East peace agreement then they would risk becoming an “apartheid state.”…
    But, followed by a high-profile NBA team owner attempting to justify his racism by pointing to that of the racism which exists in Israel today, as well as John Kerry’s apartheid remark, what is truly “the most disturbing aspect” of all of this is how the mainstream media in the West, and not just the New York Times, failed to connect these dots and start a discussion on Zionism and apartheid in Israel.
    https://www.nytexaminer.com/2014/04/the-connection-that-wasnt-made-sterling-kerry-and-israeli-apartheid/

  27. Thanks for your clarioty Duncan, seconded. It is not acceptable to paint all those who oppose Israels zionists from within with the same brush, an uncalled for comment here.

    We mmust be aware that loud voices against the continuing annexation and apartheid are heard, Israels population had enough of teasing talks of a peace that never comes.
    My position was always for one Palestine, that those who lived together once, could easily achieve this again in an equal society. Weren’t it for the segregatious talk and for elevating people like Zev Jablonski, when he preached racial superiority and argued for the ghettorisation of society, apartheid for those other thinking people.

    When Britain left Palestine, it left a battlefield too early when persistence and collaboration with the UN could have stopped arms coming into Palestine, dare I say the war with Jordan could have been prevented.
    Now we have a blood red blot on the global landscape and can only hope that these two factions, as part of a negotiated peace process, decide to school their children in the same schools again, a long term start for change, after all Sharon is dead and he was the one who stopped this simple measure.

  28. doooh, that is Zev Jabotinski I’m on about, sorry.

  29. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 9:13 am

    Ho hum.

    how the mainstream media in the West, and not just the New York Times, failed to connect these dots and start a discussion on Zionism and apartheid in Israel.

    Embedded PR. And what good would a discussion do? The legislators in the US, Dem and Rep, are deeply beholden to Jewish American donors pointed tactfully in their direction by AIPAC. When your campaign funds are dependent on not having a discussion, you don’t have a discussion. My belief is that if the US decided to withdraw its surging tides of aid to Israel, and insist it returned to something like its 1967 borders as a condition of (and before) any future support, the UK would wag its compliant tail and salute the decision, and the rest of Europe would not object. That is the only way a viable two-state solution could occur.

    Obviously, that isn’t going to happen. That is not the sort of two-state solution Likud and its even nastier allies envisage; nor is it Martin Indyk’s (the ex – AIPAC US negotiator with Kerry). Indyk is or was on the board of the New Israel Fund, which appears to support a unitary state with equal civil rights – fair enough. But it’s been got at- example from Wiki here:
    In 2003 and 2008, the Ford Foundation provided five-year grants worth $20 million each to NGOs in Israel through the New Israel Fund. The foundation was the focus of criticism because most of its donees are liberal. The foundation adopted new, stricter funding guidelines after the World Conference against Racism in Durban in 2001, when many of its recipients supported resolutions that equated Israeli policies with apartheid. At the beginning of the second five-year grant, the Ford Foundation said it would not renew its grants to Israeli NGOs, which had provided roughly one-third of the New Israel Fund’s donor-advised giving, citing its policy of creating sustainable funding, which is also being applied to much of its NGO funding worldwide.

    That necessary discussion…always mysteriously suppressed.

  30. Sofia Kibo Noh

    1 May, 2014 - 9:20 am

    Some green shoots: Palestinians celebrate Easter in reclaimed Galilee village.

    I love the picture of the women dancing.

    http://electronicintifada.net/content/palestinians-celebrate-easter-reclaimed-galilee-village/13339

  31. If there is ‘majority rule’ then the Israelis will still dominate and control.

    Latest Population Statistics for Israel
    (Updated March 2014)

    On the eve of the secular New Year 2014, Israel’s population stood at a record 8,132,000.

    The Jewish population makes up 6,102,000 (75.2%); 1,682,000 (20.6%) are Arabs; and, those identified as “others” (non-Arab Christians, Baha’i, etc) make up 348,000 people (4.2%). When the state was established, there were only 806,000 residents and the total population reached its first and second millions in 1949 and 1958 respectively.

    The overall population grew by approximately 147,000 people (1.8%) since the secular New Year 2013- a growth rate similar to that of the last decade.

    The Jewish population grew 1.8% (similar to past years) while the Arab population grew 2.4% (a rapid decline from the 3.4% annual growth rate in the 1990’s). The Christian population grew 1.3% and the Druze population grew 1.7%.

    /..

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/newpop.html

    Will the Israelis grant the right of return to the Palestinian diaspora estimated to be 4m? Probably not. And freedom to come and go?

  32. “…surging tides of aid to Israel…”

    Which today contribute a little over 1 per cent to Israel’s GDP, compared to nearly 15 per cent in the 1980s.

    More of a receding tide.

  33. Sofia Kibo Noh

    1 May, 2014 - 10:00 am

  34. LOL Not IDF glasses then?

    I was hearing of the virtues of Israeli technology yesterday. They produce some membrane that is laid under floor coverings in stately homes here and the like that prevents the build up of condensation and mildew. I assume it contains some form of heating element.

    Anyway it is an example of how proficient their propaganda machine is and how far it reaches.

  35. The BBC website says it all.

    Israel is a country

    Country profiles
    Countries
    Algeria
    Bahrain
    Egypt
    Iran
    Iraq
    Israel
    Jordan
    Kuwait
    Lebanon
    Libya
    Mauritania
    Morocco
    Oman
    Qatar
    Saudi Arabia
    Sudan
    Syria
    Tunisia
    United Arab Emirates
    Yemen

    Palestine is lumped with the Golan Heights under Territories. The words ‘illegally occupied’ are missing.

    Territories
    Golan Heights
    Palestinian territories

  36. Hi Mary, can you provide a link for this piece of propaganda you found concerning Israeli floor membranes? Is it a business and/or the government marketing Israeli products or something more sinister? Thanks in advance.

  37. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 10:20 am

    Yeah, yeah, Anon. But as it’s given by the US taxpayer from his/her earnings, it hardly qualifies as any part of Israeli GDP, does it?

    On the other hand, it’s around 10% of Israeli annual military expenditure – and it’s almost all military aid. And maybe we should factor in US support for the military dictatorship in Egypt which prevents those nasty tunnels into Sinai, and keeps the fish firmly in the Gaza barrel.

    From the US POV, it’s all highly profitable:

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf
    Some depressing figures there.

  38. U.S. aid to Israel totals $233.7b over six decades
    Moshe Arens: Generous assistance reflects common strategic interests and values, rather than lobbying pressure.
    Mar. 20, 2013

    The United States has provided Israel with $233.7 billion in aid ‏(after adjusting for inflation‏) since the state was formed in 1948 through the end of last year, research by TheMarker has found.

    http://www.haaretz.com/business/u-s-aid-to-israel-totals-233-7b-over-six-decades.premium-1.510592

    The aid has not declined. The value has because the Israel economy has grown.

    ‘The figures do not include loan guarantees amounting to about $19 billion that Washington has granted Israel in recent years to make it easier for it to borrow overseas. It also doesn’t include the transfer of surplus military equipment to Israel.’

  39. No sorry Anon. It came by word of mouth from a friend who had attended a course on building conservation.

    Did you perhaps want to obtain some? Mildew in the bathroom? Condensation dripping off the walls? If so, recommend letting in some fresh air and sunlight.

  40. Sofia Kibo Noh

    1 May, 2014 - 10:34 am

    Mary.

    Those 1DF Glasses are unreliable.

    Testimonies here from real IDF heros,

    http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database

    It seems humanity will break out in the bleakest of times.

    More dancing here. However, the IDF has said it is going to deal with the “incident” with the “utmost severity”.

  41. Two repsonses to my post of 9:58 am:

    K*modo, “yeah, yeah, Anon”, desperately trying to ramp up the fairly insignificant figure of US aid to Israel.

    Mary totting up all six decades of US aid to try and make it look more significant than it presently is.

    Perhaps Rehmat can help you both convey the “beholden” image more convincingly?

  42. Readers will note that I have had to use the word “K*modo” in place of the actual uncensored word for the lizard presently writing under the pseudonym Ba’al Zevul.

    The reason for this is that each time I use the full word my comment is flagged for moderation, but never released. Is the moderator beholden to the lizard and why I am I banned from writing his name?

    [craigmurray.org.uk – just use the current username so that other readers know who you’re replying to.]

  43. Training the little ones up.

    Too young for the Holocaust?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-27191263

    Take the ‘first grades’ to the Israeli prisons. Where torture was taking place, the screams could be muffled.

    List of prisons and detention centers
    North Bloc
    Carmel Prison (Oren Junction)
    Damun Prison
    Gilbo’a Prison (HaShita Junction)
    Hermon Prison (North Tzalmon Creek Junction)
    Megiddo Prison (Megiddo Junction)
    shita(shatta)Prison (HaShita Junction)
    Tzalmon Prison (North Tzalmon Creek Junction)
    Center Bloc
    Ashmoret Prison (HaSharon Junction)
    Ayalon Prison (Ramla)
    Giv’on Prison (Ramla)
    HaSharon Prison (Hadarim Interchange)
    Maasiyahu Prison (Ramla)
    Magen Prison (Ramla)
    Neve Tirtza Women’s Prison (Ramla)
    Ofek Juvenile Prison (Even Yehuda)
    Rimonim Prison (Even Yehuda)
    ofer Prison (West Bank, between Ramallah/Beituniya and Giv’at Ze’ev)
    South Bloc
    Dekel Prison
    Eshel Prison
    Ktzi’ot Prison (Ktzi’ot Junction)
    Nafha Prison
    ella Prison
    Ramon Prison
    Shikma Prison (Ashkelon)
    sharonim prison (Ktzi’ot Junction)
    Detention centers
    Eilat Detention Center
    Hadarim Detention Center
    Jerusalem Detention Center
    Kishon Detention Center
    Nitzan Detention Center
    Ohalei Kedar Detention Center
    Petah Tikva Detention Center
    Tel Aviv (Abu Kabir) Detention Center

    Ketziot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ktzi%27ot_Prison Historic but relevant. Note – no medical care. Also note G4S.

    I have read terrible stories of neglect of illness in Israeli prisons.

    Medical Negligence in Israeli Prisons
    http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2013/01/28/medical-negligence-in-israeli-prisons
    “Palestinians in Israeli prisons are grievously abused. Conditions resemble gulag hell. Treatment is deplorable. Fundamental human rights are violated.”

  44. Who or what is Rehmat? Is that another floor covering?

  45. Mary

    Am I right in assuming that your having never once commented on such minutiae as floor membrane technology propaganda of any one of the 184 countries featuring below Israel on the human rights index means that none of these has been able to produce anything worth marketing?

  46. “Training the little ones up. Too young for the Holocaust?”

    Mary, do you believe that the industrial-scale slaughter of 6 million Jews within living memory is not something worth educating future generations about?

  47. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 May, 2014 - 11:10 am

    Anon

    “Mary totting up all six decades of US aid to try and make it look more significant than it presently is.”
    ______________

    You’re of course right. The device of giving figures adjusted for inflation, eagerly cut and pasted by Mary:

    “The United States has provided Israel with $233.7 billion in aid ‏(after adjusting for inflation‏) since the state was formed in 1948 through the end of last year,…”

    is risible and meaningless.

    You might as well say that US govt Federal spending over the last 50 years – adjusted for inflation – was……

    Or UK NHS expenditure since 1948 – adjusted for inflation – was ……

  48. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 11:24 am

    Try calling me “Ba’al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)”, and it will all be fine, Anon.

    One of Quentin Letts’ “50 People Who Buggered Up Britain” is Anon, by the way. I do hope you’re not using someone else’s nick.

    Your attempt to minimise the extent of US aid to Israel by using the largest and least meaningful economic measure, GDP, as a standard, does not pass unnoticed. GDP includes every transaction taking place in an economy, and is routinely exaggerated by governments in the interests of good news. Comparison with Israel’s – grossly swollen – military budget is far more meaningful. Or with US aid to Palestinians, which I see Ron Paul is proposing to remove completely. Or we might try $Bn3.15 per annum per capita for the population of Israel: about $387.00. Annually. Discount the Arabs and Beduin against whom Israel’s military is routinely deployed, and you’re looking at $500 a head for the rest. Beats the UK’s cold weather heating allowance, dunnit?

    Less quantifiable is the formal designation by the US of Israel as a favoured non-Nato ally, which allows it privileges which even the UK does not enjoy, in terms of arms sales in both directions, and the probability that clandestine, off-the-books assistance to maintain Israel as a regional pustule bumps the figure up much further.

  49. Anon, I think future generations should be taught about all holocausts, and all illegal military acts of aggression, like this one:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9740044/The-cowardice-at-the-heart-of-our-relationship-with-Israel.html

    virtual extermination of an indigenous race like this one:

    http://agreenroad.blogspot.ca/2013/05/19-to-100-million-native-american.html

    We never hear, or hardly ever hear, about the above holocaust, or the ones in Asia and Australasia, but hear ad-nauseum about the NAZI holocaust.

    They should be taught that all these acts of extermination are wrong. They should also be taught that holocausts are not weapons with which to divert from other evils, as this Jewish lady claims is happening.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-GVXunrbE4

    “It’s a trick. We always use it,” she says, referring to the holocaust card. So this should be taught too alongside the history, how Israeli (or other) politicians use historical incidents to divert from criticism of Israeli acts of aggression or land grab.

  50. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 11:35 am

    And where does some of that aid go?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Iran_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war

    Hmmm.

    Despite all the speeches of Iranian leaders and the denunciation of Israel at Friday prayers, there were never less than around one hundred Israeli advisers and technicians in Iran at any time throughout the war, living in a carefully guarded and secluded camp just north of Tehran, where they remained even after the ceasefire.[10]

    In August 1982 Aerospace Daily reported that Israel’s support was “crucial” to keeping Iran’s air force flying against Iraq. Israeli sales also included spare parts for U.S.-made F-4 Phantom jets. Newsweek also reported that after an Iranian defector landed his F-4 Phantom jet in Saudi Arabia in 1984, intelligence experts determined that many of its parts had originally been sold to Israel, and had then been re-exported to Tehran in violation of U.S. law.[5] (Wiki)

    Hmmm again.

  51. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 11:43 am

  52. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 11:48 am

  53. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 12:31 pm

    Excellent link, John. So good they post it twice:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9740044/The-cowardice-at-the-heart-of-our-relationship-with-Israel.html

    And Oborne’s no bleeding-heart liberal, either. That will be read and reflected on.

  54. what I like about the link to the Telegraphs article, are the explicitly placed excusary links next to the article,
    as if to say, ‘yeah but’look at Ariel Sharons life,
    look at how Israel releases prisoners, ahhhh,
    see how hard it is to be a settler in the ovccupied territories, ahhh,
    and ,off course, two references to stories about Obama’s presence, together with Bibi, our best mate….

    Peter Oborne must face a lot of internal criticism over his excellently researched articles.

  55. Truth will out. Sorry for the O/T — just had to share!

    Qatari crazies or Maidan brownshirts? “We” are not fussy.

    Proxy forces wanted for regime change. Twisted ideology desirable but not essential. Must have clean driving licence.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

  56. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 1:42 pm

    Wonder if the US paid for this?

    http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=693711

    “Gaza’s Ark” blown up and sunk.

  57. Maybe indirectly, Ba’al, but it was an act of cowardice at a time when sour grapes make for bad indigestion so it seems.

    Since Hamas and Fatah are talking unity, these mangey acts, carried out in secretive desperation, resemble an inner self erupting, the ugly spots of fascism are now openly popping their visceral puss all over Bibi’s face.

    Now going to give the hedge its first, and looking at how things are developing in the Ukraine, hopefully not its last, cut of the year.

  58. Anon ‘Too young for the Holocaust?’ was the BBC headline if you would like to check the link.

    Yes tell the children about ALL the holocausts not just THE holocaust which is always spelt with a capital H. How about Vilnai’s ‘greater shoah’ on Gaza, Cast Lead too?

    Thanks for that link John. The Jewish lady Shulamit Aloni is probably described as a ‘self hating Jew’ just as Gilad Atzmon is called. He and the others must have a terrible time of it. Gilad has just put this YT up of a performance artist, also Jewish, at Yad Vashem. A brave young woman. She is ‘The Holocaust’.

    ביקור השואה ביד ושם The Holocaust’s visit to Yad Vashem
    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/must-watch-the-holocausts-visit-to-yad-vashem.html

  59. Jimmy Carter wrote a book entitled “Palestine – Peace not Apartheid” (ISBN 1847391540).

  60. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 2:57 pm

    I was merely taunting Anon, Nevermind. Who has forgotten that this week’s hasbara meme is in fact “Israel isn’t an apartheid state” and is going with last June’s* “The US doesn’t give us enough and we are under constant assault from MILLIONS OF ROCKETS”.
    You’re quite right. The spitefulness index has reached a high point since the Pals decided to bypass their enemies and go straight to the UN.

    *or was it July? Whatever.

  61. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 May, 2014 - 2:57 pm

    “Yes tell the children about ALL the holocausts not just THE holocaust which is always spelt with a capital H. How about Vilnai’s ‘greater shoah’ on Gaza, Cast Lead too?”
    ____________________-

    You do your cause a disservice, Mary. At least to the people who still inhabit the real world.

    THE Holocaust —– how many people?

    Cast Lead —– how many people?

  62. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 May, 2014 - 3:12 pm

    Ba’al Zevul opines

    “Your attempt to minimise the extent of US aid to Israel by using the largest and least meaningful economic measure, GDP, as a standard, does not pass unnoticed.”
    __________________

    Congratulations on your vigilance, you old devil, but why do you opine that GDP is the “least meaningful” economic measure?

    If you’re not sure, you might for instance ask the UN, the EU and the G8, all of whom have asked developed countries to commit to giving 0,8% of their GDP as development aid. Yup, you read right – that “meaningless” GDP.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “GDP includes every transaction taking place in an economy,…”

    _________________

    Given that US aid to Israel is both civilian and military, what is your point?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “Comparison with Israel’s – grossly swollen – military budget is far more meaningful.”

    __________________

    Given that US aid to Israel is both civilian and military, why is a comparison with only Israeli military expenditure “more meaningful”?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “Or with US aid to Palestinians,….”

    ______________________

    Irrelevant to a discussion about which Israeli category of spending US aid should be compared with.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Conclusion: if your post was intended to rubbish Anon’s excellent post then I’m afraid, my dear K*mo*do, that you have (again) failed miserably.

  63. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 May, 2014 - 3:21 pm

    Hab; Are you fresh from the Lodge? We still want to know if you are a freemason.

  64. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 May, 2014 - 3:30 pm

    Maybe you’re just a Rotarian, but we would still like to know.

  65. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 May, 2014 - 3:32 pm

    I suspect you may be in this range of the Hierarchy.

    9th: Master Elect of Nine
    10th: Illustrious Master Elect of Fifteen
    11th: Sublime Knight (Sometimes referred to as “Chevalier Elect”)
    12th: Grand Master Architect
    13th: Royal Arch of Enoch
    14th: Scottish Knight of Perfection
    15th: Knight of the Sword and of the East
    16th: Prince of Jerusalem
    17th: Knight of the East and West
    18th: Knight of the Eagle and Pelican and Sovereign Prince Rose Croix of Heredom
    19th: Grand Pontiff
    20th: Venerable Grand Master
    21st: Patriarch Noachite (Sometimes called the “Prussian Chevalier”)
    22nd: Prince of Libanus (also known as “Royal Hatchet”)
    23rd: Chief of the Tabernacle
    24th: Prince of the Tabernacle
    25th: Chevalier of the Brazen Serpent

  66. Apartheid South Africa. Many illustrations of the public notices that were displayed.

    Apartheid South Africa (1948-1994)

    “We speak out to put the world on guard against what is happening in South Africa. The brutal policy of apartheid is applied before the eyes of the nations of the world. The peoples of Africa are compelled to endure the fact that on the African continent the superiority of one race over another remains official policy, and that in the name of this racial superiority murder is committed with impunity. Can the United Nations do nothing to stop this?”

    — Che Guevara, speech to the United Nations as Cuba’s representative, December 11, 1964

    http://espressostalinist.com/genocide/apartheid-south-africa/

  67. H’s avatar is quite cute. In Israeli website blue for a start and that little square window in the centre is reminiscent of Playschool…. ‘Which window will it be today children?’ ‘It’s through the square window…..’

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/classic/playschool/game.shtml

  68. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 3:46 pm

    I gather the Great Unwatched is with us again, Ben. The Superb Klingon of the Dustpan and Brush with A Caesar Salad On The Side, perhaps.

  69. doug scorgie

    1 May, 2014 - 3:48 pm

    Habbakuk, a number of posts from you, and the other friends of Zion, on this thread and not one of the points that Craig mentions on this topic have been addressed by you.

    This is because you and your fellow Zionist supporters have no rational argument

  70. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 4:00 pm

    The FY2014 Consolidated Appropriations Act (P.L. 113-76) provides the President’s full $3.1 billion request in FMF for Israel. In addition, it provides another $504 million in funding for research, development, and production of Israel’s Iron Dome anti-rocket system ($235 million)and of the joint U.S.-Israel missile defense systems David’s Sling ($149.7 million), the Arrow improvement program (or Arrow II, $44.3 million), and Arrow III ($74.7 million).

    For FY2015, the Administration is requesting $3.1 billion in FMF to Israel and $10 million in Migration and Refugee Assistance. The Missile Defense Agency’s FY2015 request for joint U.S.-Israeli programs is $96.8 million. The Administration also is requesting $175.9 million for Iron Dome.

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

  71. “THE Holocaust —– how many people?

    Cast Lead —– how many people?”

    So you can continue murdering Palestinian civilians until you reach 6 million? Then it becomes — what? — quite a bad thing?

    What a squalid inhuman mindset.

  72. “Or we might try $Bn3.15 per annum per capita for the population of Israel: about $387.00. Annually. Discount the Arabs and Beduin against whom Israel’s military is routinely deployed, and you’re looking at $500 a head for the rest. Beats the UK’s cold weather heating allowance, dunnit?”

    Full marks for trying hard, K*modo, but you haven’t addressed my point. You said there were “surging tides” of US aid to Israel. I pointed out that today it constitutes a little over 1 per cent of the economy, compared to nearly 15 per cent 30 years ago. Numerous posts since and your position now seems to be, “But it’s a lot anyway!”.

    NB: Dividing a fairly insignificant figure of government income amongst the population, Jewish or otherwise, to create a figure as if it were cash given to each citizen, as you have done, is a pretty dishonest way of trying to prove your point.

  73. “[craigmurray.org.uk – just use the current username so that other readers know who you’re replying to.]”

    I think other readers know well enough. Smacks of a rather too cosy relationship between K***** and the Mod if you ask me..

  74. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 May, 2014 - 4:23 pm

    http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1643.cfm

    THE SOLOMON TEMPLE IS THE HEART AND SOUL OF FREEMASONRY!

    Now that we have amply demonstrated that the genuine Christian has no close affinity to Solomon’s Temple, because He destroyed it and annulled the Levitical Priesthood that accompanied it, let us examine how important this temple is to the practice of the Masonic religion.

    “Of all the objects which constitute the Masonic science of symbolism, the most important, the most cherished, by the Mason, and by far the most significant, is the Temple of Jerusalem. The spiritualizing of the Temple is the first, the most prominent and the most pervading, of all symbols of Freemasonry … Take from Freemasonry its dependence on the Temple; leave out of its ritual all references to that sacred edifice, and to the legends and traditions connected with it, and the system itself would at once decay and die … ” [“Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry”, by Albert Mackey, MD, 33º and Charles T. McClenachan, 33º, Revised Edition, by Edward L. Hawkins, 30º and William J. Hughan, 32º, Volume II, M-Z, published by The Masonic History Company, Chicago, New York, London, 1873, A.G. Mackey, 1927, by the Masonic History Company.]

    Let us repeat the critical understanding that the noted 33º Masonic author, Albert Mackey, has just given us:

    “Take from Freemasonry its dependence on the Temple; leave out of its ritual all references to that sacred edifice, and to the legends and traditions connected with it, and the system itself would at once decay and die … ”

    Where would they rebuild it? Oh yeah, on the rubble of the Dome of the Rock.

    Palestinians-Go suck on a Rock !

  75. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 4:30 pm

    Full marks for trying hard, Ba’al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites), but you haven’t addressed my point.

    But I did. Your point was that US military aid was a small percentage of Israeli GDP. My response is that this is a dishonest way of looking at it. What concerns you, manifestly, is that the US might be induced to remove this tiny and negligible sum, which would then leave you wholly at the mercy of evil Iran, so finely as your budget is balanced. At not 10%, but nearly 20%, my mistake, of Israel’s total military expenditure, which is heavily subsidised in additional ways by the US taxpayer, maybe that isn’t a truthful interpretation of its insignificance, either.

    IOW, if it’s such a fleabite, why humiliate yourselves for begging for it every year? Mmm?

    I think this is a very sensitive point, and Netanyahu is terrified that US taxpayers will finally wake up to what their government is doing with their money. As, I suspect, you are.

  76. Ba'al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites)

    1 May, 2014 - 4:32 pm

    I think other readers know well enough. Smacks of a rather too cosy relationship between K***** and the Mod if you ask me..

    We don’t. But do dig yourself in deeper by explaining.

  77. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 May, 2014 - 6:05 pm

    Mike

    OK, I know you’re not being serious – just trying to wind me up – but I’ll still grace you with a reply. ‘Cos I’m a tolerant sort of guy (but less tolerant than Craig, it’s true).

    It just seems a little silly to contest the exceptional nature of the Holocaust (around 5-6 million killed?) by putting it in the same bracket or category as Cast Lead (1.500 killed?), which is what Mary’s post did.

  78. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 May, 2014 - 6:13 pm

    Anon

    Sorry you’re having to bear the brunt of Ba’al K. Zevul’s foolishness today.

    I’d happily share that burden with you, but for some inexplicable reason Mr Zevul appears unwilling to enter into the lists with me by responding to the eminently reasonable questions I put to him at 15h12.

    *******************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  79. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 May, 2014 - 6:24 pm

    Ben

    I’m afraid I find myself in none of those categories, but perhaps some of the Eminences would fit the bill?

    “21st: Patriarch Noachite (Sometimes called the “Prussian Chevalier”)” – that has to be Nevermind, nicht wahr?

    “25th: Chevalier of the Brazen Serpent” – certainly Mr Douglas Scorgie (I shall be polite and not name the Brazen Serpent..)

    “13th: Royal Arch of Enoch” – (an inverted) Guano ?

    “19th: Grand Pontiff(icator) – Mr Goss, of course.

    “10th: Illustrious Master Elect of Fifteen (Eminenecs) – Ba’al K. Zevul

    You missed out the 40th rank, however. That is

    “40th: Bluntest Knife” – Macky.

  80. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 May, 2014 - 6:31 pm

    “H’s avatar is quite cute.”
    ________________

    You’re right, but I get enough of blue when I’m gambolling around on the beach all summer, beach volleying, beach tennis, yacking away, swimming and so on.

    Had I had the choice, I would have gone for a tasteful blood red frieze surrounding a vignette of Don Lope Aguirre, who is one of my heroes and who moreover was memorably played by my late acquaintance Klaus Kinski.

  81. It’s simply a question of means, Habby. If there was a magic button that Bibi could press to get rid of every Palestinian, I have little doubt that he would press it immediately. Hitler/Himmler/whoever would have done exactly the same to the Jews, and a number of other ethnic groups.

    There is an equivalence between these dehumanising viewpoints.

  82. doug scorgie

    1 May, 2014 - 6:51 pm

    Four more posts from Habbubkuk and not a word about the points Craig made on The Apartheid Israel Poison Is Out

    Why not Habbabkuk?

  83. May 1, 2014
    Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters and Nick Mason: Why Rolling Stones shouldn’t play in Israel

    Band’s founding members come together to argue in favor of the BDS movement — and urge the Stones to reconsider
    http://www.salon.com/2014/05/01/pink_floyds_roger_waters_and_nick_mason_why_rolling_stones_shouldnt_play_in_israel/

    ‘With the recent news that the Rolling Stones will be playing their first-ever concert in Israel, and at what is a critical time in the global struggle for Palestinian freedom and equal rights, we, the two surviving founders of Pink Floyd, have united in support of Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS), a growing, nonviolent global human rights movement initiated by Palestinian civil society in 2005 to end Israel’s occupation, racial discrimination and denial of basic Palestinian rights.

    The BDS movement is modeled on the successful nonviolent movements that helped end Jim Crow in the American South and apartheid in South Africa. Indeed, key figures who led the South African freedom struggle, like Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Mandela’s close associate, Ahmed Kathrada, have come out in support of BDS for Palestinian rights. BDS offers us all a way to nonviolently pressure the Israeli government to fully realize that its injustices against the Palestinian people are legally and morally unacceptable and unsustainable.

    The movement does not advocate a particular political framework — one state or two — and neither do we. Rather, we call for a resolution that upholds freedom, justice and equal rights for all, irrespective of identity, and does not cause additional suffering for either people.

    So, to the bands that intend to play Israel in 2014, we urge you to reconsider. Playing Israel now is the moral equivalent of playing Sun City at the height of South African apartheid; regardless of your intentions, crossing the picket line provides propaganda that the Israeli government will use in its attempts to whitewash the policies of its unjust and racist regime.’

    ~~~

    Well said.

  84. “We, the two surviving founders of Pink Floyd, have united in support of Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS)”

    Oh Dear God. Just read it again. Can’t these luvvies stick to whatever they do?

  85. doug scorgie

    1 May, 2014 - 7:39 pm

    Anon
    1 May, 2014 – 7:21 pm

    “We, the two surviving founders of Pink Floyd, have united in support of Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS)”

    “Oh Dear God. Just read it again. Can’t these luvvies stick to whatever they do?”

    At least your consistent in sticking to what you do Anon – talk bollocks.

    Do you not have any comments on Craig’s post: The Apartheid Israel Poison Is Out?

    Thought not.

  86. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 May, 2014 - 7:58 pm

    Mike

    “If there was a magic button that Bibi could press to get rid of every Palestinian, I have little doubt that he would press it immediately. Hitler/Himmler/whoever would have done exactly the same to the Jews, and a number of other ethnic groups.”

    _________________

    That’s what’s called a “procès d’intention”, isn’t it. Look, you may well be right but we simply don’t know. When we’re making comparisons, as Mary did, I don’t think we should base ourselves on what we think the exterminators might have done/might do if they had had/will have the chance. But we can base ourselves somewhat more solidly on other elements such as numbers. In any case, the expression “Holocaust” has come to denote the Jewish exterminations, whether you like it or not and whatever the reason was, and it is not going to go away however much you might complain about it (like Israel itself for that matter). Given that there are at least half a dozen perfectly usable other expressions to denote Cast Lead and similar events, there are not even linguistic reasons for insisting that Cast Lead was a “Holocaust”.

  87. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 May, 2014 - 8:05 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    When was the last time you made a sensible post with some serious content?

  88. Israeli word choice provides fodder

    March 02, 2008|Ashraf Khalil | Times Staff Writer

    JERUSALEM — The Hebrew word shoah, or holocaust, is not used casually in Israeli society. Occasionally, it is employed to denote a massive disaster.

    This weekend, though, Arab politicians and international pro-Palestinian activists, seizing on a comment by an Israeli minister, are calling the bloody Israeli incursion in the Gaza Strip a holocaust.

    In what may prove to be a significant miscalculation, Israeli Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai on Friday used the term in warning of more military action in Gaza.

    By allowing constant rocket barrages from Gaza on nearby Israeli cities, the Palestinians, Vilnai said, were “bringing upon themselves a greater shoah because we will use all our strength in every way we deem appropriate, whether in airstrikes or on the ground.”

    As the three-day death toll in Gaza climbed toward triple digits, senior Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal accused Israel of “implementing a real holocaust against the Palestinian people for the past 60 years. What is happening today in Gaza is a new holocaust.”

    The nongovernmental Palestinian Information Center issued a statement calling Vilnai’s words “the first indirect admission by an Israeli official that what Israel is conducting against the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip is a holocaust, albeit a slow-motion one.”

    Given the Arab reaction and the rising Palestinian death toll, Vilnai’s use of the word is proving controversial within Israel as well.

    As one Israeli commentator put it on a weblog: “This is a disastrous case of the foot-in-mouth disease, all too common among the contemporary breed of Israeli politicians. Terrible timing, too.”

    Vilnai’s aides released a statement saying the former career army officer had only meant to imply a disaster. Others defended him as a victim of sloppy out-of-context translation.

    Tom Gross, a media affairs columnist for the conservative National Review Online, said there was a major difference between “a shoah” and “THE shoah.”

    “It is like confusing a ‘white house’ with ‘The White House,’ ” Gross wrote.

    At the very least, Vilnai’s comment has opened a new front in the Middle East rhetorical war, with critics of Israeli actions in the Palestinian territories apparently seeing it as license to use the word at will.

    Critics have compared the Israeli government to the Nazis and termed the barrier being built through the West Bank an “apartheid wall.” But they generally avoided invoking the word “holocaust” in describing the plight of the Palestinians.

    But Saturday, even Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, a bitter rival of the Islamic movement Hamas, called the Israeli incursion into Hamas-run Gaza “more than a holocaust.”

    In Egypt, Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohammed Mahdi Akef issued a statement condemning the Gaza operation and adding, “I will quote the Israeli Defense minister as describing it as a holocaust.”

    Mashaal, the senior Hamas leader, used the term multiple times while speaking to reporters from Damascus, Syria, where he lives in exile. He accused Israel of exploiting the memory of the Holocaust to “blackmail the world” and justify its actions in the Palestinian territories.

    “Israel wants to exaggerate the Holocaust when it comes to numbers and make from it a tragedy such that no other can have their own tragedy,” he said. “The Palestinian people are the victims, and Israel is the hangman and killer.”


    http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/02/world/fg-holocaust2
    ashraf.khalil@latimes.com

    Oops!

    The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστος holókaustos: hólos, “whole” and kaustós, “burnt”) also known as Shoah (Hebrew: השואה, HaShoah, “the catastrophe”; Yiddish: חורבן, Churben or Hurban, from the Hebrew for “destruction”), ……

  89. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 May, 2014 - 9:09 pm

    It certainly is sensible to ask; “Hab; have you ascended with Enoch yet? Are you a Mason??

  90. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 May, 2014 - 9:13 pm

    I suggest that henceforth, since Hab sees only rhetorical questions evidenced by the deafening silence, that we have respect for his evasiveness with a similar silence.

  91. had almost given up watching Aljaz, but then along comes this truly EXTRAORDINARY film:

    25 mins VIDEO: Aljazeera: Israel’s drone dealers
    People and Power investigates how Israeli drone technology came to be used
    by the US
    It’s a fair assumption then that most people would also think that the US
    had developed this technology in the first place, and that the use of drones
    for “targeted assassinations” was a tactic wholly of America’s devising.
    But they’d be wrong.
    Well before Sept. 11, and well before the US even thought of sending a
    missile-laden Predator to take out an enemy, the Israeli Defence Force (IDF)
    was using UAVs to track down Palestinian and Hezbollah “terrorists” and
    Israeli aeronautic and arms manufacturers were creating a thriving,
    export-driven drones industry off the back of this strategy…
    During
    Operation Cast Lead, for example, which the rest of the world knows as the
    2008-09 Gaza War, drones were crucial in identifying and hitting targets.
    Commercially, this appears to have given the Israeli arms industry an
    unparalleled advantage in a rapidly expanding market. In the last five years
    Israel has become the world’s biggest UAV exporte, with Israeli drones being
    used by six NATO armies in Afghanistan…
    Israeli filmmaker, Yotam Feldman, who produced this investigation of “Israel’s
    Drone Dealers” for People and Power, asked van Creveld to clarify this
    remark.
    “You say, ‘it’s not enough to kill people in Gaza with drones, you have to
    kill them yourself, in order to call yourself a warrior’?”
    “Well, yes,” the historian replied. “Otherwise you are a butcher. That’s
    exactly the difference between a soldier and a butcher. A soldier puts his
    own life at risk, a butcher doesn’t.”…
    Little of this seems to bother the customers from the US, UK, Canada,
    France, Australia, Germany, Spain, Brazil and India who have all bought
    Israel’s battle hardened’ UAV technology for their own use. As explained by
    one anonymous German air force pilot who was training on a recently
    purchased Israeli drone, “This is a really capable system, and it’s a proven
    system, and right now it gives us the basic capabilities that we need.”
    That, for now at least, seems to be sufficient justification.
    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/peopleandpower/2014/04/201442911431250545.html

  92. doug scorgie

    1 May, 2014 - 10:51 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    1 May, 2014 – 8:05 pm

    “Mr Scorgie”
    “When was the last time you made a sensible post with some serious content?”

    Answer Habbabkuk:

    Doug Scorgie
    30 Apr, 2014 – 6:17 pm

    Anyone who knows the history of Zionism, the creation of Israel and the Palestinian struggle that says a two state solution is, or ever was viable, is dishonest in the extreme.

    It was never on the cards.

    I don’t believe (and I live in hope) that there ever will be a “Jewish state” run by Jews for the benefit of Jews.

    Zionism is by its very nature a racist ideology and no other country should recognise Israel as a Jewish state.

    You cannot have a Jewish AND democratic state, it’s an oxymoron.

    There can only be a one state solution based on equality and democracy for all the citizens.

    A problem that the Israeli government would face in a future one state democracy is terrorism; not from Palestinians, but Zionist Jews within the extremist “settlers” and “pioneers”.

    A situation entirely created by the Zionists themselves.

    PS I note you didn’t take me to task on the above.

  93. BrianFujisan

    1 May, 2014 - 11:31 pm

    Aye Mary Great stuff from the Floyd Boys…

    Heres some more on u.s terror aid to israel

    Since the mid-1990s, according to the Congressional Research Report, ‘US Foreign Aid to the Palestinians’, dated September 30, 2013, the US has committed (note: the report does not say ‘sent’) $5 billion dollars to Palestine. That, of course, sounds like a great deal of money, but that sum must be put into context. Since 1987, the US has sent over $3 billion dollars to Israel, every year. So if we assume that ‘the mid-1990s’ means 1995, Palestine was scheduled to receive an average of $158 million each year, or about $433,000 a day. Israel, receiving $3 billion a year, averages about $9 million a day, most of it in military aid. During fiscal year 2013, while the US was busy giving Israel its nearly $9 million dollars a day in military aid, the sum given to Palestine for military aid was $0.

    As a result of this generous largess by the US, Israel has the most sophisticated weapons of offense and defense that exist in the world today. Palestinians, on the other hand, are occasionally able to cobble together sufficient supplies to make a few bottle rockets.

    At least partly because of this unspeakable inequality by the U.S, since 2000, 1,109 Israelis have been killed in conflicts with Palestinians, yet 6,862 Palestinians have been killed. Among the population of children, 129 Israeli children have died, and at least 1,523 Palestinian children have been killed by Israel. In that time period, 8550 Israelis have been injured. This is compared to 54,761 Palestinians injured in that same time. Palestine currently detains no Israelis, yet 5,224 Palestinians are incarcerated in Israeli prisons. Going back further, since 1967, at least 27,000 Palestinian homes have been destroyed by Israel. No Israeli homes have been destroyed by Palestine.

    Full piece @

    http://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/how-israel-actively-pursues-the-complete-annihilation-of-palestine#.U2LKLoFdWqg

  94. oddie 1 May, 2014 – 10:48 pm

    They build the engines for drones at Shenstone, near Lichfield. I’ve protested against this drone manufacturer more than once.

    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2013/05/24/drones-the-global-empires-current-weapon-of-choice/

  95. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    2 May, 2014 - 7:40 am

    Mr Scorgie (22h51)

    No, Doug, you didn’t read my question carefully enough – I was asking for a SENSIBLE post with some SERIOUS CONTENT. Feel free to have another go.

    *******************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  96. BrianFujisan 1 May, 2014 – 11:31 pm

    Thanks for those figures Brian. Disproportionate response appears, as Peter Oborne has shown, to be the Israeli government’s way of doing things. When William Hague, who few would accuse of being moderate, used the word ‘disproportionate’ for the Israeli response of murdering up to 1000 Yemeni people, Conservative Party donations form the Zionist lobby ceased. This is how politics is done by the Zionist/Neocon groups.

  97. Duncan McFarlane and Technicolour, I ignored your mutual comments of agreement at me being ‘anti-semitic’ as you would like others to believe, but feel I ought to explain why. Firstly, and this happens so often on this blog, I said, ““Not all Jewish people are bad and I know there is a Jewish man helping children get to school by his presence I saw on one video. Unfortunately he is in a minority.”

    By the time it got to Technicolour’s brain it had changed to:

    “Not all Jewish people are bad, but most are?” and Technicolour had changed a totally innocuous statement into a conflict, adding “How dare you!” to give it emphasis. This is Animal Farm. The original notice being something like “No animal can sleep in beds” but when Snowball died and the bad pigs took power they added: “No animal can sleep in beds, except pigs.” This is how politicians distort facts to make people appear to have said something they have not.

    I perhaps should have used the word Israeli rather than Jewish, but his nationality might have been obvious since he was helping Palestinian children get to school. It was an act of kindness that demonstrates that in Israel/Palestine there are Jewish people prepared, at no small cost to themselves, to stand against authority and and do the decent thing. Technicolour tried to turn this into a racist comment from me. I doubt there is anybody who comments here who has been more supportive of Jewish people of whom I approve, like Aaron Russo and the Jewish lady in a comment on this thread who talked about how Israel uses the Holocaust card in debate. And only five days ago I posted this comment about Aaron Swarz.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/oops-can-anyone-help/#comment-454504

    Though I ignored it because it was Technicolour but I was surprised to see intelligent people like Clark and Duncan McFarlane taken in by Technicolour’s attempt to turn my comment into racist abuse, so thought I ought to say, and most people already know this, I am not racist towards Jews, or Semites, or Africans, or Chinese, or Americans or any other nationality. I just like to see justice done.

  98. Perhaps had I written “Not all Jewish people are bad and I know there is a Jewish man helping children get to school by his presence I saw on one video. Unfortunately he is in a minority in helping Palestinian children get safely to school” it would have taken away Technicolour’s attempt to make people believe I am racist towards Jews.

  99. Ba'al Zevul (Ba'ali Nomates)

    2 May, 2014 - 10:23 am

    It’s apartheid all right. Outgoing UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk presents his final report:

    http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/News/6061/21/Falk-on-Israel–It%E2%80%99s-apartheid.aspx

    “Through prolonged occupation, with practices and policies of apartheid and segregation, ongoing expansion of settlements, and continual construction of the wall arguably amounting to de facto annexation of parts of the occupied Palestinian territory; the denial by Israel of the right to self-determination of the Palestinian people is evident.” Israel’s violations of Palestinians human rights are “deliberate, organised and institutionalised”, writes the special rapporteur.

  100. Sofia Kibo Noh

    2 May, 2014 - 10:51 am

    Fact: Palestinian chilren are regularly attacked by Jewish settlers on the way to school.

    http://www.teachersolidarity.com/blog/palestinian-children-attacked-on-their-way-to-school

    Fact: Numerous Jewish people, both secular and religious, oppose the illegal acts done in their name and have the integtity and guts take a stand for Palestinians.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW7mJlcU1vY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuAZ_kJ0j6I

    Fact: There is a “Hasbara” industry dedicated to attacking anyone who dare’s question the actions of the Zionist entity.

    Legend has it that one of LBJ wanted to spread the story that his opponent liked to have sex with pigs. When his aides doubted the story Johnson is said to have replied, “I know that. I just want to hear him deny it.”

    John. What was this doing in your “Girlfriends” folder?

    http://media.photobucket.com/user/3M-TA3/media/3M-TA3/funnyMISSPIGGY.jpg.html?filtersterm=miss%20piggy&filtersprimary=images&filterssecondary=videos&sort=1&o=3

    I think you need to change your passwords.

  101. technicolour

    2 May, 2014 - 4:03 pm

    John Goss: you mean that if you had written something less appalling it would have been less appalling. Right.

    As it is, I see your phrase “Not all Jewish people are bad” still stands. Have you asked yourself yet what kind of person would say “Not all Muslim people are bad”, or “Not all Irish people are bad”?. Said without humour, it is either hysterically crass, or outrageous in its implication that while ‘not all’ of ‘them’ are bad, most are. While I would have been happy to give you the benefit of the doubt and opt for the former, the latter was unpleasantly reinforced by your pointing out that your selected ‘good’ one is in the minority. I see you now qualify this by saying ‘in the minority of people prepared to escort Palestinian children to school’. He is, however, far from being alone. Have you, as Duncan Macfarlane clearly has, done any research into the size and scale of resistance movements inside and outside Israel? Or even the results of recent Knesset elections? Clearly not.

    The brutal and murderous actions of the Israeli government are one thing. The berating and finger pointing at anyone linked to Judaism with whom the writer disagrees is another. Your own, even modified, stance – which judges people as an entity, rather than seeing them as people first and foremost – people just like you, in fact – does not, I’m afraid, advance humanity one iota.

    I did not use the terms ‘anti-semitic’ or ‘racist’ though it clearly suits you to pretend I did. The sinister meme of ‘them’, however – it can overwhelm.

  102. Technicolour, you misconstrued totally. What I wrote was not appalling. Only to your interpretation of it and deliberate attempt to berate me and turn me into somebody who has no sympathy for decent Jewish people, when the whole point was exactly the opposite and indeed what you have written above, “people just like you, in fact”. I would like to think if it came to it I would have the courage of the one man, there was only one in the video, who put his own safety at risk to protect children going to school. Not only did you misconstrue that the minority applied to this, you also misconstrued the first part of the comment. To make it perfectly clear it would have been better prefixed by, “Despite what people say” or “Despite what people say on this blog . . .” even. Comments are written hurriedly and there are no edit facilities. But you, with Duncan McFarlane’s assistance, and it was he who labelled me as anti-semitic, you have tried to make me out to be something I am not. Habbabkuk used to do this, and I am beginning to wonder where you are coming from!

  103. doug scorgie

    2 May, 2014 - 6:23 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    2 May, 2014 – 7:40 am

    “Mr Scorgie (22h51)”

    “No, Doug, you didn’t read my question carefully enough – I was asking for a SENSIBLE post with some SERIOUS CONTENT. Feel free to have another go.”

    I’ve had a go Habbabkuk, now it’s your turn.

    Either, address the points Craig made here, or argue against what I said.

    You are an ardent Zionist Habbabkuk but with no ability to justify your position.

    The same goes for your playfellows on this blog.

    Where are they all?

  104. technicolour

    2 May, 2014 - 8:28 pm

    John Goss: I can hardly apologise for ‘misconstruing’ your comment, since you appear to have written precisely the opposite of what you think. As for your suggested amendments: “Despite what people say (on this blog), not all Jewish people are bad” – how does “Despite what people say about black people, not all black people are bad” sound to you as an opening line? I don’t think following that with an example of a black person being ‘good’ would ameliorate matters much, either.

    But I’m happy to accept that you didn’t, actually, mean to say what you said, although you seem to still be vaguely trying to say it. I do think you are in danger of gazing for too long into the abyss of Israeli (and US and UK and Egypt etc) government policy. Philosophy aside, if you did some research – followed up Duncan’s suggestions for example – I think you would be heartened by general results which, quite specifically, demonstrate the sheer absurdity, as well as sheer wickedness, of anyone trying to classify people as “all bad”. Or indeed, ‘mostly bad’. As to holding up an example of an extremely brave person (the man who accompanies Palestinian children to school) and then judging the rest of their society by them; I would hesitate, unless I were someone who had, say, attempted to disable a B52 before the Iraq attack?

    As to where I’m coming from, it should be obvious: I’m sure that, like you, I object to people making ill-informed and/or malicious generalisations about any creed, colour, race, nationality, gender, class, tribe, family, or person. Vegetables, of course, are fair game.

  105. The fact that some support the two state solution isn’t because they do not realise it is apartheid South Africa. It is because they see apartheid South Africa as better than what is being practiced by the Zionists.
    The Israel is not like Apartheid South Africa. Israel is like Nazi Germany.
    Apartheid South Africa had no desire to expel, force out or exterminate Blacks and other non-whites the way Israel practices this on Palestinians.
    Apartheid South Africa was about minority whites ruling other races. Nazi Israel and Nazi Germany are the same. Both are about cleansing a area of other peoples.

  106. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    2 May, 2014 - 10:49 pm

    Technicolour (to Goss)

    “Your own, even modified, stance – which judges people as an entity, rather than seeing them as people first and foremost – people just like you, in fact – does not, I’m afraid, advance…etc”
    _________________

    You will know, Technicolour, that the the Soviet Bolshevik régime judged – and dealt with – people on a class basis.

    This is probably why Goss thinks as he does, by entities.

  107. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    2 May, 2014 - 10:51 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “You are an ardent Zionist Habbabkuk but with no ability to justify your position.

    The same goes for your playfellows on this blog.

    Where are they all?”
    ________________

    At a strategy meeting in Tel Aviv, of course. Where else?

    You really are an extraordinarily silly fellow.

  108. technicolour

    3 May, 2014 - 12:06 am

    Since I’m here, Habbakuk, this is apparently a silly attempt at denigration:

    “You will know, Technicolour, that the the Soviet Bolshevik régime judged – and dealt with – people on a class basis.

    This is probably why Goss thinks as he does, by entities.”

    I know the former, having read a bit about it. I don’t see the connection. I don’t see the person on this board known as John Goss performing any role, other than as opposition, to the Soviet ‘purges’.

  109. Sofia Kibo Noh

    3 May, 2014 - 12:56 am

    “I like not the smell of this authority.” Proctor, from Arthur Miller’s The Crucible.

    I feel much the same when it comes to recent denunciations here.

    Mistress Goss was apprehended forthwith, and a most meticulous examination made by one who had for many years known the devil’s marks. She was found to have three teats about her, which honest women have not. Yea, the Devil’s marks, as plain as stone. Presently she was brought before the Justice and kept from sleep two or three nights, all the time did she call out for her familiars, which, the fourth night, manifested as hares, cats, and like shapes. There being ten of us in the room plainly testifieth that such witchcraft and sorcery was done.

    She was then taken to the great river near the town, to see whether she could sink under water; her legs being tied, she was put in, and though she did endeavour to the uttermost (by her hands) to get herself under, yet she could not, but would lie upon her back, and did swim like a piece of cork. Thus was diabolical whichery verily proven and the hag dispatched without further ado.

  110. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    3 May, 2014 - 9:01 am

    Technicolour

    “Since I’m here, Habbakuk, this is apparently a silly attempt at denigration:

    “You will know, Technicolour, that the the Soviet Bolshevik régime judged – and dealt with – people on a class basis.

    This is probably why Goss thinks as he does, by entities.”

    I know the former, having read a bit about it. I don’t see the connection”
    ___________________

    The connection seems reasonably clear to me.

    1/. John Goss has amply demonstrated over time his sympathy for the Soviet system of governance both by direct reference and by implication.

    2/. The post-1917 Bolshevik régime took as an article of faith, and operated through, the elimination of classes (eg the bourgeoisie, the kulaks, etc…).

    3/. You have yourself recognized – and reacted against – Mr Goss’s a contrario lumping together of all Jewish people (cf for instance your post at 16h03 yesterday, where you write “As it is, I see your phrase “Not all Jewish people are bad” still stands. Have you asked yourself yet what kind of person would say “Not all Muslim people are bad”, or “Not all Irish people are bad”?. Said without humour, it is either hysterically crass, or outrageous in its implication that while ‘not all’ of ‘them’ are bad, most are.”.

    4/. A lumping together similar to the lumping together of all individuals belonging to the bourgeois or kulak classes.

  111. More of the same from the BBC this morning with Regev and Erekat. Humphreys set the agenda at the outset by saying to Erekat – Some are saying that the Palestinians do not want a peace deal. I switched off so cannot say what followed.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b042cq7z

    Twitter

    BBC Radio 4 Today @BBCr4today
    Israeli govt ‘committed gravest mistake’ by suspending negotiations says Palestinian Authority negotiator Saeb Erekat #r4today

    BBC Radio 4 Today @BBCr4today
    Palestinian Authority can’t come to us and say they want peace if they form alliance with Hamas, says Israeli govt spokesman Mark Regev

  112. What tragedy next for the benighted people in Afghanistan?

    It is being said that as many as 2,000 people are dead.

    Afghanistan landslide: Rescuers search for missing
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27265516

  113. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 9:26 am

    I have said before that Mr Goss has no shame – I’m afraid his comments on this thread just add further support to my view.

  114. Technicolour, I apologise for an inappropriate use of words, though plead having rushed out the comment as I do with other comments the cause perhaps of other errors and possible misinterpretions.

    I have been tried and found guilty from a photograph taken on Brighton beach in 1638 which unfortunately revealed a third nipple, referred to unkindly as “the pig’s nipple m’lord” hung low beneath my bikini top. I have covered up ever since then and the pig is dead. It is a photograph which, like Tony Blair (second photo in link below), I would not care if I never saw again.

    http://johngossip.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/what-w-stands-for.html

    As to floating when I should have sank I also plead guilty and have long thought the mushy peas were more guilty than me. :)

  115. Too busy to take on the split personality today.

  116. RD, before I go you keep talking about me having no shame, you, who will not answer Sofia’s question:

    “RD/ELSO etc

    Since you brought up your family links to Russia I’ll ask you again. You disappeared last time I asked.

    How do you explain the differing outcomes in terms of numbers of dead and injured, amounts of high explosives detonated and subsequent social order and cost to their own tax-payers when the US helps to spread democracy and bring freedom in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or any of the dozens of other lucky countries that have rerceived the gift of US help compared to the disgraceful and illegal, bloodless “Russian Invasion” of Crimea?”

    You who appear, like Jekyll and Hyde, in one guise during the day, another at night. And you have the audacity and common indecency of accusing me of having no shame. Tut, tut, tut!

  117. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 11:06 am

    RD, before I go you keep talking about me having no shame, you, who will not answer Sofia’s question:

    I have already – see the thread where it was asked, and at least have the decency to check before throwing out your accusations.

    I am still awaiting a response to my even earlier questions to you – I think that makes it the 7th request.

  118. Sofia Kibo Noh

    3 May, 2014 - 11:24 am

    RD.

    I have already”

    I must have missed your reply. I’d love to read it. Could you remind me where it is. Thanks.

  119. Resident Dissident

    3 May, 2014 - 11:25 am

    I repeat

    “I have already – see the thread where it was asked.”

  120. Resident Dissident 3 May, 2014 – 11:06 am

    If it’s the question I think you mean I answered it after the first time of asking. Check back.

  121. technicolour

    3 May, 2014 - 1:23 pm

    John Goss: Very funny. I don’t know what you think you’ve been ‘tried’ for, or what you think you’ve been found ‘guilty’ of. If someone objecting to/questioning a post is, in your mind, the equivalent of a Salem witch trial, then I suppose Habbakuk’s assertion that you have the same murderous mentality as the Soviet leaders is fair enough too.

    But clearly, both are wild exaggerations (the latter rather more so, it must be said). Good to see you have something in common, though.

  122. “Good to see you have something in common, though.”

    Not much Technicolour. For a start I try to answer questions.

    My comment was an attempted humorous extension of that from Sofia Kibo Noh 12:56 am. But, as Resident Dissident has pointed out, Sofia is inimitable.

  123. Stephen Pollard the JC editor must be on holiday.

    Board of Deputies treasurer ‘shocked’ by visit to West Bank
    By Simon Rocker, May 2, 2014

    Board of Deputies treasurer Laurence Brass has said he was horrified at what he witnessed during a visit to a West Bank village, describing it as an “eye-opener”.

    Mr Brass, who was spending Pesach in Israel, took part in a private capacity in a one-day trip organised by Yachad UK and led by a guide from the anti-occupation Israeli army veterans’ group, Breaking the Silence.

    /..
    http://www.thejc.com/node/117732

  124. technicolour

    3 May, 2014 - 8:28 pm

    Ho ho ho. It’s not actually that funny, though, sounding like a ‘them’ ist. Even if you didn’t mean to. Watch out for that abyss, mate.

  125. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 12:04 am

    Mr Goss

    “Not much Technicolour. For a start I try to answer questions.”
    _____________________

    Except when you find them too tough. Which is presumably why you stalked out of the room on the pretext that you wouldn’t debate with someone who “implicitly approved of torture”….and then became an enthusiatic advocate for “Habbabreak” (which meant that you wouldn’t even see my questions).

  126. technicolour

    4 May, 2014 - 11:22 am

    50,000 Holocaust survivors in Israel live in poverty
    Over 1,000 die every month; new statistics paint stark picture of their lives.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.586970

  127. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 12:25 pm

    Technicolour

    “50,000 Holocaust survivors in Israel live in poverty
    Over 1,000 die every month; new statistics paint stark picture of their lives.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.586970
    _______________________

    I tried to read more on your link but there’s a paywall or whatever’s it’s called.

    Firstly, I too have heard that many of the survivors do not receive (at least not in full) the various monies intended for them, whether by donations or compensation paid by Germany – NOT through the fault of the donors or Germany, of course.

    Secondly, on the figures: the bit of the article one can read for free says that there are about 193.000 Holocaust survivors living in Israel. Assume that to qualify as a Holocaust survivor you should have been born no later than in the last year of the war: this means that we are talking about people who are at least 79 years old today. Many will of course be older.

    Now you will be aware that since the 19th century average life expectancy has been increasing from generation to generation. Let us assume that average life expectancy for people born in the 1930s and 1940s period is (on a generous measure)around 80. It is therefore perhaps not surprising that 10.000 or so people aged at least 80 (out of 193.000 should die every year, is it?

    At that rate, in theory, the last of the 193.000 survivors will have died in 19,3 years from now, aged 79 + 19,3 = 98.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    My conclusion is as follows : your headline summary of the Haaretz article conflates two important but separate issues and so gives the impression that poverty is somehow responsible for a death rate which itself seems entirely normal. Was it your intention when posting to merely draw attention to a series of facts, or were you attempting to make an anti-Israel point?

  128. “I tried to read more on your link but there’s a paywall or whatever’s it’s called.”

    Come on Habby, you tight-arse, with all that dosh you keep bragging about. :)

    If you had not been such a contentious person who perpetually asks questions without answering them there would have been no need to develop Habbabreak.

    Your comment above about holocaust survivors is perfectly reasonable and others would be happy to discuss, and perhaps even agree with you, but for the fact that so many other of your comments are specifically designed to antagonise and you rarely answer any questions, which prompts those of us who have given you our valuable time to taunt you with not knowing whether or not you support torture or whether or not you are a Freemason. Or are you ashamed of your answers?

  129. technicolour

    4 May, 2014 - 3:36 pm

    Habbakuk: yep, know that it’s conflating two points, and agree that unfortunately deaths in that age group would not be uncommon – but that was the headline. The piece was sent to me in full. I linked to the url but didn’t realise it was behind a paywall. I’ll post the most salient bits below. I think, by the way, that it is clearly not ‘anti-Israel’ – but quite possibly is a devastating critique of Israeli government priorities – and also very sad. Moves are afoot to try and improve the situation but still:

    “The foundation conducted a survey of the condition of Holocaust survivors in early April, finding that half of them say they feel lonely, one in every five has had to do without food or medicine over the past two years due to financial difficulty, and 60 percent are worried about what their situation will be in the future. Forty-three percent said they feared the Holocaust could be repeated. Also, 55 percent of the survivors reported that they were not satisfied with the way the government has dealt with them. Sixty-one percent said that they felt no improvement or change in the government’s treatment of survivors over the past year.
    The part of the survey conducted among the general public found that roughly half of the general public believes Holocaust survivors live in poverty. Only 10 percent said the situation of most Holocaust survivors was good or reasonable. Eighty-four percent said the state and government did not treat them well. Fifty-six percent said there had been no change in the past year in the survivors’ treatment. In a statistic similar to that of the survivors themselves, 40 percent of the public said they feared the Holocaust could recur.”

  130. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 4:47 pm

    “Your comment above about holocaust survivors is perfectly reasonable and others would be happy to discuss, and perhaps even agree with you, but for the fact that so many other of your comments are specifically designed to antagonise and you rarely answer any questions, which prompts those of us who have given you our valuable time to taunt you with not knowing whether or not you support torture or whether or not you are a Freemason. Or are you ashamed of your answers?”

    That’s the crux, John. Hab waxes and wanes between reasonable comments and outright flaming diatribe with little point other than narcissism and ridicule.

    That’s the schizoid personality making us all think H. is more than one person.

  131. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 4:48 pm

    Of course the reasonableness is just a trap for his enablers.

  132. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    4 May, 2014 - 5:50 pm

    Technicolour

    Thanks for the reply.

    Firstly, if your conflating headline was in fact Haaretz’s, then the last sentence of my conclusion is without object and can be withdrawn.

    Secondly : it is in fact 10.000 deaths a month, and not a year (as I wrote). While that does not invalidate my main point – which was that high mortality at the age of 79 or above is perfectly normal for the generation born in the 1930s and 1940s – this does mean that you should disregard the last two lines of the main body of my comment.

    More generally on the main features of the Haaretz survey you’ve posted as an addition: I don’t dispute those findings but would just point out that the feelings reported (in the first four lines especially, but also others further down in the extract) would probably be similar to the feelings of people of that age in most developed countries (loneliness, financial difficulties, etc..).

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    As far as Goss’s and Ben’s comments are concerned, I don’t propose to reply. As Goss said, time is valuable and my own is too valuable to permit me to reply to slanderers and Californian gadflies who wouldn’t know what a discussion was if it smacked them in their face.

  133. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    4 May, 2014 - 6:12 pm

    “As far as Goss’s and Ben’s comments are concerned”

    One of the only consistencies observed….’natch !

  134. This is a review of a new book about Palestinian Christians. In exile, their struggle to return and their homes and villages excised from the map. A version of ‘It never happened….’

    Palestinian Christian struggle mapped in new book
    Joe Catron

    30 April 2014

    In Mapping Exile and Return: Palestinian Dispossession and a Political Theology for a Shared Future, American Mennonite theologian and aid worker Alain Epp Weaver explores a legacy of Palestinian Christian exile, and struggle for return. The book’s terrain ranges from the ethnically-cleansed villages of the Galilee to the Upper West Side of Manhattan.

    http://electronicintifada.net/content/palestinian-christian-struggle-mapped-new-book/13355

  135. What kind of country throws a teen out of an IDF jeep?

    Without money, a phone or identity papers, Fadel Tamimi’s 14-year-old son was thrown out of an Israeli army jeep, in the dead of night, 15 kilometers away from home, after being interrogated.

    Mohammed Tamimi. His father went to the army base where he had first been taken, but was chased off. ‘What do we care about your… / Photo by Alex Levac

    http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.588490?v=7D5AD540E9C4ECB255CC4BD9BE37BFDD

    The whole article is published on the link. Disgusting, heartless and cruel.

  136. The new Israeli apartheid: Poll reveals widespread Jewish support for policy of discrimination against Arab minority
    47 per cent of respondents would like to see Israel’s Arab citizens stripped of their citizenship rights

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-new-israeli-apartheid-poll-reveals-widespread-jewish-support-for-policy-of-discrimination-against-arab-minority-8223548.html

  137. Israeli Group Commemorates ‘Nakba Day’ with New App Documenting Palestinian Dispossession

    May 06, 2014

    As Israelis commemorated ‘Memorial Day’ on Monday, and began a series of events to lead up to ‘Independence Day’ on May 15th, one Israeli group launched a smartphone app called ‘iNakba’ to allow users to find the locations of Palestinian villages that were destroyed or expropriated during the creation of the state of Israel in 1948.

    /..
    http://www.imemc.org/article/67722

    Well done Zochrot.

  138. They “kinda miss” the Geneva Convention don’t they !
    Ah well, they need not worry. There will be no intervention there.

    The spotlight moves to the Ukraine !
    Now there “may be” intervention there.
    No idea why….if we take the Israeli model.

  139. John Goss, I am one of those who didn’t read your original post stating “not all Jews..” as being anti-semitic. It was perfectly clear what you meant despite the imperfection of the wording.

    But on this blog, as you have now experienced, people will, and one particular person will almost always, rephrase your comments to explicitly state something you did not say nor even mean. This one person has an inability to distinguish actual statements from imaginary ones and to give the benefit of any doubt to you because it denies her the opportunity of making a display of her superior moral character. For some reason, expressing moral outrage makes some people feel superior. I wonder if it is an unconscious effort to compensate for personal deficiencies and low self-esteem.

  140. Washington Physicians for Social Responsibility has been sponsoring delegations to Gaza since 1993. In 2009, we began offering medical service work to the people of Gaza and today we returned to Gaza with our sixth delegation. We are honored to again visit these loving, resilient and courageous people!

    Diary with photographs April 4th – April 14th 2014

    http://www.larryjohnsononline.com/

  141. IAON] article accepted in IJERPH -Gaza reproductive health

    Specific Association of Teratogen and Toxicant Metals in Hair of Newborns with Congenital Birth Defects or Developmentally Premature Birth in a Cohort of Couples with Documented Parental Exposure to Military Attacks: Observational Study at Al Shifa Hospital, Gaza, Palestine

    Paola Manduca 1,*, Awny Naim 2,† and Simona Signoriello 3,†

    Abstract: This study was undertaken in Gaza, Palestine, in a cohort of babies born in 2011. Hair samples of newborns were analyzed for metal load by DRC-ICP-MS. We report specific level of contamination by teratogen/toxicants metals of newborn babies, environmentally unexposed, according to their phenotypes at birth: normal full term babies, birth defects or developmentally premature. The occurrence of birth defects was previously shown to be correlated in this cohort to documented exposure of parents to weapons containing metal contaminants, during attacks in 2009. We detect, in significantly higher amounts than in normal babies, different specific teratogen or toxicant elements, known weapons’ components, characteristic for each of birth defect or premature babies. This is the first attempt to our knowledge to directly link a phenotype at birth with the in utero presence of specific teratogen and/or toxicant metals in a cohort with known episodes of acute exposure of parents to environmental contamination by these same metals, in this case delivered by weaponry. The babies were conceived 20–25 months after the major known parental exposure; the specific link of newborn phenotypes to war-remnant metal contaminants, suggests that mothers’ contamination persists in time, and that the exposure may have a long term effect.


    Paola Manduca, Prof. Genetics
    DISTAV, University of Genoa, Italy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    My note – The Professor refers to Cast Lead of course as the cause of the exposure.

  142. ‘There are currently 95 detainees on hunger strike in Ofer, Megiddo and Naqab prisons. It should be noted that Ofer and Megiddo prisons are provided services by the British-Danish company G4S, which is responsible for the installation cameras and surveillance equipment used to control the Palestinian prisoners.

    According to one hunger striker, who spoke with Addameer lawyer Mahmoud Hassan, the detainees in the Naqab Prison have all been transferred to an isolated section, separate from the other prisoners.

    The cells are covered in sand.

    The prisoners have been ill-treated; suffering from daily cell searches and being permitted to change their undergarments only twice since the beginning of the strike. They are bound and handcuffed in their cells for ten hours a day.

    Three of the hunger strikers in Naqab prison, Fadi Hammad, Fadi Omar and Soufian Bahar, are now in solitary confinement and one detainee, Ahmad Abu Ras, was transferred to an undisclosed location.

    Furthermore, the IPS has been denying the hunger strikers salt for the last two weeks. Prisoners who engage in hunger strikes still take liquids and salt, as they are essential for survival.

    Denial of salt is a continuation of punishments against hunger strikers and, despite the grave danger it imposes on the lives of the detainees, has been institutionalized by the Israeli Supreme Court. In 2004, the Israeli Supreme Court denied a petition by Adalah: The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, and several other Palestinian and Israeli NGOs that demanded the IPS provide salt on a daily basis to hunger-striking prisoners, as its denial breaches the constitutional rights of the prisoner.

    The hunger strikers will face even harsher punishments if the IPS’s most recent proposed bill to legalize force-feeding passes in the Knesset. The memorandum is currently up for public critique. ‘

    Addameer: Administrative Detainees Put in Solitary Confinement, Denied Salt Supplements
    Friday May 09
    http://www.imemc.org/article/67750

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