That Israel has become an apartheid state is so self-evident that it is impossible to put the fact back in the box. Sky News’ Sam Kiley said it a year ago, and that was almost as surprising as Kerry’s rush of honesty. A state which has hundreds of laws defining the rights and obligations of its different groups of citizens by their ethnicity, enforcing zoning and separate education and public service provisio, and even limiting the right of defined ethnic groups to live with their spouses, is a state which can be characterized by no other word than Apartheid. Israel’s claims to be a democracy exactly echo the similar claim of apartheid South Africa.
I am however delighted if the neo-con plan for a “two state” solution is now dead, because that plan was precisely the same plan that South Africa had for its “Bantustan” reserves for black people. The only difference being that Israel has been much more vicious, herded the indigenous population into much smaller and less viable areas than was allowed to the “Bantustans”, subjected them to appalling economic blockade and then continually ripped away more and more of their small amount of land on a daily basis.
The difference between apartheid South Africa’s Bantustans and the “two state solution”, is that the Israel version is, incredibly, even worse, even more evil.
As in South Africa, the ONLY acceptable solution for Israel/Palestine is freedom and majority rule. People of goodwill should never again be sidetracked into pursuing the kind of apartheid solutions being pushed by Tony Blair.
“Yes tell the children about ALL the holocausts not just THE holocaust which is always spelt with a capital H. How about Vilnai’s ‘greater shoah’ on Gaza, Cast Lead too?”
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You do your cause a disservice, Mary. At least to the people who still inhabit the real world.
THE Holocaust —– how many people?
Cast Lead —– how many people?
Ba’al Zevul opines
“Your attempt to minimise the extent of US aid to Israel by using the largest and least meaningful economic measure, GDP, as a standard, does not pass unnoticed.”
__________________
Congratulations on your vigilance, you old devil, but why do you opine that GDP is the “least meaningful” economic measure?
If you’re not sure, you might for instance ask the UN, the EU and the G8, all of whom have asked developed countries to commit to giving 0,8% of their GDP as development aid. Yup, you read right – that “meaningless” GDP.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“GDP includes every transaction taking place in an economy,…”
_________________
Given that US aid to Israel is both civilian and military, what is your point?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Comparison with Israel’s – grossly swollen – military budget is far more meaningful.”
__________________
Given that US aid to Israel is both civilian and military, why is a comparison with only Israeli military expenditure “more meaningful”?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Or with US aid to Palestinians,….”
______________________
Irrelevant to a discussion about which Israeli category of spending US aid should be compared with.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Conclusion: if your post was intended to rubbish Anon’s excellent post then I’m afraid, my dear K*mo*do, that you have (again) failed miserably.
Hab; Are you fresh from the Lodge? We still want to know if you are a freemason.
Maybe you’re just a Rotarian, but we would still like to know.
I suspect you may be in this range of the Hierarchy.
9th: Master Elect of Nine
10th: Illustrious Master Elect of Fifteen
11th: Sublime Knight (Sometimes referred to as “Chevalier Elect”)
12th: Grand Master Architect
13th: Royal Arch of Enoch
14th: Scottish Knight of Perfection
15th: Knight of the Sword and of the East
16th: Prince of Jerusalem
17th: Knight of the East and West
18th: Knight of the Eagle and Pelican and Sovereign Prince Rose Croix of Heredom
19th: Grand Pontiff
20th: Venerable Grand Master
21st: Patriarch Noachite (Sometimes called the “Prussian Chevalier”)
22nd: Prince of Libanus (also known as “Royal Hatchet”)
23rd: Chief of the Tabernacle
24th: Prince of the Tabernacle
25th: Chevalier of the Brazen Serpent
Apartheid South Africa. Many illustrations of the public notices that were displayed.
Apartheid South Africa (1948-1994)
“We speak out to put the world on guard against what is happening in South Africa. The brutal policy of apartheid is applied before the eyes of the nations of the world. The peoples of Africa are compelled to endure the fact that on the African continent the superiority of one race over another remains official policy, and that in the name of this racial superiority murder is committed with impunity. Can the United Nations do nothing to stop this?”
— Che Guevara, speech to the United Nations as Cuba’s representative, December 11, 1964
http://espressostalinist.com/genocide/apartheid-south-africa/
H’s avatar is quite cute. In Israeli website blue for a start and that little square window in the centre is reminiscent of Playschool…. ‘Which window will it be today children?’ ‘It’s through the square window…..’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/classic/playschool/game.shtml
I gather the Great Unwatched is with us again, Ben. The Superb Klingon of the Dustpan and Brush with A Caesar Salad On The Side, perhaps.
Habbakuk, a number of posts from you, and the other friends of Zion, on this thread and not one of the points that Craig mentions on this topic have been addressed by you.
This is because you and your fellow Zionist supporters have no rational argument
The FY2014 Consolidated Appropriations Act (P.L. 113-76) provides the President’s full $3.1 billion request in FMF for Israel. In addition, it provides another $504 million in funding for research, development, and production of Israel’s Iron Dome anti-rocket system ($235 million)and of the joint U.S.-Israel missile defense systems David’s Sling ($149.7 million), the Arrow improvement program (or Arrow II, $44.3 million), and Arrow III ($74.7 million).
For FY2015, the Administration is requesting $3.1 billion in FMF to Israel and $10 million in Migration and Refugee Assistance. The Missile Defense Agency’s FY2015 request for joint U.S.-Israeli programs is $96.8 million. The Administration also is requesting $175.9 million for Iron Dome.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf
“THE Holocaust —– how many people?
Cast Lead —– how many people?”
So you can continue murdering Palestinian civilians until you reach 6 million? Then it becomes — what? — quite a bad thing?
What a squalid inhuman mindset.
“Or we might try $Bn3.15 per annum per capita for the population of Israel: about $387.00. Annually. Discount the Arabs and Beduin against whom Israel’s military is routinely deployed, and you’re looking at $500 a head for the rest. Beats the UK’s cold weather heating allowance, dunnit?”
Full marks for trying hard, K*modo, but you haven’t addressed my point. You said there were “surging tides” of US aid to Israel. I pointed out that today it constitutes a little over 1 per cent of the economy, compared to nearly 15 per cent 30 years ago. Numerous posts since and your position now seems to be, “But it’s a lot anyway!”.
NB: Dividing a fairly insignificant figure of government income amongst the population, Jewish or otherwise, to create a figure as if it were cash given to each citizen, as you have done, is a pretty dishonest way of trying to prove your point.
“[craigmurray.org.uk – just use the current username so that other readers know who you’re replying to.]”
I think other readers know well enough. Smacks of a rather too cosy relationship between K***** and the Mod if you ask me..
http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1643.cfm
THE SOLOMON TEMPLE IS THE HEART AND SOUL OF FREEMASONRY!
Now that we have amply demonstrated that the genuine Christian has no close affinity to Solomon’s Temple, because He destroyed it and annulled the Levitical Priesthood that accompanied it, let us examine how important this temple is to the practice of the Masonic religion.
“Of all the objects which constitute the Masonic science of symbolism, the most important, the most cherished, by the Mason, and by far the most significant, is the Temple of Jerusalem. The spiritualizing of the Temple is the first, the most prominent and the most pervading, of all symbols of Freemasonry … Take from Freemasonry its dependence on the Temple; leave out of its ritual all references to that sacred edifice, and to the legends and traditions connected with it, and the system itself would at once decay and die … ” [“Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry”, by Albert Mackey, MD, 33º and Charles T. McClenachan, 33º, Revised Edition, by Edward L. Hawkins, 30º and William J. Hughan, 32º, Volume II, M-Z, published by The Masonic History Company, Chicago, New York, London, 1873, A.G. Mackey, 1927, by the Masonic History Company.]
Let us repeat the critical understanding that the noted 33º Masonic author, Albert Mackey, has just given us:
“Take from Freemasonry its dependence on the Temple; leave out of its ritual all references to that sacred edifice, and to the legends and traditions connected with it, and the system itself would at once decay and die … ”
Where would they rebuild it? Oh yeah, on the rubble of the Dome of the Rock.
Palestinians-Go suck on a Rock !
Full marks for trying hard, Ba’al Zevul (Canaan for the Canaanites), but you haven’t addressed my point.
But I did. Your point was that US military aid was a small percentage of Israeli GDP. My response is that this is a dishonest way of looking at it. What concerns you, manifestly, is that the US might be induced to remove this tiny and negligible sum, which would then leave you wholly at the mercy of evil Iran, so finely as your budget is balanced. At not 10%, but nearly 20%, my mistake, of Israel’s total military expenditure, which is heavily subsidised in additional ways by the US taxpayer, maybe that isn’t a truthful interpretation of its insignificance, either.
IOW, if it’s such a fleabite, why humiliate yourselves for begging for it every year? Mmm?
I think this is a very sensitive point, and Netanyahu is terrified that US taxpayers will finally wake up to what their government is doing with their money. As, I suspect, you are.
I think other readers know well enough. Smacks of a rather too cosy relationship between K***** and the Mod if you ask me..
We don’t. But do dig yourself in deeper by explaining.
Mike
OK, I know you’re not being serious – just trying to wind me up – but I’ll still grace you with a reply. ‘Cos I’m a tolerant sort of guy (but less tolerant than Craig, it’s true).
It just seems a little silly to contest the exceptional nature of the Holocaust (around 5-6 million killed?) by putting it in the same bracket or category as Cast Lead (1.500 killed?), which is what Mary’s post did.
Anon
Sorry you’re having to bear the brunt of Ba’al K. Zevul’s foolishness today.
I’d happily share that burden with you, but for some inexplicable reason Mr Zevul appears unwilling to enter into the lists with me by responding to the eminently reasonable questions I put to him at 15h12.
*******************
La vita è bella, life is good!
Ben
I’m afraid I find myself in none of those categories, but perhaps some of the Eminences would fit the bill?
“21st: Patriarch Noachite (Sometimes called the “Prussian Chevalier”)” – that has to be Nevermind, nicht wahr?
“25th: Chevalier of the Brazen Serpent” – certainly Mr Douglas Scorgie (I shall be polite and not name the Brazen Serpent..)
“13th: Royal Arch of Enoch” – (an inverted) Guano ?
“19th: Grand Pontiff(icator) – Mr Goss, of course.
“10th: Illustrious Master Elect of Fifteen (Eminenecs) – Ba’al K. Zevul
You missed out the 40th rank, however. That is
“40th: Bluntest Knife” – Macky.
“H’s avatar is quite cute.”
________________
You’re right, but I get enough of blue when I’m gambolling around on the beach all summer, beach volleying, beach tennis, yacking away, swimming and so on.
Had I had the choice, I would have gone for a tasteful blood red frieze surrounding a vignette of Don Lope Aguirre, who is one of my heroes and who moreover was memorably played by my late acquaintance Klaus Kinski.
It’s simply a question of means, Habby. If there was a magic button that Bibi could press to get rid of every Palestinian, I have little doubt that he would press it immediately. Hitler/Himmler/whoever would have done exactly the same to the Jews, and a number of other ethnic groups.
There is an equivalence between these dehumanising viewpoints.
Four more posts from Habbubkuk and not a word about the points Craig made on The Apartheid Israel Poison Is Out
Why not Habbabkuk?
May 1, 2014
Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters and Nick Mason: Why Rolling Stones shouldn’t play in Israel
Band’s founding members come together to argue in favor of the BDS movement — and urge the Stones to reconsider
http://www.salon.com/2014/05/01/pink_floyds_roger_waters_and_nick_mason_why_rolling_stones_shouldnt_play_in_israel/
‘With the recent news that the Rolling Stones will be playing their first-ever concert in Israel, and at what is a critical time in the global struggle for Palestinian freedom and equal rights, we, the two surviving founders of Pink Floyd, have united in support of Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS), a growing, nonviolent global human rights movement initiated by Palestinian civil society in 2005 to end Israel’s occupation, racial discrimination and denial of basic Palestinian rights.
The BDS movement is modeled on the successful nonviolent movements that helped end Jim Crow in the American South and apartheid in South Africa. Indeed, key figures who led the South African freedom struggle, like Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Mandela’s close associate, Ahmed Kathrada, have come out in support of BDS for Palestinian rights. BDS offers us all a way to nonviolently pressure the Israeli government to fully realize that its injustices against the Palestinian people are legally and morally unacceptable and unsustainable.
The movement does not advocate a particular political framework — one state or two — and neither do we. Rather, we call for a resolution that upholds freedom, justice and equal rights for all, irrespective of identity, and does not cause additional suffering for either people.
So, to the bands that intend to play Israel in 2014, we urge you to reconsider. Playing Israel now is the moral equivalent of playing Sun City at the height of South African apartheid; regardless of your intentions, crossing the picket line provides propaganda that the Israeli government will use in its attempts to whitewash the policies of its unjust and racist regime.’
~~~
Well said.
“We, the two surviving founders of Pink Floyd, have united in support of Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS)”
Oh Dear God. Just read it again. Can’t these luvvies stick to whatever they do?
Anon
1 May, 2014 – 7:21 pm
“We, the two surviving founders of Pink Floyd, have united in support of Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS)”
“Oh Dear God. Just read it again. Can’t these luvvies stick to whatever they do?”
At least your consistent in sticking to what you do Anon – talk bollocks.
Do you not have any comments on Craig’s post: The Apartheid Israel Poison Is Out?
Thought not.
Mike
“If there was a magic button that Bibi could press to get rid of every Palestinian, I have little doubt that he would press it immediately. Hitler/Himmler/whoever would have done exactly the same to the Jews, and a number of other ethnic groups.”
_________________
That’s what’s called a “procès d’intention”, isn’t it. Look, you may well be right but we simply don’t know. When we’re making comparisons, as Mary did, I don’t think we should base ourselves on what we think the exterminators might have done/might do if they had had/will have the chance. But we can base ourselves somewhat more solidly on other elements such as numbers. In any case, the expression “Holocaust” has come to denote the Jewish exterminations, whether you like it or not and whatever the reason was, and it is not going to go away however much you might complain about it (like Israel itself for that matter). Given that there are at least half a dozen perfectly usable other expressions to denote Cast Lead and similar events, there are not even linguistic reasons for insisting that Cast Lead was a “Holocaust”.
Mr Scorgie
When was the last time you made a sensible post with some serious content?
Israeli word choice provides fodder
March 02, 2008|Ashraf Khalil | Times Staff Writer
JERUSALEM — The Hebrew word shoah, or holocaust, is not used casually in Israeli society. Occasionally, it is employed to denote a massive disaster.
This weekend, though, Arab politicians and international pro-Palestinian activists, seizing on a comment by an Israeli minister, are calling the bloody Israeli incursion in the Gaza Strip a holocaust.
In what may prove to be a significant miscalculation, Israeli Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai on Friday used the term in warning of more military action in Gaza.
By allowing constant rocket barrages from Gaza on nearby Israeli cities, the Palestinians, Vilnai said, were “bringing upon themselves a greater shoah because we will use all our strength in every way we deem appropriate, whether in airstrikes or on the ground.”
As the three-day death toll in Gaza climbed toward triple digits, senior Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal accused Israel of “implementing a real holocaust against the Palestinian people for the past 60 years. What is happening today in Gaza is a new holocaust.”
The nongovernmental Palestinian Information Center issued a statement calling Vilnai’s words “the first indirect admission by an Israeli official that what Israel is conducting against the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip is a holocaust, albeit a slow-motion one.”
Given the Arab reaction and the rising Palestinian death toll, Vilnai’s use of the word is proving controversial within Israel as well.
As one Israeli commentator put it on a weblog: “This is a disastrous case of the foot-in-mouth disease, all too common among the contemporary breed of Israeli politicians. Terrible timing, too.”
Vilnai’s aides released a statement saying the former career army officer had only meant to imply a disaster. Others defended him as a victim of sloppy out-of-context translation.
Tom Gross, a media affairs columnist for the conservative National Review Online, said there was a major difference between “a shoah” and “THE shoah.”
“It is like confusing a ‘white house’ with ‘The White House,’ ” Gross wrote.
At the very least, Vilnai’s comment has opened a new front in the Middle East rhetorical war, with critics of Israeli actions in the Palestinian territories apparently seeing it as license to use the word at will.
Critics have compared the Israeli government to the Nazis and termed the barrier being built through the West Bank an “apartheid wall.” But they generally avoided invoking the word “holocaust” in describing the plight of the Palestinians.
But Saturday, even Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, a bitter rival of the Islamic movement Hamas, called the Israeli incursion into Hamas-run Gaza “more than a holocaust.”
In Egypt, Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohammed Mahdi Akef issued a statement condemning the Gaza operation and adding, “I will quote the Israeli Defense minister as describing it as a holocaust.”
Mashaal, the senior Hamas leader, used the term multiple times while speaking to reporters from Damascus, Syria, where he lives in exile. He accused Israel of exploiting the memory of the Holocaust to “blackmail the world” and justify its actions in the Palestinian territories.
“Israel wants to exaggerate the Holocaust when it comes to numbers and make from it a tragedy such that no other can have their own tragedy,” he said. “The Palestinian people are the victims, and Israel is the hangman and killer.”
—
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/02/world/fg-holocaust2
[email protected]
Oops!
The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστος holókaustos: hólos, “whole” and kaustós, “burnt”) also known as Shoah (Hebrew: השואה, HaShoah, “the catastrophe”; Yiddish: חורבן, Churben or Hurban, from the Hebrew for “destruction”), ……
It certainly is sensible to ask; “Hab; have you ascended with Enoch yet? Are you a Mason??
I suggest that henceforth, since Hab sees only rhetorical questions evidenced by the deafening silence, that we have respect for his evasiveness with a similar silence.