Freedom Cheaper than Iraq War

by craig on May 26, 2014 5:03 pm in Uncategorized

A particularly mendacious lie by Danny Alexander puts the institutional start-up costs of Scottish Independence at £1.5 billion.  That is a cool half billion pounds cheaper than Scotland’s share of the costs of the Iraq and Afghan wars, even on the Westminster government’s blatant under-estimate of the war costs.

So Scotland can afford criminal invasions killing hundreds of thousands to ‘bring freedom’, but cannot afford the smaller cost of its own freedom!!!

The £1.5 billion estimate is mendacious in two ways.  Firstly, it is a simple recycling of a Canadian lie at the time of the Quebec independence referendum, apportioning with no argument 1% of GDP to startup costs.

Secondly, as nearly all the money will be spent in Scotland it is not a loss at all, but actually an increase to GDP, as any but the most nutty neo-con would be forced to acknowledge.  And it would be the precursor of government money spent annually in Scotland rather than England for ever thereafter.

Thankfully Alexander won’t have a job much longer – and if he thinks a penny of Scottish public spending is going in future to support his huge arse and deceitful mouth, he is very wrong.

 

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764 Comments

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  1. Here he is at his most masterful last night. NOT. To think he has had a big say in the grinding down of the people over the last four years.

    Watch Danny Alexander Confronted By Lib Dem Activist Over European Election Misery http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMJ1Ug2_5hU#t=64

    Why does he always make me think of that old feather cushion that needs ‘plumping up’ a bit?

  2. Given how the cost of the Scottish Parliament building went up from an estimated £10m – £40m to £414 million, £1.5 billion might be being hopefull.

    On the plus side, if you divide it by the same 300 odd years the Union has lasted, and assume the nation-state world order lasts that long…

  3. BrianFujisan

    26 May, 2014 - 6:16 pm

    Well said Craig… And Mary enjoyed you Para Re Salmond vs Dimblebore, as Craig also Points to above –

    ” Last night Alex Salmond told Dimbledore that there has been a bias for UKIP by the BBC in their reporting of the Scottish elections and that a complaint had gone in.”

    Dimblebore went a bit red and laughingly said, ‘Complaints to BBC Glasgow then Mr Salmond’ to which Salmond said ‘No. That’s the trouble. It is being controlled from London’. Dimblebore shuffled his papers and quickly moved on.”

    Some more on the Dirty tricks Mob…From Wings Over Scotland…

    ” Having spent the last few months pleading poverty and pitiful-underdog status, “Better Together” this week appeared to have suddenly remembered that £500,000 cheque it got ages ago from Tory oil tycoon (and friend of genocidal war criminals everywhere) Ian Taylor, and started spending some of it…

    ” 12-page colour inserts in newspapers like the Daily Record and Guardian don’t come cheap, and hundreds of thousands of Scots found themselves looking at a small booklet which didn’t identify its source until the very last page, and could have been taken by the unwary to have been a production by the newspapers themselves.

    (Especially given the little pale blue “sticker” on the front using what looks very much like the Guardian’s own typeface).

    But that was the least of the dishonesty…

    ” Even the Financial Times acknowledges that “an independent Scotland could expect to start with healthier state finances than the rest of the UK”, so why would there need to be more cuts when we’re both richer and spending less anyway?…

    ” “All the information in this document comes from impartial experts, economists and employers. “

    A barefaced lie. Very few sources are actually cited, and almost all of the ones that are are UK government bodies like the Scotland Office, ONS and OBR. Where there are quotes, they’re highly selective and/or wildly out of context.

    But we’ll get to those as we go along…

    Full piece @

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-lies-you-get/

  4. Je

    Re Scottish Parliament costs – remember New Labour were in power at the time. Probably more spent on backhanders than on building materials.

  5. I personally think Alexander is a particularly obnoxious twat.

  6. Resident Dissident

    26 May, 2014 - 6:20 pm

    So what will the institutional start-up costs of Scottish Independence be?

  7. Res Diss

    £821,427,538.99, obviously.

    But the point is, that whatever the precise figure it will be a welcome Keynesian stimulus. The money is not lost. In fact it will have a substantial multiplier effect.

  8. Je

    No true Scot would allow the cost to soar like that.

  9. “£821,427,538.99, obviously.”

    RD really likes his facts, unless he has to go looking for them.

  10. Be careful Craig or he’ll publish that figure as fact and cite you as the source.

  11. As you say, the money will stay in Scotland and create jobs, which in turn will create more jobs.

    I can’t wait. It’s the most exciting thing to happen in my lifetime.

    Danny Alexander, or, as I’m sure he’ll be called sometime after the next UK election “Lord Alexander” is as much to blame as Clegg is. He should resign.

  12. Western “freedom” and “democracy” is for export only. They don’t like to practice such nonsense in the western countries.

    Iraq, like Libya was an Arab example of socialism and prosperity.” Now, Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan have become part of Stone Age – thanks to western greed and so-called “existential threat” to Israel. The next on line for regime change, are Syria, Iran, Pakistan and Somalia.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/05/18/libya-and-western-humanitarian-mess/

  13. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    26 May, 2014 - 7:53 pm

    “Secondly, as nearly all the money will be spent in Scotland it is not a loss at all, but actually an increase to GDP,”

    and

    “As you say, the money will stay in Scotland and create jobs, which in turn will create more jobs.”
    _______________________

    On that basis (increased GDP, more jobs), would you recommend that the UK govt should create lots of new institutions in the non-Scottish UK?

  14. It does not represent an increase in GDP it’s a diversion of funds which will not then be available for other projects such as schools and hospitals.

    How much of the money will remain in Scotland is open to debate, they had to hire foreign contractors to build the Edinburgh Tramway, another mismanged project that went way over budget.

  15. Resident Dissident

    26 May, 2014 - 8:44 pm

    Craig

    Digging holes and filling them up would be a Keynesian stimulus – it doesn’t mean that the cost shouldn’t be identified and compared with alternatives which may have better multipliers and outcomes – my guess is that a lot of the start up costs will end up in the pockets of Edinburgh lawyers and IT suppliers. Or will an independent Scotland be run on some alternative model?

  16. Resident Dissident

    26 May, 2014 - 8:54 pm

    As an aside I think Danny Alexander reached the peak of his abilities when he was in charge of PR for the Cairngorms but I’m afraid quoting a figure probably provided to him by a civil servant hardly constitutes a particularly mendacious lie. Another example of playing the man rather than the ball I’m afraid.

  17. Tag team is here.

  18. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 12:07 am

    My congratulations to Original Troll Mary for not yet having inserted Israel/Palestine into this thread.

    Keep it up!

  19. As I said, tag team is in.

  20. Will [possible] Scottish independence one day be/come the antidote for the Broken Window Fallacy?

  21. doug scorgie

    27 May, 2014 - 8:24 am

  22. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 8:34 am

    Mr Scorgie

    Good mornng to you, nice to see you up and about. Since you have time to post about Danny Alexander you’ll no doubt have time to provide the various answers you own me from yesterday and the day before, won’t you Doug?

  23. doug scorgie

    27 May, 2014 - 8:37 am

  24. doug scorgie

    27 May, 2014 - 8:56 am

    Expect the US to interfere soon in the Yes/No debate.

    Undoubtedly on the side of the No campaign.

    “U.S. remains a wild card in Scottish independence vote”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/us-remains-a-wild-card-in-scottish-independence-vote/2014/04/12/6afb39f3-96d2-487a-ab4f-cde8de596424_story.html

  25. ‘Dysfunction in Nigeria’ thread is closed. For info:

    U.S. Trains African Commandos to Fight Terrorism

    WASHINGTON — United States Special Operations troops are forming elite counterterrorism units in four countries in North and West Africa that American officials say are pivotal in the widening war against Al Qaeda’s affiliates and associates on the continent, even as they acknowledge the difficulties of working with weak allies.

    The secretive program, financed in part with millions of dollars in classified Pentagon spending and carried out by trainers, including members of the Army’s Green Berets and Delta Force, was begun last year to instruct and equip hundreds of handpicked commandos in Libya, Niger, Mauritania and Mali.

    /..

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/27/world/africa/us-trains-african-commandos-to-fight-terrorism.html?ref=world&_r=1

  26. ‘Unpleasant and nasty’. Pot. Kettle.

    UKIP ‘not the answer’ to 21st Century issues says Blair
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27585260

    Almost makes you wish you voted for UKIP.

  27. The treasury and Alexander have been guilty of gross incompetence.You can hear the lack of conviction in his voice.Simply a talking head for this coalition of minority parties.
    It has been a Schadenfreude to see Clegg et al squirming at their total failure.Small revenge for his reneging on tuition fees.Long may that be remembered.
    The lies about Scottish Independence are dropped like silent farts and cause an untold stink.
    When the lies are caught out and debunked,never an apology or a retraction from the MSM.The stink is allowed to linger.
    None of the (old) big 3 parties grasp that there is a growing revolt to the revolving doors and gravy train for the boys.There is deep resentment to the EU and the powers that they’ve got.The EEC had the peoples support.It’S a friggin no brainer,but no-one wants to go back there.
    The more centralised things get ,the more corrupt they get and the less people power there is.And that is the ultimate goal.To empower the people,because as has been shown in the latest elections,they are not competent to vote the way they should.
    Syriza is a breath of fresh air in Athens.We need more of it and less of the knee jerk to the right.

  28. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 9:51 am

    DoNNY Darko

    “Syriza is a breath of fresh air in Athens.”
    ________________

    This seems like one of the usual lazy platitudes (Craig said something similar).

    Here’s a challenge : expand on that, with particular reference to the practical impact Syriza has had on political and economic developments and on the political and economic landscape in Greece over the past year or so.

  29. He knows he’s had it. Clegg that is. As the song said, You can feel it in your fingers, you can feel it in your toes….’

    Before https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXJCp0cedFazcMHV2Q5YL-vWJAn-3l16S9c_PdY1y7_bo_U6nQjA

    After http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/75108000/jpg/_75108785_75108329.jpg

  30. Came across this horror. You would think that the British Board of Deputies was a political party standing for election. Note the Israeli flag in the centre.

    A European Manifesto.
    http://www.bod.org.uk/content/EUManifesto.pdf

    A reference to it was included within:

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/05/why-boycotting-israel-is-so-important-and-necessary/

  31. Ba'al Zevul (Bounderby's Bastard Brother)

    27 May, 2014 - 10:22 am

    a lot of the start up costs will end up in the pockets of Edinburgh lawyers and IT suppliers.

    As long as they don’t outsource the work to G4S and Crapita, it can only be an improvement on UK government…

    Oh, and Price Waterhouse Cooper.

  32. “As the song said, You can feel it in your fingers, you can feel it in your toes….’”

    Beautifully expressed Mary :-)

  33. Banks lent £12.1bn last month in loans for mortgages. Up 50% on last year. When does the housing bubble burst?

  34. Mary have you read the Paul Craig Robert’s report on the Truthseeker? Also discussed on the Rebel of Oz.

    PCR seems to think that the future belongs to Russian, India and the East, which probably includes Australia, but only those Australians willing to ‘play the game’.

  35. Ba'al Zevul (Bounderby's Bastard Brother)

    27 May, 2014 - 11:27 am

    Expect the US to interfere soon in the Yes/No debate.

    Undoubtedly on the side of the No campaign.

    Hmm. If ‘Yes’ can get half the traction with Americans conscious of their Scottish roots that the IRA managed to do in the Boston MA area, I reckon that might be a dangerous prediction.

  36. Simply Speaking: “The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks.”
    -Lord Acton

  37. I am laughing out very loudly here. They are laughing in our faces. Was P Charles checking up on his assets and investments?

    Business Live: Lagarde attacks inequality and calls for more integrity in capitalism
    Highlights of Lagarde’s speech start here

    Inequality has risen “to the top of the agenda”
    Lagarde cites Churchill, JFK, Aristotle and Wilde….
    Photos: Prince Charles and Lady Rothschild consider inclusive inequality

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/may/27/markets-unruffled-by-eu-elections-as-lloyds-announces-tsb-float-business-live

    Alderman Fiona Woolf, The Lord Mayor of London, Lady Lynn Forester De Rothschild, Chief Executive of E.L. Rothschild, Prince Charles, Christine Lagarde, Managing Director, International Monetary Fund.
    http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/5/27/1401186200758/13e4d2f3-91bd-41cd-a691-d713dae057fd-460×307.jpeg

    They pretend they care about our predicament. Lady Rothschild says all the right things. Clinton is there apparently. Not BLiar? $30 trillion of investments are in the control of this crowd.

  38. This is a strong argument for anyone opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The “No” campaign will have to make the case for being “better together” in terms of prosperity more strongly if they are to win.

  39. Lazy platitude Habba ? No,
    Syriza is the canary in the coal mine.No one has been able to do anything yet in Greece because the Troika still pull the strings. Syntagma give the Police orders.
    I’m quite sure their army is still pretty right wing.
    Since the early 80′s Greece has been very left of centre with Pasok, but they capitulated under Papandreou. Before Greece entered the EEC a family could eat out 3 times a week at least.The EEC brought immediate benefits… the roads for a start were amazing.I suddenly did not need to spend 1 whole day visiting the aliens buro and health centre for my work permit.”Life was good”.
    As soon as the figures were fiddled to allow Greece into the Euro, life changed !
    Everybodies eyebrows raised when they were told Greece had met all the conditions.
    Sh**e !
    Syriza is a party independent of the old guard that “might” just change something when they get into power,or they could be the power broker in Constitution Sq.
    A breath of fresh air which Greece desperately needs.
    With power,they’ll default on debt and leave the Euro but not the EU.That’s what needs to happen,and that’s what I hope will happen.The other side of the coin is that Greece will slide toward Golden Dawn, and that would be malakias.

  40. Add to that the figure of 83& of all new car purchases are financed by one or other loan, Mary, on the never never, and you know why they work 60hour weeks to make ends meet.

    :-) babushka
    Simply Speaking: “The biggest feminist issue which has been swept down the plughole for centuries and which will have to be fought over sooner or later is male centred freemasonry in public services and the lack of equal decision making by them.”
    -citizen nevermind-

  41. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    27 May, 2014 - 3:41 pm

    Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine, and Scots Independence, it’s all the same.

    http://m.thenation.com/article/179986-western-media-coverage-ukraine-crisis-distorted-soviet-propaganda

  42. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    27 May, 2014 - 4:11 pm

    Fascism on the march once again. Elections cut the path.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38616.htm

    “India: Billionaires, Hindu Fascists and IT “Savants”

    The election of Narendra Modi, leader of the BJP and long-time member of the Hindu fascist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) para-military organization was based on three essential components:

    (1) Multi-billion rupee funding from corporate India at home and abroad.

    (2) Thousands of upwardly mobile IT technocrats mounting a massive propaganda campaign.

    (3) Hundreds of thousands of RSS activists spreading the “Hindutva” racist doctrine among millions of villagers.

    The Modi regime promises his capitalist backers that he will “open India”– namely end the land reserves of the tribes, convert farmland to industrial parks, deregulate labor and environmental controls.

  43. ” As long as they don’t outsource the work to G4S and Crapita ”

    G4S, Crapita and that other supplier of PFI excellence Serco already have multi-billion pound contracts in Scotland. Despite the right royal cock-up at the Olympics G4S have been awarded a lucrative contract to supply stewards and security personnel for the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow later this year.

    I understand the MoD has cancelled all leave.

  44. doug scorgie

    27 May, 2014 - 4:50 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    27 May, 2014 – 8:34 am

    “…you’ll no doubt have time to provide the various answers you own me from yesterday and the day before, won’t you Doug?”

    Please repeat the questions Habbabkuk; I’m not going to waste my time looking back on your posts to find out which questions I haven’t (apparently) answered.

  45. “£821,427,538.99, obviously. But the point is, that whatever the precise figure it will be a welcome Keynesian stimulus. The money is not lost. In fact it will have a substantial multiplier effect.”

    So you don’t know. You just assume the £1.5bn figure is wrong because you don’t like Danny Alexander and think it might harm the independence cause.
    As to the multiplier, if it were such a guaranteed route to economic success, why has unprecedented UK public spending in the past few years not resulted in unprecedented levels of growth?

  46. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 6:18 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “Please repeat the questions Habbabkuk;..”

    _______________________

    I “couldn’t be arsed”, Doug (do you recognise that expression of yours?)since you would simply find another excuse or pretext not to answer.

    Do try to be a little less dilatory in future will you.

    **********************

    An answer a day keeps misleading comments at bay.

  47. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 6:22 pm

    Tom asks (correctly)

    “As to the multiplier, if it were such a guaranteed route to economic success, why has unprecedented UK public spending in the past few years not resulted in unprecedented levels of growth?”

    and this gives me reason to repeat a comment/question of my own going in the same direction :

    “Secondly, as nearly all the money will be spent in Scotland it is not a loss at all, but actually an increase to GDP,”

    and

    “As you say, the money will stay in Scotland and create jobs, which in turn will create more jobs.”
    _______________________

    On that basis (increased GDP, more jobs), would you recommend that the UK govt should create lots of new institutions in the non-Scottish UK?

  48. Leaving Afghanistan? Not really.

    US Troops To Stay In Afghanistan After 2014
    The US plans to keep nearly 10,000 troops in Afghanistan for two years after the war formally ends later this year, officials say.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1269994/us-troops-to-stay-in-afghanistan-after-2014

    That fact was not obvious in Obama’s speech when he made a flying visit recently. He referred to a ‘small number’ of troops remaining.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27568872

  49. Establishment peer and former NATO secretary general, Lord Robertson is expected to amplify the Scottish independence ‘Project Fear’ manifold together with George Foulkes and John Reid, by forming a PAC to pull the wire with America to strong arm US institutions into resonating a global instability if the people of Scotland vote ‘yes’ to independence.

    They will attempt to break the American silence on Scotland I believe by using cataclysmic terms such as acute geostrategic consequences where the “forces of darkness” will seize the opportunity to create instability in the West from a paralyzed United Kingdom.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sRqyu6bnkg

  50. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 May, 2014 - 7:00 pm

    Mark Golding

    “They will attempt to break the American silence on Scotland I believe by using cataclysmic terms such as acute geostrategic consequences where the “forces of darkness” will seize the opportunity to create instability in the West from a paralyzed United Kingdom.”
    ______________________

    Apocalyptic and paranoid tosh from you, as so often.

  51. Habbakuk

    Mark Golding

    “They will attempt to break the American silence on Scotland I believe by using cataclysmic terms such as acute geostrategic consequences where the “forces of darkness” will seize the opportunity to create instability in the West from a paralyzed United Kingdom.”
    ______________________

    Apocalyptic and paranoid tosh from you, as so often.

    ——————————————————————-

    the usual shite with no links from billy nomates

  52. Well found Mark. I do not think I have the stomach for 1.5 hours of their stuff though. I understood it was being broadcast from the Brookings Institute one of the neocon nests.

    One of the comments.

    ‘Utterly sickening.
    I have never heard so many lies and fear-mongering in one presentation. The wonderful thing about the Referendum campaign is that, as a result, the Scottish people’s interest in these matters has been re-awakened and the majority of Yes supporters could refute every single point made by George Robertson….I also noted that he made no mention, to his basically American audience, of the British Governments Diplomatic approach to Russia’s Putin for support against Scottish Independence…as Burns wrote “Sic a Parcel o’ Rogues in a Nation”’

    ·

  53. I would never equate separatism with mass murder, but for my part I wouldn’t waste taxpayer’s money on either.

    I’m surprised by Mary’s mention of a British approach to Russia. I had never heard of it, but I find it astonishing. How could the British imagine that Russia would be interested? And how could they possibly expect any help from Russia at all? The Kremlin clearly doesn’t take the British government seriously – after all, I don’t; why should they? – and since all the hideous and ignorant things Cameron, Hague and Clegg have said (and possibly done) in respect of the Ukrainian situation I simply don’t understand how they have the brass neck to ask.

  54. “If tears could build a stairway, and memories a lane,
    I’d walk right up to heaven and bring you home again” ~ Allah Yirhamik ya Oumi

  55. All the politicians have failed the Eastern Ukrainians, Richard.

    Only the people of the world can save them…

    https://twitter.com/eshvedova2012/status/471392010755403776

    Notice the hashtag.

  56. Here’s another:

    https://twitter.com/ARTEM_KLYUSHIN/status/471061619163025408

    Isn’t this like Kosovo, but in reverse? I’m beginning to think that Blair might have got it partly right on that one (but you don’t need to bomb civilians to save civilians!).

  57. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO – If Scots want independence like Afghanistan, Iraq or Ukraine – they better stay in union with Britain – otherwise they will Ira all over Scotland.

    Food for thought: Why Rupert Murdoch favor break-up of United Kingdom?

    http://rehmat1.com/2012/03/04/murdoch-favors-break-up-of-united-kingdom/

  58. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 May, 2014 - 1:54 am

    Is Freedom cheaper than gas?

    http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/the-colder-war-and-the-end-of-the-petrodollar

    But before I explain why that is, let’s put this deal in terms we can understand. The specific details have not been announced, but my sources tell me that the contract will bring in over US$10 billion a year of revenue to start with. The 30-year deal states that every year, the Russians will deliver 1.3 trillion cubic feet (TCF) of gas to China. The total capital expenditure to build the pipeline and all other infrastructure for the project will be more than $22 billion—this will be one of the largest projects in the world.

    You can bet the Russians won’t take payment in US dollars for their gas. This is the beginning of the end for the petrodollar.

    The Chinese and Russians are working together against the Americans, and there are many countries that would be happy to join them in dethroning the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency. This historic gas deal between Russia and China is very bad news for the petrodollar.

    Through this one deal, the Russians will provide about 25% of China’s current natural gas demand. In a word, this is huge.

    It’s also not a coincidence that Putin sealed the deal with China before the Australian, US, and Canadian liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminals are completed. If you read our recent Casey Energy Report issue on LNG, you know to be wary of the hype about LNG’s “bright future.” Take note: this deal is a serious negative for the global LNG projects.

  59. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 May, 2014 - 2:12 am

    Rehmat; I cringe as Craig emphasizes Scot Indie as the new Atlantis. That Murdoch is aligned with the idea makes one ponder the reasons why. It’s almost as though Marx’s dialectic would supercede Hegel’s and forever cease swinging once it reaches the apex. I doubt Craig’s optimism could accept this fallacy.

  60. What it comes down to is nobody needs these fucking effete ass-kissing limeys. Certainly not the peoples of Scotland. The pressure is so inordinate because nobody needs these shit-for-brains Washington knuckle-draggers, either. Certainly not the peoples of Yankeedom, the First Nation, the Midlands, the Left Coast, el Norte, or New France. Self-determination for Scotland would give the viable nations of America subversive new ideas.

  61. Yesterday a large chunk of relevant discussion was deleted at the behest of Craig’s buddies in government. The iron hand of UK government has placed discussion of the war in Syria which it started for Israel by sending UK snipers to pick off people at random Off Limits.

    Crawling his way up the valet’s anus, Craig has taken a foppish, anti-Whig, anti-socialist stance in recent months over Ukraine.
    New Labour is now called the War Criminal party. The war crimes that have been committed by the civil wars in Libya and in Syria are off limits for the FCO in the run up to a general election.

    These ongoing crimes are the full responsibility of David Cameron, and I am sure they make very uncomfortable reading for the powers that be. Aangirfan recently found himself locked out of his blog for overstepping the line on high-profile paedophiles.

    Oh dear! Don’t let it go down in history that the last bastion of Conservatism in Scotland was former rectum of Dundee University, Craig Murray, who by skilfully editing the unpleasant truth about the Torer Fuhrer David Cameron, survived the blanket censorship of contemporary politics like the jolly old vicar of Bray, Sir!

  62. War criminals leave the scene of their crimes. Things didn’t work out so well for them.

    US tells its citizens to leave Libya amid unrest
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27599301

    They are walking out leaving behind mayhem, chaos, anarchy and murder.

  63. What! No helicopters on the roof for the Yanks in Libya? Shame.

    RIP Hugh Van Es. Hugh Van Es, the photographer who took the iconic “helicopters on the roof” photo of the fall of Saigon, has died at 67:

    [Van Es's] shot of the helicopter escape from a Saigon rooftop on April 29, 1975 became a stunning metaphor for the desperate U.S. withdrawal and its overall policy failure in Vietnam.
    http://neoneocon.com/2009/05/15/rip-hugh-van-es/

  64. On topic!

    Scots Independence Costs ‘Badly Misrepresented’
    Government officials are accused of being “crude” in their calculations – and of overstating a figure by 12 times.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1270290/scots-independence-costs-badly-misrepresented

    ‘The Treasury has “badly misrepresented” a study on the cost of Scottish independence, the academic behind the research has said.

    Patrick Dunleavy, a professor of politics at the London School of Economics, says that when Treasury officials used his research to calculate the start-up costs of independence, they overstated the figure by 12 times.

    The criticism is an embarrassment for Danny Alexander, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, who is due to present detailed figures on the economics of independence at an event described by Whitehall officials as a “major milestone” in the independence debate.’

  65. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were “strategic failures” which cost the UK £29 billion.

    Thus spaketh the Royal United Services Institute…

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10859545/Wars-in-Iraq-and-Afghanistan-were-a-failure-costing-29bn.html

  66. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 8:25 am

    why has unprecedented UK public spending in the past few years not resulted in unprecedented levels of growth?

    I know the answer to that one. Because propping up the banks (which had they been in any other business would have been forced to declare bankruptcy) has actually reduced M(0): the basis of Keynes’ approach is that the ordinary punter should be encouraged to spend more. Since the ordinary punter had been spending like a drunken sailor, on his credit card, for the years leading up to the crash, and is now constrained, Keynes is powerless to influence the result. In any case, “growth” is an intentionally misleading term. If I transfer £1000 to your bank account every Monday, and you faithfully return it every Friday, we have between us grown the economy, under the current definition of growth.

    But nothing of value has been produced. The epitaph of the post-Thatcher economy.

  67. Ba’al 28 May, 2014 – 8:25 am

    It is encouraging to see that somebody understands the meaning of growth. But can you please transfer your £1000 to my account. Thanks. :)

  68. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 8:39 am

    Ben – good one of yours @ 0212. Another good argument for the UK to revisit nuclear power.

  69. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 8:57 am

    But can you please transfer your £1000 to my account.

    Just give me your account details and PIN number, no problem…actually I hope to be supporting the engineering industry with it, as I need to get my latest bike’s clutch modified. Sorry.

  70. Horrific pictures on RT. The Kiev Nazis are slaughtering old women, by the looks of it. Of course not a cheep from the BBC. What a shameful organisation, so in tune with neo-con thinking now.

  71. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 9:36 am

    Mike

    “The Kiev Nazis are slaughtering old women,”
    __________________

    Perhaps the fascist thugs and gangsters fomenting secession in eastern Ukraine should be denounced for deliberately putting women, children and old people in the firing line for propaganda purposes (and against their will).

    ***********************

    Support the Take Mikes to the Firing Line Campaign

  72. Oh, you are a naughty little imp, Habby!

    Good to see you haven’t lost your edge. I was starting to worry about you, for a while.

  73. Terrible slaughter in Donbass Oblast, 100 dead, and Pravy Sector and other extreme fascists in control of military. No peaceful future. How much better it was under Yanukovich. The US has brought nothing but death to Ukraine.

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/05/27/ukraines-poroshenko-promises-war-100-killed-in-kievs-new-campaign/

    Here’s one for Craig, the chocolate manufacturer who is pummeling the Donbass region, is also exploiting slave labour in West Africa for his chocolate supplies.

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/05/28/poroshenko-ukraines-candy-king-sticky-fingers/

    Despite the trolls on this blog who glory in the death of ordinary people and attempt to misplace the blame, the people in East Ukraine know who is responsible for the slaughter, and will remember what it was like with the former government before the fascist took control. I see people making comments who have shown themselves to be against the German holocaust against Jews but in favour of other holocausts figure-headed by Jews.

  74. Another war in Europe, 100 people killed and more injured in bombing ,strafing runs by helicopter gunships and it didn’t even make front page news.Doesn’t even make it to the memory hole.It just didn’t happen.
    Not a peep from Hague.Guess he thinks Willie Wonka is doing the right thing and that all civilians that don’t like chocolate are terrorists & Donbasstards.

  75. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 10:17 am

    It’s not white hats vs black hats, John. Both sets of hats are a dirty grey. It’s unklikely Poroshenko would be shooting if he hadn’t made reasonably sure that Moscow wouldn’t get deeply involved first. In fact I’d be interested in your source for the 100 dead. The pro-Russians appear to have looted and burned a hockey stadium (why?) and there’s a pro-Russian miner’s demo of some sort, but I’m not getting Kievists running wild at the moment. Links please.

  76. YouKnowMyName

    28 May, 2014 - 10:21 am

    Yes Jives: The Iraq & Afghan wars that cost UK £29B & over 100,000 collateral dead, according to RUSI, who also commented “Today, AQAP and other radical jihadist groups stretching across the Iraqi-Syrian border, pose new terrorist threats to the UK and its allies that might not have existed, at least in this form, had Saddam remained in power.”

    This rings true as whilst recently landing in the UK at a small regional airport, I was surprised to see 2 hardline “border police” officers, **after** passport control, obviously scanning the tourists for returning jihadis. Good Luck MI5 – you can tidy the blowback up!

    For Guano: I noticed a perturbation of some parts of the internet in February 2011, when (fake) anonymous hackers called Telecomix popped-up to support (cause or effect?) the wide Arab Spring with phone/fax/modem numbers in Hamburg, Stockholm & Paris.

    Syria DEFINITELY wasn’t a UK-SIS/Cameron-led operation. I suppose they/he might have been consulted as the widespread Color revolution teams got under-way sometime in 2010, but “discussion of the war in Syria which it(UK) started” (actually didn’t start) is obviously allowed as no-one has yet deleted this post

  77. Danny Boy is giving a press conference being carried by Sky. He looks rather shifty and uncomfortable. He says that it will benefit every person in Scotland by the sum of £1,400 to stay in the union.

    PS Is he the son of Lord Robertson? Some similarities. Only joking.:-)

  78. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 10:34 am

    Mary

    “Danny Boy is giving a press conference being carried by Sky. He looks rather shifty and uncomfortable.”
    _________________________

    I’d give a lot to see your mug of a morning, Mary, when your eyes alight on the latest turpitude of the West as relayed on online BBC Radio 4. Pure joy, I should imagine! :)

    Have a great day now!

  79. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 10:45 am

    Mr Goss

    “Despite the trolls on this blog who glory in the death of ordinary people and attempt to misplace the blame, the people in East Ukraine know who is responsible for the slaughter,…”
    ________________

    Not glorying in the death of ordinary people, John, just standing up to the Big Lie as propagated by stool pigeons like you by putting the blame where it actually lies, ie, with the fascist bully boys and Mafia-style thugs attempting to create havoc in eastern Ukraine (aka, laughingly, as “separatists”)~. Even rasPutin seems to have abandoned them (and rightly so).
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “I see people making comments who have shown themselves to be against the German holocaust against Jews but in favour of other holocausts figure-headed by Jews.”

    _______________

    You’re not getting back to that old idea of yours that the ousting of the corrupt, authoritarian, thuggish Yanukovich was all a Jewish conspiracy, are you?

  80. NATO-sponsored death squads. Black hats. Nazis.

    Simple.

    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/05/ukraine-sitrep-may-22th-1932-utczulu.html

  81. @Ba’al: I agree with you that Putin is strangely quiet and unsupportive of the Donbass people at the moment. That doesn’t make it right for Kiev to launch or even threaten to launch a “shock and awe” on its own people just because they can, any more than it was justified to bomb Baghdad or Belgrade because their leaders were murderous dictators. I notice that “EuroMaiden” now saying that #SaveDonbassPeople” is just the work of Russian Trolls.

    Regarding the chocolate billionaire.. in true Berlusconi fashion, he is the owner of a TV station, CANAL5. He said he would revoke it… now he seems to have changed his mind. In case you didn’t read my previous link, he has also helped to negotiate the use of land across the Donbass for fracking with Joe Biden’s son’s company.

  82. @ John Goss

    That’s terrible John, what the hell is going on. It’s all politics and it’s corruptions.
    Get round the table quick! And seek diplomacy!
    There should be no borders just evaluations and outcomes!

    Danny Alexander on Nick Cambell just after 8am this morning.

    Big up for Nicky Cambell.

  83. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 11:02 am

    Peacewisher -
    No, Poroshenko isn’t very nice. Neither’s Putin. Pity, that. It would be so nice if everybody was nice. On the realpolitik front, if armed opponents of the state as presently constituted decide to occupy a major airport, and if their foreign supporters have recognised the legality of the present state, then in the interests of sending a clear message as well as retaining a vital transport hub, the state IMO has a right to use force majeure. Don’t want to get shot at? Don’t occupy airports. Even Putin understands that.

    Remember Chechnya?

  84. Danny Alexanders figures are wrong. They are wrong by a factor of 12.
    This has been picked up by Sky and reported in the FT.
    What prominence will this be given by the BBC I wonder, very little I suspect unless Farage has some comment to make about it.

  85. I agree, Ba’al, and they are both politicians so no surprise there. Taking the airport at that time was stupid, but it shouldn’t bring about the bombing of civilian areas. I know there are terrible things going on in other parts of the world, but terrifying your own civilians on a mass scale like this is absolutely not the way a newly-elected leader should behave.

  86. Habbabkuk,

    Fascinating you taking on the mantle of exposing the Big Lie when most of the time you and your fellow NeoCon claqeurs and tag team troll buddies spent most of your time here defending the real Big Lie of our time.

    You Panglossian fool.

  87. @ jake

    Although should Danny Alexander be commended for standing by his party and leader and arguing for that which he is in no doubt would be the best for his comrades.

    Danny Alexander should be commended.

  88. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 12:10 pm

    …terrifying your own civilians on a mass scale like this is absolutely not the way a newly-elected leader should behave.

    No indeed. Wonder where he got the idea?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

    …though ‘elected’ might be putting it a little strongly in Putin’s case. Newly, yes.

  89. Tony Blair’s Sissi in Egypt has just extended voting to an unprecedented third day because the turn out has been too low to lend legitemacy to his election.
    This is a system that the EU has not thought of yet,the election marathon. Just keep voting until you are past some post.
    Who said unpopularity should get in the way of winning democratically ?

  90. “Some were confused by the latest bout of radiosilence emanating from the Kremlin in the aftermath of both the “Chocolate King” winning the Ukraine presidential election, and the most recent escalation of fighting in self-proclaimed as independent Republic of Donetsk, in which more than 50 “separatists” were killed. This ended moments ago when the Russian foreign ministry issued a press release that it has received appeals for humanitarian aid from the “conflict zone” in east Ukraine, and that more importantly, it is is ready to the “provide the population with the required assistance’.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-28/russia-tells-kiev-it-ready-provide-humanitarian-aid-east-ukraine

  91. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 1:43 pm

    Blair update: he’s in/ just been to Berlin. Why? Think EU Presidency, again.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2641199/Tony-Blairs-rank-hypocrisy-He-threw-open-Britain-millions-immigrations-sneers-Ukip.html#readerCommentsCommand-message-field

    That guy hates Blair almost as much as I do…

    PS, this survey wasn’t done in a Ramsgate pub, obviously -

    http://www.natcen.ac.uk/news-media/press-releases/2014/january/more-than-3-in-4-want-reduction-in-immigration/

  92. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 1:45 pm

    This ended moments ago when the Russian foreign ministry issued a press release that it has received appeals for humanitarian aid from the “conflict zone” in east Ukraine, and that more importantly, it is is ready to the “provide the population with the required assistance’.”

    Poroshenko is obviously a man Putin can do business with. Stress business.

  93. Dreoilin @1.26

    I’m sure that aid will include a few Manpads as well, if they are not already being driven into the country late at night, in rusty old Ladas.

  94. I am unconvinced that most of the startup money will stay in Scotland.

    Take for example, the IT infrastructure costs. To bootstrap a new bureaucracy, you will need servers, networks, software, terminals, etc.

    Since you are in a hurry, you will likely end up going for off the shelf solutions from the large systems integrators (so everything works together). This means buying large quantities of boxes and cables (made in China, but from companies traded on the NYSE). You then hire armies of international consultants (because Scotland does not have the spare IT people to put it all together in the time frame you want to boot strap Scotland.)

    Therefore, a lot of the money spent on setting up the IT systems will leave Scotland. (and the IT systems will be thoroughly penetrated by the NSA and its English friends).

  95. I noticed that they were using those see-thru perspex ballot boxes in the oligarch’s election.

    Seems that’s standard practice in Ukraine.

    What has surprised me is that habby and his groupies haven’t been complaining about them as they did when they were used in the Crimea.

    Funny, that.

    Seems they just invent things to get excited about. Total fraudsters.

  96. I never saw it before but Russia Today has shown footage of a school that was bombed by Willy Wonka’s forces (fortunately no casualties). Wonka said “The suspense is terrible – I hope it lasts”.

  97. Gallows humour, John. It’s the only sane response.

    Maybe they’re using UN helicopters to murder old women. Another useless organisation that only jumps when America says so.

  98. AEL,2.25m,

    ” (and the IT systems will be thoroughly penetrated by the NSA and its English friends).”

    Which,of course,in turn,will be thoroughly penetrated by their Chinese and Russian friends…

  99. Obamas to fight terrorism with a multi billion dollar fund.

    Try employment you Schmuck!

    Oh that’s his plan,

  100. Herbie … have a look at these ballot boxes … amazing how ballots supposedly dropped from the top align themselves so neatly at the bottom!

    http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2014/May/25/LiveLeak-dot-com-7c0_1401048702-ElectionfraudUkraine2_1401048716.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd7974f4ddbd1ec4e&ec_rate=230

  101. Ba'al Zevul (I THink, Therefore No-one Listens)

    28 May, 2014 - 4:14 pm

    It’s the same principle as a street busker: put some of your own money in the hat to give the impression that someone thought your performance was worth paying for. :-)

  102. Life in a Surrey prison in 2012. Yet we criticize foreign countries for similar barbarity. 1103 inmates.

    High Down mentally ill inmates ‘make jail like asylum’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-27603969

    ‘It’s now a prison and one in 10 of the prisoners there are so ill that they are in touch with the prison’s mental health services. And there are others who have a lot of mental health problems.”

    “We have to see them as people who are ill or need care, rather than simply as criminals who need punishment.” Nick Hardwick Chief inspector of prisons

    He said all prisons, not just High Down, increasingly held a high proportion of mentally-ill people.

    “I think there needs to be a better way of dealing with those people than simply through the criminal justice system,” he said.

    NB
    High Down prison morale ‘through the floor’ according to report on ‘dreadful’ 2013
    Mar 30, 2014
    A report released by the Independent Monitoring Boards has raised major concerns with staffing and funding levels at HMP High Down
    http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/high-down-prison-morale-through-6889609

  103. Don’t forget how children are being traumatised as they were and are in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, the Balkans, Vietnam, Korea, in fact every one of the 360 post Second World War incursions the US has spearheaded. That’s why when someone mentions Chechniya to villainise Putin it is a disproportionate response, though it is the same for children everywhere.

    “It’s terrifying for children” said Anna a 30 year old teacher from Slvyansk. Nights, when they jump out of bed from an explosion stick in their minds for life. It is very complicated to explain who is shooting, and why. See, for children everything is simple: they shoot the enemy. My 10 year old son asked: “Momma, but why has the enemy got a Ukrainian flag with BTP on it? I try to explain that it is not the enemy, but the Ukrainian Army. But the child does not calm down: “Then why are they shooting at us.” How do you explain to a child what is going on?

    That is the extract ringed in the article here:

    http://www.rightnow.io/breaking-news/donbass-russian-ussr-wars_bn_1398943504133.html

    Note: BTP (Общество с ограниченной ответственностью “БТП”) Society with Limited Responsibility. I suppose all military units could be so described.

  104. Slyvansk = Slavyansk

  105. The drone warrior has been droning on for what seemed like hours at the passing out ceremony at West Point. The best bit for them was hearing that they won’t be sent to wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. He did not outline his future plans for war in other countries but promised $5bn to fight terrrrrrism. No mention of cause and effect.

    US gives $5bn to global terror fight
    President Barack Obama has announced a “terrorism partnership fund” for other countries to tackle extremists, in a landmark foreign policy speech at a military academy in New York.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27606536

    The new headline at 16.30 is ‘Obama: US must show restraint abroad’.

  106. mike 28 May, 2014 – 3:11 pm

    My understanding is that the UN helicopters were decommissioned by the UN and sold to Ukraine. They were supposed to have removed the UN logos before using them. But what would you expect from these cowardly thugs?

  107. ‘Would you trust private companies like G4S, Atos or Serco to look after vulnerable children? Or to influence decisions about taking children into care? Protecting children is one of the most difficult and sensitive roles for a government to perform. But education secretary Michael Gove is consulting on whether to outsource this role to profit making companies. [1]

    If we want to stop this, we don’t have long – the consultation closes this Friday. So far, the issue’s had very little media coverage, and the consultation has barely been publicised. If thousands of us write in today, we can show Michael Gove that we’re watching – and make sure he drops these plans.

    Please can you write to the consultation today:
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/childprotection

    Decisions by child protection professionals affect lives and can break up families, these decisions should be kept miles away from any hint of a profit motive. Adoption services have already been protected from privatisation. And there’s no evidence to suggest that outsourcing services is a good idea anyway. [2]

    The government’s proposal argues that letting private companies provide children’s services will encourage innovation.[3] But we all saw the mess that G4S made of providing security at the Olympics, would we really want them to care for vulnerable children’s lives?

    Experts have already voiced outrage at the plans, now we need to hammer the message home with people power. [4] Previously when 38 Degrees members have responded to Michael Gove’s consultations, our voices have been heard loud and clear. Last year, he dropped his plans to remove climate change from school curriculums after we wrote in our thousands to oppose them. [5]

    Can you write into the consultation and help stop these plans today:
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/childprotection

    Thanks for everything you do

    Robin, Ali, Blanche and the 38 Degrees team’

    NOTES:
    [1] The Guardian – Privatise child protection services, Department for Education proposes: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/16/privatise-child-protection-services-department-for-education-proposes
    [2] Public Finance – Child protection: not for sale: http://opinion.publicfinance.co.uk/2014/05/child-protection-not-for-sale/
    [3] The government proposal: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/304660/Powers_to_Delegate_Con_Doc.pdf
    [4] The Guardian – Child protection services too important to be privatised: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/16/child-protection-privatised
    [5] 38 Degrees blog – Victory: Climate change will stay in the curriculum: http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2013/07/09/victory-climate-change-will-stay-in-the-curriculum

  108. HMG’s Mr Hunt proposes to dole out £100m to Weight Watchers. Ostensibly a good idea Jeremy.

    Little known is the fact that from 1978-1999 WW was owned by Heinz, producers of processed food some containing high levels of sugar and salt. No conflict there.

    Corporate history
    From 1978 until 1999, Weight Watchers was owned by the H. J. Heinz Company, which continues to produce packaged foods bearing the Weight Watchers brand (and with point values clearly identified). Weight Watchers was acquired in a leveraged buyout in 1999 by Artal Luxembourg and went public in 2001. Artal continues to own over 50% of the shares of Weight Watchers as of 2010.

    Corporate governance

    The current members of the board of directors of Weight Watchers are Philippe Amouyal, John Bard, Raymond Debbane, Marsha Evans, Jonas Fajgenbaum, Linda Huett, Sacha Lainovic, Steven M. Altschuler and Christopher Sobecki.

    Now a corporation based in NY.
    Revenue $1.724 billion (2013)

    Operating income $460.757 million (2013)

    Fat people = Fat profits.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2012/09/04/the-mystery-man-behind-weight-watchers-and-the-private-equity-deal-of-the-century/

  109. ” My understanding is that the UN helicopters were decommissioned by the UN and sold to Ukraine. ”

    The helicopters always belonged to Ukraine, the UN doesn’t own any military hardware it relies on member states operating their own equipment on it’s behalf. If reports are true Ukraine should’ve removed the markings but then as UN markings have never proved to be any protection in the past how is “cowardly”?

  110. Well spotted, Pykrete.

    The chocolate oligarch was desperate to get over 50% on the first round to avoid the necessity of a second.

    Knowing that there’d be a very low turnout, I suppose they just decided to help things along by stuffing the ballot.

    ===============================

    We’re moving towards the end of the project now, and it’s interesting to look back at how they began and still continue today, managing every aspect of your life:

    Norman Dodd, who was involved in banking in the early days, and subsequently involved in a Congressional enquiry into endowed foundations explains:

    “This is about The Rockefeller, Carnegie, and Ford Foundations who since the turn of the century have set out to influence and manipulate the education and morals of not only the USA but Countries Globally. Reduced standards of Education and sexual promiscuity of today have their roots in these Foundations. He states that the foundations were very influential in instigating conflicts around the world. “This may be one of the most important videos you will ever see”"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYCBfmIcHM

  111. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 6:34 pm

    Ba’alZevul

    “..then in the interests of sending a clear message as well as retaining a vital transport hub, the state IMO has a right to use force majeure.”
    __________________

    While I agree with the contents of your response to candidate-Eminence “Peacemaker”, I must point out, à la Michael Gove, that your use of “force majeure” is incorrect. “Force” would have been sufficient.

    Keep up the good work.

  112. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 6:39 pm

    Jake

    “What prominence will this be given by the BBC I wonder, very little I suspect”
    ___________________

    You suspect wrongly, you fool. A lot about it on BBC Radio 4 at 16h00 and 17h00 UCT.

  113. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 6:49 pm

    Mary

    “NB
    High Down prison morale ‘through the floor’ according to report on ‘dreadful’ 2013
    Mar 30, 2014
    A report released by the Independent Monitoring Boards has raised major concerns with staffing and funding levels at HMP High Down”
    _________________–

    On a point of information, Mary, is that one of the privately-run prisons you’ve complained about in the past, or is it a state-run prison?

    ********************

    Commit no crime, stay out of prison!

  114. Pykrete’s link to the prefilled Ukraine ballot boxes works on:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7c0_1401048702

    So blatant.

  115. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 6:57 pm

    Herbie

    “Knowing that there’d be a very low turnout, I suppose they just decided to help things along by stuffing the ballot.”
    _____________________

    Well, perhaps the national turnout – although respectable enough – would have been even higher of fascist bullyboys and masked thugs in eastern Ukraine had not done their best to intimidate people against voting.

    Thankfully the good guy won fairly and squarely and all reasonable people would agree that he now has a solid mandate to crack down strongly on said bullyboys and fascist thugs.

  116. ‘On a point of information, Mary, is that one of the privately-run prisons you’ve complained about in the past, or is it a state-run prison?’

    Has the poster @ 6.49pm not heard of Google?

    I notice no concern expressed for those in need of psychiatric care. Some will be past members of HM Forces.

  117. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b044j40n

    Danny Alexander on at 2hr 6min.

    He puts his view a cross in an open an honest way although he focuses on monetary matters like it is paramount. When will people realise that money is just an inconvenience!

    Mary.

    It certainly seems a strange one to outsource child protection services when you would consider community based local services to be superior.
    What concerns me is the closing of sure start centres which are a great benefit for new parents.

  118. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 7:07 pm

    Apparently the right wing parties accounted for a truly majestic 1,5% of turnout in the Ukraine Presidential election.

    It is strange that the self-appointed “anti-fascists” on this blog remain so silent in the face of this good news.

    Moreover, this significant bit of news seems to have passed by entirely unnoticed by the normally oh so-vigilant Marys, Gosses, Peaceakers and assorted other loudmouths.

    Whence this sudden blindness? Could it be that they are secretly disappointed?

    *******************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  119. Not a bad post on the Hitchens blog about Ukraine: “Ukraine – A Warning to the Furious”.

    You can see why so many people in power don’t like him.

  120. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 7:17 pm

    Mary

    “‘On a point of information, Mary, is that one of the privately-run prisons you’ve complained about in the past, or is it a state-run prison?’

    Has the poster @ 6.49pm not heard of Google?

    I notice no concern expressed for those in need of psychiatric care. Some will be past members of HM Forces.”
    _____________________

    Google? What’s that?

    Since it was you who chose to comment about HMP High Down, I obviously thought that you would know whether it was a state-run or private prison. Why did you choose not to tell your readers, Mary?

    Re your comment about concern, I didn’t note much concern in your original comment either. In fact, I got the distinct impression that you don’t give a flying fuck about mentally-ill people except as a further handy little stick with which to beat the govt. Your hypocrisy stinks to high heaven!

    *************************

    PS – are you a comfortably-off member of the middle class, espousing Tony Crosland/Tony Benn type socialism?

  121. Get my name right, Habby. Peacemaker is a highly worthy concept but in the context of false-flags here, there, and everywhere it seems somewhat remote at the moment. I am a Peacewisher of the John Lennon “Imagine” variety. I hope some day you’ll join us…

  122. “Thankfully the good guy won”

    Eh!

    This scumbag?

    “He has never been an entrepreneur or start a business of his own. The story is invented. He made a head start thanks to the criminal connections of his father sentenced for large-scale theft in 1986. Having served the sentence, Poroshenko Sr. launched his own business making his son involved in the activities.

    The business was dirty, it all started with the plundering of state property by armed gangs. The Poroshenko family had plans to expand the activities beyond Ukraine. Tatyana Mikoyan, a well-known Kiev-based lawyer, remembers what the family did in Transnistria,

    «It was horrible back in the 1990s: illegal arms, prostitutes, drugs – all bringing profits to father and son».”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/money-laundering-who-is-ukraines-president-petro-poroshenko/5384213

    No surprise to see you cheering on the thieving oligarch murdering ordinary people, all for an extra bit of turf to plunder.

    Amazing the way people like you are so keen to support this murdering thug and condemn the much milder response of the previous president, who was happy to engage in talks.

    You are a truly disgusting creature.

    But then you have to be to cheer on what your Israeli mates get up to on a daily basis.

    At least you’re consistently on the side of evil.

  123. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 May, 2014 - 7:32 pm

  124. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 May, 2014 - 7:35 pm

    “Peacemaker’ was St Ronaldus’ paean to Orwell. He changed the public perception of the MX system for his re-booting of the arms race using the vaunted ‘doublespeak’ of our Leaders.

  125. Don’t be too hard on Habby, Herbie. He’s only repeating what we can all read in our highly impartial news media.

    Yes, Ben. Another example was the “Peacemaker” missile, which Tracy Chapman so effectively exposed.

  126. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 May, 2014 - 7:43 pm

    Correction; “PeaceKEEPER”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-118_Peacekeeper

    I remember him trotting out Posterboard with pictures (like Bibi’s ‘bomb’ lol) showing smaller but more advanced solid-fuel US rocketry and comparing the ancient behemoths of hydrogen, to illustrate how we needed to catch up with the Soviets.

  127. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 7:48 pm

    Herbie

    Gosh, you DO sound miffed that the good guy won, fairly and squarely!

    But hey, that’s democracy for you – you have to learn to roll with the punches sometimes, Herbie!

    PS – love your eulogy for the previous Prezzie.

  128. Whoops! Yes, sorry Ben.

    “Why are the missiles called Peacekeepeers when they’re trained to kill…”

  129. I wonder will Geithner or whatever goon has replaced him at Treasury be calling for her to resign immediately, as he did with DSK.

    Don’t think so.

    Another hypocrite, proving ever more demonstrably the whole thing was a fit up.

  130. “Why are the missiles called Peacekeepers when they’re trained to kill…”

    It’s all a question of perverted perspective.

    Some people think only of what is done to them, never what they do to others.

    They’re called psychopaths, and they’re currently running the western world.

  131. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 May, 2014 - 8:14 pm

    Peacemaker; Here’s the reference Reagan was using. http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/Colt_Peacemaker

    Being an actor in Hollywood made him an expert on the Old West as we romantically recall.

    Eastwood’s Unforgiven took the shine off that mythology.

  132. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 May, 2014 - 8:17 pm

    Whoops!! Sorry about that Peacewisher. :)

  133. Now the Poles are sending in Death Squads and chemical weapons, having trained their fascist friends in their use, to kill even more civilians.

    “By order of the Kiev directorate of the SBU, the fighters, the cargo and the containers of poison were not inspected and left the airport in cars with tinted windows. The cargo was accompanied by CIA agent Richard Michael. Aboard the plane were also fighters from the Right Sector and the Polish private military company ASBS (Analizy Systemowe Bartlomiej Sienkiewicz) Othago, created several years ago by Poland’s current Minister of the Interior, B. Sienkiewicz.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/polish-death-squads-fighting-in-ukraine-cia-covert-operation/5384210

  134. I know a great deal about psychiatric illness as it happens. Does caring for a mother with dementia over several years qualify? Or having helped friends recover from breakdowns and being a volunteer for a local charity that helps carers, some of whom are at their wit’s end. My late husband was a Samaritan too bless his soul.

    You really have no place here as you appear to be heartless.

    ‘All men are brothers’. Have you heard of that saying?

  135. Kempe, correct over UN. Ukraine has apparently supplied UN helicopters in peacekeeping missions to Congo and elsewhere.

  136. “Commit no crime, stay out of prison!”

    What a load of tosh!

    Your Yankee friends let Herman Wallace out to die of cancer after 42 years in solitary confinement having not committed a crime. They still have Shaker Aamer in Guantanamo. Aamer’s friend, also a former detainee at Guantanamo, Moazzam Begg, has been in police custody since February. Having been subjected to it himself he was investigating the torture about which the British Secret Services don’t want you to know.

    No wonder nobody takes you seriously when you come out with such Yerunda!

  137. Yeroonda might be better, or ерунда!

  138. The gangsters-in-charge are meeting in Denmark tomorrow. Bilderberg time again.

    Mandelslime, Gideon and Balls Up are going.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/is-it-the-bilderberg-conference–or-conspiracy-9449477.html

  139. @Herbie: These Poles should know better. They were massacred by the Banderites in the 1940s, when the latter had teamed up with Hitler. Now they are working with them?! What was that about “strange bedfellows” in some Shakespeare play?

  140. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 9:12 pm

    Mary

    “I know a great deal about psychiatric illness as it happens. Does caring for a mother with dementia over several years qualify? Or having helped friends recover from breakdowns and being a volunteer for a local charity that helps carers, some of whom are at their wit’s end. My late husband was a Samaritan too bless his soul.”
    ______________________

    So what?

    Your comment at 16h19 was not about mental illnesses in general but was specifically about mental illness among prisoners, with particular reference to HMP High Down. You used that to get in another kick at the govt.

    You should be ashamed about that – and you should be even more ashamed to retell personal stories here in an effort to create a diversion from my question to you, which was : is HMP High Down a state or a privately-run prison?

    Why on earth are you so upset at that question?

    Could it be that you normally wax indignant at how privately-run prisons are run and that you are now embarrassed to have to admit that state-run prisons aren’t that wonderful either??

  141. Mary, it hardly seems a year since I was down at Watford on last year’s Bilderberg fringe protest. The weather was gorgeous. The speakers and entertainers were good too. one of the items on the Bilderberger agenda was “The Challenge of Africa” but as far as I could see there was nobody from Africa invited. These people are a lot more dangerous than Paul Flynn thinks they are.

  142. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 9:22 pm

    Herbie

    “Now the Poles are sending in Death Squads and chemical weapons,…”

    ________________________

    What do you mean by “the Poles”, Herbie?

    Your comment appears to attempt to give the impression that it’s the Polish govt that is “sending in Death Squads”.

    I note however that your cut and paste refers to a “Polish private military company ASBS (Analizy Systemowe Bartlomiej Sienkiewicz)”.

    Are you trying to mislead, Herbie, or are you just confused?

    BTW, I note that the origin of your cut and paste is the Californian “Global Research” outfit, which we’ve come across before now on this blog. Ni one should place too much confidence on what they write. In fact, not to put too fine a point on it, they are nutters in the Dr Paul Craig Roberts class.

  143. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 9:27 pm

    Mr Goss

    “These people {ie, the Bilderbergers} are a lot more dangerous than Paul Flynn thinks they are.”
    ____________________

    Right on, John.

    And 9/11 was a vast conspiracy, as was the assassination of JFK, and everything is really run by the Rothschilds and Rockefellers.

    Grow up, for Heaven’s sake.

  144. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 May, 2014 - 9:32 pm

    Peacewisher

    “What was that about “strange bedfellows” in some Shakespeare play?”
    ____________________

    Don’t get over-excited, P. Just focus on the efforts of the legitimate armed forces of the legitimate govt of Ukraine, acting on the orders of the democratically elected President of the country, in their mission to rid the country of fascist thugs and bullyboys seeking to to create a Mafia-ministate in the east of the country under the risible guise of “separatism” and “federalism”.

  145. And H as regards the imprisonment of Moazzam Begg I shall be saying a few words from the floor tomorrow night about this wrongful removal of freedom (29th May) in Birmingham, 7.30 p.m. Rooms 3 – 4 Council House, Victoria Square, Birmingham B1 1BB. Left Unity Launch Meeting. We’ll be bringing socialism back to the masses. I’ll be there. What about you?

  146. “And 9/11 was a vast conspiracy, as was the assassination of JFK, and everything is really run by the Rothschilds and Rockefellers.”

    By George, he’s got it! By George he’s got it! Now once again, where was the vast conspiracy?

    The twin towers. The twin towers.

    Where again?

    The twin towers. The twin towers.

    (Singing) The way they fell it could not be a plane.
    The rain in Spain says mainly on the plain.

    :)

  147. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 May, 2014 - 9:55 pm

  148. Is Habbabkuk psychotic? The aggressive, hostile and abusive posts come in batches. They are not typed on to the blog directly but assembled elsewhere and then arrive like machine gun fire all together. A very strange mind is at work.

    Ref High Down, state run as if that makes a difference to what I was pointing out (the high incidence of mental illness amongst the prisoners), probably holds about 3.5% ex military personnel in its population. Rory Stewart was commissioned by Grayling to look into that on the basis of his having been an army officer! Nothing will change.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/11/concern-number-soldiers-jail-review-rehabilitation

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/rory-stewart

  149. Habba ,I will butt in here as you are totally out of touch with the real world.

    “You’re not getting back to that old idea of yours that the ousting of the corrupt, authoritarian, thuggish Yanukovich was all a Jewish conspiracy, are you?”

    It was Victor Pinch who bankrolled the putsch in Kiev also with a little help from his friends like
    Blair and the Clinton’s by oiling the wheels of their foundations. Remember some Zionists will collaborate with Neo-Nazi`s when it suits their schemes. I know this from personal experience.

  150. Yes John I remember the vast security around that Watford hotel, miles of metal barriers and the police renting a rugby ground to accommodate all the extras.

    I could not access this site earlier.
    http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/conferences.html

  151. Thanks for posting that item about Christine Lagarde, Ben. I’m somehow not too surprised that she ended up in court just like her predecessor. It’ll be interesting to see what the outcome is.

    Here’s a tweet that was re-posted by 1122 people (should cheer some of you up!)

    “It wasn’t too long ago when I used to check BBC news to see if things I saw on Twitter were accurate. At some point, this was reversed.”

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/469856513771970560

  152. Incredible. The Egyptians are shooting at children now.

    Gaza fisherman shot by Egyptian boats
    28/05/2014 23:03

    http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=700691

    GAZA CITY (Ma’an) — A Palestinian fisherman was shot by Egyptian boats in the sea near Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip.

    Spokesman for the Gaza ministry of health Ashraf al-Qidra told Ma’an that a fisherman was shot in the face by Egyptian boats off the coast of Rafah.

    Al-Qidra said that the victim was 16 years old but did not identify him by name.

    He was taken to the European Gaza Hospital with moderate to serious injuries, al-Qidra added.

    Although Israeli soldiers enforcing a 7-year-old blockade on the Gaza Strip frequently fire at Palestinian fishermen who stray too far from the coast, Egyptian forces — who also enforce the siege, at Israel’s request — do so much more rarely.

  153. Is anybody else getting this message:

    An unexpected error occurred
    Please contact your system administrator

    when clicking on
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/is-it-the-bilderberg-conference–or-conspiracy-9449477.html

    which I linked to above and read through earlier
    ?????

  154. yes

  155. The trouble is, good people, that H. uses similar language to those in power, except that he puts it in a more emotional way.

    I’ve just listened to the UN Security Council. I can tell you that several speeches made H.’s view look positively moderate. They’ve all completely swallowed the western-media’s lies.

    I’ve just read about Guernica, and how it was barely reported, and Nazi involvement was barely recognised… except by the likes of Churchill, who could see it for what it was and called it (immortal words) “An experiment in Terror”. He was (of course) ignored.

    I wasn’t around in 1937, but the incorrect perception of events in the Spanish Civil War probably emboldened Hitler and his allies and helped cause the madness that followed.

  156. yes, Mary.

  157. Yep, I’m getting that message Mary. They could be editing it. Or there could be a break in the link. Copy some text from the article and paste it into a search engine. Then it should bring up a workable link.

  158. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    28 May, 2014 - 10:50 pm

    The fisherman was apparently a 16 year-old boy, Mary.

    Morsi’s ouster and tamping down Hamas, affiliated with MB seems to make Israel and Egypt butt-buddies.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-destroys-1370-gaza-smuggling-tunnels/

  159. Peacewisher, what you say is true, news often only becomes news when some historian uncovers the truth. The rest is the news of those in power. The link by Dreoilin at 28 May, 2014 – 10:21 pm about sums it up but my own suspicion is that we are becoming aware and go searching for the news elsewhere if we suspect the same shenanigans as went on on MSM at the run up to the Iraq War. If that event had not happened I might be happily listening to the BBC and believing 95% of the shit.

  160. Good to see Turkey Chasin down the murderers of the Mavi Marmara Activists

    and here a grand ol Dame has passed away – Maya Angelou Rip

    in this touching Video she reads out an Email from -

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/angelou-rachel-corrie.html

  161. Brian, Maya Angelou RIP.

    While the world has been watching Ukraine the US has been deploying troops off Libya.

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/05/28/u-s-deploys-uss-bataan-1000-marines-libyan-coast/

  162. @John: I don’t think the BBC was quite that bad back in 2003, John. The Hutton Report made it a Downing St, and therefore potentially a Washington, mouthpiece. I think it got a little better when Brown was PM, but Cameron, with his entourage that included Murdoch newspapers inc., soon took it back to the times of “Best of Blair”.

    Maybe H. is right. Maybe he agrees with us, but it just having a bit of fun presenting the “establishment” line. None of us know the truth… historians are still arguing about the numbers killed at Guernica and in the Ho.. (oops, mustn’t talk about that one!)

  163. As ever, habby, it’s you who needs help reading.

    The Polish govt is involved:

    “The Poles have been participating actively in the formation of death squads in Ukraine since September 2013, when Foreign Minister R. Sikorski invited 86 members of the Right Sector to train at the police training center in Legionowo, 23 km from Warsaw. The fighters, who came on the pretext of a university exchange program, were mostly men of around 40; they received a month-long training course in organizing mass protests, erecting barricades, seizing government buildings, street fighting tactics, shooting techniques, including from sniper rifles, etc. The Polish weekly Nie published a photo from Legionowo showing Ukrainian fascists dressed in Nazi uniforms alongside their Polish instructors in civilian clothing.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/polish-death-squads-fighting-in-ukraine-cia-covert-operation/5384210

    Be on the lookout for a chemical weapon false flag, as in Syria.

  164. Thanks Ben, I remember that puerile song well. Very catchy.

  165. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    29 May, 2014 - 12:33 am

    “To those doubters, the president’s address offered scant comfort. Reiterating and further tightening a doctrine he laid out in a speech to the United Nations last fall, Mr. Obama said the United States should act unilaterally only in defense of a narrow set of “core interests,” such as the free flow of trade.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/president-obama-in-his-west-point-speech-binds-americas-hands-on-foreign-affairs/2014/05/28/f3db48fe-e66d-11e3-a86b-362fd5443d19_story.html

    Free flow of trade like CNG in Ukraine or BRICS threats to Petrodollars?

  166. Some few Poles almost certainly did operate with the Germans and Banderites in Ukraine in the war after the war to end all wars, as well as Gestapo there were Polish SS/SD and Einsatzgruppen (German Action Group) formations, some voluntarily formed -brutal, but it has been said they exaggerated self-servingly their own effectiveness -these operated in the rear of the Nazi German army after the frontline had moved far forward but before any pseudo-civil administration could hope to function in the captured areas, their job was to deal with partisan activities targetting and security of vulnerable German Eastern front rearguard communications and personnel, partisan atrocities made some such places as dangerous as the real front-line itself, but included damping down internecine slaughter amongst different partisan groups themselves, stopping such violent disorder as suited them, and if possible amongst prisoners and overt partisans to identify and summarily execute Communist Commissars attached to the Red Army, allegedly responsible for field indoctrination of the Russian forces and of civilian populations, the Commissars place in the Red Army hierarchy was high ranking with commensurate powers, the Commissars had a fanaticism and function in Stalin’s armies similar to the SS in Hitler’s, with the Russian forces in between facing the Germans in front and a bullet in the back from the Commissars in their rear should their fighting fervour be insufficient to overcome any residual sense of self-preservation (they can counter that with long-acting drugs these days).

    Populations, borders etc. have been moved around so much wholesale since then that it’s difficult to see this as a new strain of indigenous Polish-Prussian-Ukranian-Galician ugly militarism, as you’re unlikely to be dealing with descendants of the same people, unless its something in their water there; with so many other backers including the UK and US governments, the big thoroughly bad NATO suicide pact, parasitic oligarchs and elites the world over, the PNAC fuckwits, the Grand Delinquent, Prisoner in Cell Block H Blair and so on, that there is plenty of blame to spread thickly around and scrutinise for historical parallels. Inevitably then it could be suggested that the UK must have reverted to inherent fascism, and its not just due to the phony UKIP blip or Foetus Hague squeezing out of his specimen jar to promise a peace to end all peace, if we’d all just follow him wherever –I doubt the UK has regressed in any such a way, the fascists here have never been even briefly OUT of power, but they’re a few rungs down the ladder from their former top position and take orders now rather than giving them.

  167. alan campbell

    29 May, 2014 - 5:58 am

    Anyone read Matthew Syed in the Times today? A great piece:

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4102751.ece

  168. calan ampbell (29 May, 2014 – 5:58 am)

    It seems to be be behind some sort of Paywall, and a Murdochite one at that, I’m not sure if it’s more energetic Muslim demonising or if it’s simply a distractingly controversial story to create lots of noise and heat but very little light, whilst ignoring herds of elephants pouring in through the door, few will want to give any click custom to one of Rupert’s ailing playthings. If they felt it was really important don’t you think they’d want to give it wider circulation than just restricted to the inner-clique of Mr. Murdoch’s Official Fan Club crew. What is your view Mr AC (or can I call you Fred), personally I’m firmly against stoning to death, though think stoners to death ought to be incarcerated till death or cure. It doesn’t seem in any way though like our battle to tell religious fundamentalists in Pakistan what we think ladies should or shouldn’t wear or should or shouldn’t do, we’d achieve a whole lot more in tackling extremism by reining in the Saudis who’ve exported Islamic fundamentalism around the globe with our grinning idiot leaderships’ fawning approval, certainly set up such extremists next door to Pakistan in Afghanistan with the original mujahadeen and their altogether peculiar ideas concerning womens’ rights and I dare say in Pakistan itself the Saudi influence has struck home and penetrated deeply, and willy-nilly droning of them can’t have helped convince them to reform much either. I would say for tolerant islamic heritage peoples, seeing their co-religionists slain in their millions in a series of measures such as murderous blockades and aggressive wars predicated on tissues of lies would also rather tend to harden attitudes, drive them to seek answers from the charlatans and embolden their own extremists buoyed by the trend-bucking reversal in religion’s decay. I would say the secular socialist islamic countries we’ve utterly destroyed, Iraq, Syria, Libya etc. did not have these problems either of dominant religious extremists or repression of women, and the regimes we’ve imposed or tried imposing look altogether worse in this and every respect. When the wests putrid press gets itself into a lather over women’s rights abroad and allows articles like this to appear, I can almost picture the R2P interventionists briefly opening one eye, sniffing the wind, realising its Pakistan and resuming their slumber or playing dead. Palestinian women and for that matter children and men it might have escaped your notice are afforded the least rights, and face daily outrages dangers and death, but I don’t see either Mr Murdoch’s one-ply toilet wipe titles or you daring to highlight that apropos of nothing, or recognise the glaring inconsistency in never doing so.

    “All religions, with their gods, their demi-gods, and their prophets, their messiahs and their saints, were created by the prejudiced fancy of men who had not attained the full development and full possession of their faculties. [...]“

    They’re their nutters mate, over there they stone people, over here ours get elected to Westminster.

    It’s not necessary to even have a view, without our interference this’ll get sorted, with outsiders sticking their neb in, as proven already it does and can only get incomparably worse.

    Condemn it sure, but the sickening hypocrisy and complete lack of any sense of proportion in the behaviour of the collective mass media, which has waged hot bloody war on Islam since decades past is rather hard to stomach. The credibility gap too vast to bridge.

  169. How dare he, he of all people.

    John Kerry tells fugitive Edward Snowden to ‘man up’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27614001

    In one report, he described Edward Snowden as a traitor.

  170. Thanks Brian. She was an amazing woman. It pains me to see that clip of Clinton ‘claiming her’ at his inauguration.

    Maya Angelou, Rachel Corrie and the struggle for justice
    http://www.redressonline.com/2014/05/maya-angelou-rachel-corrie-and-the-struggle-for-justice/

  171. I copied the Independent piece on Bilderberg out last night. I think it is the same as I remember it when first reading it. Still getting the same message on the link????

    Is it the Bilderberg conference – or conspiracy?
    The world’s most powerful people begin their annual meeting on Thursday. So what have they got to hide?
    Tom Harper Author Biography
    Investigations Reporter

    Wednesday 28 May 2014

    Conspiracy theorists may chuckle when they learn a debate entitled “Does Privacy Exist?” is to feature at this year’s Bilderberg conference, the notoriously secretive gathering of the world’s most powerful bankers, politicians and business people.

    There may be a further shaking of heads when they discover one of the participants at the heavily fortified, five-star Marriott Hotel in Copenhagen, Denmark, will be Keith Alexander, the former director of the National Security Agency (NSA), which was embarrassed by the mass-surveillance revelations leaked by Edward Snowden. In fairness to the Bilderberg, the organisers of this year’s conference – which starts on Thursday – have made efforts to be more transparent by publishing a list of all the prime ministers, chief executives and military chiefs in attendance, as well as the topics up for discussion.

    Chancellor George Osborne and his Labour counterpart, Ed Balls, are among the hand-picked group of British politicians who will visit Copenhagen to hob-nob with the global elite behind closed doors.

    Other guests from the political sphere include the former “Third Man” of New Labour, Lord Mandelson, the current International Development Secretary, Justine Greening, and the veteran American foreign policy expert, Henry Kissinger.

    Billionaire captains of industry who landed invitations include the heads of Shell, BP, Airbus, HSBC, Saab, AXA, Google, and Linkedin. They will sit alongside key global powerbrokers such as Christine Lagarde, the head of the International Monetary Fund, and senior officials from the European Central Bank.

    The chairmen from Goldman Sachs and Lazards will perhaps reflect on how their investment banks “advised” Whitehall over the controversial flotation of Royal Mail, which left the UK taxpayer £1bn out of pocket.

    Keeping a discreet eye over the exchanges will be the intelligence chiefs such as Mr Alexander from the United States and Sir John Sawers, the head of MI6, who was pictured on Facebook in his swimming trunks in 2009.

    Items on the agenda include “The future of democracy and the middle-class trap”, “The new architecture of the Middle East” and the major geopolitical crisis of the moment: “Ukraine”. The secretive nature of the Bilderberg Conference has triggered suspicions that the event is used to shape global policy at the expense of democratic oversight. The idea of the euro was said to have been spawned at one meeting in the Nineties.

    Paul Flynn, Labour MP for Newport West, asked a series of parliamentary questions about Bilderberg last year when the conference was held at a five-star hotel near Watford. He told The Independent: “I don’t regard the Bilderberg as a great threat but we would all like to know what is going on with these things. Secrecy inspires concern.”

    Despite its new efforts at transparency, the conference is still acutely sensitive about radical infiltration. On Tuesday night, three journalists – self-styled “InfoWarriors” – were arrested by Danish police after they tried to ambush the organisers outside the Marriott.

    Unfortunately for Hannah Borno, a British freelance journalist staying in the hotel, she was spotted exchanging words with the “InfoWarriors” earlier in the day, which caused her stay to be prematurely cut short. She said: “As my husband and I prepared to go to bed we were confronted by a hotel member of staff and a member of security. They said we had been seen talking to some people earlier who had been asked to leave, and for the safety of the staff they had been advised to ask us to leave.”

    ends

    I assume the photo is of the hotel. http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9449462.ece/alternates/w620/pg-6-bilderberg-v2.jpg

  172. Ba'al Zevul (I think)

    29 May, 2014 - 8:57 am

    one of the items on the Bilderberger agenda was “The Challenge of Africa” but as far as I could see there was nobody from Africa invited. These people are a lot more dangerous than Paul Flynn thinks they are.

    Would have liked to have been a fly on the wall at that one. Any secretive (and by heck they’re secretive) group of politicians and globalists is going to attract conspiracy theorists, but in the case of Bilderberg, there’s a lot it’s not explaining about its activities, and a covert agenda is strongly indicated. Proof is missing, thanks in part to the group’s magical ability to silence even those reporters it invites to its meetings. “The Challenge of Africa” may have been considered in the context of the scramble for Africa’s resources – and if so, no actual Africans would have been required to attend.

    Lacking proof, here’s some history by way of background -

    http://www.freenations.freeuk.com/news-2013-06-11.html

    David Rockefeller expressed his gratitude to the “free press” of the democratic nations for their silence when he addressed a secretive reunion of Bilderberg in Sand, Germany in June 1991. The following is a translation from the French journal “Minute” of June 19th 1991. “We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our re-union and have respected their promises of discretion for almost four decades….

    …It would not have been possible to develop our world project if we bad been subjected to the full fire of publicity all these years. But the world is now more sophisticated and disposed to move towards a world government which will not know war but only peace and prosperity for all mankind….

    …The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and of world bankers is surely preferable to the self-determination which has been practised for centuries past.”

    *blood running cold*…ok, it probably isn’t a continuation of the Nazis’ dream of owning Europe. And these remarks were very much ‘allegedly’; they’re disputed. But Bilderberg attracts some very powerful people, and quite a few of our democratically elected leaders – some of whom (Blair) try to conceal their attendance. It’s not a conspiracy to rule the world, or even half of it. It’s a forum for people who already rule a good bit of the world to work out ways of ruling more of it, without any inconvenient reference to the potentially ruled. This piece gives a better flavour:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/10/bilderberg-2011-charlie-skelton

  173. Army training scheme for long-term unemployed may be extended…

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/29/army-training-scheme-unemployed

    Yet thousands of regular soldiers are being made redundant…

    Hmmmmmmmm.

  174. Phrases I noted were ‘The new architecture of the Middle East’ (are they not evil considering what realities lie behind that description?) and ‘the major geopolitical crisis of the moment: “Ukraine’.

    A ‘crisis’ implies a remote cause, a happening. This one has been worked on over years – no doubt at Builder’s Burg in part. Endless war, endless blood, endless tears in the eyes of Mummies and their children. Shukran Mr Mandelsohn aka The Third Man and nephew of Herbert Morrison. The Talmud lives in him.

    Just to remind ourselves of the tentacles, the Scottish ‘rite’ etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_President_of_the_Council

    Slime was President of the Privy Council. I did not know that Clegg is now. Note Reid. Note Ashton. See that Clegg has special responsibility for constitutional and political reform. Ironic or what?

    The attendees are here although I have not looked at the lists. Feel sick enough already.
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/bilderberg-2014-list-of-participants-mingling-of-military-intel-politicians-finance-oil-media-academia-and-neocon-think-tanks/5384179

  175. Ba'al Zevul (I think)

    29 May, 2014 - 9:29 am

    Europe’s fucked. But there’s one man alone who can save it.

    http://www.tonyblairoffice.org/news/entry/tony-blair-calls-for-a-grand-bargain-to-rescue-europe/

    So designing this new union will be very difficult. Let me make a few quick reflections. A Europe wide election for the Presidency of the Commission or Council is the most direct way to involve the public. An election for a big post held by one person* – this people can understand. The problem with the European Parliament is that though clearly democratically elected, my experience is people don’t feel close to their MEP’s. This could change but only if the European Parliament and National parliaments interact far more closely.

    The 21st Century case for Europe is based not on war or peace but on power or irrelevance.

    *Me, you bloody morons. Who else?

  176. So what if a world is defined by a global elite, what an opportunity.!

  177. “Me, you bloody morons. Who else?”

    Well spotted. He always was an elected dictator and wants another chance at it. He is a megalomaniac funded by big banking. Together with Obama one of the most dangerous animals on the planet.

    Obama said yesterday words to the effect that just because we have the biggest hammer it does not mean that every problem is a nail. The USS Bataan is currently off the shores of Libya offering support to the CIA-sponsored new puppet, Haster, or Hister, or Hitler or something. I’m sure Nostradamus had something to say about this character.

    “We’re going to hit this nail right on the head” said Obama.

  178. Ba'al Zevul (I think)

    29 May, 2014 - 10:01 am

    Rather depends on who’s defining ‘elite’, no?

    Something rather strange is going on, though. Here are all these big fat organisations, dedicated to squeezing the maximum leverage from every tiny individual transaction, pursuing a global collectivist brotherhood agenda. The only difference from theoretical Marxism is that not even lip service is being paid to the fair distribution of wealth. And that’s just a minor detail, isn’t it?

  179. This is the only recent link to Bilderberg on the BBC website from a search.

    The voice of reason aka David Aaronovitch is called on by Andrew Neil to squelch the idea that conspiracy theories exist. Tony Gosling gets in a contribution. Bilderberg at the end. He refers to it as Nato’s political arm and dangerous.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26871156

  180. The bilderberg does Seem a global franchise but they are in the driving seat and can apply the brakes to slow growth and add quality to both the individual and the collective, through education and engineering.

    We are becoming obese in the west and yet children go hungary elseware.
    You mean wealth distribution.

    What magazines do you read?

  181. Ba'al Zevul (I think)

    29 May, 2014 - 11:18 am

    hungary elseware.

    You mean “hungry elsewhere”

    You mean wealth distribution.

    Which is exactly why I said “distribution of wealth”

    they are in the driving seat and can apply the brakes to slow growth…

    Given that every capitalist involved, (and the leaders we, not they, elected) is howling for more growth, that would seem to remain in the realm of remote possibility.

    and add quality to both the individual and the collective, through education and engineering.

    We need a worldwide cabal of corporations to do that? Define quality. More stuff I don’t need? More frittering away finite resources on shiny things for idiots?

  182. Ba'al Zevul (I think)

    29 May, 2014 - 11:45 am

    What magazines do you read?

    Private Eye. Which has far more (verified) material on City/government scams than Newsweek or your probable favourite, the Hedge Fund Journal. Recommended, unquestionably.

  183. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    29 May, 2014 - 12:24 pm

    Mary

    “Is Habbabkuk psychotic? The aggressive, hostile and abusive posts come in batches. They are not typed on to the blog directly but assembled elsewhere and then arrive like machine gun fire all together. A very strange mind is at work.”

    ______________________

    Psychotic? I don’t think so, Mary: my rabbi tells me that for someone who’s been exposed to the insane mutterings from thi blog for over a year now, I’m really remarkably sane.

    As to the “batches”, I believe it’s you who may be losing it, Mary. The explanation is quite simple : unlike you, I don’t spend all day crouched before the PC and so have to reply to the various insanities in batches after I’ve caught up. Simples! :)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “Ref High Down, state run as if that makes a difference to what I was pointing out (the high incidence of mental illness amongst the prisoners), probably holds about 3.5% ex military personnel in its population.”

    ______________________

    No, of course the fact that HMP High Down is state and not privately run doesn’t invalidate what you were pointing out: I fully agree with you that a lot more attention should be paid to pyschiatric problems among prisoners and that former soldiers with problems of any sort deserve more help than they’re apparently getting at present.

    It was just that since you’ve often commented on the iniquity of the govt allowing privately-run prisons to be built, and that you also commented negatively on what sometimes goes on in them, I thought it was worth while getting you to admit that HMP High Down (which you slammed) was not a privately-run prison but a state one; thee point being to demonsrate that the ills of the modern prison system (to which you point, correctly)have perhaps little to do with who runs them.

  184. Israel, Saudi ‘royal’ and Washington Post obsession with Iran and Syria.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/05/28/saudi-prince-meets-israeli-war-criminals/

  185. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    29 May, 2014 - 12:37 pm

    John Goss

    “And H as regards the imprisonment of Moazzam Begg I shall be saying a few words from the floor tomorrow night about this wrongful removal of freedom (29th May) I’ll be there. What about you?”
    ______________________

    Well, if I were in the vicinity I’d have no objection in principle to coming along……but I’m not. But thx anyway.

  186. Ba'al Zevul (I think)

    29 May, 2014 - 12:41 pm

    From his meeting with Merkel in Berlin, to sort out the EU presidency, on to Zurich yesterday to pick up some cash from one of his employers. Used notes only, please. Gotta pay for that charter jet somehow, y’know.

    http://zrh-spotter.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/aravco-ltd-glex-g-ceyl.html

  187. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    29 May, 2014 - 12:42 pm

    David Lawton (22h14, 28 May)

    So you believe that the events in Kiev were/are a Jewish conspiracy.

    OK, noted.

    And thank you for providing me with background and context for the way you “think”; this will be useful for my evaluation of your comments on this and other topics in the future.

    Keep taking the tablets.

  188. Ba'al Zevul (I think)

    29 May, 2014 - 12:59 pm

    Before Berlin, Sweden. Landed in Stockholm at 2135 local time on the 25th May, to deliver this drivel to Swedish TV, among other things…*

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/26/ukip-european-elections-tony-blair

    * I wondered, too. Globalising the Palestinians, that’s what -

    http://www.quartetrep.org/quartet/pages/the-initiative-for-the-palestinian-economy

  189. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildung
    Market forces and corporations have the ability to change and improve the quality of the decisions they make.

    Absolutely agree about economic growth, quality of growth not quantity.

    Less is more attitude.

  190. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    29 May, 2014 - 1:23 pm

    Herbie

    You are pernicious, but your stupidity is your “saving grace” (if I can use the word “grace” in the same sentence as your name).

    “As ever, habby, it’s you who needs help reading.

    The Polish govt is involved:

    “The Poles have been participating actively in the formation of death squads in Ukraine since September 2013, when Foreign Minister R. Sikorski invited 86 members of the Right Sector to train at the police training center in Legionowo, 23 km from Warsaw. The fighters, who came on the pretext of a university exchange program, were mostly men of around 40; they received a month-long training course in organizing mass protests, erecting barricades, seizing government buildings, street fighting tactics, shooting techniques, including from sniper rifles, etc. The Polish weekly Nie published a photo from Legionowo showing Ukrainian fascists dressed in Nazi uniforms alongside their Polish instructors in civilian clothing.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/polish-death-squads-fighting-in-ukraine-cia-covert-operation/5384210
    _________________

    Find better sources for your bilge, Herbie.

    1/. I have already given readers the lowdown in the Californian “Global Research” outfit. Suffice it to say that they are hardly disinterested and that they manage to perform the unlikely feat of making our regular commenter “Ben Gadfly” sound almost sane and balanced.

    2/. Herbie’s source (Global Research) refers to a photo published in a Polish magazine called “Nie” (=”No”).

    “Nie” is a left-wing, anti-Conservative and anti-clerical weekly tabloid which started up in 1990 after the Communists had been finally kicked out once and for all. Its circulation is small.

    Its founder and present editor is one Jerzy Urban, surely well-known to all who were following the Polish scene in the 1980s and before. Urban was and is a slimy chap, well-enough in with the Communist govt to have been a prominent govt spokesman from 1981 to 1989. Among his ‘feats” were to write, in September 1984, a column called “Seanse nienawisc” (= “Hate session”) in which he criticised Father Jerzy Popielwuszko as an “anti-Communist Savonarola”. Father Popielwuszko was murdered a couple of weeks later; in 1986 he masterminded a media story (within Poland)to the effect that the CIA had “betrayed” the Solidarity movement.

    So you see, Herbie, this is why I believe you have been posting bilge again. The only question – not, I admit, a very i,etersting or important one – is whether you know it to be bilge (in which case you’re a mendacious cunt) or whether you believe it (in which case you’re an ignorant cunt).

    My apologies to cunts.

  191. Ba'al Zevul (I think)

    29 May, 2014 - 1:30 pm

    Market forces and corporations have the ability to change and improve the quality of the decisions they make.

    Unfortunately (a) they do not make decisions with the general good in mind, but their own, and why should they? (b) they have no idea of the long term effects of their decisions, and how can they? (c) they may not actually have a clue anyway (see banks, 2008)

    I mean, we all have the ability to change and improve…etc… It’s just that commercial operations have less incentive than anyone else to do so for the public good. Money in the proles’ pockets is money missing from their accounts. A cheap and desperate workforce means more profits than a well-rewarded and motivated one. (though some companies, smaller ones generally, are beginning to realise that this is not an absolute truth)

    Market forces currently demand that the maximum return is wrung from every product, every undertaking to supply a product, and every distant undertaking to trade some advantage derived from agreeing to buy that product, etcetera etcetera. Which means that the producer gets bottom dollar for his product in order to boost the numbers in the offshore account of someone wholly unconnected with his business. Businesses have the power not to trade in derivatives, not to create present wealth for themselves at the expense of the future earnings of poorly-paid produsers. And do they refrain? Do they buggery. Instead they form lobbying blocs like Bilderberg to cajole or coerce governments to still further loosen market controls.

    They could, Jay. The possibility might be said to be there. But they manifestly don’t. And usually claim that they can’t

  192. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    29 May, 2014 - 1:33 pm

    “Shukran Mr Mandelsohn aka The Third Man and nephew of Herbert Morrison. The Talmud lives in him.”
    _________________________

    I like the “h” you gifted to Mandelson, but it would be interesting to hear you* expand a little on your expression “the Talmud lives in him”.

    * You can delegate this task to Mr Scorgie or one of your other Children if you wish

  193. Oh HabbyFlubbyWubby,

    And there was you chastising me for ‘intemperate’ language just yesterday!

    Tut tut.

    Surely youre not cracking under the pressure of maintaining your multiple sockpuppet positions?

    Dont forget youve already been banned from this blog before…

  194. @Habbabkuk

    ‘…my rabbi tells me that for someone who’s been exposed to the insane mutterings from this blog for over a year now, I’m really remarkably sane.’

    Mate, I think you need a new rabbi – your current one is clearly bonkers!

  195. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    29 May, 2014 - 2:21 pm

    KoWN

    “Mate, I think you need a new rabbi – your current one is clearly bonkers!”
    _________________

    Not according to HIS rabbis, he isn’t :)

    ***************

    PS – could you see your way to doing anything about Jives? He clearly needs help…

  196. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    29 May, 2014 - 2:23 pm

    Jives

    Bit early in the day for your tosh, isn’t it?

    I thought you were a creature of the night? :)

    Or the bottle :) :)

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