Crazed Bombers Support Bombs Shock

by craig on July 1, 2014 2:05 pm in Uncategorized

An “independent” all-party commission set up by a lobby group funded by NATO, the FCO and Qatar, consisting of eight of the most right wing establishment figures in the universe, supports keeping Trident. The joint chairmen were “Lord” Browne of the Labour Party, “Sir” Malcolm Rifkind of the Tory Party and “Sir” Menzies Campbell of the Lib Dems. Over three years of deliberation, the Commission did not have, or consider, one single original thought not approved by the Westminster Establishment, and demonstrated that there is no difference at all between the three neo-conservative parties.

Why “Establishment figures endorse status quo” is news beats me. The only news is that the estrangement of ordinary people from the moribund political establishment means nobody cares what these old troughers and sycophants think. In Scotland the referendum has given an impetus to a popular will to take back the power kidnaped by an unrepresentative political class. These old fogeys may need to have the power (with American permission) to kill billions of their human beings, in order to feel potent and important. But if they want to keep these appalling devices, they are going to have to look for somewhere new to keep them. The Pool of London?

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97 Comments

  1. You could have given an emetic warning Craig. I had my lunch late today and nearly threw up.

    http://www.basicint.org/tridentcommission/commissionmembership

    Revolting bunch of warmongers. Guthrie is tied up with the JNF and goes to the Herzliya gathering to speak and to receive instructions. At one time he failed to declare his interests in an arms company in a Lords debate.

    Honorary Patron along with BLiar. http://www.jnf.co.uk/about-the-jnf/executive-board/

    Is that an interest that should be registered? If so he should have declared it.

    http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/lords/lord-guthrie-of-craigiebank/3608

  2. One of the funders is the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. I have phoned them up to ask what on earth they are doing funding such a body. They are going to get back to me tomorrow.

  3. Those billions could be used to build a million Y-cubes and greatly diminish the problem of affordable housing. Now, if any party puts this in their manifesto, I may well vote for them.

  4. “But if they want to keep these appalling devices, they are going to have to look for somewhere new to keep them”

    That will probably not be necessary. Last I heard an independent Scotland would be a member of NATO and that would entail certain obligations.

  5. MJ

    Absolute nonsense. There is no obligation for NATO states to have or to host nuclear weapons. I am increasingly bewildered by the visceral hostility of unionists which causes them quite happily to invent any “fact” they wish.

  6. The status quo is exactly what they want – depriving societies from dealing with their real problems while covert wars are carried on which suit their real interests while populations think that they are not happening because there are no declared wars occurring and no nuclear weapons are not going off.

    It’s called neo-Malthusianism with a vengeance.

  7. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 Jul, 2014 - 3:24 pm

    They’re just afraid someone will call them weak on Defense. Big missiles are manly, and look strong in the face of threats on a smaller scale, like red mercury neutron bombs in suitcases.

  8. Ben,

    “like red mercury neutron bombs in suitcases”. Not that such a thing has ever existed, but don’t let that stop you. Though you are right to imply that a nuclear missile launching submarine is absolutely no defence against non-state actors.

  9. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 Jul, 2014 - 3:36 pm

    A lot of hoaxes perpetrated on the unwary and gullible, Craig. But the guy who designed the neutron bomb has never disavowed red mercury’s existence.

  10. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 Jul, 2014 - 3:42 pm

    I don’t know what AQ is treating clothing with but there is a lot of talk about ‘undetecable’ explosives coming soon.

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/sep/30/thisweekssciencequestions1

    “Others, including Sam Cohen, the inventor of the neutron bomb, disagree, and Barnaby says there is evidence that the Soviets churned out vast quantities of mercury antimony oxide, the intermediate – and equally elusive – compound from which red mercury is supposedly produced by placing it inside a nuclear reactor. “There’s no doubt that they made a large amount of that stuff. I’ve talked to chemists who have analysed it in East Germany,” he says. “But what they did with it is a mystery.”

    Some say the intermediate compound can multiply the yield of explosions and that it was used inside conventional Soviet nuclear weapons or as a rocket fuel additive. Others say the compound was irradi ated in the core of nuclear reactors to produce pure red mercury, capable of exploding with enough heat and pressure to act as a trigger inside a briefcase-sized fusion bomb.”

  11. “There is no obligation for NATO states to have or to host nuclear weapons”

    The terms of Scotland’s membership of NATO will surely be a matter for discussion and negotiation.

    What do you think NATO will consider Scotland’s most important contribution? A contingent from the 3rd Foot and Mouth lifting their kilts in Kabul, or the Faslane base?

  12. “What do you think NATO will consider Scotland’s most important contribution? A contingent from the 3rd Foot and Mouth lifting their kilts in Kabul, or the Faslane base?”

    Do you have to be so negative and disparaging?

    In answer to your question, I would suggest our strategic position in the North Atlantic is our key contribution. As for your suggestion that hosting ‘nukes’ would be part of the entry deal, we only have to look at the current membership to see that is just tripe.

    What is it about Unionists and the application of common sense? Be it NATO, EU or a range of other issues they seem to think Scotland is unique, in being unable to gain the rights and deals others take for granted. Distinct case of jockholm syndrome?

  13. MJ 1 Jul, 2014 – 3:45 pm

    “There is no obligation for NATO states to have or to host nuclear weapons”
    …..
    What do you think NATO will consider Scotland’s most important contribution? A contingent from the 3rd Foot and Mouth lifting their kilts in Kabul, or the Faslane base?

    obligation – compulsory
    contribution – voluntary

  14. No need to speculate, it’s already happened!

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/anger-as-french-nuclear-sub-seen-in-clyde.18556341

    ” contribution – voluntary ”

    Yes, just like my National Insurance contributions.

  15. MJ

    There is a founding Treaty for NATO which has a mutual defence obligation as its main principle. That is what you subscribe to. There are not subsidiary treaties of obligation.

    Scotland’s geographical position and excellent infantry units are important to NATO. There is no reason whatsoever to doubt that Scotland will be able to continue in NATO if Scotland so wishes. Unionists seem unable to debate on the basis of anything other than “it’s impossible! it’s awful! it’s an absolute disaster!”.

  16. “Do you have to be so negative and disparaging?”

    No, I just thought it was quite amusing. Sorry.

  17. “Unionists seem unable to debate on the basis of anything other than “it’s impossible! it’s awful! it’s an absolute disaster!””

    And Separatists seem unable to face up to reality. If Alex Almond is unable to stand up to a nobody like Donald Trump, how do you think he’s going to fare when the heavy mob move in?

  18. No reason some old farts’ maunderings should distress the disarmament movement. The dotards didn’t touch the law

    http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?sum=498&code=unan&p1=3&p2=4&case=95&k=e1&p3=5

    http://www.wagingpeace.org/documents/uk_application.pdf

    with a ten-foot pole because it scares them silly. This is a matter of law, not a policy question.

  19. Almond was a genuine typo. It wasn’t a joke. I meant Salmond. Sorry.

  20. MJ

    Actually I don’t want to be in NATO anyway, disagree with Salmond on that. But the Trump thing is bollocks. Its not far from my parents’ old home, and I support the golf courses. I find the anti-golf course campaign disguised as environmentalism ludicrous, particularly as in this case it is directed by New Labour types with fuck-all genuine environmentalist interest. Of course it upsets those who want to see the Highlands unproductive, picturesque and providing no jobs for local people.

  21. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 Jul, 2014 - 5:17 pm

    “Why “Establishment figures endorse status quo” is news beats me.”
    __________________

    And – with due respect – why you thought that this subject was worthy of a thread beats me.

  22. Habbabreak Habbakuk !
    You don’t have to be here do you ? Take up golf or something.
    Or do you have to be here ? Is that your job ?
    And getting back to the thread,
    It’s pertinent to the Scottish referendum, and Britain in General.Britain has no control over Trident and could never use it without US permission.It’s a waste of money… a banana stuffed down the trousers of Westminster.
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/01/trident-nuclear-missile-renewal-study
    Paul Ingram, executive director of BASIC, said: “The reason why we set up the commission was to stimulate a debate that we perceive has been dominated by electoral calculation. We believe Britain is well placed to lead global nuclear disarmament by renewing Trident.”

    By making new nuclear missiles it will help global nuclear disarmament!! Duh !! That is the sum of the intelligence of this bunch of morons that were doing the study.

  23. Craig,

    You said:-

    ” One of the funders is the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. I have phoned them up to ask what on earth they are doing funding such a body. They are going to get back to me tomorrow.”

    My thinking may be simplistic but this comes to mind:-

    A. Since multi billions are spent on manufacturing armaments and waging wars (e.g. The WMD war in Iraq) – there is an “opportunity cost” for such endeavors. The cost of expenditure on the armaments and the wars is the lost opportunity to build houses, repair infrastructure, improve education, build hospitals etc. BECAUSE OF THE USE OF THE FUNDS ELSWHERE.

    B. The idea of upholding and protecting “security” by manufacturing more and more armaments seems counter intuitive. If I spend more on armaments, then my potential enemy is placed in fear that I am gaining a strategic advantage and may be intent on one day waging war against him. So – logically he too arms himself while both of us suffer the same problem stated at A above.

    C. Taking A and B together it seems that organisations such as NATO and the Pentagon might be better off reasoning with honesty that if perpetual warfare is their desire – then continue with A and B above and manufacture the weapons in abundance and have the wars. If the opposite is a more humane, desirable and sensible objective then do the opposite of that which promotes warfare.

    I recall reading Hans Blix’s book, his account as chief weapons inspector in Iraq and his account of the urgings he got from Western powers to state that there were WMDs in Iraq. He refused to lie and do that. Instead, he simply asked for some six(6) weeks extra time to give his final and affirmative account. He was denied that opportunity and to this day we see a former prosperous country; with a well educated population – women included; a high standard of living – relegated to a decimated and wasted sectarian mess. With saviours like these – who needs enemies?

    PEACE!

  24. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 Jul, 2014 - 5:55 pm

    Donny

    “Habbabreak Habbakuk !
    You don’t have to be here do you ? Take up golf or something.
    Or do you have to be here ? Is that your job ?
    And getting back to the thread,
    It’s pertinent to the Scottish referendum, and Britain in General.”
    ____________________

    Thank you for your interest, Donny. I’m also sure that Craig is grateful for your spirited defence.

    And now, getting back to the thread:

    “It is pertinent to Britain in general” – what a silly, meaningless statement. Just about anything happening in Britain is probably pertinent to Britain “in general”.

    As for its pertinence to the Scottish referendum, I think not. The thread is about the “conclusions” of a small group of now private citizens brought together by a lobby firm and grandiosely styling themselves a “commission”. The importance of this “commission” and of its “conclusions” is, I would suggest, even less than that of the various “Vietnam War Crimes Tribunals” of the past and the more recent “Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Court” (or whatever it called itself).

    Hope that clarifies.

  25. Craig,

    The Guardian headline reads as follows:-

    ” Trident gets thumbs up in report that will dismay anti-nuclear campaigners

    Cross-party commission comes out in favour of keeping nuclear missile deterrent to prevent future security threats for Britain”

    So – A. You fire nuclear weapons at me – B – I do nothing – or I fire mine back at you. And C – you build more of yours and I build more of mine – so that you do not gain any significant strategic advantage over me.

    But – we both are aware of MAD ( mutually assured destruction). We both know that the consequences of a first strike will be that neither side can win – because the retaliatory strike will inevitably come and then …..?

    I keep saying – mad men are running the world. Or – should I be saying – are ruining the world?

  26. Trident relies on the enemy playing cricket. And there is only one plausible enemy, Russia. We’ve seen their dastardly tricks – Polonium attack, what they’ve done in Ukraine.

    The assumption that Trident is invulnerable is nonsense. This society is wide open and so are the crew. To infiltration. Or a biological attack. One sub at sea, first one sailor gets ill then the rest. End of.

    Or hardball. A surprise attack on Faslane and a threat to nuke the rest of the UK if there’s retaliation. Are you really going to be suicidal and retaliate with the UK’s one boat at sea? Or let it sail home to the US when it runs out of stores. And that’s the end of the deterrent.

    They won’t play cricket.

  27. One of the old nuclear subs, HMS Tireless is moored up with 11 others at Devonport. Why? Because they don’t know what to do with the nuclear reactors.

    Look at it. It looks a wreck. The tiles on the hull seem to be out of place.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-27915381

    ‘In 2007 two sailors died in an explosion on board Tireless during an exercise under the Arctic ice cap.

    Failed air-purification equipment was thought to have caused the explosion.

    In 2013 she returned to Plymouth after a leak in her nuclear reactor.

    HMS Tireless joins 11 other former navy nuclear submarines which are waiting to be dismantled at Devonport while the government searches for a site to dispose of their radioactive reactors.’

    The planet and its oceans have already been polluted. Stop the madness NOW.

  28. Habbakuk Cease your hostile and vituperative ad hominem trolling. Every thread is polluted by them.

    Like HMS Tireless you should be tied up in port and decommissioned.

  29. ” I support the golf courses. I find the anti-golf course campaign disguised as environmentalism ludicrous ”

    Sure, just what Scotland needs another golf course shut off from the bulk of the population where a rich elite can waste time hitting a ball with a stick. Can we take it that you also supported the bullying and intimidation the area’s resident were subjected to during the building of the course? Which incidentally they didn’t want.

    The site was a SSSI, I don’t find it encouraging that the SNP were prepared to trash it just for a golf course. They are after all supposed to be the guardians of Scotland’s heritage; they don’t appear to have made a good start.

    As for the Scottish jobs as far as I recall an Irish company was brought in to build the course and most of the subsequent jobs have been filled by cheaper east europeans.

  30. “There is no obligation for NATO states to have or to host nuclear weapons”.

    Nor on paper to allow US nukes into their ports – and Denmark didn’t, for a while – but that doesn’t stop the Scottish SNP Government from saying on p.465 of their marketing document (‘White Paper’) that they “expect” to allow US ships into Scottish ports that the US military won’t confirm or deny are carrying nukes.

    That means they will allow US nukes into Scottish waters. They just haven’t got the guts to say so.

    Talk about having your cake and eating it, saying one thing to the Scottish population and another to US diplomats.

    Why is the comparison always with Denmark and Norway, two allies of the murderous US? How about, say, neutral Switzerland or Sweden or Ireland?

    How about telling both the US and the rUK military to fuck right off. Who do they want to defend Scotland against, again?

  31. Rifkind and Campbell have just been given airtime on BBC News to spout their propaganda.

    Keeping Trident nuclear weapons ‘in UK’s national interest’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28098583

    There are + 1,000 comments.

  32. PS That nice Mr Esler has taken over as presenter. He introduced the Rifkind/Campbell piece.

  33. Kempe

    I know three local people who work there, two of whom were unemployed before and one of whom is related to me. And unlike you, I am not a racist and have no problem if some of the people working there come from Eastern Europe. They are very welcome in Scotland now and are contributing to the local economy.

    N

    I doubt a future Scottish government will allow nuclear armed vessels in, whatever the SNP say now. But one thing we can be sure of – if we don’t vote for independence, our waters will remain full of nukes as they are now. So your point is otiose.

  34. Does Scottish independence and the question of Trident affect the UK’s permanent seat on the UN Security Council?

  35. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 Jul, 2014 - 8:34 pm

    Clark (20h21)

    No.

  36. O/T The Dean of Westminster Abbey colludes with the Fascist state.
    What would Jesus have said to you Mr Hall?

    Shame Of The Church of England: Dean of Westminster Allows Hundreds of Police To Attempt Stamp Out Of Disabled People’s Peaceful Protest
    http://bsnews.info/shame-church-england-dean-westminster-allows-hundreds-police-attempt-stamp-disabled-peoples-peaceful-protest/

  37. Courtenay. 5 47pm

    “My thinking may be simplistic…” .

    Even if it is, that doesn’t take anything from the point you make.

    If you haven’t already come across her you might find Naomi Klien’s perspective interesting.

    More here… http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine.

    DoNNyDarKo. 5 32pm

    “You don’t have to be here do you ?”

    Funny you should ask Dad that question today. The truth is that the thing slumped in the armchair in Dad’s shed is just a dummy (inflatable doll + old blazer + panana hat). This can be proved conclusively by the fact that the G+T level in the nearby glass has remained the same for the last 36 hours.

    Recent posts from “Habbakuk” are automaticaly generated by a few simple lines of code and can be ignored.

    You might find this hard to believe, but reports are coming in from reliable sources that he has (been) stowed away on the cosmic exploration craft “Spirit of Gordon” which is adrift somewhere in the region of the Crab Nebula, with it’s main power source all but disabled.

    As I write he is crawling around the ship’s ventilation system trying to ambush a very panicy crew.

    If his droppings still bother you, you might find some relief with Habbabreak.

    IT REALLY WORKS!

  38. @clark, self-determination for Scotland and de-nuclearization of its land makes England’s P-5 status even more of a joke. Halliday says it best:

    http://www.globalpolicy.org/security-council/security-council-reform/regional-representation/48528-the-united-nations-role-in-peace-and-war.html?itemid=1452

    P-5 status was table stakes for WWII, and Britain got it from the losers the way a Vegas hooker gets it, by hanging around the high-rolling USA. That was two generations ago. Now England is a has-been regime.

    http://www.globalpolicy.org/security-council/security-council-reform.html

    This shouldn’t be invidious at all. Permanent status is an anachronism. It’s unequal justice, effective impunity, in fact. UNSC seats should rotate.

  39. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 Jul, 2014 - 8:54 pm

    “..you might find Naomi Klien’s perspective interesting.”
    _______________-

    Is that Noami Klein’s little sister?

    You should see HER perspective! Whoarrr!

  40. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 Jul, 2014 - 8:57 pm

    Sieverts

    “UNSC seats should rotate.”
    ________________

    They do – except for the 5 permanent ones.

  41. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    1 Jul, 2014 - 9:18 pm

    Craig

    Let’s see you giving a little guidance to your loyal supporters :)

    Several commenters have taken to describing Britain as a “fascist” state.

    There is, indeed, an example of this on this very thread (Mary’s comment at 20h44, above).

    I think you’d agree that that is quite a serious charge and that the accusation should not be made lightly.

    Is it your opinion that Britain is – or is turning rapidly into – a fascist state?

  42. Seems to me that the use of nuclear weapons would almost certainly amount to a genocide and that to design, build, store, test, and train personnel in their use would be conspiracy to commit genocide.

    Genocide(from Article 2 of the Genocide Convention): any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group…

  43. Quite how Craig can infer from Kempe’s post that he is a racist I don’t know, but it only adds to the ongoing devaluation of the term by those who have no argument other than to pull the race card at every and any opportunity.

  44. “And unlike you, I am not a racist and have no problem if some of the people working there come from Eastern Europe”

    Of course you don’t, Craig, because you’re not working class and don’t experience the negative effects.

    That’s the awful English working class you have the misfortune to meet in the boozer and write so disparagingly about, remember?

  45. Sofia (Cosmic Explorer)

    1 Jul, 2014 - 10:57 pm

    “Spirit of Gordon”
    Captains Briefing: 14 07 01 23 00

    Ladies, Gentlemen and Others. I feel it is crucial at this moment to remind you all NOT TO PANIC.

    You all know we are facing the kind of challenges that few have faced outside of the movies and I can understand that some of you may be feeling a little nervous about our predicament.

    However, let me remind you that the ship’s improbability drive, though somewhat damaged, is still 0.0253% functional and, baring any unforseen mishaps, could get us to the outer systems of the Crab Nebula within the next three years. I admit it is unfortunate that this sector is patroled by the Vogon Galactic Guard’s main battle fleet but there is a good chance that their attention will be taken up with the World Cup at least until Sunday evening.

    Another bit of good news is that Herbie has been relieved of all his responsibilities in the galley and will never agian be in a position to serve you “Calamares a la Qztolon”.

    Ba’al too has been removed from his position managing the Alien Integration Suite and both he and Herbie are at present safely contained in the Secure Isolation Unit under the watchful eye of Ben. An enquiry into the unfortunate misunderstanding over the Qztolnon emissary is already under way. Jemand and Anon will submit a preliminary report within the month.

    Finally, and I know it is the elephant in the room, the matter of our unexpected and unwelcome passanger. In the face of A Node’s reasonable and increasingly desperate requests I chose to follow protocol and store the unregistered “Habbapod” until I could deliver it to port authorities at our next landfall. I could have placed the thing under guard, but, since the resussitation switches were well encrypted , I felt that would have been over cautious. The fact that the resussitation process could only have been initiated by a crew member is a matter of some concern.

    The rumour that you were warned to stay well clear of the ventiation grills because the life-form from the “Habbapod” can bore a person to death with only a few words is a gross exageration. It would need three senteces at least.

    So before we return to our posts I want to remind you to stay vigilant, use your ear-plugs at all times and above all …DON’T PANIC.

    If it all goes pear-shaped we still have our nuclear deterrent!

  46. ” unlike you, I am not a racist and have no problem if some of the people working there come from Eastern Europe. ”

    Well it was you who first mentioned “jobs for local people” not I. Is that not racist?

  47. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 Jul, 2014 - 11:10 pm

    Sofia; You are good to go. One point; If you could kindly remember we must be vigilant as to scientific ‘facts’ to keep them sacred, so that any theorems which fly in their faces might be viewed as heretical and will be consigned to the ash-can or the Postal receptacle, so that its never seen by human eyes or heard with an ear to iconoclasm.

    We’re hearing too much about electrical properties that disrespect Quantum Theory, as well as Red Mercury hoaxes.

    With respect and deep gratitude.

  48. The notions of the bigger the bomb, the better the bomb, so much ingrained in the minds of the generals whom fought WWI, and WWII in turn giving rise to the nuclear weapons that have dominate the “foreign policy” of the nuclear weapon owners. The absurdity of the mass murder and dangerous contamination of the bomb site that in turn will unleash the nuclear contamination on the bally planet somehow is never the subject of any debate by the proud owners of the said nuclear weapon.

    The constant official drum beat of the environmental preservation somehow never points at the array of the nuclear and thermonuclear bombs, and the huge sums of money that are spent in keeping these literally useless weapons at the readiness for use, at the command of lying giggling mass murdering imbeciles akin to bLair the psychopath.

    The rush for taxation of poor that is so clinically referred to as “austerity” to ensure the tax cuts for the super rich, also takes account of the super rich and their investment in the killing technologies that have always earned unusual returns to benefit the super rich even more.

    The powwow of the right wing reactionaries whose paramount preoccupation is to protect and advance their corporate sponsors interests (fascism as per Il Duce definitions) comes as no surprise. Regardless of the irrelevance of the Pooh Bah committees’ self belief that their minority constituency are mindless enough to buy into the narrative of the kabuki under way.

    The above is starkly driven home, at the sight of the parliamentary democracy’s apparatus, which is protected by numerous uniformed and none uniformed guards, railings, and ugly barricades. Clearly conveying the sense of siege that the “democratic reps” are finding themselves in. Our Dear Leaders certainly don’t give a flying fuck as to what the majority of us think, clearly they have the “mandate” of a minority of the minority whom actually bothers to engage and vote; despite that patent futility of this box ticking exercise, which has been proven time and again.

  49. BrianFujisan

    1 Jul, 2014 - 11:38 pm

    Excellent Post Craig. Cheers

    I just hate it when i’m doon the coast on a Beautiful Day ( Like Today ) On a Beautiful Clyde Beach

    All my Babes around…Kool Drinks…. And Then What….One of the Stains on Humanity Sneaking up to Faslane… Fkers

    Get Them Things Outa MY River

    O.T BEN …What a Game at World Cup…Wow Wow Wow Magico

  50. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    1 Jul, 2014 - 11:47 pm

    Brian; If only they had been attacking the goal earlier. The goalkeeper’s last chance. Exciting!

  51. you should be tied up in port and decommissioned -still walking the plank Mary having failed to step down.

    In Scotland the referendum has given an impetus to a popular will to take back the power kidnapped by an unrepresentative political class.

    Well I believe this acceptance is pivotal to a decisive ‘yes’ for Scotland independence. However to those on the fence the statement is subjective such that the ambivalent stand in need of instruction and knowledge.

    With 80 days left Craig may I suggest the power of intention ignited by a judicial review of your own critique here spanning/traversing time to confirm this prodigious shanghai of power.

    80 Days and I’ll wager a thousand pounds.

  52. Ben.

    Re unwelcome / uncomfortable ideas and facts.

    I heard of an experiment where some monkeys were put in a cage. In the cage was a stairs. Up the stairs, a cluster of bananas.

    Every time a monkey tried to climb up to get the bananas it was sprayed with cold water.

    Before long any monkey that tried to climb the stairs got attacked by the others.

    Soon the bananas lost their allure and neither sprayings nor beatings were required.

    That is, until on of them was removed and a fresh monkey introduced.

    Seeing the fine bunch of bananas the new monkey mounted the stairs and got beaten until he/she too gave up.

    The process was repeated until none of the original sprayed monkeys remained.

    The final group of unsprayed monkeys continued with their attacks on “ignorant” newcomers.

    Why? Because, well, “EVERYBODY KNEW!”

    I think it was Albert Einstein who said ” It is easier to disintegrate an atom than a prejudice.”

    Here’s something to while away the quiet hours and keep you sharp while you see that Herbie and Ba’al don’t get themselves into any more trouble.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJNasR3HS3s

    BTW. Great to see the US field a team that can play great soccer. WoW! They can go home with their heads high.

    And Brian.

    “Get Them Things Outa MY River”

    And then get the Fecking Illegal Obscenities Outa MY World.

  53. I have long since concluded that these people are basically taking the piss. By refusing to budge on any issue at all they are delivering on our expectations, rather cynically, and thus feigning some integrity. We know Sir Whoever will retain Trident, and these stupid commissions are just a way of pretending to listen. Actually, I regard them as an extra ‘fuck you’ because they really do think we are stupid.

    Sir Crooked Rifkind is a straight down the line establishment tool, always has been, always will be. He has a nice line in sounding reasonable, and speaks impeccably (they do though), but I’m not fooled. He’s a massive bell end, and I bet he loves Tony Blair. They all do. All these neocon fools really do love Tony Blair, because he’s one of them isn’t he?

    So, as the world moves righwards, and we support facists and terrorists the world over, we keep Trident, to use at any time the US lets us. It probably doesn’t even work. Wouldn’t suprise me at all if there were no war-heads, and just a bunch of submarines trolling around the oceans, with non-useable weapons, all at vast expense. And I also bet there is a rather large spook file on Sir Rifkind, too.

  54. Sofia

    I am worried that the same people who hold the codes for Trident also hold the codes for automatic replies from your ‘dad’. What if they got mixed up? A major detonation of Habbacomment over Russia or China might lead to breakdown of civil society or worse. Please reassure us that this weapon will never be used.

  55. “It is easier to disintegrate an atom than a prejudice.”

    Powerful words indeed!

  56. Is Britain a fascist state?

    Yes when even the police, the tools of the state, are guilty of deceit and corruption.

    This is just one instance.

    Met ‘deleted discrimination record’
    The Metropolitan Police told staff to delete findings supporting an officer’s claim of discrimination from a report, an employment tribunal rules.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/

    Others
    ..The Lawrence enquiry and the discovery that the family were being investigated and spied on
    ..The under cover officers in the environmentalists’ camps
    ..Cover up after cover up on deaths in custody
    ..Plebgate
    ..Mark Duggan
    ..Jean Charles
    and on and on going back to the Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six…

    PS Nearly all Surrey Chief Constables go on to become the Met’s Chief Commissioners, or to put it correctly, The Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis.

    Hogan Howe excepted. I see he offered to resign but St Theresa refused. He has a royal connection. His wife works for the royal household. Within here – responsible for horses, cars and carriages.
    http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5176/met-commissioner-sir-bernard-hogan-howe-offers-to-resign

    PS Why was a military helicopter seen leaving Surrey police HQ? Are the police part of the military or vice versa?

  57. Wouldn’t it be luvverly IF this headline read:

    Blair placed under investigation

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28122473

  58. Forgot to include the Boris water cannons! There’s a Gaulieter for you. Have you seen him trampling over people who dare to question him at the Mayor’s meetings?

    Petitioning Theresa May

    Refuse to allow the use of water cannons by any Police force across England and Wales to deal with anticipated street protests.

    http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/theresa-may-refuse-to-allow-the-use-of-water-cannons-by-any-police-force-across-england-and-wales-to-deal-with-anticipated-street-protests

    45,000+ signatures already

  59. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    2 Jul, 2014 - 7:32 am

    Mary

    “Is Britain a fascist state?

    Yes when even the police,..etc, etc, etc…

    _______________________

    Thank you for replying to the question I put to Craig.

    What better proof for the notion that you really do see this blog as your property?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Meanwhile, my question (to Craig) stands.

  60. A further example of the lies of an overweening state, this time by the BBC.

    ‘This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.
    BBC Panorama 2013 Saving Syrias Children’

    What was the content of that video? Lies and distortions created about Syria.

    See:

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1404265027.html

    http://bbcpanoramasavingsyriaschildren.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/bbc-editorial-complaints-final-report-19-may-2014/

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Dr_Rola

    and Craig’s appropriately named ‘The Theatre of War’
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/10/the-theatre-of-war/
    and ‘Fake BBC Video’ http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/10/fake-bbc-video/

  61. Crazed Anti-Austerity Speaker Supports Pro-Austerity Party

    “We’ll change the Labour Party from the inside. It’s always worked before” said extremist union bigwig.

  62. Crazed Anti-NATO Blogger Supports Pro-NATO Party

    “The Scots have never been inclined to war. It’ll be fine” said radicalish liberal.

  63. Mary answered perfectly well (and I suspect that was just a sample) so Habbabkuk, stop acting childish, or do you only accept evidence from sources of your choosing?

    To get back on topic, Salmond seems better as an opposition and all the signs are there that he’ll be a big sell out when the time comes. Remember in ’97 when people were singing “Things can only get better”. He fooled virtually all (although Pilgers warning against was was coming is notable). So go back to your toons, locks and burns and prepare for deception.

  64. Not only a fascist state, a fascist world perhaps.

    Facebook Admits Playing With Our Moods
    By Jonathan Cook
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38961.htm

    aka an experiment in the manipulation of the Lilliputians.

    Social media was widely used in the colour revolutions. Was this sort of interference contributing in the upheavals along the North African countries along the Mediterranean too?

    Such manipylation can also be used to diminish the spirit and to engender ‘feelings of resignation’ in a population, ie ‘don’t bother to protest. You know it’s useless’

  65. Crazed Anti-Mind Control Liberation Fighter Supports Tele

    “I never miss Newsnight” said the prodigious paster of Media Lens links.

  66. Crazed Gambler Bets No Money

    “80 Days and I’ll wager a thousand pounds” said poster not carried away with it all at all.

  67. Ba'al Zevul (Chimp Assassin)

    2 Jul, 2014 - 8:53 am

    (by interphase zext to the Craig Murray blog)
    Sofia’s innuendo re Qztolnoni on board misleading. Qztolnon life evolved in gigantic oceans of sweet crude and 98-octane unleaded lakes. Qztolnonis highly inflammable – spark from unsecured glipper electrode initiated catastrophe – remains proved addictively tasty. Qxxon (inc) shares will shortly be offered by my broker. H sends regards. Best, BZ. Ends.

  68. The guarded and ambivalent maybe, could be, perhaps interwoven into further extirpation of Palestinians;

    JERUSALEM — Reports of an Arab teenager being forced into a car in an East Jerusalem neighborhood early Wednesday and of a body found later in a Jerusalem forest have raised suspicions of an Israeli revenge attack,

    Possible Revenge Killing Adds to Tension in Israel

    However the arrest of Sarko the tosser and enocon tool, gives some credence that at least laws are still relevant in some parts of the world. Fact that Sarko support network (bribed and coerced team) is also exposed and there could be more scalps on the way is refreshing event that murderers will face justice regardless of their distance from the scene of blood, piss, torn limbs and mangled bodies.

    Mr Sarkozy was summoned the day after his lawyer, and two senior judges, were also detained for questioning by the judicial police in Nanterre, just outside Paris. The inquiry, led by two investigating judges, concerns an alleged attempt to exchange inside judicial information from a high-ranking prosecutor in return for a possible plum job in Monaco.

    Sarkozy was formally placed under investigation

  69. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    2 Jul, 2014 - 8:59 am

    Lwtc247

    “Mary answered perfectly well (and I suspect that was just a sample) so Habbabkuk, stop acting childish, or do you only accept evidence from sources of your choosing?”
    ___________________

    Your “comment” overlooks the fact that I’m already aware of Mary’s position; cf my original question, which said

    “Several commenters have taken to describing Britain as a “fascist” state.
    There is, indeed, an example of this on this very thread (Mary’s comment at 20h44, above).”

    This is why my question was not addressed to Mary but to Craig and why a “reply” from Mary, as you call it, is superfluous.

    Hope you understand now.

  70. Poxy building crashed into by aircraft and still standing

    At least four people died when a cargo plane crashed into a building shortly after takeoff Wednesday from the Kenyan capital’s main airport, the busiest in east Africa, aviation authorities said.

    Experts maintain; despite practically full gas tanks, the jet fuel used by the poorer nations is not as potent and fierce as the Western jet fuel that demolish sky scrapers.

  71. Crazed Druggies Do Drugs

    “I’m a cat lover not a terrorist” says West London overlord.

  72. Habbabkuk. So you will only accept evidence from sources of your own desire. That explains a number of things. Appreciate your honesty.

  73. Crazed Troll Haters Support Trolls Shock

    “I feed him and feed him but he will not go away” said internet warrior “it’s inexplicable”.

  74. Water cannons are an indicator of a fascist state? Huh?

    Mary,

    In answer to your question on the Brooks blog, no I am not an employee of Murdoch. Hardly surprising that you would ask such a thing as you dislike anyone who disagrees with your hyperbolic opinions. One could almost be tempted to ask if you are in the employment of Hamas, Fatah or even some anti-establishment mob given your frequent posts supporting those causes. However, since I believe people can hold and express radically different opinions without being paid for them I see no need.

  75. Just a note anout spent Nuclear fuel.

    There is a Reactor type, developed by the U.S.A. in tbe sixties but politically curtailed under the Nixon administration which can ‘burn’ spent Uranium fuel leaving a very significantly less radioactive by product. There are several variants: M.S.R. , Molten Salt Reactor and L.F.S.R. , Liquid Fluride Salt Reactor are two examples utilising Thorium which can use Uranium and Plutonium as fuel, therefore solving the waste problem. The west has largely ignored this tecnology, for reasons commercial as well as political; however India has an experimental solid fuelled Thorium reactor up and running and China is keen to develop a commercially viable L.F.S.R. within a generation.

    As for reactor leaks…….It is usually the ancillary piping to and from the reactor that develop leaks, rather than the reactor itself.

  76. Mick
    “in the employment of…some anti-establishment mob”

    Tsch, employment no. Our mobs are by free association only.

  77. Just ancillary piping, unimportant stuff like cooling and that. It wasn’t leaks at Fukushima, but simply loss of their external and backup power supply. It nearly happened at Hunterston on the Clyde too, no Tsunami needed, just high winds and a brief powercut ‘tripped’ that plant, we seen diesel fuel being requisitioned from petrol stations under armed guard, for backup generators that were unserviced and couldn’t be started. We’ll never know how close it came to meltdown, it nearly went rogue on other occasions too, thanks to jellyfish sucked up a coolant intake. Too expensive, too dangerous and requiring the sort of police security state we rightly abhor for the ‘privilege’ or terribly bad luck of having them in our midst, on our doorsteps.

    Nuclear power is finished, it has been humanity’s greatest folly after nuclear weapons, widespread nuclear contamination of land, air and seas is now reality. Continued human survival and habitability of this earth to which we are bound, now seems improbable.

  78. In the event of imminent meltdown, please see Emergency Procedures Manual, pages 88 to 113 and pages 440 to 457 entitled, Backup Generator Starting Procedures: “Obtaining a jump start from a passing Nissan Micra or other vehicle (assuming you or the Micra driver has a set of good long jump-leads)”.

  79. Some more of the creeping fascism of our state.

    A county council combines with the police.

    There is a fleet of camera cars going around and parked up to catch speeding motorists or those committing traffic offences. Not marked POLICE but SMART.

    That is http://www.drivesmartsurrey.org.uk/about-us/

    There are police desks in libraries and in local authority HQs now as nearly all the local police stations have closed.

    Where are the dividing lines as this melding of authority and control happens? The lines are becoming invisible.

  80. I asked ‘Mick’ if he worked for Murdoch as there seemed to be some defence of his evil empire/his employees going on.

    Mick
    Craig, I liked the post until the penultimate paragraph. I completely agree with you on the issue of her dangerous incompetence and the existance of a gilded cage. However, why drag in the issue of her affair and indeed that of Charles and Camilla? To be honest the list of things I find abhorrent about Brooks and the whole News International outfit is a long one but the fact she was carrying on with Coulson doesn’t feature. Admittedly, ‘toffs’ are more relaxed about bedhopping but then that is one of their more enlightened attitudes towards societal norms. As a a man who has admitted to playing offside I didn’t expect you to take the moral highground.

    Craig answered to the taunt.

    Then ‘Mick’ again
    Craig – I understand what you are getting at. I agree that the papers controlled by Brooks would have made a song and dance if any other editor had admitted to banging their deputy. I am not sure I agree with you about the super rich being given an easy ride, the red tops love to splash their lives all across the front pages too, Max Mosley is one example, but there are certainly those who are protected from public ridicule.

    Mary – you can talk about whoever you like in connection with the ‘temptress’ but without any proof it is just juvenile conjecture.

    ~~

    Then after I asked the question, Habbakuk chimed in

    From Mick

    “Mary – you can talk about whoever you like in connection with the ‘temptress’ but without any proof it is just juvenile conjecture”

    which elicited the following reply from Mary

    “Do you work for Murdoch Mick?”

    Which, I submit, proves Mick’s point about juvenile.

    ~~

    When all else fails, the word ‘juvenile’ pops out.

    A grade 2 troll in the making.

  81. Mary,

    My comment towards Craig was not a taunt, as you describe it, but an opinion and comment on his original post. I don’t believe Craig took it as a taunt as he responded in a measured way, as I then did in turn.

    I refute your claim that I was defending Murdoch or his former employees. You have kindly posted my comments, as I you will be able to read I stated quite clearly ‘I completely agree with you (Craig) on the issue of her dangerous incompetence…’ which was followed by ‘…the list of things I find abhorrent about Brooks and the whole News International outfit is a long one but the fact she was carrying on with Coulson doesn’t feature.’ What a strange defence of the evil empire! Whereas, if you consider the ‘taunt’ you will realise that my point was quite simple. In terms of what occurred at News International the staff shagging one another is really not a big deal.

    Please do not associate me with Habbakuk. I find many of his comments and themes as repetitive and tiresome as your own.

    Since you don’t like to be described as juvenile, how else would you describe your nudge nudge, wink wink allusion that Brooks may have enjoyed the intimate company of Blair and Cameron? How about scurrilous? Snide?

    When all else fails, or when you are challenged, you have only one response and that is type, and quite possibly scream at the computer, the word troll. It is quite pathetic either eturn the challenge or move on. Don’t hurl back such a hollow term as though that liberates you from the need to substantiate your remarks.

  82. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    2 Jul, 2014 - 2:49 pm

    Mick to Mary

    “When all else fails, or when you are challenged, you have only one response and that is type, and quite possibly scream at the computer, the word troll. It is quite pathetic either eturn the challenge or move on. Don’t hurl back such a hollow term as though that liberates you from the need to substantiate your remarks.”
    __________________

    There you go, Mary, you’ve been told!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    @Mick

    “Please do not associate me with Habbakuk. I find many of his comments and themes as repetitive and tiresome as your own.”
    _______________

    I know you have to write that otherwise you will be cast into the outer darkness by the Eminences and Useful idiots, but your post shows that you are beginning to gain confidence and you have got off to a promising start. Why, I’m sure you’ll soon be asserting, together with me, that

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  83. @ Tony M. I cannot comment on Hunterson although it sounds like it was very poorly designed with no real thought given to any negative scenarios.
    Nuclear power is not finished, in it’s present form it cannot continue for long but when, not if, Fusion becomes comercially viable, with the benefits of neglible radioactive waste, recycling potential of the parts and huge energy production either using Tokamak or laser techniques the only arguments against it will be that it allows developing countries too cheap electricity. As to all that radiation, perhaps the fact that between 1945 and 1998 there were over 2.000 nuclear weapons tests, over 500 above ground, not to mention the amount of accidents via plane crashes or other accidents that were hushed up but released radiation into the atmosphere.

  84. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    2 Jul, 2014 - 4:46 pm

    And yet….sofia….there was also the story of primates of the same species on two close islands. Observers noted that the monkeys on one island suddenly began washing their hands. Mere months later, the isolated 2nd group also began washing before a meal. It’s funny how the Observer Effect makes sprayers of us all.

  85. I agree about nuclear atmospheric testing, though banned as long ago as 1961-ish, its legacy is still encircling and contaminating the globe. In a rare outbreak of conscience scientists the world over could see the damage mounting and reined in the political and power elites. Accumulated high level civil nuclear power, which for a time merely were cover for military projects, the power produced negligible and incidental, wastes number ten of thousands of tons, they are accidents and leaks waiting to happen and over the timescales involved inevitable. Technological advance in one field, which you hope will rescue nuclear power from its species-extinguishing potentials and reputation, and which will remain, will of course be accompanied naturally by similar gains in other fields of cheaper, cleaner less dangerous energy production, generation and storage, wind, wave, even solar efficiency could take leaps into higher yields. Fusion reactors are just laboratory curiosities, fake models, impracticable theory and wishful thinking. Projects using proven technology, new hydro schemes and pumped storage are being completed in Scotland, which can use surplus wind energy to lift water up to high reservoirs, where it can then be released when demand is high and winds not so strong, simple and clean, compatible with all flora and fauna and harmless to human health. Infinitely preferable low-tech and working now, unlike your infinitely improbable pie in the sky nuclear confusion. If molten-salt is your thing, somebody should introduce you to Clark of this parish. The advantage of having all these nuclear physics qualified persons is that they can deal with the mess their predecessors have left, if I had you to tea however, I’d shake your hand wearing thick gloves and sit you at the far opposite side of the table.

  86. Sofia,

    Your comment re. my two pennies worth was noted.

    I now see this on Press TV:-

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/02/369616/us-to-send-4000-missiles-to-iraq/

    Well …well – milk the cow both ways – invade and create chaos – then sell the weapons ostensibly to quell the chaos you created ( at a profit to boot)!

  87. @ Tony M. I really like bananas but sitting at the opposite end of the table, let alone wearing thick gloves is a little too precautionary principal to my way of thinking!

    I mentioned the Fluoride type reactors as a way of utilising waste to produce energy on an industrial scale whilst drastically diminishing excruciatingly harmful products caused by typically blind political thinking.

    I agree about Hydro and condemn Green? peace Ha! for persuading the abandonment of 2 hydro schemes in South America recently.

    As to fusion, it will become a reality simply because the stubborn sometimes egotistical curiosity of man will demand that the huge tecnical and scientific barriers are climed and banished. As to laboratory curiosities, at 360.000 tonnes, the ITER experiment at Cadarache in the south of France has got to be the heaviest bit of wishful thiking yet contrived.

  88. Tony M, 2 Jul, 12:33 pm:

    “…widespread nuclear contamination of land, air and seas is now reality. Continued human survival and habitability of this earth to which we are bound, now seems improbable”

    Since 1945 there have indeed been thousands of emissions of radioactive contamination into the environment. Life in general does not seem to have been hindered. I believe that such contamination is probably largely responsible for the large increases in cancer and other illnesses in recent decades. Such effects are personal and family tragedies, of course, but they do not threaten to wipe out humanity; indeed, since 1945 the human population has more than doubled, and continues to rise. Species are becoming extinct at an alarming rate, but this is mostly due to habitat loss; nuclear contamination and genetic mutation hardly figure. Even the most contaminated and irradiated areas such as around Chernobyl, Hiroshima, bomb test islands etc. are far from being wastelands devoid of life. There is a high incidence of mutation that causes a proportion of plants and animals to die very young, but overall most species continue to thrive despite these losses.

    Tony M, nuclear contamination does horrible things, but I think you’re underestimating how robust and versatile life is. We live in a nuclear universe. We’re sustained by a natural fusion reactor 150 million kilometres away, but don’t go thinking it’s “clean”; all life on Earth is adapted to exploit the narrow window of protection offered by the atmosphere and the magnetosphere, and you can still get cancer from sunshine or too many jet flights. Earth itself is a multi-terrawatt fission reactor, with the decay of uranium constantly causing it to burp radioactive radon gas and other isotopes. Burning coal and hydrocarbons releases tonnes of radioactive carbon into the atmosphere; lots of stuff from underground is radioactive through activation. Brazil nuts and tobacco are radioactive, er, I think it’s due to naturally activated phosphate fertilisers.

    Life’s defences to radioactivity go back a long way. Earth was far more radioactive when it was younger, which is why cells have genetic repair mechanisms as a fundamental part of the cell division process. Cells knew how to live with radiation for billions of years before the first multi-celled organisms evolved.

    Tony, I’m not belittling the dangers of nuclear power. The typical Generation II power reactors need to be shut down and dismantled (or do what? Use each one till it blows up?). More recent designs are probably safe to use but I’m opposed due to their fuel inefficiency and consequent production of actinide “waste”.

    The authorities certainly play down and cover up the detrimental health effects of radioactive pollution, but it really doesn’t look like a threat to life, or even to any particular species. What it is is a life-wrecker for millions of people. And also for billions of animals and lesser organisms.

    My book recommendation might surprise you: Wings of Death by Dr Chris Busby. It’s not an easy read so don’t rush it.

  89. John Leon, 2 Jul, 4:28 pm: if you’re interested in fission at all I recommend you investigate Molten Salt Reactors (MSRs) as a way of disposing of “spent” nuclear fuel. MSRs seem capable of transmuting actinide “waste” or “spent fuel” into reaction product isotopes with much shorter half-lives. They can burn plutonium and depleted uranium with greater stability than fast reactors. Look for a French project called AMSTER – which is just a set of designs and computer simulations, unfortunately. Only two MSRs have ever been built:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor#Liquid-salt_very-high-temperature_reactor

  90. Tony M, 2 Jul, 5:10 pm:

    “…new hydro schemes and pumped storage [...] compatible with all flora and fauna and harmless to human health. Infinitely preferable low-tech and working now…”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam_failure#List_of_major_dam_failures

    Dam failures are comparatively rare, but can cause immense damage and loss of life when they occur. In 1975 the failure of the Banqiao Reservoir Dam and other dams in Henan Province, China caused more casualties than any other dam failure in history. The disaster killed an estimated 171,000 people and 11 million people lost their homes.

    Nuclear power is not a special case.

  91. John Leon, I missed your 2 Jul, 11:31 am comment; good to see that word is getting about.

  92. John Leon, if you find the AMSTER paper, you’ll see the drawback. They can operate the MSR to burn actinide waste including plutonium, but the actinides can only be a small percentage of the fuel, the rest being thorium, I think. Assuming we build enough such MSRs to supply all our electricity, it will still take several hundred years to dispose of the waste we already have.

  93. ‘“I think it is an oversimplification to say the increase in diagnosis is from the overuse of technology and only relates to small tumors that are insignificant,” said Dr. Steven Sherman, medical director of the endocrine center at the University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. “There is a component that relates to increased technology, but until we can do a better job at predicting the outcomes for individuals who develop cancer we still need to treat each case.”

    Physicians are fairly clueless about what else could account for this mysterious rise in incidence. Exposure to radiation from the Chernobyl nuclear power plant accident in 1986 and radioactive fallout from nuclear weapons testing in the 1950s have long been linked to thyroid cancer, but they would not account for all the new cases.

    Regardless of the reported increase in small tumors, the standard of care for thyroid cancer remains the same as it was two decades ago. Patients must undergo a thryoidectomy, a surgical procedure that removes all or half of the thyroid gland. Afterward, many patients also require a radioactive iodine treatment, which kills any remaining cancer cells.’
    http://www.nytimes.com/ref/health/healthguide/esn-thyroid-cancer-ess.html

    Strange irony that radioactivity is needed to destroy what may have been harmed by radioactivity.

  94. Mick. I got you wrong and I apologize unreservedly.

    It’s just that there has been a bit of history on this board.

  95. Mary,

    Thank you for your words. Look forward to exchanging views in the future.

    Mick

  96. @ Clark. Thanks for the links. I read a lot about Nuclear energy but as I grow older a lot slips from my mind. I cannot possibly predict the future but perhaps several evoloutions of M.S.R.’s will provide a technology to eliminate the problems now burdening us in relation to Nuclear waste. One thing I won’t accept though is that Fusion is not viable and I believe it is closer that a lot of people believe.

  97. John Leon, fusion should prove viable eventually. But some sort of fission would seem to be required to dispose of long-lived actinide wastes from spent fuel. It looks like it’s something that’s going to have to be done anyway, because so many parties object to every proposed site for long-term “disposal”. No one has been burying the stuff, and now there’s so much stored that if the proposed repositories were built they could be filled immediately.

    Tony M, I know you don’t like reactors, but what do you suggest? Bury the stuff?

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