“Am I sometimes exasperated by the barmier entries, including by those who appear to believe that all terrorism is always false flag? Yes, I am sometimes. But no more than I am exasperated by those who swallow the entire war on terror agenda and the associated wars and attacks on liberty at home.”
I am having an interesting dialogue with angrysoba in comments on his blogpost about one of my blogposts. Some people don’t seem to get the concept of open debate. Angrysoba appears to be angry because he believes it is wrong for anyone to be allowed to express views which he deplores.
http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/2009/12/british-ambassador-and-his-loony.html
Anticant,
Sorry for the late reply, I left it a while because I didn’t want to divert to topic again.
When I stated Muslims do not want to dominate you I was talking about ALL Muslims not just myself. Right now we are a dominated people, we are too busy trying to live with this domination to be concerned about dominating others.
When I stated that I am the extreme, I wasn’t being tongue in check, I meant it literally. I am not one of those new liberal westernised whatever they call themselves who try and suck up to the dominate indigenous culture, I see myself as being in the extreme opposite to that gang.
I will try and be as clear as possible. Muslims do not want to kill you. It is drunken football hooligans, Hoodies and chavs who gay bash not Muslims.
You probably know that the Christian/Jewish Bible mandates the death penalty for Homosexual acts, Leviticus 20:13. Gay bashers do not kill or beat people because of this verse, they do so because they are violent thugs who would beat someone else up just as easily.
The reason why you wouldn’t get a Christian priest or a Jewish Rabbi implementing this rule, is laws came for governments, not individuals. But when it comes to belief, they believe in that verse of the Bible as much as they believe in any other.
The Quran sets a punishment for heterosexual fornication as 100 lashes. Just as you are not in danger of being killed by Christians and Jews who believe in the whole Bible including Leviticus 20:13, heterosexual fornicators in this country are not in danger of being whipped by a Muslim 100 times. Why?
Laws came for rulers, to be implemented by judges and enforced by the police. This country is not an Islamic state, you and they are not going to be arrested for your life styles.
The Sunnah (Recorded words and actions of the Prophet pbh) mandates the death penalty for Heterosexual adultery, Bestiality and the homosexual acts of sodomy(both parties). You are in no danger from us. This country is not an Islamic state, the only people allowed to enforce such laws are the police so no one will attack you for your way of life other then drunken thugs, but they would have attacked you even if you were not gay using some other excuse.
The reason why I am writing this is to show you I am not trying to brush anything under the carpet, I do not lie to make myself, my coreligionists or what I believe to be God’s Final revelation something which it is not. I am someone who couldn’t careless what people think of me or my religion. I give people the facts and then they can make up their own minds. So when I tell you, you are not going to be attacked by me, or any practicing Muslim, I mean that and I am not saying it to make you think Islam is some sort of liberal, humanistic secular philosophy. The only people likely to attack you are drunken thugs and they would have done so even if you were not gay because I am not and I’ve been beaten up by them when they used other excuses such as Arsenal losing a football match.
The population of this country are not suddenly going to convert to Islam, and even if they do suddenly decide to do so within your life time, and decide to rule this country by Islam you are still not in danger because for someone to be punished for Fornication, adultery and homosexuality they would need to do that act in front of four trust worthy witnesses, and the witnesses would have had to witnessed pen in ink at the sametime.
So let me make this as clear as possible, no one wants to dominate you. Muslims are not plotting to do some sort of revolution here. So you are in no danger of being dominated. Even if Muslims were planning to do something like that they will not be interested in what you get up to in your own bedroom. Unless you do what you should have done in your bedroom out in the street, but in that case you would have been punished even if you were heterosexual. Even if someone decides to do it where others can see, any less then four witnesses who witnessed pen in ink will mean all the witnesses are wiped for slander.
“wow angrysoba lost the cool, and the argument, i wonder if he’ll go now to JREF or SLC or his own blogspot shithole and post how ‘craig murray is a nut’ and how we’re all nutters here for questioning 9/11 and the consequent war on terror.
all from his nice cozy government paid room in Japan…
sad sad sad”
Ha ha! Brilliant.
I can’t see what argument I lost. I said I don’t know why it’s illegal to deny the Holocaust in some countries but offered a few plausible reasons. Jaded says I am wrong and says that it is inexplicable that it is illegal to deny the Holocaust. I don’t see how he won an argument on the strength of that.
‘You never answered the question of why ‘Holocaust denial’ always seems to be inextricably linked to racism by the way. I think it is a very important question and needs answering. I have thought about it using logic. Surely, any ‘anti-semitic nutter’ would be glorifying the ‘Holocaust’ and not denying it? That’s how I see it.’
Angrysoba, oh site guru, do you have an answer to this question or not?
Jaded:
Answers were given.
Why are you persisting in this belligerent off-topic badgering?
You are beginning to seem obsessed with that huge chip on your shoulder.
Jews suffered terribly in WWII, along with Poles, gypsies, handicapped and many other people. Denying the atrocities deepens the wounds, and that is why some countries legislate against denial – in an attempt to prevent further suffering.
Why do you not see that?
PS I am not Jewish, Zionist, nor paid by Zog.
Bear, answers were given to ‘some’ questions eventually after repeatedly asking, which I did find very strange given the unlimited answers to any topic these people seemed to have at their disposal. However, if by saying ‘answers were given’ you are referring to my previous post you are 100% ‘incorrect’, as no answer was given to that question. Moreover, if you take the time to reread the thread properly, which you obviouisly haven’t done, you will clearly see it wasn’t I that introduced this issue to the thread. Maybe you should tell them to shut up? Furthermore, we are not talking about ‘denying atrocities’ perpetrated against a variety of groups, which I am fully aware indeed happened. We are talking about legislation introduced to set in stone a very specific and narrow viewpoint about the attempted systematic extermination of one of the said groups, the Jews, which has been cynically exaggerated and used for political gain. Why do you not see that?
All this black and white ‘did happen’/’didn’t happen’ nonsense is just beyond me and for little kiddies and morons to fight over. The people that introduced this legislation are dangerous and clowns.
Jaded, I’ve submitted an answer to your question but it hasn’t appeared yet as it has a number of links.
You’ll just have to wait for it.
“The people that introduced this legislation are dangerous and clowns.”
http://www.executedtoday.com/images/John_Wayne_Gacy_Pogo_the_clown.jpg
Arsalan, no doubt you believe what you say is true, but like so many posters here you prefer your cherished beliefs to hard facts.
Before you repeat with such cocksureness that Muslims don’t hate gays and wish them no harm, please read “Unspeakable Love: Gay and Lesbian Life in the Middle East” by Brian Whitaker (Saqi Books, 2006). I hope that others will too, and decide for themselves how realistic your bland honeyed assurances are.
Yes, don’t speak for yourself. Just post a raft of links.
I just checked out angrisoba’s blog.
I reckon I’ll be spending more time here this year than there!
The guy is a gate-keeper.The knee-jerk resort to the term “conspiracy theorist” to describe anyone who questions official historical accounts of the “Holocaust”,the JFK assassination,9/11,Dr Kelly,7/7 is a clue to the way this guy is covering the backsides of the elites he pretends to critique.
The official accounts in all the above cases are indecently threadbare and ultimately unsustainable.
What angrisoba and gate-keepers like him can’t get their heads around is the fact that the majority of the public are now firmly in the “conspiracy” camp.Now it has become abundantly clear that elites have used the corporate media,official history and cover-ups to deceive us about their true agenda people are no longer willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Most people now understand that elites plan in secret,that their public pronouncements are mere window dressing.There is an increasing acknowledgement that we need to be vigilant about any semblance of democracy we might have left.
In other words we have to hold them to account all the time not just every five years.
angrisoba,and gate-keepers,like him use the term “conspiracy theorist” in the same way elites use it-to marginalize any questioning of official reality.
The fact that angrisoba refers pejoratively to the 9/11 “Troof” movement gives you some idea of the abject level of elite conditioning to which he’s succumbed.When someone can’t even spell the word “truth” it’s a sure sign that they have become a stranger to it.They have gone so far down the road of internalizing official histories as “facts” that these often transparent fallacies are now part of their cellular structure.
Notwithstanding postmodernist problematizations of the concept of truth the fact that it is the most desirable end to the path that human curiosity and enquiry might take remains.
My advice to all fans of Craig’s blog and the open forum it provides is to jealously guard it from would-be censors like angrisoba.
His blog will go the way of all the other cyphers for state disinformation should-in the bin or down the toilet!
“I don’t have a problem with Israel. However, I think they should stop trying to rule the U.K. and U.S.”
This, plus the ongoing denial of the Final Solution, is evidence of a very sick, very classically antisemitic mind. Why bother to engage with such sick people?
“Zionism is a political movement based on the premise that one group of people should be able to emigrate to Palestine and displace the indigenous population”
As dumb and ignorant and antisemitic as it gets. The Jews are a nation. They are the indigenous population of Israel. Zionism is their national liberation movement in their own country.
Have I mentioned that you are a thick antisemite?
Yes, it is very sick to want the rulers of your country not to be from another country. I sincerely apologise for such thoughts. ;-0
I don’t see any quotes to back up your other mindless and crazy ramblings so i’ll leave you to wallow in your sick pit of denial and paranoia. One day you might be able to clamber out my son, one day. I sincerely hope so anyway… ;-0
jaded,
you are a punk, a nasty and rather stupid punk.
What’s the matter with you? Anti-semite?
At least try to keep on topic.
“We are talking about legislation introduced to set in stone a very specific and narrow viewpoint about the attempted systematic extermination of one of the said groups, the Jews, which has been cynically exaggerated and used for political gain. Why do you not see that?”
Even if this is true, which I don’t think it is, why does it matter to you, and why go on and on and on about it in this thread?
The reason some countries introduced these laws against holocaust denial was precisely to deter punks like you from upsetting the survivors.
You are a far-right UKIP anti-semite, and you remind me very much of someone I met in the Norwich North campaign.
Oh, and like Bear says, I am not Jewish or Zionist or paid by ‘Zog’. I don’t agree with many acts by modern Israel. But that doesn’t mean I have to accept your mewling.
I’m an anglo-saxon anti-racist and I know bigotry when I see it.
“i’ll leave you to wallow in your sick pit of denial and paranoia”
Finally some self-knowledge from Jaded, an utterly ignorant and antisemitic moron.
Jaded,
You asked me why it is that Holocaust deniers are usually anti-semites when according to you they should be fans of the Holocaust.
“I have thought about it using logic. Surely, any ‘anti-semitic nutter’ would be glorifying the ‘Holocaust’ and not denying it? That’s how I see it.'”
Where your “logic” falls down is that some Holocaust deniers don’t necessarily truly believe a Holocaust didn’t happen but for propaganda purposes they want to convince others that the Nazis weren’t that bad. Maybe some of them are like you and are eager to believe that the Holocaust is a lie to benefit the Jews, which is what your stated belief is.
But whatever stupid “Troofer” logic you employ the evidence is that Holocaust deniers are anti-semites.
Do you think Richard Harwood, National Front member and author of “Did Six Million Really Die?” is not an anti-semite?
Do you think that Holocaust denier former Grand Wizard of the KKK, David Duke is not an anti-semite?
Do you think that Holocaust denier Robert Faurisson is not an anti-semite?
Do you think that Holocaust denier David Irving is not an anti-semite?
angrysoba, Jaded doesn’t “think”. He merely copies screeds from neo-nazi websites.
Interesting, Barbara: do you also ‘not agree with many acts by modern China, Norway, Japan, Peru and Greece’? Or do you feel compelled to make this absurd and mealy-mouthed statement with regard to Israel only?
And while we are at it:
Does Murray think that the Jews deserve to be free in their own country?
Does angrysoba think that the Jews deserve to be free in their own country?
Does Jadummkopf think that the Jews deserve to be free in their own country?
The term “semite” more accurately describes the indigenous Palestinians than it does the so-called “Jews”.
The Askenazi are by far the dominant group among World Jewry and they are not semites at all.They are descendants of the Turkic-Mongol Khazar population of central Russia who converted to Judaism in the ninth century.
The Askenazi have no legitimate claim on Palestine at all.We might just as well argue that the 50m or so muslims who live in China are entitled to a state of their own in the Arabian peninsula!
Bandying round the historically meaningless “anti-semite” label is a bit like calling anyone who challenges the official Jewish “Holocaust” narrative a “denier”.
Both terms like the “conspiracy theorist” label are thinly disguised propaganda instruments designed to marginalize those who challenge official versions of history.
Oh FFS, not the dumb, ignorant canard about the Khazars again.
But what do you expect from a brainless antisemite who gets his ‘information’ from neo-nazi websites, who refers to the ‘so-called’ Jews, who thinks that there is a racial group called ‘semites’ and who thinks that there is an ethnicity called ‘Palestinians’.
What a loser.
The Mongol-Turkic origins of the Askenazi Jews may not fit well with the Talmudic claptrap you peddle re-the Jews being the Chosen People but it is more than a canard.
The Khazar theory has exercised writers and researchers,especially Jewish ones, for centuries.Koestler’s Thirteenth Tribe(1976),The Jews of Khazaria by Kevin Alan Brook(1999)and most recently Schlomo Sand’s book excited huge interest particularly in Israel.
Only someone who fears that the Zionist foundational myth might be exposed would dismiss the theory as “a dumb ignorant canard”.
LOL. Koestler was a novellist with nil training in ethnology.
Oh, and btw: his book came out ca. 80 years ago, you utter prat, not in 1976.
Sand, likewise, is an idiot with no training whatsoever in the field. His book is a tissue of inventions and lies. No wonder you like it.
Recent genetic research has demonstrated very clearly that Ashkenazi Jews are related closely to Yemenite, Iraqi and Moroccan Jews.
Over 50% of Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent. Are they Europeans too, as antisemites like you would probably claim?
Or perhaps Yemenite Jews are also Khazars, Turks or whatever else your sick, ignorant, hate-fuelled so-called ‘mind’ would come up with?
PS. I never mentioned either the Talmud or anything about ‘chosen people’, you illiterate Neanderthal antisemitic loser.
“you illiterate Neanderthal antisemitic loser”
WTF is wrong with you? You’re ridiculously hot under the collar and wayyy out of line. You sound like you’re in a very bad way, healthwise. Otherwise you should be able to debate without resorting to ad hominem every two minutes.
When I debate with Nazi scum who tell me that my nation doesn’t exist, I’ll use any phrase I bloody well please.
“Way out of line”? Who the f*** DO you think you are, little man?
No disrespect to you, Craig, but I have recently become increasingly pissed off with the violently abusive tone of an increasing number of comments posted on your blog, which make civilised debate impossible. No need to name names – a glance through this thread is enough.
I am entirely with you about the need to champion free speech, and not to bar anyone because of their opinions, however obnoxious to others. But that is a separate issue from permitting guttersnipe lavatory language and filthy personal abuse of those from whom one differs.
Frankly, reading this stuff I sometimes feel that if these people were face to face in a pub bar they would be smashing glasses into each other’s faces, and it isn’t pleasant. In fact, it’s major reason why I won’t be posting here so often, if at all, in future.
If you want your blog to continue to perform the important and useful function that it undoubtedly does, please ask these people to take their hissy fits elsewhere.
Zionist propagandists like you are the syphillitic spots on the arsehole of humanity we can well do without.
Thirteenth Tribe was published in 1976 in the US by Random House and in London by Hutchinson in the same year you dingbat!
That’s less than thirty years ago.
Your Maths is as dumbed-down as your politics.
Koestler was something of a polymath.(No that doesn’t mean he was good at maths jerk-off!)His non-fiction included autobiography and biography as well as history,psychology,philosophy,and travel.He was far too erudite to have any appeal a retard like you.(No,airhead-erudite is not a glue!)
Like the work of Sand and Brook,Koestler’s work on the Khazarian ancestry of the Askenazi Jews has been taken seriously by most current researchers in the field.
The medieval documentary evidence cites Judaism as by far the most important religion-often the only religion- practised in the Khazar region.Hebrew script is noted in these sources as being the script of the tenth century Khazars.Khazarian and Hebraic imagery are often found on the same artefact.
The Kievan letter discovered in 1962 demonstrates both the authenticity of the Hebrew texts pertaining to Khazar Jews and the wide acceptance of Judaism across the whole Khazarian kingdom up to its furthest extent in Kiev.The Kozare district in the city attests to the Khazar migration there.
Skulls with Mongolian features were discovered in Serbia in 1972.Soviet archaelogists ascribed the presence at the site of Jewish artefacts like menorahs,shofars and etogs to Kabar tribes from Khazaria who had kept their Judaism in what was then Hungary.
Yugoslavian archaelogical sources found extensive Jewish religious artefacts at a similar burial site near Novi Sad excavated from 1972.
The current genetic consensus is that the existence of European (including Western Slavic)Khazarian ancestry among European Jews is beyond.
By the way Koestler also wrote a book which might interest you.In fact he probably named it after you.It’s called The Scum of the Earth written about eighty years ago in 1941!
That must be the book you meant,dickhead!
‘I just checked out angrisoba’s blog.
I reckon I’ll be spending more time here this year than there!
The guy is a gate-keeper.The knee-jerk resort to the term “conspiracy theorist” to describe anyone who questions official historical accounts of the “Holocaust”,the JFK assassination,9/11,Dr Kelly,7/7 is a clue to the way this guy is covering the backsides of the elites he pretends to critique.
The official accounts in all the above cases are indecently threadbare and ultimately unsustainable.
What angrisoba and gate-keepers like him can’t get their heads around is the fact that the majority of the public are now firmly in the “conspiracy” camp.Now it has become abundantly clear that elites have used the corporate media,official history and cover-ups to deceive us about their true agenda people are no longer willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Most people now understand that elites plan in secret,that their public pronouncements are mere window dressing.There is an increasing acknowledgement that we need to be vigilant about any semblance of democracy we might have left.
In other words we have to hold them to account all the time not just every five years.
angrisoba,and gate-keepers,like him use the term “conspiracy theorist” in the same way elites use it-to marginalize any questioning of official reality.
The fact that angrisoba refers pejoratively to the 9/11 “Troof” movement gives you some idea of the abject level of elite conditioning to which he’s succumbed.When someone can’t even spell the word “truth” it’s a sure sign that they have become a stranger to it.They have gone so far down the road of internalizing official histories as “facts” that these often transparent fallacies are now part of their cellular structure.
Notwithstanding postmodernist problematizations of the concept of truth the fact that it is the most desirable end to the path that human curiosity and enquiry might take remains.
My advice to all fans of Craig’s blog and the open forum it provides is to jealously guard it from would-be censors like angrisoba.
His blog will go the way of all the other cyphers for state disinformation should-in the bin or down the toilet!’
Excellent post. You have summed things up very well indeed.
‘Where your “logic” falls down is that some Holocaust deniers don’t necessarily truly believe a Holocaust didn’t happen but for propaganda purposes they want to convince others that the Nazis weren’t that bad.’
You have let slip there my old mucker. It hasn’t taken me too long donning my deerstalker hat to figure out what you and your cronies are about. Three attacking comments in 26 minutes? All a bit of a coincidence methinks! You and your deviant buddies Babs, Gords and Beary are obviously a secret BNP crew that are desperately throwing around ‘anti-semitic’ jibes, with no evidence whatsoever I might add, in a futile attempt to distract attention from yourselves you disgusting people. Well, you don’t fool me i’m afraid! Be off with you filthy swines. And as for Harwood, Duke, Faurisson and Irving – well – it sounds like you are flippantly mouthing off words while gazing at life size posters of your heros which adorn your bedroom walls. I rest my case. You have all been well and truely Punk’d. Don’t fret though. It’s ok… 😉
Paranoia and panic again.
I recognise your far-right UKIP views and bigotry and you associate me with the BNP?
Whatever.
Typical punk ‘reasoning’.