The Rachel Corrie has now been illegally boarded by the Israeli military in international waters.
As usual the BBC’s immediate reaction is simply to retail Israeli propaganda. The Rachel Corrie has been boarded “with the full compliance of the crew”, BBC News tells us. That is almost certainly not true, unless you count without violent resistance as “full compliance”.
If that were true, you might wonder why Israel had jammed – again contrary to maritime law – all the Rachel Corrie’s communications with the outside world, and why they are still jammed. The BBC did not mention that.
The organisers have just posted this:
“For the second time in less then a week, Israeli naval commandos stormed an unarmed aid ship, brutally taking its passengers hostage and towing the ship toward Ashdod port in Southern Israel.”
But the BBC is much more concerned to help ensure that the Israeli version has unquestioned domination of the initial news.
Look, Craig, this was meant to be a political discussion! It was Arsalan who took it in a religious direction!
He sticks up for Islam, I stick up for Christianity! OK!
“I stick up for Christianity”
that would be *your* particular version of Christianity
to the best of my recollection Jesus himself had, due to a slight timing difference, precisely biff all to say on the subject of Islam
and quite a lot to say about not killing people
Gondor, Craig, not Narnia! Gondor!
StefZ, do you have any sense of history, or what? Jesus said nothing about Islam because he preceded Muhammad by 6 centuries!
“He sticks up for Islam, I stick up for Christianity! OK!”
Yeah, Craig Murray has no problem with jihadist hatred at his site, but he would certainly have a problem with someone like you.
Michael, I hate to break it to you but the kingdom of Solomon and David is a myth. Kingdoms at the time of the size and importance of David’s as described in the Torah left a wealth of archaeological information, not just buildings but written documents too.
David’s kingdom left absolutely nothing.
“StefZ, do you have any sense of history, or what? Jesus said nothing about Islam because he preceded Muhammad by 6 centuries!”
at least equal to yours
have a cup of tea and a nice wee rest then read my post again. I recall making reference to a timing difference
and the fact that Jesus wasn’t a bloodthirsty pyscho
who almost certainly would disapprove of shooting people in the back of the head on boats
To me peoples from Muslim and Christian countries are not so different and share certain values but the Israelis appear to have completely different moral standards.
Michael Petek
“I would say the the Old Testament is a real estate contract in the following sense: The LORD, the God of Israel, has given eternal sovereignty of Israel to David and his sons by an inviolable covenant (2 Chronicles 13:5).”
Thanks for the reply Michael.
So where do I sign up for this free plot of land?
A desperate attempt to supply Gaza’s luxury restaurants has failed and resulted in deaths. Perhaps catering will solve the tragedy.
Arabs continue to play the disproportion game wherein having the bigger gun is deemed immoral and intent is thrown out the window. 2000-3000 rockets flying out of Gaza mean nothing to the international media in such a scenario. Arabs across the region will bang the drum while holding the children of the now extinct ‘refugees’ hostage in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Gaza itself. Nice PR move if one likes George Orwell or has the mind of a child.
“To me peoples from Muslim and Christian countries are not so different and share certain values but the Israelis appear to have completely different moral standards.”
I think you delude yourself such that you think the IDF opened fire on that ship without provocation.
The fact is that the martyrdom candidates attacked the IDF boarding party with the only weapons the Turkish authorities would allow them to have.
Michael Petek the new Zionist bitch said:
“One of these days you will be opposed in battle by Israel’s immortal King, whom you cannot see and against whom you cannot fight.”
I’m sure we will, we know him by Dejjal, and the Christian know him by AntiChrist.
He will come, and you are right, he will defeat us, and when he is about to wipe out the last of us, Jesus will descend from heaven, defeat him and kill him.
We are the ones who believe in Jesus and you the Zionists are the ones who worship the Antichrist.
And that isn’t surprising, who other than the followers of the Antichrist would attacks ships filled with food and medicine?
Michael Petek :
“He sticks up for Islam, I stick up for Christianity! OK!”
What you stick up for is not Christianity. You are in no way shape or form a Christian. You are about as AntiChristian as it is possible to be, or should that be Antichrist!
Christians are those Irish people who ricked their lives trying to take food to the Palestinians, they will have their reward from God.
I repeat, you are not a Christian!
But the same satan who has convinced you to support the racist state of Israel has convinced you, that you are a follower of christian, when you are clearly a follower of the Antichrist.
Jesus would not let anyone starve, each and everyone who knows anything about him, christian or not knows that he would be on those boats doing whatever he could to get food to the hungry. While you, do what you can to justify starving babies.
I repeat, you are not a Christian. But the God of every religion and everyone has blinded you to this.
You said:
“StefZ, do you have any sense of history, or what? Jesus said nothing about Islam because he preceded Muhammad by 6 centuries!”
And I say, the satan that has blinded you to so much has also blinded you to this verse and its true meaning:
John 14:26 ” But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
amk, that’s a sweeping statement if ever there was one. David and Solomon’s empire was short-lived and therefore would not have left a great deal in the archaeology. The line continued through the Kings of Judah the last of whom was deposed by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar.
True, Jesus wasn’t and isn’t a bloodthirsty psycho. But if you read the book of Revelation you’ll see he is just in judgement and just in war.
He also says something in Luke’s Gospel (19:27) that says:
“But as for those my enemies, who would not have me reign over them, bring them hither, and kill them before me.”
Would he disapprove of people being shot in the head? He’d most probably regard a shot in the head as being the logical consequence of picking a fight with soldiers as opposed to doing as you’re told and sailing for Ashdod.
Arsalan, you are a prime twat! God isn’t the God of every religion,he’s the God of the true one, not yours.
You call me the Antichrist. Trouble is, I’ve got two eyes, Dajjal according to Islam has only one.
@ Michael,
If I am to take you seriously, I would recommend that you read Professor Sholomo Sands ” The invention of the Jewish people”.
If you are hinging your claim of “legal right” to some sort of Biblical contractual absolute, how then does a mere mortal, such as I am, debate the voice of the almighty, coming as it does through an earthly medium?
You say:-
“Courtenay Barnett, your long posting deserves an answer.
Half of the 700,000 Arabs who were displaced from their homes either by evacuation, flight or direct expulsion were displaced before the establishment of the State of Israel, when there was no state authority capable of keeping the public peace.
Therefore, it was imperative to establish a state of one kind or another, whether Arab, Jewish or Balto-Peruvian, simply to stop the killing and destruction.
Anyone who, thereafter, resisted the establishment or consolidation of the state – or who refused to bear allegiance to it while present within it – was a traitor and had no place in it.
In the event, some Arabs stayed amd were allowed to keep their possessions and have political rights in Israel.
I wonder what would have happened to the Jews if the Arabs had been the ones to establish a state, with Haj Amin al-Husseini at its head.”
Taking the commencement of your post:-
“Half of the 700,000 Arabs who were displaced from their homes either by evacuation, flight or direct expulsion were displaced before the establishment of the State of Israel,…”
Precisely, they were displaced to establish the state of Israel. But it seems Michael, that you attribute no rights to those people. And then, no doubt, if we pursue the article, we arrive full circle back to the “Chosen people” who have rights and the Palestinians, who have none.
Anyway, in a proper and polite manner, I thank you for your response to my post.
The new Zionist bastard said:
“Arsalan, you are a prime twat! God isn’t the God of every religion,he’s the God of the true one, not yours.”
I believe everyone of every religion who calls to their God calls to my God.
You believe your religion has some sort of monopoly on God, as if he is your own private property, belonging to your gang.
I know what you, I have spoken to you bastards before, and we will find out in the next life who is right and who is wrong.
“You call me the Antichrist.”
Did I?
What I meant is you are a follower of the anti-Christ and not a follower of the Christ as you wrongly claim.
But when it comes to being one eyed. That is exactly the phrase I will use to describe your outlook on what happened.
And I am sure everyone here will agree, you one eyed, even if you have two functioning eye balls.
This thread has officially left orbit. I posted some way back that noone with a modicum of sanity gives a rats ass what any of these pre-medieval holy books has to say about modern times. And the above gang of god-botherers proved me right.
Justification for killing is all I’m hearing.
@Michael Petek
You quoted:
“But as for those my enemies, who would not have me reign over them, bring them hither, and kill them before me.”
If this fantasy of yours happens and your around for it. Will you turn your gun or sword on your current IDF heroes?
Because the Israelis ain’t to fond of the idea of Jesus being their President.
“As for enforced starvation, according to UN figures the crude death rate for Gaza is between 3 and 4 per thousand. In the UK it is 10 per thousand. Not exactly the siege of Leningrad.”
As the saying goes, there’s lies, damn lies, and then, there’s statistics…
Nice try, Michael Patek, indeed much more sophisticated than Larry’s output, but if you want to use crude death rates to highlight health or living conditions, these must first be age-adjusted. Countries with widely differing demographics cannot be so easily compared. The UK has a much higher proportion of elderly people. This age group quite naturally has a high mortality rate, which, of course, pushes up the crude death rate, especially in comparison with countries with a very high proportion of children.
Please note the relevant stats for 2010:
Gaza: 44.4% under 14; 53% aged 15-64 and 2.6% aged 65+
UK : 16.7% under 14; 67.1% aged 15-64 and 16.2% aged 65+
If you allow for the fact that, all in all, 56% of Gazans are under 16, whereas in the UK we’ll soon have more people of pensionable age than children under 16, you quickly realize that comparing crude death rates of countries with such diverse demographics is not just misleading, it’s actually pretty pointless.
You could compare infant mortality rates instead (UK: 4.85 per thousand, Gaza 18.35 per thousand), or child mortality rates (under-5’s UK: 6 per thousand, West Bank and Gaza 27 per thousand), or, indeed, the mortality rates of any other age group to give a more realistic picture of the situation – if you wanted to.
Mike Cobley, I agree with you. With respect, all this stuff about religion, while fascinating is itself, really is irrelevant in the context of the thread. It is, though, perhaps reflective of the essential idiocy of absolutism and that is of pertinence in relation to ‘The Holy Land’. Sometimes, I wish that God had chosen to reveal Himself in text, flesh or spirit (in any one, two or three of these) in Antarctica. Penguins would’ve made a better job of the world, I reckon, than have we. While the argument was mainly about land, there was the possibility of a solution. When it’s about God, there can be only absolute victory and absolute defeat, Paradise and Armageddon. It’s pointless, a dead end.
Let’s talk corporate militarist economy. Let’s talk about Israel’s enormous conventional and nuclear arsenals (in the name of a God whose name cannot be spoken). Let’s talk about Saudi Arabia’s heinously oppressive laws (in the name of a God whose name trips too easily off the lips). Let’s talk about the massive support provided by the USA to both of these ‘God-states’ and to other oppressors in the region who stifle their/ other peoples’ aspirations, needs and rights, for the purposes of maintaining hegemonic control of wealth, power and resources in the region for the benefit of the rich companies of the world.
Neil Barker, you say: “I pointed out that he isn’t a member of the Irish government. He isn’t”.
But he is a member of the devolved N. Ireland government. There are two Irelands at present, the North and the South. You seek to mislead. You probably know the Mossad motto: “By way of deception, thou shalt do war.”
Nine Turkish men on board Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times. Fulkan Dogan was shot five times from less than 45cm away in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back.
Barbaric. No respect for human life.
Israel with its huge nuclear capability portends the most extreme threat that terrorism poses. Sanctions must be drawn up against this terrorist state
If we take Michael Patek at face value, then what we have is something even worst than a militant Zionist, namely a Christian Zionist, who believes and longs for the “rapture” of Armageddon, which can only occur once all the World’s Jews are in Israel.
I say at face value, because I suspect that what we really have here is just another nasty little racist Islamophobe.
Michael Petek
St Paul, not content with cancelling the Law of the Torah, like you who were trying to cancel international law, proceeded to preach the perversion that Jesus, pbuh, was God’s son, which was a lie that as a Pharisee he very well knew to be a lie.
Like all the other Zionist trolls, you assume that the rest of the world will automatically swallow the lies which the Zionists knowingly present to the world.
My prophet, may God’s peace and mercy be upon him, is a true, noble, righteous prophet. You do not have permission to say otherwise, on this blog or anywhere else, without being challenged for that first lie.
As to the rights and wrongs of the naval blockade of Gaza, you state that in the Middle East you have to be completely ruthless in order not to be destroyed. If any group of people resort to total ruthlessness, they have by definition already destroyed themselves. Physical survival at the expense of moral death is a pretty strong concept in all religions.
That’s how Zionism is viewed by the world, as a stinking moral corpse. When people like you describe international law as nothing more than someone’s rule, the danger of infection spreads across the whole globe. Fortunately most people can see that these are the words of Satan and they protect themselves from their influence by condemning them utterly, as I do.
Israel is locked into its apartheid mental illness, which I saw when I went there, and it is Israel which is being contained in isolation, and being observed from the safety of a locked cell door.
“Neil Barker, you say: “I pointed out that he isn’t a member of the Irish government. He isn’t”.
But he is a member of the devolved N. Ireland government. There are two Irelands at present, the North and the South. You seek to mislead. You probably know the Mossad motto: “By way of deception, thou shalt do war.”” – Doug
It was your quote that sought to mislead, giving the impression that McGuinness was speaking on behalf of the Irish government, who were angry because the incident involved an Irish-registered ship. Mc Guinness’s views aren’t relevant. Or maybe you simply didn’t realise that Ireland is a different country.
Mac, “If we take Michael Patek at face value, then what we have is something even worst than a militant Zionist, namely a Christian Zionist, who believes and longs for the “rapture” of Armageddon, which can only occur once all the World’s Jews are in Israel.”
This is indeed what Christian Zionism is about. The majority of them are in the US. Be scared because this is what these rich and powerful cranks are praying for.
Doug: I haven’t read every post in this thread, but I get the impression you’re right. This Patek freak is an armageddon evilgelical, who actually believes we should have massive amounts of slaughter – and welcomes it earnestly – so that when the pile of bodies gets sufficiently high, the Baybe Jaysus will be pleased enough, come slithering down the pile of corpses, and rapture the faithful to heaven.
The rich and powerful do indeed find these people useful idiots, because they’ll go along with _anything_ to get the old prophesies fulfilled, and turning over the currently occupied lands to the Israelis, killing all the Arabs if they won’t get out of the way quickly enough, is just part of it. Once the Temple Mount is built, and the Gog Magog wars done with (a lot of them – including Bush – thought that was what Iraq was about, and astounded Jacques Chirac when he confided the “fact”), we’re very near Rapture time. It doesn’t work out too well for the Jews in the long run, because every last one of them needs to be slaughtered unless they convert. But these Christianist freaks are willing to help the Israelis out at least up until that bit.
They’re useful because anything that looks like it might be a end-times event is Good News to them. More trouble in the West Bank? Wonderful! Another intifada? We might be getting closer! A war with Iraq, possibly Iran too? Oh, be still my beating heart! (Psst… vote republican, and you’re likely to get more middle-east wars! Bring on that old-time rapture!) For political support of the right wing and for the military, media, industrial complex, they’re invaluable.
There are more of these whack-jobs than you can shake a stick at in the midwest of America. Mainly because they’re isolated, don’t know any better, are surrounded by the equally delusional and hear this crap all day and night across the dial on their radios. It is surprising to come across them in this country, though.
“There are more of these whack-jobs than you can shake a stick at in the midwest of America.”
Glenn, you’re horribly ignorant. The criticism would be best leveled against Americans in the South, not the Midwest. If you knew anything about America, you would know that.
It’s quite telling when Brits talk about the Midwest, as if they know anything.
And coming from a country with government-funded primary schools dedicated to inculcating children in believing in an Abrahamic God, your blanket statements are absurd.
Plus, we need to keep in mind that you’re a 911 truther, which means that you’re a member of a failed religion.
I’ve been following these events closely and it’s interesting to watch as it unfolded.
But the legal aspects of this have me intrigued.
Craig, knowing you’re pretty good with this side of things, what do you make of this:
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2010/06/a-modest-proposal-for-resolving-this-flotilla-business.html
During the UK election numerous posters in this blog advocated adopting PR.
Given the current events are an outcome of Israel’s election system which uses full PR, not mixed, you may find the following alternative analyses by a Palestinian instructive as well as relevant to the current situation.
Please see
http://jamescaspell.blogspot.com/2009/02/israeli-elections-significant-step.html
An earlier article by the same author very much relevant to the current situation is called Our South Africa Moment Has Arrived and available at
http://palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=14921