I don’t think that I have seen anything like the widespread criminality sweeping England, in my lifetime. It may happen in LA or the Paris bainlieus, but not England. Watching it from the sanity of Scotland enhances the feeling of it happening somewhere I don’t know.
It is necessary to be plain about one thing. This is not, in any sense, a legitimate political protest. Nor is it a revolt of the deprived, homeless and starving. Few of those arrested are coming to the attention of the police for a first time. What is happening is that the burgeoning criminal underclass is realising that it is now large enough to defy society if it can concentrate its forces quickly in specific localities.
This is not a race issue. This is the social mileu from which Jade Goody, Amy Winehouse and Wayne Rooney (all of whom have had close associations with people imprisoned for violence) emerged just as much as it is gangs of Somalis and Nigerians – and it is indeed that too. It is a product of a contemptible urban sub-culture driven by a detestation of education and an avid materialism. That its devotees can argue that the corrupt bankers and politicians are morally no better is a perfectly valid point, but no justification.
They are not destroying the homes and livelihoods of politicians and bankers, but of ordinary decent people.
The policing does raise vital questions. The Met has 30,000 officers. Tonight it will have 16,000 out on the street, including reinforcement from elsewhere. Why on earth did it only have 6,000 out last night across the whole of London, when everyone knew what would happen? And why then did they simply watch looters? Senior officers had decreed that the “containment” tactics used to control political demonstrations should be used here. What arrant nonsense. You don’t just cordon off areas in which looters are allowed to loot.
There are root problems in society which have caused this, but the immediate cause is impunity. The criminally minded witnessed that they could loot what they wanted, while the police would merely stand and watch. As a result, more and more joined in and the situation has gone from bad to worse. One thing which has been under-reported is the amount of personal violence that has been used, with people mugged in the streets, cab and bus drivers attacked and people stoned as they ran from burning flats.
I have no problem at all with calling for the deployment of baton rounds, tear gas and water cannon. If nobody has been burnt to death so far, it is a miracle. If the odd looter gets killed by the police by accident by a baton round, I would view that as very sad but something they brought upon themselves. I would not bring in the army at the moment, but the force of society should be brought to bear by the immediate enlistment of any volunteer with no criminal record as a temporary special constable. They should look to enlist tens of thousands.
The resources of civilisation are not exhausted.
If the sole response to these riots can be more repression, than the IOC should seriously look at moving or cancelling the Olympics.
To assume that the upward trend of tution fees, the lack of EMA money and the increasing failure of Osborne’s plans have nothign to do with the overall feeling of society is living in isolation.
If the Government want to run a peacefull Olypmpics, they best start getting some serious apprenticeship schemes going, I’m sure SONY will see the positve points behind such a strategy.
Nobody should expect this to be all over now. For example, yesterdays provocative policing in areas that saw no riots, in canning Town, police en masse, one officer shown ‘moving on’ a by prodding him with his baton, again and again, what was going on in this policemans mind?
Its not possible to keep the peace with a force that is hated for its duplicity, the argument that comes up again and again and it does not wash anymore. If the police is not subject to the law then we will see more of these actions, killing people is illegal and should be prosecuted, examples set, whether you are a public servant or a member of the public.
The establ;ishment notion of some being better than others for their standing, so often reflected by our law benders and their soldiers, thats what has got them off their charges in the past, complicity by a self serving establishment, with or without the help of working class members. Next years Olympics are in the hands of those who failed to police in the past, does that fill anybody with confidence?
Today its tank buster training, just seen a couple fly their low level attack routines. yesterday was high altitude flying, could hardly hear them through the low level clouds, but they must have flown above 15.000, it was faint.
Arthur Itis has supported my suggestion along with OldMark’s. I do not support OldMark’s racial analysis of these riots. What I know of the EDL is that they are violent, provocative racist white young males and include plenty of football hooligans.
OldMark, who I can’t be bothered to address, suggested that I had made up EDL vigilantes from my ‘puerile imagination’. I posted a link to a piece revealing that the EDL were organising groups of vigilantes. End.
‘I posted a link to a piece revealing that the EDL were organising groups of vigilantes’.
The link doesn’t verify, or support your contention, that the anti-looter vigilantes on the streets of Eltham & Enfield last night were EDL activists- as anyone with basic comprehension skills can work out.End.
Oh no, the Sally Army had better watch out the New Moral Army is about to march!
‘What I know of the EDL is that they are violent, provocative racist white young males and include plenty of football hooligans.’
I only agree in part with that description Clark, but, FWIW, I would support a ban on the proposed EDL march thru Tower Hamlets in the current, volatile climate.
EDL Vigilantes in Eltham Video
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The EDL have responded to the riots and looting by calling upon members in some locations to prepare to defend their neighbourhoods, homes and families. More information will be posted here this evening. The video below shows EDL vigilantes on the streets of Eltham who will make sure that the looters don’t trash their community.
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http://durotrigan.blogspot.com/2011/08/edl-vigilantes-in-eltham-video.html
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“A far-right wing political party have claimed that they took to the streets of Eltham to “guide” the residents because the police were “unable to control the streets.”
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8692872/London-riots-far-right-political-party-protect-Eltham-residents.html
OldMark, I’m always careful because I don’t trust the corporate media. However, I’ve seen the EDL on YouTube. Their main theme seems to be anti-Muslim. I therefore oppose any EDL march, in any climate, volatile or not, and especially through areas of high Muslim population.
So Technicolour, the black kids on the Lewisham bound 321 bus, who made provocative gestures to the white kids, who then threw stones, were returning fron bible classes eh ?
The text of the Telegraph article BTW merely verifies that the EDL are attempting to join a bandwagon- not that they instigated anything. Your comprehension skills are again a bit lacking.
You obviously haven’t twigged from my earlier posting, when I left links to the much more violent events in Woolwich the night before (and which received less attention from the Telegraph than the playground spat you link to), that I live in this area. I know full well that there is one pub off the High Street frequented by EDL types- and I avoid it like the plague. The idea however that these guys could ‘orchestrate’ the very minor disturbances in SE9 last night is laughable.
If Suhahl is reading this, he may like to know that I’ve personally directed Japanese tourists to the marble slab in Well Hall Road erected in memory of Stephen Lawrence. I wonder when he’ll get a similar opportunity to direct tourists to a marble slab built into the pavement close to the spot in Glasgow where Kris Donald was abducted, then beaten, & murdered ?
Old Mark, I could take you to that spot, or I could take you to the spot where my wife’s pal was raped and strangled to death, or to where Arthur Thomson Junior was gunned-down, or to where a man’s body was discovered, probably murdered by the Triads, or to where last year an old lady was murdered in her flat, or to where a popular, middle-aged radio DJ was stabbed and killed by her family’s friend…
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There are many such spots. Glasgow is the ‘murder capital’ of the UK.
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No slabs anywhere, for black, white or yellow, except in the boneyard.
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For its statuary, I would recommend the Eastern Necropolis. It used to a grove where, in the time before St Kentigern (Mungo), child sacrifice was thought to have been practised by the Celtic High Priests. The blood used to run into the burn. Fertility cult, see.
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Gosh, these riots have given the Far Right their second orgasm in as many weeks: first, their ‘wondrous hero-crusader’, the smiling, Nordic archetype, Breivik and now, across Mata Inglistan, Land of the Raven, this ‘creative destruction’! Golly gosh. What an opportunity to get in on the act! How will the racist Far Right cope with this double climax?
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Ah! What blissful pornography, in the mind of the Fourth Reich!
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One thought, one heartbeat, one song.
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Watch out for the blackshirts-under-the-beds! And on the web.
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A love-song, perchance, amidst the slabs and blood and soil: ‘All Roads Lead to the Vauxhall’.
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Aye.
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Kris Donald’s mother told Nick Griffin to fuck off back to where he came from and not to use her son’s death as any sort of political capital.
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See, here in Scotland, Old Mark, we’re not interested in the Fourth Reich. It’s just another ‘Raven’ delusion. We have Golden Eagles aplenty.
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But if ever Glasgow does take to fire, with most of the most deprived areas in Western Europe within its city boundaries and the worst stats in Western Europe for most parameters, one suspects that it would make the English stuff look like a tea-party.
‘No slabs anywhere, for black, white or yellow, except in the boneyard.’
My point exactly. I can see Suhahl that my drawing attention to how the authorities in Glasgow wish to deal with the Kris Donald murder (ie forget it ever happened & ‘move on’) with how the PTB in London deal with the Stephen Lawrence murder (memorialisation in marble), has clearly hit a nerve with you. The red mist has descended, and you make insinuations about my wanting to establish a fourth Reich ! Pathetic stuff.
There have been quite a few murders in south London over the years as well Suhahl, in case you hadn’t noticed. I could take you to the offie in Kennington that used to be owned by the brother of one of the Great Train robbers, until he was gunned down by a guy on a scooter outside his home around the corner. Or the pub in Woolwich where thirty years an old school friend of mine was was stabbed to death. We can both recite our lists of atrocious crimes with which we are personally acquainted… not that that’ll achieve anything.
Madeleine McCann’s case got the most publicity of all. Lots of reasons for that, too. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown has written in the Independent about the McCann case, as had Craig Murray on this site, comparing it with the lack of publicity in cases in which other children (inc. black and brown ones) have gone missing. The MSM is after copy which sells bigtime. The Kriss Donald case was solved quickly and efficiently, with the help of the community, the police, the politicians and so on. One Glsgow MP went to Pakistan to help ensure the extradition process of the suspects who had fled there. They were convicted to racially-motivated murder, and rightly so. There was no attempt to seek apologia. No-one has forgotten about it. Communities worked very hard, unsung, unreported, before, dring and since. I know this from personal contacts. Kriss Donald’s mother told Nick Griffin to go back to where he came from and not make political capital out of her son’s murder. The BNP was utterly shameless, descending like vultures.
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You see, Old Mark, you are exhibiting two features, it seems to me:
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1) The MSM, based in London, tend to report what happens within a 100-mile radius of the capital as though it were international news but tends relaively-speaking to be less keen on reporting to the same extent on events from places as far away as Scoland.
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2) I have made the points about the Donald murer before recently on this site, yet you continually bring up the Lawrence murder as though you have a special bugbear wrt this case. The Lawrence murder became a cause celebre because:
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a) No-one has been convitecd of the murder.
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b) Ongoing systemic problems within the Metropolitan Police were identified as the MacPherson report confirmed. These problems contributed significantly to the fact that no-one has been convicted of the murder.
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Hence, possibly, the marble plaque to which you so intensely and persistently object. One wonders exactly why you might object.
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You – like Alfred before you – seem to put forward what ound, at first reading to be ‘reasonable’ arguments, all the while enying allegiance to the BNP/EDL et al. Yet – again, as with Alfred – just about all of the argumentation you have advanbced since starting to contribute to this website has been in line with the policies and views piut forward by the Far Right in general and those organisations in particular.
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I think this is disingenuous. I much prefer the openly Far Right views of someone like ‘Jamie’ (who made some posts on a previous thread, with a sun symbol as their monicker). I would much rather someone come out and say: “I support the BNP nd/or EDL”. But of course then they would have zero credibility, wouldn;t they? And everyone knows this. So, Old Mark, a simple question:
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If there were a general election, or a by-election, tomorrow, and the BNP/EDL were standing, would you vote for them? A simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ would suffice. Thank you.
Suhahl- my answer to your question is ‘no’.
And I don’t object to the marble slab put there in memory- I just resent the fact that the unsolved Lawrence murder has become such a cause celebre, and that by remaining unsolved, it gave birth to the tendentious rubbish extruded in the MacPherson Report, which you so revere.
More on that report here FYI-
http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_2_otbie-racism.html
Thank you, Old Mark, for responding. And may I ask why you would not vote for the BNP/EDL? Is it because you fundamentally disagree with their core ideologies and find these ideologies abhorrent and absurd, or because you agree with their core ideologies but think they that are ineffective political vehicles for these ideologies? Thank you, again.
Suhahl- my view is that it is possible to critique the tenets of multiculturalism (as expressed, for instance, in the MacPherson Report) without at the same time subscribing to the ideology expressed by the BNP or Anders Brevik. You, evidently, believe otherwise- hence your line of questioning.
No, Old Mark, I do not believe otherwise. It is possible to critique anything. But I simply asked you this:
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“And may I ask why you would not vote for the BNP/EDL? Is it because you fundamentally disagree with their core ideologies and find these ideologies abhorrent and absurd, or because you agree with their core ideologies but think they that are ineffective political vehicles for these ideologies?”
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You did not render a direct answer, Old Mark.
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I would wager that 99% of the bloggers here would have no difficulty in providing a direct answer to that question if it were posed to them.
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Any chance of a direct answer from you?
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Thank you.
@ arthur Itis
“No, it’s that old Bavarian Alts Heimer.”
LOL…..oh I forgot about him 😉
YES I do think Switzerland is a good model to follow!!!
IMHO The solution to stopping the riots is easy.
CALL AN AMNESTY!!
Announce independent investigations into ALL police custody deaths ,with maximum sentences to follow.It was police brutality and corruption that sparked these riots.
Announce a stopping of bank bailouts and illegal wars and the start of independent investigations into bank and political fraud ,conspiracy,war crimes and blackmail.With maximum sentences to follow.It is obvious from the mass demonstrations that this is the peoples will
Announce a direct democracy constitution and hold a vote on the austerity measures(Iceland style,they even arrested thier Prime Minister for financial fraud) We could ALL be debt free tomorrow,its our politions,aka elected dictators, that sell us as debtor slaves!
The debt is ODIOUS ,the taxpayer has no reason to pay for it!!
In international law, odious debt is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable. Such debts are, thus, considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt
ITS THE BANKS AND THE UK REGIMES DEBT NOT OURS!!
I would also disband the standing army, which just invades other peoples countries and steals thier resourses for big business, all paid for by the taxpayer!!!It makes us LESS SAFE and costs a fortune,in this time of global terrorism and austerity measures!
A milita army is much cheaper and unbeatable compared to a standing army.Its why Switzerland was never invaded and why Stalingrad wipped out hitlers finest.MILITA ARMIES KICK ASS!!(but they are useless at invading other peoples countries)
But of course none of this will happen. David “Fawlty” Cameron will continue to blame criminal youths ,immigrants and anarchists and continue to give the brutal police more brutal powers and start cencorship of the REAL FREE PRESS(the internet)and claiming this is democracy!! and will continue his humanitarian wars spreading mindless mayhem and death.
The rioters have not killed or beheaded anyone yet! I cannot say the same about David Cameron and those he supports!!
Another thing…..
These “riots” all seem very convenient for the police ,MSM and the Cameron government.
LAST WEEK WE WHERE ALL READING ABOUT MURDOCHS MSM ,CAMERONS CABINET AND THE METROPOLITAIN POLICE FORCE IN COLLUSION ,COMMITTING CONSPIRACY ,TREASON ,BLACKMAIL ,EXTORSION ,MURDER!! Of course murdoch MSM spun on about celebraties phones or something just as irrelevant!!
TODAY the police are getting shoot to kill powers , maybe they need to do some “house keeping” to stop more beans being spilt!
the Cameron governemt is getting the population behind them and using youths ,anarchists and immigrants as a scapegoat to point fingers at!!The rest of the world sees oppression and police brutality as the cause!
And now the MSM has something to print that takes our mind off thier treason and illegalities
But it could all be coincidence just like Sean Hare deciding to commit suicide just after all his claims are proven true and he anounces there is a lot more to disclose!…and of course the Met Police did not find this suspiscious!?!?!?!? I wonder why?
THIS ALL SEEMS VERY CONVENIENTLY TIMED FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT