The two British men executed by US drone attacks in Pakistan were not killed in combat. They were assassinated while going about normal life. This is a most barbarous practice, which amounts not just to execution without trial, but to inaccurate execution killing many who were never accused in the first place.
Being British does not make these particular victims more important than the thousands of others – including numerous women and children – that the US has assassinated in this way. But it does give the British government a standing to protest. Sadly there is no chance that the neo-cons in power will do anything about it. If there was one area where you might have expected the Lib-Dem presence in government to give it a slightly more liberal tinge, it was foreign affairs. In fact, there has been no evidence of that whatsoever.
‘We meet at Lincoln station, near RAF Waddington, an airfield where next year drones will be controlled for the first time from British soil. Currently, the appropriately-named Reapers, with their all-seeing cameras and cargoes of bombs and missiles, are flown by an RAF unit based in Nevada. The smaller time difference between Britain and Afghanistan is intended, John says, to make their operators less prone to tiredness and killing civilians.’
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/17/helen-john-greenham-protester-drones
It is hardly true that “they were assassinated while going about normal life”. Is it normal life to break a control order, leave the UK for Pakistan using someone else’s passport and associate with militant groups in Pakistan’s tribal areas?
Four more young Pakistani men have been arrested by the W Midlands police. Operation Pitsford! Notice the repetition of the numbers and eight in this short report. Giving emphasis of course. They are the baddies. We are the goodies. We kill by remote control. “Collecting money for terrorism”. Tut tut. They should have used one of those red poppy collecting tins that carry the flag for our state’s terrorism.
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Four Birmingham men face terrorism
Four held after anti-terror raids
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Four men from Birmingham have been charged with terrorism offences.
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Khobaib Hussain, Ishaaq Hussain and Shahid Kasam Khan – all aged 19 – and Naweed Mahmood Ali, 24, are due before Westminster Magistrates’ Court later.
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They are accused of collecting money for terrorism, travelling to Pakistan for terrorism training and travelling abroad to commit acts of terrorism.
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The men were arrested in the Sparkhill area of Birmingham on Tuesday, West Midlands Police said.
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They have been charged with engaging in conduct in preparation of terrorist acts contrary to section 5(1) of the Terrorism Act 2006, a force spokesman said.
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A West Midlands Police spokesman said: “These charges are in connection with Operation Pitsford, a major counter terrorism investigation that has already seen eight people charged and appear in court.”
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A force spokesman said eight other people had already been charged in connection with the investigation.
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Seven of those are currently on remand after appearing in court
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15798572
Hi,
Once we had judicial reviews and basic principals that even the worst of right-wing toryism didn’t try attacking for the sake of the show of basic rights and british principals, then it all came out in the open, and our lessons learned from Northern Ireland and centuries of colonialism were forgotten/discarded, infected by way of an ignorant prime minister and representatives in love with the mythology of America, while surrounded by Zionist neocons, importing the “expertise” of those successful bastions of diminishing terrorism, the zionists, needing us to adopt their ways to justify their own thugish uncivilised criminality.
A poison that will infect us for a generation at least while our moral compass continues to be lost and we use the cruelty of other regimes to justify more death and colonialism while removing the most basic vestiges of democracy from our own lands.
Modern western liberal intervention!
Yours kindly,
MN
Julian’s turn today. Where is Sandy?
@Julian
Julian is here again but not supporting the oppressive Israeli regime today, now you are supporting killing people without a trial. Your moral compass is ass backwards.
Agreed Craig but wasn’t that just the point of your recent Fox,Werrity,Gould piece?
As in,who is really controlling British foreign affairs?
Not the LibDems,that’s for sure.
What’s the collective noun for sockpuppets?
Julian
Control orders are nothing but indefinite arrest without trial, of the sort dictatorships in Burma practice.
And yes, it is going about normal business to try and escape such imprisonment without trial.
In the past people who escaped from those dictatorships to the UK were given asylum.
And that is exactly what the brothers did. But unlike the dictatorships that only practice execution without trial in their home countries. The UK and its American masters carry out executions without trial outside of their own borders at Israels bidding.
I blame the end of the Cold War. Everyone’s minds were then focussed clearly on the possible consequences of (a) “pre-emptive” actions in (b) someone else’s sovereign territory, and while assassinations did take place (with Israel showing us all how to do it: think Count Bernadotte, the consensus was that they were not a good idea. Now all that has changed and pre-emption is written into the script. It’s dirty war, as I am sure even a neocon would agree if you were to present 9/11 to him as an instance.
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Some may have missed the imminent transfer of the UK’s drone pilots back from the US to RAF Waddington, from where they hope the reduced time delay between a secure little room in a peaceful democracy and the wingless game birds in Baluchistan will permit more accuracy in targeting the latter.
Jives
A stench of sockpuppets?
What Craig seems to know but I don’t is whether or not these people were in a militant base which was being used for attacks against NATO troops? If they were then differnt conclusions may be reached. That is why questions are being asked in Parliament.
SDtephen, count the numerous wedding parties that got hit and then reasses your own comment. If there is one innocent civilian killed in this unregulated warfare nobody dares to have discussed in any international forum, just as the abandond space treaty talks, then this surely cannot be a justified means?
Is it fair to hit a mother and child because of ther proximity to someone who looks like a terrotrist from 4000ft. above?
I regard RAF Waddington as a legitamite target for the Taliban, without any declaration of war or warning.
“A stench of sockpuppets”
Lol..yep that’s a good ‘un Craig.
I had considered perhaps a fistful of sockpuppets…
“I regard RAF Waddington as a legitamite target for the Taliban, without any declaration of war or warning.”
The taliban always did, Ingo.
“The two British men executed by US drone attacks in Pakistan were not killed in combat. They were assassinated while going about normal life.”
But what was their “normal life”, Craig?
Surveillance micro-drones will be rolled out across the UK during 2012 having completed trials in Liverpool.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055650/Lost-sea-Farce-13k-police-drone-vanished-crashing-Mersey.html
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They are easily jammed by the Mk1 MD-Dronejammer, a dual 2.4 Ghz navigation and control wideband noise jammer and a GPS Global Positioning System (GPS/NAVSTAR) L1 frequency of 1575.42 MHz EW Device. It is portable, runs on 12v and produces up to 10W RF power from a separate water-cooled RF amplifier.
well done Mark…:) So the whole devic e would fit in a handbag then. So we can expect the metal thiefs who have delayed some 22.000 comuters last year to get their comeuppance, or are these just used to crash on demonstrators, there seems to be a problem with storing of enough power.
Once again, this solution might solve all our energy problems, if the vested interest let it happen. This is just down your street Mark. Sorry for double posting mods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghhgUmGBjX8
Ingo
If they were at a wedding party then you would have a point – but, apart from Craig, we don’t know what they were doing. I’m surprised that the Taliban haven’t told anyone yet if they were innocent civilians.
What were they were doing in Waziristan? I would not be surprised if those young men were up to no good, and therefore came to a bad end. Hopefully other young men will learn a lesson, and concentrate on becoming good citizens.
I read in the Daily Mail that David Cameron may be descended from Moses.
“I read in the Daily Mail that David Cameron may be descended from Moses.”
Which one? Ed?
The sad asses on here supporting murdering people without trial is disgusting. Studies into drone attacks have concluded that the Americans have killed hundreds of innocent civilians. To support killing people who are not in a battle and without judicial process is the lowest of the low and gives us a picture of the contemptible moral character of the posters.
Ken
These extra judicial murders, are far worse than the Pinochet murders of Chileans, or El Salvador murder squad killings. The inaccuracy of the targeting systems, as per the author of the software who is busy taking legal action in courts. As well the inaccuracies of the weapons systems compounded with the said targeting systems errors have caused many civilian casualties.
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However, for the blood thirsty bastards whom would shit themselves if someone so much as farted loudly in their proximity, somehow find it easy to call for further carnage; it is good to be the king so far as these inadequate bastards are concerned. Then there are the ziofuckwits, whom verily believe goyem that is you and I are animals in the shape of human beings, and these are busy fighting the “good war” with their keyboards, to facilitate the genocide of all Muslims.
I don’t believe for a moment that the RAF unit based in Nevada are moving to RAF Waddington so that the drone operators will be less prone to tiredness because of the time difference between Nevada and Afghanistan. They have to work nights, so what? And I certainly don’t believe this will reduce the death toll of civilians. The RAF is there (Nevada) being trained to use these killing machines. Now that they have been trained they are coming home so that we can use our own drones, manufactured by BAE systems, back in Blighty.
“What Craig seems to know but I don’t is whether or not these people were in a militant base which was being used for attacks against NATO troops? If they were then differnt conclusions may be reached. That is why questions are being asked in Parliament.”
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this would appear to be a targeted assassination, rather in the method that was used to murder a 16yo pakistani boy recently who had been protesting against drone attacks. it seems that some target vehicles are being primed with trackers that the drones then target. so i suspect the UK was directly involved in these assassinations of the british citizens.
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it should be noted that of the near 2000 killed by drones only 20 have been positively identified as being militants.
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it is estimated that the % of militants being killed by these drones is around 5%.
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the drone operators now decide on their targets based on behavioural patterns .. that is computer models .. regardless of the fact that the computer models are unable to differentiate between militants and normal life.
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since the removal of raymond davies (cia spy) and part of his network (some so called taliban groups as well as cia/blackwater-xe and dyncorp mercenaries) that was assisted by husain haqqani (asif zardari) (Pak ambassador to US) – an estimated 7000 cia operatives were allowed to enter pakistan without the normal security checks .. the number of suicide attacks / destabilisation operations / death squad activity has reduced but not eliminated.
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husain haqqani currently is embroiled in a political scandal inside of pakistan.
“What were they were doing in Waziristan? I would not be surprised if those young men were up to no good, and therefore came to a bad end. Hopefully other young men will learn a lesson, and concentrate on becoming good citizens.”
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you will find that the majority of pakistanis in the uk have their roots in that region.
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regardless of what they might have been doing one has to recognise that this fact alone means that many pakistanis here in the uk have family / friends who are directly on the frontline of the neo con war that is currently against pakistan.
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that is we are at war against the families of british citizens.
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why would you not get a backlash/blowback and radicalisation as a result of our neo con war ?
““The two British men executed by US drone attacks in Pakistan were not killed in combat. They were assassinated while going about normal life.”
But what was their “normal life”, Craig?”
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regardless of their normal life .. they were in pakistan and so out of our jurisdiction and that of the US. drone assassinations are illegal under international law, not that any law means anything in the case of the UK and US.
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if the UK had issues they could seek it via the pakistan government.
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if they had been acting illegally then they would of course have been under the watch of the Pakistan authorities.
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so far no one has been able to provide any solid evidence of their criminal activity in pakistan.
What’s the collective noun for sockpuppets?
A “NATO” or a “Cabinet” of sockpuppets?
So far as I can gather the targets of most of these drone attacks are mobile phones: if a mobile phone number has been linked to another phone, believed to be used by “militants”, the phone is attacked. And everyone close by is killed. Then there are those, such as the two 16 year-olds who had attended a jirga in Islamabad, whose cars have had homing devices slipped into them. In such cases agents select targets, and the drone operators aim at them.
It really isn’t very different, perhaps more precise, than the old method of employing death squads to go into villages and carry out wholesale massacres. In South America, Africa and Asia literally, tens of millions have been killed as the imperialists have tried to kill every critic they could safely dispose of.
The Drone campaign is just business as usual: a disgusting business to be sure but all of a piece with what we are lucky and callous enough to call the Cold War which- stick a pin in the map and choose a country in Asia or Latin America- involved the random killing of millions living close to vague targets, such as members of the PKI, stroppy peasants in Minandoa or Afro-Colombians “squatting” on lands narco-fascists envied.
As to those making excuses for these inhuman policies, one simply hopes that they are paid trolls.
Wendy
Although quoting my question you noticeably have failed to answer it.
“you will find that the majority of pakistanis in the uk have their roots in that region” (i.e Waziristan)
Given that is blatantly not true – perhaps you should double check some of your other statements too.
So the drones fly from the US, and are going to fly from the UK? I had assumed they flew from ships or US bases nearby. If they’re flying from the US?UK they must overfly a lot of other countries – do none of them object?