Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22278

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The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?

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22,278 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis”

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  • Katie

    In haste:

    Tim. Have you forgotten two tandems,one junior one adult ?

    Mochyn, you’ve only forgotten the most obvious country…. Iraq !

  • James

    “We are looking for unbalanced people – capable of extreme violence…..

    …People who have access to weapons; hunters, collectors, shooting club members, some of whom could have had psychiatric problems”

    When we find one, he added, we can blame them for the shootings !

  • James

    “The car slammed into the bank at the rear of the lay-by where the axle became stuck”

    A. The tyres had collected mud around the tyre walls. Therefore had “dug in” whilst in reverse, the bank stopping further progress backwards.

    B. To be “stuck” would suggest the vehicle was trying to move forwards. The vehicle was said to be “in reverse gear”. Therfore “halted” would be a better description.

    The BMW cannot be said to be “stuck”, given the statements by police at the start of their investigation.

  • bluebird

    The world is so smalk.

    While i was searching realations between Kevin Kellens, iraq, dion longworth and arab politucs i had to run into wolfowitz, now head of the world bank whose right arm was kellems there.

    Wilfowitz girlfriend is another member of the world bank, shaha riza.
    That would not be so interesting if she would not have studied and lived in London Putney from 1970- 1985.

    More interesting, however, is her father Khalid Walid al Gargani.
    He is the right hand world security instructor of King al Saud. He is the ambassador of the Arab League. He is the ambassador delegate of the Arab League to the holy See in Vatican.

    His daughter is the girlfriend of wolfowitz.

    Al Garagani is Libyan. His father mohammad was a “terror” leader to free libya from italian imperialism in pre WW2 and the family became famous and reknown amongst arab people. In 1950 the al Garaganis had to flee to Syria where they also became reknown politicians.

    The main goal of the al Garaganis was to come into power in Libya and Syria again. Al Gargani was in an Arab League delegation opposing Gaddafi and Assad closely before the war and seeking a UNO ruling for war support.

    And his daughter is the girlfriend of Wolfowitz ……

    What did Gaddafi say shortly before the war? “there is no arab league any more. They are traitors to the arab idea”.

    The world is small and the destiny in this world is being ruled by few people who make war and organise assassination for the purpose of controlling money and people. Those who oppose their interest will be killed by their organisations who control politics, private military such as blackwater, plus the national security services. They control and bribe them all, including the media to report only what they want to report, to fake the truth, to betray the people and to brainwash the stupid with their propaganda.

    SAH and most likely Dion, too, where supposingly heroes who did unfortunately fight agains windmills and had to pay their prize.

    I prefer to be 1984-Winston rather than to accept them brainwashing me with their constructed lies.

    Sorry if that had been a bit off topic perhaps … NoT!

  • bluebird

    To continue ” the world is small”

    Walid al Garagani has just a few linkedin contact. One of those is a manager at … AREVA/Alstom

    The world is so small …

    http://eg.linkedin.com/pub/walid-gargani/28/122/a6

    His contact:

    http://ae.linkedin.com/pub/benaouda-ayad/8/993/994?trk=pub-pbmap

    Our world is small …. Or is it just because only a few people rule our world! How is Le Cercle doing? Everything fine in Vatikan? Nice tea, Baronesse Neville Jones? Good sex with Shaha, Wolfowitz?

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    Bluebird. I want to test an idea using your computer/brain [if you don’t mind], and see what comes out:

    It’s a safe bet that Israel and their supporters don’t like Petraeus, because he told Congress on 16 January 2010 that Israel’s actions threatens the lives of American servicemen and women . Come on! You are simply not allowed to say that! Not when Israel is around and hold so much power in….Congress.

    But Israel’s supporters are far too smart to be involved directly [in the ousting of Petraeus]. If you make it an axium that Israel took the initiative to oust him, how does that fit into your findings? Which person close to Petraeus could have connections to members of The Israel lobby?

  • Shelock H.

    BB: re the world is small

    … so we’ve just learned, EM is “working” in Italy too?!
    (if he’s “working” at all – or just waiting the 10 years to be over)

    That !!reminds me!! of the guy you were looking at several weeks ago. Don’t remember his name- but seems to be a cute one 😉 as there was a pic of him shown.
    Sure, you know who I mean.

    May be you should go back again – may be you can now link him (better) to the acutal state of play??
    Respect to your abilities….

  • Tim V

    bb 11.53 “Natural gas or a leaked gas pipeline perhaps could cause such damage. Gas bottles: never.”

    try this one!!!

  • Shelock H.

    It’s this guy:
    Pietro Malandrucco, who worked with SAH at Elekta ….
    (discussion here on CM around october, 5th)

  • Tim V

    Olifant
    17 Nov, 2012 – 12:44 am This appears pure supposition to me. The problem with it is that if the location of the Al Hilli’s in such a remote spot was known by trailing the car, it would have had to have passed the builders at about 2.40 and they claim no one did. Next problem if Al Hilli’s arrived at lay by at about 2.50 we have to account for a delay of over half an hour until the shooting. It is just not feasible that the killers would have followed, then hung around for 40 mins. before starting shooting. If Mollier, why shoot him and not shoot Martin? Both were witnesses of the killers. Would not Mollier more likely have retreated fast if as an innocent he had come across a shooting? The blood stains and Zainab’s testimony clearly indicate all three were outside together. Therefore this hypothesis that Mollier arrives AFTER the shooting clearly does not fit.
    Generally, I believe that a process of elimination of hypotheses will lead us inevitably to the only viable one.

  • James

    What did SAH see, if SAH was the target ?

    Remember, “nuke” smugglers tend not to get shot.
    And it’s pointless killing for someones money, if it’s in a bank.

    The biggest thing in aviation is “pilotless planes” (yuk !).
    Everyone heard of “Drones” by Boeing.
    Then there’s the X 47 B again by Boeing.
    But the cute stuff is “cargo airliners”. (Pax get scared !).

    Of course the ability to have an unmanned Boeing or Airbus has been around for awhile.
    I doubt it will make it to civil use though. (Pax get scared !).
    They have always said it’ll be cargo airliners, at night, over unpopulated (or less populated areas).

    Wonder if SAH saw it ? It has been out for sometime !

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    You all need to read John J. Mearsheimer‘s piece from 16 November in The London review of Books:

    A Pillar Built on Sand


    In response to a recent upsurge in tit for tat strikes between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza, Israel decided to ratchet up the violence even further by assassinating Hamas’s military chief, Ahmad Jabari. Hamas, which had been playing a minor role in these exchanges and even appears to have been interested in working out a long-term ceasefire, predictably responded by launching hundreds of rockets into Israel, a few even landing near Tel Aviv. Not surprisingly, the Israelis have threatened a wider conflict, to include a possible invasion of Gaza to topple Hamas and eliminate the rocket threat.

    There is some chance that Operation ‘Pillar of Defence’, as the Israelis are calling their current campaign, might become a full-scale war. But even if it does, it will not put an end to Israel’s troubles in Gaza. After all, Israel launched a devastating war against Hamas in the winter of 2008-9 – Operation Cast Lead – and Hamas is still in power and still firing rockets at Israel. In the summer of 2006 Israel went to war against Hizbullah in order to eliminate its missiles and weaken its political position in Lebanon. That offensive failed as well: Hizbullah has far more missiles today than it had in 2006 and its influence in Lebanon is arguably greater than it was in 2006. Pillar of Defence is likely to share a similar fate.

    Israel can use force against Hamas in three distinct ways. First, it can try to cripple the organisation by assassinating its leaders, as it did when it killed Jabari two days ago. Decapitation will not work, however, because there is no shortage of subordinates to replace the dead leaders, and sometimes the new ones are more capable and dangerous than their predecessors. The Israelis found this out in Lebanon in 1992 when they assassinated Hizbullah’s leader, Abbas Musawi, only to find that his replacement, Hassan Nasrallah, was an even more formidable adversary.

    Second, the Israelis can invade Gaza and take it over. The IDF could do this fairly easily, topple Hamas and put an end to the rocket fire from Gaza. But they would then have to occupy Gaza for years to come, since if they left Hamas would come back to power, the rocket attacks would resume, and Israel would be back where it started.

    An occupation of Gaza would trigger bitter and bloody resistance, as the Israelis learned in southern Lebanon between 1982 and 2000. After 18 years of occupation they conceded defeat and withdrew all their forces. This experience is the reason the IDF did not try to invade and conquer southern Lebanon in 2006 or Gaza in 2008-9. Nothing has changed since then to make a full-scale invasion of Gaza a viable alternative today. Occupying Gaza would also place another 1.5 million Palestinians under formal Israel control, thereby worsening the so-called ‘demographic threat’. Ariel Sharon withdrew Israeli settlers from Gaza in 2005 to reduce the number of Palestinians living under the Israeli flag; going back now would be a huge strategic reversal.

    The final, preferred option is aerial bombardment with aircraft, artillery, missiles, mortars and rockets. The problem, however, is that the strategy does not work as advertised. Israel used it against Hizbullah in 2006 and Hamas in 2008-9, but both groups are still in power and armed to the teeth with rockets and missiles. It is hard to believe that any serious defence analyst in Israel thinks another campaign of sustained bombardment against Gaza will topple Hamas and end the rocket fire permanently.

    So what is going on here? At the most basic level, Israel’s actions in Gaza are inextricably bound up with its efforts to create a Greater Israel that stretches from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. Despite the endless palaver about a two-state solution, the Palestinians are not going to get their own state, not least because the Netanyahu government is firmly opposed to it. The prime minister and his political allies are deeply committed to making the Occupied Territories a permanent part of Israel. To pull this off, the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza will be forced to live in impoverished enclaves similar to the Bantustans in white-ruled South Africa. Israeli Jews understand this quite well: a recent survey found that 58 per cent of them believe Israel already practises apartheid against the Palestinians.

    Creating a Greater Israel will produce even bigger problems, however. In addition to doing enormous damage to Israel’s reputation around the world, the quest for a Greater Israel will not break the will of the Palestinians. They remain adamantly opposed not only to the Occupation, but also to the idea of living in an apartheid state. They will continue to resist Israel’s efforts to deny them self-determination. What is happening in Gaza is one dimension of that resistance. Another is Mahmoud Abbas’s plan to ask the UN General Assembly on 29 November to recognise Palestine as a non-member state. This move worries Israel’s leaders, because it could eventually allow the Palestinians to file charges against Israel before the International Criminal Court. Thus, the dream of a Greater Israel forces Tel Aviv to find ways to keep the Palestinians at bay.

    Israel’s leaders have a two-prong strategy for dealing with their Palestinian problem. First, they rely on the United States to provide diplomatic cover, especially in the United Nations. The key to keeping Washington on board is the Israel lobby, which pressures American leaders to side with Israel against the Palestinians and do hardly anything to stop the colonisation of the Occupied Territories.

    The second prong is Ze’ev Jabotinsky’s concept of the ‘Iron Wall’: an approach that in essence calls for beating the Palestinians into submission. Jabotinsky understood that the Palestinians would resist the Zionists’ efforts to colonise their land and subjugate them in the process. Nonetheless, he maintained that the Zionists, and eventually Israel, could punish the Palestinians so severely that they would recognise that further resistance was futile.

    Israel has employed this strategy since its founding in 1948, and both Cast Lead and Pillar of Defence are examples of it at work. In other words, Israel’s aim in bombing Gaza is not to topple Hamas or eliminate its rockets, both of which are unrealisable goals. Instead, the ongoing attacks in Gaza are part of a long-term strategy to coerce the Palestinians into giving up their pursuit of self-determination and submitting to Israeli rule in an apartheid state.

    Israel’s commitment to the Iron Wall is reflected in the fact that its leaders have said many times since Cast Lead ended in January 2009 that the IDF would eventually have to return to Gaza and inflict another beating on the Palestinians. The Israelis were under no illusion that the 2008-9 conflict had defanged Hamas. The only question for them was when the next punishment campaign would start.

    The timing of the present operation is easy to explain. For starters, President Obama has just won a second term despite Netanyahu’s transparent attempt to help Mitt Romney win the election. The prime minister’s mistake is likely to have hurt his personal relations with the president and might even threaten America’s ‘special relationship’ with Israel. A war in Gaza, however, is a good antidote for that problem, because Obama, who faces daunting economic and political challenges in the months ahead, has little choice but to back Israel to the hilt and blame the Palestinians.

    The Israeli prime minter faces an election of his own in January and as Mitchell Plitnick writes, ‘Netanyahu’s gambit of forming a joint ticket with the fascist Yisrael Beiteinu party has not yielded anything close to the polling results he had hoped for.’ A war over Gaza not only allows Netanyahu to show how tough he is when Israel’s security is at stake, but it is also likely to have a ‘rally round the flag’ effect, improving his chances of being re-elected.

    Nevertheless, Pillar of Defence will not achieve its ultimate goal of getting the Palestinians to abandon their pursuit of self-determination and accept living under the heel of the Israelis. That is simply not achievable; the Palestinians are never going to accept being consigned to a handful of enclaves in an apartheid state. Regrettably, that means Pillar of Defence is unlikely to be the last time Israel bombards Gaza.

    Over the long term, however, the bombing campaigns may come to an end, because it is not clear that Israel will be able to maintain itself as an apartheid state. As well as resistance from the Palestinians, Israel has to face the problem that world opinion is unlikely to back an apartheid state. Ehud Olmert said in November 2007, when he was prime minister, that if ‘the two-state solution collapses’ Israel will ‘face a South-African-style struggle’, and ‘as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is finished.’ One would think Israel’s leaders would appreciate where they are headed and allow the Palestinians to have a viable state of their own. But there is no sign that is happening; instead, Israel foolishly continues to rely on military campaigns like Pillar of Defence to break the Palestinians.

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    John J. Mearsheimer is special, and deserves special treatment whereever he goes, and whereever he breaks a monotome flow of comments, because his comments is so much clearer and insightful.

  • olifant

    just for ref re article copied above “ ‘Arab’ new information ” : web address = {http://translate.google.com.iq/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Findependencenews.net%2Fnews.php%3Faction%3Dview%26id%3D7129&anno=2}
    هكذا قتل سعدي الحلي وعائلته في فرنسا Thus killed Saadi al Hilli and his family in France

  • olifant

    some more “pure speculation”

    So many standpoints. France’s hunting rural madness and collectors weapons. France racism. Satellite / Nuclear race secrets for sale. Secret advanced weaponry. Iran v West spy warfare. Iraqi oil for food programme. Iraq subverted by Iranian deceit. etc etc

    And now another angle – Current Iraqi elite as allies of Iran. Would al Hilli have attempted bribing al Maliki over this? Would someone still have the discs and the nerve to publish them? After the Tuerie de Chevaline?
    {http://translate.google.com.iq/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aklamkom.com%2Fvb%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D49652}

    07-09-2012, 11:13 PM [this seems to be a Sunni Iraqi weblog / rant against the Shia led Maliki governemt?]
    Forum: Pen political dialogue “> pen political dialogue
    Beyond Filter Saad ornaments physically in Paris with his family

    In the process of intelligence carried out by the Iraqi government by sending elements of the band’s gold for assassinations and run by al-Maliki personally had this group the assassination organization through weapons with silencers targeted one Iraqi businessmen in France and named Saad al Hilli with his wife and two daughters have carried out the assassination of the victim in a suburb Vrenceccant Filter al Hilli physically came as a result of retaining drafts electronic notary where relationship Maliki government with the Organization of Iran (PMOI) and use in many processes of physical liquidation of many of the Iraqi leaders and Iraqi competencies was al Hilli had threatened al-Maliki in an encrypted message that will be announced and published these tablets of the means media if not paid Maliki government financial amount of two billion U.S. dollars has been expressed al Hilli before his death to one close to him that he owns the disks and documents no less important than discs that were conceived way demolition and shrine bombing Ali al-Hadi peace be upon him and this is what raised the ire of the owner and his party and push them to liquidate Iraqi businessman Saad al Hilli in Paris with his family even disappear with him all secrets is expected that there will be a third party entered the line issue a vague personal so far he has not issued any statement or news about these discs so far has been in the accounts of al-Maliki said Do not remove these tablets at this critical period that Maliki wants to renew for a third term, which can be for these tablets that break the back of al-Maliki and infuriatingly media

  • James

    Yeh, we can all go home Straw.

    Without one question like…

    Why is there mud on the roof of the car ?
    What happened to the roof rack ?
    Was the car stuck on the bank as in trying to drive forward ??
    Who were the witnesses (the two women) ?
    Who are Mr Martin’s accountants ?
    Where did Mr Al Hilli work as a contractor pre SSTL ?
    How was it Mr Mollier was off for 3 years on paternity leave ?

    And others.

    We should ask this of the French police pointing out “the public” are affraid to go to France due to the fact they claim there is a nutter wandering their countryside ????

    And that the French police operate a “code of silence”, which worries many people !!!!

    COMPLETE FAIRYTALE.

  • Q

    @Bluebird: Not off topic at all. I’m glad you noticed, because Kellems’ name seems to lead to scandals, controversy, or missile attacks. Famously, he used his saliva to tidy Wolfowitz’s hair, which implies a certain closeness to the subject.

  • Q

    @Bluebird: Of course you noticed that Kellems started out in journalism, then turned to managing news from the other side.

  • straw44berry

    Well James I certainly dont think its safe to go to the Annecy area now with a deranged gunman on the loose and I think there should be a Government health warning for those thinking of going to France.
    Perhaps we should draft our own travel warning of the Dangers of Holidaying in France.

    This could be your family crying over your death:-
    http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?num=10&hl=en&biw=1046&bih=611&tbm=isch&tbnid=0MH9nHa1n77FVM:&imgrefurl=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57508088/official-family-feud-suspected-in-brutal-murder-of-4-in-french-alps/&docid=Z-rIUTNAoPI9CM&imgurl=http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/09/07/french_alps_murders_151435652_fullwidth_620x350.jpg&w=620&h=350&ei=28-nUNbAKeLK0QWL_oGIBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=706&vpy=116&dur=3023&hovh=169&hovw=299&tx=115&ty=189&sig=112673049740154760789&page=1&tbnh=135&tbnw=251&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0,i:102

  • Q

    @James: For all we know, SAH could have held secrets about drone technology, cloaking, or non-nuclear weapons, such as the laser the US navy used in a demonstration to down an aircraft. Satellites could tie into this. Would someone want him dead if he was in on new weapons technology, maybe lasers, or satellite lasers? It’s weapons technology that gets people killed, don’t you think?

    Maybe SAH had the inside track on 9/11. That’s another thing that gets people killed.

  • James

    Well Straw..

    I think it is sometimes good to force someones hand, so on my days off, I will look into this endeavour.

    I should put letter together for the authorities (including the French) to update their travel information for the region of Annecy (Savoie and the Rhone-Alpes region) due to the specific fact that they currently have a serial killer at large who is targeting holiday makers (men, women AND children).

    This as confirmed by the French police.

  • James

    I would like to push the idea of a “serial killer at large” in the French Rhone-Alpes area…and suggest we gather names of who to contact. (media and authorities). That’ll f*ck em.

    And now for the other news (Bluebird will like this)….

  • straw44berry

    Q

    For all those things that SAH could have knowledge of, he wouldnt be the only 1 with that knowledge. He seemed to flit between companies and must work in a team at each place. Why were they happy for him to perhaps take his ideas to competitors?
    If he were that brilliant at something they would reward him enough to keep him there.
    If he is a problem solver I could see him being shared around. But also be attractive to a foreign entity to solve their particular problem.

  • Tim V

    A point I made some weeks ago James 17 Nov, 2012 – 9:55 am. Given the high profile nature of this killing, such inaccurate semantics cannot be accidental.

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