The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Those are the two links. the first one has a lot of names helpful for knowing about who is who.
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profiles/category/individuals
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/zionist_organization_of_america
Tim V
It would seem Mollier couldn’t make the call…as there would be no service in the carpark.
I say that as Martin (it would seem) couldn’t get a signal, hence he ask Didierjean….who appears to have “gone down” to get a signal.
Where as Geraldine Chain had to go from the police barrier, to Chevaline to get a signal to file her story.
A carpark full of “Journo’s”. I wonder if they got a signal ?
Mind you, with the kit they must have brought for O/B’s, you could have contacted the moon from there !
@Tim
Thats all I have seen that might explain the phone call from BM so I thought it was worth mentioning, I don’t own a mobile phone and have no idea how they work thats why I am curious about this radionet thing ,do you know how that works did the emergency services just overhear a police report and respond or who alerts them the person taking this supposed 3.48 call?
BM
*And as you were on your way back there, the rescue services started arriving?
-Yea, the, er, they’re called the Pompiers, which is a fire rescue services . They were the first peple to come past up the hill. There was I think three of their vehicles, followed by SAMU who’s like a fire, sorry an ambulance service, and then following them were a couple of gendarme vehicles.
*Straight up to the scene?
-They went – the thing that I wasn’t able to sort of hail them down because they were ..as fast as they could go with all their sirens blaring. And I found out subsequently talking to the French Police, that on that or their radio net they knew there had been some murderous activity going on and in spite of that very high risk, they went straight to the rescue scene, so if anybody’s a hero in this event, then I think the fire and rescue services are the boys to be praised.”
Pink
The only think I can help you out with is that as WBM is ex RAF, the term “the net” would be widely used. (and “coms”).
It’s a military way of saying “they/I heard it over the radio”.
@James
To me it implies that whoever alerted the services knew what had happened so that first call must have been quite specific can we rule out they are talking about the PD call which came later?
“that on that or their radio net they knew there had been some murderous activity going on “
Interesting time lines.
I am trying to workout “who” arrived at the scene..and when.
Note the arrival (confirmed by Geraldine Chain) of the Institute of Criminal Research of the National Gendarmerie (the IRCGN) and the National Institute of Forensic Science (INPS) in Ecully, Lyon (less than two hours away…and with far more qualified).
That’s odd in itself.
( http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2012/09/07/tuerie-de-chevaline-l-enquete-au-jour-le-jour_1757246_3224.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DIRCGN%2Bchevaline%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26rlz%3D1W1ADFA_esES480%26biw%3D922%26bih%3D431&sa=X&ei=HyG1UI30Is_ltQak_oH4Cg&ved=0CDIQ7gEwAA )
@NR: Washington State seems a likely portal for goods from Asia. Does anyone know the location of the elderly folks’ home(s) in Washington State? Does the military run cargo flights routinely from McChord AFB to Asia, and if so where in Asia?
Pink…
In answer to that question, “No”.
We can’t rule out that the “net” was alive with the emergency BEFORE the “3.48pm” call is made.
Nor can we say it was the 3.48pm call that then went out across the “net” either.
It’s hard to workout “who” he is talking about. The police ? He was refering to “speaking to the French police”, it isn’t impossible that other units would pick messages incoming and outgoing from the scene.
Like everything in this case, one fact contradicts another.
And neither fact is clear to start with
Pink
27 Nov, 2012 – 7:53 pm that’s a very good quote to refresh our memory. It reinforces the point I keep making. The emergency services were alerted by someone other than Martin and Didierjean and had been given sufficient information to respond in significant force – not one but six first response vehicles. Then we have conflicting statements – on the one hand that they all went past without stopping or speaking and Martin and Didierjean continued on their way by car and bike. The other that they were taken to be interviewed at the police station for six hours. So little detail from six hours interrogation!
An aside concerning lack of blood spatter at crime scene. Shots to the head from close range cause blood spatter, and more. This seems to indicate two things to me: the victims were already dead before the shootings, or they weren’t there to begin with. This would require determinination of the last time they were seen alive at close range by someone who knew them well enough to know who they were. Photos of them on a camera, or long distance sitings by strangers don’t count.
Please carry on.
@Sys: Actually, it’s Craig’s house and we’re all guests.
@Sys: I agree that there is a bigger picture in all this. As to world background news:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/fp/Mark+Carney+named+next+head+Bank+England/7615071/story.html
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/mark-carneys-successor-may-need-to-hike-rates-oecd-says-in-forecast/article5718470/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/11/21/pol-ceta-canada-europe-trade-list.html
Resources, metals, minerals, diamonds, currency? World Bank?
From 2008, a story about the FBI interviews with Saddam Hussein:
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/january/piro012808
The problem with timing: Biggest problem is when BM did arrive?
Timing of the first phone call not the problem. BM met PD (PD says they met shortly before 4pm) and BM asked him to make a phone call “in my, quoted, bad French I was trying rather urgently to get across the point that that there had been a very very bad event up at the car park, and did they have a phone that had a signal? (eyebrows raised, asking), and therefore could they phone the rescue services? (head tilted up, demanding), which they did (nods up and down)” “…which they did.” Then they went up to the car park. Would not BM have continued downhill to where there was a signal, as was his initial plan, to ring for help if PD hadn’t been willing to ring. Clearly PD also rang after he too had come down from the lay by a few minutes later. First call by PD (?brief / sketchy) on BM’s request (BM tells us of this call). Second call by PD (PD tells us of this call) The journalist (not PD’s words) who said that that call was the first may have misunderstood the sequence. Having told PD of the urgency what else could BM do if he did not want to look inconsistent. BM story is consistent with PD’s
The problem arises as to when BM arrived. Not that he was / was not there at 3.48pm. But the extra half hour that he says he took to get there. Usuaully out one or two hours. Left at 2.30pm. Took one and half hours to the place where he saw vehicle coming down. EM early on said it took half hour to go up to lay by. BM said this twice – from Chevaline to Martinet. So if he was there for 3.48 then add time for checks he made when up there.(5min) Add time to go on up after seeing the vehicle coming down. (10min) Add time to go down to meet PD (1-2 min) Time of meeting vehicle = 3.31pm By his own account this is about one hour from home – not one and a half. From what he said – 90 mins after 2.30pm – means he reached Martinet at 4.10pm Way after PD first saw him emerge all panicky. Why the added half hour. Clearly he got there before before 4pm. Smokescreen to obscure that he took one hour – or maybe less? He says he saw the vehicle coming past him. But if he got there earlier might he have seen them at an earlier stage. If he arrived earlier what did he see? Where was he? If SAH went up shortly after passing Fillion-Robert around or before 3pm then SM could have gone up shortly after that. SM reaches Martinet 15 mintes later ~ 3.05 – 3.15. BM follows SM a minute or two later. (assuming the bit about following SM is correct) BM reaches Martinet at 3.22 – 3.32pm. Been cyclcing for one hour, not one and half.
I still think any phone call to the authorities about the Chevaline massacre could have come from those who were monitoring the assets via asset protection vest(s), which are often worn under body armor. Any significant change in pulse rate, blood pressure or breathing would have been sent via radio frequency to such overseers at a distance, who then could have sent for help. Let’s not forget also that mini-helicopter type drones use silent flight via lithium ion batteries. These, too, can be controlled remotely from a distance, and are equipped with live viewing cameras. They were used in Libya by rebel factions who were provided equipment from outside forces, FWIW.
Head shots would have made body armor useless, as SAH himself discussed with a neighbor, according to news reports.
It’s helpful to know that shirtless FBI agent Frederick W. Humphries was up to date on his head-shot skills.
@ Bluebird
Thanks for the link to the long story about supposed CIA agent Carnaby’s alleged assassination by the Houston police. Many interesting names and theories in that, but we must take it with many gains of salt. It has a heavy disinformation component operating on one side or the other.
As far as I could determine, the story is written by rightist patriots exposing Mossad ops, but they are not the type of rightist patriots who support Israel for religious reasons, like agent Humpheries.
On the other side are people claiming Caranaby 1: Never was a CIA agent at all 2: Was nutz and committed suicide by cop 3: Was only a contractor who helped the CIA (or just an informer) 4: Worked at one time for the CIA but was retired at the time of his death.
Then there are persons who claim they knew him at the CIA, but whose credibility is questionable, such as, “Xxxxxx’s postings about his fake CIA background first appeared on the web in January 2007. WMR has learned that Xxxxxx was fired as a FedEX driver for stealing I-Pods, has restraining orders against him by his ex-wife and a porn movie star he knew, and lives at home with his parents.”
That reminds me of the loon, XXXX XXXX, involved in the framing / narking of Bradley Manning, who created a bizarre on-line persona for himself, claiming connections to the FBI & CIA, plus many Internet security organizations, and that he controlled a network of 600 volunteer American patriots who monitored every US person’s Internet, looking for “evil”. He also claimed expertise in dentistry and anesthetics for small animals.
Yet he was good enough to trick even Forbes magazine, which quickly put online his story regarding Manning, giving it credibility. If they’d bothered to glance at his web page it was apparent how absurd the story was.
Others who investigated later, found he had many interlocking companies cross-controlled by 2 low level friends, and some of the companies were registered at his mom’s house, though don’t know if he lived there. He was 50 some years old, probably single or divorced, and fat, ’cause at that time he’d just suffered a massive heart attack and his friends were taking care of him. He was living on disability payments, but managed to travel to Las Vegas to make his headline news, by standing up from the floor of a convention and telling his story.
So with the Internet we have marginal figures, probably with mental illness, who quickly concoct their elaborate fables for free, and because the security agencies can’t confirm or deny who they have relationships with, get away with whatever fibs they say.
The other parts of the Carnaby story regarding polonium sound suspect, though I don’t know enough about that to say it’s outright lies. The part about having to refrigerate 99% pure polonium, the good stuff, that doesn’t deteriorate, is odd. Are all weapons containing that stuff kept cold? From what I read, it sounded like you drilled a hole in the core and put some beryllium rod or chain in as one method to keep it safe.
I dont know if this will help or confuse more but Max at MZT has been playing with the timeline for ages and this is an animation he did “IF THE KILLER” was the motorbike stopped by ONF ,he has based it on who saw what ,ONF didnt see BM but they did see the motorbike etc ,he gets BM arriving at 15.43.
He has been testing out everyone as the murderer this is the last one I saw ,he has said he needs more data he is working with what he has got ,this one was to test the motorbike.
I think it does help to show where various people were in relationship to each other which I found quite useful.
http://makeagif.com/i/wA1P9X
URGENT CORRECTION: In the comment above about Carnaby, I said Polonium when I meant Plutonium! I would make a very bad bomb designer, mixing up vital ingredients like that.
@NR: Cryogenics are a key part of the nuclear equation, and getting some press attention in relation to detectors. Interestingly, a certain lab in Washington state is mentioned here:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18789-nuclear-security-push-bleeding-cryogenic-science-dry.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest_National_Laboratory
Cryonics or cryopreservation is a whole other story, often discussed in the same breath as Walt Disney.
About the Mastros:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jayadkisson/2011/10/01/the-washington-woes-of-michael-mastro-and-friends/
Yes, NR, it looks like “trunk sales” might have been their only option.
@BB: Medina is next to Bellevue, Washington, former home of Frederick W. Humphries.
http://bellevue.patch.com/articles/fugitive-medina-resident-michael-mastro-captured-in-france?goback=.gmr_3694878
Thanks James for the input if there is chatter before the first call then that moves into a whole new area which you are all covering very well and I know nothing about so I will stick with my plod to figure out the lay-by ,not tonight though I have another early start and must get some sleep,its amazing how long searching takes especially with rural phone lines if I ever move I am going to move to that fastest BB area I can find 🙂 Night all .
NR
Carnaby focused my attention because he was Lebanese. The reason why i did find him was because i was searching close connections to the Jordan al Irsan family in the Houston area. That is when i found Carnaby.
He was not a young guy. Usually guys his age dont tell weird stories. I am quite convinced that he was an agent.
What impressed me on that 2008 story was the fact about Patraeus opposing the Iran war. That makes a lot of sense from todays point of view.
Close to the Jordan roots al Irsan family there were 3 assassinations in Conroe/Houston:
In 1999 the Arab husband of the eldest daughter.
In 2012 the Iranian best girl friend of the youngest daughter
In 2012 the American political blogger boyfriend of the youngest daughter.
And Carnaby in 2008?
@Straw44berry: That’s very interesting. Windows blown out, but glass not breaking? Only certain windows actually broke. Also, how did the attic insulation blow downward into the ground floor rooms, if this was supposed to be an explosion from the side (lateral)?
These sonic booms “shook” windows:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/9503248/Exploding-meteor-creates-sonic-boom-over-Wales.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_ihwKfUJhg
These sonic booms broke windows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_sonic_boom_tests
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d67_1341321977
http://www.cbc.ca/player/Digital+Archives/CBC+Programs/Television/The+National/ID/1434906081/?sort=MostPopular
Gas explosions pick and choose which windows to break?
@ Q : Thanks for the cryogenics links. That is used for detectors to catch movement of nuclear materials. I still can’t find anything about why Mossad needed to chill 99% pure Plutonium to sneak it out of Houston. There may be some obscure reason.
In the Carnaby story I liked the suggestion that false flag operations follow an occult double naming scheme, like New York, New York. So to be safe we just stay away from Mexico City, Mexico; Jersey City, New Jersey; and Quebec City, Quebec.
A good test that nothing suggested at either CM or MZT is any threat to major powers, is that we’ve not been visited by the true loon disinformation agents. No one claiming they sent a pic or a vid to their friend, a high-level expert at Nortel Networks, and he analyzed them using secret software not available to the public and testifies they are not fakes (when to normal eyes or even one eye they obviously are.
Or even better was the man who had a vid of the Loch Ness Monster and claimed he’d sent it to the division of the US Navy that specializes in sea monsters and they verified it is not faked. To whom do we send our pics of BigFoot & Sasquatch for verification.
@NR: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/3334/title/Cold_War_Conductor_Ultracold_plutonium_compound_shows_no_resistance
I don’t know what they’re up to, but maybe it involves superconductors.
Windows are not recommended in areas that are prone to gas explosions:
http://www.gexcon.com/handbook/GEXHBchap10.htm
Surely the injury toll would have been much higher in Indianapolis if this were a gas explosion.
Did anyone in Indianapolis mention a “hot wave”? I can’t find anything.
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_32-killed-in-two-gas-explosions-in-china_1768962
@Q 9:18PM – you raise a point I haven’t seen discussed yet. The idea that if there was an “extraction” then there is no reason to believe it didn’t happen at some time much sooner. After all, if body “doubles” were used, all they needed was the car, the occupants and Zainab and Zeena willing to play a little game to give it all credibility. With this scenario, SM may have been shot for real as he came upon the scene prematurely, whereas WBM was clearly part of the clean-up/support crew, and may have been panicked by the unplanned kill;. Or, SM was “disappeared” as well – and a body double substituted, hence the need to keep any photos of him away from the public, just in case someone – say from the emergency people might say – hey – that’s not who we found!
How much earlier? well, like you said – that would depend on the last time the family was actually sighted – say in the camp. Alas, we don’t get to do our own interrogations, do we?
The other point in favor of such a scheme is that it now kind of makes sense for all of it to happen in France as there would be no likelihood of relatives/friends dropping in for identification or mucking around. Really, the only people who could vouch for the Al-Hillis would be those who saw them from one or both the camp sites and there was no mention made of any such campers being asked for help identifying anybody, for example the kids – whom they may well recognize.
Yet another point in favor is that the bodies picked to serve as doubles would allow much leeway – after all it was stated that some (one? two?) of the bodies could not be identified, presumably due to disfiguring head shots. If SAH was one of the ones difficult to identify, his being the ONLY picture we saw anywhere, that would make sense. But I don’t think we received information who was difficult to identify other than the grandmother. And people have already pointed out aplenty that two bullets to the forehead would not make enough of a “mess” to preclude identification. This point has never been satisfactorily settled here or anywhere else that I saw.
For extra measure, the passports that were found in the driver side well – again – make sense – they could be deliberately dropped there to ascertain a “positive” ID by the searchers.
Finally the one point that everyone keeps bringing up: the lack of photos of Iqbal, Suhaila and the two daughters. Or Sylvain for that matter. That perhaps is the strongest element suggestive of something other than what meets the eye in all this. This absence of anything at all has also never been explained – one or even two without picture but an entire family (minus SAH again)? no school pictures? nothing at all on SM and a complete vale of secrecy – even from his sons Leo and Mathis who sure were not shy putting up familial pictures on their social pages?
If a prior extraction is how it was done, the timing of the 3:48PM call would not be so mysterious any longer as the “killers” could have made the call, not really being killers (or not entirely if they killed “only” SM). The timing for calls the shots fired and WBM’s arrival time would have all been carefully selected, but perhaps the drive-up by PD and friends messed up the timeline some? so they had to scramble which kind of “ruined” their carefully laid plan (for support on that, I imagined a scenario where there was no PD arrival, in which case WBM could have just conveniently biked down and away just before the emergency vehicles started to go up the road)
I admit to being somewhat partial to this scenario because it means people could still be alive – hence some prejudice – which I try to subtract but not perfectly. That being said yes, that leaves the issues of the many people involved in the aftermath – the emergency people, the hospital and the morgue. Perhaps however, there may not need to be quite so many in the loop that actually need to be sworn to secrecy – for example with 4 absolutely dead, no doctors/health workers would be required, just the basic forensics on the scene, maybe a pathologist + helper (who could arranged to be a key “inside” person). The need for those few “insiders” would however sit rather well with the long delay until the arrival of the “right” team from wherever. So this scheme may explain the bizarre 8 hour delay till midnight.
So here’s to Tim V – I know you delivered some serious knock-out to this option before. But could you revisit in light of the possibility that the Al-Hillis were not in the BMW that arrived at the martinet so there was “only” a need to establish the “mise-en-scene” , including the placement of the ‘spare bodies” and the live kids. Yes, I know it’s crazy to presuppose Zainab could be agree to be deliberately shot in the shoulder and beaten unconscious but what do we really know about her actual condition? just what they told us – and her condition went from “dead” to “critically injured” to released from the hospital barely a week later. Who knows, maybe there even was a plan for a proper “dead Zainab” but it didn’t work out for some reason so they had to resort to a “Plan B” with the ‘real” Zainab. I did BTW build me a little matrix to allow counting the “impossibles” that go with each scenario (no it’s not on a prettified excel sheet) and I keep coming back to the fact that an “extraction” scenario could be constructed that violates the fewest number of the “knowns”, while providing rationale for the many changes and inconsistencies and even some of the “known unknowns” we’ve seen in the story lines we were fed over time. Fine except for that one big drawback of opening some new cans of worms regarding the aftermath cover-up. Too bad there has been such clamp-down on information from the hospital, the forensics and the morgue(s), or someone would have said something that would allow dismissing this possibility entirely or strengthening it. Darn – why don’t they cooperate some?
Oh well….
My biggest issue is…
…if BM said he saw SAH pass him, the reporter “would of had to ask” about the BMW.
He could say, he didn’t pay much attention to it…or discribe it.
And there he may have mentioned the “possible” roof box !