The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
James
you hit the nail! That’s exactly how those money transfer agencies like Western Union and that 155 Notting Hill Gate company work. Like the Templars. Don’t laugh, but in our case we aren’t very far from the Templars, most likely we are almost in the middle of their ancestor families …. (re: Saffariya, Frederick the Great …. all those conservative Christian Fredericks here in that game … – I mentioned Saffariya a month ago).
Tim V.
I totally agree with your summary. That is 100% my opinion, too. Thing is that some people knew about that (like Eva Rausing) but they died. I am sure that the Wallenberg family and their friend, the King, would know a LOT more. Wallenberg did pay LaRouche.
Katie:
Mobsters could be the killers. However, there must be is a bigger thing than just a mobster war.
Q:
Could well be that there was a drug war with Doyle versus the Russians. I don’t think that they are doing that professional assassination as a kind of kindergarten revenge only.
I will need some time for reading all the Quebec stuff and links you did submit.
Katie
29 Nov, 2012 – 9:53 am
Katie it seems you can’t write without personal invective. You border on being objectionable. I have concentrated on timing at the scene because it gives the lie to the official version and as the French authorities haven’t retracted or explained, indeed have stuck to an unsupportable story line, it incontrovertably points to misinformation. Misinformation points to complicity and/or cover-up. Once that has been proved, everything they say about the event must be treated with the greatest caution. Believe it or not, the devil is in the detail. It doesn’t necessarily say what did happen but it certainly can show what didn’t.
What particularly croessed my mind when I read the Doyle article was that paragraph:
‘From what our Spanish colleagues have told us, this was a professional Russian hit. There were 13 shots and we don’t think they wasted a bullet. It has a military-trained assassin written all over it, possibly ex-special forces,’ a senior detective told The Observer. ‘The intelligence coming back from the Costa del Sol is that Paddy Doyle crossed the Russian mafia, which is something you do there at your peril.’
However, the French foolishly try to tell us that the al Hilli family assassination wasn’t a professional hit because he shot too many bullets and therefore that could be the lunatic tourist hater only, that very guy who is waiting in toilets and in lonely forests for innocent tourist families: Lord Voldemort!
One more for the Quebec corruption inquiry reading list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Porter_%28Canada%29
Ties to security and intelligence, an arms dealer, Iran, money-wiring, etc.
Tim V
It is a pointless use of time trying to explain to Kookie why you (and I) are interested in “timings”.
She thinks it “helps” find the killer, rather than show a “conspiracy”.
I don’t read Kookie’s posts. When I do, I can not believe how crazy her theories are (or lack of knowledge).
Hey ho. It’s a “public forum”.
Another character from the cast in the Quebec corruption inquiry, by way of Arthur T. Porter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ari_Ben-Menashe
BlueBird
The Knights were the first “international” bankers.
Seen off by the French I recall ! Well “suddenly” that’s for sure.
All you need is a “lump” of cash…and the same with your network.
You can trade anything then.
The cash is afterall “not real” in that business.
It is “oil”. Just smoothing the workings of things.
For instance, if I wanted to trade X amount of arms for Y amount of drugs, the transaction is merely “a swap”.
But to trade with someone you don’t know ! That’s crazy.
The “bond” is the cash. Like a latter day “escrow” account
….of course you could do C.O.D. but that would be mad.
That’s just for the movies.
Spies spying on spies, who works for whom, etc. in the Arthur Porter case:
http://titanprotectiongroup.com/blog/tags/tag/drarthur-porter
FYI.
Did anyone ever come up with a straight call on Kadhim and Hashim ?
What was Kadhim ? 91 before he passed on ? What about his bro ?
Did he passs the family business to one of his sons ?
Dubaishire was a busy time some years back. Lots of “Lebo” money around when I was in the sandpit.
I think the answer is in the money.
I have previously listed the various theories to explain the killings promoted by the French Prosecutor that not only show vassilation but are generally regarded as being unviable or unlikely. Some of these they have updated or corrected and may be explained by a progressing investigation, such as the number of cartridges found, or scientific results such as Mollier being shot first. There are others that are not so easily explained.
The “first call by Martin” perhaps the most notable. Then there was the announcement to television cameras that Zainab was dead when Maillaud MUST have known she was alive and would survive. How can the announcement that the green 4×4 Martin stated passed him, could conceivably be a traced Forestry vehicle? Apart from any supporting evidence, it is just not believeable that an official vehicle could have been on scene exactly at the time of the murders without seeing anything and take weeks to identify itself.
Similar doubt must surround the statement that the suspicious Peugeot 305 driver had been identified and eliminated, again with no substance.
Then there is the claim that the tyre marks were made by the BMW rather than another (the killer’s?) vehicle. The official line is clearly proved impossible by geometry. Why would crime experts promote such an impossible line?
There is the claim that Mollier was hit and injured by Al Hilli’s impossible manoeuvre. This MUST be a false story. What was the injury? What part of the BMW is supposed to have struck him? How was it supposed to happen? Martin claimed Mollier was in front of the car and he moved the body to protect it (!) (also very dubious) but by no account was Mollier at the rear of the car, the only viable location if he were to be struck by a reversing car. As I have pointed out before, Mollier was undoubtedly lying BY THE SIDE OF THE CAR from the blood stains, though the blood stains fifteen metres off have never been adequately explained.
Similarly making a press release that a photo proved the Al Hilli’s were miles away only fifteen minutes before shots rang out that we must presume were the fatal ones.
None of these suggestions can be put down to incompetence surely. If not they must be intentional misrepresentations.
*vacillation (sorry)
Tim V
Render medical attention to a person that has been shot (maybe) three times in the body…and twice in the head AFTER a 3km climb and possibly a longer cycle ride !!!!
What would his heart rate been?
The blood must have been everywhere.
NR 11.17 am
I knew Saad was a regular visitor to Spain I posted maybe 6 weeks ago:-
Amanda Lamble and daughter Isabella handed over a large bunch of flowers to police officers guarding the house. Ms Lamble said: ‘The children are the same age as my two daughters, we often drive down to Spain and we know Annecy and we felt that we needed to pay our respects.’
http://liveghana.tv/trending/iraq-born-saad-al-hilli-relatives-arrive-in-france-to-care-for-little-girls-orphaned-in-alps-massacre-as-police-turn-up-at-surrey-home-of-uncle-who-denies-role-in-shootings.html
http://www.lawsonware.com/directors.html
@James: Can we assume that the Hawala system is not easily audited by agencies and outsiders?
Q
I imagine it depends on how private it is conducted.
But like everything, it’s only a theory.
Maybe it was just cash Al Hilli wanted to get moved.
Hence why he came to the attention of the scammers (for the police to make an arrest, something must have been triggered by plod).
One thing I do know. People do kill for money !
James, Hashim al Hilli died early (I believe in the 1980tees). He was apparently tortured by Saddam’s knights due to his espionage. However, they didn’t kill him (what is quite exceptional in Iraq under Saddam when you are a spy). He even killed his sons in law for that reason. When Hashim apparently died in the 1980tees, then Kadhim was only about 60 years old when he died. Young enough for continuing his business. His son Ali was way too young at that time when he died and Ali moved to Australia, later. So there was only Kadhim who could run that business from Europe.
I believe the reason why Hashim was not killed by Saddam must have been some kind of deal with the family that they will do whatever he wants them to do. Such deals are a matter of honour in Arab countries. I believe that is the reason why they were apparently going to work for Saddam.
BlueBird
It couldn’t be “Mr Ali Hashim Al-Hilli” by any chance could it ?
The son that is. Moved in about 1970 ?
As in “Ali moved to Australia”.
It may have come up before, but check this out.
If you didn’t know it, it would sound like Sa’ad !
( http://www.aiforum.org.au/members.php?member=Mr%20Ali%20Hashim%20Al-Hilli )
@James: Our discussions here about possible al-Hilli assets are theories, but the Hawala system is definitely real.
I posted a link a couple of days ago about a mining company doing work in the Marange diamond fields of Zimbabwe, and dealings in Dubai via a broker who dealt in precious metals, etc., that went around the issue of transferring currency. It sounded very much like the Hawala system.
Small side fact: one of the principals in that story is a distant relative of the now-deceased scientist Lachlan Cranswick.
While we are in Quebec.
I studied Larouche’s history. There is a great documentation because he has famous ancestors. The thing with the Marcus family is BS. Perhaps his mother who was Jessie Weir, but his father is a Larouche and so is his grandfather and his grandgrandfather a Larouche. Only one generation before there is a “Gauthier dit Larouche”. “dit” means “called as”. Like Frederick Brun dit “Brindille”. That’s when the name of the famous Gauthier family had changed.
The Gauthiers settled in Canada as some of the first French settlers. They were always living in Quebec. Oh lala, Quebec again! They were part of a French Christian Jesuit sect. At some point in mid 1600 there was the first Gauthier called “Larouche”. “Gauthier DIT Larouche”. From about 1680, that family branch was furtheron called Larouche. That Larouche family branch of the Gauthiers moved from Quebec to New Hampshire and Massachusets somewhen between 1850 and 1880. The Gauthiers are still very famous in Canada and respected people, an they are also in Candian politics.
Here is one genealogy link about the first Gauthier who was called “Larouche”.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/gauthier/messages/3720.html
Thereafter, every family link up to Lyndon Larouch sr. is well documented in ancestry.com
There is also one General Gauthier (from another Gauthier family branch) who served in the French revolution and lateron battled in Russia and later battled in the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bernard_Gauthier_de_Murnan
And here we have a Gauthier from Tampa (the area where Lyndon Larouche is living). He looks like being a white collar criminal. (quote: it’s GOD’s money! – oh well …)
http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/12/15/32609.htm
Well, “our” Larouche has got quite some family history. And this guy is 90 years old. He doesn’t look that old, does he?
james,
yes, that Ali is his son. There are all family members inclusive DOB in this blog already listed (by bluebird). There is also a daughter Balsham Hashim al Hilli (Xanthis) who is married to George Xanthis a rich Greek shipping oligarch (not unlike Onassis).
Airbus A380 mentioned here, James:
http://www.avalonairport.com.au/corporate/doing-business-with-avalon/maintenance/
1998 coincides nicely with the bio. Seats and entertainment system noted.
Looks like it’s getting hit by job cuts.
http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/another-500-jobs-to-go-as-qantas-looks-to-close-maintenance-base-20121108-290xe.html
@BB: I don’t know if you noticed this name on the SIRC list, where Arthur T. Porter’s name appeared:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paule_Gauthier
With a link to Sweden.
Now we’re closing in.
Infact you could exchange one for the other !
No wonder the postie hadn’t seen him in “years” !!!!
A bit more for the timeline, I am ignoring the changing story this is just a bit to add to the timeline stats and according to this SM overtook BM at 15.15 pm which would be at the bottom of the hill if it takes BM 30 mins to ride up.
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/chevaline-les-gendarmes-ont-retrace-le-parcours-du-tueur_161559.html
Using google translate:
Everything went very quickly
At 15h15, the al-Hilli was taking pictures in a hamlet of the town of Doussard . At the same time, the British cyclist William Brett Martin, a former Royal Air Force, is doubled by another cyclist in the village of Horses: Sylvain Mollier.
“Thirty minutes later, at 15:45, at the top of the hill, the British will find his body, those of the Al-Hilli and the staggering girl collapses. He breaks contact with the car and the wheels spin from the emergency services at 15:48.”
@ Bluebird
“Q: Could well be that there was a drug war with Doyle versus the Russians. I don’t think that they are doing that professional assassination as a kind of kindergarten revenge only.”
Don’t doubt mass killings over trivial things. Some gangsta is insulted and he and his gang go take revenge at a family party killing target plus his relatives and friends including babies.
In New York, I think it was mafia John Gotti had neighbor killed because neighbour accidentally hit Gotti’s kid on bike.
@ straw44berry 29 Nov, 2012 – 4:51 pm
“NR 11.17 am I knew Saad was a regular visitor to Spain I posted maybe 6 weeks ago:-
Amanda Lamble and daughter Isabella handed over a large bunch of flowers to police officers guarding the house. Ms Lamble said: ‘The children are the same age as my two daughters, we often drive down to Spain and we know Annecy and we felt that we needed to pay our respects.’”
Somebody at MZT pointed out that the Muslim custom is not to leave flowers like that, so whoever did so was not likely a close family friend.
James 29 Nov, 2012 – 3:18 pm
“Q It’s the “kind of” way that the Knights Templar worked when the pilgrams went abroad and need cash.
They’d give him the money, and he’d give them a “letter”.
At the other side (and without being rolled for your cash) you present the letter…and someone else pays you that amount. It’s an effective way of “banking”. Built on a network. The network trusting each other.”
“Q : Can we assume that the Hawala system is not easily audited by agencies and outsiders?”
It is exactly the Templar or Hawala system that was uncovered after 9/11. I saw one such small scale operation go wrong. The money did not appear at the other end, and every day there were people coming into a shop, screaming [not in Arabic] and threatening murder. From what I overheard, it was the movement of the bulk money, the collective of the small amounts by various persons, that failed, precisely because the operator’s commercial bank’s rules had changed to combat this method.
It has to be the money !
Zaid when he went to the UK police, did he mention the Geneve account? It would be thought he didn’t.
However the cash was found.
The French say that the Germans (good at tracking money) are reported to have “found” these (this) transaction.
How true is this fact ? Did Zaid know of this account ?
It’s not a huge leap to think that since the FBI and CIA are following the money trail of terrorist groups, and since that includes the Hawala money transfer system, that they would need someone who speaks Arabic, and who has inside knowledge about these systems, to work on their behalf. They might even need to put up some seed money, or seed diamonds, or whatever, in order to track them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_transnational_anti-crime_and_anti-drug_activities#The_nexus_between_the_drug_industry_and_hawala
Enter Saad al-Hilli?
Q
I was going to ask…as I read your post.
Then I read the last line.
Answer. Could be !
Another question, was Hashim involved with the U.N. in the 50’s ?