The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Have you guys enlarged the photo you are talking about ?
I have recently Katie, the first time that photo was discussed I didnt know about CTRL + to enlarge until Kenneth pointed it out.
Its certainly helped here, without which Tim’s possible geiger counter theory wouldnt have emerged.
Well I have too Straw, I can clearly see their blue gloves but nothing in their hands.
The light coloured saddle shape is a piece of wood on the ground, the policeman in uniform is reaching out for the blue plastic as is the guy in white. Are we looking at the same photo ?
I have it to full screen size.
Anyway here is a better photo to zoom in on:-
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221659&page=72
Yass’s post no 1439
Hold down CTRL and tap the + key it enlarges to 500%
This link’s photo doesnt star so large but will again go to 500%
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shootings-pictures-of-bullet-riddled-1308571
Thanks Straw, I prefer to drag it to my screen & use the + sign to can get a larger size, yes that’s the same pic, the first one in the Mirror.
Good question Straw44berry
5 Dec, 2012 – 3:28 pm. I rather think people are hopeful the girls have fogotten everything. “Have to keep them away from those pesky relatives until we are sure they won’t be an ambarassment.” I hope to god someone is looking after them. And isn’t it about time there were questions in Parliament along the lines of: “Can the Prime Minister indicate what progress has been made by the joint British/French investigation into the deaths of two British citizens and others in area of Annecy on the 5th September 2012 and can he say when the two daughters caught up in these terrible events be returned to the Al Hilli family?”?
Katie, put your specs on!
You will clearly see from the positions and location of the SOCO and the police officer’s left hands that they are holding some objects. Their hands are not connecting with the tarp.
Hi all I was looking at that photo that Yass enlarged yesterday by coincidence and I wondered if he was checking a phone ,I did see it reported a long time ago that it was the police that opened the boot and that it was stuff from the car under the tarp, I don’t know how they could know that though as I don’t think any reporters would have got close enough to know .
Mochyn, I said reaching out to the ‘tarp’ not holding it, there is nothing in their hands.
Sorry to pour cold water over what it is you see, I’m saying what I see….blue gloves on hands stretching out towards the tarp,the policeman lefthand & the white chap you are calling SOCO lefthand. Fini.
Given Mollier’s nuclear industry connections (not to mention SAH’s) a radiation survey using Geiger counter would not be outlandish for the forensic guy. The ref i gave is an example that would fit the bill (small black hand held) As to the tarpaulin I discussed this previously. My guess was that as the bodies had presumably been removed prior to the photograph but bike and car yet to go, the blue tarp covered Mollier’s bike still in its original location. The brown “board” to which you refer is I think another tarp intended to wrap the bike. You will see the bike at front of the low loader is wrapped in a faun not a ble one. At least that’s my take on it.
Now a slight aside which I haven’t seen discussed – the fact that his bike lay on the ground. As a bike rider of a cheap bike, let alone a 5000 euro one, I wouldnt consider to lay it down flat in such a vunerable location for fear of scratches or other damage. He was definately shot and lay next to the passenger side. I have always thought it was rather strange he left it over there. Perhaps he propped it against the BMW when it was in a forward position, it falling when SAH reversed (unlikely)? Perhaps he just lay it there gently thinking it would be OK? Perhaps he was rather careless about his possessions? Perhaps speed was of an essense as he rushed over to SAH and Zainab standing next to the car? Perhaps someone has a better idea? WBM was convinced he got off not fell off the bike. If he had been shot near the bike it would be contaminated with his blood. No news on this at all. WBM said in his TV interview that SM was in front of the car. Graphics all show his body roughtly next to the bike front/right of car. Neither can be true. Even WBM gives the game away because he says after tending to both Zainab and Mollier he “Went around the other side of the car” where he allegedly smashed the window and turned off the engine? Why would he lie about the location of Mollier?
Katie, your comment is as stupid as you are blind.
You should’ve gone to specsavers!
Fini, indeed. Daft as a brush.
More importantly, CM is going to Baghdad on Sunday to speak in support of Palestinians, go to the home page and see his latest article, I wonder if he will have any chance to see what he can glean about the al Hilli case there? It’s a pity he hasn’t visited these pages and given any further insight from his unique position.
Straw, 3:28PM with regard to Tim V’s question on PD identity:
Bingo! I think you got this one.
I had to agree that the registration plate with BM 411 DM was downright spooky – way too much coincidence. My thoughts originally started drifting off to The Matrix (of which we are all part – my very own little conspiracy theory – just for fun). Then I thought of a movie I saw long time ago – it was a British one called “Blow Up” (great movie BTW to rewatch as one reads about this case. Same type of reality-bending, ambiguity-wrapped-in-fog quality, yet, yet….).
But this explains it: someone in the know sees hearse go by (in a photo) takes note of plate. Said someone in desperate need of inventing/improving cover-up story – at that time or later, when there was still hope they could make the 3:48PM call go away – maybe “wash” it off the news, or someone (BM – agency behind him) could be convinced to cooperate and admit to making the call first, which can then be ind of “shoved” under the carpet. Needing ideas badly and noting the “BM’ on the plate – lightning strikes: how about a ‘PD’ meeting ‘BM’ at 4:11? all that would be needed is to “inject” a PD and voila! timeline altered to [almost] satisfaction, and 3:48PM gets buried under gobbly-gook about fiest vs second calls (I think that’s called sh*t stirring – a well known technique for making ghoulash out of messy ingredients so that in the end there’s just soup and who cares what went into it?).
Alas, that BM refuses to cooperate – probably reflecting just what Tim V is saying – the agency behind him – the brits are royally pissed and let their dissatisfaction be known in code. In my goulash analogy – that’s akin to the deliberate disclosure of an unsavory ingredient – like chicken guts – maybe by a rival, jealous cook (BTW – no I am not one – a cook that is – though I take note of them that feed me well, and pay attention to their tales – something all of us who mastered the art of being fed by others would do well to heed).
Plus the 3;48PM just can’t be washed off for some reason. maybe it was in too many places. maybe some in the media have their own secret ways of not quite cooperating with instructions.
Also, to Tim V’s comment again – I think you are onto something there for sure and this conforms to my attempts to lay out the ‘agencies” rather well, adding a significant detail. it’s easy to see that the brits – ruthless agencies though they deploy, may have their red lines and killing an entire family would be viewed as crossing the line. Too heartless, and in their view – probably unnecessary.
I also doubt the french – ruthless in their way but bumbling too – were all that pleased with the outcome either (this all assumes killings were indeed done and I continue to leave the option of ‘extraction” open for now as we only have the “too complicated” argument going against it). That is one reason that I strongly surmise the killers are of a “third” agency that doesn’t quite play by the rules the french and brits try to observe. For whatever reason that agency has greater sway over the french than the brits. And that too is a clue as to who that might be.
Excuse me Mochyn, do you always become unpleasant & insult when people disagree with you ?
I am neither daft or blind, as I said …………THAT IS WHAT I SEE ON MY SCREEN …full screen !
You need to learn some tolerance.
General comment, having read the Times piece and strayed over to MZT to look at some comments:
People produce all kind of theories for the motives and perpetrators of the crime. discussions here too about eg, a Drug Deal gone wrong, or the lone psychopath or a mafia-style revenge etc etc.
The big problem – definitely – and meticulously – ignored by the Times piece which does note some “perculiarities” is that it is patently clear that a cover-up was involved in the aftermath. There is simply no other way of explaining the contradictions in the timelines, the “clean up” crews working overtime to sanitize the stories, the lack of photos and the keeping of the girls from the family even now – three months after the fact.
The same is true of those who point to possible mafia/drug deal as motive. Such would not necessitate the extreme cover-up measures nor the media’s willingness to cooperate in such.
Of course, there is the possibility of the killer ‘agency” being a powerful mafia-like interest (say this Auchi character, or a Russian linked one), but then one will have to explain how they were able to reduce the intelligence and police agencies of two countries to the level of quivering stooges. No such explanation was ever forthcoming that I saw.
Marlin , I did. The ‘character’ you mention is all powerful, read about his ELF court case , he knows too much about French & British politicians, he was Saddams man, likewise the Brits are in his pocket as is Obama. This theory is the only one which ties in the loose ends.
I keep spelling it out, AH was set up by him for this meeting, Mollier & Cezus was a perfect ploy, the ‘character’ has ties to intelligence services, he can & does silence people, as has Obama.
The network is fact not conjecture.
AH knew too much about him with information which has come to light since his fathers death, no way could the character be exposed, so far he has managed to keep a lid on his activities & for years……but the net is closing.
He still has unfinished business in France.
He will also knows about Saddams money in Geneva etc.
I too have been reading MZT, and tried to post there yesterday but my post never appeared.
If SM as has been suggested was maybe involved in a drug deal having a pharmacist partner I assume could jeopardize her career.
The Schutz family made a donation of badges to the museum here including Pharmacy Without Borders. The family may not be overjoyed at their daughter’s choice of a partner.
http://lesconseilsdupharmacien.info/pins_donation_schutzmorange.htm
This website seems reluctant to let google translate for me:-
http://www.psfci.org/
Maybe I am adding 2 + 2 and getting 5 but seeing as it has been mentioned that Thierry Schutz suggested the route to Sylvain.
Katie, marlin
we do not disagree with the mobster theory. It’s not unlikely. However, in our new world order since 2001, mobsters are used by intelligence services while mobsters use intelligence. Particularly the world wide drug dealing is part of intelligence financing structures. It’s not the Brits alone. It’s USA, Russia, Israel, Iran, you name them. It’s a convenient way to finance foreign intelligence with black money, that is used for bribing politicians, smuggling of weapons to jihadists or simply to fund a few hundred demonstrators like it happens at that very moment in Egypt, funded and organised by Mrs. Livni (Mossad).
I don’t think that nowadays we could split “mobsters and intelligence”. They are working hand by hand. Mobsters doing the dirty and dangerous jobs (where they could get caught), while intelligence is doing the planning, the organisation, the money laundering and the collecting of information and the covert up operations. It’s a world wide trust that works like a hedge fund. When we say intelligence, we mean mobsters. And when we say mobsters, we mean foreign intelligence services.
Katie, one other thing:
We can definitely link NATO general Joop de Hoop Scheffer to Mabel Wisse Smit since they are both Dutch. We can definitely link Mabel Wisse Smit to Bosnian Jihadists and some people link her to be responsible for the Srebrenica massacre. Some people link her to an “International drug smuggling queen”. I believe that most of this comes from unreliable sources and is conspiracy. However, there are no doubts that she had deep links to NATO and Bosnia and that her first boyfriend was the Dutch Druglord and that her second boyfriends was Muhammed Sacirbey. The latter is confirmed history.
Now my question: Can we link her somehow to Mr.X and the London mobsters? I’m asking because there are currently some unreliable(?) rumours in Bosnia and in Serbia that NATO ambassador Milinovic “jumped” from that garage building because he was about to release information about an international drugs network with “deep links to the Dutch Royal family and to the Dutch ex NATO general” and with deep links to a British “intelligence service”. (We know confirmed by history that the Dutch Royal family has deep genetic links with the British Royal family).
What do you think about those rumours?
Katie,
here is more (reliable) information regarding Wisse Smit:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0424/1224315105715.html
Can we link her “foster-uncle” Mr.SOROS to Mr.X?
If we can, then we indeed have got a very good connection and a lot of the recent events are becoming much more enlightening then.
I don’t think that yesterday the terrible fire in Ari Ben Menashe’s Quebec house was an accident at all. Canadian fireworkers don’t think so as well.
Katie,
after all those events, I don’t think that the accident of her husband Prince Frisno was an “accident”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/9089088/Johan-Friso-Avalanche-buries-Dutch-prince-in-Lech-Austria.html
Particularly when we read that paragraph from the Telegraph:
“Dutch media quoted a professional skier familiar with the area who said he “could not believe that somebody with as much experience as the prince was skiing off-piste”.”
I’ll try to find out something about that “to be said local” guy who was routing him into that avelange. Perhaps he has got some links to an intelligence service. I’ll find his name tomorrow.
… and while all those events are happening such accidentally …
from the same Telegraph report:
“Prince Friso, who has an degree in mechanical engineering, lives in London with his wife and two daughters, and works as chief financial officer for Urenco, a uranium enrichment company based in Berkshire.”
Oh yes, and URENCO UK has tight links with Areva
http://www.urenco.com/page/394/Enrichment-Technology-Management-team.aspx
Two French are currently running the enrichment technology team of Urenco where Dutch Prince Frisno had worked.
“A joint venture between Urenco and Areva”
Can we put Mollier somehwere here as a Middle Man?
We have Uranium and Drugs, Soros and the Dutch Royal family, we have Bosnia and Serbia, we have a NATO ambassador who jumped yesterday from a garage roof simply because he does not want to live any longer and about whom was said (rumoured) that he had information regarding ……
URENCO isn’t new in the Saad al Hilli / Mollier investigation.
It had been mentioned in boomantribune as well as on the MZT blog
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2012/9/18/105014/378
MZT
10/31/2012 “Oui” already mentioned Urenco in the MZT blog regarding al Hilli.
Today we arrived to URNECO from the other side:
NATO ambassador “suicide” in Brussels ->
…………. Link to ex Dutch NATO general and Mabel Wisse Smit ->
……………….. links to the Royal Dutch family ->
………………………links to drug smuggling and British intelligence ->
…… links from Wisse Smit to Prince Frisno ->
……. prince Frisno worked for URENCO ->
…………………………… prince Frisno (more or less) “died” in the Alps.
Marlin
5 Dec, 2012 – 7:10 pm what we have seen is a multiplicity of explanations for this crime, none of which hold up under examination. The fact that these have all been put out by the French authorities, linked to inexplicable interpretations of the scene, is the strongest evidence of French complicity. The drug running suggestion for this individual and family, supported by some here, is in my view hardly worth consideration. It was you will remember, one of EM suggestions but even he did not pursue it. Any intelligence worth its salt will know the the most used sites and seek to influence them. How much does a kook cost? You can have an army of them and still not dent a 80 BILLION DOLLAR budget*. “OK lets have another go at floating this drug deal idea. Can’t we produce a few drug dealers in our pocket?”
WIKI: Pursuant to a suggestion by 9/11 Commission, the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) released the top line amount given to the NIP for fiscal year 2009 as 49.8 billion USD.[1] In FY2010, the NIP budget was 53.1 billion USD,[2] and the MIP budget 27 billion USD,[3] amounting to a total of 80 billion USD.[4]
Bb, I’m just off to bed, but this is one Dutch connection I have, will do more in the morning, remember our man is ,oil, arms & BS. 😉
Dutch University hails the Arab businessman’s contributions to economic investment and his support of educational institutions and scientific research.
‘Recognizing achievement
AMMAN – The Netherlands’ Lahaye University awarded the Arab businessman and CEO of General Mediterranean Holding, Nadhmi Auchi, an honorary doctorate for his efforts in economic investment and in recognition of his role in supporting a number of educational institutions and scientific research programmes.”
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=35891
@ Bluebird
Apropos to your discussion of the intertwining of politicians, intelligence services and mobsters, there was in the US an radio interview with the author of a book titled in part “Kill or Capture”. Didn’t catch all of the title or the author’s name.
Fun part is, he said before the election President Obama objected relaxing the rules as to who was added to the president’s kill list, because he didn’t trust a possible President Romney to be as judicious as he was in using this power. He has or had 2500 on the list, but I didn’t understand if that meant he’d already killed (brought to justice – ha ha) 2500 or that was his to-do list.
Author also said States prefer to use their secret services for drones, killings, etc., rather than their military for some obscure diplomatic reason I didn’t understand – war crimes maybe. If anyone from the Diplomatic Community is here, could they explain? There’s a related story here:
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/whose-kill-list...
Those who follow the mobsters and mafias in Russia, say it’s now all one. The government, President Putin, the Oligarchs and the Russian mafia. Very difficult to figure out who is doing what or why. One conclusion was it’s a very bad idea to disrespect a friend of Putin’s at the judo or tennis club (forget which) or it could cost you your 6 billion smuggling enterprise and you’ll be reduced to poverty – only 1 billion left. (Price of buying your way back into Vladamir’s good graces – put together a new consortium and invest 4 billion in a favoured area of the economy.)
And there is a link between al Hilli and Prince Friso.
Friso worked from 2006-2010 for TNO space systems.
TNO worked with Surrey Satellites on the MIS project. that is more or less the same project that was said that Saad was working for.
http://www.sstl.co.uk/News-and-Events/2008-News-Archive?story=1175
http://www.tno.nl/content.cfm?context=thema&content=markt&laag1=897&laag2=191&item_id=191&Taal=2
This is also very interesting to read here:
In regards to the life Friso and Mabel lead these days with their two children, near to nothing is known. The only function that is openly published is (from 2004 onwards) his ‘part time directorship with TNO Space’, an organization with strong ties to the military-industrial complex and leading in the field of ‘earth observation’ through satellites. Friso obtained a master degree in Aviation and Space Technology at the university of Delft before continuing his studies in California.His wife Mabel, just before beginning a relationship with the Dutch Al Capone, became (1997) director of the Brussels-based Open Society Institute, a play toy of billionaire-investor …. read more in the link below
http://www.infowars.com/born-to-rule-bilderbergs-torchbearers/
The avelange was strange. It was alarm 4 set for avelanches. usually you dont ski offside the ski area when there is 4 (out of 5). He was found quickly, but in the helicopter that took 20 minutes to the hospital, the oxygen mask did not work due to low temperature.
Who is the second bluebird? Coincidence? Please verify! Maybe typing error?
I posted this earlier. Nobody I think picked on it.
“The presence of examining magistrate Cecile Youl-Pailhes and deputy prosecutor Patrick Desjardins alongside a group of 20 gendarmes raised hopes of an imminent breakthrough in the search for Wilson, 58.”
I don’t suppose said Patrick Desjardins (PD) could be involved at Annecy?
@ bluebird 5 Dec, 2012 – 11:04 pm
“The avelange was strange. It was alarm 4 set for avelanches. usually you dont ski offside the ski area when there is 4 (out of 5). He was found quickly, but in the helicopter that took 20 minutes to the hospital, the oxygen mask did not work due to low temperature.”
There is the case of US Congressman Sonny Bono who allegedly died while skiing off-piste and hit a tree.
“SONNY Bono, former husband and singing partner of superstar Cher, was clubbed to death by hitmen on the orders of drug and weapons dealers who feared he was going to expose them, a former FBI agent claims.”
Ted Gunderson, now a private investigator, has told the US Globe tabloid that Bono, who served as mayor of Palm Springs for four years, did not die after hitting a tree on a Nevada ski slope in January 1998 as everyone believed.
“Instead, there’s powerful proof he was assassinated. “This was an evil plot that was carried out to almost perfection by ruthless assassins.””
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=130&contentid=4973&page=2