The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@BB
I can agree to disagree but Katie is in a different class: she is intentionally misleading and time-wasting. Sorry for taking up the airspace but sometimes these things need saying.
@Bluebird
11 Dec, 2012 – 1:59 pm
I don’t disagree with you, despite being on the receiving end of ‘Katie”s invective at times and on occasions aiming to give back as good as I get. I will also challenge anybody if I see their logic is a bit dodgy.
I do agree however that apart from friendly banter, and even strident disagreements, we shouldn’t allow this board to fall into a mire of personal abuse.
So, keep calm and carry on. Keep digging! But please do supply cross references and sources to lend some validity to our ‘work’.
eight x what = 24?? This is taxing my brain cells! It must be 3!?!
Tim V.
Re you post.
If (and we don’t know) there was a roofbox ontop of the BMW, are we assuming that the killer(s) got away with it ?
It maybe the case that the killer(s) did not ?
@Bluebird
I have to agree with Ferret.
And also Tim V’s comment at the end of his post.
@ Mochyn69 11 Dec, 2012 – 12:30 pm
“@Juno 11 Dec, 2012 – 11:49 am
“I noticed a number of MSM reports actually put the word ‘suicide’ in inverted commas .. like they don’t necessarily believe it. A terrible tragedy, nevertheless.”
I heard reports of an “apparent” suicide and another that she died in the street. What if it’s a natural death? Does the TV play video of the DJs backward so they take back their tears.
The hospital says they are donating a large sum to the family, and undoubtedly the DJs and radio station will do the same. Then persons will set up charities of which a small part goes to the family, or to a foundation to educate people to the horrors of prank calls.
So can we do the same here? Will James or Katie volunteer to disappear for a while. Someone can say they saw them jump in the water, from something high, wherever they are, driven mad by the cyber-bullying, and the body never found.
The rest of us get all indignant and repentant over what happened and set up our own charity for their kids. I get one extra share of the pool money for thinking this up. If the volunteer victim doesn’t have real kids for us to use, we rent 2 or 3 from central casting. Insufferably cute ones. I am a cynic. 🙂
@NR
“Will James or Katie volunteer to disappear for a while” !
I’ll volunteer….
Insufferable illogic makes me respond by pointing it out.
However I fear “it” will continue.
Reasoned enlightenment I enjoy and appreciate.
I can understand how many “posters” have left what was an enlightened place…before illogical musings became accepted !
And anyway, the sun is shining. I have days off to enjoy.
Ciao for now methinks !
A curious thing in all the outrageous innuendo: another airline enters the picture, this one a UK transport company, connected to a person in high place, formerly UK defence attache to Egypt and Kuwait. Apparently, it’s not worth much:
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06777962
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/jet-express
There’s a similar-sounding company in Ireland. Not sure if it’s related:
http://transportation.zibb.co.uk/profile/jet+express+ltd/ie/co+dublin/dublin/6/23120835
Another curious thing in all the outrageous innuendo:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/15240309/EXCLUSIVE-FOR-GULAN-Colonel-Guy-__The-future-is-bleak-for-Iraq
One former defence attache to Egypt and Kuwait gives his views on Iraq and Kurdistan.
Posting this one again as I am curious as to what they have found in the photo .
There was a story about the gouges in the car park that had been filled in by the police ,I am curious as to which gouges they were referring too,there are the obvious ones made by the BMW ,for some reason I didnt get the feeling it was those and thats what got me looking for gouges orginally .
While I think about it does this statement match what you see in the photos of the BMW “The BMW was reversed at speed into the near-vertical bank beside the parking area. Gouge marks, two feet up the embankment, were visible “?
Look at row six 2nd pair the journalists are pointing at something of interest ,I think its some marks on the ground .
http://www.apimages.com/Search.aspx?st=k&remem=x&entity=&kw=chevaline&intv=None&shgroup=-10&sh=10#d
“Are you effectively arguing for a dictatorship?”
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mr3q_frederick-forsyth-on-europe-worldvi_news#.UMdej4awVPQ
Guy Sayle responds.
Pink
I’m struggling to work out which photo you are talking about.
The number of photos per row changes.
Please give the photo ID no.
Sorry Strawberry its
#199736585964
#867657219289
Thanks
The photographer Jonathan Buckmaster doesnt link to much other(on this case) than 2 photos in an Express article, but not these 2 photos.
My colour blindness doesnt help see much on the large thumbnails that we have.
Many paths lead to Spain:
http://bizzy.co.uk/uk/07749071/toorit-mineral-resources
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8901977/The-polo-playing-Spaniard-and-the-clients-asking-where-is-our-money.html
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/bankrupt-the-polo-playboy-who-owes-a-fortune-to-investors-7309955.html
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/illinois/ilndce/1:2011cv03739/256367/
Just background.
Tim 1-40.
I can only say we were in a 4×4 Jeep & I have no idea how the size varies with a Pajero, my intention is not to undermine but to point to what I see as obvious, you agree the motorbike could not have taken anything the size of a Thule box, I’m saying IF there was one & IF it did fit inside the Pajero don’t you think the witness would have said something like it looked full or was carrying something large inside etc ?
You have also overlooked the fact that a Thule box has HORIZONTAL load bearers………there are none on the BMW, so maybe you could explain that ?
LIBOR suit in U.S. involving Spanish polo player:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444082904577609562867811158.html
Back to hawala:
http://www.drishtikone.com/hsbc-running-is-doing-hawala-money-laundering-operations-in-india-and-us/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+deshkapoor+%28Drishtikone%3A+Perspective%29
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324478304578171650887467568.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/11/us-hsbc-probe-idUSBRE8BA05M20121211
Is it possible that the alleged al-Hilli/Saddam fortune got hit by high-falutin’ fraud/rate scandals/wrongdoing by banks, in addition to run-of-the-mill, random con artists?
Kookie says…
“You have also overlooked the fact that a Thule box has HORIZONTAL load bearers………there are none on the BMW, so maybe you could explain that ?”
Picture (via link) below.
Note BMW Touring roof bars (black)fitted as STANDARD.
Note CROSS BARS fitted from the standard roof bars.
Note the CARRYING “white” bars running over those CROSS BARS.
( http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shootings-saad-al-hilli-1310898 )
Note how crazy Kookie Katie’s quote reads now !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo4zHBQQI6I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDaUjRqkY4o
Please note people, the HORIZONTAL bars need to be proud of the vertical bars to carry a Thule box, AH BMW bars are the reverse.
Funny how it’s all gone quiet. Lol !!!
James this is the last time I reply to you & your bad manners.
What part of LOAD BEARING BARS did you not understand ?
The cross bars have to be RAISED not beneath other bars.
Take your own advice & study the photo, stop shouting & think [ if possible] before you dash off multiple comments all proving yourself wrong.
BTW there is no E in arguing !
This forum not allowing photos is only extending this argument.
Straw I have most of the photos, there are no load bearing horizontal bars for a missing Thule with the set up seen on the BMW.
The white bar you see on the right is not a load bearing for a box , a roof box cannot be fixed on anything but a cross/horizontal bar….. for obvious reasons that traction is prevented by horizontal fixings.
The two horizontal bars as seen are low & unlike box fixings, admittedly we are looking down on them but the fixing shown in the Youtube video look higher……but in any case those on the BMW are holding the present tube, not the reverse.
Katie,
The almost in tact white bar on the right is resting on the 2 horizontal load-bearing bars.
The car photo in this sun report is marginally clearer:-
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?num=10&hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1063&bih=617&tbm=isch&tbnid=Lk3ha_Zjx_X_sM:&imgrefurl=http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4536506/Diana-cops-to-investigate-Alps-massacre-car.html&docid=bn3PaleRvUhKzM&imgurl=http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01583/Saad-al-Hilli-car__1583444a.jpg&w=620&h=426&ei=8YzHUJSgEIHD0QXd5oGgBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=227&vpy=225&dur=2195&hovh=187&hovw=271&tx=193&ty=128&sig=112673049740154760789&page=2&tbnh=133&tbnw=199&start=13&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0,i:126
[sorry, stupid link]
Look Katie…give me one minute
The “theory” goes. The “possible” box is fixed ONTO the crossbars.
Those that are clearly shown on the BMW, running from the roofbars.
This is a BMW setup.
The “white” bits we see (which I believe you are concentrating on) are (or maybe) the parts of the roofbox.
Be that “Thule” or a.an.other.
The point is this (and please listen, before talking), “something” appears to be fitted to those crossbars you see (forget the white bars for a moment).
That “something” MAY have been a roof box (of some type)and if it were a roof box (which is consistent with the marks of “dirt on the roof) it MAY have left “white bits” attached to the cross bars.
However the white right bar prevents a fullsize roof box and even the remaining broken off front on the left hand side may also prevent a smaller box on the left of the roof.
Thanks for the 2 vids. I dont think the box needs to be that far clear of the roof, I do think the horizontal bars on SAH’s BMW would easily be sufficient.
Staw !
Now I don’t think you’re seeing it !
Imagine “if” there was a white (for the sake of it !) roofbox on that BMW…and it had been removed (by force, not unlocked and removed) it would be “safe” to assume that the stongest “locked” bits would reamin.
Those “strong bits” could be the white “bars” attached to the crossbars (which are fitted between the roofbars.
You see it ?
Still talking about the roof but moving on fron the bars. The white mark on the left side of the roof isnt perfectly round.
If it is a leverage mark it appears to have been attempted from the front of the car. Please check to see if you agree with me.
There appears to be a bulge in the circular mark to the front of the car.
If it isnt from a levering action, what can it be?
A projectile would suggest from the air and downwards, rules out normal stone chips from driving, especially in that position.
The only other idea I have is – a bungee cord being released. Hard to imagine it causing that.
Straw…
Look at how a Thule fits and locks onto a crossbar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKPmAsNqHsE
Now imagine you cannot open that box and unlock the clamps (which is done from inside).
What would be left if you lever it off ?
The white mark on the left ….near the pax door ?
Looks like a “bullet mark” !
That’s what I first thought. But how ???
Up from inside ? Downwards (from a tree !) ?
A grazing shot, clipping the roof ? (could be).
Or a “leverage” mark. snapping off the “box” on that side, but with less force applied to the otherside (drivers).
Seems more likely to me.
ok I mistakenly thought the white bars were from last years bike carrier but they’re not.
So if a lever was applied I agree we would see what we do now.
Even the thule boxes in Katie’s youtube vids are flimsy apart from the lock and would fit vertically on a car back seat or with rear seats flat.