The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
http://www.refuges.info/point/2928/point-d-eau/bauges/fontaine-du-chalet-des-barbus/
Access:
Since the parking Martinet de la Combe d’Ire, up towards the chalets Cold Water.
1420m to the coast, a track goes north-east direction of Barbus Chalet, located 5 minutes.
La Fontaine is located in the immediate vicinity of the cottage and has a very good flow.
CAUTION: Barbus cottage is private and closed, thank you for respecting these places.
The fountain is open access.
The place is also sometimes used by the NFB.
…….
http://www.refuges.info/point/2927/cabane-non-gardee/bauges/chalets-de-l-eau-froide/
From whom to learn:
Managed by the municipality of Giez.
Access:
By Combe d’Ire, the ski resort Seythenex, the Col d’Orgeval …
Remarks:
Any small square house of recent construction (built in the 2000s and some) in blocks and wood framing, concrete floor.
A single room with table, benches, stove (very effective) wood available (in the form of PLACHETTES, cut to the right size and in moderation).
Isolation very average because of the materials used in construction, despite the fact that the windows (all 3 parts equipped) and the door close very well (construction “modern”).
No equipment intended for sleeping (which also remains a mystery). There are however enough floor space to sleep about 5 (or more …). Must bring his entire bedding if you want to sleep (so bring a good ground isolation and a good sleeping bag in the cold season).
The cottage is located close to a barn in the summer activity.
Fountain for water replenishment to the fold.
The view of Lake Annecy deserves passage.
These refuges could be why SAH had so much stuff in the car you need to take bedding etc .
I an thinking SAH was past the layby sign and the French blogger was right he drove back to the layby .
Maybe he got a bit confused about the access and went back to read the sign .
What had he seen that was a problem SM ,BM,ONF ,Motorbiker ,possibly PD and co.?
PD was also planning an overnight stay at one of the refuges with his ladies allegedly.
A refuge visit could be just a good way to see the view or an adventure or a place to keep out of sight ,or keep the family out of sight .
Any thoughts and don’t bring up Granny I realise she was bit past all this hiking.
I am thinking if he saw something it seems unlikely that he would have known what it was or he wouldn’t have got out of the car with Zainab.
I need to know where the builder saw the car pass.
http://www.lemessager.fr/Actualite/Chablais/2012/09/05/article_messager_1623629.shtml
“The victims were in street clothes, but they had expressed their intention to walk. Hiking trails that start from the Combe d’Ire are some accessible without hiking outfit special.”
“9.30: The Mayor of Horses, Didier Berthollet, reacted to the killing, which happened late Wednesday afternoon at a few hundred meters from the village. “There is a lot of traffic since yesterday,” he said Thursday 6 September morning. He learned the news by firefighters. “They called me as they used to do when there is an incident in the town.” The mayor then tried to get to the scene of the tragedy, but the road was cut off by the police, dispatched to the scene. “On the spot, I did not have any information on what happened.” A few hours after the tragedy, Didier Berthollet is said to be still under the shock of the new. “It is unlikely, surreal. Was the impresssion be on another planet.” The exact location of the crime was still unclear to him. “It happened on the way to the Horn of Ire, but we do not yet know if this is really the common Chevaline. Because an area of 1400 hectares, only 1% is inhabited, the rest being pastures, forest or rocks. parking, which is a plot of clay flat was obviously found where the car is 4 kilometers homes. ” The morning of September 6, the mayor did not have more information and remained in limbo. “
The Mayor of Chevaline , Didier Berthollet is not told anything but the Deputy Mayor of Ugine Michel Chevalier is in the loop.
Chevalier means Knight I wondered what google translate was saying for a minute.
Stem cell research originated with poultries and was funded by poultry farms in 1970-1990. Link to Kadhim, too?
http://www.ehow.com/about_5075044_did-stem-cell-research-originate.html
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1683&dat=20011026&id=6L0aAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1D4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=5217,5209812
I was always wondering why a highly educated science guy like him would have interest for having a poultry farm.
There were already arrests made for human stem cells smuggling.
Bluebird can you have a look here and see if it means anything to you.
http://irandidban.com/fa/Look-%D8%A8%D8%AF%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%AF%20%D9%88%20%D8%AA%D8%B3%D9%84%DB%8C%D8%AA/18288
Mochyn69
26 Dec, 2012 – 4:43 am The Telegraph article is credired to Colin Freeman, Baghdad7:00AM GMT 23 Dec 2012 who is “the Chief Foreign Correspondent for the Sunday Telegraph. He has worked for the paper for six years, covering stories in Africa, Europe, the Middle East and Asia. His most recent book is “Kidnapped: life as a hostage on Somalia’s pirate coast”. In other words this is a Telegraph article not one originating from news agencies such as Reuters or APT. The Brisbane times article of the 27th Dec is credited to the same author and comes from the “Telegraph, London” at the bottom. So I have answered my own question there by looking a bit closer. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/annecy-mystery-still-to-be-unravelled-20121225-2bv7v.html#ixzz2G6CPdHOk
I think it is the case that if papers get the story from the newsagencies such as Reuters or AFP they credit the source. But as anyone who has followed Private Eye’s “Street of Shame” over the years, it is not unknown for hacks to write stories at their desks as if they were at the scene. My point generally was to highlight the fact that despite alleged plurality and freedom, all the outlets have ploughed an identical furrow, virtually never deviating from the official annoucements by questing, challenging or delving into background. Isn’t this at least slightly surprising?
Now for family connections have we come across this nice Australian fellow before? I’m sure we must have. Gson of Hashim is he?
Senior Analyst
Deloitte Australia
Partnership; 5001-10,000 employees; Management Consulting industry
February 2009 – Present (3 years 11 months) Melbourne Area, Australia
Degree from Monash University, established in Melbourne, Australia in 1958.
“Hashim Al-Hilli
Senior Analyst at Deloitte
Melbourne Area, Australia Information Technology and Services is a specialist in the provision of IT Controls assurance, Governance and Business Continuity Management. He has experience in both controls assurance and BCM through various local, interstate and overseas entities. Hashim has performed many controls assurance reviews as part of Deloitte’s internal and external audit projects. Furthermore he has both reviewed and implemented BCM for a range of clients.”
pink,
I think that you must help me here to let me understand what it means. I understand that this is an obituary for some brave Iranian women who was supporting female rights in Iran. I checked the name and at least some people with that name were involved in human stem cell research programs. However, I didn’t find a certain link towards somebody with the same names having been mentioned in that obituary, probably due to a bad google translation. It would be helpful for our serch if you had told us about why you did find that and what had been the reason for your finding of this obituary.
Hi Bluebird thanks for looking,I don’t know what it is I think it may have been one of Oui’s hyperlinks but not sure about that ,I had it saved in my links and wondered if it meant anything to you.
I am guessing I saved it to read later at some point as Oui often puts several links in a post but whatever the context was I can’t remember.
@Jon
I saw your comment on the other thread, I hope you had a good Christmas break and sorry to be on your case as soon as you got back thank’s for fixing it.
pink,
do you still have the original link of “Oui”‘s original message? That would perhaps help finding in what kind of context that persian link had been originally posted.
Tim V
Melbourne is the home of Ali Hashim al Hilli. He is the som of Hashim al Hilli and the brother of Balsham al Hilli-Xanthis.
That Hashim that you mention here is most likely the son of Ali Hashim al Hilli. He is then – as his son – most likely also spelled as “Hashim Ali al Hilli” in some official documents. Hashim al Hilli must therefore be the grandson of the diplomat Hashim al Hilli. Hopefully that info is of any help here.
@BB: Poultry is used in the maufacture of vaccines.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=better-flu-vaccine
http://www.unicef.org/media/media_9414.html
http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/iraq_53568.html
http://mawtani.al-shorfa.com/en_GB/articles/iii/features/2012/12/07/feature-02
Iraq launched its first National Vaccine Week in 2010, with further follow-up.
It would be hard to talk about Iraq and vaccines without mentioning this one for background information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthrax_Vaccine_Adsorbed
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/2004-05-18-muslim-ceos_x.htm
Q,
vaccine is possible, but I found members of the Al Allaf and the al Saffar family particularly researching in human stem cell science. And then I saw Morange in biomed and stem cell research as well as a name “Schutz” mentioned (though I wasn’t able to confirm whether or not that Schutz is related to Thierry Schutz). Then I saw that in France it is ethically impossible to create human stem cells from embryos or neonatals since a law would forbid that for ethic reasons. Iraq and Iran allows that, as well as Sweden allows it (if I remember well enough). In the USA it is allowed but restricted.
There were already smuggling cases and arrests regarding human stem cells and those cells seem to be pretty expensive and its trade mostly prohibited due to ethical and health reasons.
Perhaps there is more money to be made currently with human stem cells smuggling than with drug smuggling?
Of course, like your example with the poultry farms and the many eggs necessary for vaccine, there are many human embryos and neonatals necessary for creating stem cells. Unfortunately those embryos will never become human but end up in the garbage. That’s the ethical question for many politicians.
Currently there are alot of stem cell therapies for elderly people, for cancer patients and particularly for people suffering on nuclear diseases. Stem cells are healing a lot of people, particularly blind ones who can see again after such a therapy. So far this is only for the rich ones because it is very expensive and of course it’s pretty dangerous because nobody knows anything about possible side effects.
As I said, I can put almost everybody we had talked about into the human stem cells theory, except for Saad al Hilli. What he had done as his jib doesn’t fit here. But all the other people involved (except for the kids) fits perfectly well.
@Bluebird
The link I have is the one I posted ,this one is the homepage what I think must of happened is I followed a link that auto translated and then clicked through to this page and saved the wrong page.
http://irandidban.com/fa/
@BB: Strange question, but can’t cord blood be banked for stem cells, and can’t those stem cells be used by any family member who is a match? Not sure of the rules in France in this regard.
Good work, Pink.
Here I leave another hypothesis: if the motorbiker was a friend of the diver of 4X4?
Perhaps some enterprising person (felix, BB et al?) could e mail him and get a direct response circumventing the papers completely????????
Pink
26 Dec, 2012 – 11:08 am Yes there he is Didier Berthollet – another Didier! As to those mountain retreats, they lend themselves more to use by conspirators than to the Al Hilli party. Can you really see them all trooping up there, leaving the car behind, four year old to woman in her seventies, not kitted out for hiking or backpacks (only bags), stopping there overnight? Nor do I see it likely he went past the sign at the end of the car park. There is the time issue but more important I feel sure this was the specific location for the meeting place. Everything points to it. Strange though that the Sky reporter on site on the 7th definately says the cyclist came down the hill. We must assume he got it wrong though I have never seen them correct it. Lastly I too would like to see precise locations on a map of all the known witnesses and people involved. It would help a lot to visualise things. I was hoping that one of the clever people on here might have created one that we could download. (Hopeful look)
With Craig “off the air” (thankyou Jon for getting it back) I watched a Russian TV network programme on the Syrian civil war. Unsurprisingly it took a pro-Assad stance and followed army units into combat. The point relevant here tho was a French Doctor from “Doctors Without Borders” stated that a large proportion of the anti-government forces were muslims from France. Came as a bit of a surprise that. Complicated because they tend to be Sunni I guess and I’m not sure how that fits with the Al Hilli’s Shia background. But I think it was established some time back that either Mollier or Brun or both had north African connections. French government has taken a fairly robust anti-Assad stance as it did Ghadaffi. Are the French nationals there with government backing? Was Al Hilli seen as a threat to this operation?
Oh it’s at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iAnhGCaG6s&feature=share if anyone’s interested.
Coldplay in Paris. Is anything impossible for the human spirit if once aroused and focused. No wonder government is terrified of the the mob but even more so of the informed.
Thanks for the link of the view from the other side on the syrian imperialistic war. Of course this is a russian propaganda video and as much far off truth as the western propaganda videos are.
Cui bono?
The rich and the richest, the banks and the mafia clans make money with such killers and mercenaries. Regardless if their names are Putin, Sarkozy, Cameron, Rothschild, Bush, al Saud, Mr X, some Mullahs or Obama. This is a dirty game for money and imperialistic power and influence. The poor are the ones who will suffer, as always. It is disgusting. Unfortunately the real war criminals never receive their judgement.
This may help a little in distinguishing some of the groups in France.
http://www.microconflict.eu/publications/PWP4_SA.pdf
@ bluebird 28 Dec, 2012 – 12:46 am
“Thanks for the link of the view from the other side on the syrian imperialistic war. Of course this is a russian propaganda video and as much far off truth as the western propaganda videos are. Cui bono?”
“The rich and the richest, the banks and the mafia clans make money with such killers and mercenaries. Regardless if their names are Putin, Sarkozy, Cameron, Rothschild, Bush, al Saud, Mr X, some Mullahs or Obama. This is a dirty game for money and imperialistic power and influence. The poor are the ones who will suffer, as always. It is disgusting. Unfortunately the real war criminals never receive their judgement.”
Possibly related to the Chevaline murders are stealing and extracting natural resources from the third world; the arms, money laundering, mercenary, drug businesses and the state intelligence agencies.
Marc Rich – Known as the ‘commodities magnate’… based in Marbella [Spain] allegedly made 13 billion dollars a year. Bill Clinton gave him a presidential Pardon after he was indicted for the biggest tax fraud in US history.
After spending several years in Zug… Rich moved to Meggen… and owns property in the ski resort of St. Moritz, Switzerland, and in Marbella.
The link below has many other interesting connections, Russian Mafia, etc. Unfortunately, much of the page is devoted to “Da Jews Dun It” though it has proven correct on events such as Jimmy Savile and the paedophile services to the elites.
Marc Rich is of passing interest in that he hung out on the Costa del Sol as did grandpa al Hilli, as well as thousands of innocents I’m sure, many of whom were swindled in real estate and time-share scams. The area does seem to host some notorious notables including Adnan Khashoggi [not a Jew AFAIK].
http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/marc-rich-jewish-mafia.html?m=1
If you haven’t heard, “Mossad tried to kill Saddam in the 1970s – November 12, 2012”
http://www.timesofisrael.com/mossad-tried-to-kill-saddam-in-the-1970s-new-documentary-reveals/#comments
Below is from an Egyptian paper, a country with a record of brutal torture, as do many of the countries in that region – and elsewhere. On behalf of (some) Israelis I’d say at least they’re honest about what they’re doing. No “Bringing People to Justice” via little lists, or extraordinary renderings and enhanced interrogations or whatever our current euphemisms are.
“In Israel, the murder of Palestinians and their mutilation is openly applauded at the highest levels 15 October 2008”
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/917/re3.htm
@Holmes.Pt
The only 4×4’s that are on my radar are Mr. Brun and the forestry one and I have no idea who was driving the forestry one to know where to start .
The forestry one seems to have helped/escorted/chased the bike away from the scene .
The bike seems to be main suspect ..
Do you think there was some Black market going on ?
@Tim
Did you listen to what he said about leaving the crime scene the roads are perfectly ok for a vehicle.
Pay attention to what he says at 6.00 onwards about leaving the scene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtLgnAaM9Ws&feature=youtu.be
……………
Map
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Route+de+La+Combe+d'Ire+Chevaline+France&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.774797,6.224699&spn=0.00003,0.024719&safe=active&hnear=Route+Foresti%C3%A8re+Domaniale+de+la+Combe+d'Ir%C3%A9,+74210+Chevaline,+Haute-Savoie,+Rh%C3%B4ne-Alpes,+France&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.774815,6.224782&panoid=nuHTKADUq1XtjCX_3jxdNA&cbp=12,184.69,,0,-6.31
@Tim
Max’s Gif based on what times he could pick up in the stories.
http://makeagif.com/i/wA1P9X