Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22278


The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?


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22,278 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis

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  • Marlin

    More speculation:

    WBM is in the loop as an agent-on-the-field. He may be SM’s minder – something suggested by a mutual interest in biking. For whatever reason, a meeting is arranged at the Martinet that SM is to attend and WBM is cognizant of – or even to be part of at some point. The killers – who noticed WBM on the Combe d’Ire following SM decide they need to get rid of SM immediately – before WBM quite arrives – since their instructions call for them to spare WBM no matter what (too much of a mess between agencies).

    the other possibility is that WBM is in on the plot to be rid of SM and arrives just in time for a mop-up operation. There is simply not enough information to be able to prefer one possibility or another here. It is even possible that WBM’s agency agreed to the getting rid of SM but not SAH who was of value to them, but the killers’ agency was rather more ruthless and could care less about SAH or his family’s life. So WBM, sent to mop up after SM is, in fact, surprised at the extent of the mayhem. He and his agency are sending a message loud and clear that they wdi not agree to be a party to a massacre. hence WBM putting all those little cogs in the wheel of the cover-up – giving a serious black eye to the French in the process 9and laughing about it, no doubt, as we speak, watching EM twisting in the wind with his “psycho killer” theory full of more holes than swiss cheese).

    To your 2:03 PM post, Tim V, I again agree with all you say – as I have been leaning towards 3-4 agencies all along. One we know is french, the other british, the third, most likely Mossad/CIA, with the CIA possibly being a rogue or a side element within the larger CIA. The complexity of the case is because some of the agencies may be working together but are also keeping some cards back. the one thing I do believe is that there are strong indications are that there was a double cross – most likely of the Brits by both the French and the third agency (Mossad/CIA), but that third agency is powerful enough to make the politics of disclosure untenable.

    Now, what was it that came to light recently about Mossad infiltrating CIA, pretending to be them in recruiting anti-Iran agents? I think we should revisit that little flap (a deliberate leak from the US, it seems) to see how that worked. it might give us a few more ideas about the nature of the double/triple crosses that were going on.

    I do agree – as mentioned earlier that the MO of the killing just doesn’t fit Iran or any other Arabic country. i noted that with some regret because the scenarios would have been a heck of a lot easier if we could only believe Iranian agents executed Trojan horses, once discovered. Alas, everything else is all wrong about it, including the selection of the Martinet. Iranians, based on what little I know of the people, also tend to be kind of straight-laced about things, and often too conservative to make use of dark humor. The manner of the killings, it’s cold brutality, the precision of the execution – and the symbolism – seem to require a certain deep cynicism about humans and a high degree of almost-psychopathic callousness towards one’s fellow humans. I did not in either personal experience or things I read found these to be common in Iranians. Yet, these are the very traits that are all too typically found in israelis (especially the callousness towards ones not of their tribe, said tribe being rather narrowly defined, that can even exclude some of their very own, under certain circumstances (cf. Rabin, or the vengeful pursuit of Vanunu)). Don’t mean to over-generalize about people and nationalities but no reason not to take into account certain traits as part of the overall speculation.

  • Tim V

    We have a direct link here between a French internet news channel, the murdoch empire, bribing/paying police incl. Surrey for info, ex British policemen, ex-Mossad controllers, Israeli based security firms, attempt to corrupt American due process, French Security Service being used to investigate on-line news service and illegally obtain telephone transcripts, a number of blogger suspicious deaths, arrests or likely framing to to shut down hackers. This is just one instance that has come to light in which National Police and Security Services are subverted to engage in essentially a commercial dispute, persuaded presumably by illicit payments. It paints a picture doesn’t it and only a small step from commercial to national security if all the communication links are already in place.

  • NR

    @ Tim V 20 Jan, 2013 – 8:42 pm
    “Did you get the bit about NDS using Bristol University’s Ion Beam to read info off their competitor’s chips?

    A long time back we were speculating on the uses of beam technolgies.

  • Tim V

    As a famous fraud Airline Pilot once said Marlin
    20 Jan, 2013 – 8:04 pm to continue the Hollywood theme, “I concur”. The French Prosecutor was anxious to keep Mollier out of it, even when the report emerged that he was shot first and most. The forensic lab and Vinneman may be outcrops of truth and resistance to the official line through EM. Vinneman raised doubts as to a possible “double life” the lab the bullet injuries and confirmed close proximity/interaction with the Al Hilli’s which was specifically denied by EM in suggesting both he and WBM had just “stumbled” on the scene. Then again with-holding the family dispute a very obvious contrast with the information about the Al Hillis. Now this quite clearly proves what? First that Mollier was quite clearly a target, indeed perhaps the pricipal one and that he was LINKED to the Al Hillis. It is inconceivable this was their first contact. People in the business of espionage are hardly likely to meet up for the first time in such a remote spot. Were there previous meeting when Al Hilli visited or was it all via the internet? I think it likely he worked for British Intelligence and knew he worked for them. How else can one explain his application for British passport just as SAH had done in 2002. Like him he might have been promised it on successful completion of this mission. The British passport is even more inexplicable in terms of his new relationship and child and the fact that within the EU the advantages are hardly appreciable. However in view of the above, the ONLY reason why both parties were there is a meeting with a THIRD who had specified the location. All these things have been suggested by me before (and probably others) but where does it point in terms of the perpetrator? On the one hand the French attempt to distance Mollier yet he is the subject of the greatest “ire”. Keeping him out of it would be the first step in protecting a killer. If he wasn’t a target and was just the unfortunate victim of irrational violence there could be no suggestion of connivance or targetted assassination. A second barrier was raised by protecting him from scrutiny – no photo, a minimum of biographical detail, downgrading his professional expertise, obscuring the reasons for a 3 yr absence from employment, not revealing the family dispute, speedy secret burial and so on. I don’t get the feeling this was to protect a friendship between State and victim, but to protect the State from any suggestion of complicity.

  • Tim V

    NR
    20 Jan, 2013 – 9:02 pm no missed that one NR tho u prob saw my ref to Cynosure a laser application firm?

  • NR

    @ Tim V 20 Jan, 2013 – 9:44 pm @ Q
    “NR 20 Jan, 2013 – 9:02 pm no missed that one NR tho u prob saw my ref to Cynosure a laser application firm?”

    Saw that. Are mules close enough to horses? The mules, carrying whatever, were slaughtered at the horse butchering place?

    @ Q Re: Jimmy (Cosmo) Cournoyer, Montreal
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/nyc_in_pot_triangle_rHndDjStDb1O9ImOVEVWXL

    “Vincent “Vinny GREEN” Faraci, a reputed Bonanno soldier who formerly managed the “CRAZY HORSE TOO” strip club in Las Vegas.”

    Never knew this: “Heroin earned the nickname “horse” because it kicks equines into overdrive. Morphine and other opiates, which lull humans to sleep, also trigger the ancient equine flight response.”

  • Tim V

    “Give them a green light. take them both out.” Bourne Ultimatum. Precisely what Martinet said above.

    “Under false identities, he made ​​many surveillance missions in Europe.
    .. in friendly countries. In London, Stockholm and Geneva, he notably ” stashed ”
    behind radical Islamists and different ” cib the s ” .For what purpose? Possible the ment prepare the heart ” neutralization ” by another team of the DGSE, if d Adventure political authority in giving the green light.”

    “This isn’t some story in a newspaper. This is real. Got me?” Jason Bourne.

    How hollywood and real life overlap? Perhaps that’s why Martin, Didierjean and Maillaud all describe it as such. Perhaps to plant the suggestion that it WAS fiction? So much easier for the public to come to terms with. No need to consider the implications of individuals shooting others through the head in cold blood.

  • Tim V

    I think we agree on prinipal points Marlin
    20 Jan, 2013 – 8:41 pm. I’m convinced the French helped set it up including possibly the use of a Forestry vehicle and helped the killers get away. I don’t think they did the shooting but i think they were probably on scene in the person of the 306 driver. This is pure speculation but I think it fits with the way the French have tried to divert attention, have lied, changed their story, allowed the site to be contaminated, intentionally misinterpreted the visual evidence, with held significant information and conspicuously refused to admit to the most obvious explanation. There must be some reason why SAH if he was capable of reversing, he didn’t drive forwards. It could have been the thought that Zainab was outside, it could have been the gunman coming towards him, or most likely i think that his route was blocked. The semi circle tyre tracks places the 4×4 in front of Mollier’s blood stains so either it was the motor cycle (insufficient) or car that stopped escape. My guess is it was the white Peugeot, but again just a guess. The much comment skid mark in front of the BMW suggests he first went forwad THEN reversed skidding in the process or it might have been the blocking car. There are problems with both idea. We have the “thirty seconds of shooting” in which everything has to happen. I doubt within this time frame there was time for anything more than the reverse. I suppose a blocking car could have made a braking skid mark as it came to a halt in fron. Such was the description of the white car and driver – both the haste to get away, and the fear on his face – I am convinced he witnessed the shooting, but not necessarily directly involved. Like the description od Martin, they were both panic stricken it seems. That suggests witness rather than cold blooded killer.

  • Q

    As I’ve said before, the licence plate of the car at the scene of the helicoper crash in London was not visible by the time the story hit the evening TV news. Here’s why: it was “pixelated at source”. I cannot explain why this would be done, as I’ve never seen it done before. Strangely, I hadn’t seen photos of motorcycles in the previous photos, either. You can go here if you wish to see the photos:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2263213/Vauxhall-Helicopter-crash-Matthew-Wood-named-second-victim-pilot-Pete-Barnes.html

  • James

    It is possible that the pilot in the eggbeater was had weather issues en route so went to a “return to base” route.
    That would have been an issue, so a divert was required.
    And then the crash.

    Weather ? Possible.
    Icing ? Unknown.
    Lighting on the crane unseen ? Possible (various reasons possible).

    What is to be considered is, how well was the route known to him (H4 route to Battersea) ?

    He must of carried clearance as there were heavy restrictions in place at “London 2012″…and his Co had work on at “London 2012”.

    It would seem a “white belt” mistake to hit a crane (jib).
    However it is possible. Mist and fog is an issue in flight.
    And that route has it’s specific problems.

    Weather plus icing …?

    It just looks like “Murphy” was out that day…and applied his law.
    It’s a “shit happens” accident.
    But they are rare. Unless he became too “relaxed”….and I can’t see him being relaxed in those conditions.

    But you’d call ahead (“weather” was predicted that day).
    Maybe he just “chanced it”. I don’t know.

    There are bold pilots and there are old pilots.
    But there are never old, bold pilots.

  • Pink

    Tim where were all these cars and bikes before the BMW arrived the builder says the 4×4 and motorbike went along before the BMW we have decided SAH was at the lay-by for a good while before the murder ,BM saw the 4×4 3/5 minutes before he reached the lay-by so where was it inbetween from when it passed the builder untill the murder is a long time.
    The white car if it was ever there must have got there before BM cycled the moulin road or he would have seen it, PD saw nothing anywhere.
    The other thing that sticks out is the changing of BM only seeing SM ahead at the bottom of the hill and not being overtaken because that means BM on his mountain bike must have been gaining on SM on his racing bike or SM stopped somewhere.
    The only other explanation is they were on the different roads and the builder missed seeing which ever one was on his road .
    If the green 4×4 was ONF then we know roughly where it was ,so were they all in the woods ?
    Or maybe at the top car park and thats why the barrier was down.

  • James

    Consider just one point re Al Hilli.
    If that can be explained, then things become clearer.

    The shot to the windscreen.
    How did that happen ? Where was the shooter stood ?

    In the forest ????
    In the carpark ?

    That one shot alone takes some explaining when you think about it.

  • Marlin

    Tim V – yes, you gave very good reasons for positing that the french actively aided the entire operation. All these little details that show a clear attempt at a cover-up – and not a very good one – spell a level of French participation. Like you I don’t believe they did the actual killing but they were cued in by the killers. Perhaps they went along with the deliberate murder of SM but did not realize that the women and SAH were to be killed as well.

    And, as we also agree, there was, it seems, little co-ordination with the Brits. The killers agency may have been running circles around the other intelligence agencies – letting them in on part of the plan but not all of it – probably because they were simply more ruthless than either. in addition, the beauty of this “partial” co-ordination is that it sucked in both british and french, forcing them to participate in the cover-up – because of obvious culpability.

    So which agency could that be – these ruthless brutish killers? these planners of revenge, these afficcionados of black humor?

    There’s really only one such in the world, and my hunch tells me it isn’t the CIA (for Americans, you know, it’s ‘say, chevalin mean what”? “how do you spell Ire exactly – is it something to do with Ire-land?”? people should bear in mind the paucity of vocabulary and general historical knowledge or familiarity with classics that afflict even the most educated in the land of the free – a product of tone of the world’s shallowest educational systems. Any American who ends up CIA would be no exception – no use looking for scholar-warriors among their ranks – cowboys are far more likely (which means they’ll know every name of every college football team, BTW). Sorry for the cynicism but facts are facts (even if there are a few notable stand-outs.

    That doesn’t mean that there wouldn’t be some active CIA participation along the way. That would be a must – especially for the cover-up and for the blackmail needed to keep other agencies from going off the rail.

  • NR

    @ Q 20 Jan, 2013 – 11:43 pm
    “As I’ve said before, the licence plate of the car at the scene of the helicoper crash in London was not visible by the time the story hit the evening TV news. Here’s why: it was “pixelated at source”. I cannot explain why this would be done, as I’ve never seen it done before.”

    Why would they not want one of the cars traced? Is this the same car that had the plate starting with MI5xxx that we saw earlier? Surely MI5 doesn’t drive around with that on their plates? Or maybe they do, to scare people, or if someone has a big secret to tell or sell they can just flag them down. 🙂

    On that same DM page with the pixelated plate, further down, there’s a pic of a GREEN circuit board, unharmed, sitting loose inside a crushed case of whatever electronics it belonged to.

    In the pic with the pixelatled plate, in front of the car, are what appear to be two more GREEN circuit boards. In one of the pics of the finger-search of SAH’s place at Claygate, there’s an old-timey GREEN circuit board sticking part way out of a canvas bag.

    In the page of DM pics, it seems there are too many blue tarps covering things. One appears to be the body of the second victim, but what else needs to be covered?

    In this story you refd, the headline and the first para say he was police, but that’s not followed up anywhere else in the story or bio.
    http://swns.com/news/london-helicopter-crash-pilot-stunt-flyer-police-officer-pete-barnes-30119/

    “Adam Ruck also interviewed Peter Lunn, former spy who skied the Inferno at age 90.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/skiing/peter-lunn-i-was-furious-if-i-didnt-fall-1869278.html

    It was Peter Lunn’s father who founded the Kandahar ski club.

  • Q

    @NR: Maybe there are more than two victims?

    The Japanese yakuza (who have nothing to do with this story) used to drive around in big black American cars, wearing punch perms and missing pinkie fingers. Would anyone want to be seen in a car with MI5XXX plates?

  • straw44berry

    James

    What do you make of this eyewitness account?

    Belinda Moore said she was cycling to work when she saw the helicopter which looked “very odd”.

    She said: “It was flying over Chelsea Bridge and I saw it banking right and very low. I thought it looked very odd. Luckily the road didn’t seem that busy. There was one burned out car next to the helciopter but it looks like a very luck escape for lots of people.”

    From here:-
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vauxhall-helicopter-crash-eyewitnesses-describe-1536849

  • NR

    Check out first pic half-way down. The Saint George’s Wharf logo on the hoarding.
    http://www.anorak.co.uk/345241/news/helicopter-crashes-in-wandsworth-road-london-photos-and-news.html/

    “Celtic coins show the cross held by a rider on a horse and springing a FERN leaf, sometimes identified as a Tree of Life symbol.”

    @ Q: Saint George is the symbol of England. There is a Saint George’s school that figures in another adventure and a False Creek too. As in “Up the creek without a paddle” or “Up the False Creek without a paddle”?

  • bluebird

    The plate number was MI5YYY.
    I did not see it pixelated in the first two days. There were some pictures with half the plate number and other pictures showed the complete plate number. However, i think that this is coincidence because if faked, then nobody would be that stupid to place such a platenumber deliberately for the media. It is like leaving a personal card at the scene like “Greetings from MI5” or “All the Best, MI5” or “Sincerely Yours, MI5”. Would they really do this?

    We do not know the name of the person in that car. Perhaps it was a secretary who worked for MI5 (office is only a few 100 feet from that scene) and that person was proud having this plate number on that car?

    When Barnes worked for the Olympic Games, he must have known that area and that crane by heart. Particularly the Thames in that area was a scene for the marathon. If he had a mechanical problem, then there would have been a lot of possibilities for an emergency landing close to the Thames river particularly on that side of the river.
    I am still thinking of a stinger perhaps missing from the defense system on the roof of the SIS building?

  • NR

    In a comment about the Boeing Dreamliner troubles, there’s this comment – a good explanation of the sometimes importance of mid-level tech workers (like SM and SAH) as opposed to the scientists and top design engineers.

    “Anonymous10:12 PM: Now, I don’t know the exact design and assembly methods but… ”
    http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/sell-boeing-sell-google.html?m=1

    There’s also this on Sandy Hook. A mish-mash of links, many anti-Jew comments, but goes to Bluebird’s theory about two factions of the CIA fighting.
    http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/sandy-hook-turf-war-jewish-couple-lanza.html?m=1

  • NR

    @ Q 21 Jan, 2013 – 3:07 am
    “@NR: Maybe there are more than two victims?”
    “The Japanese yakuza (who have nothing to do with this story) used to drive around in big black American cars, wearing punch perms and missing pinkie fingers. Would anyone want to be seen in a car with MI5XXX plates?

    Am I a near-psychic or what? Bluebird say the number is MI5YYY. I was only one off.

    Vanity plate is a good idea. Also, in the Gareth Williams story, they emphasised Vauxhall was big for gay places. What if a person of importance was doing something pre-work in an area they should not have been in at all? They’d ask a favor to have their number blanked.

    Have 1 friend who’s both yakuza and AB by heritage. Still has all digits and neither punch perm or buzz cut, but good to know for connections if small favors needed – not big ones.

  • bluebird

    Probably off topic, but

    I posted last week that MI5/MI6 agents are still called “horses” due to their creator and first “modern” MI5/6 chief Sir Stewart Menzies (after WW1) who came from the “Horse Guards”. (see wikipedia).

    Heroin slang:

    1) bicycles:
    Talwin (pentazocine) and PBZ (pyribenzamine) used as a heroin substitute

    2) red rum
    potent form of heroin (“mur-der” spelled backward)

    3) horse
    heroin

    Lyrics:

    Heroin (The White Horse)

    Behold my friend, I am Heroin 
    Known by all as the destroyer of men …
    From where I came, no one knows
    A far away place where the poppies grow …

     I came to this country without getting caught
    And since that day I have been hunted and sought … 
    Whole nations have gathered to plot my destruction
    They call me the breeder of crime and corruption … 

    I am more potent than whisky, more deadly than wine
    Yes, I am the scourge of all mankind … 
    My little white grains are nothing but waste, 
    I am soft and fluffy and bitter to taste …

     I am white, I am brown, but deadly to use, 
    For once your addicted, I really abuse …
     I am known in Thailand, Iraq and Iran 
    I am welcome in Turkey and have been to Japan … 

    In cellophane bags I make my way,
    To men in offices and children at play …
    From heads of state to the lowest bum
     From the richest estate to the lowest of scum … 

    I take a rich man and make him poor,
    I take a maiden and make her a whore … 
    Make a beautiful women forget her looks,
    And make a student forget his books … 

    I can make you steal, lie borrow and beg, 
    Then search for a vein in your arm or your leg …
     I am known to be selfish and can fill you with greed 
    Still faceless, regardless of religion or creed … 

    My gift is illusion, my blessing is fake
     Death and destruction follow my wake …
     I am the kiss of death to all whom I touch
     I start as a gift and remain as a crutch … 

    My friends are many, but I am loyal to none
     I come to destroy, my work will be done … 
    Some think of me merely a toy,
     But wise men know I aim to destroy …

     Run from me if you wish, I will never give chase 
    For sooner or later you will return for a taste … 
    Once in your bloodstream, you’ll think me not mean 
    You will praise me as master, then nod in a dream … 

    You have heard my warning but will take no heed,
    Put your foot in the stirrup, mount this great steed … 
    Get right in the saddle and hold on real well,
    For the “White Horse” Heroin will take you to Hell … 

    See also:

    http://www.eurasianet.org/node/65702

    http://ourecho.com/story-7758-A-Forgotten-Korean-War-Horse-Heroine.shtml

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