The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Here’s another thing I dont get !
BM leaves the scene alone and runs into PD et al.
Check.
BM returns with PD et al AFTER PD makes the call.
PD in his car, which he turns around for a quick getaway.
BM “walks” with his bike.
Check (ish).
Then what ?
The “Fire Brigade” pass BM on the way up the hill, without stopping.
What about the Fire Brigade passing his car on that road ?
Did they just leave the girl behind for the Fire Brigade ?
Why would an innkeeper go off on an adventure in the mountains, when the innkeeper specializes in welcoming cyclists, and a big bicycling competition was occurring in the area? Wouldn’t the opportunity to make some money before the winter be incentive to stay in place, unless someone else was minding the shop?
Very interesting history Olifant
3 Feb, 2013 – 10:41 pm – thanks. Do I understand Martinet is the location of and gets its name from not the bird as we perhaps thought but the hammer driven by water power from the diverted stream? This of course got me thinking about iconography and particularly Thor the hammer god of ancient norse and Viking period much revered during the Third Reich. It is said the swastika is derived from hammer imagery. Then we have the Swedish link with mother in law Suhalia Iqbal and her apparently violent and hospitalized son. (Incidentally it’s not that easy to get sectioned in England. We have heard nothing about he came to be here or what he did to be so quickly admitted to a mental hospital, presumably against his will) Then we have the links both in Sweden and France through Iqbal and Sylvain respectively to the nation/socialist (?) political party, possibly harping back to facist ideology and world view. Then we have the longstanding connection with ballistic missiles, space exploration and satellites with the Thor family of American rockets that stretch from the earliest experiments to present day.
There are lots of Thor fables involving the all-powerful god renowned for his devastating hammer, shaking the mountains with earthquake and thunder. He epitomised the northern european races resistance to the spread of christianity after the fall of Rome up to the later middle ages. Here is one of them.
WIKI: “Thor is the main character of Hárbarðsljóð, where, after traveling “from the east”, he comes to an inlet where he encounters a ferryman who gives his name as Hárbarðr (Odin, again in disguise), and attempts to hail a ride from him. The ferryman, shouting from the inlet, is immediately rude and obnoxious to Thor and refuses to ferry him. At first, Thor holds his tongue, but Hárbarðr only becomes more aggressive, and the poem soon becomes a flyting match between Thor and Hárbarðr, all the while revealing lore about the two, including Thor’s killing of several jötnar in “the east” and berzerk women on Hlesey (now the Danish island of Læsø). In the end, Thor ends up walking instead.”
I have absolutely no idea if this is relevant to the Hilli/Mollier murders but we have given scant consideration to the possibility of them being rooted in Scandinavia. Recent events there certainly provide both possible rationale and zenaphobia to permit mass murder, and to an extent inexplicable delay by police that have prompted some to pose uncomfortable questions. The endemic silence has certainly included the Swedish authorities who have shown willingness both in the Assange case and others, to work closely with American policy makers. Sweden ofter gets overlooked by virtue of its liberal reputation which may well cover a much darker side. What is clear to me, is that whoever was the motivating force for this attack, they are allies of France. I am sure France would have taken a totally different approach and position, had they believed it had been executed by an enemy power – though these days it is often difficult to tell who is for us and who is against us.
@All: http://www.innsite.com/inns/B011097.html
Verthier, where have I heard that name before? I remember that Linda and Michael Mastro lived at three different addresses in the area before they were caught. One was a guest house.
Here are the launch sites for parapentes in the Doussard area:
http://www.maison-du-moulin.co.uk/Annecy-Sites-files/paragliding%20sites%20in%20the%20Annecy%20region.htm
http://www.cascadeparaglidingclub.org/pages/annecy.php
@James: With the width of those roads, it would be hard for any vehicles to pass without one or the other backing up and pulling into a driveway.
Correction above: “mother-in-law Suhaila al-Allaf, 74,” of course though the connection is still through wife Iqbal.
It would have been quite possible for a parapentiste to spot unusual activity on the ground, and possibly hear gunshots, if the wind blew in the right direction. Strictly an example of what can be seen from the air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z871eIUnjMg&feature=player_embedded
From Facebook, three days ago:
https://fr-fr.facebook.com/philippe.didierjean.1
At Pink
4 Feb, 2013 – 8:13 am You will no doubt have noticed in your quote the Green 4×4 is travelling TOWARDS the murder scene, so as I have pointed out from the beginning, we have WBM reported as saying he saw it twice at exactly the killing time. If reliable this MUST make this the killer’s vehicle, if for no other reason that no other vehicles are seen by anyone apart from SL’s white 206 and the motor cyclist.
Then you have Maillaud’s inexplicable request for the 4×4 driver to come forward when later, much later, he tells us it was a foestry vehicle, he’s identified it and ruled it out! Totally incredible because if it had been a forestry vehicle and not involved, he would have known immediately. This quasi-police force could have done none other that report their location immediately they knew of the murder not weeks later.
Regarding that rear rh flat tyre is confirmed by the trailer photo. If he was always pumping it up at the camp site we must presume it had a slow puncture which may be enough to explain it being flat. The alternative explanations are a bullet or damage from spinning though the rear lh seems to have survived. All the pictograms show bullets in a group by the rear rh door though another shows cartridges scattered everywhere. Both the location of Mollier’s body and bullet cases shown in those early cartoons presumably originated from police sources. Neither are reliable.
As to the question you pose “@Tim – I wonder what Sm’s family wanted the locals to be discrete about was SM playing away from home upsetting someone’s husband, that might be a motive.” Of course there is also the corollary of Mollier’s partner who may have been “playing away”. Indeed a Canadian friend of mine postulated a whole scenario around the idea that WBM was the shooter, motivated by jealousy and the Al hilli’s as witnesses – a step too far for even me I’m afraid.
I would however point out (again) the speed with which Martin was announced as innocent bystander and hero of the hour. It was included in the very first reports that might even have pre-dated his and Didierjeans extended interview. As person first on the scene, possible even contemporaneous with it, in all normal police enquiries he would have been a principal suspect. Early reports might be expected to convey the fact that a person had discovered the situation, but to authoritively state he was not only a first aider but a “hero” before it had been reliably established who he was and what he was doing there? No. This is an old trick. Create a hero – the papers love a hero story. It is there to distract attention from the circumstances. It is planted ahead of time as part of the story line which of course reveals something else.
The French knew that Martin would also be there. He was a known part of a planned operation, though I still don’t think the British expected the exact outcome, nor perhaps even the French, who were in a sense “hoisted by their own petard”. however they did expect Martin to be there and could announce his role with some confidence before even the the police had established who he really was. Of course it all rather fell apart when Martin failed to back up the official story line. Was “Didierjean” a totally made-up persona drafted in to fill the gaps in the story line thus produced. Or was he real but Martin’s French opposite number. Or was he a genuine witness. We don’t know, but again despite being described as “living locally” we can find no record of him which isn’t very encouraging. Nor have his two female comnpanions been identified. Were the two women intended for two children perhaps? And now we have an American computer man called John Didier dying in suspicious circumstances on the Norfolk Broads. Obviously murder and suicide. “Move along there please”.
@Q
Someone earlier linked to this fella who seems a better match – check out the interests activities sports etc.
https://www.facebook.com/phil.dejean
Without going all CT – I would love to know when he set his background picture to be The Three Monkeys!
Or are we being led up the garden path?
The only thing I would ask James
4 Feb, 2013 – 10:35 am is that if Mollier WAS on a mountain bike, who does the racing bike (or at least narrow tyred bike) on the back of the removal lorry belong to and where/how did Mollier’s bike get removed? As far as we know (unless Al Hilli had a bike on the roof and we have no confirmation one way or the other on the car or back at the caravan) we have only two bikes on site, Mollier’s and Martin’s. We don’t know what Martin’s bike was but an off roader is a reasonable assumption. This would rule his out on the lorry so linked with the family story about his new £4000 racer I think we must assume it’s Mollier’s racer on the lorry.
NR
4 Feb, 2013 – 12:28 pm I have to tell you NR that although in theory Catholism and Masonry are mutually exclusive, this is not always the case in practise. I know because an aquaintance of mine was both as was a cousin of his. He invited me to join but I declined. He was a very nice chap who secumbed to a fatal condition prematurely some years ago and is sadly missed. I am not sure how much the respective sides were in the know or how he reconciled the two intellectually and emotionally.
Bluebird
4 Feb, 2013 – 12:44 pm re. http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A2ICETPSQR46SG/
“Katie A. Creegan
Location: Glendale, AZ United States
Wish List
We’re sorry! This list contains items that are no longer in our catalog.”
ME – Explanation? Is this clean-up?
Felix
Thanks for the Tracy Didier mylife copy.
So we have a link between the very young Katie Annette Creegan and the Didier family as both of them lived for some time in Glendale AZ.
Relinking Max’s timeline ani that he did on MZT it is based on the killer being the mototcycle which is not certain and using available known times.
Onf’s position is not certain until the sighting of a green 4×4 and MC by BM ,that would be when they were supposed to be escorting bike off the hill I assume they would not need to stop it at all if it was on a road allowing traffic so it must have been on the other road’s.
Onf stop bike and escort after the murder getting back onto Combe d’ire below parking.
He managed to make it fit with a play of seconds .
Its a guide to use as someone may be able to refine if any more information comes along it would be a shame to lose his hard work.
Max if your reading come onto here .
http://makeagif.com/i/wA1P9X
Tim v
I don’t see any conspiracy with the amazon.com website. Those wish lists were from 2000/2001 and some products are no longer available. There is the other link where she wishes doll houses. There are some still available, some are not. In that other wish list probably there was only one item and that is no longer available. I posted the second one only because it says glendale, az. So no clran team i guess. They did not even delete her complete twitter accounts. Just 6 weeks were deleted from twitter. Perhaps they did not expect us to find her.
Ministry of Truth, truth updates, media manipulation. It happens. Governments and media do it more often. Orwell’s times have come.
This event is not related to this blog but it shows how they are doing this everywhere.
Read carefully! James will laugh.
http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/alitalia-disgusting.cfm
When they paint crashed airlines and change numbers and logos on that plane, why not give away false photos, false names, false stories to media? Do we know whether or not the photo of Saad al Hilli shows Saad al Hilli? That’s the problem. We live in times where they fake us the so called truth. This is disgusting.
Not sure you have the sequence quite in accord with PD’s Parisien account Q
4 Feb, 2013 – 6:23 pm. He reported that when he met WBM the latter was in a panic and tried to explain in pigeon French, but we get the impression after this initial contact that he immediately reverted to english to help him out, so I don’t necessarily see a problem with him speaking English to Zainab, nor as an amateur (?) using a “clap test”. However the disparities on when he phoned and the fact that “blood on the hands” was added subsequently after the issue had been raised here, and its dubious nature as Martin stated he was wearing gloves is more worrying as is having stated he had dragged Mollier who must have been heavily bloodied, it would have been likely that his cycling clothes would have been contaminated and been more worthy of notice by Didierjean. These two characters appeared once in a very controlled manner and then disappeared from public view. A very big question mark hangs over the credibility of both of them.
@Bluebird
Can you do some more research on MR Shoppi/motorbike services you are better at it than me I am getting some very confusing results and finding it difficult to sort the wood from the trees ,does he supply oil coal charcoal and finance ?
Regarding my alitalia “cover” link:
It looks as this is usual since a few years. maybe james can tell us something.
http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1026785/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled-(WDL-Aviation)/Fokker-F-27-200-Friendship/1153792/?
Pink
I must have missed something. You probably meant Shopi.
http://m.les-horaires.fr/74210/Doussard/Shopi-38-Rue-fontaines,175174.html
But what exactly would you like to know?
Pink
I dont know what you want to know but maybe that is helpful:
Read the second yellow answer of the owner in the reviews section:
http://www.homeaway.co.uk/reviews/p9702
thanks for explaining Bluebird
4 Feb, 2013 – 11:02 pm. As you know I am a complete novice at this clever search stuff thats why i stick to modus operandi lol
I have figured it out now I had to translate back into french.
56 Rue du Charbon
74210 Doussard, France
and
shopi 38 Rue des Fontaines
74210 Doussard, France
From BB’s link http://www.homeaway.co.uk/reviews/p9702
El Kemao Brasserie (with its wi-fi internet access}
However Bluebird
4 Feb, 2013 – 11:44 pm Assange is right – the internet has changed everything. Never before has the official script been so open to debate and challenge. That is why governments are so fearful of it and want to control it. No doubt the Hilli/Mollier murders would have been done and dusted by now were it not for this thing.
Oh and interestingly I found myself blocked on this 9/11 site today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2LxmESkV0Q&feature=em-comment_reply_received&lcor=1&lch=email_reply&lc=j2ziHKLQn31tNxTOrAZkr6J5CKYDFOSGTLxXN7OjsE8 Someone appears to be following my posts.
Thanks Bluebird I will have to go to bed its very late there is never enough time for this searching lark especially with a slow connection and thanks for all the searching that you do .
Bluebird.
Well the Italian’s are pretty well “known” as mental.
Unofficially I have a “friend” and he would tell you how he has sat recently in Milano holding a delay (fog) and over the radio has listened with another captain to these mad monkeys trying to get down.
The fact that they “tried” is crazy.
Their radio “chatter” whilst trying these approaches (one had a missed approach, but came again) was another thing to behold.
I would say their (this) latest “stunt” is unbelievable.
Alas…of them, I doubt it is that unbelievable.
As for the “actual” carrier involved !
Unshocked !!!
You ask is this common practice.
Yes ! And it is frightening.
The other photo is of a plane that came into Birmingham last year.
That was also “leased”, I understand to Monarch.
What happens is that they have “over capacity” and therefore “lease” an aircraft AND crew.
Oddly THAT Birmingham incident is quite bizarre.
Shortly after that incident I was told by another pilot that had been onboard “that” schedule a few weeks earlier….as a pax
He had flown into Birmingham (a native of that area I believe) and had noted that the aircraft he was on (operated by that Company !) had missed the “usual” taxiway to the terminal/parking.
Further, I will add.
Whilst “deadheading” home, I departed London Heathrow (or another UK airport, I forget).
As I had been dropped of early, I was enjoying my “pre flight cigarette” outside and happened to be listening into a conversation between two chaps…as you do.
They were enjoying a post flight cigarette. (Actually for them a cigar).
To be brief….clearly they were “fellow” pilots and one was explaining to the other that he thought it wise to head to the airfield (not the airport where we were at) and to “check out” the aircraft (held in storage) before they flew it the next day.
He said (paraphrased) that he thought it wise to do so…as it (the aircraft) had been stood for 12 mths…and had only been powered up (engine start) 6 mths ago.
I pity the poor “gits” that had to climb into that particular plane for their “two weeks in the sun”.
For my part. I have “nearly” had that experience once before.
Being asked to board a very old MD81 WITHOUT markings.
I, on realising that ths was no ordinary “code share”, refused.
I don’t doubt (although do not know) the PIC or SIC abilities to fly, however for me….it’s maintainance.
Without knowing who or how it has been maintained, I refuse to “fly” crates like that.
Apologies for the long post !
And again !
That aircraft had been going since 1997 under an American reg.
It was Withdrawn in Jan 2012 and Stored.
It re entered service Dec 2012 when it was re registered and leased from Carpatair by Alitalia.
So what’s that. A little over one month of flying ?
And the main undercarriage gives in !
Like I said above.
Sure the guys maybe able to fly (hours on type ????).
But what about maintainance ????
Throw the book at them I say. It’s a disgrace.
Birmingham incident.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/21/birmingham-airport-flights-suspended
Aurela Airlines (Lithuanian) onbehalf of Monarch
Tim V
The mystery of the racing bike !
Who’s was it indeed.
Well we have heard that Mollier had one. So yes, could be his.
But Mr Mayor said “…or another mountain biker” in his Wrong Time Wrong Place speech.
That is a pretty specific term.
Who was he refering to ? Mollier ? Martin ? Al Hilli ?
It was said through a translator.
But could a translator confuse “cyclist” with “mountain” ?
You say (and we have all seen) that there is a bike on the transporter. That bike is on the transporter WITH the BMW.
Do they go together ?
I suppose it would be difficult for a “wrap” to go over the car…and a bike mounted above.
It would be reasonable to assume you’d remove it.
Take the “police” view.
They require us to believe Mollier was lost or on the wrong route.
The rumour is that he was on his racing bike.
We say that if he was on a “racer” and up the Combe D’Ire, then this “proves” he was there to meet SAH.
But lets say Mollier was on a Mountain Bike.
The police say he was lost.
We’d say….but this cannot be so. His route now seems logical.
To Chevaline, up the Combe D’Ire and down the tracks homewards.
That’s a circular route. And a well known one.
Put another way, why is it best for Mollier to “be lost” ?
Well, you have to be darn lucky to ambush a lost bloke.
As lucky as a lone nut perhaps !
Lets take another leap here. And it may answer the question that’s been bugging me since this started.
What if Al Hilli had a bike mounted on the roof rack.
And the transporter arrives to remove the car.
The police have the keys to the car….but the key to the bike mount isn’t on the car keys.
Would it be possible for the rail to break whilst someone is trying to remove the bike mounted on that rack ???
So we have a third bike on the transporter (SAH’s) and a BMW on the transporter (also SAH’s) and it has a broken roof rack where said bike had been (the crime scene picture).
Remember the police haven’t said anything about the roof rack.
All they have said is that Mollier was “on the wrong route”.
And that was given to them by …… !