The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Interesting piece below. It confirms what many of us had written here before:
“Work for us and we care for you and we’re going to provide you the ‘don’t go into jail’ card, sincerely yours MI5 and CIA”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/exclusive-how-mi5-blackmails-british-muslims-1688618.html
The men claim they were given a choice of working for the Security Service or face detention and harassment in the UK and overseas.
Three of the men say they were detained at foreign airports on the orders of MI5 after leaving Britain on family holidays last year.
After they were sent back to the UK, they were interviewed by MI5 officers who, they say, falsely accused them of links to Islamic extremism. On each occasion the agents said they would lift the travel restrictions and threat of detention in return for their co-operation. When the men refused some of them received what they say were intimidating phone calls and threats.Two other Muslim men say they were approached by MI5 at their homes after police officers posed as postmen. Each of the five men, aged between 19 and 25, was warned that if he did not help the security services he would be considered a terror suspect. A sixth man was held by MI5 for three hours after returning from his honeymoon in Saudi Arabia. He too claims he was threatened with travel restrictions if he tried to leave the UK.
Mr Elmi further alleges: “Katherine tried to threaten me by saying, and it still runs through my mind now: ‘Remember, this won’t be the last time we ever meet.’ And then during our last conversation she explained: ‘If you do not want anything to happen to your family you will co-operate.'”
Madhi Hashi, a 19-year-old care worker from Camden, claims he was held for 16 hours in a cell in Djibouti airport on the orders of MI5. He alleges that when he was returned to the UK on 9 April this year he was met by an MI5 agent who told him his terror suspect status would remain until he agreed to work for the Security Service. He alleges that he was to be given the job of informing on his friends by encouraging them to talk about jihad.
When people are terrorised by the very same body that is meant to protect them, sowing fear, suspicion and division, we are on a slippery slope to an Orwellian society.
“They got him to confess to the homicides, and they say, ‘Let’s write it down,’ and he starts writing it down. He goes to get a cigarette or something and then he goes off the deep end,” the second official said. “I don’t know what triggered him, and he goes after the agent.”
The official said Mr. Todashev had something in his hand, “a knife or a pipe or something.”
It was not certain who, or how many officers, had fired on Mr. Todashev. Nor was it clear why, with at least three law enforcement officials in the room, deadly force was used on someone without a firearm in his hands. Asked, one law enforcement official said: “If somebody jumps on you and you have a gun, and you don’t do something, the gun will quickly come into play.”
There was no indication on Wednesday why Mr. Todashev — who, like the Tsarnaevs, was an ethnic Chechen — would have implicated himself and Mr. Tsarnaev in the murders. Investigators, who are seeking to determine how Mr. Tsarnaev made money, have been looking into whether Mr. Todashev and Mr. Tsarnaev were drug dealers, one of the law enforcement officials said.
Mr. Todashev had not signed a written statement about the Waltham murders before he was fatally shot. “He had only said it orally but had not signed anything,” said the first official. “But that was where it appeared to be heading.”
Man Linked to Boston Suspect Is Shot Dead – NYTimes.com
http://www.nytimes.com
Perhaps it’s worth noting that (before he got shot (obviously)) he started writing his “confession” to murder. This is not in the Police Station but in the sitting room of his home! This simply would not be done. As soon as the police believed he might be a murderer, they would have arrested him and taken him in. Before any written confession he would have been read his “Miranda Rights” without which the statement would have been inadmissible in any proceedings. Nor did he have a lawyer present. Then despite there being several burly (we presume) FBI and policemen in the room, instead of restraining the unarmed man, they shoot him, the explanation for which is quite pathetic. It takes time to pull a gun in such a situation so was it already pointing at him? If so it would appear he was being coerced into confessing a murder and implicating someone else. How can this behaviour be condoned or excused by the legal authorities? Finally if Todashev had started writing the confession but not signed it, let it be produced for all to see.
America appears to approve of police shooting dead unarmed detainees. After Woolwich it appears we may be trying to emulate them.
Marlin
25 May, 2013 – 8:47 pm thanks for your appreciative remarks. the list of incongruities were just “off the top of my head”. They may be significant, they may not. However what I find disturbing these days is how frequently these peculiarities appear to be happening here and elsewhere and how we seem to be aping America’s bad habits. What is driving this policy of “shoot to kill”, of politicising and nationalising the police, of turning them into a quasi military force? Are we sure we know who are the goodies and who are the badies?
BB’s excerpt about previous similar violence in that area of London not only flags up the deeply engrained nature of the problem but also the big contrast in the way this one was reported. This time it was immediately a “terrorist attack”.
It was particularly brutal and directed at a serving soldier, who incidentally appeared to be in civilian casual clothes not uniform, and one of the attackers did a rather “hammy” rant to camera but otherwise what distinguished it from the other knife attacks to be so labelled?
I think it may say more about the Government, which could have played it down rather than playing it up, than it does the perpetrators. It seems suspiciously like it was using it for political purposes. Lets hope to god, in best American fashion, they did not have a part in setting it (or something like it) up.
And yes Marlin I truly am concerned about NR. Would Craig Murry have registered his contact details so that an enquiry could be made for example? He always denied being a spook or spokesperson of such, though of course a spook would, wouldn’t he?
Tim V, 1:23 AM. I think I may be able to put your mind at ease – I went to check and NR posted at the MZT blog on the 21st of May (a good while after stopping to post here – and there). I am pretty sure it’s the same NR (by their own admission). So, chances are NR just doesn’t wish to post here for the moment. I will not hazzard a guess for the reason – could be people lose interest or suddenly have nothing more to say, though somehow this doesn’t quite jive with this poster’s wide ranging interests.
in any case, they are definitely still going at it over at MZT – getting tied up in the same knots over and over – from different directions. They have a poster called Peter who, I think, has figured out that a cover-up is staring us in the face, and that there must be a reason for that – everything else has to be explained against this background. Marilyn has convinced herself SM was the target and AH collateral and she attributes the lack of progress by Eric Cloussaeu to “political pressures”. Ah, were that the be and all of this case. After all, the french political pressure does not explain the British participation in the cover-up, or the Swedes lack of interest, or the lack of photos. Other posters on that board are quite good, but for some reason decided to treat Chevalin as an mystery crime, if under somewhat unusual circumstances. I cannot fathom why such obviously logical people refuse to consider the possibility of state agency participation, though this must obviously be one of the possibilities, which, at the very least cannot be ruled out. May be I’ll head on over there and ask them (hope they don’t run me off). No way i can participate in two boards however, which is why I didn’t want to get carried away. Anyways, am not making any promises.
I will bring over later a comment they had on their board from a “Psychic and psychological profiler” from way back. That was an astute person, rraising many of the questions we have struggled with here.
Here’s the NYT link from a psychologist calling basically all conspiracy theorists “irrational”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/magazine/why-rational-people-buy-into-conspiracy-theories.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all
This is an interesting whitewash. Interesting because of what it reveals about the mind set that seeks to rope together all critical thinkers into a single category of “conspiracy theorists”..
Interesting also because using the criteria of this ‘article” Newton was a conspiracy theorist, for sure. No wonder the catholic church ruined Galileo’s last years – such a conspiracy theorist he was! I mean he questioned things in a way that undermined church dogma – clearly an unhinged conspiracy theorist.
What i wonder about is the NYT’s decision to publish such an unbelievably shallow article – tarring one and all with the same generic verbiage. But then, I recall that NYT was one publication that bought hook, line and sinker into the WMD claims in Iraq. Weren’t those of us who pointed the unrelenting efforts by such an august publication to tar and feather doubters, including the inspector hans Blix – branded as conspiracy minded?
Read this article and fume – it’s good for the heart, supposedly. Fuming that is. occasionally.
Marlin
“Conspiracy theorists” and so called “truthers” will be the next targets. Those who oppose the official propaganda do not have a right to live in fascist states. They are enemies by definition.
Google is forced by a new law to delete links to sites that are a danger for security, show support for terror or contain endangerous information for military, security and law enforcement agents.
The consequences of such removal will be a future zero chance to find evidence and even links to sites like CM could get removed from google and from other search machines.
Any opposition of government propaganda and any evidence for government lies might endanger a government. Take it as it is: Sites like this one will get removed from google search indexes soon and will be treated as dangerous sites.
Orwell, Winston jailed. Your Ministry of Truth.
Significant sentence from my post/link “Bluebird 26 May, 2013 – 12:05 am”
He alleges that he was to be given the job of informing on his friends by encouraging them to talk about jihad.
Now wasnt that exactly what we knew about Saad was doing online (as we were told by his friends)?
Adebowale was almost stabbed to death when he was 16 and fighting for the Woolwich Boys gang. His friend was dead and Adebowale seriously injured by …… hold your breath …. an MMA fighter.
More coincidence. Gang leader Michael Rigby from Kissimmee (Orlando). Sic!
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4941607/Lee-Rigby-killer-No2-was-knifed-in-neck-at-a-crack-den-aged-just-16.html
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-11-01/news/os-michael-rigby-escape-sentencing-20121101_1_michael-rigby-poinciana-bloods-circuit-judge-scott-polodna
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-11-02/news/os-michael-rigby-psychiatric-drugs-20111102_1_michael-rigby-regenia-ralph-circuit-judge-scott-polodna
I have no idea whether or not Michael and Lee Rigby are somehow related. However, Rigby, Orlando/Kissemmee, MMA, drugs relations of all Tsarnaev, Todashev and Adebowale, muslim terror (alleged), secret service connections, parents working for government, ……. is it all just coincidence and strange conspuracy? What’s the mathematical likelyhood of everything being coincidence here?
@Marlin 26 May, 2013 – 5:29 am
I think you’re being a little hard on the posters at MZT, they have some good arguments, but just like us on here, there is so little concrete evidence to go on.
I am quite happy to admit to the possibility this was some nefarious dastardly deed by some political or quasi security organisation, but it does seem that whoever was responsible wanted SM very dead, and equally am unable to rule out a crime de passion.
Anyway, MZT herself is a quite well known journalist and crime writer in her own right, so a focus on Chevaline as a crime mystery is not entirely unexpected.
Good summary:
http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/26/woolwich-attack-michael-adebolajo
Ezzouek told the Observer that one of the British agents warned him: “For your people, there’s no such things as solicitors, lawyers; you’re another breed.”
Well, …… fascists! What else?
Still, there are too many coincidences and too many relations in regards to the recent events. They somehow fit all together.
Can we find a relation between that Nigerian scammer who tried to access the Saad al Hilli account and the Nigerian Woolwich Boys Gang and their muslim hate preacher boss Choudary (who is said to be working for MI5 due to some sources).
I have looked into MZT a couple of times in the past, but I can’t get into it somehow. Perhaps it is their refusal to see what is staring them in the face. Perhaps it is their crime-fiction-rose-tinted-spectacles? Am so pleased to hear your reassurances about NR though I still can’t fathom why he would stop posting here with so many things going on, some right on his Canadian doorstep. Seems very out of character somehow. It’s good to know censorship
is up and running. I posted my observations on a a Huffington Post Theresa May item on Facebook and it lasted precisely 30 seconds!
Sorry Marlin
26 May, 2013 – 5:29 am – that was intended for you.
Marlin
26 May, 2013 – 9:21 am and they can’t see the irony that all American/UK policy since 9/11 is based upon “conspiracy theory”. Just that their conspiracies are different to ours. When the US government comes up with convincing explanations for the cogent scientific objections to the official line, I shall stop believing Government generated, non-Muslim conspiracy that involves the willing participation of a reputedly “free” press.
Adebowale’s gang friends who were killed by Lee James were Afghans!
(Read below, found the old story).
Killer MMA fighter Lee James.
Killed: Afghan guy.
Seriously injured: Adebowale.
Just coincidence: new victim Lee James Rigby, soldier previously on duty in Afghanistan.
Why would Lee James accuse Adebowale and the Afghan being al Qaida members? Was it just crack that made him think that?
Why would Lee James say that a 16 years old (!!) asked him to blow up a supermarket with a bomb? Crack? Possible.
Were Adebowale and the Afghan MI5 assests before?
The more connections we find, the more crazy this plot gets.
Quotes:
Prosecutor Tony Leonard told his murder trial: “He told others he believed the men in the flat were supporters of al-Qaeda and that they had offered him money to act as a suicide bomber to blow up the nearby Bluewater Shopping Centre.”Adebowale, whose nickname was Tobi, was left “shaken to the core” according to a former pal, who said last night: “Tobi was lucky to survive that night.”It was a near-death experience. He watched his mate die.
The would-be robber — armed with a knife — went berserk, screaming: “You want to ruin my country, you want to blow up my country, you want to sell drugs in my country. This is what you get.”Chum Faridon Alizada, 18 — whose nickname was “Fighter” — was killed. Adebowale and another stabbed 16-year-old only just survived.Knifeman Lee James, 32 — a bare-knuckle fighter arrested after the bloodbath in Erith, Kent — was caged for life at the Old Bailey.Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4941607/Lee-Rigby-killer-No2-was-knifed-in-neck-at-a-crack-den-aged-just-16.html#ixzz2UP9WUlRb
http://www.murdermap.co.uk/pages/cases/case.asp?CID=921754505&VID=128
Bare-knuckle fighter Lee James stabbed teenager Faridon Alizada to death in a drug-fuelled frenzy and then claimed the victim was a terrorist.James was high on cocaine when he murdered the 18 year-old and knifed his two 16 year-old friends at a crack den in Erith, Kent.He burst into the flat screaming: ‘You f*****g Somalians, you want to ruin my country, you want to blow up my country, you want to sell drugs in my country. This is what you get.’The three victims, two of whom were Afghani, were all affiliated with the notorious south London street gang the ‘Woolwich Boys’.They dealt drugs from a one-bedroom flat in Verona House, Larner Road, Erith, and James was a regular customer before the attack on January 5, 2008.James burst into the flat swearing and demanding money, before stabbing Faridon (pictured, right), who was known as ‘Fighter’ in the chest.One of the 16-year-old victims, who was stabbed in the back and shoulder, said James ‘lost the plot’ and started ranting about Somalians before lashing out with the knife.The second 16-year-old was stabbed in the neck, with the blade penetrating his spine, and spent months in hospital recovering.James, who also used the last names Peacock and Cantwell, later told acquaintances that he had robbed, murdered and stabbed the occupants of the flat.He claimed the men in the flat were supporters of Al Qaeda and that they had offered him money to act as a suicide bomber to blow up the nearby Bluewater Shopping Centre.James later insisted he was suffering from a drug induced ‘psychotic episode’ and had no memory of the incident.Jurors at Southwark Crown Court found him guilty of murder, and he admitted two counts of wounding with intent.Judge Anthony Pitts jailed James for life and ordered him to serve a minimum of 26 years before being considered for release by the parole board.He said: ‘No words of the court can really help in this situation but in so far as it does, the family has the court’s condolences and I feel for them and their loss.’Faced with Lee James, who had already stabbed the first teenager by plunging the carving knife with some force into the back of his neck- a blow which felled him almost immediately- Faridon had the extraordinary courage to attempt to confront James, not only to protect himself but also to protect the two others.‘It was a hopeless mismatch, he was unarmed, he was 18-years of age and he was facing a man who we have subsequently heard had a history of violence and had experience as a professional bare knuckle fighter.‘The evidence suggests that even with him knifed by at least one of the two fatal wounds he suffered, he continued to try and stand up to Lee James.‘But he was literally cut to pieces by Lee James who went on to stab a third man, fortunately not as seriously.’Judge Pitts said James (pictured left) had a ‘propensity towards violence’ and at times appeared to ‘positively enjoy violence and get a buzz out of it’.‘He is a man who has had a significant history of taking class A drugs including crack, heroin and cannabis. His drug of choice is cocaine, which he consumes a very considerable quantity of from time to time.‘It certainly seems to me that it has an effect on his ability to control himself and exacerbates his propensity and enjoyment of violence.’In a victim impact statement, Farsdon’s father Habib Alizada said he ‘felt like a storm had come over him’ since his son’s death.Mr Alizada said he had been ‘distressed to hear his son referred to as Fighter’ and to Al Qaeda, as these were the reasons he took his family away from Afghanistan.
“Lone wolves” to explain killings and increased surveillance, seem all the rage (excuse the pun) these days. In the case of Chevaline, the wolves were not only flagged up as a danger, but were also protected.
Tim V
“America appears to approve of police shooting dead unarmed detainees. After Woolwich it appears we may be trying to emulate them”.
Tim…a tad harsh there mate. Don’t make this forum a forum of “loons”.
In London it seems that SOP’s were at last followed.
The police held back and they awaited “Armed Response”.
Clearly these two a***h***s wanted to take a few more with them.
That day, they picked the wrong police unit.
A “torso shot” is a shot designed to make “them” rethink….and/or “stop them”.
“To fast for the head ? Go for the body”
As a “budding pilot” trying to get his hours up, you can work in some very strange places. And as a person NOT trained in “fire arms” but having had the “joy” of carrying one when the need was there (or they said it was there, “so take it with you”) that piece of advice is often issued by the “company man” (or charity organization) to young “haven’t got a clue” pilots.
So just “back off” with the harsh comments with regards to the actions of the police officers concerned that day.
‘The evidence suggests that even with him knifed by at least one of the two fatal wounds he suffered, he continued to try and stand up to Lee James.‘But he was literally CUT TO PIECES by Lee James who went on to stab a third man, fortunately not as seriously.
So he was cut to pieces by “Lee James”?
And Adebowale cuts “Lee James” Rigby to pieces now?
This is getting more weird and strange the more i find.
And now watch that, too:
http://wikimapia.org/14551018/Verona-House
Read the first comment. Why here? What relation does this Verona House have?
Verona house is the house where Adebowale and the Afghan drug dealer were stabbed with the Afghan leaving dead in 2008. Their flat for drug dealing was there.
Finally, why was Abedowale never sentenced to jail when he was a drug dealer? Just because he was stabbed there was no court and no judge? Weird!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10080837/Woolwich-attack-Suspect-Michael-Adebowale-was-mentored-by-murdered-schoolboys-father.html
The security guard claims that from the mosque Adebowale was taken for weeks of “further training in Islam” to a centre near Cambridge and that the training was led by an imam from either Pakistan or Iraq.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331079/Woolwich-murder-Distraught-family-widow-murdered-soldier-Lee-Rigby-visit-street-died.html?ICO=most_read_module
Extremely weird scene:
Rigby’s fiancee is flown into the UK from Afghanistan to say that “he was the love of my life” while his wife with whom he was about to divorce and with whom he has a child is there crying for him, too.
So his new fiancee is currently serving on duty in Afghanistan?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331202/BREAKING-NEWS-Man-20s-stabbed-metres-soldier-Lee-Rigby-murdered-Woolwich.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-mailonline
And then, today another guy stabbed in Woolwich today. As i said before, there is stabbing and killing in Woolwich almost daily. However, when a gang member and drug dealer calls “allah” we have an immediate terror attack.
I would suggest to investigate about why Lee James Rigby was the victim. He wasnt randomly chosen. There must be a reason. I dont take the stories of him as being the “good boy” who was at the wrong place at the wrong time, just like they said that Sylvain was the good boy who was at the wrong time at the wrong place. BS!
There’s information here that intrigued me, given the apparent impromptu decision by Saad al-Hilli to take his family on a vacation to France at the start of a new school year:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2013/05/26/ns-cp-delisle-navy-spy.html
“The delay alarmed and frustrated Washington as the geyser of secrets continued to spew.
At one point the Americans, eager to see Delisle in handcuffs, sketched out a Plan B: luring the Canadian officer to the U.S. and arresting him themselves, perhaps during a stopover en route to a Caribbean vacation.”
There is a whole lot more in the article above, including the spy ring that included the red-headed Anna Chapman, access to the Five Eyes information, and lack of cooperation amongst various agencies, which led to a third party intervention. The damage caused was much more serious than previously reported. It’s well worth a read.
Mochyn69 5:05 PM, Tim V 2:14 PM
I wasn’t trying to be harsh on MZT – far from it – am really glad to see they are up and talking about Chevaline, nearly 9 months later. Clearly, the people who post there have perseverance, analysis skills, and most importantly, dedication to something we too, here care about, namely, keeping the memory of the vicious killings of Chevaline from fading into oblivion. We all recognize the public interest is fickle and the media that serve these interests even fickler, as they continue – en mass – to fail to raise obvious questions about crimes that a 10 year old would.
Actually I am really glad to see that the small crowd over there is still going over the those few items known about the case with a fine tooth comb, sifting through every possible lead. They are in the same boat we are in here, in a way, not being able to believe what we were told and lamenting the incredible lack of openness by the authorities as well as marveling at the bungling attempts by the one and only incomparable EM to obfuscate an the facts enough to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes. marilyn should be absolutely commended for keeping that board open.
As a matter of fact I am especially glad to see people on two boards looking at the chevaline crime coming from somewhat different viewpoints, even as both struggle with the unbelievable paucity of actual, believable facts. That is definitely a good thing and i for one, urge those who care to look at their board now and then especially I have seen lots of good comments and new angles there that I actually wish were brought over here. This is one reason i was glad NR took the trouble of informing us about posts at MZT and I always went over there to read through. It is BTW, the fact that NR took that trouble that made me wonder why he/she stopped posting here. May be it’s doctor’s orders to stop chasing the color red?
Mochyn, you are right about considering the “local” crime angle, right along with everything else. At this point, we cannot rule out much of anything, other than the “lone, crazy psychopath”, something that at MZT they seem to have concluded is highly improbable, as well. i know this was visited here many times, through several different angles – ONF involvement in a drug deal, revenge by Schutz family, hired contract killers, etc. It’s just that these “criminal” scenarios just can’t be reconciled with the extent and breadth of the cover-up, and cannot explain why the children are still confined, effectively, to “house arrest”. Most of us here were intent on taking that cover-up into account and considerable bandwidth was spent on uncovering the many leads that effectively prove this was going on. At MZT, while not entirely ignoring this aspect, they concentrated on the crime itself – and all the people around it – not a bad thing on its own, especially since people looked with great depth at every little known – and unknown piece of evidence. In fact they do such a good job on this that it, in a way, frees us to do the more speculative research. Perhaps vice versa too – since here on CM, we are willing to speculate about the “agencies” involvement, we may be noticing different aspects of the case, as well as connections to totally different cases at different times/places that are far from obvious at first sight, which kind of frees them from having to look at those weirder aspects as well. Benefits ensue all around.
I don’t know, is this my over-blown way of apologizing for perceived harshness?
Bluebird, 10:51 AM – yes, I think the pressures on Google are most worrisome for ithose who believe in internet freedom. Also, I fear you are right and wouldn’t be surprised to see that one day this board AND MZT were just “disappeared”.
Once before I asked how to save an entire web site and was given a good answer by someone I now forgot. I followed up and saved the one website I wanted but that was on another computer and now I forgot the trick. recall that it was quite simple. In fact, I thought it was a good way to store things and save bandwidth – as a side benefit. If anyone here remembers the procedure, please let me know?
Also, is there a way to set up an alternate site where people could drop communication, just in case? DI is too complicated and frankly, one can’t be sure that site will survive a serious “clean-up” operation either, should there be such a campaign in the not too distant future. All tips appreciated. I promise to be better at following up and keeping for “posterity”.
@bluebird 26 May, 2013 – 6:18 pm
Totally weird. This is Alice In Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass stuff!
Why are there so many parallels and synchronicities?
Chevaline:
Attack in broad daylight
SM and his personal relationship entanglements?
SAH/ZAH and SM/CS and their inheritance issues?
SAH and his SIS/ government associations?
BM’s weird TV interview?
Nigerian John?
Boston:
Attack in broad daylight
The Tsarnaevs double shoot out and their SIS / government associations?
The murder of their friend when being interviewed?
Woolwich:
Attack in broad daylight
Two suspects of Nigerian origin double shoot out and their apparent SIS / government associations?
The arrest of their friend after giving his BBC Newsnight interview?
Drummer Lee James Rigby and Lee James murder!?
Drummer Lee Rigby’s personal relationship entanglements.
What is going on here?
“Delisle had given secret material to Russia in exchange for upward of $110,000 over a period of more than four years”.
It’s not “big” money is it !
It’s a nice “yearly” bonus…and tax free, but a salary it isn’t.
And that’s the thing.
The postman at Claygate only thought Sa’ad lived at the house.
He had a wife and two kids (one at a local school).
His wife was training as a dentist, so they must have had paid for childcare.
Whilst he was in Dubai he met and dated his wife (and Dubai isn’t a cheap place to rent in….unless your company is paying a “housing allowance”).
So how did he do it ?
An extra 25K dollars a year ?
Interesting review on woolwich
http://www.chrisspivey.co.uk/?p=12025
I dont agree with everything he says but there are some interesting points:
Make your own picture.
I agree with mochyn regarding the similarities of recent events and particularly about how these events are delivered by media. Most people are obviously brainless and others could care less about such events. That is why they are able to deliver such stupid stories.
Those who question such stories, however, often just because out of pure logic, are called to be idiots and conspiracy theorists.
Mochyn
More similarities:
Boston:
Tsarnaev drug dealer and involved in previous drug murdering
No court action for drug dealing.
Key witness killed some days after during interview.
Tsarnaev in Dagestan appetently training for al Qaida. CIA was informed.
No court action after return to USA.
Contacted by FBI and CIA after return (mother said so)
Tsarnaev born in family with government links in Chechnia and Dagestan.
Discussions regarding fake and false flag.
Woolwich:
Adebowale drug dealer and involved in previous drug murdering while drug dealing.
No court action for drug dealing.
Key witness arrested after talking to BBC
Adebowale arrested in Kenya for being linked to al Qaida and brought back to UK by MI6. No court action in the UK.
Contacted by MI5 after return.
Adebowale son of a diplomat.
Discussions regarding fake and false flag.
Al Hilli:
Family with strong diplomat links and government links.
Al hilli visited Iraq in 2003. Troubles in Iraq.
Contacted by MI5 after return.
Discussions regarding fake and false flag.
James
26 May, 2013 – 2:59 pm – I don’t think the police remarks were “harsh”. In relation to America and the Boston incident, it is clear BOTH “suspects” were shot/killed, AFTER they were arrested and a further interviewee/suspect was shot in very suspicious circumstances. Examples of their blaze approach to their weapons are legion. Maybe if you are an American cop, in the American situation there may be some excuse for their approach. However there can be no excuse for shooting an unarmed person in custody.
Now as to the British police I am a great supporter of what they have to do and by and large the way they do it, but the trends are not good. We appear to be moving in the American direction. No one wants policemen to be unprotected, but the more you load them with offensive weapons, the more likely it is for them to be used. It is also bound to have a psychological impact. Tasering or shooting can become a shortcut when alternative methods would previously been used.
I am sure I don’t need to list the many incidents where police have fatally shot people by mistake or intent. Some are listed here – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom
I do not necessarily criticise the officer in the Woolwich case but I do wonder with so many policemen on scene, physical overpowering with the use of batons if necessary was not chosen as an alternative. I agree if either of the victims had and threatened to use a gun, and refused to submit, shooting them would be proportional. However in this case despite the earlier violence demonstrated, the two appear to have become quite docile and non-threatening, even engaging in conversation with and apologising to, bystanders!
It would appear that the police approach was first to delay attending until armed officers arrived, thus placing the their own safety above that of the public, and then on arrival of the latter, shooting almost immediately in preference to any other option open to them, and without it would seem command or formal warning. This says something about current police attitudes and procedures that should be of concern to everyone.
Your view that the British Police should be above criticism in their approach to detaining suspects or the appropriate use of firearms is the first step in a downward spiral of a para-military Police Force in Britain that no one wants to see (except perhaps a few).
Q
26 May, 2013 – 7:22 pm –
“And now watch that, too:
http://wikimapia.org/14551018/Verona-House
Read the first comment. Why here? What relation does this Verona House have?”
Yea an intriguing question BB. Did drummer Rigby have some connection with the block? There is a common Afghanistan connection. Were the attackers and victim known to one another? Was the attack motivation something other than just army? And given the fact that the victim was unrelated track suit, how was he identified as an army man unless otherwise known to be?
Is it possible that the attack was for a quite different reason for the one advanced to camera? That Government has chosen to latch on to a terrorism explanation for political purposes and despite knowing this was not the real reason?
“Two Gentlemen of Verona”