The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Comment on the fly re Ch 4 and to Tim V’s 2:13AM post:
Philipe Bossy/Diderjean: this to me is another hint (added to the growing collection) that the brit agency is still mad as hell, and not going to let go so easily. bringing up the name (with Zanni to provide cover) is a shot across the {already-bent} french bow. effectively saying – there’s more where this came from. The “disappeared” female companions, the attempt to slug WBM – are these responses to the question I raised recently (only to disappear following Tim V’s most comprehensive reply) – what made our WBM so very above suspicion – not just to the Gendearmes but to us conspiracy minded commenters? Bluebird, made a good point – WBM looked too “clean cut”, too “white”, too ex-RAF, too much like “one of us” (who are “us” anyways?). more to say on this later.
More on the french/UK divergence – FB’s comment about the English protecting the girls from too intrusive interrogations. Stopping interviews when they start to cry. Sure, it could all be tender loving care. Or it could be something else. I am the one who claimed, way back when, that the timing of the spiriting of zainab out of France and back to England was interesting, implying a certain urgency to get them out of France.
Finally (for now): the 3;15PM timing -. again, there is obviously something very significant about SAH arriving later, rather than earlier. There were theories suggested, but I am not convinced yet. There is something we are missing – and it is not about the actual killing, but about the cover-up. I think we should revisit the sequence – what and how would it all fall apart if SAH were to arrive sooner rather than later? “they” know something we don’t, or rather we do, but failed to note the significance thereof. And it can’t just be the builders’ testimony – “they” have been playing games with that for some time. I really think there is something else, a “where’s Waldo?” clue that we are deliberately given. Something that’s obvious once it’s been pointed out, because it’s hidden in plain sight but one has to know where to look.
jennywren – alas, we know next to nothing about SM’s movement the previous 24 hours. In fact, we know virtually nil about him and what he was up to for weeks before. It’s like all traces of the guy’s movements/conversations/happenings/whatever, disappeared without a trace.
I agree it’s interesting his son’s tweets came to an abrupt end the day before. None of us were surprised they’d stop the day after, but why before?
If you are hinting that there could have been an “exfiltration” then yes, this was considered. It was never eliminated from consideration since we don’t know enough to exclude the possibility. Same with the Al Hillis – there could have been a partial or complete extraction. I give it a 20% probability at this point, with a discount for wishful thinking.
As an aside, SM’s bike is another major mystery – why go up that pot-marked road with an expensive road racer? and was that the bike/ and if so, why were we never allowed as much as a glimpse of it? note again – neither before, nor after. No photo of SM proudly pedaling his lovely bike or posing next to it. No phioto of SM, ever, not young, not old, not with his son, not with a baby. One is almost tempted to ask – was there ever a Sylvain Molier? we have only the most circumstantial evidence that such a person existed. there he wasn’t and there he isn’t.
I am BTW, the asker of [hard] questions. nand the idle speculator about all things that make little or no sense. As to answers – oh well, not quite my department…
I have been here reading from time to time but its been several months since I last posted.
I am starting to watch last nights C4 film which I have recorded.
My comments are added as I continue to watch the film so will be in no sensible order.
The idea of going to Chevaline for the family we are told because the camping manager suggested they go there for a walk that day.
Either that rules out the significance of all the names of the location, and being 40 years to the day since the Munich Massacre, the camping manager is involved or this documentary is just to add another layer of lies to those told already.
Eric Maillaud says Zainab would have been dead in just 10 or 15 minutes but then is released from hospital later almost as though barely injured.
The C4 film says Zeena joins Zainab in the hospital and they are both put under armed guard. I recall Zeena being put into a separate hospital.
The ‘tyre tracks that weren’t’ or straight gouges on the ground from the film appear to be pieces of wood? showing the edge of the parking area.
The reconstruction of the shooting suggests that after Saad was shot in the back but managed to get back in to the car, shut his door turn on the ignition and try to make a desperate manoeuvre. Manoeuvre or just trying to drive quickly away.
The only journalist who has been allowed access to the evidential file says that when Saad tries to escape and run back to the car he was shot in the back.
The comic style reconstruction shows 2 adult men running back to the front of the car and opening the 2 front doors. Just who is supposed to be getting in the front passenger seat? Brett Martin???
The reconstruction shows all the shots were from one side, the left of the car is this accurate or just sloppy journalism? If Zeena was on the floor of the rear left side of the car which is what we are led to believe then it is more understandable why the gunman didnt see her. This would greatly speed up the shooting but not explain why any casing were either under the car or the other side of it.
Was Zeena being positioned on the floor just an incredible stroke of luck as this scenario gives her mother and grandmother no opportunity to hide her there.
1st advert break, more to follow……….
http://m.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html
Off topic but good to know:
The program, code-named PRISM, has not been made public until now. It may be the first of its kind. The NSA prides itself on stealing secrets and breaking codes, and it is accustomed to corporate partnerships that help it divert data traffic or sidestep barriers. But there has never been a Google or Facebook before, and it is unlikely that there are richer troves of valuable intelligence than the ones in Silicon Valley.Equally unusual is the way the NSA extracts what it wants, according to the document: “Collection directly from the servers of these U.S. Service Providers: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, Apple.”
Tim v.
I am pretty sure that NATO clandestine was involved. We had once an Italian NATO guy in this discussion who left condolences in a blog for Saad. This could have been false flag notices to confuse us about what Saad really had done in the 1990tees shortly before 9/11.
It could possibly be that they were killed by local a “stay behind” group. That would also confirm the silence of the people in Ugine and the secret being made regarding SM.
SM’s father was a famous WW2 military guy. “Stay behind” troops were civilians who were former WW2 military people. Kramer said that his father introduced him and he wanted him to be his successor in that GLADIO troop. Why not Sylvain’s father doing the same?
Do you know the Latin code in the GLADIO stay behind logo? No wondrler nobody in Ugine is talking! GLADIO does not talk. The use of an old weapon is also “stay behind” style as the CIA stored weapons in forests, cages and on mountains for “stay behind” activities shortly after WW2. “Stay behind” troops have access to those secret shelters.
Dont ask me, but my 7th sense is telling me that SM was the killer as he was a GLADIO soldier. That is why nobody in Ugine is talking. They know. Once again, quote the Latin Gladio logo!!!!
The only question remaining: who killed SM? Gladio? “Kill the killer” is a Gladio personal card. It makes sure that nobody talks later to police. No witnesses.
Marlin
I have always thought that the family arrived much earlier at the car park, I think I have said about 2.30 in the past but if they left the campsite around noon it could even be nearer to 1pm.
I have always thought, without any good reason to hang my hat on that the eyewitness account of the 2 builders was just too cute.
They saw the GB registered BMW coming towards them and they thought it was the houseowner’s and they were going to be in trouble for being behind on the job.
They were blocking the road, with what we dont know right at that moment and then kept the Al-Hillis there for several minutes until they finished and could let them pass.
Their account could give the exact time and that nobody was following them either.
Who needs CCTV when you can employ these builders they can even tell you who was in the car. So just who was sitting in the front passenger seat? If I am right I seem to remember that information was beyond them.
Tim v.
Adding up to my conclusion that the Molliers were “stay behind” officers (sleeping GLADIO troops) and that Ugine obviously knows this.
Search the following link for “haute savoie”.
The light suddenly lid in my brain when i read the “Johannes Kramer” BND/GLADIO story when his son did provide documents now.
Roger Mollier, a WW2 war hero. Haute Savoie, mountains, resistance, old weapons, and most significantly: nobody is talking in ugine!
And then the British at the scene in chevaline, nato links, saads work, etc.
And then killing of the killer …
All “stay behind” ops significances.
http://operation-gladio.net/special-operations-executive
France
See also: SOE F Section timeline andSOE F Section networksSOE’s operations were usually mounted in order to feel out resistance groups willing to work with the Allies in preparation for invasion.(citation needed) In France, personnel were directed by two London-based country sections. F Section was under British control, while RF Section was linked to General de Gaulle’s Free French government inexile. Most native French agents served in RF. There were also two smaller sections: EU/P Section, which dealt with the Polish community in France, and the DF Section which was responsible for establishing escape routes. During the latter part of 1942 another section known as AMF was established in Algiers, to operate intoSouthern France.Maquisards (Resistance fighters) in the Haute-Savoie département in August 1944. Third and fourth from the left are two SOE officersOn 5 May 1941, Georges Bégué(1911–1993) became the first SOE agent dropped into German occupied France. He then set up radio communications and met the next agents parachuted into France. Between Bégué’s first drop in May 1941 and August 1944, more than four hundred F Section agents were sent into occupied France. They served in a variety of functions including arms and sabotage instructors, couriers, circuit organisers, liaison officers and radio operators. RF sent about the same number; AMF sent 600 (although not all of these belonged to SOE). EU/P and DF sent a few dozen agents each.51SOE included a number of women (who were often commissioned into women’s branches of the armed forces such as the First Aid Nursing Yeomanry). F Section alone sent 39 female agents into the field, of whom 13 did not return. The Valençay SOE Memorial was unveiled at Valençay in the Indre département of France on 6 May 1991, marking the fiftieth anniversary of the despatch of F Section’s first agent to France. The memorial’s roll of honour lists the names of the 91 men and 13 women members of the SOE who gave their lives for France’s freedom.To support the Allied invasion of France on D Day in June 1944, three-man parties were dropped into various parts of France as part of Operation Jedburgh, to coordinate widespread overt (as opposed to clandestine) acts of resistance. A total of 100 men were eventually dropped, together with 6,000 tons of military stores (4,000 tons had been dropped during the years before D-Day.)52 At the same time, all the various sections operating in France (except EU/P) were nominally placed under a London-based HQ titled État-major des Forces Françaises de l’Intérieur (EMFFI).
Emblem of GLADIO “stay behind”:
‘Silendo libertatem servo’
means
‘I preserve freedom by remaining silent’
Ugine is silent!
Has anybody been to the ScotlandYard blog site recently?
I notice that as from yesterday the site is down and under new directorship.
http://scotlandyard.blogspot.co.uk/2013_06_06_archive.html
To be honest i should mention that tge “stay behind” GLADIO theory had been mentioned by some other people already back in september 2012. Simply search google.
However, for tge first time now we uave evidence and proof by Mr. KRAMER’s documents regarding the 1980 Munich bombing (a carbon copy of the Boston bombing).
Gladio had already been mentioned on this blog, too:
Ricki Tarr11 Oct, 2012 – 12:27 pm
Ive suspected Gladio as a explanation to the old weapons used in the Al-Hilli Incident.
Today, the difference is, however, that we have got the documents and the statements of Mr. Kramer that opened new views and windows of understanding.
Below does fit with what we know of roger mollier (annemasse).
rain wrote:I felt by introducing the post in opposition to the rest of information, I may be able to sense whether there is a geographical importance in Annemesse as the first letters’ tone suggests. I need to identify whether this importance in geographical location is time dependant or not and if it still exists.Fortunately, since Guy includes an index in his book, something certain other authors don’t bother to do, one can look up what he says about Annemasse.p. 244 is interesting, he says Annemasse was the headquarters of the centre for the post-war ‘stay-behind’ operations of European intel, i.e. Gladio. David Guyatt also seems to think so. And what a coinky-dink, I note Luc Jouret also lived there in the 1980s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#FranceFranceIn 1947, Interior Minister Edouard Depreux revealed the existence of a secret stay-behind army in France codenamed “Plan Bleu”. The next year, the “Western Union Clandestine Committee” (WUCC) was created to coordinate secret unorthodox warfare. In 1949, the WUCC was integrated into NATO, whose headquarters were established in France, under the name “Clandestine Planning Committee” (CPC). In 1958, NATO founded the Allied Clandestine Committee (ACC) to coordinate secret warfare.The network was supported with elements from SDECE, and had military support from the 11th Choc regiment. The former director of DGSE, admiral Pierre Lacoste, alleged in a 1992 interview with The Nation, that certain elements from the network were involved with terrorist activities against de Gaulle and his Algerian policy. A section of the 11th Choc regiment split over the 1962 Evian peace accords, and became part of the Organisation armée secrète (OAS), but it is unclear if this also involved members of the French stay-behind network.[43][44]La Rose des Vents and Arc-en-ciel (“Rainbow”) network were part of Gladio. François de Grossouvre was Gladio’s leader for the region around Lyon in France until his alleged suicide on April 7 1994. Grossouvre would have asked Constantin Melnik, leader of the French secret services during the Algerian War of Independence (1954-62), to return to activity. He was living in comfortable exile in the US, where he maintained links with the Rand Corporation. Constantin Melnik is alleged to have been involved in the creation in 1952 of the Ordre Souverain du Temple Solaire, an ancestor of the Order of the Solar Temple, created by former A.M.O.R.C. members, in which the SDECE (French former military intelligence agency) was interested.
http://dnb.alacrastore.com/storecontent/dnb2/269292301
CIA/Gladio link?
Annemasse – New York (Michel Mollier) headquarters. B2B solutions!
Coincidence?
Hi All, just to say that I thought last nights screening of ‘Murder in the Alps’ was a fishing exercise.
There were so many inaccuracies,too numerous to mention, I cannot think why else it was made.
What result were they hoping for ?
Did you also notice the women were barely mentioned ?
An entertaining post Marlin
7 Jun, 2013 – 8:13 am (as usual) You pose some pertinent questions and speculations. I think I had a go at suggesting one poss. explanation for the French insistence on the LATER arrival time. It’s probably a bit pedestrian and may not be the only reason but it is maybe worth considering.
If the Al Hillis arrived at or just before 3 pm, as I think on the basis of witness reports and other indicators, they did, and the shooting started about half an hour later but not before the arrival of Sylvain Mollier, it tends to undermine several of the French planks to their clearly preferred theory.
PLANK ONE: SM was NOT a target and was only killed because he was “in the wrong place at the wrong time” completely by accident.
Why? Because if the Al Hillis were “sitting ducks” for at least half an hour, it strengthens the case that the killers held off their operation until Mollier had arrived. Why otherwise would the killing operation be delayed? The early arrival of the Al Hillis strongly suggests Mollier WAS an intended target.
PLANK TWO: That there is no suggestion of an arranged meeting between Mollier and Al Hilli.
If they both arrive coincidentally at the same time this is tenable. BUT if it can be shown that the Al Hillis were WAITING in this lonely spot, and in the absence of any intention to picnic or go for a walk (indeed the two women just sitting in the car) then a theory of rendezvous is much harder to resist. Getting there early implicates Mollier in an arranged meeting.
PLANK THREE: That this was the action of a mentally unstable “lone wolf”.
Leaving aside the contradiction contained therein (lone wolves are arguably not mentally unstable although their actions may appear to be irrational to others) or if it was motivated (as has been suggested in the past) by racial hatred, a half an hour wait undermines it, as why would the killer delay so long or for that matter kill a French white man?
Now to speculate: It is clearly a high priority of Millaud (presumably on behalf of French Authorities) to keep Mollier out of the frame. This is attested by both his statements and actions.
No photograph or biographical details have ever been published of Mollier – highly unusual when seeking help from the public including the significant 3.15 photograph on quite spurious grounds. He admitted he was shielding SM and his extended family and to with-holding highly relevant information of family dispute. His explanation that “they deserved their privacy” would have been more persuasive if at the same time he extended the same consideration to the Al Hillis. Quite the opposite was the case. In fact he used the idea of family money dispute in the latter case to actually suggest Zaid was a suspect.
From the beginning he argued that SM “had lost his way”; that he was shot accidentally or because he was an accidental witness; that “nothing in the evidence points to implicating Sylvain Mollier”; by misrepresenting and downplaying SM’s role in his company; by never explaining the highly unusual three year paternity break; by suggesting the ballistic evidence that SM was hit first was not conclusive; by either promoting or not correcting false representations of the location of Mollier’s body in the press. Even by suggesting that Mollier was struck by the Al Hilli car, which in my opinion, given the respective locations, was quite impossible. If he was struck by a car, much more likely it was the attackers’ vehicle.
So in summary, it appears to me, Shakespeare’s words might apply: “Methinks he doth protest too much.” It indicates to me that for some reason known to the French, it was a top priority to assert Mollier, though shot and killed was not an intended target and that there was no suggestion of collusion or meeting between the victims. Insofar as an early arrival time of the Al Hillis pointed to that, it was important to undermine it: hence the French story they arrived at or just before 3.30.
“They quite literally can watch your ideas form as you type,” the officer said.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/06/06/nsa_fbi_get_data_from_nine_internet_giants_in_secret_program.html
And Saad al-Hilli was posting his views on internet forums.
“The program is focused on foreign communications traffic, which often flows through U.S. servers even when sent from one overseas location to another.
A senior administration official said Thursday that information collected through the surveillance program targets only non-Americans living outside the United States.”
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/06/06/nsa_fbi_get_data_from_nine_internet_giants_in_secret_program.html
I’m “out of range” shall we say, to pick up the C4 doc.
If anyone has recorded it, can they flick it on to YouTube ?
By any chance…did they mention that broken roof bar / roof rack ?
Or is that “est non important” again !
No copyright infringement of course…just for “the world” to see…incase it jogs the minds of any witnesses outside the U.K. !
“Culture clash” seems an odd description in light of PRISM:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/al-hilli-family-french-alps-murder-1736660
Once again, a James Bond reference:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/shortcuts/2013/jun/07/what-does-prism-logo-mean
As we recall, that helicopter crash in Vauxhall involved a pilot who flew for the James Bond movies:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/london-helicopter-crash-tributes-paid-1537572
Reality is stranger than fiction.
What was stored in the ether on Saad al-Hilli’s cloud?
Isn’t there a major IBM cloud computing facility in Danbury near Newtown, Connecticut?
The all-seeing eye is the kind of logo that will only fan the flames of speculation.
Don’t quite get your drift Mochyn69
7 Jun, 2013 – 5:13 am I’m afraid. To clarify, we are told Mollier was shot a total of SEVEN times; twice in the head. We are also told he was shot in the back. We do not know, or have not been told if all the body shots were in the back.
Of course shots in the back are not proof positive he was running away at the time (it is possible he could have been shot in the back when recumbent) but it is highly suggestive of it.
He fell and bled on the near/LHS of the car. It is therefore reasonable to assume the shots came from the upper road side not from the woods, and that he was in fact running towards them for cover.
So we have a picture of both Saad and Sylvain being alerted to the attack moments prior to shots being fired enabling both to begin to take avoiding action, Saad to his car, Sylvain to the woods.
It would appear the gunman concentrated on Sylvain first, shooting him in the back that brought him down but may not have killed him. This enabled Saad to make the complicated dive, probably across the bonnet of his car, and get to the drivers seat, probably being shot at on the way, hence the windscreen bullet traces.
The question now arises why he went back rather than forwards? My only guess is that his forward route was blocked by person, vehicle or both. By the time he had reached the bank he was dead with at one or two bullets through the head, whereupon with engine still revving and wheels spinning, the two females were despatched coldly in the same manner.
To suggest, as the French authorities have done and last night’s programme repeated, “that the car was stuck” is a misrepresentation. It was in that position because the wheels were spinning in reverse not that it was “stuck”. Had the forward drive been engaged it would have freed itself and moved forward. This is further evidence, if evidence were needed, that SAH was incapable of moving the selector by the time he hit the bank. I.e. he was dead.
Well that’s my view for what it’s worth!
Trying to find “The Alps Murders” documentary, I found this….
“Channel 4 (C4) has tapped Rize USA to produce The Alps Murders (working title), an examination of the much publicized 2012 unsolved murders case” (Link below “A”).
Rize USA, the production company led by Sheldon Lazarus, has been commissioned to produce The Alps Murders (working title), a one hour Channel 4 Current Affairs Special examining one of the biggest unsolved murder cases of 2012.
“Rize USA has gained exclusive access to the much publicized case known as The French Alps shootings or Annecy shootings which refers to a brutal gun attack on a British-Iraqi engineer Saad al-Hilli and his wife, children and mother-in-law, and French cyclist Sylvain Mollier on 5 September 2012 on a deserted countryside road near Lake Annecy in the French Alps”. (Link below “B”)
So it was Rize USA that The French decided to “show” their “exclusive” files with.
I would have thought the French, being the French…would only “share” (and release) their information though their own “trusted” journalist.
That is after all, what we have been seeing, is it not.
“A”
http://realscreen.com/2013/05/15/channel-4-rize-tackle-the-alps-murders/#ixzz2VXOMIQkr
http://realscreen.com/2013/05/15/channel-4-rize-tackle-the-alps-murders/
“B”
http://www.noodls.com/viewNoodl/18662699/dcd-media-plc/1552013-rize-usa-wins-channel-4-special-8216the-alps-mu
Lazarus. Of course. Why not?
Mr Lazarus as a guest speaker.
“Perhaps most unusual of all is that Sheldon is an
Orthodox Jew made successful in a highly competitive, secular industry”
http://www.clayhallsynagogue.org.uk/COLUMN/20120204.pdf
Not sure the whole film and television industry could be said to be “non religious” ! A tad wild a times I’m sure. But they can’t be all classed as “non religious”. Not all of them.
@James
7 Jun, 2013 – 3:15 pm
That, James, is a very astute observation.
Did the C4 documentary actually talk about SAH’s ‘anti-Jewish’ rants, or is that just a misinterpretation?
And we learn from his own words on MZT that FB, SAH’s Skype friend is Jewish.
SAH seems to have been surrounded by Jewish friends, neighbours and advisers!
If there was a photograph taken at Arnand, then from time/distance/speed calculations it is possible for Al Hilli then to be on the Combe D’Ire and at The Martinet….at the required time.
However, it would be “highly likely” (if not “impossible not to”) that the Al Hilli family group, in the BMW to have passed Martin on the Combe D’Ire.
If therefore that is the case …and Martin had been “requested” to withhold this information….then he (Martin) could not answer (or be questioned on) the condition of Al Hilli’s driving or state of his vehicle.
That being….why the hell was the roof rack / roof bar broken.
The “elephant in the room”. The devil in the detail.
Tim V 2:23 PM – that was a very plausible reasoning line – logic at its best.
I think you have convinced me – the entire thrust of the French “investigation”, such as it is, was to divert attention AWAY from SM being one of the targets or even the key target. Indeed, it is not possible to posit that, were Saad + family encamped for 1/2 hour or more at the lay-by, that a gunman targeting him (alone and/or family) would have not “offed” him as soon as he was there.
So that’s it then – a half hour wait pinpoints SM as one of the targets, whether the main one or not.
Actually, the early arrival scenario kind of blows a hole also in the suggestion that SM and SM alone was targeted as per a “local” plot, perhaps related to his family affairs. If the gunman lies in wait at the martinet has a chance to observe the Al Hillis hanging out there, AND he is expecting SM to arrive, chances are that “lone” shooter, possibly on Motorbike, possibly in a car would have gone some ways down to intercept SM coming up, without running the risk of having more witnesses around to deal with. Of course, in this I AM assuming a rational killer, not a “lone nut”.
Ergo, if SAH arrives somewhere around 3PM, possibly even earlier, as Straw44berry suggests above, the” Sylvain Mollier innocent bicyclist collateral” theory, per EM, goes to hell in a hand basket.
And lo and behold, the 3;15PM photo materializes. never mind the conflict with the “builders” testimony. Just ignore it or throw doubt on it.
Also, ignore the craziness of the timing and the obvious fact that the Saad’s BMW would have to have passed both WBM AND SM. If somehow, due to split-second timing WBM was not passed, that means he could not have arrived at the martinet before 3:35, with 3;40Pm as more likely given the time to bike from the bottom of the climb up Combe di’ire (working backwards on the assumption that the the BMW, turning in, just missed overtaking him).
Now, according to the documentary, Bossy says THEY were there 6-7 minutes. However, WBM was there first and did a whole bunce of things, according to his own testimony, something that could not have possibly taken less than 10 minutes. So there goes the timing to the 3;48PM call – WBM arrives on the scene at 3;35PM the earliest (otherwise he’d be there when the shooting occurs, plus it’d make him than unbelievably fast cycler – on his mountain bike!). Give him at least 7-10 minutes (and that’s an underestimate, surely) to dismount, take stock of the scene, move Zainab, move SM (+ search pockets), ascertain all dead, find a way to shut down the car, go down some distance to meet Phillip, then go back up again the two of them – ON FOOT!, then spend 6-7 minutes on the scene and go down again to get a phone signal.
Adding this up – even assuming both Brett Martin and Phillip Bossy move at super-human speed – puts us beyond 3:50PM at the very earliest for someone to make that phone call. And we have WBM not confessing to making that call, just about killing EM’s scheme.
Tim V, you are the official Time Lord here. How about you take a crack at the timing scenarios again, this time with the PB 6-7 minutes added in? I know that Lars on MZT has also been constructing timelines there – and is much troubled by this added piece of information (he said he is going to try and revisit his timeline). Let’s see if different minds, working independently, will end up at the same place, however they get there.
I wonder about why nobody did notice the Annemasse – Gladio/stay behind – Mollier connection.
I am convinced that the possibility that SM was the killer as a “stay behind” member, instructed and introduced into Gladio by his father Roger, is a high one. This would explain the silence of the family and the silence of Ugine. “Silendo libertatem servo”.
Gladio significance is the killing of the killer.
Saad did hit Mollier with his car? My car would be my best weapon to fight a killer who has got a gun. I would try to hit him with the car before he can kill me.
Finally, once the killing is completed, WMB comes up (cleaner) to get the gun for removing it as prearranged. SM gives him the gun and cycles off tge scene when WMB shoots him 7 times. “Killing the killer” is a typical Gladio scenario.
Then the gun is being removed.
No witnesses, no white BNW, no car leaving the scene. Thr killer is dead but being portrait as an unlucky innocent. WBM is just the hero who gave first aid. Nobody left to tell the truth except for WBM.
Also it is Zainab who is talking only about ONE bad guy. Why didnt she mention Mollier? She did! He was the ONE bad guy!
Marlin
You’re missing the point.
“according to his own testimony”
There is no testimony. There is an interview to a news agency.
And that is the point. Why do that ?
No family members coming forth with pleas to solve a murder.
No appeal by “The Police” to help catch a killer.
Just “some random facts” by a “first on the scene witness”
The “timings” do fit, if you take the Arnand picture as “fact”.
But of course we don’t know if this is true.
We do know that the “first on the scene” guy did give an interview.
Why was that ?
We are missing something here. Directed by misdirection.
What are we missing ????
Blue….
Who was it that wrote on this blog…a few posts up
“and there he wasn’t” in reference to Mollier.
I don’t even think we are dealing with “Mollier” sometimes.
The French gave Sheldon Lazarus company access to their files ?
Does that not seem odd ?
I haven’t seen the doc on C4 as I am not in the “U.K.”
But the fact that RIZE USA got access to “Bossy” seems VERY strange.
Just when I think this blog is dying the death, we QUALITY post by the contributors above. There is obviously life in the old dog yet. Perhaps we have to thank Lazarus?