Live on the Fly 34

Here is Friday’s New York WBAI broadcast hosted by Randy Credico with Roger Waters, John Shipton, Alicia Castro, Ray McGovern and myself.

I was slightly worried in retrospect we sounded like friends and campaigners having an internal conversation about strategy. But it appears people found that interesting to hear.

Alternatively, listen on the Live On The Fly website: Live On The Fly – Fri, Aug 4, 2023 15:00 PM

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34 thoughts on “Live on the Fly

      • Tatyana

        Thanks for the link, Digger UK, I’m listening to it right now. And thanks to all kind people who have been letting me be on this site for all this time – I’m quite able to understand nearly everything, that’s how my English has improved 🙂

        • Robyn

          Tatyana, your contributions here are among the most interesting and informative. Have you thought of having your own blog?

          • Tatyana

            Thanks for the compliment, makes me happy that you appreciate my contributions, Robin.
            Blogging is a real job, I don’t think I can afford another one, in addition to doing household chores, cooking for the whole family, and jewelry making (which I still don’t know how to qualify because I work on my own without employees so it can hardly be called a big word “business”, and it does not bring so much money as to live only on it, so it’s more of a hobby).
            I am completely satisfied with commenting here to be updated on ‘big politics’ events, and to find out what other people think.
            On Russian social media I’ve got an account and write posts about handmade/jewelry making, food supply tactics, and some public affairs, the last one was to call the attention of the government to the format of price tags in stores. I don’t think it’s interesting to anyone else besides Russians.

  • Courtenay Francis Raymond Barnett


    As regards the idea of Assange being spirited away on a one way trip to the United States of America – I have my doubts or at the very least a question.

    So long as there is another tier of appeal available – then even in a worse case scenario where the state wants to see the back of Assange headed to the US – then what if. Say, the lawyer promptly gives verbal notice and an undertaking that within x time the formal written notice/appeal will be filed – then does the state still proceed and leap frog process to send Assange on a plane to America – regardless of process?

    • craig Post author


      Priti Patel as Home Secretary was several times reprimanded by the courts of deporting people in analagous circumstances – a slap on the wrist with zero effect.

      The courts would ultimately rule the government was wrong to do that, but with zero effect.

      • Courtenay Francis Raymond Barnett


        Thanks for your explanation.

        At the least it seems important that the message of ‘rule of law’ and ‘due process’ should be trumpeted as loud as possible in all quarters and in support of Assange.

  • DiggerUK

    Our host… “I was slightly worried in retrospect we sounded like friends and campaigners having an internal conversation about strategy”

    The unvarnished truth is that is exactly what you all are in the main. Ray McGovern threw the right coloured pill in the room and some picked up on it, some missed what he did and others need to start reading the writing on the wall.

    Let me throw this on the agenda of the ‘friends and campaigners’ on your WattsApp group. Tell Julian to go to court every month and demand he be given release on bail as he is entitled to do so. For the life of me I can’t understand why this isn’t happening as a matter of routine., no publicity is bad publicity. Alternatively raise some funds at a nice polite coffee morning

    I see a lot of near dead people at the heart of Julian’s ‘friends and campaigners’ who need to top up with a go-go juice or two. Preferably before time runs out. Put another way, stop being so polite with your campaigning, stop being so old school and get media savvy.

    And if moderators don’t like how I’ve spoken to you, sack ’em…_

      • Peter Mo

        DiggerUK does actually touch on the subject of bail. It’s a mystery why we don’t hear of efforts to obtain it. Certainly when awaiting the US appeal Julian should have been out on bail. Don’t forget there were no charges ever filed from Sweden, so skipping bail in that case is a whole lot different to skipping when the charges are on the table.

        • Lapsed Agnostic

          I believe he’s considered a flight risk, Peter. I’d be a flight risk too if I was potentially facing 175 years in ADX Florence – especially if there were people willing to help me get off this sceptered/septic (delete according to preference) isle.

          • Peter Mo

            The fact that no Swedish charges were filed surely then any form of skipping bail should be inadmissible as evidence of flight risk. Extradition was denied therefore why should anyone spend time in jail awaiting an appeal. Obviously the appellant will delay the procedure for as long as possible as their own form of vindictive punishment.

          • Peter Mo

            And further LA everyone is entitled to self defence even against rogue political elements of the state masking as the judiciary. I wonder if Julian’s lawyers have ever considered the plea of self defence.

          • Lapsed Agnostic

            Thanks for your reply Peter. Thanks to sales of artwork, Assange’s defence team has at least $50 million to spend on hot-shot lawyers specialising in extradition law. I’m sure if there was any way of getting him out on bail, they would have found it. He’s being denied bail because the UK authorities don’t want to have to deal with the embarrassment of having him pop up in Belgrade or wherever.

          • Ronny

            He’s being denied bail for the same reason he was denied mail for three months, and warm clothes in winter, and a working computer when he needed to work on his case files.
            There are people in positions of authority who hate and fear him and want him to suffer.

            If it was really necessary to hold him in custody he could be in a medium or low security jail. “He jumped bail” is just an excuse, but also one of the causes of the resentment – they don’t like having their authority challenged, and they don’t like the UK being shown up as a rogue state.

        • Tatyana

          Digger UK has another important point about being media savvy.
          Mr. Murray at the end of the podcast mentions YouTube, that is where I’d like to step in. YouTube is not exclusively about showing the face. It makes automated subtitles, also it’s possible to control the speed rate. I personally turn on the subtitles and slow down to 0.75 of the original speed, when listening to native English speakers. This allows to understand what they are talking about. Thus you can reach wider audience.
          Also, YouTube videos are super-easy to share or to embed into websites. It also allows to make a link inside the video, e.g. to another video, or a playlist, or account. Saves a lot of time, no need to repeat what was covered earlier or by other people. Thus, videos can be made shorter and hold attention of the viewers, as many cannot spend much time on one topic, normally people want to get a general idea and only know the details if they are interested.
          Once made and uploaded on YouTube, the clip is easily shared to other venues. I do short clips 1:1 screen size format – universal to promote my small business, looks good on YouTube, my selling marketplace, and Instagram, Facebook, TikTok etc.
          Easy to film with a smartphone, easy to edit again in a smartphone, even easier uploaded everywhere again from the smartphone. Takes about a month of attentive step-by-step learning and you’ll be posting videos like a pro 🙂

  • Tatyana

    It took me a day to listen and re-listen to sections, and still I’m not sure I understood everything correctly. I resorted to my usual method of perception – to catch emotions.
    I want to say that it was a consolation. Honestly.
    I’m 45 years old and I am Russian. This may not say anything to an outsider, but it says a lot to those who know Russia. My generation is a turning point, born in the USSR and raised in families with a Soviet mentality. Our personality was formed in the 90s, and we had to break ourselves, to reconsider and understand other values, to adapt ourselves to post-USSR life without any preparation for new realities, and no immunity to difficulties of completely unknown type. We just looked at each new day with new eyes and tried to respond in the best possible way.
    A very special generation, because those who are 5 years older and those who are 5 years younger are strikingly different from us. The elders had already matured and built connections by the time of difficulties; the state was already taking care of the younger ones. Mine, the intermediate generation, was caught between two state structures.
    We are used to relying always and exclusively on ourselves. We are accustomed to the idea that no one needs us, no one will take care of us, we have no one to count on, and no one’s heart bleeds about our fate. We are lonely, even if in a couple, we are still desperately lonely.

    What is happening now with democracy and freedom of speech, for my generation, is only a bitter confirmation of what we have already seen. The hypocritical slogans in the Western media do not deceive us here, because we have seen equally hypocritical slogans here.
    Bitterness and anger. Because a beautiful picture of the ideals embodied somewhere, to which we ourselves aspired, turned out to be a farce. It’s like there is no hope that things are going differently elsewhere, that we could take this as an example and build this at home. In this disappointment, the most bitter thing was to see that people sincerely believe what they are told. And that means again a conflict, again a military race, buried diplomacy, blood and death.

    This stream was a stream of hope. There are people on the other side who care. There are those who see through the painted veil.
    Thank you!

    • On the train

      That is a wonderful statement Tatyana. I read this blog everyday and always look out for your comments which are invariably warm, interesting , humorous and bring a unique insight to those of us living in “ the west”. I think it is so interesting that you feel you were born and grew up in that very distinct slice of time giving you a feeling , as you say, of loneliness. But it also seems to have given you an unusual and valuable insight.
      I hope this dishonest conflict will pass away quickly without more, as you put it “ blood and death”. And that friendships between Russians and other European nations can resume. My father always had the highest respect for Russia and passed this on to me. Please don’t think that all of us here believe what we are told.

      • Tatyana

        Thank you, On the train 🙂
        well, actually, if we don’t go into my personal feelings or lengthy philosophy, then my idea can be reduced to a couple of paragraphs and put it in simple language.
        My generation fell on the interval when the old state no longer exists, and the new one has not yet appeared. We were young and had zero experience and the world around us was changing. Bifurcation point.
        As all young people in such situations, we were looking for how we want to arrange our future life. And of course we listen to those who, in our opinion, live well. We believed they may give better advice.
        So we have seen this with our own eyes: there are some “living well” people. They come up with beautiful slogans, like “we are for all the good, against all the bad, follow our plan and you will be all right, just as we are.” Later it turns out that they pursued their own goals, and also kept silent about the most important thing – what is the means to achieve these “good goals”.
        So in Chechnya, desiring independence, suicide bombers appeared, and we saw Beslan and Nord-Ost. Radical Islamic terrorism.
        So Yeltsin “led us to democracy,” and we saw tanks on Red Square and the subsequent wildest impoverishment of the population with the transfer of all national property into private hands. And shooting in the streets, and constantly exploding cars of new businessmen. Rampant banditry.
        I see the same thing in Ukraine, where the younger generation believed that tomorrow they would escape the Jungle and be residents of the European Garden (c) Borell, they just need to hate Russia and be tolerant to Nazism.

        Nikolay Zinoviev, a poet in my region wrote:
        ‘I don’t understand how it can be done
        In the name of good ideas.
        Lies triumph, immorality rages…
        Am I supposed to shrug my shoulders when I see it?
        But how can I then cross myself
        with the hand that made this gesture?’

        • Tatyana

          the poet slips a religious connotation, so I will add a little more context:
          The mentality of a Russian person is deeply Christian, but not in the sense that one might assume.
          I mean, the country has gone through 70 years of anti-religious ideology, so we normally don’t run around with Bibles crossing ourselves all the time 🙂
          It’s different, something very deeply embedded in consciousness. It manifests itself in critical situations, when previous experience does not give clues, and logic does not know what conclusions to draw. I call it “falling into the most simplified way of responding”. It’s literally trying to find the best way out of a critical situation guided by those very simple commandments – don’t kill, don’t steal, don’t lie, treat others the way you want to be treated…

    • Neil


      Your comment is an example of why your contributions are so valued, and so appreciated. You are giving us an insight into the life of ordinary Russians that can’t be found in the so-called “mainstream” media, nor in the “alternative” media.

      I am a Fart of great antiquity (“old fart” = fuddy-duddy), for example I hate mobile phones, and only use mine when I’m forced to. All four of my grandparents were born in the ninteenth century. I was born shortly after The War (there is only one war that is called “THE war”) but it overshadowed everything when I was growing up; it traumatised both my parents and everyone else of their generation, and if it was bad enough for them, it was many times worse for most of the people of continental Europe, especially the Russians, who suffered more than anyone else. Never again.

      But when I was young there was a feeling of great optimism, “we” had defeated the Nazis, and everything was getting better. The NHS and welfare state had been established, the British Empire was being steadily dismantled (doing the right thing for the wrong reason); not only was university free, the State would actually pay you to go to university. No student debt hanging over you for most of your life. Millions of new houses were being built to replace those destroyed by wartime bombing. Lots more. Not all perfect, but after the horrors of war, people didn’t mind, as they could see things were getting better.

      Nowadays everything is getting worse; the neocons are working hard to destroy the NHS, and I can’t see a way of stopping them; the neocons are still pushing for non-stop war; the neocons are slowly bringing in the worst aspects of the Stalinist system, removing human rights, abolishing the legal protections against abuses by the state, extending censorship, corrupting the justice system, and all the other horrors that Craig writes about.

      Thank you again for your contributions and insights.

      P.S. There is a word in the Russian language for the disappointment that (some) Russians feel when they move to the west, when they discover that things there aren’t as great as portrayed by western propaganda. In English transliteration it begins with the letter “Z”, and there is an article in Wikipedia about it, but I have forgotten what it was. Are you able to say what it is?

      • Tatyana

        Thanks, Neil. I like to learn about other people and feel their mood and capture echoes of how they see the world. I think I saw part of yours.
        Unfortunately, Mr. Murray’s blogs and especially the conversations in the comment section have a way of engaging me so much that I don’t notice the time spent, and I have obligations that can’t be put off any longer. With your kind permission, I’ll be back tomorrow, hopefully with the word you are asking about 🙂

      • Tatyana

        Good morning Neil. I thought maybe you meant “zameshatelstvo”? The most neutral word to describe confusion, embarrasment, bewilderment. The next more emotionally intense word would be “smyatenie”.
        I thought that the ideas of Western people about the mentality of Russians are rather strange. I remember student life and the first experience of communicating with an American.
        The man was delighted that there were students of the Faculty of Foreign Languages nearby and came for tea. There was an awkward conversation with his bad Russian and our bad English. He traveled around the former USSR trying to understand the country. As he said, earlier he was “there” and he could not talk about “that” period of his life (still not sure where exactly he was, some hints revealed he was an ex-military). He mentioned a helicopter (thanks to the huge number of books I read in childhood, I guessed the word ‘helicopter’, this form is outdated in Russian).
        It was strange for us to hear from him the question of where to get marijuana. All kinds of drugs were a strict no-no for my generation.
        No less strange to us seemed his compliment to Yulia’s leather coat, which he described as “expensive” and devoted quite a lot of time to praising the style and quality. I think you will agree that for a young Russian person who first comes face to face with a person from behind the curtain, coats are an unexpected topic of conversation 🙂 We’d like to spend time discussing more important things.
        Later, I happened to see texts like “How to understand Russians”, and something fell into place. Now, when I see ‘Russian experts’ writing instructions like: “Russians like to make small talk about expensive consumer goods: the new car, the new watch, the new smartphone.” – I make a facepalm gesture 🙂

        • Neil

          Thanks for that interesting little anecdote, Tatyana. Now I know the difference between вертолет and геликоптер! Unfortunately “zameshatelstvo” isn’t the word I was looking for, the one I’m after has a whole article about it on the English wikipedia, and I stupidly forgot to make a note of it. The vast, non-stop, barrage of anti-Russia hate and propaganda that we’re getting here means that the first foreign country I now want to visit is Russia. Similar to why I make a point of reading anything that is censored; even if it is rubbish, I will read it, because censoship is NEVER acceptable.

          • Tatyana

            You’re welcome, Neil 🙂 By the way, we use the word ‘anecdote’ often, but it means any joke. The meaning of ‘life story’ is as outdated as ‘helicopter’ and may be found in historical books, around the period of Peter the Great.

            Perhaps you’re looking for ‘beznadega’ word? I know it doesn’t begin with ‘z’, still ‘z’ is the strongest most energetic sound in it. I know people sometimes remember the strongest sound and think it is the initial in a word.

            Some person described the feelings of Russian emigrants in the West:
            “…the tragedy of emigration … about the emotional decline that many emigrants will never part with…
            In our world, many people have appeared who are not needed by society and the market. Who will not be able to fit into a prosperous stream. But instead of directly admitting it, they are told: oh, dude, this is not a failure, it’s just depression, go to a psychotherapist, take some pills and you will be fine. A person goes to, takes that, and … and resigns himself to his hopelessness. And after stopping the drugs, he again cannot look at his life soberly.

            There are especially many of these among emigrants. I saw their darkness, these extinct faces. Emigration for most people (except for those who fled to Paris from the tribes of Africa), ends with a drop in social status. You, as a rule, find yourself in a circle of people with whom you would never communicate at home. Most of all, this concerns refugees: if you are not included in the emigrant political party, you will live among people of low social status…
            The trauma of changing the social circle is very strong. Because it reveals the truth to a person – nothing will be better. It’s very difficult, having got into such a circle by the age of fifty, to get out of it…

            in The Lancet magazine… today’s millennials (born 1980-1996) in well-fed countries have the same problems as residents of post-Soviet countries in the 90s: they do not fit into the market, because the market cannot offer as many good places and opportunities as there are applicants.
            All people in the generations of 25-40 years old are brought up with a mindset for success. The world is transparent, everyone sees the level of consumption of each other, everyone wants to be better than others, but they cannot. Because this is more transparency, not the emergence of more opportunities. Therefore, right now, millennials in well-fed countries are dying from everything that killed our people in the 90s: drugs, vodka, hopelessness … And among the clients of psychotherapists, they are the majority. Millennials with poor or no jobs and no prospects.

            In previous generations, such people lived well, they had a job, they worked normally as plumbers, locksmiths, they were NOT considered losers. But the fashion for success and conspicuous consumption that came with the Internet has changed the attitude towards such works and such people…
            This comrade from New York is also suffering from hopelessness. He came to the void, there is nothing better for him. But instead of admitting that this is not depression, but life – he clings to doctors, waits for advice on medicines and listens to the encouraging words of random people…
            Another one will fall down, will collect money for psychotherapy and gobble handfuls of pills. He says that he ‘never paid much attention’ to the social circle and knew how to live among different people. And one more thing (he would say) that among his acquaintances emigrants there are different people, but they are all happy and do not want to return to Russia.
            There is nowhere to return to, to start with.
            Are they happy? Really? His friends in the photo have the same faces. And the same random passers-by give them joyful thumb ups and write: “It’s nice to look at happy people.” They write exactly the same thing to a man with “depression”.

            We have indeed entered a very difficult time. In the world now there will be more and more people whom life will crush. In Scandinavia, they came up with a basic income, and in Germany or the USA – psychotherapists and sick leave for depression. This is soma culture. Take soma – stay at home! This is cheaper than ensuring a fair way of life with such a monstrous social stratification…

            It is very, very scary, actually, to find yourself a nearly 50-year-old unemployed man in a rented apartment on the outskirts of New York, in the company of poorly educated locals from black areas, with no prospect of getting a job some more serious than selling oysters. And without the possibility of returning home, because the return is meaningless, you are too late to arrange your life there, too.
            Bad luck. If you are attentive, right now you can watch in real time several such tragedies at once, which are behind high-profile political and gay emigration. Some people have already regretted leaving. We realized that emigration was not an option. This is Scylla and Charybdis: it is dangerous at home, but here it is hopeless. And, it turns out that not all of them lived that badly in Russia, not all were threatened with prison and death. Some left on a wave of political enthusiasm.
            And there is no turning back. Instead – a psychotherapist, pills and encouraging comments from random passers-by “Hold on, sunshine!”. They say and move on. And he forever remains in his pumpkin.”

            I’ll link the source

          • Neil

            Yes, Tatyana, I’ve been following The Duran for many years. They do some good work in many areas, but they are also badly wrong in others, especially climate change (read what Clark has to say on this site), and I am very strongly opposed to their attitude towards migrants and immigration (which is why I will never give them any donation or paid subscription). It was anti-immigrant bigotry and xenophobia that caused Corbyn to lose the last General Election, and if Corbyn had won we probably wouldn’t now have this horrible and unnecessary war in Ukraine. Unforgivable.

            Another annoying feature of The Duran is the excessive length of their videos. They keep repeating the same point several times, wasting a lot of my time, and making their videos 3 or 4 times longer than they need to be. But that might be an advantage for a non-native speaker wanting to improve her English!

            There are several other vloggers who show videos from Russia, including a nice Polish lady (aniak44 “Through the eyes of”), whose English is terrible – worth watching to track developments in Poland, which are very worrying. Mike Jones (“iEarlGrey”) is another one, but he has now been very effectively censored.

            I really like these ground-level videos from Russia (and from other interesting places). When I was younger, my preference for holidays was to go on long cycle-touring holidays, including Dunkirk to Venice (in a group); Barcelona to Bilbao (Bilbo in Basque), zig-zagging along the Pyrenees, over every mountain pass, some of them over 2000metres; north-west France to the Basque Country; Madrid to Malaga by a very circuitous route including the highest road in Europe at Pico Veleta (over 3390 metres). That’s how I learned Spanish, with nothing more than a pocket dictionary and a small phrase book, mostly avoiding the tourist areas like the plague. It’s remarkable how fast you learn when you have no choice! You get to see how ordinary people live, and appreciate how helpful they always are. I taught myself the Cyrillic alphabet during a family vacation when I was 15, but I know very little Russian beyond that. Perhaps my first visit to Russia will be a total immersion course, but that will be hard to cope with at my age. I learned French, German and Latin at school in Scotland, but have forgotten almost all the Latin through lack of use. I learned the Basque language through a series of total immersion courses.

            Russia is such a huge country it is hard to know where to start in planning a visit. St Petersburg looks very similar in many ways to Stockholm (I ran the marathon there in 2004) but nothing can compare to the Hermitage!

            The neocons have been working very hard to make life as unpleasant as possible for me recently, namely delaying a big operation on the NHS for about 2 years, but I finally had the operation, which means that I am now free to travel again. Yippee! If the neocons get their evil way, people here will soon have to choose between bankruptcy or death/serious illness, just like they already have to do in the US.

            P.S. As this discussion is about Julian Assange, you might like to click on my user name, which will take you to a long list of resources about him.

          • Neil

            Sorry Tatyana, I forgot to thank you for the pointer, it is appreciated.

            Re-reading my long comment above after a little break, I realise it could come across as a bit negative. But my negative remarks are about The Duran, and were not intended to reflect on you at all.

          • Tatyana

            Neil, I didn’t catch any negativity directed at me. I’ve been thinking more about how much we have in common. I also studied languages, and if I had the opportunity to travel, I would avoid popular tourist routes 🙂 It seems to me that you, like me, are more interested in looking at the real world than perceiving “pictures” prepared for you by third parties as staged events/shows.
            And I also feel as if I have come into contact with your inner world, and I would like to give more attention, and read through all the sources that you suggested on the Assange case, and give feedback. To interact. Instead, I’ll have to work hard again this weekend with my customers.
            And this makes me sad, because now I look like a very narcissistic person – I went out and told about my sorrows, but I can’t waste time on what my interlocutors say.

            As for the Duran guys, and most of the other bloggers, there is something in each of the channels that I agree with and disagree with. It doesn’t bother me, it’s probably normal. Мне с ними детей не крестить – we’re not to be the godparents of one child (the meaning is that the difference in our positions is not vitally critical).
            Duran “Red Maroon Button” – it’s hard to remember foreign names, so I make up my own labels for bloggers – I didn’t get to know Duran’s position on migrants, perhaps I must find out what is it.
            In general, I believe that people can change their position, admit a mistake, so this is not what constitutes the essence of a person. Namely, the essence of a person, their inner core – that’s what is more important to me. Alex Cristoforou has such a core, it is difficult for me to give a verbal definition, I can only give an emotional one – I could marry such a man.

          • Neil


            Sorry for taking so long to reply. Although I like learning foreign languages, my main subject was mathematics – I was doing elementary Calculus at age 10, studied mathematics and statistics at university (+ a few other minor subjects) and used maths/stats for a living for most of my working life. BTW, some of the best mathematicians in the world are Russians. 🙂

            Despite my criticism of The Duran, I watch and recommend them. They are very good for exposing the lies of the MSM. As you say, it’s useful to listen to people with whom you disagree, and I often find out some useful facts. I usually speed up their videos 1.5x, so they don’t eat up so much of my time. I will sample the 2 individual channels from time to time, but there is no way I’m going to sit through any of their long videos (about 20mins is my limit) .

  • Franc

    I liked what everyone had say in that programme and because i didn’t know anything about Ray McGovern
    I looked him up on Wikipedia. An impressive background!