The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Blue
I agree. That is the best way to go. And I agree with the logic, BUT I can not see it in relation to this. (of course it maybe there…feck, I don’t know).
Tim “jumps” on the “secret Service” like it’s the only thing !
You have to be really careful of seeing “ghosts” in every window ?
I see the “800K” and I wonder why a “CAD” guy was turning over 20K in 2006.
BUT bumped it up to “triple” that the next year ?
This fella “knew” about the 800K. So what if he had to split it with his bro. That’s normal. Not to have a “heart palp” about.
400K in your back pocket…plus if he had to sell the house for 800K and split it…that’s nearly 800K in his pocket.
And THIS the guy that’s earning 20K a YEAR !!!!!
Hah ! I don’t buy he was not up to something,
No One would go to court on “that good a deal”. No one.
James
19 Jul, 2013 – 2:43 pm
* to some extent I agree with you.
* Like astronomers we learn from what we see AND what we can’t see.
* It’s all a case of matter and anti-matter. Light and Dark.
* And bullet points of course.
“Like astronomers we learn from what we see AND what we can’t see”
The earth is flat…was the cry.
Yet people from 100 foot up can only see 19/20 nm’s.
It is strange what people can see.
And more strange what people then assume when they can’t see.
The monsters, the End of the Earth, the massive sea urchins with numerous arms….and so on
“Proof” my friend Tim. It is not only for Judge’s and fine whiskey…
…but for all things.
Tim….
And “Prism” really worked ????
It’s a great way to spend money…
BUT…. if you haven’t invented it, “tell ’em you have. That’ll feck ’em”.
Don’t sit there and tell me “propaganda” works only in one direction !
Of course YOU believe they can, and then they tell you they can !
And you say “Damn”…. “I knew they could”.
And then the perception becomes reality.
Wake up and smell the Arabica my friend. It’s a “con” both ways. And that’s the “show”.
James
Yes. The 800k.
He is afraid of his brother? He locks the door and wears a bullet proof vest because his brother threatens him because of house and money?
BS!
If it was his brother who makes him fear for his life in the months before he got killed, then nothing would be easier than going to police, let them collect evidence for the threats and jail zaid.
Zaid threatening Saads life is BS!
I rather beliefe that it was Zaid who told him to let that money untouched. Sometimes you get something from your dead father that did not really belong to him. Sometimes you even get depths from your dead father that must be paid.
I think that zaid knew that it was no good idea to touch that saddam money that did probably belong to the french metal workers union and neonazi organisations. Perhaps this was money to fund french terror.
Zaud said no. Leave that money where it was.
Saad said yes, i’ll take my fathers money.
The third party said that they dont want to be betrayed.
Saad knew too late that he got into conflict with the wrong people.
Imho that is the reason why they want to make us believe that there was an inheritance dispute. Yes there was one. However there was none about who got what but a dispute about the family’s safety.
Blue….
I said 800K (that’s important).
I never said it was his bro.
Lets face it, you pay your bro off, take a 400K mortgage…and still have 800K in the bank. That ain’t too shabby at all.
My question is. Where did it come from ?
And why “feck off” to Dubai after the mothers death ?
Clearly he had some money “put away” and could do it.
But 800K put by for a rainy year ????
I don’t buy it. And the BS stories about him. There more to that fella than meets the eye.
James & ReCognito – Re SAH income
1) Have you considered that SAH might have had a clever accountant?
2) What is the source of the info re: SAH income? (you’ve not seen his income tax returns have you?)
Straw44berry, thanks for the link. I see he was there talking to reporters before the 27th.
Interesting that the story never got more detailed, other than some questions answered about the BMW and the computers. Though, based on everything I’ve seen from FB, I did not see any added detail that we didn’t get from a published source. That by itself, is a bit strange, as james has duly noted. Strange, as in the stated motivation for popping up commenting on a blog (MZT) that assembled mystery solvers the world over. FB stated that he just wants to see “someone” hauled in as the killer so that the girls can finally go be with their family. Even if it’s the wrong killer, like Zaid. I called him on that statement once. No reply ever came.
james, I do agree that that there is funny stuff going on about the official Saad accounts. barely enough for one person to eke out a living in ’01 and ’02 yet he has enough to tempt a fine woman such as Iqbal to leave Dubai and set up shop in the UK where she can’t practice until recertified. So, zero income from her side. But saad is doing better in ’06 and ’07 though still nothing spectacular.
Then in 2010 the income stated is absolutely not enough to fund children education, Iqbal’s training and caravan trips to France. Without question, there had to be additional source of income just to maintain the BMW, the caravan, the dental training, pay bills on the home and keep all those computers humming.
We will not however discover what that source of inclome was, so can only speculate.
Evidence of money shortage is an element in common between SM and SAH (as Tim V has pointed out).
So what did Nigerian John find when he hacked so successfully into Saad’s two accounts? that there were only 300. pounds or so available for the taking? and if so, what did the family live on that month? surely not those two accounts?
@ recognito,
there was and is that alternative route (Cherel something) where a SUV or motorbike could escape. They discuss that route a lot over at MZT and Max has a map posted on his site. I think that here, people don’t exclude that possibility but unfortunately the existence of such a route does not help much in advancing the case one way or another.
Also, like james, I have my doubts about the RHD BMW X5 that suddenly became a “car of interest” nearly 10 months after the fact. I agree with whoever said it was a code (on MZT I think. lynda or marilyn, can’t remember, must check again). That fits well with my theory of an inter-agency tit-for-tat “game’ going on. All in all, I give little credence to the exact details disclosed but more to what it might be striving to tell.
Bleb
“1) Have you considered that SAH might have had a clever accountant?”
I have yet to find an accountant that can “reduce” my turnover so that I can pay lower tax.
Turnover IS turnover.
Unless you “hide” those incoming payments completely, you’ll have turnover. Increase you “outgoings” by all means and to reduce your income….but we are talking “turnover”.
What came in the door. Not what he “wrote off” and then was paid on (or rather taxed on).
Then again…can I trust the figures I see in the “internet days”. Great access…sometimes lousy data ?
James
BND says that the 800k coming from Saddam Hussein. I believe them. They (BND) know everything regarding NAZI funding is in europe. Hence, they’re even doing that themselves.
Zaid is an accountant. I have never heard before that a golf course employs an accountant. They employ a manager who should know the game of golf, who could entertain their members and who can organise the green keepers. They employ a secretary and green keepers. That’s it. But an accountant? Never heard about that. They have an accountant but they dont employ one.
I wonder about whether or not this golf course job is a hidden agenda and he does in fact other accounts than memberships and green fees.
What if that golf course is owned by somebody who belongs to CIA or MI6?
What if Zaid did continue his fathers job first born son!) as an accountant for certain monies, “working” in that golf club as his cover up? Nobody would ever become suspicious about his real work if he were hidden in a golf club!
So then, what kind of accountant he might be? Terror money accountant? Drugs money accountant? Neonazi money funding accountant? CIA money accountant?
He definitely knew the origin of the geneva money as an accountant as this was his father’s account. No accountant would be dull enough for not knowing about the inheritance of his father and the origins of these accounts. He was no child when his father had died.
So then what is the message of my post?
Zaid was in fact the family’s accountant who continued his father’s job, even after Saddam had died. Saad could not care less about Zaid’s business. He wanted that money and he saw a chance to get a hand on this money. Zaid knew that this was no good idea for the family. That’s the dispute. However, Zaid did not kill for the money, he probably just tipped off the owners or more likely the designed recipients of that money. That’s exactly when all that mess had started.
Could we find out more about the golf club where Zaid works? Who is the owner? Who is the manager? Any government related links of the owners? Any CIA/MI5/NATO links of members or owners/managers? Any British NAZI (right wing) links in the golf club ownership? Let’s dig!
What was SAH doing in Dubai?
Was he working for intelligence?
I have seen it stated that one of the family worked to persuade Iraqi commanders to give up or offer limited resistance.
Unfortunately I cannot presently find that reference, perhaps BB can give it a go?
Also Eric Maillaud stated early on that one of the dead was connected with espionage or international crime.
When did SAH take British citizenship?
Again I remember reading it was 2003 but cant find it again.
SAH told a neighbour that he was working on a £800,000 deal prior to his death. Coincidence?
James
19 Jul, 2013 – 4:39 pm the paradox is the higher u go the less you see. there is always a trade-off between depth and breadth.
another paradox: the less ego-centric the universe appear, the more ego-centric humans became
the difference between contradiction and paradox is that the former is unreconcilable whereas the latter isn’t
keep up the good work james. you’re flying without wings
James
Just scanned the other place
“are you saying the ancient Greeks killed Saad?”
You’ll not get a straight answer out of the teapot, but keep tweaking his spout!
Blue…
“Zaid was in fact the family’s accountant who continued his father’s job”
THAT I agree with. 800K doesn’t just “happen”.
If it’s “yours”, then a lot more has “passed” for you to make it.
I am interested in that.
Tim V 19 July 2.07 pm
Ref your idea that SAH was an MI6 asset and was gathering information about networks etc in his dealing(s) with SM. Whatever happened to safe houses or ‘drops’? Why take one’s children along?
If WBM also an MI6 operative maybe the meeting was meant to be in his house but something went wrong. How far away is WBM’s place from the scene of the murder? Perhaps the women were supposed to babysit for an hour or so and go for a stroll. Mind you, I seem to remember from some report that they weren’t dressed for walking? Or am I dreaming that up?
GiP
You know me tooooo well.
I do want answers. And (as this is public he will also see) I do “tweak”.
He doesn’t get off that easy !
I can pin point the “day” the man from Yorkshire came on the scene.
I want to see whay=t he has to say.
And Socrates is a hero of mine. Totally misunderstood.
He was like the “reverse” of Bernay’s.
They both “knew”.
Tim…
I have no idea what words you speak “my faithful Indian friend”.
But you are taking an acorn…and making it an oak tree.
Can I say, your playing into the hands of demons.
You understand the “idea” of “terrorism”.
It’s not how many you kill, it is measured by the fear you make.
Do you not think “others” know this ?
I would “invent” Prism.
Think how many would fear it.
And whilst it “is” possible, the “stats” don’t support it.
It is the “oldest” game play in the world.
Do you think the US would sit there and say “they can’t track the interweb” ???
Lets look (actually I will maKe you “look”) at the USSR “secret sub”.
So quiet you can’t hear it ! Makes “spending” easy because “Hey look how good they are !”
There was no “USSR silent sub”….but the “fear” served a purpose.
Abit like “Afghanistan” and “Iraq”
Actually check out “United Fruit Company”. You make “get it” in the end.
It’s a “game”.
“the paradox is the higher u go the less you see”
And that’s why the Uboot had kites yes ?
You’re talking through tour arse !
Re: GoodinParts,
Your question. They were imam al khoei and ayatollah al sistani who said that the iraqis should not attack americans.
We earlier presented links that made it quite clear that the families were friendly connected with al Khoei.
However, there was no al hilli family member in that regards ever saying nor doing that.
Intelligence: Saad’s uncle hashim al hilli was UN ambassador in new york representing iraq. Later he worked at the iraqi embassy in london. When he was tortured and arrested by saddam hussein in 1969, Saddam accused him being a spy for a foreign intelligence.
Those were the confirmed intelligence links of the family.
However, particularly the intelligence work in leading positions is being forwarded from fathers to sons. There exist typical “secret service families” with a long secret service tradition.
James
19 Jul, 2013 – 4:14 pm you can’t be sure SAH knew about the 800000 in 2006. He (and Zaid) may not have learned about it until his father Kadhim died a couple of years ago.
Nor is it certain the money came from Sadaam. That information came from the BND which very strangely popped its head up from nowhere and then disappeared again.
It could equally be misinformation to deflect attention from the true source and rather tar the Al Hilli name innto the bargain by associating it with SH.
Then again Geneva was regarded as a “plum posting” for Foreign Office staff according to Correa, and a recognised interface for east/west/north/south contact.
So where do you think those billions that MI6 and CIA expend go do you think? Well a small but significant proportion ends up in escrow accounts apparently for services rendered, not immediately accessible to avoid suspicion. A sort of pension fund. Is it significant that Saad’s income peaked in the lead up to Iraq? Companies have always been used as useful fronts. (Silver Fern may have also been useful in one way or another if only as a plausible reason for being where he was) Strangely perhaps the secret agencies have proved very reliable as regards agreed terms for agents where these have become public.
Then I came across a rather interesting quote from the arms inspectors tasked with finding WMD and drawing a blank. “We have inspected quite enough chicken farms for a lifetime” they said. Yes chicken farms!!!
Al khoei
And that was who they went to for the funeral.
But we are missing a trick here.
2002 to 2003 42K
2003 to 2004 27K
That’s a big drop ?
Tim
“Nor is it certain the money came from Sadaam”.
NEVER said it did !
I never said “who” made it. Or who paid it.
But someone did.
Someone paid someone. Ain’t that a daisy !
Do we know the name of the golf club (zaid)?
I would really like to see the ownership and its background.
An accountant knows how to handle money issues, esp. for accounts where his father had access to.
Money laundering is a difficult business and you really need some clever accountants. Ask Meyer-Lansky.
Sometimes the idea comes before the proof. In fact that’s the scientific method and we wouldn’t have had nuclear bombs and a lot of other things without it.
OBSERVATION
THEORY
TEST
PROVE
AN ESTABLISHED FACT OR “LAW”
Incidentally my mind isn’t closed except to rather silly assertions made here and elsewhere such as the shooting indicates a non-professional when the exact opposite is the case.
I like to think that it is reason and logic that has brought me to the conclusion that states were involved in these murders though of course I do not know which one(s). That’s why I have discussed the possibilities. Ditto motivation.
sorry that one was prompted by yours of James
19 Jul, 2013 – 4:43 pm
There is another thing coming to my mind. ZAID is an accountant but Saad paid Stedman as his accountant.
In case that both brothers were struggling for money (i dont think so!), why didnt saad use his brother’s expertise?
James 5.02 this monitoring intercept stuff is old hat. Why would you doubt the capability? What do you think the thousands at Cheltenham and elsewhere DO all day, every day? And that’s just the human input. Most is automated for later retrieval and analysis if and when required.
Just to bring you up to date here are a couple of examples from the 40’s and 50’s since when of course technology and necessity have not moved on at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Silver_(1949)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-20/cold-war-spy-tunnel-under-berlin-found-after-56-years.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gold
The latter incidentally was passed to the Soviets by their agent in Britain, George Blake. They didn’t “discover” it until 1956 to protect his identity.
Blue
And I need to check…but “that” happened AFTER the death of their father ?
Lets roll the dice here. Lets play “who knew what, when”.
His brother would know the accounting procedure for the transfer of monies. If not declared, it would be a nightmare.
Lets go back a bit here.
The brothers “fell out” over the house ? Who said that ?
Not Aked. He was talking of “rants” on the interweb.
We don’t know what went on. Lets think it through with logic.
800 grand (in the hand). That’s a pay day that is.