The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Bluebird
19 Jul, 2013 – 10:21 pm golf clubs have a tendancy to go bust. they are then bought out by hedge funds and they in large measure are financed by middle east types of all religions and none to speak of. they are also great place to meet and greet and earwig on business conversations arn’t they?
Tim…
You are missing the point.
What would it take to “do” this now ?
How many ways are there to be “hidden”.
I fly without a “trans”. We are “hidden”.
I have checked it. I know. “Flight Aware”, “flight Radar 24” anything…even the good stuff.
I can “ping” more “Mil” than I can find where my plane is on my days off !
How is that ! I know. We fly “FoF” on Mil radar. But we are “civil”.
And half the damn Mil can’t see us (which is not a worry).
I have flown into the “hotspots” of the world (including “Crazy Corner”) and I have had NOT ONE PING !
Tech is great…but it doesn’t work.
Jennywren
19 Jul, 2013 – 11:16 pm I am sure you appreciate the difference between assets and spies, and between agents and officers. Of course I have no idea what the various peoples role was, I am just thinking out loud. But if this was potential espionage or clandestine meeting, which from Governments’ responses it seems to be, then the general possibilities present themselves. SM as potential mole or source. SAH as potential asset of MI6. WBM an employee (officer) of British Intelligence or businessman with long established arm-length function.
The world of le Carre still exists I am sure but eventually human contact has to be made. The location certainly lends itself to secrecy. Presumably had there been no attack we would have been none the wiser and whatever had been envisaged would have been up and running smoothly by now.
We have at least ONE hero in common then James
19 Jul, 2013 – 11:19 pm!
I/m going with Tim from now on…..
WBM, Asset, Prob SIS or MI6
Mollier, Non asset. Maybe Mossad Kidon
SAH. British asset.
Nigella Lawson. UK asset. With assets !
Me. asset UK but overseas.
This is an “asset on asset” case. !
For fuck sake !
It may be a “game” James
19 Jul, 2013 – 11:36 pm but the consequences can be life or death as we have seen. And whether the queen moves to D6 or D5 can appear a tad academic if you have battery terminals attached to your testicles!
if you stop thinking through it and use the organ designated for the purpose you might get it. 🙂
“a tad academic if you have battery terminals attached to your testicles!”
Plato wrote that Socrates thought people were mainly mad !
I agree.
So away from the land of “spooks” do you actually think “crime” gets committed ?
above in reply to James
19 Jul, 2013 – 11:40 pm
I agree Tim.
Everything…ever…is “spook”.
Assets everywhere. All looking. Watching. Planning
Even your “windows” update” was a “worry” !
For F*** sake man !
What is the source of the information regarding SAH income?
Are you referring to the published accounts of a company SAH had to sell his services as a contractor?
I’m not an accountant but surely those company accounts will not show SAH’s income from non company sources. Unless you have access to SAH’s personal tax returns, you don’t know what his declared personal income was.
James, you seem to be assuming SAH had no legitimate sources of income other than his consultancy work. How do you know this? (BTW that is a genuine question not an accusation!)
Maybe all this was established long ago and I’ve just forgotten?
James
20 Jul, 2013 – 1:35 am of course crime gets committed. This WAS a crime obviously. What we are discussing is who did the crime and why. I can’t be bothered to go back over the reasoning that rules out “conventional” crime.
Bleb
Good question, I don’t.
All I see is the turnover of ShTech…and “assume” that was the main source of income.
It may have not been.
SSTL said he was a long term contractor…but there was little to go on.
His income may have been from elsewhere. I don’t know. I suspect it was. But no one is saying.
His declared income via his only known source is through ShTech.
For “back channels” and “assets” and what can happen to them, check out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Lindauer
Bleb…
Further, if you can find where he worked. I’ll buy you a pint !
I have no idea. All I see is “turnover”. From where I haven’t a clue. SSTL figures aren’t logged. I get Yr End 2010. (26K)
But it is said he had 800K in an account.
Zanni never said where it came from (he should know surely).
business used as front to launder money
” The group used a money laundering technique known as ‘cuckoo smurfing’, where proceeds of crime are transferred through the accounts of legitimate and unwitting customers who are expecting genuine payments from overseas
“http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/general-news/mp-s-hero-jailed-for-19m-plot-to-launder-money-1-5725660
http://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/reports/ML%20and%20TF%20through%20the%20Real%20Estate%20Sector.pdf
http://www.theday.com/article/20130508/NWS02/305089965/1070/SPORT15
ad infinitum
Great one Tim !
“judge Michael B. Mukasey ruled that Lindauer was unfit to stand trial and could not be forced to take antipsychotic medication to make her competent to stand trial.
He noted that the severity of Lindauer’s mental illness, which he described as a “lengthy delusional history”,
1. The Yanks are mad
2. The tanks are mad
3. She has a “lengthy delusional history” !
Shall we call the next one in ?
Tim….
You are just quoting “madness” now.
What the hell has 800K in a Swiss account got to do with buying cars in “MilleDuVille Ca” or where ever the feck it came from ?
I think people are getting a bit desperate from lack of new leads. Both here and on MZT. What leads there were have been inspected and tossed about and mulled over ad infinitum, and still, new insights are as few and far between as they were back in Septemeber 2012. that despite admirable collective sleuthing, fact gathering, article warehousing and photo enhancing.
I also think people have a hard time with seemingly motiveless crime(s) so they re-package the crime around speculative motives, omitting what details must be to make the crime “fit” the motive.
I say “motiveless”, as we really have no idea what this was really all about, only speculations, some stronger than others, none convincing enough to get more than 2 or 3 on any one bandwagon. What motives were suggested are either incomplete, full of holes, too fanciful, or not fanciful enough. I don’t think I saw anything so far that fits ALL the facts as best we know them, including the bizarre post-crime behavior of all the investigative agencies involved. that includes my very own speculations, which have only traced outlines without hitting the point.
Those who read these blogs and know, must be getting exasperated – perhaps clues have gone barely noticed among the bare fact dress-up parties. such sad little “facts” that have been cast to a public obviously treated with abject contempt. Somebodies somewheres were being well entertained, for a while there, but I have a funny feeling that they are now getting bored with us all. And that’s bad, because we may not be getting any new “goodies”.
Examples: 100’s of posts later we still have no clue :
(1) what the 800K in the swiss bank came from and whether Saad had access to it
(2) what saad’s income was
(3) whether saad visited Iran as we were once told (Qums of all places too!)
(4) whether iqbal lived at Claygate
(5) what was Saad doing in Dubai or for that matter what was iqbal doing there, with a sister in UK a mother in Sweden (with a PhD in Biology), having trained where exactly?
(6) why did Niger John net so little money from Saad’s accounts? and on whose orders was he let go and why?
(7) was Zeena really in the car for 8 hours un-noticed? (yes, I know some are willing to believe that. Some also believe in the tooth fairy, I hear)
(8) why the thousand and one night stories from EM even as the good villagers of Chevaline collectively sink into the silence of the lambs?
(9) why do the british and the french seem to work at counter purposes?
(10) why do the girls have to remain hidden from the world with only meager contact with family?
(11) where are the photos of Iqbal, Suhaila and Sylvain and were there ever any photos of them (if not, why not?)
(12) why is this case so rich in symbolism anyways?
(13) why did NR, the funny sleuth disappear from among us and what did we do (or not do) to deserve that? did this blog become too boring, god forbid? has it gone too far into never never land?
(14) why are Europeans so fascinated with neo-nazi and/or paedophilia plots while those in other continents go – hmmmm?
(15) And if anyone bothered to get this far: what is the meaning of the BMW 4×4 RHD? what if it is code and we have so far failed to put 4 and 4 together?
I was having a look at the BMW x5 as I saw it described as a people carrier in one report and discovered that some have 7 seats, do we know whether this one was a seven seater and if it was could there have be another person on board .
I would assume not as it is possible to see luggage in the back on the photo’s but as the tailgate was open I thought it worth mentioning .
Could the elusive HT have been with them ?
Does nobody know the name of the golf club where Zaid worked? I cant find it anywhere but i know that it has been reported because there was a police raid when they did arrest zaid. Aldo somebody said that the russian litvinenko friend died close to that golf club. So theb, somebody here should know the name of the club.
Please!
From tim’s link regarding criminal money laundering above. Thanks tim
I understand that you began searching after my suggestion of Zaid/Kadhim being some kind of Meyer Lansky team? Did Saad fear to lose his house? Were the 800k in geneve – like a miracle – more or less exactly the price of that house? Why the raid in the golf club? They wont search for flag sticks and golf balls, would they?
Note the highlighted text!
22. A trust account10 is a separate bank account, which a third party holds on behalf of the two parties involved in a transaction. Funds are held by the trustee until appropriate instructions are received or until certain obligations have been fulfilled. A trust account can
be used during the sale of a house
, for example. If there are any conditions related to the sale, such as an inspection, the buyer and seller may agree to use a trust account. In this case, the buyer would deposit the amount due in a trust account managed by, or in the custody of, a third party. This guarantees the seller that the buyer is able to make the payment. Once all the conditions for the sale have been met, the trustee transfers the money to the seller and the title to the property is passed to the buyer. Case study 2.3: Use of a solicitor to perform financial transactions (Predicate offence: distribution of narcotics) An investigation of an individual revealed that a solicitor acting on his behalf was heavily involved in money laundering through property and other transactions. The solicitor organised conveyancing for the purchase of residential property and carried out structured transactions in an attempt to avoid detection. The solicitor established trust accounts for the individual under investigation and ensured that structured payments were used to purchase properties and pay off mortgages.
Some properties were ostensibly purchased for relatives of the individual even though the solicitor had no dealings with them.
The solicitor also advised the individual on shares he should buy and received structured payments into his trust account for payment. Indicators and methods identified in the scheme: • Instruments: cash deposits, real estate. • Mechanisms: solicitor, trust accounts. • Techniques: structured cash transactions, establishment of trust accounts to purchase properties and pay off mortgages, purchase of property in the names of the main target. • Opportunity taken: the solicitor set up trust accounts on behalf of the target and organised for transactions to purchase the property, pay off mortgages, and shares were purchased to avoid detection.
In some cases properties were purchased in the names of relatives of the target.
Source:
Australia
If the above theory is true, because for me this is one the most logic ones, then we know who in fact “owns” the geneva 800k money if we only knew the seller of the claygate house.
Are there any records in the uk to find out about who had sold the claygate house to kadhim?
BB
zaid’s Golf club was reported by Anorak as being at Burhill group ltd at its head office in Walton on Thames. http://www.anorak.co.uk/332710/news/annecy-lake-murders-media-focuses-on-zaid-al-hilli-and-ignores-suhaila-al-saffa-and-sylvain-mollier.html/
Tim V
Re Mi 6, I do know the difference between an asset and an officer and not simply through reading John Le Carre! I also know that they use safe houses and drops and would not be so unprofessional as to have children along during an important meeting where discussions had to take place about networks etc as per your scenario. 2.07 19th July.
As far as I can tell SAH’s Bmw was a different model to the 7 seater.
This is the model I think SAH drove.(manual)
http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/bmw/1025687450
and this is the 7 seater (auto)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/bmw-x5-7-seat
Check out Max’s fantastic picture of the bike at Mzt it looks like a bike to me anyway and on the same picture the policemen the other side of truck near some crime scene tape ,there is a cross like bike skid mark any ideas on how that occurred ?
I do wonder if where the two policeman are on the grass verge between the skid and the crime scene tape is where Zainab was lying based on the animation on the channel 4 documentary.
@Pink – in that photo it looks even less like a bike to me, more like tape in a figure of eight pattern.
@Marlin – “… the bizarre post-crime behaviour of all the investigative agencies involved …” now that is the only thing I am certain of.
James
20 Jul, 2013 – 1:39 am Worried James? Not at all. But the “Up date 1 of 1. do not turn off your computer” returned after a few days break. This has never happened in all the years I have had a computer. It appears rather weird to me.
So do you think the 30 BILLION dollars the CIA costs is illusionary? This is only the CIA – billions more for NSA, FBI, Military, and police and you think it is ME obsessed by spooks!
Thanks for the Burhill golf club info.
http://www.golfbusinessnews.com/news/people/burhill-golf-leisure-honour-long-servers/
Alan and Jane were presented with engraved gold watches to commemorate their dedicated service, while 16 other long servers, who were celebrating a decade’s service, were presented with luxury pens.They were Jane Meincken, Christine Mullan, Sally Owen and Zaid Hilli, who all work at head office, David Cook, Andrew Owen and Phil Jerry (all Burhill Golf Club), Catherine Drummond (Hoebridge Golf Centre) and Jane Thorne and Angela Mitchell from Thornbury Golf Centre, Bristol.
http://www.burhillgolf-club.co.uk/contact-us
http://www.burhillgolf-club.co.uk/
http://www.bglcompany.co.uk/
So then, where do we put the Guiness ownership? Do we find MI5/CIA links?
James
20 Jul, 2013 – 2:01 am Ahhhhh! I see James. The woman was delusional – a bit like those proponents of WMD then? (If I remember rightly forced medication to dissidents in mental hospitals was a favourite of USSR?) Except none of them were arrested and held in incommunicado. And nothing she said about her work and contacts has been denied as far as I know.
Your role here is becoming increasingly clear. I suppose you believe a 757 flew into the Pentagon?