The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
How close was the Guiness family to the Nazis?
Diana Mitford (Mosley) a personal friend of Adolf Hitler.
Any other suggestions welcome.
James
20 Jul, 2013 – 2:05 am – the point is, as I am sure you must be aware, just two RANDOM illustrative examples of how businesses are used to “launder” large amounts of illicit money. This may or may not have been done by SH, or have an application to this case. The possibility was raised by others here. My examples illustrate how it works in proved cases.
Bluebird
20 Jul, 2013 – 6:38 am is this any use?
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/surrey/claygate/
“Public data lists 33 Foley Road as the registered address for Al-Hilli’s firm, SHTech Ltd. SHTech’s Company Secretary is listed as Ikbal Al-Saffar whose personal address is also 33 Foley Road, which could be Iqbal Al-Hilli, Saad’s slain wife.
Companies House information details some 70 companies registered at 33 Foley Road, Claygate. This is probably because that murdered Saad Al-Hilli’s accountant, Julian Stedman, resides here. Mr Stedman has provided varied information about the Al-Hilli family via numerous media interviews.
Foley Road also happens to be the same street as Claygate Primary School purportedly attended by Al-Hilli’s 7 year old daughter, Zainab.”
http://www.demotix.com/news/1437669/claygate-address-murdered-saad-al-hilli-company-shtech-ltd#media-1437643
Difficult to find despite all the words. SAH address 26 Westbury Avenue, Claygate Surrey. Can’t see see a sale price for it but here are others in the street
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/surrey/claygate/westbury-avenue/?q=westbury%20ave%20Claygate%2C%20Surrey&search_source=nav
When you Google the address even with “Hilli” in it doesn’t come up so am I mistaken or not? I found the road address from the police barricade photograph @ http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00334/112856633_claygate_334728b.jpg but perhaps this is a different road?
The Guiness family see below one detail. Walter Guiness, Baron of Moine.
Sorry if that is boring. However, it might be useful to know about WHY perhaps Zaid did work for that golf club.
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/kidnap.htm
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
http://vmcjournalism.wordpress.com/tag/earl-of-iveagh/
Walter, the first Baron Moyne was an avid politician who hadn’t wanted a title because he was happy in the House of Commons. When he did accept the title, he became Minister resident in the Middle East and in 1944, he was assassinated in his limousine, while returning to the Embassy in Cairo, shot at point blank range by Stern Gang terrorists. His son Bryan, the next Lord Moyne married Diana Mitford, one of the famous Mitford sisters. She left him with two sons, Jonathon and Desmond and ran off with Oswald Moseley, the leader of the Fascist Movement. Her sister Unity was said to have been in love with Hitler and attempted suicide when her affections were not returned. Bryan remarried and had nine more children.
I take your point Jennywren
20 Jul, 2013 – 8:24 am and agree old well tried systems are still used I am sure. However the point I was making was that meetings in the flesh so to speak also are used.
I agree taking the children on a risky mission by a caring father is very unlikely. I referred to this many months ago as being indicative that he regarded the trip and location as relatively SAFE. This presumably because he knew what he was doing or knew who he was meeting or thought the location was intrinsically safe.
However I do not agree that having his family with him is necessarily indicative that British SIS was NOT involved. Let me cite just one famous example from the 60’s. Oleg Penkovsky was a major spy acting for the west who finally came to grief. Greville Wynne was a BUSINESSMAN who was used as an intermediary. One of the methods used to transfer information in Moscow was by using the wife and child of an MI6 officer – Janet Chisholm – who would meet Penkovsky in the park, and under the cover of admiring baby, slip papers into the pram.
But then you probably know of this and other cases where women and children have been used before yourself. Apologises if I might appear to be stating the the obvious.
Tim !
“Difficult to find despite all the words. SAH address 26 Westbury Avenue, Claygate Surrey”
It must be damn difficult…as that’s not Al Hilli’s address !
Is that were you live ?
You’d be no good as a spy. You’d blow your own cover !
“Were” ! “Where” !
My bad. Was belly laughing whilst typing !
26 Oaken road
Jennywrenny.
Oaken Lane.
and Foley Road is the accountants address.
What is interesting is they bought it many years back.
It pre dates “the records” which only go back to 1995/96
At that time property there was changing hands in the 160K / 180K area. Obviously depending on the house of course.
In 2005 you can expect a 495.000 GBP figure
And in February 2013 number 37 went for 690.000 GBP
It’s not the same style as Al Hilli’s. It’s just further up and across the road.
Strangely that actual property was “previously listed” on the 5th of September 2012 ! That’s a bit of a coincidence.
It went up for 750.000.
James 5.42 20 July
That is a bit of a coincidence but on the other hand maybe it took a day or two before it was registered online – did they exchange contracts or finally sell it then?
If Saad was living at Claygate for some years, until he got married…and as reported by Gary Aked was a “ladies man”, where did he do his “duvet wrestling” with the ladies ?
A thirty something single male…bringing a “victim” back to his parents house is not going to “impress” the ladies ?
just testing James….
Yeh !
That’s what my instructor use to say…when he got it wrong !
presumably they taped off Westbury Avenue because it runs parallel and at the back? you noticed I’m sure that Iqbal’s personal address was given at the accountants and in her former name.
Oh stop gloating James
20 Jul, 2013 – 11:17 pm. It’s a bit of a character giveaway. If you had read my my post it was in the form of a question based on the photo of the taped off street. No prizes for answering questions and supplying the correct answer I’m afraid.
interesting connections bb
I could say…. “lack of knowledge” ?
That’s not “gloating”. That is “fact”.
If you don’t know, you don’t know…but I guess I would have checked.
And your “post” shows lack of knowledge also.
You found Stedman’s address, then waffled on… but you don’t get “Registered Office” Vs “Trading Address”.
I think you just “waffle” first…and don’t apply thought !
Hence why I may also go over to MZT.
They seemed to have “marked your card”. I kind of like that.
They have little respect for you.
I kind of get that !
“you noticed I’m sure that Iqbal’s personal address was given at the accountants and in her former name”
You’re a fecking idiot !
“1 plus one is…..” Now that is quite apt I think !
James, Tim V – you are fighting over ….an address? or is it writing style/ surely it isn’t substance?
Clearly, this board is beginning to fray — people just keep going over the same information in circles, ever widening. And when that outlives its usefulness then it’s off on some tangent or another.
As I said many times before, discussing motivations is pointless since we don’t really have a clue. And if any of us did, they are either on the inside or not so safe.
The patterns on the other hand could bear some more analysis but no one seems very interested in following up on that. I noticed that my own suggestions to view the patterns again (such as the after – Chevaline behavior which shows every sign of NOT solving the case) have gone un-addressed.
May be we have all gone over it all one too many times, and what’s left is frustration over the lack of further clues, much less any answers.
frustration aside, squabbles are, however, quite unnecessary….
Marlin 19 Jul, 2013 – 7:25 pm
Thanks for your answer.
And I agree with your statement, that we don’t get further cause of biasfilled focus upon all kinds of motives.
Oh James
21 Jul, 2013 – 12:09 am you are so AMUSING.
James don’t bother reading this as there are no bullet points only old fashioned paragraphs and you will only regard it as “waffle” anyway.
Marlin
21 Jul, 2013 – 3:16 am maybe you don’t share my reservations regarding certain contributions to these “rooms”, marked by wild, un-coordinated ideas that throw doubt on any firm overview, and indulge in personal hyperbole, obviously to encourage dissension and disruption. (I liked your lengthy summary of outstanding questions btw. It reflects some of the forty I posed to President Hollande early on. It is significant no answers were forth-coming)
There is no doubt there has been extraordinary British and French reaction to the Chevaline incident. On the part of the French misinformation. On the part of the British, total silence and extremely unusual (armed)protection of Zaid and the girls. This is not “waffle”. It it is indisputable hard fact.
This NEVER happens in the case of “common or garden” murder even if a multiple one. Further it indicates a continuing threat exists, from what quarter we have not been told. This of itself rules out the coincidental criminal or local psychopath. However there remains resistance in some quarters to these obvious inferences.
Then there is the manifestly unusually protective treatment of the girls and Zaid which by EM’s own account prevented the French from direct questioning, even after nine months. In a joint investigation this can only mean one thing: either the the British don’t trust the French or don’t want them to know what might be revealed.
This is further indisputable proof of high level classified covert activity. To argue otherwise is to be intentionally blind to the evidence.
Here’s an example of how the CIA (it could be others I am sure) seek to prevent the unpalatable truth from coming out.
http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/morley-v-cia-jfk-at-issue-in-federal-court-next-week/
It’s worth a read. They did the same to Lindauer as James was pleased to concur with. And many more through time. The approach is well known: ignore; discredit the source; ridicule the argument or person; use national security or other excuse to prevent revelation; cajole or otherwise pressurise using family or interests; intimidate with threats of action or revelation; arresting and imprisoning on real or trumped up charges; forced drug treatments and incarceration in mental institutions; subject to civil or criminal injunctions; and in extremis torture or death either by “suicide”, whilst resisting arrest or posing a threat to law agents, “accident”, murder by known criminals as in the case of LHO, or murder in which the murderer and motivation are concealed (as in Chevaline).
All these are documented FACT not as I am sure James would have us believe, just the product of a vivid overheated imagination.
There is no doubt that secret organisations within the state, operate their own agendas to a certain extent. Cuba, Cambodia, Colonel North, Allende etc. proved that years ago. The ten billion dollars the CIA spends is virtually beyond public examination. Ever country has its own agency. They play an international game that is largely hidden from public view. Individuals are mere pawns in this “game”. Here is another example how this can work.
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/09/16/261853/israel-seeks-to-discredit-obama/
And as to the continuing inter relationship between CIA, Gladio and Israel, here’s just one little quote from the above:
“Terry Jones was 100 times worse. Terry Jones began with the CIA in 1977. Was sent to work in Germany under a CIA-NATO operation known as “Operation Gladio” where he recruited terrorists who were supposed to, in case of a Soviet invasion, stay on in Europe as an underground.
He was thrown out of the CIA because of mental instability and found friends among the Israeli community in the US, and the extremely powerful AIPAC lobby that dictates to the American Congress. “
“According to Lynnae Williams, former CIA clandestine service trainee and DIA analyst, the FBI and CIA use trolls to monitor social media and interact with users to discredit information disseminated on the web. Williams explains that the CIA provides training videos to new recruits on how to troll the internet. Once a target is locked-in, all open source information is obtained on the individual, and then any angle to discredit them in public forum is used on social media sites.
Software is used to sift through the “mountains” of users on social networking sites. At the Atlanta CIA branch where Williams was trained, she personally witnessed CIA-sponsored and sanctioned trolling of Americans on social networking sites.
In 2011, the CIA revealed its Open Source Center where recruited personnel are used as government trolls to “analyze” websites for information pertinent to the objective of the US government – meaning discrediting targets on certain websites. Under the guise of conducting business intelligence (i.e. cyberespionage), the Open Source software gathers digital data on targets; including all Facebook posts, Twitter posts, comments on website threads. Those assigned to monitor this data can interact with users online through anonymous portals. Agents are designated to surveillance operations to message anyone, analyze political and religious speech, assess trends and conduct electronic eavesdropping through cell phones, satellites and other digital apparatus.
Agents not only survey the internet and interact as anonymous persons through directed postings, but also are deployed to wander through the streets domestically and in foreign nations to monitor newspaper and other printed media to extract useful information about the temperament of the general public.”
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2069610/pg1
From above:
“When professional trolls want to attack for copyright infringement, they may combine defamatory comments across the internet with a fraudulent DMCA notice of takedown, to discredit a source of information that they feel threatened by.
The EFF have reported on copyright trolls that experiment with claiming copyright infringement to “extract settlements from individuals.” These trolls “try to grow businesses out of suing Internet users.”
Professional trolls litter the court system with frivolous lawsuits based on wild accusations of copyright infringement in order to wear down the victim as well as hoping to squeeze monetary restitution for fraudulent claims. The members of the alternative media as well as readers need to be aware of these individuals who are cloaked in truth yet rife with disinformation. Their intention is to cut off the free flow of information on the internet and stifle voices that are exposing truth for their own selfish gains.”
Now where have we heard of claiming copyright before now? What a co-incidence.
Who were the “British Tourists” I wonder?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/21/russia-helicopter-crash_n_3631187.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cukt4%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D195931
The original author of that article here I’ve found:
http://www.occupycorporatism.com/cia-sponsored-trolls-monitor-social-media-interact-with-users-to-discredit-factual-information/
“Tomlinson has been living in exile in Geneva since last April. He claims he has seen only a handful of 117 names on the list and all have ‘been blown’ anyway. ‘It mystifies me why M16 gave the list credibility. If they were really worried about the safety of their agents they could have denied it.’
Tomlinson was sacked by MI6 for being ‘unsuitable’. He unsuccessfully tried to take MI6 to an industrial tribunal to get redress, claiming he had been unfairly treated. In 1997 he was jailed for breaking the Offical Secrets Act after threatening to publish a book.
He has implicated MI6 in the death of Princess Diana and has talked of a plot to assassinate President Slobodan Milosevic.
The former MI6 agent was involved with a secret plot to sell chemical weapons to Iran during the early 1990s, which Tomlinson alleges was sanctioned by a senior Tory Minister.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/may/16/duncancampbell.antonybarnett
“As Fox News tells it, at the very moment the British police were supposedly looking high and low for Dewsbury resident Haroon Rashid Aswat, pegged as the London bombing “mastermind,” MI-6 was quietly stowing him away for safe keeping. In fact, they were protecting him as an asset, although we should not expect Fox News to admit this “embarrassing” fact (watch this Fox video). “The Times said Aswat was believed to have had a ten-year association with militant groups, and met Osama bin Laden at [a CIA-ISI built] al-Qaida training camp in Afghanistan,” Breaking News reported almost two weeks ago. “The newspaper said it had obtained FBI documents indicating he was sent to America in 1999 where he had firearms and poison training.”
According to MI-5 counter-intelligence whistleblower David Shayler, “MI-6 is in bed with al Qaeda,” which of course makes perfect sense since al-Qaeda is a masterfully engineered intelligence contrivance (a fake terrorist front organization created through a collaboration between the CIA, ISI, and MI-6) designed to discredit Islam, sow violence and chaos, and bury any possibility of pan-Arab nationalism—or, as the Grand Chessboard master Zbigniew Brzezinski writes, “to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together.”
In 2002, “Tony Blair … ordered a D-Notice [an institutionalized method of censorship, short for short for Defense Notices] on British media reporting government officials signing court gag orders. This regards the case of former MI5 officer David Shayler, who has evidence to prove MI6 gave £100,000 to bin Laden and Al-Qaeda,” Paul Joseph Watson noted, citing an article published in the Guardian. Another famous Londonistan radical, Abu Qatada (accused of being a key al-Qaeda member) was sheltered in a safe house in northern England by MI-6, the BBC reported in 2002. And then there is the story of British intelligence forking out large sums of money to “an al-Qaeda cell in Libya in a doomed attempt to assassinate Colonel Gadaffi in 1996 and thwarted early attempts to bring Osama bin Laden to justice,” the London Observer reported in November, 2002.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/bombing-mastermind-aswat-works-for-mi-6/794