The Extraordinary Rarity of Whistleblowing

by craig on October 19, 2012 12:12 pm in Uncategorized

The outpouring of evidence about Jimmy Savile shows that scores of people working in the BBC, Hospitals, childrens’ homes and even the police knew – not had heard gossip, really knew – about Savile’s paedophilia, but did not blow the whistle.

To me this correlates with the fact that scores of people in the FCO, MI6, MI5, Cabinet Office and other government agencies knew about extraordinary rendition, but did not blow – indeed still have have not blown – the whistle.

Savile had come to be seen as a big and peculiarly “Establishment” figure. The extreme rarity of whistleblowing in society is a strange phenomenon it is worth taking a few minutes to consider. Why did none of those now coming forward with their stories – not the victims, but the eye-witnesses – come forward at the time? Fear is probably the main answer, in particular fear of losing your job if you rock the boat. One problem in modern society is that people’s job is too central to their identity – most people when asked who they are, will reply what work they do. It is not just the need to earn money; your social status and personal relationships are often dependent on your position at work. To lose your job, or to become a social pariah within the organisation where you work, is too much for most people to contemplate.

That is why BBC producers who knew about Savile, saw him at it, did not blow the whistle on one of the Corporation’s biggest stars. It is why so few whistleblowers spontaneously come forward who have seen corruption in local government planning departments or defence procurement, to give an example. For most white collar crime there are people who are not directly involved bu see it and keep quiet. There is also the deterrent of self-incrimination – after a time silence becomes complicity.

In my own case of blowing the whistle on the international torture network, I know for certain that many other Ambassadors and diplomats knew just what was happening, most of them didn’t like it, but nobody but me blew the whistle. One Ambassador sent me a cheery “Rather you than me!” Some were actively complicit by being involved in rendition arrangements, others passively by not trying to stop it. This is why the Gibsom Inquiry into Complicity in Torture was shelved – it could not have proceeded without revealing that scores, possibly hundreds, are guilty, many of them still high-ranking civil servants. It was to protect them and the institutions in which they work, rather than to protect the high profile war criminals like Blair, Straw and Campbell, that the Establishment closes ranks. I always knew I would never be allowed to testify before an Inquiry into Complicity in Torture.

Whistleblowers are not just thrown out of their jobs. They almost never find new employment, as the one quality every employer values above any other quality is loyalty to the employer, right or wrong. Nobody wants a “disloyal” employee, whatever their motives. And if your whistleblowing involves the world of war and spying, they will try to set you up on false charges, like me, like Julian Assange, and not just sack you but destroy you.

Whistleblowers are rare because it is a near suicidal vocation, and everyone else is too scared to help. The Savile case teaches us far more important lessons than the prurient detail of a lurid life. Think about it.

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  1. “Whistleblowers are not just thrown out of their jobs. They almost never find new employment, as the one quality every employer values above any other quality is loyalty to the employer, right or wrong.”

    I worked out too that loyalty to employers is the purpose of certain psychometric tests. I went for a very basic job which involved a psychometric test. There were mistakes in the logic of the questions and how questions were phrased, being geared towards finding out how loyal an employee might be. I could see what they were after but I was not prepared to tell lies. If something is wrong you should question it. I did. I did not get the job.

  2. Agree rare – exquisite – amazing and brave. Valued as leaders in society…

  3. Very true and very sad. This is also how the smear of anti-semitism works, and why it is so powerful in preventing people speaking out against Israeli crimes.

  4. Maybe you should write a book about whistleblowers in general?

  5. Why do people molest children?

  6. There’s also the problem of knowing your report will never be treated seriously, because the behaviour you’re trying to report is normalised and accepted by too many people.

    I know of a group of men who like cutting children’s genitals while others watch – but who the hell can I report this to?

  7. I hope that a video is being made of the speech just made by Deepa Naik outside Isleworth Crown Court. She is the wife of Trenton Oldfield who has been sentenced to six months’ imprisonment for his protest in the Thames in April which was seen by the media as an attack on the Boat Race itself. Shock horror. We can’t have this sort of thing going on in our country.

    Her words were amazing for their truthfulness on the current state of affairs in our ‘democracy’. She covered many aspects of government and even referred to the fact that the Queen signed off the Health and Social Care Act which WILL destroy the NHS. Well done to Sky News for carrying it and to this brave couple.

  8. Prof. Ian Parker of Manchester Metropolitan University was recently suspended on a charge of Gross Misconduct for sending an email asking why an academic appointment process in his department excluded all members of academic staff in that department:

    Bullying in the workplace is rife in the UK and to an extent that goes some way to explaining why people are scared. One of the statements released to the press by the Management at MMU claims that Parker was guilty of insubordination! Should any employee be described as a subordinate? Surely that is a term at home in institutions such as the military or police force, where there are ranks and orders and such-like. But no, university managers it seems see their academic staff as subordinates

  9. However with Savile it was more than just whistleblowing failure, reports were made to several seperate police forces, there were much more than rumours known to journalists, it seemed to be known at the top tiers of the BBC and yet still nothing was done about it until after his death. There is more to this than meets the eye. It is possible that some of the reports have been exaggerated but without a serious no holds barred investigation, we will still not have the whole truth of this affair. As for Craig’s ordeal, if you join the Establishment, the FCO being part of it, then you must expect to find out things that you would rather have not known about, and signing the Official Secrets Act is accepting that you will not blow the whistle.

  10. we only know from the police that no one blew the whistle maybe they did and the police hushed it up.

  11. anyone heard the name “marc dutroux” mentioned in the mainstream media?

  12. How can we best help Julian Assange and other whistleblowers?

    Blow, Blow, Blow those whistles! Spill as much of the corruption into the sunlight as you possible can!

    Come on, folks! Courage is contagious!

  13. More than once I have blown the whistle on paedophiles both within the family and at work, none of it turned out well for me. The stress involved has seriously damaged my health and well being but, having said that, I will continue to expose it when I see it. As in this case with Jimmy Savile many more victims, some of them still children, came forward to be heard – not all of them were believed!

    Well done for having the courage of your convictions.

  14. Bill Maloney did an interview on uk columns youtube channel pretty damning


    bill maloney his brother and sister committed suicide after abuse.

    Bill starts speaking at 37:20

  16. The Jimmy Savile police inquiry becomes a criminal investigation involving other living people, with over 200 potential victims.

    12:38pm UK, Friday 19 October 2012

    Claims against the late DJ go back six decades

    The inquiry into alleged child abuse by Jimmy Savile is now a formal criminal investigation involving other living people, Scotland Yard says.

    Detectives have established there are lines of inquiry involving “living people that require formal investigation”, and Operation Yewtree had moved from an assessment to a criminal investigation.

    Scotland Yard said two weeks of gathering information has involved assessing more than 400 lines of inquiry and has identified more than 200 potential victims.

    The force said: “As we have said from the outset, our work was never going to take us into a police investigation into Jimmy Savile.

    “What we have established in the last two weeks is that there are lines of inquiry involving living people that require formal investigation.”

    More follows…

  17. Even Private Eye knew something, in 1990. But it didn’t dare put it out en clair:

    “Suddenly a figure looking very different began to move towards the satin dais… Jimmy Savile, a man who had devoted his life to the welfare of others, especially the young…. Charles was bewitched by the great man’s informality, charm and infectious enthusiasm. He leaned forward and spoke earnestly to the newly en-knighted philanthropist.

    ‘Fascinating. You really must meet Diana.’
    Sir James looked momentarily puzzled. ‘Is that your daughter, Your Maj?’
    Charles shook his head. ‘No, no, my wife.’
    ‘No thank you very much, Your Maj. Bit old for me. That’s not Jim’s scene at all.’

    What could he mean? Sometimes these holy men spoke in riddles.”

    (Heir of Sorrows, by Sylvie Krin -reprinted in current issue.

  18. how come the murdoch press never exposed Saville?

  19. Recommended reading for the post-PC generation: – Guardian’s Lost In Showbiz

    Great days! As those baby boomers are always so keen to tell us, we certainly won’t see their like again. Who would have believed that this was the kind of climate in which people would simply turn a blind eye to a famous disc jockey and television personality’s rampant paedophile tendencies?

  20. Whistleblowers kept schtum for some of the reasons you cite, Craig.

    There’s one point to add, though:

    It seems that there were plenty of complaints made by victims or their families, but that the police were generally not inclined to investigate. Why was this? Was it, again, that there was too much deference paid to a successful man who raised a lot of money for charity and was a friend of royalty?

    In some cases, it seems Savile or those in his circle may have intervened to crush newspaper stories about his activities.

    It seems to me that men like Savile deliberately court authority figures at whatever level of the organization. We need to know how many police officers were interacting socially/received hospitality, etc, from Savile, the production team on his shows, the BBC. Were there any particular officers or forces that were continually employed by Savile during his activities, and so on.

    A police investigation that doesn’t examine their own behaviour will be the usual partial exercise, but I won’t be holding my breath.

    Expect a few celebrity suicides in the coming weeks.

  21. if a child was being molested they could ring childline a hotline run by ex bbc presenter

  22. This is off topic but very important. Please distribute this video about a possible false flag event to wage war on Iran.

  23. LOL @ John Goss.

  24. Despite what you write here, I take it you will still STAND by your opinion that 9-11 was pretty much what the official narrative because someone would have blown the whistle by now.

  25. @Lwtc247

    You’re right. Clearly Jimmy Savile was behind the events of 9/11.

  26. Mr Whitcher – are you a troll or just stupid?

  27. Coincidentally I published a post yesterday on this very topic.It’s so important to speak out and because of my research in the cultural sector, and the book I published last year, I am also campaigning to halt bullying in the arts.

  28. kingfelix. Please, it’s an important and serious point.

  29. “That is why BBC producers who knew about Savile, saw him at it, did not blow the whistle on one of the Corporation’s biggest stars”

    I think there is a reasonable distinction to be made – one you are not making here – between “whistle-blowing” and “reporting a crime to the police”.

  30. @Lwtc247

    “Please, it’s an important and serious point.”

    I can see what your point is. However, I made light of it because there’s a flaw in your logic.

  31. Kingfelix…..Now then, now then!

  32. Lwtc247,

    Kingfelix is right – you are delivering vicious and perverse rumor.

  33. Lwtc,

    If by that you mean the buildings were brought down as a result of planes laden with jet fuel smashing into them, as opposed to the use of controlled explosives, then yes, I go for the official story.

  34. Any views on Building 7, which came down in an identical manner, yet was not hit by planes laden with jet fuel?

  35. Anne-Marie Quigg,

    I agree the ‘Art Council’ does has vested interest, yet most bidding systems, especially local council, are corrupt.

    Maria Alekhina, Nadezhda Tolokonnikova do not deserve a ‘penal colony’ prison sentence. I have written to Putin asking him to review the law regarding the terms of sentencing in pre-trial detection centers.

  36. Building 7 – an elaborate deception perpetrated by lizards from Mars on behalf of the Jooo/Masonic/NWO/ Illuminati elite at the request of Queen Elizabeth? Or collapse in some way related to being hit by debris and burning out of control for hours? Only a civil engineer could believe the latter, of course, but you decide…

    It takes that much research.

  37. If you believe wikipedia on sensitive political issues you’ll believe anything.

  38. It is a put down, derisive and a contempt for professional and valid facts and wisdom, that over 1700 scientists, architects and building engineers are pooh-poohed, passed over and tuned out from the evidence they present that tells us in simple, unambiguous words and images, that the attacks on the World Trade Buildings as told by the official government reports are adulterated, falsified, distorted and disguised. Another inquiry must be convened from more honest American folk.

    Any doubts should be dispelled, eliminated and dismissed by just listening, observing and thinking here:

    With thanks to Colorado Public Television.

  39. If you believe wikipedia on sensitive political issues you’ll believe anything.

    Hmmm. If I believe a random anonymous poster on a blog, what will I believe?

  40. A most publicized case is now being exploited just to hide that it is really the tip of the iceberg, as they say.

    The whole problem is that we live under police states of a fascist nature where much of what is going on is veiled from us because of the highly structured covert nature of its systems where too few people, especially officials, really know what is going on, and are prevented from disclosing hardly anything that is going on, thanks to cowed representative bodies, a media which is kept in line by all kinds of prohibitions, advisories, and back channels, and the employees themselves are prevented from disclosing illegal and corrupt practices, thanks to the conditions of their employment, the laws about disloyalty, and the most feeble nature of any oversight.

    We are all so confused about what is going on that we grab on anything which seems to be revealing, whether it be false whistleblowers like Assanage and Wikileaks, internet posters who seems to be off the official agenda, and blogs which suggest something entirely different.

    In the old days, the Nazis justified it by calling it a dual state where the so-called bad guys got exposed, and punished while the apparently good guys sailed right along without any trouble.

    We live in a much more mixed-up world, but the outcome is much the same.

  41. Mark Golding,

    1,700 scientists, architects and building engineers represent a miniscule of the totality of scientists, architects and building engineers throughout the world and indeed the US.

    Just as one can find a relatively tiny number of scientists who deny evolution or climate change if you were to look hard enough, so you will find a body of scientists, architects and building engineers who claim that the buildings couldn’t possibily have been brought down by what millions of people saw with their own eyes on television, namely planes laden with jet fuel smashing into them.

  42. resident dissident

    19 Oct, 2012 - 4:03 pm

    Of course those who blow the whistle on the whistleblowers are by definition just CIA stooges!

  43. I departed work with the RELEASE COLLECTIVE in the spring of 1983 after about an 8 year stint. I left because I was absolutely livid at the truly dishonest way I had been treated by an organisation I had had very very high hopes for when I’d joined – the behaviour had became utterly despicable. I was paid off with 2 Grand ONLY on the basis that I never ever spoke about what my concerns had been. If an on the face of it outward going reputable libertarian organisation can do an “Operation Cover Up” its hardly surprising that less idealistic outfits keep stoom.

  44. Mark: The reports may indeed be distorted, falsified, etc, but they are reasonably unanimous that a plane crashed into each of the twin towers, and they collapsed. To invoke deliberate sabotage by the USG to account for the collapse is unnecessary, and there are good structural reasons why they collapsed as they did. In addition to some very sloppy workmanship on the part of the builders. The firefighters’s account of the collapse of Building 7 does not require intentional demolition.

    Nor do Jews/Arabs dancing on the rooftops require anything more than delight that a MidEast casus belli has been created/a hated symbol has been demolished. Etc, et effing c. See Occam’s Razor.

    But enough of this. Whistleblowing is one thing (and as correctly indicated above, there don’t seem to be any actual whistleblowers in a position to know here, merely conspiracy theorists fuelled by a confused and initially slowly-evolving official account). Think there’s a paper trail to back your ideas up, theorists? Find it, then. Until then, gravity, heat, dynamics and hijackers (I do not say whose) are enough for me.

  45. Mark’s video above provides compelling evidence from experts in the field. They aren’t convinced by the official account. Some of them even seem to think it negates the laws of physics.

    Nutters, eh.

  46. they all knew from top down.
    he was after all the governments man yes no

    what of the deceiving D notice
    lord of leeds.

    by the clicking of his ring encrusted thumbs, something wicked this way comes.

    Esther Rantzen,he deceived us all….

    tosh and tittle and tattle tis just word play my lord.
    the upright knights of engerlund the lords and fine ladies of bbc.
    are hag esther had full reports given.
    are members of court and cabinet briefed.
    all had eye or heard of foul deed.
    all knew all guilty.
    the sin of averted gaze.
    the covering of ears from scream.
    the guilt of child sodomy,the ringing of the neck.
    the hanging of the body.
    the wallowing and the blood.

    but soft i hear fowl murdoch approacheth.
    with outlandish ike conspire racy tales of

    Foul Unnatural deeds
    that breed unnatural troubles in Cankered infected minds.



  48. I can spot a troll a mile off Daniel.

  49. sir sa vile of leeds
    was after all a doctor and a government man.

    The Earl of Dundee My Lords, I should like to join other noble Lords in congratulating the noble Earl, Lord Longford, on putting down this very apt Unstarred Question. It further demonstrates the level of determination on penal matters which has long been associated with the noble Earl.

    i should like to turn to the special hospitals service run by the Department of Health. Your Lordships will know that there are now new management plans. These plans have already affected Broadmoor Hospital. The prime objectives of this service are to protect the public and to give the patient the right treatment and a good quality of life. The special hospital service is intended to be closely linked to the psychiatric services provided by district health authorities. Special hospitals themselves are to be used as training centres to encourage trained staff in 525 various branches of psychiatry. The hospitals will also be used for research into forensic psychiatry and related conditions.

    A new special health authority is planned to oversee the operations of the four hospitals. Perhaps I may give some details to the noble Lord, Lord Allen, who inquired about them.

    The noble Baroness, Lady Ewart-Biggs, asked me about the special hospitals’ complaints procedure. This is still under active consideration and will be introduced as soon as possible.

    I should like briefly to refer again to Broadmoor, about which the noble Lord, Lord Allen, has spoken. The activities of the Broadmoor Hospital Board were suspended during August and the operational management of the hospital is in the hands of a specially formulated task force whose best known member is Dr. Jimmy Savile. Dr. Savile has been involved with the work of Broadmoor Hospital for many years and is now devoting his considerable talents to ensuring that the hospital functions smoothly during this difficult interim period before the new special health authority comes into being.

    doctor savile with his new special hospital wing and his extra special techniques.
    and nobody talks about taking peter sutcliffe out for long spells.
    the ripper as muscle in a rolls royce allowed out with sir jim to rape and kill again.
    but just words.
    i mean the young girl talk the bbc it is all just rumour innit and the bbc never lie just ask are lady esther.

  50. [Mod/Clark: Deleted. Sorry, MJ.]

  51. We have speculated aplenty on Craig’s blog re: Fox/Werrity, etc.

    But what I feel is that the fertile ground some of our trolls of today are seeking here does not exist, strangely enough.

    May I suggest why? Because, upon reflection, the orientation of Komodo, Mark, John, is towards the live issues of the day. I notice, also, that those who are most invested in determining that */** is a vast conspiracy are never interested in the geopolitics that flow from that event.

    Right now, we need to know more about the human networks and shifting alliances of our political leaders, not be delving into the arcana of the melting points of steel.

    In that sense, there *is* a dark politics, but that is not synonymous with subscribing to UFOs, Men in Black, or lizards from Alpha Centauri.

    As Craig’s post addresses, the concealment of wrongdoing arises from extremely quotidian and everyday concerns. There are plenty of strong ideologies, there are innumerable weird creeds, but how many of them are stronger than the simple urge to break ranks, and in so doing, to put one’s career on the line? Who wants to go home and try and explain to their spouse that they have stood up on a point of principle and that the cost will now be the probable destruction of their future prospects and of their present lifestyle?

    That was the point, it seemed to me. Instead of applying this rather simple principle to a few test cases and seeing how strong an explanatory framework it provides, there are others who’d rather immediately summon up the notion that Savile’s abuse was sustained by mass meetings in underground caverns, where ancient gods were invoked, and those present swore complicated allegiances of blood to one another.

    Instead, we’re there with the ‘banality of evil’ type approach, of keeping one’s head down and one’s mouth shut and certainly not asking questions. Indeed, this last point can be seen in sharp relief when you look at Savile’s interactions with journalists, he makes continual references to how journalists are constantly transgressing by ‘asking too many questions’. He shows the media as being like the police but without the police’s powers. Maybe that’s why he liked to toy with them.

  52. Komodo,

    While your hanging out with the males investigating sloppy workmanship I was stuck here all day cleaning up the nest and defending your eggs against all your other mates!

  53. Mod/Clark: Thanks Kingfelix. Yes, the line between good and evil is drawn across every human heart and mind. Conspiracies exists, of course, but grand conspiracy theorising serves to externalise personal morality onto some untouchable cabal.

  54. Just a fraction of what Deepa Naik said:

    Oldfield’s wife Deepa Naik said outside court the punishment dished out to her husband wouldn’t deter him from protesting again on his release from jail.

    “He has a strong spirit and he stands by what he did,” she said.

    She said the custodial sentence was a reflection of the fears of the establishment over Oldfield’s actions.

    “Most nation states work very hard at maintaining untrue myths about themselves,” she said.

    “Great Britain has convinced many that it is the home of democracy and a gauge of civilisation.

    “Anyone living here today knows Britain is a brutal, deeply divided class-driven place.

    “London is today the most unequal society in the western world. This poverty and inequality is totally unnecessary and has been severely exacerbated by government cuts and reductions in civil liberties.”

    She called on Australians to voice their disapproval over the ruling.

    “Please come out and make your concern known as much as possible in solidarity with Trenton,” she said.

  55. Mark – They’re MY eggs? Thought you made that lot yourself. But thanks!

  56. Clark/mods/Craig. I didn’t want this thread to deviate towards the whole ball-game of 911 – I know there is a thread dedicated to that. My question is highly relevant given he dismissed it on the basis that nobody blew the whistle (as well as technicalities of wiring of the buildings for controlled demolition). His post here is a very powerful ‘universal solvent’ against his own past stated position. Surely Craig should reflect and have a serious rethink. Thanks.

  57. “I know there is a thread dedicated to that”

    Unfortunately comments are closed.

  58. ‘The Savile case teaches us far more important lessons than the prurient detail of a lurid life. Think about it.’

    Savile was not just a paedophile, he was close to the security forces, Zionism, the BBC, the Establishment, the professions of Law, medicine, psychology and politics.

    The important lesson is the nature of our Establishment that they were happy to associate with him. The promiscuous revolution which took place under Thatcher was a societal shift in which influential people decided that the next generation was not going to be brought up sexually handcuffed to conventional morality, and they would pimp their daughters wilfully and intentionally to whatever sexual chances were around.

    This was the mindset of the intelligentsia and wealthy people of the 1970s. For them, the possibility of oppression of vulnerable young people was irrelevant. They wanted their own children to have sexual freeddom which they themselves had been denied.

    Savile was a guru for them, his perversion an untidy side-effect of the Zionist-inspired transformation of UK society from Christian values to free-for-all.

    Are you going to prosecute a whole generation for this change. Savile is a hero of the sexual revolution, who is now in the process of being sanitised before being sainted.

    Truth is painful for the likes of Craig, who worship at the altar of sexual freedom. Savile was a small monster in Jurassic Park of far greater monsters. I include them all, Mrs Thatcher, Tony Blair, the BBC. Prosecute them all.

  59. Moderation Notice:

    Comments on the 9/11 Post are now open again. Here’s a link:

  60. @lwtc247

    You believe what you believe. You are again missing the point. 1/ It doesn’t matter, does it, to you, really, to have Craig reassert/shift position.

    And 2/ The logical flaw is to believe that when there are two events, independent of one another, that discovery of the cause of one has any bearing upon the other.

    That is why I said, with superior logic to your own, that Jimmy Savile was clearly behind */** because that then would provide the link that would justify the linking together of these two (so far) utterly unconnected occurrences.

    There, is that any easier to understand?

    And I should’ve name-checked Clark and Mary, too, in terms of their orientation. I always appreciate the concrete nature of Mary’s research into links between the various players. She shines a light on webs/networks, without then postulating some consciously organized clique that all gather round a table every few months to determine the destiny of the UK/EU/UN/mankind/the galaxy…

  61. I think that people are interested in the geopolitical fallout too, including the restriction of civil liberties at home.

    When we think how we may exit this Kafkaesque bollocks we might reflect that there appear to be two doors. One involves escalating war bringing its own conclusion. The other involves some form of revolution in the US, since that is the power which determines everything for the rest of us in UK and Europe.

    If it can be shown that the unmentionable was a false flag that might encourage the Americans to revolt, at least in political terms. That would change everything.


    An Israeli Ex-IAF Pilot on Board Swedish Boat To Gaza

    Friday 19th October, Spokesperson of Gush Shalom, Adam Keller, said in a press release that Israeli peace activist Yonatan Shapira, who had been a combat pilot in the Israeli Air Force and refused to take part in the bombing of Palestinian cities, has arrived on board the Swedish boat “Estelle” which is making her way towards the coast of Gaza. When the Estelle passed near the shores of Greece, Shapira and other activists made their way in a motor boat, evading vessels of the Greek Coast Guard which sought to bar their way. “Along with the Greek Coast Guard we saw a ship which seemed very much like an Israeli Navy vessel, though it did not fly a flag” said Shapira. He was received with cheers by activists already on board. Shapira had taken part in a similar sailing last year, being taken off by Israeli Navy Commandos near the Gaza shore and spending time in police detention, but not charged with any criminal offence.

  63. Guano, honestly, you don’t need Zionists to get people running after sex. It was the ’60s and the invention of the contraceptive pills that started all that. And commercialism has sexualised everything, in the pursuit of advertising, appealing to basic human drives, etc.

    Personal sexual liberty is unconnected with paedophilia.

  64. I have been watching a debate from the SNP conference on ch 81. Very interesting and old style politics where you hear all sides of the question from informed and impassioned speakers, so unlike the lame stage-managed Nu NuLab, Con and LibDem conferences where dissent is neither seen or heard.

    The question being discussed is about leaving NATO and getting rid of Trident and nuclear weapons from Scottish soil and waters. Salmond and co wants to keep the status quo until after/if independence is achieved, ie a postponement of any decision.

    A link here but I have not read through to see if it is representative of what I have been hearing and seeing.

  65. @Herbie

    Indeed. It’s what that Orlov guy has been going on about for how many years – anticipate the collapse of society by adopting a lifestyle that is simple enough to absorb it when it comes.

    One reason we may entertain the notion we are being continually deceived is that government, with it’s superior means of data collection and powers of analysis, has already become aware, some time ago/a long time ago, that the present social order is doomed, but that politically it is impossible to level with the electorate.

    I would not call that a conspiracy theory, but it does mean that the interests of the public are not served by listening and acting upon the dictates of politicians, and that there may be a set of class interests that run through the mainstream parties that commit all of them to not opening up regarding the probable impacts coming our way from climate change/oil running out.

    This might also explain the role of the Lib Dems in the coalition at a time of austerity. The idea being to closely biind all three parties into a particular line of action. We do, after all, despite the odd kerfuffle, be seem to be living under a government of national unity, pretty much, at a time of austerity, in conditions of more or less permanent foreign war.

    What Craig’s blog rests upon, it seems to me, is the recognition of these interests that are capable of transcending party lines, that are more ‘real’ than any particular policy position or declaration of humanitarian principles, and so on. And, of course, which almost never see the light of day, yet are everywhere, forming a subtext that shapes all sorts of decisions. It’s rather similar to the ‘offshore’ of Nicholas Shaxson’s Treasure Islands, once you are familiar with the concept, it’s astonishing how often it pops up as a dimension of all kinds of previously seemingly unconnected events.

    Craig seems to be an idealist in believing that the law could be applied and a better outcome achieved. With regards to Uzbekistan, the primary benefit would be for the people of that nation, should the much vaunted ‘international community’ apply sanctions of the type that Iran is now labouring under. Positive change might be forced.

    On the other hand, where the UK has interacted with much stronger nations than Uzbekistan, the primary benefits of applying law would be to the benefit of the UK’s democracy (over and above the howls of those doing well out of the present arrangement). I have a close friend who rubbed shoulders with the Saudi royals, and she said that *any* nation that has business dealings with them will destroy their own ethical bases, because that is the natural outgrowth of interacting with a group who advocate wholesale bribery as a modus operandi.

    I would hardly say she’s been proved wrong. The Saudi influence has certainly been malign in matters pertaining to the UK arms industry.

  66. Mary indeed deserves credit; her tireless digging into public records is a valuable asset to this blog.

    Kingfelix, thanks for the vote of confidence. It can get a bit crazy at times, looking after this place.

  67. Sorry Clark. Having looked on the 9/11 thread (1800+ comments!) I put this comment on. Could you please delete it from that thread.

    [Mod/Clark: Done.]

    A Bullingdon boy in action. To be a pleb or not to be a pleb, that is the question.

  68. kingfelix. Actually yes it does matter as Craig’s stance on the whistleblowers aspect of 911 has, by his own argument, highlighted an important inconsistency. Craig does have influence and IF 911 was something very different from what we are asked to believe, then, as this thread shows, people should speak out against it. Craig is a highly respectable chap. His opinions do matter; He has the ability to persuade others and open their minds, like he does about many other issues. I’ll not say any more on the issue, but look forward to Craig’s reply – if he will do me the honour.

  69. @lwtc247

    It matters to you, certainly.

    Has it not crossed your mind that Craig’s respectability might just derive from *not* subscribing to…

    Oh, never mind.

  70. kingfelix. You are consistently misrepresenting my position. Please don’t. Cheers.

  71. You have to go deeper Clark – there may well be a link with sexual liberty and paedophilia. We sow the seeds of sexual awareness and curiosity by teaching infants the biology of sex and maybe sexual disease and how it spreads. I think we must learn how to broaden this picture even at a tender age.

    For example, when is kissing okay? Necking? Petting? How can you tell if he or she loves you? What to do if someone pressures you to have sex? What if you like that person or think you are in love? These are difficult topics to broach with children.

    I believe parents have a responsibility to help children develop into responsible and responsive human beings who celebrate their sexuality but who also do not exploit others or do not know how to stop others from exploiting them.

  72. lwtc247, I think you’re probably at crossed-purposes with Craig. As a former diplomat, Craig thinks of “false flag” as a secret action by the state apparatus itself. Here’s a quote that you may have forgotten from Craig’s original 9/11 Post:

    “As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.”

    …which basically only rules out actual US policy. I don’t think you disagree with Craig as much as you think.

    But please post any further discussion to here:

  73. @lwtc247

    Why don’t you just email Craig directly and spare us your nonsense.

  74. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    19 Oct, 2012 - 5:41 pm

    Clark; Why the mod on 9/11. Sounds serious.

  75. Thanks for that, Felix. Very interesting.

    When you talk about the concept of offshore in legislation and policy etc, do you mean get-out clauses for corporates?

  76. Mark Golding:

    Something I think is relevant to your points above is the large amount of shame and embarrassment felt by many adults about sexual matters, and adult suppression of early childhood play that can be interpreted as “too sexual” by adults, this latter also driven by the fear of gossip, loss of reputation and/or getting into legal trouble. Remember also that under British law, a child can become listed as a paedophile for sex play with another child of similar age.

    Children pick up on these insecurities of adults, and it puts up a barrier, so children maybe shy away from telling adults about events that seem to be connected with sex; children know they aren’t supposed to be involved, so they fear “getting into trouble”. This leaves children more vulnerable to exploitation.

    [O/T – I received and successfully decrypted an e-mail from you. I thought I’d replied, but looking in my Sent Items I can’t find it. Curious. I’ll look more carefully and e-mail again…]

  77. Ben, 9/11 just has a tendency to take over other topics, so Craig created a thread especially for it, and made a “no diversion of threads onto 9/11” rule.

  78. @Herbie

    If you put together John Perkins’ Confessions of an Economic Hit Man with Nicholas Shaxson’s Treasure Islands, then some of the relationships become clearer.

    I am not only talking about corporate behaviour, but why did this offshore system develop, who controls it, what is it used to accomplish, what have been its consequences, and so on, and what can we expect in future.

    In the form of Haut de la Guerenne, to go back on topic, for example, we see the power of the small island of Jersey to limit the potential for whistle blowers (by ostracising and threatening internal opposition and by barring foreigners), whether it be regarding murky financial details or paedophilia. Shaxson deals with it well in his book. The corollary to this would be to think of a place like BBC Television Centre as being possessed of something of an island mentality (the Houses of Parliament and the Lords are further examples). The interesting thing about Savile, of course, is that he actively sought out these closed worlds and moved between them freely in order to fulfil his desires – prisons, mental hospitals, hospitals, mortuaries, orphanages, the inner circle of the Royal Family, etc. His fame and his charity work gave him leverage – who knows how it worked, maybe some of these institutions were manned by sympathetic paedophiles, maybe some wanted the money that Savile’s links would bring, and maybe some were simply sincere (and/or flattered) by his attention.

  79. Clark

    It is not at all obvious to children that a means of avoiding pregnancy, and now disease, is a green light to sexual freedom.
    Even for young adults it is not an obvious progression from having sexual relationships to sexual promiscuity.

    For that to happen, parents have to give an active green light.
    Savile was a salivator for sexual salvation. Don’t always rush to defend Craig. Savile was clearly a sexual icon for the establishment, or they would have binned him.

  80. Good point Clark – thank-you.

  81. Thanks again, Felix. Just watched Shaxson’s interviews and look forward to reading his book.

    I’d come across the idea of this emerging neo-feudalism before, but you’ve certainly provided additional focus. I’ve perhaps concentrated too much on the corporate aspect, neglecting the institutional and other elements.

    Good stuff!

  82. Guano, I’m not defending Craig. I like my sexual liberty myself, thanks. Many people who knew the details might consider me depraved, but I consider them up-tight idiots. But none of my sexual fun has ever led me to lust after a child. Quite the opposite. The brain, they say, is the biggest erogenous zone, and imagination develops with age.

    “For that to happen, parents have to give an active green light.”

    Or just fail to take any notice, while the commercial, corporate media does it’s work, selling by sex, sending the message:

    “You’re no one if you’re unattractive, and attractiveness is demonstrated by how many partners you can pull. Here, buy this! And you’ll prove your sexual prowess! Be proud! Be confident!”

    Our Frank had a filthy mind, started out making soundtracks for porn, but he knew where the real problems come from:

  83. We are told by Ceop thaty paedophiles are highly organised amongst each other, that they inform each other of ‘opportunities’, even bragg how easy it is to abuse children.

    Why is not a single news rag mention other famous vistor’s to Haute La Garenne, why is the inquiery not being re-opened? when there are so obviously new lines of inquiries opening up, is it too uncomfortable for some?

    Who else has been mentioned by the victims as regular visitors? Who knew those who were found dead? but nothing was found proofing anyone responsible. The interconnections, the same faces reoccurring, visiting hospitals, Broadmoor, children’s homes, the BBC’s exec. cupboards, hidden away somewhere, all this should be running at high speed, not undertaken with kid gloves, carefully concentrating on one figure and on one figure alone.

    The reactions into this case are already making this into the biggest pile ever uncovered, the timidness of the whole process makes it obvious that this pin has deflated the ballon, hit the casus belli.

    The ongoing cover up from others implicated or accused, still living persons, should be visible on somewhere on the dark net, if CEOP really has their finger on the pulse they will pick up something.

    Are they already being held back?

  84. kingfelix 19 Oct, 5:58 pm:

    “we see the power of the small island of Jersey to limit the potential for whistle blowers (by ostracising and threatening internal opposition and by barring foreigners), whether it be regarding murky financial details or paedophilia”

    Spot on! Unchecked power always goes with secrecy, and secrecy is the enabler of corruption.

    The line between good and evil cuts through ever human soul. How many have chosen not to blow the whistle because they feared that their little piece of (probably completely unrelated) corruption might get exposed if the cover of secrecy was torn away.

  85. Unable to face the music and to sit facing the opposition heckling, Mitchell slides out. What next? A peerage perhaps? Cameron is losing it methinks. Not a good week with his energy balls up in PMQ.

    Mitchell resigns

    PS I am informed that Sa Vile was a freemason and if so, that would account for some of the protection.

  86. Surrey County Council are keen to wash their hands of any responsibility for what happened at Duncroft.

    ‘Meanwhile, Surrey County Council has confirmed it is looking into how Duncroft was managed during the 1970s, a period when Savile was said to have carried out attacks on girls there.

    Stanwell resident Andrew McLuskey, who asked the council’s Spelthorne Local Committee for a full report into the running of the children’s home, said: “It is absolutely right and proper. Duncroft was a miniature of what the man [Savile] got up to. I hope they proceed to get to the bottom of it.”


    Writing in reply to Mr McLuskey’s request, Councillor Mary Angell, cabinet member for children and families, said Duncroft was a government-run approved school until 1974, when it then became a community home under the National Association for Mental Health, now known as MIND.

    Cllr Angell wrote: “It is known that Jimmy Savile visited Duncroft regularly and allegations have been made that he sexually abused a number of young girls [who were] resident there.

    “Given the length of time that has passed since the incidents it has proved difficult to track down exactly what contact there was with Surrey, but so far our enquiries do not indicate that Surrey County Council ever had any responsibility for the management oversight of Duncroft.

    “We are currently contacting MIND to ask them for a copy of the Instrument of Management that was agreed at the time, and which local authority held primary responsibility.

    “We are currently co-operating with Surrey Police in following up any other complaints that might arise. At present, there is no information to suggest that any of the victims were the responsibility of Surrey Social Services at the time. However, we will continue with our enquiries.”‘

  87. Great post by Craig. Lots of interesting comments. I agree with most.

    The mechanism of commercial confidentiality, meant to protect, say, the chemical formula for a specific product or whatever, now typically has been extended in Orwellian fashion to obscure systemic incompetance and malevolence in public and private sector bodies. It is simply shocking, for example, that NHS consultants, GPs and other NHS staff are gagged (that is the word that commonly is used) from talking publically about the most important things to do with the running/ privatisation/uber-managerialism, etc. of the NHS. This runs totally counter to the principles and practice of a democratic society. Why is there not more fuss about this? Personally, I think they should pick a day and rebel, en masse, speak publically about everything and tell the Neo-liberal Stalinists to take a running jump. Solidarity, and some degree of anarchic Yippie-dom, is what is reqd.

    Parky, esp. suggests something even more sinister wrt the Savile case and I wonder if that might be accurate. Someone also mentioned Dutroux. Was Savile procuring children for abuse for Establishment figures in a systemic manner? Did MI5 know of this – they must have known of his own massive child abuse, as they vetted all BBC employees. So, why didn’t they say/do something? Were they protecting Establishment figures, so they could blackmail them, potentially and/or just because the security and intelligence services see protection of the Establishment as their main function? And why has it all – or rather, selective bits – suddenly come out, now? One of the regular posters here, Roderick Russell has penned a poignant piece on this angle. I’m sure he won’t mind me sharing the link here.

  88. I’m very unsure of the potential for this problem being reversed in favour of whistleblowing. I think people are only willing to come forward when they care enough and are confident that there is a critical mass of complainants with first hand knowledge of offences who are reliably willing to support each other. In Jimmy Savile’s case, the critical mass was brought together through media reports which could be safely made after his death. It might take a change in UK libel laws to allow media to report on isolated but credible allegations of wrongdoing regarding living persons. Although a more powerful media could have unintended consequences.

  89. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    19 Oct, 2012 - 7:33 pm


    “The brain, they say, is the biggest erogenous zone, and imagination develops with age.”

    Key point; Sexual imprinting leaves many with early experiences, whether of legal age or not, with deep learning which seeks replication. It’s a daisy-chain for victims, who often end up victimizers.

  90. @Ben – “Key point; Sexual imprinting leaves many with early experiences, whether of legal age or not, with deep learning which seeks replication. It’s a daisy-chain for victims, who often end up victimizers.”

    Good point. But it’s not just sexual imprinting at an early age, it’s all sorts of behaviours and habits. Ask yourself what your favourite food is and it just might be one that you ate a lot of as a child.

    But back to sex.. What are adults to do with their memories of sexual behaviour as children? Convention says they should feel self-loathing, as if that were healthy.

  91. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    19 Oct, 2012 - 7:54 pm


    ” Convention says they should feel self-loathing, as if that were healthy.”

    Guilt; as if they should have any. Abuse takes many forms, including psychological, which some view as the least damaging, in error.

  92. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    19 Oct, 2012 - 7:57 pm

    Lest we stray too far from topic…had my say on that.

  93. Suhayl Saadi 19 Oct, 7:14 pm:

    “Did MI5 know of this – they must have known of his own massive child abuse, as they vetted all BBC employees. So, why didn’t they say/do something? Were they protecting Establishment figures, so they could blackmail them […]?”

    I think this is likely. I think a lot of this goes on. Covert control through “intelligence” and blackmail. Vices are useful, and the corporate media are forever inciting outrage about vices in and of the general population.

    Jemand at 19 Oct, 7:32 pm:

    “…people are only willing to come forward when […] there is a critical mass of complainants with first hand knowledge of offences who are reliably willing to support each other.”

    Yep. Organise, collaborate, overcome the divisions. Be courageous, even if it means being howled at by the gutter press for our own minor peccadilloes. How many times have we read the slurs about Craig and Nadira? And in the end, does it matter?

  94. Jemand at 19 Oct, 7:49 pm

    “But back to sex.. What are adults to do with their memories of sexual behaviour as children? “

    Cherish them, and play them for all they’re worth, with your adult partner(s). There’s plenty of fun to be had, and it’s very popular, though rarely mentioned. Spanking? That’s a childhood experience, isn’t it? How many top-shelf magazines have “saucy school-girl” features with adult models? Who likes a bit of slapstick, getting messy like kids? None of it is a problem… until it has to be hidden away. Then it can be used for coercion.

  95. Yes, I think just about everyone, except some very wealthy law firms who allegedly represent dictators and the like, accepts that UK libel laws now are out of control and that the law in this area has become an ass. US libel laws are much more sensible. I’ve read that in the UK, if it gets to court, 90% of libel cases are successful, while in the USA it is exactly the opposite. Perhaps a greater proportion of cases in the USA get to court, though, I don’t know. But judges in the USA will quickly throw out a stupid case of alleged libel. I think Kenneth Clark, ex-Justice Secretary was trying to reform the UK libel laws, I’m not sure whether he succeeded. And now he’s been moved in essence out of power.

  96. More Frank. Warning, explicit lyrics:

  97. I’d just like to pay tribute to my dear departed friend Martyn Seago. He guided me through some of my early psychedelic experiences, and it was he who introduced me to the music of Frank Zappa. I was an up-tight young man. I loved Zappa’s music, he always used the best musicians, and it was said that his bands were only so tight because he was such a slave-driver. But his lyrics were filthy, and it was only with great embarrassment that I could withstand some of them. Nowadays, they just make me laugh. What on Earth can it possibly matter what one does with those little pieces of erectile tissue? So long as everyone knows what they’re getting into, and no one is coerced, which is only the same as anything else…

    My friend Martyn got the bowel cancer. I was at his bedside in Hull general infirmary in 2003, shortly after the tumour was declared inoperable. Together we watched the rip-off Patientline pay-as-you-die telly. We watched the statue of Saddam Hussein being pulled down by a bulldozer. We didn’t need to say anything; we both could see that it was staged.

    RIP Martyn.

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