CIA Look to Swamp Correa

by craig on October 22, 2012 10:13 am in Uncategorized

About a month ago I asked a former colleague in the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office what Hague saw as the endgame in the Julian Assange asylum standoff, and where the room for negotiation lay. My friend was dismissive – the policy was simply to wait for the Presidential election in Ecuador in February. The United States and allies were confident that Correa will lose, and my friend and I having both been senior diplomats for many years we understood what the United States would be doing to ensure that result. With Correa replaced by a pro-USA President, Assange’s asylum will be withdrawn, the Metropolitan Police invited in to the Embassy of Ecuador to remove him, and Assange sent immediately to Sweden from where he could be extradited to the United States to face charges of espionage and aiding terrorism.

I have been struck by the naivety of those who ask why the United States could not simply request Assange’s extradition from the United Kingdom. The answer is simple – the coalition government. Extradition agreements are government to government international treaties, and the decision on their implementation is ultimately political and governmental – that is why it was Teresa May and not a judge who took the final and very different political decisions on Babar Ahmad and Gary Mackinnon.

CIA supporters in the UK have argued vociferously that it would be impossible for Sweden to give Assange the assurance he would not be extradited to the United States, with which he would be prepared to return to Sweden to see off the rather pathetic attempted fit-up there. In fact, as extradition agreements are governmental not judicial instruments, it would be perfectly possible for the Swedish government to give that assurance. Those who argue otherwise, like Gavin Essler and Joan Smith here, are not being truthful – I suspect their very vehemence indicates that they know that.

Most Liberal Democrat MPs are happy to endorse the notion that Assange should be returned to Sweden to face sexual accusations. However even the repeatedly humiliated Lib Dem MPs would revolt at the idea that Assange should be sent to face life imprisonment in solitary confinement in the United States for the work of Wikileaks. That is why the United States has held off requesting extradition from the United Kingdom, to avoid the trouble this would cause Cameron. I am not speculating, there have been direct very senior diplomatic exchanges on this point between Washington and London.

There was confidence that the Correa problem would soon pass, but the State Department has since been shocked by the return of Hugo Chavez. Like Correa, senior US diplomats had convinced themselves – and convinced La Clinton – that Chavez was going to lose. The fury at Chavez’s return has led to a diktat that the same mistake must not be made in Ecuador.

CIA operations inside Ecuador are in any case much less disrupted than in Venezuela. I learn that the US budget, using mostly Pentagon funds, devoted to influencing the Ecuadorean election has, since the Venezuelan result, been almost tripled to US $87 million. This will find its way into opposition campaign coffers and be used to fund, bribe or blackmail media and officials. Expect a number of media scandals and corruption stings against Correa’s government in the next few weeks.

I do not have much background on Ecuadorean politics and I really do not know what Correa’s chances of re-election are. Neither do I know if any of the opposition parties are decent and not in the hands of the USA. But I do know that the USA very much want Correa to lose, were very confident that he was going to lose, and now are not. From their point of view, the danger is that in upping the ante, their efforts will become so obvious they will backfire in a nationalist reaction. My US source however is adamant that the Obama adminstration will not actually use the funds to incite another military coup attempt against Correa. That has apparently been ruled out. Assange being expelled into the arms of the CIA by a newly installed military dictatorship might be a difficult sell even for our appalling mainstream media.

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311 Comments

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  1. That is why the United States has held off requesting extradition from the United Kingdom, to avoid the trouble this would cause Cameron. I am not speculating, there have been direct very senior diplomatic exchanges on this point between Washington and London.

    Thought so. However, there is now increasing media promotion of the idea – not hard to justify – that Cameron is incompetent, and a palace coup is probably in the offing. This would need much less CIA input than offing Chavez, so let’s consider it done. The Hague foetus (I think we can bid Osborne a fond farewell, too) would be much more compliant with American wishes.

  2. “offing….offing” Morphic resonance, sorry.

  3. “CIA supporters” Craig? Really?

  4. Skipjack 22 Oct, 10:42 am : Well, effectively. And that’s what matters.

  5. What a plan to get at one man, I hope that our US contingent here will ensure that the CIA’s money wasting ways are exposed for what they are, a cover up of law abuse, a cover up of diplomatic double speak and a cover up of extradition agreements with Sweden.

    Most important, US citizens are duped to think that Assange is bad whilst the despicable foreign policy goals of the US world empire are good for their children’s future.

    Party politics and corruption has ruined the politi to such extent that nobody has the chance or inclination to offer alternatives. We only have to look at what the donkeyelephants are prepared to put on the Green Party candidate, a fully eligible presidential candidate is surrounded by police and stopped from joining the debate.

    That’s US democracy, intimidation of candidates and Independents. The apathy here in the UIK will lead to the same excesses of power, because we are as fed up with party politics then they are.
    Who would bat an eyelid if our police commissioners are returned with just over 10% of the vote?
    Nobody! Indeed the papers would be full of praise and support for this rabble policy, talk of mandates and what these police commissioners are going to do, etc.

  6. The way I feel Craig, I think our MSM could sell Hell to God, they are so corrupt, disingenuous and deceitful.

  7. Skipjack

    Absolutely. If you want to argue that some give their support unwittingly as “useful idiots”, I would say the effect is the same and the blindness in this case has to be so extreme as to be wilful. Anyone who holds as an ideological principle that rape allegations may never in any circumstances be subjected to critical analysis deserves to be duped by the CIA.

  8. Very revealing comment by Craig – I am beginning to consolidate my knowledge of British diplomacy.

    America paid a price for the failed assassination of Hugo Chavez and even the millions of American dollars backing Henrique Capriles in a secure election with American and British MSM support failed to usurp people power.

    Operation Venezuela or the ‘Illuminati’ charade, where Venezuelan oligarchy and their CIA/Big Oil backers held rallies in Caracas, were well-countered by supporters of Chavez – marking the anniversary of the deposing of Marcos Perez Jimenez in Venezuela in 1958.

    But as with all recent CIA-sponsored Orange/Velvet/Cedar “revolutions”, (remember Iran)- the contradictions are best discovered in the history books. Jimenez, you see, was a right-wing dictator, the polar opposite of the socialist Chavez.

    Here endeth the first lesson…

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/grahame-morris-mp/hugo-chavez-venezuela_b_1963705.html

  9. What do you reckon, Komodo, should we write to Hugo Chavez and ask him to use some of these 42.7 billion to counter act the 87 million spent by the CIA to undermine President Correa and get him deposed?

    These three seem to be getting on with each other.
    http://live.wsj.com/video/ecuador-correa-visits-chavez/6A8222C7-3932-4C4C-A7E3-BDF538489904.html

  10. This is what Amerika has been up to in Colombia, the country connected to the Panamanian isthmus and which lies between Venezuela and Ecuador.

    ‘Last month’s capture of Colombian drug lord Daniel “El Loco” Barrera by Venezuelan police was hailed as a “victory” in the “war on drugs.”

    Barrera, accused of smuggling some 900 tons of cocaine into Europe and the U.S. throughout his infamous career, was described by Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos, who announced the arrest on national television, as “the last of the great capos.”

    But what of the “capo” who enjoyed high office, is wined and dined by U.S. corporations and conservative think-tanks, owns vast tracks of land, is a “visiting scholar” at a prominent American university (Georgetown) and now sits on the Board of Directors of Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation?

    When will they be brought to ground?’

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/10/teflon-president-noose-tightens-around-uribe-as-former-death-squad-leaders-spill-the-beans/

    PS The ‘capo’ in question is Álvaro Uribe who was put on the Palmer commission by the UN. It produced the whitewash on the Mavi Marmara slaughter,

  11. [Moderation Warning from Clark – “Inside Mann” seems to be a sock-puppet; see below.]

    Don’t get entrenched on Assange. The CIA set out to destroy Assange’s credibility, not put him on trial for him to become a worldwide symbol of info-oppression.

    They have achieved their aims – public opinion is divided, journalists are divided, even core Wikileaks supporters are divided.

    Yes the US don’t like the very public slap in the face from Correa. But the puppet masters are quietly happy at the outcome, with Assange further discrediting himself running to Ecuador:- that bastion of free speech.

    In any case the US would never attempt to extradite Assange from the UK. Why? I have my strong suspicions… Assange is most likely a UK SIS asset.

    If I’m right then this throws a cloud of suspicion around a few of his core supporters – look into their background. Army officers turned journalists, anyone?

    You might be right about a few things, others may be wrong on key facts. But one thing that is beyond doubt is that extradition from Sweden is likely to be even harder than extradition from the UK. Any CIA plotters would have known this.

    There simply was no plot to extradite Assange via Sweden. There may have been two separate operations that have since merged, but there are a lot in the US community aware that putting Assange on trial would only serve to encourage copycat organisations.

    The image of a hounded man is far more potent to the plotters than putting that man on trial. It would likely act as an effective deterrent to others whilst leaving the majority sceptical as to whether there ever was a plot in the first place, giving the US plausible dependability and limiting the ability for Assange to become a martyr in solitary confinement.

    But your sweeping statements on CIA involvement and intentions are alas far from the mark.

  12. Very true Mary – a penetrating post.

  13. Inside Mann,

    I have no idea who you are. People know who I am. My information is from first class sources with direct access whom I know and trust. I am not positing a theory, I am telling you what is happening. You give no grounds to justify your claim to know better.

  14. Another reason for the US (and China) to look longingly at Ecuador:

    http://www.downtoearth.org.in/content/rush-rare-earths

    Background: {http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2002/of02-189/of02-189.pdf}

    They’re not all that rare at all in fact. But mineable deposits containing the right ones for modern electronics are like rocking horse manure.

  15. The Yanks have to be pretty dumb if they believed their own propaganda about Venezuela. Even I, sitting in a little flat with a laptop, knew Chavez would almost certainly win. Correa is also very popular. Those dumb Yanks have got their work cut out.
    .
    It’s interesting though, the idea that an election in Venezuela or Ecuador could really lead to a dramatic change of direction. No-one is suggesting that we simply wait until November to see if the US election changes things in relation to Mr Assange. Because the US election won’t change things. Democracy has moved south.

  16. But one thing that is beyond doubt is that extradition from Sweden is likely to be even harder than extradition from the UK.
    But Sweden was the place where the alleged, stress alleged, crime took place. It would not have been as trivially easy to fit him up in the UK, if that is what happened. The CPS would almost certainly have dismissed the allegations out of hand.

  17. On Assange, Borgstrom, the Grauniad…
    .
    http://rixstep.com/1/20121021,00.shtml

  18. Inside Mann,

    Your assumption ‘Assange is most likely a UK SIS asset’ was muckraked a while back. He is not. The attempt by the BBC to destroy Craig’s argument (Murray vs Aaronovitch on Assange) goes some way to prove the point. I believe people realise ‘running to Ecuador’ was the last option for a man who had kissed his legal options goodbye.

  19. “Inside Mann” above appears to be “Scouse Billy”, sock puppeting.

    Scouse Billy spreads disinformation, climate change denial, and advocates medical quackery.

  20. Good point, Oliver.

    Elections in the US or UK change nothing.

    Elections in Ecuador or Venezuela change everything, and even US policy agrees with that assessment.

    So clearly democracy works in those countries but it doesn’t work in either the US or UK.

    More needs to be made of this. It’s quite disgraceful that even given this very obvious point, our media and politicians are still able to present themselves as other than the dictatorial elites they are.

  21. Inside Mann,

    after all that Manning has been through and is still going through (solitary confinement for months, 23h/day naked, still no process after more than 2 years in military prison), the US government does not seem to get a lot of trouble giving the harshest treatment to a whistleblower allegedly the source of some of WikiLeak’s major revelations.

    I would not be surprised if they really tried to get Assange and did not care a lot about things like a media outcry – in the US, there wouldn’t be any, probably neither in the UK. Assange doesn’t get a lot of support from Western media these days, to put it mildly.

    That and leaked statements by Australian officials asking to get advance notice if and when the US plans to request his extradition point to the direction the US is up to something. And don’t forget the Grand Jury, Assange being labeled ‘enemy of the state’ and a bunch of other hints

  22. Assange appears to have helped everyone take a good look at the Devil and will be lucky to survive.

    I’m not sure how much longer I can wait for the US Empire to disppear …. They seem to be doing a good job of self-destructing. I cheer it on where-ever possible. Elect Romney!!!

    Then we have the question of what it is replaced with.

  23. Which of the South American country has no national army, and has no budget for national defence.

    I remember a You tube clip showing a civilised society with a promising educatuon system?

  24. Talking of democracy, I see that none of Norfolk’s candidates for the forthcoming joke police commissioner post has yet produced a statement on this site….

    …EXCEPT the Independent. Looks as if he could handle the job, btw.

    Otherwise this looks like a promising destination for clapped-out political hacks and wannabe MP’s – you are expected, by the look of it, to vote for the party, not the person. I hope some of the public see through this disgraceful parody of democracy.

    http://www.policeelections.com/candidates/norfolk/

  25. “Which of the South American country has no national army, and has no budget for national defence”

    Costa Rica.

  26. I’m just a simple “peasant” from the United States and have no inside information, but from what I’ve heard a couple of times on Fox News, the desire isn’t merely to extradite Assange but to set up a kangaroo court and execute him. These same elements who tried to assassinate Chavez would also like to see Assange dead. I would be surprised about an attempt to overthrow Cameron, however. Well, not surprised to see CIA allies try it, but surprised to see the UK Government tolerate their political process interfered with by the USA. The UK is our main ally, not some poor Third World or Latin American country.

  27. surprised to see the UK Government tolerate their political process interfered with by the USA. The UK is our main ally…

    Would we be your “main ally” if we were less compliant? Are you our main ally?

  28. For details of what the CIA got up to in Latin America (from 1957 to 1969), read Inside the Company: CIA Diary by Philip Agee.

    An interview with Agee from 2005:
    http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/1015

  29. By ‘peasant’ of course you mean a ‘serf’ Xander, screwed into American Nazism yet acutely aware of the dilemma and waiting for the ‘miracle’ that will evolve American backroom strangulation of society into a true democracy demanded (soon) by the American peoples.

  30. @Craig

    On Ecuador: although Correa has the support of a large part of the Ecuadorean population, unfortunately it would be more difficult for his administration to throw the US out of the country than it would be for Morales or Chavez.

    As you probably know, Morales did chuck the US ambassador out of Bolivia when the US was attempting not to back a coup, in which probably only up to several hundred people would have been killed, but to start a civil war, which would have gone on for some time, and in which thousands or tens of thousands of people would have perished.

    The Bolivian action was admirable. Bolivia also became a beacon not just in Latin America but in the whole world when they threw out the Israeli ambassador in response to the Gaza massacre.

    One just has to note how hard it would be to imagine some creep heading up a government in the UK, France, or Germany, doing the same thing.

    Throwing the US out of Ecuador would be more difficult because

    1) the currency of Ecuador is the US dollar (sic) and

    2) the policy of ‘universal citizenship’, which is thoroughly laudable in itself, has let a lot of rich US nationals buy second (or third etc.) homes in the country and stay there as long as they want, which means the CIA can count on the support of a large number of helpers in the country, even before we start talking about the compradores.

    Cf. how MI6 can call on an enormous amount of support among the Anglos in Argentina.

    I should add that I mean no disrespect to those US nationals who have bought houses in Ecuador who wouldn’t dream of helping the US government or the CIA.

    On the positive side, just because it’s more difficult, that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t happen.

    Correa could of course count on support from Chavez, Morales, and ALBA, including economic support from Chavez to support a Correa administration during the major economic hassle which the US could cause, using the US dollar lever. Rapid currency reform would be required, but there are already moves towards that on a regional level.

    Let us hope Correa throws the US assets out sooner rather than later, and integrates more closely with ALBA.

    Meanwhile in the UK…I think your idea that LibDem MPs would ‘revolt’ over an extradition of Assange to the US is just wishful thinking.

    “That is why the United States has held off requesting extradition from the United Kingdom, to avoid the trouble this would cause Cameron. I am not speculating, there have been direct very senior diplomatic exchanges on this point between Washington and London.”

    Craig, old mate, do you actually believe every piece of information you are given by contacts in ‘the Foreign Office’? You don’t look that naive.

    When they use you as a conduit for unattributable material, all of the material they pass to you is always straight-down-the-line, is it? :-)

    “The State Department has since been shocked by the return of Hugo Chavez.”

    If so, that just shows what a bunch of fucking idiots they are.

    “I do not have much background on Ecuadorean politics and I really do not know what Correa’s chances of re-election are. Neither do I know if any of the opposition parties are decent and not in the hands of the USA. But I do know that the USA very much want Correa to lose, were very confident that he was going to lose, and now are not. From their point of view, the danger is that in upping the ante, their efforts will become so obvious they will backfire in a nationalist reaction.”

    Correa is not particularly nationalist. What you have to understand is that major social reforms benefiting most of the lower orders are underway in Ecuador. The ‘oligarchy’ are itching for a Pinochet solution, and much of the inherited-wealth ‘traditional’ part of the middle class are already heavily Americanised, sending their brats to US universities, etc. The right wing also controls much of the media.

    A drum roll is required at that point.

    The question is why does the left-wing government have so much support, when the right wing controls much of the media?

    The answer is, of course, the social reforms. The first three countries in Latin America to achieve near-full literacy were Cuba, after Castro came to power, and then Venezuela and Bolivia after Chavez and Morales come to power.

    In Cuba, the old regime, owned by New York Jewish mafia boss Meyer Lansky and his pals, got out on a plane and gave a resounding ‘Fuck you, we’ve got the gold’. (They had the gold on the plane with them.)

    Venezuela, not Cuba, is the modern canonical example. The reformist forces in Venezuela have BYPASSED the positions of the right wing. This is a very new pattern in the history of the world. The right would love a civil war in the literal sense, culminating in a fascist victory, but the reformist forces have refused to give them the civil war they crave. Instead the left wing forces are making progress where they can – and that means in a lot of areas.

    Therefore I am optimistic that Correa will remain in power, and that efforts by the US will be squelched.

    My US source however is adamant that the Obama adminstration will not actually use the funds to incite another military coup attempt against Correa. That has apparently been ruled out. Assange being expelled into the arms of the CIA by a newly installed military dictatorship might be a difficult sell even for our appalling mainstream media.

    People in the UK would forget about it in 2 minutes. It might not even be on the front pages.

    And you are forgetting something. If a pro-US administration in Ecuador chuck him out of the embassy door in London, he’d be taken to Sweden first. Only then would he be taken to the US, at whatever time the US thugs think is convenient.

    Do you really think legal points about how Sweden shouldn’t extradite him without UK say-so, or about how extradition is ultimately a matter for the executive rather than the judiciary, would find much traction among LibDem MPs or among British voters? Maybe a trip back down to earth is called for?

  31. The US has been interfering in UK and European politics for ages. It’s just that since 911 it’s become much more open.

    They’re basically writing UK and European law on “security” matters.

    That borders one which Mark referred to recently is a real twisted piece of fascist work. Most people don’t realise that you’ve bugger all in the way of rights or redress when you cross through a UK border. That’s planes, trains, automobiles and ferries. No warrants or even suspicion required. You must submit to whatever investigation or questions they impose under pain of criminal penalty.

  32. Xander Taylor at 22 Oct, 12:42 pm, the current UK government is a coalition between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats. The Conservatives don’t have an overall majority without the support of the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems are somewhat more progressive than the Conservatives.

    If the Conservative Cameron tried to extradite Assange, the Lib Dems would probably withdraw their support, and the Cameron-led Con-Dem coalition could fall.

    Incidentally, the UK’s internal political processes are frequently interfered with by the US.

  33. N_

    Correa expelled a US amabassador, for terrorist activities.

    He also got rid of the US base in his country.

  34. @Skipjack – Are you aware that the head of the CIA Station in London attends the weekly meetings of the top UK intelligence and security body, called the Joint Intelligence Committee? The CIA has many journalists and others in the UK on its payroll, and has done for generations.

    @Clark – “If the Conservative Cameron tried to extradite Assange, the Lib Dems would probably withdraw their support, and the Cameron-led Con-Dem coalition could fall.

    Nonsense. It wouldn’t even be billed as ‘conservative Cameron’. It would be billed as the oh-so-independent judiciary allowing due process to occur. (I know that’s not accurate, but that’s not the point.) And he would first be flown to Sweden.

    Why on earth do you have such faith in the integrity of the those LibDem creeps? Their party is just as friendly with the US as the Tory party or Labour party are.

  35. @Herbie – thanks for the correction. I’d forgotten that. All the more reason for optimism, then!

  36. Correa won my eternal devotion when I read that he offered to allow the USA to maintain an air base in Ecuador, provided Ecuador was allowed to set up its own air base in Florida.

    You have got to love a man like that. Almost as good as Chavez’ “smell of sulphur”.

  37. Is it totally out of the question for the Ecuadorians to sneak Assange out of the embassy and back to Ecuador by using a bit of subterfuge? Similar things have happened in the past with great success. If the Ecuadorean secret services want to get in touch, I have a cunning plan…

  38. “You have got to love a man like that. Almost as good as Chavez’ “smell of sulphur”.”

    Yup, or “You are a donkey, Mr. Bush.”

    cheered me up no end, that one did.

  39. The ‘miracle’ is when ‘hope’ is displaced by ‘intention’ Xander – that power will be invoked I believe when American ‘fear’ is replaced by the anger simmering below the surface of American politics.

    Not really a broad-brush statement – the siege of Sarah D. Roosevelt park and Union Square is not forgotten in a cramped American cognizance; a nine million person march is where we are heading. That wish must indeed mobilize the American psyche into a non-virtual release from the pain of incarceration in virtual concentration camps.

  40. The winds of change are blowing against the US in Latin America, and on a few recent occasions when they have tried to back coups, they’ve been stopped. How their faces must have looked in the Pentagon and at Langley! The popular upsurge that put Chavez back in power after he’d been overthrown by military coup was extraordinary. I don’t know of any parallel.

  41. willyrobinson

    22 Oct, 2012 - 1:45 pm

    Propper journalism, thanks Craig.

  42. Another small point – if the Brits at the Foreign Office think there’s a big chance Correa won’t win the election, they’re as stupid as their counterparts at the US State Department.

    They’re just as arrogant, only in a superficially different flavour.

  43. N_, 22 Oct, 2012 – 1:12 pm:
    “Venezuela, not Cuba, is the modern canonical example. The reformist forces in Venezuela have BYPASSED the positions of the right wing. This is a very new pattern in the history of the world. The right would love a civil war in the literal sense, culminating in a fascist victory, but the reformist forces have refused to give them the civil war they crave. Instead the left wing forces are making progress where they can – and that means in a lot of areas.”

    This is spot-on. Chavez is a true democrat first, socialist second. He introduced direct democracy elements into Venenezuelan constitution – powerful means of diffusing potential for violent conflict. If Cuba does not follow suit, the fate of Eastern Europe awaits it – regression to shamocracy in most cases.

  44. @Komodo, the stench of the PCC elections is peeling the bark of the trees and that website should have been informed that the only Independent candidate there was, Mervyn Lambert, has stepped down on the 6.Oct.
    which leaves nobody to vote for except party politicians and some UKIP school boy.

    Sad to see that some feel the need to morph from one moniker to the other, or is it that I have yet to discover my female inner self and return as the ‘wicket Ingrid’…..

  45. Komodo ref police commissioners.

    I am taking Blair’s (the other one} advice.

    ‘Former Metropolitan Police chief Ian Blair yesterday urged the public to undermine the new positions by boycotting the commissioner votes, as lack of interest threatens to keep turnout below 20 per cent.’

    This one has pulled out as have several others.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/is-police-candidate-a-trojan-horse-for-rightwing-american-thinktank-8219877.html

    It is a ConDem trick to make us think that the inauguration of these so called police commissioners is more democratic than the current system of police authorities, ie elected county councillors and others, as pathetic as they are.

  46. “evgueni” – there’s a name I’d like to see here more often.

    Here’s to true democracy, evgueni.

  47. Interesting (albeit heavily redacted) new(?) wikileaks/manning documents published here:

    http://cryptome.org/2012/10/dfat-foi-1112-F294.pdf

    http://cryptome.org/2012/10/dfat-foi-1205-F337.pdf

  48. Scouse Billy

    22 Oct, 2012 - 2:13 pm

    ““Inside Mann” above appears to be “Scouse Billy”, sock puppeting.

    Scouse Billy spreads disinformation, climate change denial, and advocates medical quackery.”

    Certainly not me.

    Clark, on what basis have you decided to accuse me?

    You may not like me but I post as myself, thank you very much.

    Craig, I strongly object to this false accusation.

  49. Sorry to miss Lambert’s departure, Nevermind. Remiss of me. The PCC idea was part of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011, a pot-pourri of Tory ideology whose third reading was shoved through on a Thursday afternoon, as you do when you want to restrict the time for debate. Half the trough-snufflers are on their planes or in their first-class rail carriages, heading for their constituencies, and many of the rest are impatient to be off.

    As yet, no-one has any clear idea of how this is actually intended to work, except that the commissioner can appoint a finance chief and chief executive (and their staff) to help him. You’ve guessed who will be paying the non-minimum wages involved.

    I assume that there will be some electioneering, that the parties will fund their candidates’ campaigns, and that it will be seen as an attractive alternative to working as an unpaid Westminster intern if you are a young suit and have an Oxford PPE degree and a lust for power. No qualifications are required, naturally. A background in media (like our Minister for Justice – or minijust – will be more than adequate.

  50. Blair (the police one) telling the public to stay away is the one thing that might make me vote. If he’s afraid of even this much sham democracy, I’d rather it happened. I’m conflicted.

  51. Evgueni – good insight man. Clark!

  52. America this is just not fair, it is too dirty, too much harm. America you are in a position to stop disrupting the world, to help it blossom instead of wither. You talked the talk, I got my dreams of peace and freedom from your vision. Stop making nightmare. Turn on the lights.

  53. Scouse Billy – we’ve had our differences, but I’m inclined to believe you. However, if Clark is going by the IP address he sees on his board, there are a couple of other reasons you might share an IP with Inside Mann. One is that IM is posting from the same institution or business network as you. The other is that he has spoofed his IP (or you have!), coincidentally using yours, or, yes, possibly by design. If the latter there are some implications for site security.

  54. A brilliant piece of writing. Thank you Craig!

  55. Got this on medialens. It’s a BBC interview with staff at the Ecuador embassy. This is the best bit. Here the ambassador explains how bully boy Hague tried to threaten the country. The bit about cops at every window, including the bog when she wanted to go for a pee, adds a nice human touch, which mirrors aptly the menacing cops outside. Really does give the lie to Hague and indeed Chuck Crawford’s efforts to downplay what the lunatics were up to:

    “In mid-August, a couple of months after Mr Assange’s arrival, the Ecuadorean government received a letter from the UK foreign office. In this letter, she says, the UK government threatened to storm her embassy.

    But it wasn’t only the letter, she says.

    “That letter came with a gift, the gift was numbers and numbers of policemen outside the embassy. It was a crazy night.”

    She tells me that late that evening the road was closed. More police turned up. They were outside every window, she remembers.

    But she says her biggest shock came when she went to the embassy toilet.

    “I turned on the light on and was about to go to the loo, see, and out of the window were police officers.” She bursts again into laughter.

    I ask her what she made of the action.

    “It was the biggest mistake that I have seen since I arrived.”

    “Why?”

    “I am not Mr Hague’s brain, so you had better ask him. But I think in the beginning they were trying to show this little country that Britain is still an empire and we should learn how to be good boys during our stay here.””

    The rest is worth a read too. These guys really do come across as human beings, first and foremost.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20026480

  56. Scouse Billy

    22 Oct, 2012 - 2:49 pm

    Thanks, Komodo – I was thinking the same but I’d like to see some evidence of this IP match.

    Anyway, I am very much pro-wikileaks and certainly not pro-CIA.

    I “left” an organisation that was closely linked to the CIA/NSA because, in their words, I was “dangerously intelligent” – that’s code for I see through manufactured reality and prefer truth…!

  57. O/T Agent Cameron is back to Laura Norder, again.

    I heard the other day about a charity which has a narrow workboat on the river here and whose volunteers take Community Service offenders, mostly young men, along the river to do outside work under their close supervision. No smoking or drinking is allowed. The candidates are given their fares to get to the boat.

    Previously, the charity’s weekly report on attendance, work output, behaviour was closely monitored by the Probation Service and action taken on any slacking, non attendance, late arrival etc. The probation service has now been disbanded and the work has been handed over to a ‘trust’ based in another country. Six months have gone by and absolutely no notice is being taken of the reports or input. Therefore, the volunteers will lose interest and the young offenders will miss the chance to learn new skills and to take responsibility for themselves and hopefully reform.

    So much for Cameron’s B I G S O C I E T Y!

  58. CAT Article 3

    22 Oct, 2012 - 3:00 pm

    If the AP wanted to lessen CIA’s interest in foreign interference, it could pass an act affirming the principal of non-refoulement. Then extradition proceedings would ensure an awkward airing of US official impunity for torture and Swedish acquiescence in that crime.

  59. The medialens board doesnt need to put up with shenanigans from self proclaimed dangerous intelligences who spam Psych-K blurbs on how to use attennas in the plasma membranes to “download information from the universe”

  60. Scouse Billy

    22 Oct, 2012 - 3:13 pm

    I have never espoused Psych-K – Lipton’s work as a cell biologist was where I was ooming from.

    Too bad you missed the point that mainstream biology hasn’t caught up with quantum physics but you didn’t grasp that,did you?

  61. Scouse Billy, I see that you’re back on your usual IP, from which you have consistently commented as “Scouse Billy”, except for once, when, it appears, you posted as “Cecil Rhodes”.

    There are five comments from the IP of “Inside Mann”; three of which carry your screen-name and e-mail address. Here are links to them, for inspection:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/the-al-hilli-conundrum/comment-page-12/#comment-359133

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/08/why-we-must-leave-nato/comment-page-1/#comment-320443

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/08/why-we-must-leave-nato/comment-page-1/#comment-320401

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/07/new-norwegian-killing/comment-page-1/#comment-316349

  62. Komodo he is “dangerously intelligent”, surely capable of a little change in style. IP spoofing is difficult, matching someone elses ip is even harder. That character has been gaming boards for years. A total plonker.

  63. Correction.
    This one has pulled out as have several others.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/is-police-candidate-a-trojan-horse-for-rightwing-american-thinktank-8219877.html

    He, Mervyn Barrett, has not pulled out. His campaign team has. He should be reported to the Electoral Commission if he has taken money from a foreign source which is illegal. Isn’t it wonderful that you only give details of campaign funds up to 90 days after the date of the election.

    Komodo, Sorry. Blair is dead right this time on not voting.

  64. The IP of “Inside Mann” appears to be a TOR exit router.

    My apology for not checking that earlier. Scouse Billy’s total disregard for checking facts, his advocacy of medical quackery, fake physics, ludicrous conspiracy theories, etc. etc. etc. led me to jump to a conclusion.

    But you do use TOR, then Billy? But you then post under your own e-mail address? And yet “an organisation that was closely linked to the CIA/NSA” called you “dangerously intelligent”? I think you’re just a liar.

  65. As well as IP address, the web server has access to at least client Operating System, Browser, Processor and Screen resolution/depth and whether certain options are disabled or enabled. Oh and Cookies…

    If Scouse Billy and “Inside Mann” had all of the above in common and were not the same person (especially if the combinations were particularly unusual ones) then I’d think they were possibly sitting near each other in some place where the PCs are locked to a standard build/configuration.

    Cookies could be the smoking gun that the same PC was used (barring skullduggery).

  66. Of course the above can be anonymised to a degree the more trouble is taken as the comments about TOR imply. Still I suspect using TOR might just as well draw attention as hide it. If I was an intelligence service I would want to control or monitor as many exit nodes as possible.

  67. PCC…if I see a competent independent I’ll vote for it. Otherwise I’ll stay away, Mary. Promise.

    Fair enough, Anon. Didn’t know how much was available, my bad. Cancel the above.

  68. “I asked a former colleague in the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office what Hague saw as the endgame in the Julian Assange asylum standoff, and where the room for negotiation lay. My friend was dismissive – the policy was simply to wait for the Presidential election in Ecuador in February.”

    As others have commented there are many reasons the US wants to be rid of Correa. I cant think that Assange is a major one.

    Who actually needs an endgame here?
    (1)Assange himself obviously, and his supporters.
    (2) Ecuador presumably.
    (3) the UK probably.

    The US is probably quite happy for this to drag on indefinitely. Assange is tainted without any need to actually try him, imprisoned indefinitely without expense to the US, and could always be turned into an asset or executed if so desired if circumstances change. Its a bit like having Bin Laden holed up in Pakistan.

  69. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    22 Oct, 2012 - 4:06 pm

    Although the methodology was different, Christopher Boyce was a kind of whistleblower. Boyce melted down after his disillusionment with American mischief in foreign elections.

    Primarily, in his job, deep in the bowels of a civilian contractor whose satellite transmissions were inadvertently seen by his eyes. It culminated on 11 November 1975 with the removal of the Prime Minister, Gough Whitlam of the Australian Labor Party .

    Perhaps more like Manning than Assange,, Boyce went rogue-nutz using a defunct operation known as ‘Pyramid’ and sought to sell to Soviets. His case was clearly defined as espionage, and the publicity around drug smuggling and spying drew attention away from the linchpin of his rage.

    He had already seen the signs behind the poorly disguised coup in Chile after Allende was legally elected to office. The CIA continues their disinformation campaigns with impunity because the population of America, as well as those in other countries worldwide, don’t really give a shit, as long as they have sufficient Big Macs and gasoline to burn in their tar-machines.

  70. I found Inside Mann’s position overstated, but i have sympathy with it. I found wikileaks websites to be unusually poor at presenting the leaks, and the association with the IBC’s shameful undercounting of war casualties very problematic, and Julians obvious errors with telling a journalist the live database passcode which was subsequently released, and his flawed intimate relationships – are very unimpressive.
    But, there are still standards of ideas and justice to stand by regardless of the flaws and possibilities arising from them. Julian probably is brave and sincere and hopefuly learning and will hopefuly improve. Even if he is in on ‘divide and rule’ we should still keep to the good side of the divide, instead of uniting with those who abandon trust.

  71. Anon,

    I use at least five browsers depending on… each with their own cookie file – TOR allocates stupid IP addresses so I agree it attracts attention and is insecure to boot according to a poster here (forgotten who it was).

    Yes I agree with whoever; a continuous ‘technical’ thread might be in order. I’ll propose it to Clark/Jon.

  72. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    22 Oct, 2012 - 4:21 pm

    “Julian probably is brave and sincere and hopefuly learning and will hopefuly improve. Even if he is in on ‘divide and rule’ we should still keep to the good side of the divide, instead of uniting with those who abandon trust.”

    Crab; I’ve often wondered why an anonymous purveyor needs a public face. It seems contradictory, and since he has been sequestered, perhaps the baton should be handed off, but I question the need.

  73. Scouse Billy

    22 Oct, 2012 - 4:24 pm

    Interesting that Inside Mann should know my e-mail address, Clark.

    Please note I am not using TOR nor have done for many months.

    In any case, I am neither Inside Mann nor a liar – I’ll thank you to desist from such defamation.

  74. If someone’s using TOR, that means that someone else using TOR actually connects to the target site. Am I right so far? If so, whose IP is actually on the packets? Enquiring minds, and that.

  75. Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    22 Oct, 2012 - 4:30 pm

    If the email address is visible, what good is TOR? I notice it has only about one or two dozen ip’s which rotate in and out, but how does that equate to ‘anonymizer’?

  76. Whilst we’re talking about defamation. Looks like Frankie Boyle won his libel case against The Mirror.

    They and others were trying to diminish him when he was speaking up for Palestinians.

    Funny how these racist scumbags are the biggest players of the race card.

    Same goes for anti-semitism too. It’s always the biggest scumfilth who are readiest to play these cards.

    There’s a lesson there for those who are too enamoured of identity politics. All ain’t what it seemed.

  77. Oops. Looks like somebody’s been caught at the porkie pies again.

    Why is there a picture of Jack Straw there?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/22/british-cia-rendition-9-11

    Ian Cobain did a Q&A at The Graun today on rendition. It’s all becoming too easy now. Craig did all the heavy lifting and paid the price.

  78. Komodo, the web-server sees the IP address of the TOR exit node you are being relayed through. Some sites block TOR and other proxies from any access (GodLikeProdutions – enough said) and some partially block access.

  79. How can someone who was an ambassador to the UK write so much baloney? Seriously, the US and UK don’t give a rat’s ass about Assange or Correa, for the publicity is like oxygen

  80. Good lad Komodo. btw do you retreat to your underground lair at weekends? I can’t be sure but don’t think your licking tongue is seen around here Sat/Sun.

  81. Seriously, the US and UK don’t care to be reminded how Assange and Correa outwitted them.

    There, fixed it for ya.

    Thing is Jorge. You’re on a boat, and it’s sinking.

  82. Thanks Herbie – Bush to CIA: ‘Leave No Marks’ – a torture primer.

    http://www.villagevoice.com/2007-08-14/news/bush-to-cia-leave-no-marks/

    Torture UK: why Britain has blood on its hands
    How did the British government get involved in the torture of its own citizens?

    guardian.co.uk/law/2012/oct/19/torture-uk-britain-blood-government

  83. O/T from an e-mail this morning.

    Gaza
    “F16’s still very low in the sky. Schools evacuated, Land incursion east of Jabalia ( 5 tanks), air strikes in Erez, Beit hanoun areas, Many injured , and confirmed fatalities. Gaza under attack.” Also that white phosphorous is being fired on East Gaza.

    Later reported on BBC as two ‘militants’ killed.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20027813

  84. @Ben Franklin (Anti-Intellectual Colonial American Savage Version)
    22 Oct, 2012 – 4:06 pm

    I was reading about him only two nights ago and wanted to mention him in relation to whistle blowing.
    S-P-O-O-K-Y!

  85. The larvae that became the LibDems gorged themselves as infants on the very marrow of the Labour Party, they were the Gaitskellites who Wilson ill-advisedly did not deal harshly enough with to drive them out. The treachery of Williams, Jenkins and friends, consistently anti-union, anti-state, pro – US, EU, freemarket, big business – empowered only Mrs. Thatcher; look at the embrace the SDP and Liberal/SDP Alliance was given by the media, considered immediately an equal of the two other parties; without the SDP Micheal Foot could well have become PM in ’83, at the head of a fractious but still leftwing Labour party.

    That this opportunist LibDem rabble offer the tiniest glimmer hope to anyone indicates to me that despair has a multiplicative effect on gullibility.

    I’ve read an estimate that ‘the 1%’ of low repute are those who can find £500,000 after clearing any major debts, mortgage etc. Hope this dispels doubts for anyone who is unclear which side of the divide they’re on.

  86. O/T sorry,

    I have written to the BBC, via John Hamer- BBC Trust Unit- stating I will not pay a license fee to a Charter that covers up pedophilia.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2012/oct/22/jimmy-savile-panorama-newsnight-video

  87. @Komodo Connections routed through Tor reveal only an exit nodes ip, like an anonymous proxy, or moreso a chain of them to make retracing even harder.

    @all Clark didnt say Inside mann used SBs email address. He said sb used it while using Tor in the past.

    Inside Mann was just using Tor and SB happened to do so in the past and by chance had the same exit node.

    SB regularly talks and links to such frustratingly unscrupulous and weird rubbish that Clark was confused by the coincidental exit nodes.

  88. Thatcrab, thanks. Yes, that seems about right.

  89. Right. That’s great. Now that the BBC have finally got around to exposing something filthy and corrupt about their own internal organisation, can we hope that they soon get around to exposing the financial corruption, its players, their wars, their destruction of civil liberties and rape of the national assets etc over the past 40 odd years.

    You know. Like kinda what a public broadcaster is for.

    Otherwise would you please just wind yourself up and let someone else do it!!

  90. did assange ever release information about Israel ?

  91. Herbie, thanks for the link to the BBC article with interviews of staff at the Ecuadorean embassy in London. The consul, Fidel Narveaz, says that “While the decision was being taken [to grant him asylum], a member of the diplomatic staff needed to be here full time and that was me.”

    I really hope that at least one member of the diplomatic staff, or other embassy staff but Ecuadorean and not British, is still there at all hours of day and night.

    If that isn’t so, I could easily imagine a scenario where the electrics are sabotaged, the lock picked, Assange grabbed, perhaps after being sedated while asleep, and British authorities claim he went outside of the embassy into the non-extraterritorial communal stairway, where he was arrested. Oh and for some reason all the surveillance footage went missing, not just in the building, but in the surrounding area too (cf. the Princess Diana and Dodi Fayed car crash).

    That’d all be a cinch for the ‘Increment’, the armed forces special ops personnel on call to MI6.

    Never ever trust the perfidious ones. If Assange is the only person in the embassy at night, that is absolutely asking for trouble.

  92. Great Herbie – strong and intentional – the way I like it!

  93. Craig:

    Those who argue otherwise, like Gavin Essler and Joan Smith here, are not being truthful – I suspect their very vehemence indicates that they know that.

    I remember an interview Esler did with George Galloway on Newnight (2005?) when he all but accused George of promoting terrorism. George questioned his motivation and said something like: “I’ve had my eye on you for a while, laddie.”

    I too have had my eye on that laddie ever since.

  94. scousebilly

    As usual I have no idea what everyone is talking about. The joys of technophobia. As you seem to be not guilty by general agreement of whatever it was you were accused of doing, I suggest we don’t worry about it.

  95. Jack Straw said in 2005:
    .
    Unless we all start to believe in conspiracy theories and that the officials are lying, that I am lying, that behind this there is some kind of secret state which is in league with some dark forces in the United Statesthere simply is no truth in the claims that the United Kingdom had been involved in rendition“.
    .
    from the Guardian today:
    .
    UK intelligence officers knew of CIA’s rendition plans within days of 9/11
    Meeting at British embassy in US raises questions about repeated denials by MI5 and MI6 of connivance in torture

    .
    Take it from Jack, we should not be put off the investigation of subjects by the cheap flinging around of the ‘conspiracy theory’ tag. Also, officials do lie & there is some kind of secret state which is in league with some dark forces in the United States………….

  96. Phil W

    Of course Assange is not the only reason, nor one of the first reasons, the US hates Correa. But it is undoubtedly now one of the major reasons.

  97. “All we have as an organisation is the trust of the people the people that watch us and listen to us and if we don’t have that, if we start to lose that, that’s very dangerous I think for the BBC.”

    John Simpson October 2012

    To the BBC Trustees – that trust washed out when you refused to answer the charge of bind-eyeing the barbarity in Bahrain – the barbarity in Gaza referring to ‘rebels’ as ‘militants’ or ‘terrorists’ – failing to report accurately the abyss in Libya, the malnutrition, orphaning and dying from treatable diseases in Iraq despite numerous requests.

    The BBC – you are carnal, unworthy, dishonorable and now licentious. The Royal Charter that ordained you is invalid under Clause 4 below

    The Public Purposes

    The Public Purposes of the BBC are as follows—

    (a) sustaining citizenship and civil society;
    (b) promoting education and learning;
    (c) stimulating creativity and cultural excellence;
    (d) representing the UK, its nations, regions and communities;
    (e) bringing the UK to the world and the world to the UK;

    53. Dissolution and winding-up – The BBC may, if it appears to the Trust appropriate to do so, —

    (a) surrender this Charter with the permission of Us, Our Heirs or Successors in Council and upon such terms as We or They may consider fit, and

    (b) wind up or otherwise deal with the affairs of the BBC in such manner as may be approved by the Secretary of State. Where the BBC is to be dissolved voluntarily or compulsorily, the property and assets of the BBC shall, before the dissolution occurs —

    (a) be applied in satisfaction of the debts and liabilities of the BBC, and
    (b) subject to sub-paragraph (a), be disposed of in accordance with the directions of the Secretary of State. When this Charter expires at the end of 31st December 2016, the undertaking of the BBC shall cease, so far as it may depend upon this Charter unless We, Our Heirs or Successors,shall by writing under Our or Their Sign Manual declare to the contrary and authorise the continuance of the undertaking under some or all of the provisions of this Charter and under such provisions and conditions as We, Our Heirs or Successors may think fit. This article is subject to any applicable statutory provision or other legal requirement.

  98. N_

    I think it’s more difficult for Britain to mess with Ecuador these days. Any such messing would I’m sure result in sanctions of some description from a number of resource rich latin American countries. Were such messing to take place, I’m afraid it would only be with the private blessing of Ecuador.

    Thanks Mark. There are fissures appearing in every area of British life. The curtain is pulled back bit by bit, the fraud revealed, critical mass built. It all collapses quite suddenly in the end. The last to know will be the players themselves.

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