Work for the UN

by craig on June 17, 2013 10:25 am in Uncategorized

GCHQ and the NSA between them employ tens of thousands of people.  I am bemused by the shock at the “revelation” they have been spying.  What on Earth did journalists think that spies do all day? That includes electronics spies.

Since Katherine Gun revealed that we spy on other delegations – and the secretariat – within the UN building, it is hardly a shock that we spy on other governments at summits in the UK.  For once, the government cannot pretend that the object is to save us all from terrorism, which is the usual catch all excuse.  Nor in the real world is any of the G20 nations a military threat to the UK.  The real truth of the matter is that our spies – GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 – are themselves a large and highly influential interest block within the state.  Lots of people make a great deal of money out of the security state, and this kind of activity is actually simply an excuse for taking money from taxpayers – which is from everyone who has ever bought anything – and giving that money to the “security industry”.

I do not view spying on other governments as quite as despicable as spying on ordinary citizens, which is an unspeakable betrayal of the purpose of government.  Spying on other governments is a game they all play to extort money each to their own security elites.  But I will say that spying on the South African government seems pretty low.  Why?

Interception of diplomatic communications is plainly a gross breach of the Vienna Conventions, even if the forms of communication have changed since they were drafted.  I have never studied the particulars of international law as they relate to spying, but it seems to me an area that in the modern world needs regulation.  There must be room here for the UN to be involved in preparing a Convention to outlaw the interception of international communications, with recourse to the International Court of Justice for those victim of it.

There is more work for the UN on Syria.  We should all be grateful that Russia is holding out against the very dubious western claims that the  Syrian government has deployed chemical weapons.  But while Obama can declare all the red lines he wishes, they do not give any country a right to take action on Syrian soil without UN authority.  That needs to be restated, strongly.  There is no basis at all for the continued and massive Israeli attacks on Syria – they are absolutely illegal.  Israeli strikes have definitely killed more people than the alleged deaths from chemical weapons.  Can someone explain to me why that is not a red line?

The UN Secretary General should be speaking out, and the UN Security Council should be meeting, to discuss the Israeli attacks on Syria.  The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.

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1,072 Comments

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  1. @suhayl

    “Who knows?”

    The fundamentally scary thing is that we would not discount the possibility. It’s not the truth of the proposition that is frightening, it’s that gloomily acknowledged plausibility.

  2. Dreoilin
    22 Jun, 2013 – 2:52 pm
    ‘I haven’t updated myself as far as here. I just popped in to say that I’ll be back eventually. Too much of anything gets tiresome and this place had become tiresome to me. So I’m having a break.”

    Dreolin too true, the place had become too tiresome — may be a little fresher now. Had Craig been reading the comments here he might, poor chap, have developed a pain in the other heel. Hope not and wish him well!

    Even poor Technicolour was writing comments last night that she couldn’t believe for herself, of course, as well meant as always.

    Thank you for your catalysing role though in bringing sanity back and wish you endless Universal energy.

  3. Villager, Sovereignty is about to get a boost, that’s the part of the problem. A window is closing and the US permanent government wants to sneak through it in time. From the Rome Statute definition of aggression, Article 8 bis clause 2g, recently accepted by NATO linchpin Germany, aggression is also… “The sending by or on behalf of a State of armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries, which carry out acts of armed force against another State of such gravity as to amount to the acts listed above, or its substantial involvement therein.”

    The prospect of US aggression in Iraq triggered a rush of accessions to the Rome Statute. If, when 8 bis enters into force, the US is still sending armed bands into the Mideast and violating Pakistan’s sovereignty with armed attacks against the civilian population, career planning gets trickier for aspiring elder statesmen like Obama and his CIA handler Ben Rhodes. No foreign Bilderberg holidays.

  4. Flaming June

    22 Jun, 2013 - 5:11 pm

    Brave men, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden.

    “Government secrecy has been expanding on a terrific scale. Simultaneously, human privacy has been secretly eradicated … The U.S. government is spying on each and every one of us, but it is Edward Snowden who is charged with espionage for tipping us off.”

    WikiLeaks’ Assange urges support for Snowden, slams Obama ‘betrayal’
    By Laura Smith-Spark, CNN

    June 22, 2013 — Updated 1513 GMT (2313 HKT)

    London (CNN) — WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange urged the world Saturday to “stand with” Edward Snowden, the man who admitted leaking top-secret details about U.S. surveillance programs, according to the text of a speech posted on Twitter.

    As he appealed for a “brave country” to step forward and offer Snowden asylum, Assange also accused U.S. President Barack Obama of betraying a generation of “young, technically minded people.”

    Assange was scheduled to speak from the balcony of the Ecuadorian Embassy in London on Saturday, but the appearance was postponed at short notice “due to a security situation,” WikiLeaks said on Twitter.

    Wednesday marked a year since Assange sought refuge in the embassy to avoid extradition to Sweden, where he is wanted for questioning over allegations that he raped one woman and sexually molested another.

    /..
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/22/world/europe/uk-wikileaks-assange/?hpt=hp_t1

  5. Since SS, you are on my site radar, I shall respond.

    There are all kinds of theories about her murder – and that is quite clear – the only likely one she had was about Charles having it in for her, and in my theory, the Mossad was only doing the dirty work with the Benz, etc.

    It all illustrates thinking that the wrong people are out to get you, making it most helpful for the real people who want you done in, do it.

    Remember Hastings thought that the Bureau – which is quite happy to get rid of its own troublemakers, like agent Steve Ivens – was out to kill him when, at best, it was only setting him up for the Mossad.

    This way Israel got rid of the strongest supporter, Di, of the Occupied Territories, and Charles got rid of what he thought was his biggest obstacle to becoming king.

    Just shows what conspiracies can achieve, along with unexpected consequences or results.

  6. You, Ben, are certainly on my site radar.

    I think that codshit, like me, has not paid attention to the fact that Di was murdered.

    i think that the Harrods connection put us off, and we never even suspected that the car’s driving computers had been taken over by the Mossad.

    It was all the drinking, especially by the driver. that did it.

    And killing neo.-Nazi Jorg Haider seemed like a one-off by the Mossad that we couldn’t get too excited about.

    Killing not onlt Hastings but also Di will certainly get a new effort by me, and be posted somewhere.

  7. Trolls don’t bother me and off topic I like.

    Flouncers I find irritating.

  8. Krupp, thank you for that valuable and sharp insight. Its amazing how quickly ‘actions’ can be put into place when paperwork can take years to negotiate through.

    Btw, one doesn’t see China being very vocal at all on Syria. Where do they stand on this stark reality?

  9. John Kerry accuses Assad of “internationalising” the war! These guys are lying fucking warmongers, there’s no other way to put it. Who’s been funding and arming the heart-eating animals al Nusra? Is Kerry on the same fucking planet as the rest of us?

    The UN say there’s no way of telling who has used chemical weapons. Not a word of that on the BBC. Turn the thing off. Shun the liars.

  10. Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:06 pm

    @Villager. 4 38pm

    WTF?

    Sofia’s still lodged well up your nose?

    She popped into being with the chosen purpose of distracting Habba in his relentless bullying of Mary. That was it.

    She soon noticed that, though she was, by her own admission a fictional 13 and a half year old girl, she clearly got under the skin of these individuals, as some of your very unkrishnamurtian insults testify. So she felt she served a purpose. While time was spent targeting her, (she’s an angry, hormone-plagued girl who doesn’t give a shit what hypocritical grown-ups think of her), the real contributers could be left in peace to scurry through cyber-space collecting interesting links and facts.

    But once she’d got found a channeller she wouldn’t shut up and soon enough she had broadened her horizons and was winding up others who she felt had a more subtle, but equally distracting, intention.

    From the start she has kept the name-calling on the soft end of the spectrum, unless you think “old fool” and “plonker” are genuinely offensive. She was gratified to see what a venoumous and hysterical array of insults were returned, from yourself and others.
    She also quickly noticed that things as harmless as a badly-spelt word or grammatical error would often evoke howls of indignant protest. She still finds that really funny.

    Her only real regret is that, on occasion, she accidentally upset the very people she felt she was writing her stuff for. For that she’s sorry.

    You seem to have quite an obsession with Kibo, who is clearly sometimes is moved by similar feelings.

    She/he wasn’t the only poster covered by the blanket of “you know who you are.” There are just too many bright and compassionate posters on these threads for her to list. They all make her think. She appreciates them all.

    So “at the end of the day” she thinks the rambling, anarchic and wonderful comment threads of Craig Murray’s blogs provide both great insight and occasional entertainment, which, to have real effect will hopefully percolate out into a myriad of world-changing conversations.

    She didn’t intend any kind of goodbye. She was just saying she’d done some thinking and decided that it was delusional narratives rather than their promoters that she would try to address. How long she’ll manage to that is anyone’s guess.

  11. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:10 pm

    Hows the weather over there?

    http://www.sat24.com/?culture=en

  12. @ Phil, thanks, you could not have described anarchy any more beautiful than you have. Thinking for oneself is seen as dangerous, if you want to eat healthy food, care about sustainable cycles, community projects promoting alternative energies, or the democratic deficit and personal privacy, then you are suspicious, a troublemaker.

    The NSA story is running away, they can’t shut it down, despite D notices, people are now clued up, but they are not sussed enough to encrypt their emails, but with increasing persecution of whistle-blowers, calling them spies and terrorists, when they merely point out the state of control we are subjected to already, people will eventually loose trust in official reasoning as they can only see knee jerk officialdom and book throwing from our authorities.

    So the virulent reactions are counter productive and this counter productivity is mushrooming perpetually with every new information flow that leaks from their data orifice, we have been had and we know it, so encryption is not far away,imho.

  13. Flouncer Gordon Thomas threw me off, Ben about the Mossad’s murder of Princess Diana when he wrote in Gideon’s Spies that it had tried to recruit driver Henri Paul to kill her, and that he refused.

    Little did I realize that this disinformation was to give the Mossad a cover for the mission which it carried out by taking over the driving computers, and killing not only Di but also fall guy driver in the process.

  14. China got to sign the UN Charter first, as the first victim of aggression by an Axis power, and it appreciates that distinction. China invoked the UN Charter over the Daiyou Islands but in the case of Syria, China seems to be sticking to non-legal language like ‘tensions.’ In fact, China has kept Syria out of ICC’s investigative purview. They seem leery of the Libyan precedent under Moreno-Ocampo. They may well feel that ICC is not ready for prime time.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/un-human-rights-commissioner-navi-pillay-pretext-maker-for-western-military-aggression/5323569

  15. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 6:27 pm

    The reason Snowden chose China is the extradition treaty is incomplete and excludes political matters. The US made a mistake not indicting him for criminal violations, so there you have it.

  16. So why all the hype by Snowden, and the Incompence by America’s security state?

    Seems that Snowden went to HK, knowing that the Chinese would be obliged to let him stay there while fanning the flames about the USA’s willingness and ability to get him when, in fact, it made sure that there is no way in hell of doing so

    Looks like my original version of Snowden’s disclosures is correct – i.e., he reacted to the Agency’s effort to set him up as a pillow-take spy, like Ben Bishop, by arranging an escape, and release of classified documents which would make his helpless minders look like the fools they are.

    Looks more like a most clever self-server than anyone’s real spy.

  17. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 7:03 pm

    “Looks more like a most clever self-server than anyone’s real spy.”

    It’s too stupid a mistake, to be a mistake. Could he be a trojan horse?

  18. Time for a new post, Craig.

    This is turning into Mumsnet…

  19. resident dissident

    22 Jun, 2013 - 7:35 pm

    @Cryptonym

    “Libya under Gadaffi was probably the closest any country had ever come to a practical realisation of the theory of democracy, blah, blah………….”

    You are one of Gerry Healy’s “love” children and I claim my £5

    I just had a look at most of this thread and I wish I hadn’t bothered. The above sample only gets highlighted for being the most stupid of many contenders.

    Craig is still clearly banging on with his one sided view of interenational law when it is only breaches by one side of the argument that appear to matter. Perhaps he might wish to comment on why Iran sending troops into Syria, Hezbollah doing likewise (to say nothing of their use of suicide bombers), Syria’s blowing up of a Lebanese Prime Minister, Syria’s illegal occupation of Lebanon, the Assad dynasty’s myriad breaches of human rights law do not also represent clear breaches of international law. Perhaps he should also consider that the underlying purpose of the framework of international law that was set up after WW2 was to prevent dictators becoming established before they trash the human rights of their citizens and destroy the peace of their neighbours – and why said international law clearly failed in the case of Assad and Syria many years ago.

  20. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 8:26 pm

    @ Trowbridge H. Ford :

    “Chalk up another one for Mossad. It hated her {ie, Princess Diana}”
    ____________

    You will keep throwing around these ex cathedra statements, won’t you.

    So here’s a challenge : please tell us why “Mossad hated Princess Diana”.

    In your own words and not by simply linking to websites or your own blog.

    Off you go!

  21. Krupp thank you for your response and that link. The depth of some of the information there is new to me, and judging by earlier comments, probably to many others here.

    Btw, two questions — do you have an update on the status of reconstitution of the permanent members of the Security Council, and do you see the BRICS countries coming together at anytime as some sort of a counterbalance to the West? In other words can we expect any such thing as global peace within our generation??? Or is this just wishful thinking?

    I cannot believe the way we human beings live. Was it Aldous Huxley who said that Earth may be another planet’s Hell?

  22. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 8:43 pm

    Hi Villager

    Is Technicolour female? The thought never occurred to me and I’m astounded (but quite pleased, actually).

    @ Resident Dissident – good to see you back. Happy we share the same opinion about the Libya under Gaddafi bit.

  23. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 8:51 pm

    @ Villager

    The answer to your question on the BRICs is “no”.

    Given the juxtaposition and order of your sentences, I hope you aren’t so optimistic as to believe that ‘global peace within our generation’ would be achieved if only the Security Council was recast and the BRICs constitute a ‘counter-balance’ to the West.

    Finally, to complement your very last sentence, was it not Sartre who said “Hell is other people”?

    Greetings from Habbabkuk, lord of all he surveys.

  24. Sofia: “She was gratified to see what a venoumous and hysterical array of insults were returned, from yourself and others.”

    Do you have any examples of my insults to you? Anyway you have earned my pity and recognition that you are so lost there isn’t a chance you could help change anything on this planet. Re Kibo, keep it in check for sock-puppeting is forbidden here.

    “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?”

    You poor soul, you really are so lost. Forgive me for repeating, I really meant that. I was reminded that Aldous Huxley who was a friend of K’s wrote a preface to one of his books — you might find that and read it for starters. Night, night.

  25. As the humungous scale of the NSA/GCHQ/Five Eyes Total Interception/Tempora/Prism – or whatever today’s latest project acronym is – begins to fully sink in, I think there’s going to be quite a few oh-oh moments like this one, as people put two and two together (and freak out completely):

    http://www.genewatch.org/uploads/f03c6d66a9b354535738483c1c3d49e4/DNAinNHS_GWbriefing_fin.pdf

    Sample quote:
    “Under this proposal, everyone’s NHS medical records and genomes [ie. their individual DNA profile] will be shared with companies such as Google without people’s knowledge or consent. Data-sharing will be global…”

    True story. Project has been snuck through by UK government without telling the public and it’s due to launch this month. Yikes!

  26. The edl turned up at the people’s assembly today. A small number, surrounded by police, walked straight into the throngs outside. Obviously they were challenged and there was a fracas. I had a copper say to me, “if you hit me again I’ll arrest you”. I had hit no one. Which the copper knew full well. I had asked why he wasn’t arresting an edl who had punched the man next to me. The punch had been delivered over a copper’s shoulder and the copper had then stood between us and the assailant. I saw two edl land punches on people but the police did nothing. I saw no edl arrested. But the police did arrest non-edl.

    It wasn’t overly violent, mostly pushing and shouting. The nerve of a handfull of racists to assault a mainstream political event in westminster was surprisingly ballsy. But the blatant favour and protection offered to the racists by the police was the real surporise. Very ominous. From Athens to London.

  27. On topic.
    Seems like it’s getting even more messy.
    “They are killing each other.”
    http://rt.com/op-edge/syria-dangers-arming-rebels-048/

    .
    Where are the UN lawyers on this issue?
    “….a boon to the lawyers is asset seizure, to which the Saudi Royals are very vulnerable because they have extensive personal holdings all over the world, particularly in public companies. As for the evidence, there is an endless supply of retired Intel people who can supply it, plus modern data-mining can update older information in a jiffy.”
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/06/21/310084/saudi-arabia-and-support-for-terrorism/

  28. There’s more:

    DNA data to be shared worldwide in medical research project
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/05/dna-genetic-data-shared-medical-research?INTCMP=SRCH

    The subhead on this article claims that only anonymised DNA records will go in the database, but that can’t be the whole story otherwise the article wouldn’t also include this bit:

    “We recently intercepted a young woman who was about to have a mastectomy because of a genetic mutation which we’ve now shown isn’t a problem,”

  29. Vauxhall Q Footbridge III (Definitely not Kempe, no not at all)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 9:40 pm

    MOSSAD had to kill Diana because she was on the verge of converting to Islam so she could marry Dodi Fayed. As a crucial part of the Islamic conversion ceremony Diana would have had to openly reject and condemn her previous religion which would have exposed her as being a Jew. Not only that but both her sons were born and raised in the Jewish faith, what else would explain Harry’s eagerness to kill Muslims and William losing his hair just where his caplet would rub? Once king William (AKA Velvev) will pass laws making Britain a Jewish nation, driving out the Muslims and Christians and making the country a vassal to the state of Israel.

  30. why Iran sending troops into Syria, Hezbollah doing likewise (to say nothing of their use of suicide bombers), Syria’s blowing up of a Lebanese Prime Minister, Syria’s illegal occupation of Lebanon, the Assad dynasty’s myriad breaches of human rights law do not also represent clear breaches of international law.

    As ever the bollocks of unconscious drivel getting spewed, with a one sided and jaundiced view of anything outside of the corporate medjia’s remit. Iran is sending troops to rebuild the almighty destruction unleashed on Syria by the very democratic regimes in Saudi, Qatar, their sponsored mercenaries equipped by arms supplied by the US, et al and injected through Turkey and Jordan. The whole murderous affair getting choreographed by the mercenary for hire Erik Prince ensconced in Qatar. All the while with the active support and planning, of the US and co.

    The old crap about “democracy” and “human rights” are such a worn out, and fucked up excuses, considering the episodes of Iraq, Afghanistan, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, Patriot act, Prism, Spies R us ……… These excuses no longer whitewash the theft of the resources, and repression of the owners of these resources.

    When Lebanon joins in to protect their own interests, this is portrayed as; Hezbollah terrorists fighting the “rebels”. However the same bunch of tossers complaining about the involvement of the neighbours of Syria to stop the “game changing” shenanigans of those sitting umpteen thousands of miles away and ordering the massacre, destruction of Syrians, all the while supporting the ziofuckwits and the ongoing murder fest and land theft in Palestine.

    The shameless bastards who defend such an unjust crimes against peace and crimes against humanity then wax lyrical about the “international law”!! That is fucked up taken to a new level.

  31. Thanks, V. Last I heard, the Small Five – Costa Rica, Jordan, Liechtenstein, Singapore and Switzerland (S-5) – had proposed:

    • End the P-5’s improvised back-room deals with formal UNSC rules of order.
    • Impose due process for lifting the sanctions that the P-5 impose for decades on end.
    • End the impunity that the P-5 enjoy by holding serious crimes to account, using all measures under international law.
    • Encourage the P-5 to vote no without invoking the veto power of Article 27(3).
    • Require the P-5 to justify their vetoes in terms of international law.
    • Prohibit vetoes of UN measures against the most serious crimes.

    The Small Five’s 21 points didn’t directly attack the UN’s fundamental inequities, the restricted membership of the Security Council and the veto. Those are tough nuts.

    Security Council expansion is complicated by the member states’ ambitions. Members are jockeying for position with competing proposals for permanent, renewable, or rotating seats held for various terms. Coalitions bid for new seats, weighing their ideals of rights and law against national and regional interests. The permanent members undercut broadened participation by appealing to national ambitions.

    No new member stands to gain a veto, and the P-5 refuse to cede their own. So the 21 points tried to moderate the veto power. They would subordinate the veto to the rule of law and establish precedents restricting its scope and discouraging its use. The United States, as the worst abuser of the veto, had the most to lose.

    But the S-5 withdrew the proposal when Secretariat legal counsel killed it by demanding an impossible two-thirds majority for adoption. The Small Five aimed for majority approval of their resolution, which anyway depended on the consent of the UNSC for compliance.

    Oh well. This is a project of generations, and the rule of law bloc is not giving up.

    This is a good source, http://www.centerforunreform.org/node/13

  32. Hi there Habby, re TC, yes i’m pretty sure and a soulful one at that. Clearly one of the deeper personalities around here.

    And I’m not an optimist at all, in fact if anything i tend to lapse to pessimism — for the most part i try to bring myself back to realism and awareness, the constancy of which is one of the most difficult things to be with. Still, i must say, the lack of inundation by a constant stream and barrage of random posts is helpful towards that reflective mind.

    In the same spirit i tend also to be very naive, hence my BRICS and UNSC questions. As we approached the turn of this millennium, the biggest news stories were Y2K and Blow jobs in the Oval Office. WE were (mis)lead to believe that we were marching into the rainbow. Then look what happened and where we are. But in summary, as one who understands debits and credits, the biggest hoax being pulled on us is the spend by the West (and others) on the accepted euphemism of ‘Defence’ while billions of our fellow humans live in hunger, thirst for clean drinking water and in miserable poverty. Its offensive in avery ugly way.

    Finally another of Huxley “There’s only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that’s your own self.”
    Time Must Have a Stop (1944)

    Our armchair activists who behave like they own the total space of compassion in the world — well we’ve seen how much grace some of them have. They take themselves ever so seriously and want to reprimand others who don’t immediately go ‘hear hear’. And then grace, the one thing in the shortest supply in this world goes out the window. I still can’t get over sweet Dreolin being called ‘petty’. But i’m ready now.

  33. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 10:31 pm

    “I just had a look at most of this thread and I wish I hadn’t bothered”

    Yet you got your two pence in, so it wasn’t a complete waste, now was it?

  34. Sofia Zabbalotna-Habbercake

    22 Jun, 2013 - 10:34 pm

    @ Krruppp

    Thanks. Good on the S5! I hope they keep plugging their proposals.

    …………………………………..

    @Villager 9 01pm
    “You poor soul, you really are so lost.”

    What is your problem?

    If you can’t remember your insults then try reviewing the “Arming Syria Thread” from the evening of the 16th on and on thru this “UN” thread. Do the looking yourself. You aren’t going to distract me again.

    And what on earth upsets you about me writing ….. “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?”

    Re your final paragraph about Huxley and his friend K. I’m sorry but I just can’t understand it what it has got to do with any of this stuff. I’ve no argument with either of those great men.

    Why are we wasting our time squabbling among ourselves and not discussing how to counter (as Fedup (9 46pm) puts it …“The shameless bastards who defend such an unjust crimes against peace and crimes against humanity then wax lyrical about the “international law!”

    Let’s talk about how we can empower the UN to do it’s job for once and rein in the dogs of war?

  35. “Hows the weather over there?”

    Fine, cool breeze.

    It’s been overcast unfortunately I was hoping to see the perigee moon, maybe it will be clearer tomorrow.

  36. @phil

    I hope you enjoyed your dog walk and if is is what you wanted; you found some friendship peace and tranquility.

    Enjoy your future dog walks and hold find memories of previous.

  37. Sorry typo – Fond.

  38. “I just had a look at most of this thread and I wish I hadn’t bothered”

    Surely you have something to say in response of KOWN’s post of;

    “No, I genuinely don’t believe in the existence of the ‘anti-West narrative’ that you frequently inveigh against. I do think most posters on this thread are united by disgust and anger for much of what the West does, but that is not the same thing. As for the examples you cite – mistreatment of women in India, for example – I think the reason people don’t post on such issues is simply that these things are universally condemned and hardly worth the effort of pointing out on a forum where it can be tacitly assumed most people are on the same page. What gets people’s goat here, I submit without a trace of faux-naivety, is those instances where there is a chasm between the cruel things the west does and the way they are laundered and perfumed by such organs as the BBC.”

    Which was actually addressed to the Hubbu-Clown troll, who of course didn’t answer, but instead chose to continue trolling after Mary; would you like to engage with what KOWN wrote ?

  39. Krupp thank you for enlightening us on the S-5 initiatives. I must admit i had NO KNOWLEDGE of these highly important, even if subtle, events.

    “But the S-5 withdrew the proposal when Secretariat legal counsel killed it by demanding an impossible two-thirds majority for adoption. The Small Five aimed for majority approval of their resolution, which anyway depended on the consent of the UNSC for compliance.

    Oh well. This is a project of generations, and the rule of law bloc is not giving up.”

    Which leads me to question why a 2/3’s majority is so difficult to achieve, but i imagine it has something to do with Imperialism, past and present. So that is where we come back to. But it would be good if some of these smaller countries you mentioned plus countries like Iceland and Bhutan would form their own grouping, meet regularly and provide a considered agenda that credibly challenges, even without the power-base, some of the fundamental existential inequities in the planet. I think the younger generation is ripe and ready to pick up on global policy issues with their own Govts on the streets. They could end up playing the role of Elder Statesmen, since we don’t really have any left on the Planet anymore.

    I remember sharing positive celebratory words with a young Belgian friend working with the EU commission and she cautioned with a well lets see if he acts on his promises now. How wise she was. How naive i was and still am.

    At any rate, this must be a first to be having an on-topic conversation so deep, relatively speaking, in a thread on this blog. It’s refreshing to speak with an expert rather than one more purveyor of bits from medialens and dissident voice or whatever. Nothing wrong with that, but its all about quotations, rather than creative, original, fresh thinking whatever the source. Thanks for the source.

  40. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 11:27 pm

    “MOSSAD had to kill Diana because she was on the verge of converting to Islam so she could marry Dodi Fayed. As a crucial part of the Islamic conversion ceremony Diana would have had to openly reject and condemn her previous religion which would have exposed her as being a Jew. Not only that but both her sons were born and raised in the Jewish faith, what else would explain Harry’s eagerness to kill Muslims and William losing his hair just where his caplet would rub? Once king William (AKA Velvev) will pass laws making Britain a Jewish nation, driving out the Muslims and Christians and making the country a vassal to the state of Israel.”
    ___________

    Brilliant piss-take against our amigo Trowbridge, congrats to the unknown author! :).

    Could you do one on man-made earthquakes some time (another Trowbridge speciality, I think)?

  41. Dear Sofia,
    As your father’s friend let me take you aside and share with you some home truths.

    Behind the dogs of war are the Dogs of Ignorance. Your father and I have crossed swords several times but we overcame them through grace, articulation of argument, an openness to understand each other, eventual mutual human respect and not least a sense of humour.

    You have a lot to learn about life, people, yourself. The latter apparently a self-propagated delusion as daughter of Habby. You might have pulled it off, had you half the sense of humour or intellect he has.

    Sorry to ‘distract you’, quite what i’m supposed to be distracting you from i haven’t figured.

    As for the UN, talk to Krupp — he seems immensely clued on. Good luck with your mission to change the world.

    Re “Re your final paragraph about Huxley and his friend K. I’m sorry but I just can’t understand it what it has got to do with any of this stuff. I’ve no argument with either of those great men.” Oh really, no argument, i’m sure they’re folding their hands in grace to be so lucky. But do you have the foggiest understanding of the limitations of thought, of knowledge and the ending of time? Thats what it has to do with — not signing the next petition that comes along. I petition the Lord with prayer on your behalf.

  42. “I remember sharing positive celebratory words with a young Belgian friend working with the EU commission and she cautioned with a well lets see if he acts on his promises now. How wise she was. How naive i was and still am.”
    Krupp that my reference was with to Obama’s original election.

    He has a lot more grey hair now but none the wiser imho.

  43. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    22 Jun, 2013 - 11:54 pm

    @ Macky

    You’re right, I do owe KingofWelshNoir a reply, which will follow tomorrow.

    As far as you’re concerned, my foul-mouthed and intemperate friend, I thought I’d send you this rather appropriate limerick for your bedtime reading. Please think of yourself as Lord Garsall in all but rhyme :

    “That snobbish surrealist, Garsall,
    Once did himself up in a parcel;
    He addressed it ‘Lord Garsall,
    The Keep, Garsall Castle’
    And mailed it first-class up his arsehole.”

  44. Good heaven !!

    Let that be a warning to everybody !

    If you befriend Habbu-Clown, you too will end up like Villager !

  45. Good heaven

    Let it be a lesson in identifying any number of members of a tag team quicker.

  46. At long last someone, somewhere has been forced to finally admit; the free ride is over! The fate of the US “democracy” brand is akin to that of ye olde USSR. Simply put, the US empire is imploding, and the last ditch attempts to keep it going (dronnings, wars, mass spying, repression, …..) are akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The medjia pundits can print their printers out of ink all they manage, alas the facts are not going to change.

    Those of us who witnessed the implosion of the USSR, have for long seen the parallels in the recent events which have been unfolding. Why are the BRICs are crumbling? Welcome to the permanent revolution Note the last paragraph;

    In 1989, we learned that people prefer individual freedom to communism. Today, in many countries, it is capitalism that is associated with cronyism, repressive force and elite politics, and until that changes, this Human Spring looks likely to continue.

  47. Sofia writes:

    “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled”

    Absolutely!!

    Sophisticated propaganda is built upon a false underlying narrative, myth, or story. That’s the key. It isn’t built of falsifications and lies just cobbled together, any which way.

    It has a fundamental narrative coherence, and that’s why it’s worked so well.

    The fundamental narrative of the West is, “We’re the good guys”. We can incorporate any critical or negative fact to that narrative, by simply saying that any seeming deviation from our “goodness” is a result of bad apples, mistakes, poor leadership, bad planning, unforeseen circumstances, necessity, and of course there’ll be an enquiry and we’ll learn lessons, apologize and move on etc.

    No matter what terror we visit upon others, the narrative, “We’re the good guys” thus remains.

    The primary function of our media is to ensure that all discourse is pivoted around the idea that we’re the good guys; that even the most horrible and disgusting of our crimes can be incorporated within that narrative of essential goodness.

    When the Pythons, at the setting of the sun upon the British Empire, asked ironically on behalf of its victims, “what have the Romans done for us”, they were essentially sustaining that narrative.

    The reason we rule the world today, and have ruled it for some several centuries now is precisely because we are very very very bad guys.

    And that’s a difficult narrative to sell to our own people.

  48. Thanks for the non-original limerick dear Clown, but you’re certainly no Kingsley Amis.

    There was a dull troll named Habbabkuk,
    Who thought himself somewhat of a hot-shot,
    Yet the only one who mistook him for genius,
    Was the appropriately named Village idiot.

  49. No, 2/3 shouldn’t be hard: c.f. the G-77+China, http://www.g77.org/doc/#aim
    now 4/5 of the world’s population and 2/3 of the UN membership vote:

    “We reaffirm that in our endeavours we are guided by all the principles and purposes of the United Nations Charter and by full respect for the principles of international law. To this end we uphold the principles of sovereignty and sovereign equality of States, territorial integrity and non intervention in the internal affairs of any State; take effective measures for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of peace and encourage the settlement of international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered; refrain in international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations; develop friendly relations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self determination of peoples; achieve international cooperation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion.”

    Rule of law, that’s what they want. The US keeps it at bay only with exorbitant bribes and treacherous threats, pissing away its money and legitimacy. Every American hates their fucking government, hates it like the Germans hate the Stasi. Americans simply do not know of an alternative. Imagine if they found out what’s on offer in the civilized world.

  50. Cryptonym @ 22 june “2;48 am

    I have to Agree with that. Check out this video of Gaddafi Riding Through Tripoli Exposed from Waist up passing by many thousands of people. …Imagine Obomber, or cameron trying that one…The people would be well out numbered by the thugs in anti-riot armour

    The data in this Video is all factual

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRQ6uqhLvz8

  51. Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake

    23 Jun, 2013 - 1:36 am

    Herbie 12 38am

    Spot on!

    “Sophisticated propaganda is built upon a false underlying narrative, myth, or story.”

    Even a fake 13.5yr old can get that. Thanks
    ……………………………………

    @Villager 11 41pm

    Let’s do a trade. I’ll answer two of your questions and you answer one of mine.

    You ask, “But do you have the foggiest understanding of the limitations of thought, of knowledge and the ending of time?”

    Well no. Not really. Nowhere near in fact. But I try hard enough to understand the world I find myself in and the people I encounter.

    You say “what i’m supposed to be distracting you from i haven’t figured.”

    This thread has a title, “Work for the UN.” Yes, you are distracting me from engaging with the subject of the thread.

    So, you have my two answers. Now let me ask you my question.
    Wh
    When you answered my earlier question, “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?” with a patronising “You poor soul, you really are so lost”, just what did you mean​?

    I have fallen for this kind of distraction with you before, just as I have with Dad.

    I’ve also had this experience before of asking you a reasonable question and getting patronising insults instead of answers.

    I would love just this once to receive a genuine and clear reply.

    I know you don’t think much of me and you are welcome to remind me again, but please reply to my question.
    ………………………………………….

    Macky 12 39am

    I see you too are a student of the great William McGonnigle. But will you take care with that poetry! You might wake Kibo’s muse and you never know, he may launch into a nightmare version of “The Ancient Mariner” and clog the whole blog for weeks. Gods help us.

    Goodnight all.

  52. Sayanim tag team

    23 Jun, 2013 - 5:32 am

    I wish somebody would remind Villager (aka Kempe)& Co their virtual conga on this blog is fooling nobody. And Spurs fan Giles seems to have resurfaced
    as a Diana fan (or was it Habbakyke replying to himself), seems very Herzliya to me! Mod Jon of course is your typical dumb goy, unable to see through this cabala cabal that has obfuscated the real issues in this blog.

  53. @Brian.

    I have also knowledge of Gaddafi- $13 cents a gallon, free health care, add underground water system for agriculture and gold dinah.
    All of which are unsustainable.

    As always, we haven’t all the knowledge/information.

  54. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:23 am

    @ Macky (00h39)

    “Thanks for the non-original limerick dear Clown, but you’re certainly no Kingsley Amis.”
    ___________

    Indeed not, Macky.

    The limerick in question is quoted by Kingsley Amis in his “Memoirs” (Hutchinson, London, 1991, page 143); he ascribes it to Robert Conquest, writing under the pseudonym of Victor Gray.

  55. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 8:52 am

    Statement by Julian Assange after One Year in Ecuadorian Embassy
    by Julian Assange
    June 22nd, 2013
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/statement-by-julian-assange-after-one-year-in-ecuadorian-embassy/

    ~~

    Meanwhile another brave young man is being hunted down by Amerika’s paid thugs. The word on Sky News is that he has left HK and is heading for Russia.

    ~~

    Phil @9.25pm I completely believe you.

    To the others – Good for successfully withstanding the double act in the early hours and to Fred, yes shame about the clouds obscuring the perigee moon. Perhaps better luck tonight. Moon gazing is better for the soul than reading the garbage anyway.

  56. Does anyone think the bodyguard, Rees-Jones, who survived the crash, has been frightened into silence? He seems to have experienced a rather conveniently circumscribed and permanent post-traumatic amnesia, even though, as far as one is aware, he remained conscious throughout his terrible ordeal.

    To be honest, in my conspiratorial mind, I’d half-expected his car to come off the road some years later, or something similar, but fortunately for he and his family, that hasn’t happened. Just as, in not dissimilar fashion, after 2003 I’d fully expected the USA/UK to plant WMD in Iraq in order to justify their invasion and destruction of that country. But that never happened, either, though it would’ve been very easy to have done so. Instead, the intelligence services took the flak. One is aware that it was the chamcha, Blair who ‘needed’ that particular piece of PR theatre; the psychotic Bush Admininstration needed no justification for invasion, since they ‘created their own realities’.

    Over the years, I have met people who have claimed that they have {I paraphrase] ‘done work for the government’ (the tacit assumption being that it was deniable, covert work, possibly Special Forces’ work) and who also claimed that their colleagues’ cars were [paraphrasing, again] ‘coming off the road… ‘. Indeed, ‘coming off the road’ seems to be a modus operandum, possibly because it’s so common in everyday life. As opposed to those other common metaphorical occurences of ‘going off the rails’ or ‘going round the bend’, perhaps.

    Whether the alleged ‘Diana Op’ was done by the UK or the UK and allies (UK, France and the much-loved bogeyman, Israel – a familiar alliance dating back to Suez, at least?), as Vronsky rightly suggests it remains suspicious, even among those in the outer layers of the establishment who are not normally given to such speculation. But I suspect that whoever actually did the deed (if indeed a deed was done), if it was ordered, it would have been ordered, or agreed to, by elements within the UK hard state. It could not have been done without that active or tacit approval.

    We probably will never know for certain, not even 100 years on.

    *’Chamcha’ – ‘spoon’ in Urdu – the term means, arse-licker, toady, the imagery I think being that of a smooth, curved back, forever bending over in submission, waiting for the lash. Like many such ‘spoons’, Blair is a very rich and vicious chamcha. The memorable question, put to Blair by a journalist after the death of Dr David Kelly, “Mr Blair, do you have blood on your hands” now seems rather like Cleopatra asking an asp, “Mr Asp, do you have venom in your mouth?”

  57. Sorry to butt in everyone.

    Edward Snowden has just landed in Moscow, according to the South China Morning News:

    “Whistle-blower Edward Snowden has left Hong Kong and is due to arrive in Moscow by this evening, the South China Morning Post can confirm.

    The former National Security Agency (NSA) contractor, who was last known to be hiding in Hong Kong, took off from city’s airport at 10.55am on Sunday morning was en route to Moscow’s Shermetyevo International Airport. He scheduled to arrive at 5.15pm.

    The Post was able to confirm that Snowden had been on an Aeroflot SU213 flight and headed to Moscow. Moscow will not be his final destination. Possible final destinations are either Iceland and Ecuador, according to previous media reports.

    The Russian embassy in Beijing would neither confirm nor deny Snowden is on a flight to Moscow. The Russian consulate in Hong Kong declined to comment.

    Snowden, who fled to Hong Kong on May 20, had expressed interest in seeking asylum in Iceland.”

    http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1267261/snowden-leaves-hong-kong-commercial-flight-moscow?login=1

    Not sure where I’d guess for final destination. Birgitta Jonsdottir’s been tweeting that he shouldn’t come to Iceland as “political support for him is not guaranteed”. And I guess if it was there, he’d have come by the private plane that was chartered, unless that was somehow blocked because it was already known about. Ecuador, then? Or why not Russia? Putin has already publicly offered him asylum – and that’s some BIG muscle he’d have behind him…

    And, yazzah!, it’s 9.16am GMT right now so he’s landing any minute now. Hrrraaaayyyyyyyyy!!!

  58. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 9:27 am

    It’s official. The state broadcaster confirms it.

    23 June 2013 Last updated at 09:13

    Edward Snowden leaves Hong Kong on Moscow flight Breaking news

    US intelligence fugitive Edward Snowden has flown out of Hong Kong, the Chinese territory’s government has confirmed.

    The South China Morning Post quoted “credible sources” as saying he was due to arrive in Moscow on Sunday evening.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23019414#

    Note he is an ‘intelligence fugitive’ and no longer a whistleblower.

  59. Thanks for your report on the usual political policing, Phil, Its good to see someone putting their money were their mouth is on here.

    Thanks for the update on the big DNA steal. I shall send a letter to my GP telling him that they have no authorisation to divulge my private DNA data to any third party outside the NHS.

    The reciprocal agreement between EU countries to treat each others residents, does not contain any provisions for such horse trading, afaik, and any future disclosure of information other than that of British subject should not be allowed.

  60. It is an ancient Bloggtroll,
    Pistoffeth two of three………

    Noooo!! Not even Kibo is that cruel.

    You could always have blamed Macky.
    .
    So, back to the topic.

    “States that provide arms have responsibilities in terms of the eventual use of those arms to commit … war crimes or crimes against humanity,”
    Paulo Pinheiro, chairman of the UN commission’s inquiry into rights violations in Syria.

    Good to see stirrings of life in the UN.

    From: http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-weapons-un-105/

    .
    @ phil 9 25pm

    Thanks .

    Is your experience part of the slippery slope?

    http://mwcnews.net/focus/editorial/6315-israeli-settlers-terror.html

  61. I say good luck to Ed Snowden – he is a patriot, not a traitor. The traitors are those who set up systems which breach the Bill of Rights, break US and UK laws, and break international laws. The latest reports say that he is flying out of Moscow onward to another destination.

    We need the people to wake up. If NSA and GCHQ have access to all network traffic, this includes banking transactions for example. This is a breach of security which is unauthorised and is unlawful. It is all very well Messrs. Obama and Hague patting us on the head and saying that NSA and GCHQ are run by nice guys who care about our security, but access to banking and business networks is an open door for organised crime to infiltrate.

    If one bona fide 30yr old in-house idealist can copy out and publish the information Snowden has, then what scope is there for others far dodgier within this vast surveillance system to access information which we all believe to be secure, and then to do a lot of more significant damage.

    Did this happen on Tony Blair’s watch, or has it mushroomed since then?

  62. Hi Arbed, yes i agree, why not Russia? Iceland does sound a bit iffy. But its a pity that he couldn’t stay on in HongKong. If i understand it correctly, he may have had to spend a long time jailed there while he fought an extradition request. At least he’s likely to be free in Moscow while he considers other options. Choosing Ecuador could have the risk of complicating Assange’s own ongoing negotiations, i suspect. But i share your ‘Hooray”.

    Its difficult to read the Chinese mind — if you should come across an article clarifying that, along with the hard legal position in HongKong, please do share it. Please do stay in touch. Thanks.

  63. Traditional Chinese Simplified Chinese Email this article news.gov.hk
    HKSAR Government issues statement on Edward Snowden
    ***************************************************

    The HKSAR Government today (June 23) issued the following statement on Mr Edward Snowden:

    Mr Edward Snowden left Hong Kong today (June 23) on his own accord for a third country through a lawful and normal channel.

    The US Government earlier on made a request to the HKSAR Government for the issue of a provisional warrant of arrest against Mr Snowden. Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the HKSAR Government has requested the US Government to provide additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the US Government’s request can meet the relevant legal conditions. As the HKSAR Government has yet to have sufficient information to process the request for provisional warrant of arrest, there is no legal basis to restrict Mr Snowden from leaving Hong Kong.

    The HKSAR Government has already informed the US Government of Mr Snowden’s departure.

    Meanwhile, the HKSAR Government has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. The HKSAR Government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of Hong Kong.

    Ends/Sunday, June 23, 2013
    Issued at HKT 16:05

    NNNN

  64. Sorry to have doubled up there Arbed. It was hilarious that the state broadcaster was issuing that breaking news at the same time as their reporter in HK (Southworth) was speculating at length on where Edward Snowden would be heading.

    Keep up ZBC.

    ~~

    Their reporter Ms Knell reports on the win of the young singer from the refugee camp in Gaza. This made a change from her usual work of issuing propaganda for Israel. She cannot resist a little go in the aidebox though.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23017923

    ‘Gaza has not seen celebrations or such outpouring of emotion since the end of last year’s conflict with Israel….’

    Come off it Ms Knell. It is not a ‘conflict’. It was a fully militarized war by Israel against a captive people with a few rockets. The episode she refers to was named by the Israeli government as Pillar of Cloud, another OT trope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_of_Cloud

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23017923

  65. “Krrup
    23 Jun, 2013 – 12:39 am
    No, 2/3 shouldn’t be hard: c.f. the G-77+China, http://www.g77.org/doc/#aim
    now 4/5 of the world’s population and 2/3 of the UN membership vote:”

    Krrup that’s good to know. Yes the G-77 was very active during the Cold War period. Their relevance remains as we see Wars strewn around with ever increasing numbers of casualties and increasing clashes of cultures. The UN is going to have to reinvent itself if it is going to have any credibility. Do you see that as realistic trend, or is it a pipe-dream? I fear top ‘leaders’ are so busy putting out internal fires that the thrust of attending with real strategic shifts is being neglected.

  66. Villager, 9.52am

    Chances that Edward Snowden’s final destination might be Ecuador are quite high, I think. Wikileaks’ press spokesman Kristinn Hrafnsson flew to Ecuador and he’s there right now:

    http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_06_23/WikiLeaks-Assange-Snowden-and-all-of-us-are-winning-Hrafnsson-9756/

    and he was the person who Snowden contacted for help in requesting asylum in Iceland:

    https://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/Wikileaks_Prepared_to_Help_Snowden_Get_to_Iceland_0_400758.news.aspx

    Maybe Iceland said No. I don’t think it’s likely to complicate Assange’s asylum at all (in fact, I think it would help put more pressure on the UK to give up their ridiculous stance that an invalid EAW [because they’re not supposed to be used for mere questioning] trumps international refugee law). Correa reiterated support for Assange only yesterday – says he’s welcome to stay in the embassy as long as needed and his asylum causes “no problems for Ecuador”:

    http://multimedia.telesurtv.net/media/telesur.video.web/telesur-web/#!es/video/rafael-correa-ratifica-apoyo-a-julian-assange

  67. “This thread has a title, “Work for the UN.” Yes, you are distracting me from engaging with the subject of the thread.”

    Well Krrup and i haven’t allowed ourselves to be distracted. We’ve been engaged in a very interesting conversation and i have learnt a lot from him. Please feel free to engage with him. It really is a very crucial subject relevant to all us global villagers in these critical times.

    Get back to you later on other ‘stuff’, but meantime if you can please help dig out my alleged earlier insults to you, I will be grateful.

  68. Thanks for that Arbed, and at an intellectual level you are right about Ecuador. I still worry that at a pragmatic level the powers that be will be vindictive towards Assange because of his role in helping Snowden and will be cheesed off with Correa.

    Is there a credible current analysis of what Assanges options really are? Being granted a diplomatic passport by Ecuador? The European Courts? There must be some game-plans.

  69. Hi Villager,

    Must be Ecuador:

    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 12m

    FLASH Snowden está ahora en espacio aéreo ruso y lo acompañan asesores legales de Wikileaks.
    Expand
    Reply Retweet Favourite More
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 15m

    FLASH: Mr. Snowden is currently over Russian airspace accompanied by WikiLeaks legal advisors.
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 40m

    FLASH:Wikileaks ayuda al asilo politico de Snowden, facilitando documentos y salida segura de HK hacia un pais democratico. Mas info pronto
    Expand
    WikiLeaks @wikileaks 46m

    FLASH: WikiLeaks has assisted Mr. Snowden’s political asylum in a democratic country, travel papers ans safe exit from Hong Kong. More soon.

    I’m guessing the tweets in Spanish are a big clue… haha!

    Well done, Ecuador! Well done. You have the world’s thanks for this one.
    (And no small thanks due to Assange too – He’s been campaigning for Snowden like a demon. Reporters at the conference call he held with Dan Ellsberg and Thomas Drake last Wednesday said he seemed dog-tired and virtually incoherent at times, then he cancelled his speech yesterday so I guessed no sleep for days straight while he’s been busy trying to negotiate getting Snowden the hell out of Hong Kong to somewhere safe.)

  70. Tony, thanks for your post with the HK statement — putting it to us straight from the horse’s mouth as it were. Combined with your and Arbed’s comments, it is a refreshing change from the ticker-tape style ‘breaking news’ that tends to show up with predictable frequency, with no depth or value-add, just a need to be there first.

  71. Press release from Interfax Moscow

    06/23 13:36 SNOWDEN’S ULTIMATE DESTINATION IS VENEZUELA WHERE HE WILL FLY TO FROM MOSCOW WITH STOPOVER IN HAVANA – SOURCE

  72. It is an ancient Bloggtroll,
    Pistoffeth two of three………

    Noooo!! Not even Kibo is that cruel.

    You could always have blamed Macky.
    .
    So, back to the topic.

    “States that provide arms have responsibilities in terms of the eventual use of those arms to commit … war crimes or crimes against humanity,”
    Paulo Pinheiro, chairman of the UN commission’s inquiry into rights violations in Syria.

    Good to see stirings of life in the UN.

    From: http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-weapons-un-105/

    .
    @ phil 9 25pm

    Thanks .

    Is your experience part of the slippery slope?

    http://mwcnews.net/focus/editorial/6315-israeli-settlers-terror.html

    …………………………………………..

    @ Village.r 10 26am

    You might get away with your act with the occasional visitor to these threads. But I think most regular readers will be able to write your handbook by now.

    It’s a good ploy.
    Write several pieces broadly supportive of various truth and justice strands.
    Groom occasional bright visitors who haven’t experienced yet how your team works.
    Then sow discord and confusion by attacking individual regular contributers.
    And it works. But only for a while.

    Now, I think you owe me an answer in return for the two I gave you on this thread at 1 36am.

    I’m not holding my breath but I’ll have a look this evening.

  73. That narrative, “we’re the good guys”, is being dismantled by Western whistleblowers fleeing their now overtly criminal regimes for sanctuary elsewhere.

    These are seminal moments, but I suspect the majority won’t notice until the avalanche finally engulfs them.

    Didn’t need to be this way, were western media and institutions not so criminally corrupt.

    To be fair though, it always ends like this.

    On a more positive note, the criminals who have brought us to this sorry state have nowhere else to flee.

  74. Cool, Kibo, cool.

    It was an attempted coup, and poorly executed.

  75. Having returned from a short period of self imposed exile (yes Dreolin a break is good and sorry for shouting at you Jon) I was a bit taken aback by the ongoing trolling wars here. I want to congratulate little sofia and kibo. I cannot think of a better response to the likes of villager and habakuk (may their sould rot in the dark). Once tuned in these threads can be seen as a unique, somewhat surreal, modern, artistic response to the propaganda wars. Well done.

    And thanks to the trolls for unwittingly helping us break new ground. No, actually I hope karma hunts you down.

  76. “Kibo Noh
    23 Jun, 2013 – 11:21 am

    ” Now, I think you owe me an answer in return for the two I gave you on this thread at 1 36am.”

    And the comment left at 1.36am was by one Sofia. Here is verbatim:

    ” Sofia Zabolotna-Habbercake
    23 Jun, 2013 – 1:36 am
    Herbie 12 38am

    Spot on!

    “Sophisticated propaganda is built upon a false underlying narrative, myth, or story.”

    Even a fake 13.5yr old can get that. Thanks
    ……………………………………

    @Villager 11 41pm

    Let’s do a trade. I’ll answer two of your questions and you answer one of mine.

    You ask, “But do you have the foggiest understanding of the limitations of thought, of knowledge and the ending of time?”

    Well no. Not really. Nowhere near in fact. But I try hard enough to understand the world I find myself in and the people I encounter.

    You say “what i’m supposed to be distracting you from i haven’t figured.”

    This thread has a title, “Work for the UN.” Yes, you are distracting me from engaging with the subject of the thread.

    So, you have my two answers. Now let me ask you my question.
    Wh
    When you answered my earlier question, “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?” with a patronising “You poor soul, you really are so lost”, just what did you mean​?

    I have fallen for this kind of distraction with you before, just as I have with Dad.

    I’ve also had this experience before of asking you a reasonable question and getting patronising insults instead of answers.

    I would love just this once to receive a genuine and clear reply.

    I know you don’t think much of me and you are welcome to remind me again, but please reply to my question.
    ………………………………………….

    Macky 12 39am

    I see you too are a student of the great William McGonnigle. But will you take care with that poetry! You might wake Kibo’s muse and you never know, he may launch into a nightmare version of “The Ancient Mariner” and clog the whole blog for weeks. Gods help us.

    Goodnight all.”
    —-
    So there we have it. QED
    The double-act slipped up unwittingly — couldn’t keep up with her schizophrenic self.
    I have been pointing out this sock-puppeting for a few days now but no action has been taken.
    Over to Jon now.

  77. Jon, just thought i’d flag my post above.

  78. Tony Press release from Interfax Moscow

    06/23 13:36 SNOWDEN’S ULTIMATE DESTINATION IS VENEZUELA WHERE HE WILL FLY TO FROM MOSCOW WITH STOPOVER IN HAVANA – SOURCE

    Three cheers for Edward and Julian. Out of the clutches of the Obomber thugs.

    Venceremos!

    I heard it on the radio. I bet it left a bitter taste in the state broadcaster’s mouth having to say it.

    Also heard a lot about Gideon’s further tranche of AUSTERITY. What an evil bunch they are. Out with the lot of them.

  79. What IS Villager on about?

  80. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 12:38 pm

    Since the previous limerick I posted (by the great Robert Conquest) obviously delighted its addressee “Macky”, I thought I’d post another one (again, by Robert Conquest) in the hope that at least one of our other readers will appreciate it:

    “The first man to fuck little Sophie
    Has just won the Kraft-Ebing Trophy,
    Plus ten thousand quid,
    Which, for what the chap did,
    Will be widely denounced as a low fee.”

  81. Thanks Arbed for your excellent posts, as it looks like, the misinformation spread by the NSA and Governments has failed to derail Snowden and or his supporters worldwide, great news.

    Our combined thanks should also go to Julian and Wikileaks for working non stop to help Edward leave HK and for negotiating an asylum for him in Ecuador.

    Viva Ecuador!

    When we buy computers we are not told that this implement, just as our mobiles, keep constant tabs on us, day and night.

    More whistle blowers coming forward will have a marked correlation with the increase in encryption, so it is important to enable people, inform them of the option to keep important dates offline and keep our agencies busy with very little.

    Has any of you heard much of the World bank whistle blower Karen Hudes. She is being harassed by the US courts and is of the opinion that the fed and Goldmann Sachs as well as other large banks are one large banking conglomerate hell bent on control of the markets.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oSiJQituAo

    Phil, karma karma, self harmer.

    I’m in London on the 3rd. but not for long, but you are welcome to come up here for a pub assault course and dog walking weekend here, who knows, we might even run into Komodo if he’s around and fancies a jar of ale.

  82. The troll-in-chief is getting mucky again. Must have been rattled.

    ~~

    ‘Suspicious item’ found outside a mosque in Walsall.

    Who would stoop that low? Silly question.

  83. Flaming June
    23 Jun, 2013 – 12:35 pm
    What IS Villager on about?
    ——-
    Very simple Mary. Sofia and Kibo are one and the same person. Hence they have been sock-puppeting as they say.

    You use different names but one at a time and you quite rightly have never denied that you are Mary. I think you should come back in that name now — no need to wait till July.

    Stay well and have a good day, hopefully with a laugh or two added.

    One day i might share how i uncovered the Sofia-Kibo gloves.

  84. Ha ha ha Habbakuk

    Brilliant one! Touche! .

  85. Why do people bother posting with persistent personas anyway? Don’t see any reason why a recognizable nym should outlive a particular topic. If everybody posted as a disembodied voice, there would be less spatting and pestering and more focus on the content. Genuine trolls would knock themselves out trying to figure out who’s who, and GCHQ databases would burgeon with relational crap that takes human intervention to sort out.

    Having said that, now I’m going to kill this nym. Goodbye, cruel world.

  86. Fecking hell is there a day that goes by without these ziofuckwits running to “sir”/Jon and telling on the others? The tag team of the cabalistic/Talmudic tossers are writing limericks promoting paedophilia, now.

    ===========

    Snowden has upset Trowbridge big time! The puny Snowden is not staying put in one place to spy, unless he has picked up the package he was supposed to pick up and is on his way to hand it over to a covert CIA agent somewhere in the world!!???

    However seriously must hand it to this guy, he has been playing the game just right, and seems to be staying one step ahead of the CIA all the way. The fact that en mass spying has not resulted in picking up Snowden calls for a new program of spying on the spies, which of course will mean to set up an outfit to spy on the spies, who are spying on people, and so forth. The plot is getting to be like the old Japanese gangster movies more and more by the minute.

  87. Nevermind, 12.41pm

    Thanks. All the news reports are saying the final destination is Venezuela but my money’s still on it being Ecuador – that was the first suggestion Assange made, even before Snowden’s identity was known. I’m also going on recent comments by Assange as to why he chose Ecuador himself in the first place. He said it was because of a “strong president in the region”. I don’t think you can extend that to Maduro – his election win was a much closer call than expected, contrasted with Correa’s runaway success during Ecuador’s elections in February. He’s firmly installed for another four years – that’s the kind of stability Snowden will be looking for.

    PS. My earlier posts were wrong about the landing times (I was going by the flight times given in the South China Morning Post minus 8 hours to get GMT, but seems that’s not right somehow) – apparently Snowden’s still in the air, travelling with Wikileaks staffer Sarah Harrison and due to be met by diplomats from the “third country” in Moscow airport transit section, and accompanied by them from there.

  88. Will be interesting to see if Washington goes all out to get Edward Snowden – as Reagan did with the PLF killers of Leon Klinghofer – or just let him disappear in Iceland or in some country in South America.

    Obama could arrange for American fighters, particularly carrier-based ones, to intercept a flight to any of those places, and force it to land in the UK, Florida, or Puerto Rico.

    Suspect Washington has warned Moscow of helping the leaker avoid justice, and remains to be seen if Putin still allows Aeroflot or other carriers take him out of Russia.

    Doubt that Washington will go to the brink over it, but Snowden has caused the USA much more damage than Abu Abas’s killers.

  89. Here’s a bit of confirmation that indicates the Wikileaks Grand Jury is set on “conspiracy to commit espionage” charges against Julian Assange(probably already in a sealed indictment):

    This article is about the recently unsealed subpoenas for the Gmail accounts of ex-Wikileaks volunteers Smari McCarthy and Herbert Snorrson:

    http://mashable.com/2013/06/22/google-wikileaks/

    Key quote from the article: “The information seized is a vast trove of metadata going as far back as Nov. 1, 2009.” – That date is the one that US prosecutors in Bradley Manning’s trial have insisted on for the Garani video being sent to Wikileaks (despite clear evidence to the contrary that Bradley sent it in April 2010), because otherwise they can’t say Wikileaks’ tweet of 8 January 2010 about their receipt of an Afghani airstrike amounts to evidence of a conspiracy.

  90. Washington will only get crazed about Snowden if he has some more dangerous beans to spill, which I doubt. They would not escort nor shoot his plane down, nor compromise themselves with China, Russia – nor Cuba, Ecuador nor Venezuela for that matter, because it isn’t worth it. They’ll figure they’ll get him sooner or later and have done enough to put other wannabe whistle-blowers off for the moment. In the meantime as with Assange he is imprisoned albeit not in Guantanamo nor anywhere in the US, but he is effectively behind bars and under control.

    Damage limitation will be the name of the game. Washington is anxious to crush Assad then Iran. That will be higher priority than shutting up a whistleblower who has already done most of the damage he could ever do. Poking China or Russia with sharp sticks over Snowden will slow down Washington’s bloodlust for the crushing of Assad and Iran. They will think Russia and China will let them get on with Assad’s demise in the end.

  91. Flaming June

    23 Jun, 2013 - 2:37 pm

    Villager What I care to call myself is none of your business. Nor is it any business of ‘sweet Dreoilin’ who, if I remember correctly, leapt in following the chief troll to tell everybody who April Showers was when I changed my name and has reminded since. At the time I was attempting to escape from the troll’s unpleasant attentions. It is totally against my nature to be deceptive and I hated using a name other than my real name.

    She even had to jump in on this thread. “Mummy Mummy it wasn’t him. Look. It was ‘Flaming June’.” I don’t know where the perceived animus arises as I can remember being supportive of her with family worries in the old days, when the EU bankers were shafting her country and when the Irish banks and economy crashed, etc. I actually share a common heritage. My father came from Limerick.

    Anyway all of this is totally trivial and a diversion has successfully been created again by trolls. There are very important things going on in the real world.

  92. There can be little doubt that Snowden has more damaging information about what happened to leakers like GCHQ/MI6 agent Gareth Williams and his GCHQ associate Gudrun Loftus.

    Williams was involved in setting up CIA sleeper agents aka the Manhattan 11 as Russian spies, and was in the process of taking that information to Moscow when he was poisoned, it seems, by NSA hitmen – what Executive Director William KIng Harvey had established during his last days with CIA.

    For more on them, read Bamford about its establishment in Beltsville, MD.

    Williams went to Washington after the fiasco was settled by Putin, and he could well have been looking for fellow hacker Snowden who helped out in breaking into their lap tops to make himself more attractive to Moscow, and was obviously upset by his fate. He only became a loose cannon when NSA tried to get rid of him by joining him to the honey-trap that Ben Bishop had fallen for.

    Suspect that what Snowden knows about the fate of serious NSA leakers is why Putin is so willing to help out, and he will disclose them if Washington goes bonkers over Snowden’s escape,

    Consequently, Obama will not only let him escape, and be more supportive of Russia’s approach to the Syrian conflict for fear that Moscow will reveal more of what Snowden has stolen from NSA.

  93. Krrrrpppp p 23 Jun, 2013 – 1:22 pm
    “Why do people bother posting with persistent personas anyway…and GCHQ databases would burgeon with relational crap that takes human intervention to sort out.”

    I doubt GCHQ relies on human intervention to track people who change their online name. They are probably a little more sophisticated than that.

    Like others here I prefer to use my real name. Fear is a weapon. Not being afraid is the only response. People tend to rationalise their fear with concerns about tax or weed or some such thing. But that’s crap. Noone is innocent. Fight the fear. Grab your rollys there’s a meeting down the docks!

  94. @Nevermind – sounds great. Please get my email off our mutual friend and drop me a line.

  95. Good article exploring the Intelligence protection racket.

    “The intelligence-security industry isn’t about protecting the United States or you, except for extraordinarily rare, virtually accidental occurrences. It’s about wealth and power. Yet every politician and every government functionary speaks reverently of the sacred mission and crucial importance of “intelligence” in the manner of a syphilitic preacher who clutches a tatty, moth-eaten doll of the Madonna, which he digitally manipulates by sticking his fingers in its orifices. Most people would find his behavior shockingly obscene, if they noticed it. But they don’t notice it, so mesmerized are they by the preacher with his phonily awestruck words about the holy of holies and the ungraspably noble purpose of his mission. Even as the suppurating sores on the preacher’s face ooze blood and pus, his audience can only gasp, “We must pay attention to what he says! He wants only the best for us! He’s trying to save us!””

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35389.htm

  96. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 3:52 pm

    “Fear is a weapon. Not being afraid is the only response”

    ________

    The above, from Phil, is one of the sanest comments on this thread.

  97. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 3:53 pm

    HK made a rather extraordinary statement in connection with the exit. Citing Manning, the US is now anti-dissident on the World stage. It’s quite a slap in the face.

    Russia’s involvement shouldn’t include any self-righteous sniggering until Pussy Riot gets out of jail free.

  98. What a great woman.A must watch.Copy left right and centre.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_-Ie6JQquM

  99. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 3:57 pm

    “There are very important things going on in the real world.”

    And certainly there is sufficient animosity. Keeping close alliances with supportive and non-enabling discussions without acrimony will get more important than ever. No need to fight with fellow dissidents.

  100. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    23 Jun, 2013 - 4:04 pm

    From Flaming June :

    “…following the chief troll to tell everybody who April Showers was when I changed my name and has reminded since.”
    ____________

    On the assumption that “the chief troll” is a reference to me, I do plead guilty to having identified “April Showers” as Mary redux (is that the right Latin expression, Doug Scorgie?).

    But, you see, it wasn’t difficult for someone as acute as I, or even for those less so: the name changed, but the person was easy to identify because the style (I shall remain polite!), the subjects, the general philosphy and even the frequency of the comments were unchanged from those of the Mary who left vowing never to return.

    If this sounds as if I agree with KrrrpppP, who said earlier on that

    “Why do people bother posting with persistent personas anyway? Don’t see any reason why a recognizable nym should outlive a particular topic.”

    then you would be wrong. As someone else wrote, quite recently, keeping the same name does provide other readers with some history and context and thus makes it easier for them to evaluate comments from the same person but on different subjects.

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