Wreck of the Emma 106


Some of the information that gets volunteered from readers of my blog for use in my Sikunder Burnes book has been quite extraordinary.  So, with continued hope and gratitude, let me try this one – can anyone discover anything more about the wreck of the ship Emma in 1821 en route to India – and particularly if there were fatalities?  Was it a private or East India company ship?  All I can find so far online is this database, which has a British ship Sarah going down in Table Bay South Africa in a storm in 1821.  That would make sense en route to India.  At 467 tons its around the right size.


106 thoughts on “Wreck of the Emma

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  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    @ Doug Scorgie (16h07)

    Interesting questions, but how on earth are we supposed to know?

    Why don’t you approach the police and the media directly and report back with your findings?

  • doug scorgie

    Apropos to my post above at 4:07pm

    Another example of the different way the police handle crimes carried out by the powerful as opposed to the way they handle the same by “Joe Public”.

    “Charles Saatchi cautioned for Nigella Lawson assault”

    “Scotland Yard said a 70-year-old man “voluntarily attended a central London police station and accepted a caution for assault” on Monday afternoon”

    Being invited to attend a police station (no doubt at a time and date at his convenience) rather than arrested then being given a caution rather than prosecuted, despite all the evidence in the public domain and plenty witnesses.

  • Komodo

    Why don’t you approach the police and the media directly and report back with your findings?

    Possibly for the same reasons as you don’t. After all, you’re fond of asking questions, if not so good at spotting when there’s no point in asking them.

  • Flaming June

    Troll Yes Christians and Muslims were involved in the slave trade. I looked at the same Wikipedia page yesterday too.

    ‘Jews and the slave trade

    Like their Christian and Muslim neighbors, the Jewish people have historically owned and traded in slaves. In the middle ages, Jews were minimally involved in slave trade.[1] During the 1490s, trade with the New World began to open up. At the same time, the monarchies of Spain and Portugal expelled all of their Jewish subjects. As a result, Jews began participating in all sorts of trade on the Atlantic, including the slave trade.’

    Note the American spelling of neighbors. I noted that the article was part of the series on anti-Semitism which I found puzzling. Surely it was about slave trading. Who decided that there should be separate pages? It was ‘Noleander’ a senior editor.

  • Passerby

    Komodo said:

    I’ve been wanting to strangle Nigella for years…

    Don’t joke about it. The fear and humiliation so apparent in her eyes, leaves little room for any kind of triviality. Further, to find the infantile and stupid rationalisation of the perpetrator of those despicable acts of violence is an insult to anyone’s intelligence.

    Violence ought to be abhorred in all its forms, be it state aggression, ie warmongering, or those kicking the crap out of any stranger in the streets, or those men or women who find the best way of affecting change of behaviour in their “partners” is through a good dose of beating.

    There are many victims of violence, and you will find none of them think it is fun, or funny. However whilst the appalling images of assault on Nigella are being pounced upon by those earning their living out of the misery of the victims of violence, spare a thought for the men who are getting beat up and have to cope with keeping silent about their tormentors whom happen to be their wives, or partners.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    @ Komodo

    “I’ve been wanting to strangle Nigella for years…”
    _____

    You show deplorably bad taste in that case. She’s a rather beautiful woman and, far from being strangled, should be cloned in the interests of beautifying further the public space.

    Seriously though : of course I don’t know exactly what happened, I wasn’t there and I have no idea what Saatchi might have said at his interview with the police. This puts me in the same position as all other commmenters on this blog. But I must say that the photos contained in the link someone or other supplied here do not appear, all of them at least, to show signs of fear and humiliation (I’ll admit immediately that I may be mistaken).

    Enough of that, I think.

  • Komodo

    You show deplorably bad taste in that case. She’s a rather beautiful woman and, far from being strangled, should be cloned in the interests of beautifying further the public space.

    I admit, I have always been conflicted on this. But I think we should be countering encouragements to obesity, as well as discouraging the intentionally provocative behaviour leading inevitably to grievous misapprehensions on the part of the insensitive as to who is and who is not sexually available. And, regardless of Passerby’s PC outburst, on the whole I have wanted to strangle her for years, and I don’t do retrospective PC, sorry.

    *ducking*

  • Komodo

    And if Nigella ever met me, she would undoubtedly want to strangle me, so fair’s fair. The key word is probably ‘want’. The key initials are SOH.

  • Passerby

    And, regardless of Passerby’s PC outburst

    I would have blasted away at anyone else, but seeing as it is the Olde Lizard, perhaps there is a need for further elaboration;

    1- I am not PC,
    2- Not jumping on the band wagon
    3- Having seen a little five years old girl who was afraid of any men, and I had to sit there for thirty minutes without so much as moving a muscle, and witness her keeping an eye on me from the corner of her eyes. finally plucking up enough courage to poke me in the ribs and run away and turn back to find me still sitting there. Finally relaxing and starting to play.

    The girl’s father had stabbed her mother to death, whilst she was screaming her head off, and the child was hiding under the staircase. So it is not PC or for that matter anything else, other than knowing that there is no such a concept as controlled violence.

    Violent couples ought not be living together, these ought to understand; there is no concept as a little bit of a violence, and there can be no room for any kind of violence at home.

    Thus the comment, we can laugh and make fun, but to find such a prominent woman getting abused, so openly, and then to be subjected to the infantile bullshits of a rich wanker in justification of his deplorable actions, is not a subject for laughs.

    We all know that the rich twat’s mates in no time will try and defuse the situation by making jokes and poking fun at this dreadful public episode, which is a green light for the tossers who can hardly count beyond the digits on their hands.

  • Komodo

    My assumption is that they were both pissed, in fact. And there’s a damn sight worse goes down on a Friday night between ill-matched nonentity couples in any city centre. Point being, if the incredibly publicity-conscious Saatchi had meant any permanent damage (or wasn’t on another planet due to the Colombian marching powder, in which case blame sleb culture), would he have done that in public? In the certain knowledge that there was a paparazzo behind every, er, bush?

    As to prominent women getting abused, yes. Remember when Rebekah Brooks nee Wade lamped her then husband, Ross Kemp? (Later they parted on the grounds of Kemp’s adultery, so she could have had some cause, much as I detest her). No action was taken. No doubt Kemp was too terrified of his evil and dominant spouse to take it to the police….

    Slightly more seriously, how do you propose to ban violence? My experience is, if you push people (or any other animal) beyond a certain point, the violence kicks in automatically and disconnects any rationality that may be present. Even more seriously, and highly contentiously, do you believe that 0% exactly of battered wives have incessantly, over a period of years and in a high whiny voice, been pressing the violence button on their not very bright and relatively uninhibited partners? Really?

  • Flaming June

    I always feel for the children who are from her first marriage to John Diamond in this case.

    The combined wealth of Saatchi/Lawson of £128m (D Mail) does not appear to have brought them much happiness. Their neighbours hate the rows they hear. The Saatchi couple have also been involved in the basement wars but hypocritically, did the same to new neighbours when they moved.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/10025473/Basement-extensions-and-the-rise-of-the-Iceberg-Home.html

    In contrast, I met two happy humans this morning. One, a middle aged man photographing insects, flowers and plants on the riverbank. He showed me what he had photographed. One was a tiny beetle with a shiny green iridescent body and a pointed snoutlike head. Like a little jewel. The other was a young chap called Ben who was drawing, in great architectural detail, one of the Victorian lock keepers’ cottages. He was using pen and ink and it was an excellent representation. He told me that his great granddad who is still alive in his 90s and who had worked as a window cleaner, had started him off by teaching him how to draw and paint.

    Two uncomplicated humans, seemingly totally happy unlike the unfortunate Saatchi couple, and the contact with them made me feel happy too. I walked home through the meadow which is full of buttercups and grasses all taller than me, and I am tall! So beautiful.

  • doug scorgie

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    18 Jun, 2013 – 11:47 am

    “I don’t know exactly what happened, I wasn’t there and I have no idea what Saatchi might have said at his interview with the police.”

    I’ll tell you what he said:

    “yes I committed assault” or words to that effect.

    People are not offered a caution by the police unless they admit their guilt.

    “But I must say that the photos contained in the link someone or other supplied here do not appear… to show signs of fear and humiliation.”

    Perhaps you couldn’t be arsed to research for yourself, the photos available online.

    Anyway the police and witnesses disagree with you HB.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    @ Doug Scorgie (Dishonesty my speciality) :

    You’re being naughty again! You quote me as follows :

    “But I must say that the photos contained in the link someone or other supplied here do not appear… to show signs of fear and humiliation.”

    FULL quotation of what I wrote (emphasis added) :

    “But I must say that the photos contained in the link someone or other supplied here do not appear, ALL OF THEM AT LEAST, to show signs of fear and humiliation (I’LL ADMIT IMMEDIATELY THAT I MAY BE MISTAKEN).”

    Not quite the same, eh, Doug?

    You’ve been caught out again.

  • frid

    The Derby (England) Mercury of 18 April 1821 reports that on 04 January 1821 the Emma and two other ships were found driven onshore at Table Bay due to a “hurricane” the previous night. A local, Frank Rose, ran out on horseback to bring a rope from the Emma to the shore, saving the crew and passengers. He was drowned, however, when waves threw him from his horse after he tried to reach one of the other ships (which was Danish).

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