I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
“But for F/S don’t pull the “do you know TWA 800″ trick.
The NTSB found “probable cause” it was/has not been confirmed.”
You sure buried that lede. FFS how many witnesses were dismissed because their observations did not fit the criteria? You certainly have a great deal of trust in Federal investigations.
James
25 Mar, 2014 – 3:12 pm why don’t you just give the hell up ?
I KNOW that’s what happened. I have read the transcript of the investigation as well.
I can’t be bothered talking to u
Donald
25 Mar, 2014 – 3:12 pm fantastic excuses were a feature of Chevaline as well as you probably know.
In spite of analyzing Doppler shift, which convinced Inmarsat that the plane flew the southern arc, it appears determination of the final crash site is still calculated on assumptions about when it ran out of fuel.
How can they know that if the aircraft went up to +40,000 feet, then dropped to 12,000 and/or 5,000 feet. Or are those stories also discredited or denied or retracted, and where did they originate?
If the pilots took it down to 12,000 feet, how did it get back to normal cruising altitude and speed along the southern arc? Doppler analysis shows it was traveling at 450 nmph, it’s normal cruising speed.
Several reports say the Doppler analysis compared MH370 to other 777s flying “the exact same track” which I thought unusual since we’re told the area is isolated. The Washington Post blog (ref above), explains the comparison was to 777 tracks at the same time — not the exact same track — and that verified the theory. Another example of sloppy reporting.
There’s still the question of why not a single Emergency Locater Beacon — which transmit to a satellite network and are activated by salt water — was activated? If the plane crashed violently and broke apart, at least one of these should transmit.
A little levity. Linguistics in commercial flight—(disclaimer-angrarian George Carlin)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPy5Ikn7dw
Ben
I have no trust in “federal investigations”.
Tell me, what “facts” do you “trust” ?
Odd rants on the internet by the likes of oddballs like “TimV” ?
Have you read his shite ?
Seriously you cannot be as barking as he is ? Surely.
“I have no trust in “federal investigations”.”
When someone asks a question, in answer to a question, I generally find evasion is the key.
You seemed to swallow the NTSB flounder, whole, whilst it was the FBI elbowing their way in.
Are you sure you are familiar with the facts?
Ohhh !
It was a question Ben ! Why don’t like questions ?
Ah. I state something, you question.
You state nada, I don’t get to ask ? I get it
In the days gone by, we use to use the word “crank”.
Now I guess we can’t say that.
Ben…
Best bet. Stick to “cut n paste”. I see you like that.
No facts. No idea. Just “click and slide and paste that baby”
No “thinking” needed !
For general consumption; JTRIG modeling.
https://prod01-cdn00.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2014/02/deception_p24.png
Furthermore.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
Oh… here we go !
Disagree with Ben and he “fires out” “EVERYONE…HE’S AN AGENT OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER” !
Classic. (no answers, just classic behaviour).
NEXT !
Q
25 Mar, 2014 – 4:15 pm glad you haven’t given up on Cranswick and the Melbourne connection. I’m still swooning over the SST/Freescale/Huawei/Shane Todd/Saad al Hilli connection not to mention the duplicate B777/Israel embassy closure/israeli suggestion plane stolen by iran for terror attack/Garcia closed for business/statement everyone dead before any identifiable wreckage found/”nothing to see all move on there”
Then again I was thinking, rather like Chevaline, the best laid plans and all that. What if the intended plan didn’t quite work out. Lets assume Crashed into Gulf of Thailand can’t be found” whilst plane slips off somewhere else. Ruined by “blips” evidence. Now we have to dispose of plane completely – southern ocean they’ll never find it there. On top of a volcano even better.
So on dates 15th March of course is significant “Beware the ides of March” so I checked to see and got this: The first one particularly but also note they didn’t give up on the northern search until the inmarsat info. which had been held back.
“March 15: It is reported that a British satellite system operated by Inmarsat received an automated signal from flight MH370 at least five hours after the plane was reported lost.
March 15: Vietnam ends search for the missing jet since nothing is found in the South China Sea.
March 15: Police search the homes of pilot Captain Zaharie Ahmed Shah and co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid and find a personal flight simulator in Zaharie’s residence.
March 15: The Thai navy suspends its search over the Gulf of Thailand and Andaman Sea.
March 15: India intensifies efforts by deploying additional naval and air assets for searching an expanded area in central and east Bay of Bengal and the Andaman Sea.”
The 15th March was also a significant Chinese anniversary
2003 – Hu Jintao takes over presidency for the People’s Republic of China.
Now I’m starting to wonder if the original plan wasn’t a terror attack on the 15th claiming it was the hi jacked plane that had to be aborted given the pesky inmarsat intervention.
Pure speculation but you know how these ppl like dates and anniversaries. Might set a few hares running.
For those unfamiliar with the Ides of March it was that date Julius Caesar was stabbed to death by Brutus. There are some interesting anniversaries for both the 8th and 15th see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_8
Q
25 Mar, 2014 – 4:15 pm “Mind the Gap!” “Mind the Gap!”
James
25 Mar, 2014 – 10:55 pm we all can see you’re an ignorant git James and stupid with it. More than that you seem intent on misinterpreting what I say to conclude it is rubbish and me with it. Presumably this fulfils your defined task to seed dissension on the thread, to undermine the credibility of everyone but yourself, to twist and malign anything you have a mind to or when ever anyone one gets close to what actually happened. You are a confounded nuisance and it doesn’t surprise me that the two places you say you originate from are long-standing loci of conflict and violence. Isn’t it time you just flew out of here and left us in peace?
This sister plane information makes sense of the reported sighting over the Maldives. The two eye witness accounts that I read said that the plane came from the NW and headed SE.
If a sister plane, set up as a drone assuming it was crashed, left the Middle East at about the same time as MH370 was taken over it would have been in that area at that time. The media put out the eye witness accounts just for long enough to turn our attentions to the southern arc and Diego Garcia.
Meanwhile the stolen aircraft could have been spirited North, that’s if the Imersat arc information is true, or anywhere if it is not.
The stolen plane would then take the place of the crashed “sister”.
China first (mistakenly) reported a satellite image of debris and also acoustic data of a sea-floor event in the same original area. They were the first to supply another satellite image of debris in the current search location, off Perth. That was backed by French radar satellite data. Since then nothing. No other country reports anything, other than UK and Inmarsat.
“The numbers vary among estimates, but there are between 3,200 to 3,500 functioning artificial satellites in Earth orbit. Russia has the greatest number at around 1,437. The U.S. is second with 1,099 satellites in orbit.”
http://www.howmanyarethere.org/how-many-satellites-are-in-space/
“As of 2008, the former Soviet Union and Russia had nearly 1,400 satellites in orbit, the USA about 1,000, Japan more than 100, China about 80, France over 40, India more than 30, Germany almost 30, the UK and Canada 25, and at least ten each from Italy, Australia, Indonesia, Brazil, Sweden, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, and South Korea. Some satellites, called microsats, nanosats, or picosats, can be as small as 10 cm (3.937 inches) in diameter and 0.1 kg (0.22 pounds) in mass.”
http://www.wisegeek.com/how-many-satellites-are-orbiting-the-earth.htm#didyouknowout
What happened to DigitalGlobe and its Tomnod crowd-sourcing?
Surely a few of the above, especially spy satellites, would cover the area of interest and there’s enough time elapsed to allow analysis of data. Why didn’t spy satellites tasked with monitoring the entire electromagnetic spectrum detect the ACARS pings/handshakes from the plane?
I received a reply from Cgristopher
Here are the exact quotes I sent him. [Clearly the most substantial thing that has come out of this thread since it started. It’s a breathtaking find, and normal, honest people (i.e. not evil) have naturally great difficulties in figuring out what this is all about, and what this identical extra plane can be used for. However I think the mission has been aborted, because due to the information-level today — no least thanks to the uncontrollanle internet — Israel cannoy pull off another 9/11, and the US (Who do have their own capabilities — enhanced since 9/11 – when it comes to snooping and findingh out what’s going on) may have called Israel to order abd forced them to abort mission.
_____________________________
Bluebird:
FRIDAY, MARCH 14 – The hunt spreads west to the Indian Ocean after the White House cites unspecified “new information” that the jet may have flown on after losing contact.
March 16, 2014: “What happened to this aircraft, nobody knows. My guess is based upon the stolen passports, and I believe Iran was involved,” he said. “They hijacked the aircraft and they landed it in a place that nobody can see or find it.”
http://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-el-al-expert-iran-likely-involved-in-mh-370/
Is Srulik miffed that Uncle Sam kept him in the dark? Or is Israel correct and the aircraft has been stolen. President Obama makes this statement at the G7 Nuclear Summit in Brussels: “I continue to be much more concerned when it comes to our security with the prospect of a nuclear weapon going off in Manhattan.”
Is the search in the Indian Ocean a distraction from what really happened. 80% of the media now accept a crash at sea as hard fact and concentrate on the search for wreckage. 20% still question how it’s a known fact, based only on the Inmarsat theory (which they now admit is based on estimates of remaining fuel for final location on the arc).
One commentator said some experts are even questioning Inmarsat’s analysis via Doppler Effect and the same result can be obtained by the plane flying in a circle. I don’t understand the reasoning and could find nothing about it on the web.
The Inmarsat pings/handshakes are still variously reported as approximately one per hour or one per half-hour. The WSJ has a story on the last partial-ping which Inmarsat says it’s still trying to understand.
http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702304679404579461900800102412-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwNTEyNDUyWj
Forgive me if this is already covered but in an article in the Guardian it states that the northern route was not eliminated by a a refinement of the Inmarsat data, as implied by Malasian press conference but by inference in that “there were no correlating reports from civil defence units monitoring borders” to support a southern route.
But there were no correlating reports from civil defence units supporting the southern route either?
Since absence of data from systems of unknown status at the time of the event and unknown official secret policy, then if Charles Arthur of the Guardian is correct, the Northern route has not been fully ruled out.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/25/airliners-should-broadcast-location-every-15-minutes-says-inmarsat-expert?commentpage=1
Rob Royston
26 Mar, 2014 – 2:38 am
Those sightings in the Maldives are key, they very fact they’ve been silenced is suspicious because the last figure I read was 12 witnesses.
To ignore them as false is an insult to those people.
It would seem that because the ‘authorities’ cannot fit such a thing as a low flying plane into their scenario of what happened they prefer to believe 12 liars reside in the Maldives.
NR, you clearly understand the technical side of all this, so can I ask, the doppler effect can only be felt/heard when a plane is travelling ?
Originally those pings were said to be coming purely from the aircraft………….airborne or stationary,now are they saying they were DEFINITELY sure they came from an airborne plane ?
Likewise, didn’t they originally say there was no way of knowing, location ,height or speed of pinging aircraft ?
Another thing, I understand the ping is a signal … could what they are calling the ‘doppler’ effect, in this case, simply be an echo & nothing to do with speed or movement ?
Just supposing the plane was in a hangar [ or underground ] at DG , do hangars have metal walls, could the ping be bouncing off them creating an echo ?
My feeling is Imaarset who have said this is new technology , could have it wrong
INTP1
I see that article is now saying 8 pings, at first it was 5 then 6…can we expect 9 tomorrow ?
Yes the Malaysians said at yesterdays press conference that all searching had been terminated in the northern corridor & around Thailand.
That’s right. Intp1. It is typical of the [Ameican] establish,emt that rules the world, that they want to find a [quick] solution and move on. And explanation that can put the matter to rest, so that the relatives can move on. If Americans are involved in this deception it must be in order to — again, again — cover the asses of the Israelis, who no doubt again had been scheeming like they did on that fateful September day in 2001. To put the matter at rest in the waters off [the orderly] Australias coast, and in one of the remotest spots on this Earth, with miles of depth and an underwater volcano on top of it, seems ideal.
And now the matter has been put to rest, nobody should be asking ackward questiona as for what the hihacked plane was intented to do. In the ACKWARD ZIONIST MIND, IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IRAN.
@katie 26 Mar, 2014 – 6:59 am
The Doppler Effect depends upon the source (plane) moving away from or toward the receiver (satellite). There’d be no effect (frequency shift + or – ) if the plane was stationary on the ground and the satellite was in a geo-synchonus orbit, appearing stationary from the earth.
However, I’ve seen Inmarsat saying one time the satellite was a geo-synchonus one above the equator and another time that it was over the Indian Ocean, which would only be true if it was a polar orbit satellite, and thus moving.
It’s likely this is mis-reporting and if it was a polar orbit satellite, Inmarsat almost certainly took into account it’s movement. As I said above some experts claim the findings could be duplicated, in theory, by a plane flying in a circle. Don’t yet understand this.
Some readers’ comments from RT.
1. On locating the wreck, if all else fails: “Finally, secret intelligence from nuclear submarines may be used, if that can be done without revealing their sophisticated instruments or the location of these clandestine vessels.”
2. On radar profile: “Even with the transponder OFF, the radar cross section of a Boeing 777 with its two huge engines is enormous, entirely visible to all commercial and military radar stations, that large blip simply wouldn’t show MH370 and the altitude marker from the transponder squawk.”
3. “Either both Indonesia,Singapore are seriously lying regarding the actual route that MH370 took OR that airliner didn’t take the widely pushed Southern Route down to the worst possible recovery area in the Southern Hemisphere.”
“The turbine vanes on the huge 777 engines both reflect a radar image like 2 huge spotlights, impossible to miss.”
4. “Mother Russia is the strongest the most powerful nation in history! Russia knows how to find the plane instantly!”
BLUEBIRD yesterday produced the most substantial revelation, that yet have come out of this thread.
___________________________
Upon sending it to Christopher,
I received this reply
katie 26 Mar, 2014 – 6:59 am
“Likewise, didn’t they originally say there was no way of knowing, location ,height or speed of pinging aircraft?”
That was when they were talking only of the pings themselves, not their change in frequency — before somebody thought of using the Doppler Effect to detect speed and direction. I’m not clear on how they’re finding altitude. Inmarsat said it was flying at normal cruising altitude. There may be an indirect indication of that.
Echoes would not introduce Doppler frequency shift unless whatever the pings reflected from was moving.
One CNN expert called for Inmarsat to release the calculations so they could be checked by others.
In other News:
US Negro think he’s smart: ‘Russia cannot hope to match global might of America,’ says Barack Obama in warning to Vladimir Putin”
Way off topic, but Jeffrey Epstein‘s name came up way back, when we were discussing two lusty Generals, Tampa socialites, Ms. Emma Sayles and Kate Middleton.
“The former philandering president has been named in one-time pal Jeffrey Epstein‘s sleazy sex lawsuit, and the allegations are disturbing.”
http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/03/26/bill-clinton-involved-in-sex-orgy-lawsuit-that-could-crush-hillarys-presidential-run/