If bombing a country really made it better, we would have made a paradise of Iraq by now. Instead it is a total disaster, with access to electricity, drinking water, education and health services all far worse than they were before we started bombing it. That is even without the growth of the Caliphate, or ISIS, a direct result first of our deposing Saddam and conniving in the intolerant Shia rule of Maliki, and then of our connivance in arming and funding anyone willing to fight Assad.
So now we are told we have to bomb Iraq yet again, and this time, finally, that will make it all better. There are two extraordinary contradictions in the British position.
1) The justification in international law given by the neo-cons for the current bombing of Iraq is that it is at the invitation of the government of Iraq. But simultaneously they propose to bomb Syria to attack the government of Syria. This is the most astonishing hypocrisy.
2) The Caliphate forces were encouraged and trained by the CIA initially. They continue to be massively financed from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States. In fact, the Caliphate is still funded to a massive degree from the very states who are currently bombing them alongside the United States – Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar and the UAE. It is the ruling families of those states which are attacking ISIS in an official capacity, who are financing ISIS in a private capacity. The BBC manages to avoid any mention of Saudi funding for ISIS. The interests of the City of London are, as always, the most important factor for the British establishment.
The security state here in the UK needs the “War on Terror” to justify its continued existence and the power and jobs of those who administer it. One thing that is certain to keep the conflict going, and thus keep the security state going, is for us to start bombing the Middle East again.
The right wing old crawler Menzies Campbell just came on the BBC to support British bombing. Stand by to see the Unionist parties united in neo-imperialist brotherhood.
Bombing the Caliphate is probably just preamble for bombing Al-Assad and his forces by the back door. Israel have already shot down a Syrian Su-24 for “violating” its air space. Let the games begin!!
“They think they’re Muslims ”
They are psychopaths with acute narcissism, Ba’al. They don’t give a shit about brotherhood except those who share their opinion on who the enemy-du-jour might be.
Some people just want to burn the World.
I remember the boat lift Castro arranged in the early 80’s, He emptied his prison of all his psychopaths and sent them to Florida.
The chaos that resulted is well documented.
Why would Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fund ISIS? How else would all this benefit them, except to get US embroiled again in the Middle East, which is probably good for tourism, and make Obama look as bad as their buddy Bush.
“The prison, about five miles north of Aleppo near a vital supply route for fighters in rebel-controlled areas of Aleppo province, held 3,500 detainees and was the site of fierce battles between rebel factions and forces loyal to Assad. A yearlong siege of the prison by rebel fighters was broken late last month.”
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80436577/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815
As debate rages perhaps we should have a timely reminder of the historic Israeli ‘ Oded Yinon Plan ‘ for the Middle East . Slowly but slowly heading towards its goals .
“Why would Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fund ISIS?”
Aren’t they mutual proxies with US.dotgov Peacewisher?
They often act at our bidding.
Aren’t they rich and powerful enough now to act in their own interest, Ben? Oh yes… another reason… to test out their new warplanes. Wonder what the “being bombed” think of it all now. I still think UK police did Moazzam Begg a favour keeping him away from that lot. I hear that a 19 year old from Brighton was among the bombed.
Takfiris on the Israeli side of Golan.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/09/24/379798/takfiris-present-in-occupied-golan-video/
“Why would Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fund ISIS?”
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia doesn’t, members of the Saudi royal family do. Because Saudi royals have a lot of wives there is no shortage of them and because they are sitting on a lot of oil they have plenty of money to give away to whichever radical group takes their fancy.
OK, Fred. Thanks for responding. But why would funding a load of ruthless jihadist killers tickle their fancy, unless they are sick beyond meaasure?
Yes I know it’s Iranian and therefore inherently untrustworthy, according to SOME perceptive posters…
http://presstv.com/detail/2014/09/24/379894/israeli-deeply-involved-in-syria-crisis/
Interesting about Sotloff. The Daily Telegraph told us the James Foley video was faked.
And still people gawp at the MSM, unable to link today’s news with yesterday’s, bamboozled in their own eternal now-time
Not all people, Mike.
As we saw last week at least 45% In Scotland don’t go for the propaganda. Wish Yougov could do a poll on this (i.e. “Do you believe most of what you hear on the mainstream media?”). Simple Y/N.
Yesterday some Pentagon spokesperson kept mentioning the F-22. I feel certain we will hear how successful the boondoggle is.
They will try to resurrect the doomed project because they never saw a weapons system they didn’t like no matter the cost.
Yup..There it is….http://online.wsj.com/articles/in-syria-pentagons-f-22-fighter-plane-makes-first-combat-appearance-1411477246
Oh I know that, Peacewisher. A lot of people in Scotland have woken up. It’s a shame there are still so many asleep. Fear and just enough privilege won the day last week. Isn’t that how every empire keeps hold of territory?
The Queen purring made me wretch. I hope there are those in the 55 per cent who feel utterly ashamed of themselves.
Would a Syrian oilfield be a valid target for airstrikes?
http://rt.com/usa/190400-us-aircraft-target-oil-syria/
I really can’t understand how Syria has allowed ISIS to take over some of their oil. As a sovereign country with an army (unlike Iraq) they should be able to sort these buggers out.
Retch !
It might be time for Syria to fire off a few of the Iskander missiles Russia gave it early last year. Maybe it’s saving them for the ‘boots on the ground.’
I wonder when the F-22 will start probing Syrian air defences. Nothing like live contact to test dodgy software.
“OK, Fred. Thanks for responding. But why would funding a load of ruthless jihadist killers tickle their fancy, unless they are sick beyond meaasure?”
Like I said there are a lot of them so some of them are going to be looking at the west, the capitalism, corporatism, the gambling and pornography, usury, drug addiction, adultery and idolatry and thinking that these aren’t the values they hold dear.
” I hope there are those in the 55 per cent who feel utterly ashamed of themselves.”
No.
The more I see of the Nationalist response the more assured I am that I made the right decision.
If you are still so Goddam sure you are right and those Scots who voted No are just stupid idiots and not worthy of an opinion then I’m glad I voted the way I did.
Or was it the F-35 with dodgy software? I forget.
It’s the F22 Mike. Discussed prior to your comment.
Mike, Peacewisher:
Oh, for pity’s sake, what conceivable connection is there between not wanting Scotland to leave the UK and and failing to grasp the machinations that underlie US warmongering in the Middle East? You separatists lost the referendum. 55% is more than 45%. Argument over. Move on for goodness sake!
Move on from griping and whining on the internet to building a credible, united, UK-wide movement that you and me and all British progressives can support and vote for in 2015.
@Fred: So that means 45% + 1 in Scotland, then!
Answer a simple question to read article.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/f–fighter-nearing-boondoggle-status/article_7aba9fa3-5fa3-5b5c-b03c-36c176c65c73.html
“At an estimated cost of $412 million each, the F-22s amount to about $65 billion sitting on the tarmac. The grounding is the latest dark chapter for an aircraft plagued by problems, and whose need was called into question even before its first test flight.
The sleek, diamond-winged fighter was conceived during the Cold War in the early 1980s to thump a new generation of Soviet fighter jets in dogfights. But with the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Soviet fighters that the U.S. military planners feared never moved beyond development and were never built.
Now, while other U.S. warplanes pummel targets, the F-22 has sat silently throughout battles in Afghanistan. It has gone unused in Iraq. There has been no call for it in the conflict above Libya.
“For all that gigantic cost, you have a system you can’t even use,” said Winslow T. Wheeler, a defense budget specialist and frequent Pentagon critic at the Center for Defense Information. “It’s a fundamental explanation on how the country has gotten itself in the financial mess that it’s in today.”
Designed in Burbank, Calif., and built in Marietta, Ga., the F-22 won the final go-ahead from Congress in 1991, thanks in part to a lobbying campaign by the plane’s manufacturer, Lockheed Martin Corp. — then Lockheed Corp. — and its near 1,100 subcontractors in 44 states.
“The Cold War was over; it didn’t make any sense to go forward with the program,” said Thomas Christie, a retired official who worked 50 years at the Pentagon. “But the Air Force built up such a large constituency up on the Hill that it couldn’t be killed.”
“So that means 45% + 1 in Scotland, then!”
What on earth are you talking about?
And where does this 45% come from? It was 45% of those that voted voted Yes not 45% of the electorate. In constitutional matters I reckon those who can’t be bothered to go out and vote are voting for the status quo so that makes it more like 37%. Just over a third. Not a mandate or anywhere near.
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/ten-reasons-why-the-british-parliament-should-vote-no-to-bombing-iraq
God, who that woman thinks she is? World police uk division.
“what the govenment has said so far it just” yea yea yea. Just let us dip our toe in.
Let them of the hook? she really does see it as part of the landscape. Ie I don’t think she does see it.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHS IN OTHER PEOPLES COUNRTY.
Is this not a simple basic concept to understand. And not doing that is the main flipin problem.
It’s not that our messed up criminal gang of thugs called government can’t stand lot’s of killing, they have let it go on time and time again.
What they can’t stand is there obvious culpability in creating these conditions, conditions no amount similar action will help.
Did they not get the memo, this it what international law is for, it may not be perfect but we can see what happens when it’s totally violated.
Just when is the point going to come when they come back home? That point is just further and further, looking like never. And then what kind of country will we return to? I alreday don’t want to live here anymore. It messed up the country. For nothing. Worse than nothing. To kill people for money and contoll. Pushed a racist aganda with fear and lies that’s toxic to uk society.
Most anywhere is a more decent country than this. Really something to see the home you love totaly debased.
@Ishmael: She was just doing he job… Kay Burley was positively gleeful last night on Sky, when asking similar questions.
I thought Chris Nineham put the argument perfectly in that interview. And pleasing to hear, if it is true, that public opinion is not buying the propaganda. Would like to see some figures though…
http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=172709&cid=22&fromval=1&frid=22&seccatid=45&s1=1
“According to this logic, the only bad terrorists are the ones who only kill U.S. citizens,” he said, wondering how the Americans failed to see the terrorist threats before.
He noted that the U.S. didn’t listen to Russia when it called for uniting efforts and supporting the Syrian government and the moderate national opposition to fight terrorism.
Lavrov also pointed out that Russia has been supplying weapons to Iraq, Syria, and other countries in the Middle East and North Africa which allows them to combat terrorism effectively.
He said that Russia welcomes any effort to help the Iraqi government combat terrorism, but if any side wants to combat terrorism in another country’s territories, particularly in Syria, they must receive permission from the country’s government, noting that Syria has repeatedly voiced readiness to cooperate with any international effort to help eliminate terrorism.”