237 thoughts on “The Stolen Seas

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  • Fedup

    Bad Faith indeed.

    Were these oil fields already known and explored, or were they just a twinkle in the eyes of the commodity traders?

  • BrianFujisanWabi-sabi

    Fantastic video Craig

    i remember when you first posted about our stolen waters / oilfields..and that map…Cost me a lot of arguments… but I Had trust in you and Stuck to my guns, especially after looking into it a wee bit …

    thank you for this

  • glenn_uk

    Come on, Gutter.

    Do you actually think that if Scotland leaves this claim alone, oil will cease to burn?

    We’re screwed as far as the environment is concerned, it’s just a question of who’s going to benefit most, before the whole shithouse goes down in flames, if you’ll pardon the vernacular.

  • CanSpeccy

    Most people assume that [the England Scotland maritime boundary] goes out due East…

    Balls.

    Scotland has no international maritime boundaries because it is not a sovereign state. Moreover, if it were, only a dope would assume that the Scotland’s Eastern maritime boundary would extend due East, which would be logical only if the coast of England and Scotland were oriented North-South in a perfectly straight line.

    In fact, as CM perfectly well knows, the determination of maritime boundaries is a complex matter dependent on many factors including not only the shape of the coastline but the presence of features such as islands.

    The existing maritime boundary between England and Scotland was established by the UK government as an internal administrative matter. If Scotland becomes independent the question of the maritime boundary will have to be resolved. The present administrative boundary will likely have no influence in the determination of the international boundary.

    But any bollocks are good enough, apparently, to justify the claim of Scotch victimization.

  • BrianFujisanWabi-sabi

    Glen

    Great to see you …been a while

    Gutter

    It’s about theft..by Others For our oil

  • Gutter

    Glenn_uk:
    So now we know the environmental policy of your utopian new state: “Stuff the planet, we want to be rich.”
    The same old myopic idiocy.

  • Marjorie

    Everyone in Scotland should watch this video. The secret theft of Scottish seas was a shameful act and should be exposed to all. Thank you Craig, I do hope you will be on the team that rectifies this treacherous misdeed.

  • BrianFujisanWabi-sabi

    Glen

    Have you seen Baraka

    I had seen a wee Trailer for it before..but at Doune we had it on big screen after the festival..stunning Filming.

    too Early to post OT video..but youtube it.

  • Gutter

    Glenn_uk:
    OK then. If you’re not a nationalist please delete the word “your” and insert the word “Craig’s”.
    I’m puzzled by people who see catastrophe coming but aren’t prepared to do anything to try to avert it.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    CanSpeccy

    So you’re saying the timing of the new boundary was just a coincidence?

  • Geoff

    While I’m perfectly sure the redrawing of the map was done with the most nefarious reasons, I’m curious as to how the end result is actually unfair to Scotland.

    The 1999 line appears to follow, more or less, a path that is equidistant from the two countries. Therefore the waters that lay on the English side are closer to England than Scotland. An old line which I’m guessing was arbitrarily and lazily drawn due east from Berwick seems wholly unfair to England

    Of course this may have no relevance under relevant maritime law, I have no clue. I’m not making a legal observation, merely one of fairness

  • Ben

    Has Middle-Earth, Mother Scotland, become Pangea? Ah, yes. The New World hasn’t been discovered as yet.

  • BrianFujisanWabi-sabi

    Node

    Methinks both CanSpeccy, and Geoff might do well to actually watch the video.

    Geoff… the 1999 Boarders are the Stolen Waters

  • Kempe

    Not an international boundary as already pointed out but a designation of administrative areas, with the old boundary anyone sailing away from the coast at Berwick would soon have found themselves in an area under Scottish Law. Is that not unfair? The new boundary is positioned roughly at right angles to the coast which is fair to both nations.

  • glenn_uk

    Gutter: I fear that _yet again_, you have me confused with someone else.

    OK then. If you’re not a nationalist please delete the word “your” and insert the word “Craig’s”.

    Why am I obliged to justify anything? Any country will grab whatever resources they can, and burn it up like we have some sort of fire-sale. That’s what happens, while we’re operating under free-fall capitalism. You can hardly be criticised for heaving someone into the water, if he was – moments ago – stamping on your face while you try to board a liferaft.

    Look, I accept and share your distaste for our utterly disastrous approach to climate disaster – if that’s your point. But as a counter to arguments over nationalism, it’s a criticism which could equally be levelled at either side of this discussion, and so pretty much cancels itself out.

    *

    Brain : I think we saw that a few years ago, it’s like a snapshot of humanity as might be gathered by an objective observer. Just offered, without comment or judgement. If that’s the one, it is a fascinating perspective.

  • CanSpeccy

    CanSpeccy

    Why was there ever a 1987 Boundary then… ?

    I dunno.

    But what’s your point?

    Whatever boundary there was in 1987 and whatever purpose it served, it was not an international boundary, because Scotland was not then (and is not now) a sovereign state, moreover it had could have had zero impact on the economic well being of the people of Scotland.

  • CanSpeccy

    @Node

    CanSpeccy

    So you’re saying the timing of the new boundary was just a coincidence?

    I’m saying no such thing. I’m saying what I’m saying which is: that if as CM claims “Most people assume that [the England Scotland maritime boundary] goes out due East…” then what most people assume is bollocks for the reasons I have stated above, viz:

    only a dope would assume that Scotland’s Eastern maritime boundary would extend due East, which would be logical only if the coast of England and Scotland were oriented North-South in a perfectly straight line.

    In fact, as CM well knows, the determination of maritime boundaries is a complex matter dependent on many factors including not only the shape of the coastline but the presence of features such as islands…

  • CanSpeccy

    @Node:

    Methinks both CanSpeccy, and Geoff might do well to actually watch the video.

    Where do you think I got the CM quote that I commented on if not from the video?

  • Gutter

    Glenn_uk:
    Yes, both sides are as bad as each other. That is my point!
    Craig and his cultish happy-clappy nationalist followers are making out that separatism is a gateway to utopia. But as you rightly point out, the obstacle which stands in the way of sensible action on climate change, and many other lesser problems that we face, isn’t rule from Westminster, it is the forces of global capitalism.
    Carving up our little island and putting artificial nationalistic barriers between its people will make it harder, not easier, for us to resist those forces.
    Your logic says “if we don’t ruin the planet for our grandchildren then those other guys will, so let’s get in there first and have a party”.
    The validity of that logic is a big, big problem, and dividing the world’s people into more and more, smaller and smaller, less and less potent competing nations makes the problem worse, not better.

  • Jives

    And here we have the Canspeccy and Kempe troll tag-team.

    Well…at least Canspeccy’s forgotten his normal Aryan Master race nonsense for a bit.

    Mercy!

    LOL.

    So predictable,so Establishment droids.

    Great post Craig,thank you.

  • Jives

    Oh Canspeccy,

    Do please remind us all again-lest we forget-how we’re awash with a (gasp!)TIDAL wave of immigrants stealing our ancient Druidic Anglo-Saxon purity…

    Please…i can hardly wait..

    Lolss.

  • CanSpeccy

    @ Jives

    Your absurdly irrelevant comments merely confirms that the usual first line of defense against any truth inimical to the liberal left, the politically correct, or apparently, Scotch nationalists, is a barrage of lying hate speech.

    CM’s video is nothing more than a pathetic piece of fraudulent victimology, another standard weapon of the liberal left: the Hell with facts, just claim victim status.

    In fact, CM’s video is a disgrace for someone who is a genuine expert on maritime boundaries.

    If Scotland becomes an independent state it and the Disunited Kingdom will have to establish their mutual maritime boundaries. What’s to get excited over that? It will be one of the minor issues among the many important questions that should have been resolved in advance of a referendum on independence, but have not been due to the fecklessness of all concerned.

  • guano

    All politicians are troughing pigs and by the nature of it they have to consume a little poo with their food. The Islamic leaders of the world in spite of having the most authoritative guide direct from God have immersed themselves in the filth of politics with relish.

    How then are we going to expect better from independent Scottish politicians As a youngster I was supervising on probation once said to me, ” I don’t know why you’re so cheerful when you know that if all the money was distributed equally on Monday , by Friday it would be back in the hands of the original keepers.

    Pathetic though Bilderberg Brown and Alice in Wonder Darling may be as figleaves for the ogre of international Zionist banking, the day after a Yes vote the new keepers of Scotland will be consumed by greed and politics.

    Look at the chaos of war in the last 20 years under the custodianship of Political Islam. There is not a corner of the Islamic world that has not been exchanged for the glory of their so-called leaders. If you can buy Islam, you can surely buy anything and anybody.

    The only victory on the 18th will be for politicos over the people. Fuck ’em.

  • guano

    CanSpeccy

    Like Charles Crawford’s lies, your hatred of all things foreign needs challenging. Why not Fuck off back to your own little apartheid ether land? Craig Murray’s blog is inhabited by human beings. Yes even Huckleberry and Al Morrison, stupidum and stupidee, are included as human beings.

  • Mary

    Is this fair or just? Not only the seas, the land and the foreshore too.

    ‘Crown land in Scotland

    It was not until 1830 that King William IV revoked the income from the crown estates in Scotland. The hereditary land revenues of the Crown in Scotland, formerly under the management of the Barons of the Exchequer, were transferred to the Commissioners of Woods, Forests, Land Revenues, Works and Buildings and their successors under the Crown Lands (Scotland) Acts of 1832, 1833 and 1835. These holdings mainly comprised former ecclesiastical land (following the abolition of the episcopacy in 1689) in Caithness and Orkney, and ancient royal possession in Stirling and Edinburgh, and feudal dues. There was virtually no urban property. Most of the present Scottish estate excepting foreshore and salmon fishing is due to inward investment, including Glenlivet Estate, the largest area of land managed by the Crown Estate in Scotland, purchased in 1937,[Applegirth, Fochabers and Whitehill estates, purchased in 1963, 1937 and 1969 respectively.

    After winning the 2011 Scottish election, the Scottish National Party (SNP) called for the devolution of the Crown Estate income to Scotland.[In response to this demand, the Scotland Office decided against dividing up the Crown Estates. However, plans have been developed to allocate some of the Crown Estate income to the Big Lottery Fund, which would then distribute funds to coastal communities. These plans have also been criticised by the SNP.’
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Estate

    ‘”There is no organisation in the world quite like the Crown Estate.” Not our words: they come from its website. Parts of the estate survive as the rump of the landmass seized by William the Conqueror, who claimed that everything in England belonged to him (a concept extended by later monarchs to the rest of the British Isles).

    Purely in terms of geographical extent, it is a very large rump indeed: over 23 million acres. Most of it lies below the sea: the estate owns all of the seabed within territorial waters and 55 per cent of the foreshore (land that is covered at high tide). This peculiarity arises because it is the one part of the regal domain that was never given away, sold or otherwise made off with. What was the point? You couldn’t farm under water.

    Like some of the country’s other great landed estates, such as the Duke of Westminster’s, the Crown Estate has benefited from the principle that every kind of land is likely to have a value if you hang on to it for long enough. The Normans did not foresee pipelines, gas storage facilities or the London Array of wind turbines.

    Related Articles
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    Cost of keeping monarchy falls

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/8624244/The-Crown-Estate-good-news-for-the-Queen.html

    No wonder the old biddy’s worried and all the hangers on too. It is a feudal state.

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