The Trident Test 310


The Rochester By-Election further destroys the intellectual case for the BBC’s decision that only male party leaders who support Trident can debate on TV before the UK general election.

The Greens got five times as many votes as the Lib Dems in Rochester, and are ahead of them in several recent national opinion polls. I do not posit the support of Trident as the criterion for inclusion, in any sense as a joke. Support of Trident stands as a good marker for adhesion to the neo-con establishment consensus. The establishment is simply not prepared for more radical views to be put before the public as a serious choice. UKIP is the chosen right wing vehicle into which disillusion with politicians should be channelled.

The BBC justification for including UKIP is that they have shown a “substantial increase in electoral support”, and the BBC argue that the Greens have not done so. There are two major problems with this argument.

The first is that UKIP’s “massive increase in electoral support” has been massively boosted by a huge amount of publicity given to UKIP for the last two years, especially by the BBC. The BBC is citing the effect of its own propaganda as justification for continuing that propaganda. If the Greens had been given as much publicity as UKIP, the electoral climate would be very different.

The second is that this appears to be a one way argument. If UKIP’s massive increase in electoral support can get them included, surely the Lib Dems total collapse in electoral support should get them excluded? The injustice of including the Lib Dems and not the Greens, when the Greens are beating them not just in opinion polls but in real polls, cannot simply be brushed aside.

We then have the SNP. There is a very real possibility that the SNP will have more MPs than the Lib Dems after the next election. Indeed, one recent opinion poll put them ahead of the Lib Dems in polling across the entire UK, even though all those SNP voters were just in Scotland. For the BBC to push so hard the line that we are “Better Together”, and then exclude the party supported by the plurality of Scots from UK debate, is an irony only the BBC cannot see. That some viewers of a UK debate would have no opportunity to vote SNP, would not remove their very real interest in understanding and questioning the views of what will be a major component of the parliament which governs them.

The Greens, Plaid Cymru and the SNP have female leaders and are anti-Trident, a symbol of their broad radicalism. All are, to use that crude measure, to the left of the parties which will be included. To be in, you have to be led by an identikit posh male and support Trident. That is the BBC test.


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310 thoughts on “The Trident Test

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  • Republicofscotland

    “Sure he does. Same address as Republicofscotland.”
    __________________________________________________

    For goodness sake at least have the decency to make your first comment, a comment on topic, some people.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Craig

    I always enjoy your posts; when I am unhappy with your propos, I console myself by admiring the skill (not to say cunning) with which you put them together. But, then, I’ve always had great respect for the drafting skills leaarnt in the Office.

    With this post, my attention is drawn to your:

    ” only male party leaders who support Trident can debate on TV” (at the beginning)

    and

    “To be in, you have to be led by an identikit posh male and support Trident.”.

    You do not, I’m sure, believe that a politician has to be female in order to get BBC airtime. Indeed, you yourself point to a more reasonable and rational reason when you say

    “All are, to use that crude measure, to the left of the parties which will be included.”.

    Are you canvassing the female vote by any chance?

  • Ben-9260th dojo katana

    “but what would be your odds on WWIII if there was no nuclear arms?”

    Impossible to calculate an alternate universe. However, the proliferation (Pakistan-India et al) indicates the jury is not in yet.

  • Robert Crawford

    Uzbek.

    I live in Scotland. The U.K. is no longer “united”, except by Law.
    In case you have not noticed, the English want what is ours and will do anything to keep it. They also want what every other country has, “inperpetuity”.

    The Referendum result, true or false?

    We will get rid of English Rule next time, if England has not blown the world to the shit house before then.

    Antagonise and demonise others at your peril. What goes around comes around, sooner or later.

    Unfortuntely the mindset of the Ruling Class think as if they are indistructable and can beat every other country, dangerous!

    “Why Scottish Independence could save the world” on You Tube. Have a look and listen to the messages. Maybe you will find something to think about.

    In the mean time, English toys for English people. Keep your gratitude for your new home and consider what other nationals want, not what their colonial masters want.

    Have a nice life where ever you are, it is later than you think.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    “For goodness sake at least have the decency to make your first comment, a comment on topic, some people.”
    _________________

    That, dear RepublicofRobert, is sheer chutzpah (if I may say so).

    Various recent threads featuring your “contribution” refer. 🙂

  • Republicofscotland

    MPs ordered their expenses to be shredded after just three years to prevent any “smoking guns” from coming to light, a whistleblower has claimed.

    Paul Gibbons, a records management consultant, has revealed he helped draw up a controversial records policy that ordered all expenses paperwork to be destroyed after just three years.
    Mr Gibbons said the normal practice would be to keep the records for six years, but the House of Commons Commission “went out of their way” to reduce this.

    All records and paperwork relating to MPs’ claims under the scandal-hit system have been destroyed, the Daily Telegraph revealed earlier this month.

    Members of the public who have written to the Parliamentary Standards Commission to request investigations into MPs accused of fiddling their claims have been told there can be no probes, because all the records have been destroyed.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/11244483/MPs-expenses-were-shredded-to-destroy-smoking-gun-claims-whistleblower.html
    __________________________________________

    Westminster really is, the original den of iniquity.

  • Ben-9260th dojo katana

    “Drawing the line at Trident rather than NATO membership is a party political compromise.”

    Good catch Phil. But add EU to the mix and the result is capitulation.

  • Uzbek in the UK

    Robert Crawford

    I respect your opinion and views but as for now UK is “united” by Law and trident is housed in the part of the UK. If you win next referendum I am sure some heads in Westminster will have few sleepless years to sort out trident and many other issues deriving from the split.

  • craig Post author

    Vronsky,

    Many apologies for the delay in reply. To be honest, I have been asked to speak at events in Perth and Dundee the same day, and am trying to work out whether it is possible to somehow do them all by being driven around at illegal speeds. They are not all at same time.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    RepublicOfSlaveringRage

    “I for one don’t want any public official swearing an oath to Droopy Chops or any of her inbred brood.”
    _______________

    Point if view read.

    But why should I, we, or the wider reading public care what you want or don’t want?

    BTW, I’ve already asked you several times whether you consider yourself an oil-painting (with or without droopy chops). Do you? 🙂

  • Uzbek in the UK

    “However, the proliferation (Pakistan-India et al) indicates the jury is not in yet.”

    You are particularly contradicting your point. Both countries and also few other that defacto have nuclear arms do so mainly in order of defence and not offence. As it happened in the last 20 years (with demise of UN) nuclear arms to some is the only definite security guarantee. Unfortunately so most of these countries are run by autocracies but based on USSR/Russia case study this should not tip them over the balance point (to start offensive nuclear war).

  • Republicofscotland

    Confronted with a leaked City Hall paper revealing his plans for swingeing cuts to spending on education and youth groups, the reaction of Boris Johnson to Assembly member Andrew Dismore is nothing short of extraordinary.

    Boris Johnson’s mask slips and the real psychopath shows himself, and some fools would like to see this man PM.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DPKhT6St-Q

  • craigmurray.org.uk

    There is NO technical indication that Republicofscotland and Robert Crawford are the same commenter. Each has commented from separate but unchanging IP addresses and e-mail addresses that appear genuine.

    Habbabkuk, where is your evidence for this assertion?

  • Uzbek in the UK

    “you’ve lost me there.”

    Guess what? I am not too bothered with it. When one has no arguments to support his/her point, one gets lost.

  • Ben-9260th dojo katana

    “When one has no arguments to support his/her point, one gets lost.”

    I certainly see that point…

  • Republicofscotland

    Scotland’s first pro-independence daily newspaper is to be launched.

    The National will be produced by Newsquest, the company behind The Herald and Sunday Herald newspapers.

    BBC Scotland understands the new 32-page title will cost 50p, have an initial print run of about 50,000, and be edited by Richard Walker, the current editor of the Sunday Herald.

    Newsquest would not confirm details about the paper or speculation that it would launch on Monday.

    The Sunday Herald was the only Scottish title to support independence in the run up to September’s referendum.
    ________________________________

    The National will be aimed at pro-indy and national minded readers, it about bloody time.

    Newsquest is owned by American giant Gannet who own the Herald and Evening Times, among many other titles, we’ll have to wait and see if the National lives up to expectations.

    Newsquest in the UK

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_published_by_Newsquest

  • Mary

    There were only about a dozen Con Dems on the green benches to see Reckless sign in. Anne Milton from the office of the Chief Whip Gove looked unamused.

    Reckless Sworn In After UKIP By-Election Win
    Mark Reckless becomes UKIP’s second MP and Nigel Farage says more defections are likely – but the PM vows to win back Rochester.
    Friday 21 November 2014

    ‘David Cameron has vowed to win back Rochester and Strood for the Conservatives in the General Election – as Nigel Farage predicted more MPs are considering defecting to UKIP.’

    Livid.

  • Republicofscotland

    There is NO technical indication that Republicofscotland and Robert Crawford are the same commenter. Each has commented from separate but unchanging IP addresses and e-mail addresses that appear genuine.

    Habbabkuk, where is your evidence for this assertion?
    _______________________________________

    CraigMurray.Org.UK

    Not that I mind you scouring my IP address or even confirming that I’m not Robert Crawford, it is though rather disconcerting, that you are considering Habbabkuk’s proposal that I have an alias in Robert Crawford.

    If Habbabkuk is asinine enough to believe his preposterous theories, and their have been many, then isn’t that his own undoing?

  • Clark

    Robert Crawford, 4:19 pm, please, write “Westminster rule” or something rather than “English”. Us English can’t control the damn government either.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    “There is NO technical indication that Republicofscotland and Robert Crawford are the same commenter. Each has commented from separate but unchanging IP addresses and e-mail addresses that appear genuine.

    Habbabkuk, where is your evidence for this assertion?”
    _____________________

    Two answers, one facetious and one slightly more serious.

    FACETIOUS.

    The same evidence as that held by Macky, Node et al for their various accusations – cf the most recent posts on the previous thread.

    PS – care to refute their comments with some technical indications?

    SLIGHTLY MORE SERIOUS.

    Timings (both sequential and alternating), identity of purpose, themes.

    Re your “technical indications”, did I not read on this blog – several times and from people who probably know what they’re talking about – that it’s very easy for someone who’s internet savvy to post, undetected, under different identities?

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    But I’m sorry if voicing my opinion has upset you. It’s almost as upsetting as you not seeming to worry about people (eg Mary) constantly calling me a “troll”.

  • Robert Crawford

    Clark.(us English can’t contorl the government).

    Wesminster, is not people. The English ARE Westminster.

    What or why do you vote for? Do you complain to them, or complain on here?

    You have reinforced a point I have been making for years. We don’t vote for them, and they are doing more harm to 11 times more people than they are doing to us “SCOTCH” as speccy on here calls us Scots. They are harming their own.

    Now read what Nicola Sturgeon said to-day.

    The Scottish Government (SNP) are actively trying to help the people of Scotland, not hinder them!

    Clark, come on up to Scotland pal, you would be valued here.
    r

  • Clark

    Robert Crawford, first, Canspeccy lives in Canada, and he enjoys winding people up with his racism. Second, I’m already in Scotland, where I’ve been helping Craig with his contribution to the independence campaign – I may well end up doing the fast driving to get to Vronsky’s event – and you’re right, I am valued here! Third, yes, I complain and campaign, and attend protests. I write to my MP, my MEP, and to government departments, and I was one of the campaigners for the Fairer Votes campaign.

    My reason for my request is that one of the common propaganda smears against the Scottish independence campaign is to call it anti-English, ie. racist. I was in George Square on the Wednesday before the vote, and the only racists I encountered there were with the No camp.

  • Robert Crawford

    Clark.

    I am glad you are here, “whae’s like us”, damned few, and they are all dead.

    The point you make about not calling the English——anything,, is the same as British, when they are caught being bad, and English, when it is something they wish to take credit for by calling themselves English. To suit English propaganda.

    So, I’ll stick to calling a “spade a spade” if you don’t mind (metaphorically speaking of course).

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