What About The English? 124


The Labour Party supports austerity in England but opposes it in Scotland. If Labour were to win the general election, and also find themselves in power in Scotland’s 2016 parliamentary elections, there would be “new and higher” benefits in Scotland, whereas sanctions and cuts would continue to oppress the ordinary people of England. Indeed, they have repeatedly promised to be tougher on benefits than the Tories – in England.

Now let us for a moment suspend all our critical faculties, and believe that Gordon Brown is sincere about the higher benefits in Scotland. Let us also ignore the fact that to be practical, that would require devolution of a vastly greater proportion of the tax base than anything Labour or the Smith Commission are suggesting. Let us, just for now, believe it is a sincere and practical offer. It is possible to understand why it could attract some people – the union without the cuts and austerity.

But why one earth would any left wing person in England want to vote for a party which, if in power in both England and Scotland, would pay higher benefits to Scots than to English? Why would the English vote for a continued retrenchment of the welfare state there but not in Scotland. Indeed, is there not liable to be some resentment in England at this rather strange proposition? When you add to this Labour’s absolute insistence that while English MPs may not vote on Scottish affairs, Scottish MP’s must be allowed to vote on English affairs, it seems to me you would have to be nuts to vote for Labour in England at present.

The BBC’s latest promotion of super-Brown and his new promises has caused much hilarity in Scotland. I cannot improve on this incisive comment I lifted from the Guardian, by MurphyUKOK:

What is it with the Labour Party and these 2 in particular? The sequencing of their ‘pledges’ on Home Rule so far had been
1) totally opposed to home rule – it is either yes or no
2) eh no actually, we are shitting ourselves, it looks like we might lose- we ‘vow’ home rule
3) we didn’t vow home rule
4) the smith commission has finalised its position- we have delivered home rule
5) eh no … that actually isn’t home rule but if you vote for us again we will give you home rule
A party of lying fucking idiots!!!

But I think the Greens, the Tories and UKIP in England must be those most amused and delighted by Labour’s latest incredible convolution. All of which reinforces my frequently repeated assertion that Labour are going to be nowhere near government after the general election, unless in coalition with the Tories.

Independence is so close now we can almost touch it.


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124 thoughts on “What About The English?

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  • Ba'al Zevul

    But why one earth would any left wing person in England want to vote for a party which, if in power in both England and Scotland, would pay higher benefits to Scots than to English?

    There’s no contradiction if, as I understand it, Holyrood is to be given the powers without actually being given the money. That is, if Holyrood wishes to cut taxes or increase benefits, it will be within the limits of what it can raise from economies elsewhere. The sacred programme of austerity, so necessary for featherbedding failed bankers, continues.

  • Robert Crawford

    Craig, Independence is so close now we can almost touch it.

    I hope you are right.

    England goes down the tube without Scotland, we are England’s security.
    England would be like a turtle without it’s shell.

    Oh, I so hope you are right.

    I am bow legged carrying them on my back.

    FREEDOM, EQUALITY and PROSPERITY and no more KILLING!!!.

    Hurray up and bring it on.

    I can’t wait!.

  • Robert Crawford

    Craig.

    The gullible are going to be fooled again, by Gordon Brown and New Labour.

    Hell mend them!

  • Ba'al Zevul

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/sketch-murphy-basks-in-adulation-of-party-faithful.114631257

    If ‘branch office’ is a tag to be jettisoned at all costs, Blairite appears to be one Mr Murphy is more than comfortable with.

    I would hope he never appears in public without it. Unexpectedly honest of him, associating himself with someone who sold his own country down the river while making it bankrupt, and is even now stirring the shit in the Labour Party.

  • Clark

    From Craig’s post:

    Labour’s absolute insistence that while English MPs may not vote on Scottish affairs, Scottish MP’s must be allowed to vote on English affairs…

    It’s Labour who are appealing the the Scottish Supremacists, not the Scottish Independence campaign.

  • tristan

    Because for some bizarre reason, austerity is the political consensus in England, despite having no basis in economics. I guess in Scotland this is different, so they know they cannot say that there.

    Of course, this makes them look like idiots…

    The Tories have nothing to lose in Scotland, why bother? And of course they’ll never say ‘higher benefits’, that would upset the Mail and their donors (of course, they support higher benefits, just to employers, bosses, bankers and other capitalists).

  • Abe Rene

    I will vote for Labour if they commit themselves to building 1 million Y-cubes. Banning the sale of council houses in England would be icing on the cake, and compulsory repurchase from those who have more than one home (apart from people like MPs) would be a cherry on top. 🙂

  • Par for the course

    Beware, the millipede being groomed for a NWO position at 300k pa in Kissingers Charity, has been recalled in case the the brother stutters. And the mancunian meat-pie eating brothers are still completely unaware.

  • Uzbek in the UK

    Off topic but still somewhat relevant

    Talking about Snowden and all that sh..t

    In Russia mother of 7 has been arrested http://www.ibtimes.com/svetlana-davydova-arrest-husband-russian-spy-called-questioning-1803680 and here http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-mom-faces-treason-charges-for-call-to-ukrainian-embassy/515104.html for State Treason for calling Ukrainian Embassy and telling that Russian military personnel from nearby military base was ordered to join Ukrainian separatists. Now if Putin is right and Russian military is not involved in Ukrainian conflict then why Davydova is incriminated State Treason charges?

    It looks like Eddie has chosen wrong country to claim asylum in.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    I’d vote for Lindsey German….

    MPs would be paid the average national wage, and be expected to work full time at their job. They would also serve in annually elected parliaments, and not the travesty of democracy which are the fixed 5 year terms. Politicians would be elected on a proportional vote. All subsidies on their food and drink would be abolished, and lobbying by vested interests would be illegal.

    I would expect that within the term of one parliament MPs would reflect the demographic they represent, with 93 per cent from state educated backgrounds, 50 per cent women and a tenth from ethnic minorities.

    That would take care of that.

  • Uzbek in the UK

    Ba’al Zevul

    Sounds like desperate appeal to the most lefties of us (or almost to MWL). It sounded good on the paper in 1917 too but turned into disaster with many millions of death in one large but very lazy nation (before you blame me for being bigot do not forget that I was/am part of that lazy soviet nation).

  • Tony M

    You’ve obviously not seen the video from Ukraine Uzbek Zionist in UK, where a ‘Ukranian’ military figure tells a cameramen to get his camera out his face in perfect public-school accented English. It is undeniable that special forces from the US, UK, Israel and others, mercenary murderers for hire scum from all places are killing civilians in the east of Ukraine for ‘sport’. Sickos recruited in this country with tacit support of government and establishment figures including members of the House of ‘Lords’. Anyone entering this country on suspicion of having fought abroad or in foreign military forces, regular or irregular, the IDF, Ukranian forces or Syrian ‘rebels’ should be investigated for possible war crimes and crimes against humanity. Those recruiting and hiring them too have not clean hands and should be put out of the killing. or any other business, for life.

    Blog here has gone to pot shills and trolls and socks running amok and useful idiots sucking up to them. In this hollowed out economy, all we have are financial crime and armaments, neither of which have any future. The London house of cards is swaying in the gentlest little breeze, a great storm is coming.

    Some reading:

    https://medium.com/@NafeezAhmed/why-google-made-the-nsa-2a80584c9c1

    https://consortiumnews.com/2014/11/23/filling-the-blanks-in-snowdens-citizenfour-tale/

    There is an interview with Snowden and Bruce Schneier on his blog http://www.schneier.com/blog/ Haven’t watched it, it’s hosted on the well-blocked google/youtube (boo-hiss), understand the sound is poor, no transcript (yet) made available.

    BBC staff in Scotland now thought to be utterly revolting. Deep suspicions being openly voiced about the far from transparent tallying of independence referendum ballots behind the scenes at counts. Spineless bent Electoral Commission prevaricating over open criminality.

  • Uzbek in the UK

    I still believe that Kant was right when he called to respect and defend personal freedoms. Each of us knows the best what is good for each of us. And then as a community we ought to make a collectively better decision which collectively benefits us.

    But when one is singled out and claims he/she knows what is best for ALL or even MOST of us then one thing is certain. This one is lying bustard or even ignorant lying bustard.

  • Uzbek in the UK

    Tony M

    Personal insults (and being called Zionist is insulting to me) do not make you honourable man/woman. For this reason I would not even read your comment.

  • John Robertson

    The bottom line is that the Scottish Labour party (or, more accurately, the representatives of the UK Labour party in Scotland) is simply incompatible with the UK Labour party. They are desperately trying to avoid the obvious answer to this problem – an independent Scottish Labour Party (ideally in an independent Scotland!).

    The inconvenient facts surrounding the EVEL stuff are ignored by the blustering London media and politicians. Scots MP’s do NOT make decisions on Scottish devolved matters – it’s MSPs who do that! If the establishment goes ahead with EVEL then I assume Scots MPs will also get salary and benefit cuts befitting their reduced workload? The entire EVEL idea can only result in a UK break up – the establishment either want this or are completely blind!

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Sounds like desperate appeal to the most lefties of us

    At least it acknowledges some of what’s wrong, Uzbek. You make a fair point, but I don’t want to see us plumbing the ultimate depths of corporate-Marxism (everyone reduced to poor slaves of the machine, criticism forbidden) while running away from Marxist-Leninist-Stalinism (everyone reduced to poor slaves of the machine, criticism forbidden) The desirable ground isn’t even in between the two.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    The bottom line is that the Scottish Labour party (or, more accurately, the representatives of the UK Labour party in Scotland) is simply incompatible with the UK Labour party. They are desperately trying to avoid the obvious answer to this problem – an independent Scottish Labour Party (ideally in an independent Scotland!).

    Very true. I look forward to Blair’s assistance to Labour in the coming months. That should polarise Scottish Labour adequately. 😉

  • Uzbek in the UK

    Ba’al Zevul

    Identifying what is wrong is the easiest part. Offering sensible (in reality) alternatives is what is problematic and history shows that the most lucrative (on the paper) alternatives turned into horrible realities (communism, Stalinism, Nazism, fascism, Maoism, etc.).

  • Uzbek in the UK

    I might be wrong but (I think) Labour party of 1945 came up with the best workable manifesto which they turned into practise (most of it at least). Where do we get such politicians these days?

  • Uzbek in the UK

    Irony about Eddie Snowden is that he (who famously stood against state conspiracy) is nowadays living in the state run by KGB from toe to top. Not only Vlad the Great but most of the Senators and regional governors in present days Russia as well as Russia’s richest people and Head of Russian Church are ALL KGB officers.

    It really is great irony. It would be the same as if Trotsky lived in Germany before his assassination.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Offering sensible (in reality) alternatives is what is problematic.. There again, fair point, and indeed a rather obvious one. However, accepting the status quo is equally problematic, and democracy does not seem to be achieving the greatest good for the greatest number as things stand. So I’m fairly content to vote for someone who sees things my way, or somewhere near it, and I’ve said for years that the troughers need to be ejected from our representative assmbly in order for democracy to have a chance. All I’m saying.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    I think you’re right about 1945 Labour, Uzbek. A fortunate conjunction of principles, massive public support and – advocates of austerity today will note – a colossal war debt.

    Labour’s a very different animal now. Most of its politicians are completely disconnected from the real world, and it’s lost any sense that market forces might not be the best determinant of national policy.

  • Republicofscotland

    The only way Scotland can protect itself against either Tory or Labour cuts, is to get as many MP’s as possible into the House of Commons, at the expense of Labour mostly.

    The Ashcroft poll shows that the SNP are still on course to grab at least 44 seats, more if people wake up and realise Brown and Murphy are lying b*stards.

    Ed Balls seemed to rule out a possible coalition with the SNP, but importantly he didn’t actually say no to it, it all just talk until they officially say no, which in my opinion they won’t.

    I do worry however that Nicola Sturgeon is backing herself into a corner, by asking for certain demands of Labour (if a coalition is gained)which will leave her, open to counter demands.

    Speaking of Nicola Sturgeon, she’s speaking at Glasgow Uni tonight in Bute Hall, its an 800, folk sell out, door open 17.15pm speakers begin 18.00pm.

    https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon

    I doubt the traitors Gordon Brown or Jim Murphy, could muster 800 folk, it would take them a week to hand pick them in advance.

  • Tony M

    Apparently this fly-man Murphy, (‘Prince’ William’s ageing body double) is amending the non-existant constitution of the non-existant Scottish Labour (Impersonators) Party. Apparently scrawled on yellowing lined jotter-paper, with curly corners and grubby edges and written in blue-blood in Pirate-Script-Serif as used in the Grr-eat Vow, it is said to have been kept safe out of sight up somewhere dark on Gordon Brown’s person for posterity until drawn out for the occasion. It’s no wonder he walked with a prounounced limp. No trace has yet been found of Tony Blair’s crack-pipe, but the search goes on. Jim Murphy the right horrible member for Henry-Jacksonville is thought never to have willingly eaten dog-food.

    A new financial instrument, the Secured Capital Access Management Bond (SCAMB) was launched by the City of That London and insiders argue it could grow the economy by as much as an imperial foot. Overseen by the FSO who’re responsible to the FSA – a branch of the SIB, under the watchful eye of the PFI, the nose of the SRO and subject to the teeth of the GUMS commitee – and under the thumb of that bastion of inscrutability, the bat-ridden trougher of all Parliaments: Westminster (a Hammer production). The policeman outside number 10 is going to keep a watch on things too, ably assisted by other SOBs and overseen by the SECS Committee. It’s as safe as Cameron’s second best bunker they say. Hurrah!

  • CanSpeccy

    All of which reinforces my frequently repeated assertion that Labour are going to be nowhere near government after the general election, unless in coalition with the Tories.

    So, vote Labor and get Cameroon and the New World Ordure, or vote UKIP and get enough UKIP members elected to ensure a referendum in 2015 on British independence from the EU plus free trade with the entire world.

    After that, vote for whoever offers independence from NATO and a genuine Federal system of government for the UK, which will allow the Scots to tax one another as much as they like to pay for as much welfare as they like.

  • Phil

    Uzbek

    What do you actually know of marx? Saying you come from the ussr is no qualification. You might as well say my nan simply must understand capitalism. She didn’t.

    Sure judge lenin, stalin, trotsky for the failed nightmare that was the ussr. However, marx was a political philosospher not a country. Just because some fuckers cite him as an influence does not mean he should be used as shorthand for really, really bad. Often by people who have never read him and know sod all about him. I suspect he is the ultimate baddie exactly because his analysis of capital was pretty spot on.

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