Same as the Old Boss – Alexis Tsipras 178


Meet the New Boss. Same as the Old Boss. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Alexis Tsipras, and we do get fooled again. If you will forgive me I should like to crow a little about the accuracy of my predictions on Greece in the last week or so. Now comes the bit where they stay in the Euro there is another fudge, the bankers get hold of more cash and more state assets, and nothing much changes.

We have to find what enjoyment we can in life, and I was writing yesterday about stuffing a duck. I give you another evocative little snippet from Sikunder Burnes which I rather enjoyed writing.

The next morning Burnes slept in late, hungover. Argoud woke up, and passed Percival Lord, who was sitting in the hall performing taxidermy on a duck. Argoud, still not sober, then crashed into Burnes’ room:

“That officer was not yet dressed, on which M. Argoud called out: “Why sare, the battle of Wagram was fought before this hour, and you are still in deshabille? Will you take wine with me?” “No,” said Captain Burnes, “I never take wine before breakfast.” “Then sare,” said Argoud, “You insult me and I demand satisfaction.” He ran out and soon reappeared with his small sword and asked Burnes to send for his rapier.”


178 thoughts on “Same as the Old Boss – Alexis Tsipras

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  • bevin

    Tsipras is being very consistent. He knows that the troika wants to break Syriza and change the government of Greece and that this is its object in negotiations.
    He knows that this means that nothing Greece offers will be accepted, so long as he is doing the offering: a military dictator would be given anything it asked for, but not a democratic socialist party.
    At any rate it costs Syriza nothing to offer the euro debt collecting thugs everything because they know that it will be turned down.
    Tsipras is counting on that. He has been all along, not because he is afraid but because he wants the Greek people united behind ‘going it alone’: the referendum was part of that, bending over backwards and appearing to humiliate himself (for the country’s good, the right will have to acknowledge) was the obvious follow up.
    Greek will be forced out of the euro, giving it enormous moral leverage and a very good in law against the troika, and will then do what it must do.
    This may involve BRICS, we shall see.
    What is clear is that the former mayor of Luxemburg and his team of ‘social-democratic’ sell outs and market fundamentalists on economic jihad couldn’t negotiate their way out of a paper bag, without bayonets. Now the banks are about to find themselves holding billions in the Greek paper which they have fought hard to render worthless.
    Greece will have to default, the IMF insists on it. So does the German government. Neither will take Yes for an answer.
    That is why Syriza has been saying Yes since the referendum said NO. It can afford the luxury of having it both ways.
    Before you put on The Who, Craig, make sure that the fat lady has cleared her throat, if not sung. The game is just beginning. By the time it ends Luxemburg will be lucky if the old EEC or even Benelux still exists and the euro will be the Deutsche Mark once again.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    So what IS your problem with Nicola Sturgeon appearing on US TV and in the Royal box at Wimbledon?

  • fred

    “So what IS your problem with Nicola Sturgeon appearing on US TV and in the Royal box at Wimbledon?”

    Where did I say I had a problem?

    That’s what people voted for, that’s what they got, what’s the problem?

  • Hieroglyph

    It appears that EU ‘hawks’ are still to be persuaded. So, almost total capitulation isn’t enough, even after a referendum. There is no negotiation taking place, there never has been, instead there is dirty geopolitics, and Greece simply can’t win. Yes, No, Perhaps – it really doesn’t matter. Any leftish Government is in a lose lose situation, and I agree with Bevin that a nice, clean-cut General would get a better deal by far; he is, after all, one of ‘them’, part of the group, a like-minded soul. This makes me consider my pro-EU stance, for sure. Who is running the show here? Is it the EU bean-counters, or the hedge funds? Hard to say, for sure.

    Makes me wonder what will take place, if the UK has a referendum? A run on the pound? Some mysterious files on the PM (of which I’m sure there are many)? Interesting times.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    “Where did I say I had a problem?”

    Well, Fred, your language – “swan around,” for example – makes it sound like you have a problem. If you don’t, then why did you bring the subject up? Nobody who voted SNP has a problem with her appearing on US TV – just the opposite.

    Remember, Fred, she’s representing YOU too. Goodnight.

  • fred

    “Well, Fred, your language – “swan around,” for example – makes it sound like you have a problem. If you don’t, then why did you bring the subject up? Nobody who voted SNP has a problem with her appearing on US TV – just the opposite. ”

    Well that’s all right then, so long as the people who voted SNP knew what they were voting for and got what they wanted everybody’s happy aren’t they.

  • Daniel

    The implications for the people of Greece, in which Syriza is caught between a rock and a hard place whatever the outcome of the “negotiations”, is grim. We seem to be at a point at which all that appears as solid is about to melt into air. For if Greece defaults on paying its creditors, what would prevent the individual nations within the EU who are indebted to THEIR creditors defaulting too? If all nations in the EU are indebted to each other where do the origins of debt stem from? The crisis in Greece will consequently expose the house of cards that the basis of international finance that props up the country is predicated on.

    If the bailouts continue, the Greek economy will be structurally adjusted by the Troika to the extent that the country will effectively be asset stripped. On the other hand, if the country defaults, it will be forced out of the euro and the BRICS will likely come to their aid. I think the latter is the preferable and most moral course of action but that’s not what the bankers’ to whom the political elites like Tsipras are beholden to.

  • bevin

    “…what the bankers’ to whom the political elites like Tsipras are beholden to.”

    Is there any actual evidence that Tsipras is beholden to bankers? The entire discussion around his ‘betrayal’ is based upon pessimistic readings of reports in media which really are “beholden to bankers”.
    The TINA heresy has become so deeply embedded that even those who see themselves as on the left refuse to believe the evidence of their own eyes-the holding of the Referendum- so determined are they that it is impossible to defeat imperialism.
    In the meantime the Empire is visibly disintegrating. Greece is part of this disintegration and the irrational cruelties of the Troika an example of the suicidal policies that an imperial system, blind to its own vulnerabilities, pursues. Any sensibly run system would never have left the fate of Greece-for millenia a strategic choking point- in the hands of greedy clowns like Lagarde and the other ambitious nonentities who are playing into Syriza’s hands.

  • Daniel

    Bevin @ 3.00

    “Is there any actual evidence that Tsipras is beholden to bankers?”

    Irrespective of either a Yes or No referendum vote, the Greek people are to be shafted. It seems to me to be inconceivable that this also applies to the political elite within Greece.

    The question that has to be asked is why would the Greek elite be immune to the kind of ‘revolving door’ mentality in which parliamentarians’ retiring from political office enter the board rooms of banks in say Germany, France and the UK?

    If we are to accept they are not immune, then it follows that as with their European political counterparts, they are likely to be motivated by mutual self-interest as opposed to altruism.

    Therefore it’s in the interests of both the bankers’ and the politicians’ in Greece and elsewhere to ensure that the Greek people remain enslaved to the ideology peddled by Troika and the system that overrides it as opposed to being either autonomous or the potential slaves to others.

    It is clear to me that Tsipras will continue paying more than lip service to the former and in so doing take the Troika carrot consequently to then be punished with their stick.

    In six months or a years time I predict that the Troika will be back with more demands under the guise of “negotiations” with the ultimate aim of sucking Greece dry by way of Q-easing yet more money directly into the already bloated pockets of bankers only to be taken out of Greece as soon as it arrives.

    Just because the people who backed Syriza are idealistic and stand on the right side of justice, honesty and integrity, doesn’t mean the politicians’ of Syriza are necessarily that way inclined too.

  • Mary

    Noteworthy that I am being channelled by Habbabkuk in his one and only comment. Nothing anyone else has said is worthy for his ‘analysis’ presumably.

  • giyane

    Dave Hansell:

    ” Craig, among many others, longs for independence to escape the impractical and unsustainable faith based religious nonsense of the British States fetishism with voodoo neo liberal economic zealotry and imperial world stage pretensions. ”

    Yes Dave, Henry VIII had a lot to answer for when he nationalised religion and kicked out the Pope. most of the public institutions of the UK serve the interests of the C of E monarchy, rather than the interests of the people. Engineers would create a society to be proud of instead of a surveillance system that monitors disaffection.

    But I totally disagree with you that Germany with its Federalist and Fascist history and present day destruction of fellow European economies represents an improvement over the UK.

    The solution to our problems is not to remove religion, which is there to instruct us, hence so much stigma being piled on Islam by he USUKIS creators of Islamic State and Al Qaida – what intelligent person would join them, certainly not the people of Syria?

    No, the solution is in the choice of the right religion, Islam , and the worship of the One God alone. The English qualities you mention of forbearance and indeed understatement, are the best qualities of Islam. Indeed a marriage made in Heaven, the slow acceptance of the truth of Islam by the English people.

    Not the federalist, fascist Islam created by the USUKIS hegemony in Al Qaida and IS. The real Islam of submission to God, which our ancestors who read the good book, the Gospels, and put it into practise, used to form this ballless society about which you are complaining. Islam is not the same, but Henry VIII et al saw to it that the C of E was gelded, for obvious political reaaons. Don’t knock the British please, we will be slaves to Allah, inshallah, one day soon.

  • lwtc247

    OldMark, 12 Jul, 2015 – 12:53 am

    “there was however no need to highlight the fact that many of nouveaux riches plutocrats identified therein are Jewish” – Unless you think a shared political and philosophical cultural and societal outlook has absolutely no bearing in any way whatsoever on how they act and interact with each other, then OldMark is correct.

  • Anon1

    I believe Craig has pointed out on several occasions that bankers are disproportionately Scottish. The world is enslaved to international Scotchry.

  • Anon1

    “Don’t knock the British please, we will be slaves to Allah, inshallah, one day soon.”

    This will probably be the case given levels of Muslim immigration, but in terms of native ‘reverts’, it tends to be mostly the weirdos, oddballs and misfits that go in for that sort of thing.

  • lwtc247

    Daniel
    “If we are to accept they are not immune,” – Doesn’t mean that ALL politicians will be corrupt / corruptible. And Still, you’ve effectively been asked twice for evidence and on both occasions you haven’t given any evidence at all. The reason? You don’t have any evidence. Fine, trust your feelings and world view, but remember these can occasionally be wrong.

    “Just because the people who backed Syriza are idealistic and stand on the right side of justice, honesty and integrity,”

    – Once again, the Greek people voted for a party that would note cede to the intolerable austerity demands of the Euro bankers were demanding. They did not vote for an absolute “No” to ANY austerity.

    ” doesn’t mean the politicians’ of Syriza are necessarily that way inclined too.” and it doesn’t mean they are the exact opposite either.

  • nevermind

    Indeed Mary, he is stalking you for his very own reasons, maybe you should ask for some advice.
    I trawled this up for you.
    http://www.bullyonline.org/related/stalking.htm

    So Tziprias is being stalked by Goldmann Sachs and the ECB to commit the ultimate humiliation which will cost him his job, the default of Greece.

    It is not Germany that provides the offshore havens for Greek tycoons to hide their tax loot, but Osborne, Daniel, but it suits the climate to have a go at the Krauts because they benefited from a debt cancellation in 1953.
    If there was a single sign that Greeks untaxed ex expatriated foreign holdings could be tapped and taxed retrospectively, then Germany would be the first to agree to Greeks plans.

    As it happens its highly unlikely that Osborne will allow any controls over these islands for the rich refugees to park their in parts ill gotten gains. His dad would flog him for it.

    @giyanne, note the small G, have you got any evidence for your twaddl’ish remark, please. What is your practical experience of Germany.

    “But I totally disagree with you that Germany with its Federalist and Fascist history and present day destruction of fellow European economies represents an improvement over the UK.”

    The British economy is as much in deep doodoo than Greece is with its 8.6 trillion debt, and rising? You blame the krauts for that too? bit smarmy isn’t it, when you have no information on Greek capital flight.

    Greeks are queuing up to get passports, they are favourites to settle here in offshore land to invest their mattress nest eggs in over priced British properties, not that this would bring u[p the taxes raised from the Duke of Westminster.

  • lwtc247

    Anon1. You avoid the point. Is it your belief that the Jewishness (and all that entails) has absolutely nothing to do with anything in terms of the way they behave and treat others? Being Scottish doesn’t have it’s own compulsive codes for living one’s life – as you well know.

    As fore your caustic comments on Muslims and immigrants. I wonder where did you immigrate from and consequently do you hold yourself up to similar pejoratives?

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    “Well that’s all right then, so long as the people who voted SNP knew what they were voting for and got what they wanted everybody’s happy aren’t they.”

    aaahhhhh …… that was you being happy.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Greek will be forced out of the euro, giving it enormous moral leverage and a very good in law against the troika, and will then do what it must do. (Bevin)

    There are two difficulties with that, and both have already been mentioned:

    1. It is not in the EU’s interest to force Greece out. That’s the entire basis of the Tsipras plan.
    2. Converting to a new currency base is a very far from trivial matter, and would cost money Greece cannot raise. And I doubt that what would be left of the Greek financial sector would be able to pay for the new ATM’s, even.

    If the troika did expel Greece, it would certainly do so in a manner that minimised the possibility of legal redress, and I think we can all agree that morality has absolutely no weight with the bankers actually running the show.

    Nevermind:
    It is not Germany that provides the offshore havens for Greek tycoons to hide their tax loot, but Osborne, Daniel, but it suits the climate to have a go at the Krauts because they benefited from a debt cancellation in 1953.

    It’s a bit more than just the climate, though, isn’t it? The EU prioritised the payment of the German and French creditors, rather than addressing the – even then – well-known weakness of the Greek economy and throttling the credit available to it. See, eg (2012),

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/19/greece-military-spending-debt-crisis

    If there was a single sign that Greeks untaxed ex expatriated foreign holdings could be tapped and taxed retrospectively, then Germany would be the first to agree to Greeks plans.

    I doubt it. On present form, they’d be reducing the timescale and upping the penalties. They want that cash back on their books – they’re well out of pocket on Greece.

    But certainly you are right about Osborne’s protection of the Greek fat cats from the fat cats who want their money. And it’s unlikely anything will change there. If it did, and our proxy-offshore City operation ceased to attract dodgy money, we’d be in the same position as Greece sooner rather than (as I believe) later.

  • Andrew

    This seems to be a copy of the German position on Greece, as of Friday. Berlin rejects the latest Greek proposals as inadequate and says the Greeks should be “offered” a “time-out” from the Eurozone for at least 5 years unless they can rapidly come up with better proposals.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJqMmNHWEAA704z.jpg

  • Anon1

    Lwtc247

    Glad you could engage. Could you explain some of the ways “they [the Jews] behave and treat others”? I should like to know how these are Jewish characteristics. Perhaps you could list each of them with a note alongside explaining their essential “Jewishness”?

    I made no “caustic” comment on Muslim immigration.

    PS, Can you please explain what your name stands for?

    Thanks.

  • Dave Hansell

    Giyanne,

    I suspect you are reading too much in what I actually wrote.

    My point in that regard was that even forty years back it was clear to me that facilities and quality of life in Germany was and remains far better than in the UK. The reason being that the British establishment prefers short term finance and bean counting to real long term practical productivity. Our elites hate manufacturing. They look down their noses at it. They have have no respect or regard for the practical and despise, loathe and disdain practical people like engineers.

    In places like France, Germany and Holland the mindset is completely different. Which is why, for example British Telecom ‘ s massive losses, due to this very short termism, we’re turned around when they appointed a Dutch national as CEO fifteen years or so back.

    The one thing I will say about the Germans in the context of this discussion, grudgingly giving them their due, is that the British establishment have made their own poor pay the austerity price of bailing out the foreign debt of British banks; whereas the Germans are making the poor of other countries, like Greece, pay the austerity price of bailing out the foreign debts of German banks.

  • OldMark

    ‘This seems to be a copy of the German position on Greece, as of Friday. Berlin rejects the latest Greek proposals as inadequate and says the Greeks should be “offered” a “time-out” from the Eurozone for at least 5 years unless they can rapidly come up with better proposals.’

    Andrew- that German proposal appears to have been a unilateral would-be diktat from Germany to the Greeks, who in turn have objected to being humiliated in this way. And so, the saga goes on…

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33497353

  • Dave Hansell

    Clarke,

    I am not convinced you fully appreciate Fred’s position when he says the people of Scotland got what they voted for in the 2015 election.

    Put simply his position is that by voting SNP they got a Conservative Government. To further substantiate this position Fred cites evidence that by voting in 56 New Labour MP’S in 1997 and 2001, and 41 New Labour MP’S in 2005 from Scotland you got a New Labour Government.

    Let us instead put this to the test.

    The 2015 election delivered the following overall UK wide result:

    Conservatives – 330 seats
    New Labour – 232 seats
    Lib Dem – 8 seats

    In Scotland the result was:

    SNP – 56 seats
    Conservatives – 1 seat
    New Labour – 1 seat
    Lib Dems – 1 seat

    Trying to be charitable to Fred here let’s assume that if the Scottish people whom he he is clearly so disappointed with had voted not only 56 New Labour MP’S to go with the 1 seat they actually won but also took the two other seats from the Conservatives and Lib Dems giving them all 59 Scottish seats.

    This would give the current HOC the following seat allocation:

    Conservatives – 329 seats
    New Labour – 291 seats
    Lib Dems – 7 seats

    Leaving New Labour and the Lib Dems to find another 32 seats from other parties to obtain a 1 seat majority over the Conservatives to stop them forming a Government.

    Conclusion. Even if New Labour had taken all 59 Scottish seats the Scottish people would still have had a Conservative Government.

    But let’s also fact check Fred’s back up evidence about the 1997, 2001, and 2005 elections:

    1997:

    New Labour – 418 seats, including 56 from Scotland
    Conservative – 165 seats
    Lib Dem – 46 seats

    The arithmetic here is unarguable. Regardless of whether or not those 56 Scottish seats which New Labour won in that election had gone to the Conservatives, Lib Dems, SNP, Monster Raving Loonies or whoever New Labour would still have achieved 418 – 56 = 362 seats. Leaving 267 seats + minor parties like the Ulster Unionists etc amongst their rivals.

    Conclusion. Even without winning a single Scottish seat and losing them all to the other two main parties New Labour would still have won the 1997 election.

    The arithmetic is equally unarguable for the other two elections Fred cites as evidence.

    2001:

    New Labour – 413 seats including 56 Scottish seats
    Conservatives – 166 seats
    Lib Dems – 52 seats

    413 seats less 56 Scottish seats = 357 New Labour seats
    166 (Con.) + 52 (Lib Dem) + 56 = 274 seats

    Conclusion. In 2001 with the Scottish seats distributed to anyone other than New Labour the combined opposition would have needed a further 85 seats to have avoided another New Labour Government.

    2005:

    New Labour – 355 seats including 41 Scottish seats
    Conservatives – 198 seats
    Lib Dem – 62 seats

    Once again, if we take all the Scottish seats in that election off New Labour and give them to the opposition the arithmetic is unarguable.

    355 less 41 = 314 seats for New Labour
    198 + 62 + 41 for the main opposition = 301 seats

    Requiring a Coalition with other minor parties of 14 other seats to prevent a New Labour Government, bearing in mind that at least one of the minor parties the Northern Ireland SDLP would have aligned itself with New Labour making the unseating of New Labour even more unlikely.

    Conclusion. Once again, the Scottish seats make absolutely no difference to the outcome. Zilch. Nothing. The arithmetic is conclusive. Fred’s argument is factually, logically and arithmetically as wrong as it is possible to be. It is as far away from reality as flying pigs or poverty stricken and starving bankers.

    Overall Conclusions:

    1. Arithmetic and logic are clearly not Fred’s strong points.

    2. Fred blames the Scottish people for something over which they have no control and, given his clear position on the independent issue, he does not want this situation to change at any price.

    3. This explains the consistent personal abuse used by Fred which is encapsulated in the oft used phrase “fuck off and die, retard.” It is all he’s got.

    Sitting in ones own bile, ranting and raving at the world because it will not conform to ones expectations and requirements should engender pity rather than scorn. You need to be more patient Clarke and point out the factual and logical errors inherent in this position.

  • Dave Lawton

    @RD
    “And how does Churchill justify Putin’s actions? You really are a ignoramus when it comes to morality.”

    Is that your best shot. Putin is a Saint compared to Churchill.

  • Anon1

    Dave, that wasn’t Fred’s point. His point was that the Scots voted Labour in three consecutive elections, and got Labour. Now they whinge that they are under a national government they didn’t vote for.

  • Anon1

    “Sofa Overlooking Gaza”

    I thought it was deckchairs? Variously I have heard armchairs, palanquins and stalking seats, but sofas is a new one.

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