On Disappearing People 98


If you thought things had much changed under Obama, think again. There has been much publicity for the news that US forces have captured an alleged ISIS chemical weapons expert, Suleiman al-Afari. There was considerably less publicity for the news that he is being held in yet another new US black prison detention site. It is situated on the territory of the USA’s Kurdish allies in Irbil, Iraq, but was constructed and is run entirely by the US military. Many detainees have vanished into its gates. Very few, if any, have come out again.

Yet again the US is simply disappearing people into secret prisons on foreign soil. Obama has in effect maintained the Bush doctrine that “enemy combatants” are neither alleged criminals nor soldiers. They do not get the rights of alleged criminals to decent treatment and a fair trial, nor do they get the Geneva Convention rights of soldiers captured during a war. They are non-persons who can simply be pitched into a black hole.

Even if they actually are terrorists, that does not leave them devoid of rights. I would also argue that to treat terrorists other than as common criminals, deserving of formal criminal process, contributes to their glorification and gives them a status they do not deserve. But formal process is essential because we know for certain that they often pick up people who are entirely innocent.

I leave aside the argument that it is the United States which caused the collapse of Iraq and it is with Blair and Bush that the guilt ultimately lies. But I leave it aside with the comment that it is an argument deserving of much weight.

I never quite made up my mind whether Obama was a decent man who was corrupted/bullied into adopting the neo-con agenda, or whether he was a play-acting sociopath all along. I do know that Clinton is a hardened warmonger who positively relishes the notion of “enemies” being killed. She is just a sociopath; she doesn’t bother much with the acting.


98 thoughts on “On Disappearing People

1 2 3 4
  • fedup

    Saadi you are as confused as ever;

    about CIA (US/NATO, whatever) black sites, the gulag established under the Bush Administration and continued by the Obama Administration.

    As far back as 2005 Wapo was carrying articles about 500,000 Muslims being held in various camps across the world under the edict of the US, people getting abducted from the streets of cities and towns across the world and disappearing. The Pakistani female neuroscientist who was tortured (raped and fallen pregnant she was subject of abortions more than once), rendered and finally imprisoned.

    Fact that there is a huge swathes of refugees (these are not even classified as refugees and daubed as immigrants)from these war torn countries that are flocking to the various borders of Europe and are left to rot in the cold and the rain with diseases rampant and malnutrition the order of the day.

    So far evidently no one has even had the guts to admit that at least Nazi had the decency of transferring the war time refugees into orderly camps. This of course flies in the face of the conventional narrative of the goodies and the baddies.

    As do KOWN, and Nevermind and others who have pointed out the carnage of the German males in the make shift concentration camps with a sole view of killing these en mass.

    This was not the first time the banksters had committed mass murder and it wouldn’t be the last time. History keeps repeating itself because the conventional narrative passed as history is full of lies and make believe fairly tales. As ever the victors writing the narrative and twisting the actualities to fit around their propaganda and political imperatives.

    Show, at some point, for some, everything comfortably would devolve to, ‘Zionists, Israel, the Jews’ and – and this is a crucial point – those three things would wholly be conflated, essentialised.

    Straw man argument that sets up the next the scene to denounce yet more “Muslims”;

    How about focussing for a change on, say, ‘The Saudi Royal Family’ (after all, a de facto ally of Israel), or Iraqi Kurdistan (likewise, Israel’s pal)?

    Theis forcing the argument into the realm of the chicken or the egg principle, begs the question; did these reactionaries in the al saud gang or the Kurdish mercenaries in the Northern Iraq come first or zionistan?

    Fact is zionistan for years has been the “loyal little ulster in the heart of the Arab lands” and gradually this cancer is spreading to infect other reactionaries whom find killing and maiming people to the be the surest method to maintaining an iron grip on the benighted and beleaguered Arab populations in the mid east.

    Given the extent of the hatred towards Muslims in the West and given the extent of the dislocation of nations of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria the said al saud pederasts are further inflaming degrees of hated towards Muslims in the West whilst killing more Muslims in the Mideast.

    I put to you, you are aware of these facts yet the fears of “Prevent” and the the labels thereof are sufficient for you to start genuflecting to the imperatives of the zionists, and to come out with the contradictory nonsense above.

    The seeds of the current hundred years war was sown in the 1990s by this little gem; “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm” The necon handbook for the current waves of “creative destruction”*

    * turning a perfectly valid theory upside down to fit their won agenda and shamelessly propagating this myth born out of the innate neurosis befalling any long term violent aggressor.

  • RobG

    Of course, the first major assault on civil liberties in America was the Patriot Act, probably the biggest piece of legislation ever put before Congress, and the Patriot Act was produced just days after 9/11.

    To jolly things along, in the week following 9/11 we had the anthrax attacks…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks

    … just to make sure that the Patriot Act got passed, even though most people in Congress did not even have time to read this piece of law properly.

    This is not ‘conspiracy theory’, it’s fact.

    Those who defend this abomination are going to face justice.

  • fwl

    Which countries have the best record for not disappearing its subjects/citizens or foes?

  • giyane

    Suhayl

    Are you sure you’re not triangulating the Zionist lobby to curry favour with Saudi petrodollars?

    Schlong. Yes, Craig’s being naughty asking trick questions about sympathising with war criminals in Iraqi jails. But I think he’s bored in his new role as an independent.

    Our beloved leaders are about to import all the Daesh war criminals on Turkish visas to this country. Talk about moral relativism. Giving them power to terrorise people hasn’t healed them. Why not bring them here to start a new life with their Saudi blood-money?

  • Suhayl Saadi

    “Straw man argument that sets up the next the scene to denounce yet more “Muslims”;” Fed Up

    So, am I a self-hating so-and-so, then eh?

    “I put to you, you are aware of these facts yet the fears of “Prevent” and the the labels thereof are sufficient for you to start genuflecting to the imperatives of the zionists, and to come out with the contradictory nonsense above.” Fed Up.

    So, am I a ‘Zionist gatekeeper’?

    See? Told you. It’s almost like a bot. Now for you know who.

    “Fact is zionistan for years has been the “loyal little ulster in the heart of the Arab lands” and gradually this cancer is spreading to infect other reactionaries whom find killing and maiming people to the be the surest method to maintaining an iron grip on the benighted and beleaguered Arab populations in the mid east.” Fed Up

    There is some truth in this. But you know, the Wahhabis were there long before Israel, good pals of the UK of course. They just got very rich and happened to be sitting on the modern world’s primary resource. Then Salafism was born. Equally, being Devil’s Advocate, one might say that Israel has become increasingly extreme – yes, I know it is supremacist to begin with, as is the USA actually – because it is sitting not in, say, Wyoming but in an area of extremes. that various extremisms feed off of one another, that there is thriving toxic soup of intolerance, violence, supremacism.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    But no, one must always tow the line – and it is only their line – or be denounced! It’s just like being in the Communist Revolutionary Groupuscule except the Ur belief of this groupuscule boils down to this:

    ‘Israel is the root of all evil!’

    There is no need for any further discussion, or thought, once one has iterated this mantra. Let us all intone it together. One, two, three…

  • fedup

    Saadi your historical amnesia is painfully manifest.

    No you are not gate keeper, you wish you were, but in reality you are a frightened little soul who is toeing the line of the current police state.

    Wahhabi ascendancy was part of the reshaping of the mideast post the Ottoman empire’s destruction, trust you have heard of Lawrence? Fat lot of good that did to the area as it is reapplied over again.

    Your exclusive or philosophy of zero sum arguments are sophomorical at best mischievous as worst. Why not condemn these despicable entities en mass instead of haranguing others into silence about zionistan? IE start putting forward your misgivings about the al saud pederasts and their coterie in the emirates, instead of jumping to silence the anti zionists.

    You really believe there is a future for zionistan in the mid east! Fact is the shitty little strip of land happens to be in the place that hundred year wars were fought and historical memory goes way back. Those thousand year old olive trees are just part of the identity of the place you know, that is why the zionist thugs uproot these benevolent elders in the hopes of erasing the history of the indigenous Palestinians.

    You would have been supporting the south African apartheid if it was still around, in the forlorn hopes of securing a minimal concession from the Afrikaans master race!

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Now that’s just a little silly, Fed Up. Yes, I know the history. Truth is, you and your ilk don’t want discussion, or analysis, or a dialectical approach, you just want to dominate by bellowing slogans. And that actually weakens your position. It’s not interesting or incisive, it’s just repetitive, banal.

    “…jumping to silence the anti zionists.” Fed Up

    But you are the one who has jumped.

  • Beth

    Stephen Lendman, a Chicago blogger and author of the book – How Wall Street Fleeced America -wrote about the crook Obama was before he became President. A lot of people are still fooled because they swallow the image but try asking them about any good thing he has done and they do not have an answer. And now as Rob G said we will have years of another criminal President who can do no wrong because she is a woman. Already dreading the congratulatory tweets when she wins from people who should know better.

  • fedup

    Saadi as always;

    Now that’s just a little silly, Fed Up. Yes, I know the history. Truth is, you and your ilk don’t want discussion, or analysis, or a dialectical approach, you just want to dominate by bellowing slogans. And that actually weakens your position. It’s not interesting or incisive, it’s just repetitive, banal.

    Who is sloganeering?

    So, am I a self-hating so-and-so, then eh?

    So, am I a ‘Zionist gatekeeper’?

    See? Told you. It’s almost like a bot. Now for you know who

    Not you is it? Not at all, not at all!!!!

    Indeed the very interesting, exceedingly interesting, Saddi goes on;

    There is no need for any further discussion, or thought, once one has iterated this mantra. Let us all intone it together. One, two, three…

    Not repetitious at all!!!

    My ilk has no quarrel with our identities, safe and secure that what we are is what we would like to be, but you on the other hand have your inner struggles that are so manifestly conveyed by your comments. How can you close your eyes and believe that the blood thirsty, crazed supremacists in zionistan will ever accept the Palestinians as human beings and inhabitants of their own lands?

    You really don’t get it do you? Your inner identity conflict is no basis for condemning the vast swathes of Palestinians and other refugees wandering the borders. Fact that you condemn these wretched, tired souls is not even crossing your mind is it?

  • Alan

    “wrote about the crook Obama was before he became President”

    Oh please, just like Blair he is a lawyer i.e. Somebody who tells lies for a living.

    You get exactly what you paid for, Suckers! The thing about Lawyer Jokes is that they are all true.

  • Alan

    And in case you are incapable of following that line of thought, anybody who is willing to tell lies for a living is a sociopath.

  • Alan

    Just to help you out: http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

    Pathological Lying

    Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

    And Obama does keep telling us how exceptional Americans are.

  • K Crosby

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Losses

    [The American empire has plenty of blood on its hands, there’s no need to embroider]

    Other Losses is a 1989 book by Canadian writer James Bacque, in which Bacque alleges that U.S. General Dwight Eisenhower intentionally caused the deaths by starvation or exposure of around a million German prisoners of war held in Western internment camps briefly after the Second World War. Other Losses charges that hundreds of thousands of German prisoners that had fled the Eastern front were designated as “Disarmed Enemy Forces” in order to avoid recognition under the third Geneva Convention, for the purpose of carrying out their deaths through disease or slow starvation. Other Losses cites documents in the U.S. National Archives and interviews with people who stated they witnessed the events. The book claims that there was a “method of genocide” in the banning of Red Cross inspectors, the returning of food aid, the policy regarding shelter building, and soldier ration policy.

    Stephen Ambrose and seven other historians examined the book soon after its publication, and came to the conclusion that it was inaccurate and the product of conspiracy theory. Other historians, including the former senior historian of the United States Army Center of Military History, Colonel Ernest F. Fisher, who was involved in the 1945 investigations into the allegations of misconduct by U.S. troops in Germany and who wrote the book’s foreword, argues that the claims are accurate.

  • K Crosby

    ‘However, internment was used on and off by the govt of the Republic of Ireland from the 1930s to the 1970s, coinciding with the various outbreaks of IRA terrorist activity during that period.

    It was highly successful.’

    Highly successful for what?

    The owners of “liberal” states always put their jackboots on when they perceives a threat to their privileges or an opportunity to use a spurious threat to increase them.

  • nevermind, mental health is a burning issue

    Its disturbing to know that the US has not decided to stop its extraordinary rendition program and that we are colluding with this.
    Today’s announcement that ‘NATO would be in peril’ should Britain pull out of the EU, is telling.

    Now is the time to create a European initiative to create our very own balance to the roughish characters on both sides. Europe needs t create its own peace and defence force, long overdue imho, the first moves should have started in 1989 when the wall came down in Berlin.

    What an accomplished side step by Putin, pulling out whilst peace talks are going on, but, hang on a moment.

    This leaves us with some uncertainties though.

    How many troops will he pull out?
    Will the SS400 surface to air missile system remain? and was his time there long enough to teach Assad’s forces to operate this system?
    Another question would be whether any incursions by Israeli jets, as frequently happened in the past, will be still rebuffed by whoever is left in Tartus and Latakia? I suppose time will tell.

  • Alcyone

    ^ Perfect example of lost in Analysis-Paralysis!

    And he talks about ‘mental health’. Insane 😉

  • Alcyone

    What was that story about coloured people being discriminated against in the Oscar awards?

    Obama should receive a Lifetime Achievement Award. Better actor than Reagan, by far.

    But Hillary doesn’t need to act; she is the Real Thing. Shudder!!!

    That’s why I say don’t pin your hopes on politicians.

    Change in our Type Zero Global Civilisation can only come about through a change in Human Consciousness. It’s down to You and Me, or the not-me. There’s Democracy embedded in Consciousness. And that is not some Theory; it is a FACT. Love it or leave it, that IS the REALITY.

    Have a good day, All.

  • Habbabkuk (for fact-based, polite, rational and obsession-free posting)

    KOWN

    Re-read my post:

    “What you wrote has been said before on here (several times).

    We have also read, on here, how the British tortured various Nazi bigwigs (eg the onetime commandant of Auschwitz).

    All very interesting and good for a (very) retrospective swipe at the US and UK but…..what exactly is your point?”

    See the connection between para 2 (“British”) and para 3 (“swipe at the UK”)?

    All clear now?

  • Habbabkuk (for fact-based, polite, rational and obsession-free posting)

    “Aidworker”
    _______________________

    “John Goss – don’t let the trolls get you down like Mary.”
    ____________________

    Mr Goss needs no help in lowering himself, he’s doing a great job all by himself.

    And you, “Aidworker”, keep out of it, you meddling fool.

  • Habbabkuk (for fact-based, polite, rational and obsession-free posting)

    RobG

    “I keep having dreams about me and Habba sitting on a beach together and holding hands.”
    ________________________

    Well, Rob, we could* be sitting together – perhaps not on the beach and certainly not holding hands** but perhaps, let’s say, in the shade of a big plane tree in the courtyard of your French gîte.

    At least we COULD be, if you could bring yourself to tell me your daily rates so that I can see whether a stay at your gîte might be affordable.

    So how about it: what daily rate do you charge per person ?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    * if the DGSI hasn’t got to you first. Be careful.

    ** which reminds me of what happened to former President Sarkozy at a French agricultural show. He tried to press the flesh of a farmer, who promptly drew back and exclaimed “Ah non, tu me saliras! (“ah no, you’ll dirty me”). 🙂

  • Habbabkuk (for fact-based, polite, rational and obsession-free posting)

    K. Crosby

    “‘However, internment was used on and off by the govt of the Republic of Ireland from the 1930s to the 1970s, coinciding with the various outbreaks of IRA terrorist activity during that period.

    It was highly successful.’

    Highly successful for what?”
    ______________________

    Highly successful for putting an end to the IRA terror campaigns.

    Please refer to OldMark’s several posts of yesterday and do try to keep up and pay attention.

    Fool!

  • KingOfWelshNoir

    Habbabkuk :

    We have also read, on here, how the British tortured various Nazi bigwigs (eg the onetime commandant of Auschwitz).

    All very interesting and good for a (very) retrospective swipe at the US and UK but…..what exactly is your point?”

    See the connection between para 2 (“British”) and para 3 (“swipe at the UK”)?

    All clear now?

    Er… not clear at all matey. The reference to British torture is from YOUR post, there is no mention of it in mine. Instead the only mention of Britain in mine is the paragraph at the end that points out conditions for the POWs improved markedly when the camps passed into British hands.

    There is nothing in my post that can be interpreted as a swipe at the UK. Although, of course, they certainly deserve a swipe…

  • Charlie

    Craig, The word “sociopath” is a trendy and over used label. Spotting a sociopath is difficult even for trained pro’s. The damage is usually done before they’re spotted. Hillary may or not be a sociopath but her husband certainly is. Look at trail of destruction. She may be a shill. Billy boy is a dangerous man, something which Ken Starr understood.

  • Silvio

    FYI: Ray McGovern, a former CIA analyst and now anti-torture activist, said in a recent interview he believes Obama is scared of the CIA and NSA.

    Ex-CIA Official Says Obama Doesn’t Follow Through on Promises Out of Fear of CIA

    Claire Bernish
    March 14, 2016

    (ANTIMEDIA) AcTVism Munich recently interviewed former CIA analyst-turned-activist, Ray McGovern, whose steadfast anti-torture stance led him to return his Intelligence Commendation Medal in 2006 — when the CIA sought official inclusion of torture in its methodology.

    SNIP

    McGovern also described Europe’s role in the torture campaign and his opinion on whether President Obama had followed through on campaign promises to hold officials accountable for their actions.

    “The role of our ‘allies,’ in my view, is a scandal. Fifty-three other countries cooperated in the kidnapping — extraordinary rendition — of suspected terrorists to black sites, where they were administered ‘enhanced interrogation techniques … which, by the way, is a direct, literal translation of verschärfte Vernehmung, right out of the Gestapo manual. I have the manual, and the sad thing is that many of the techniques are exactly the same — with a few ‘enhancements’ by the U.S. since World War II. So the role of our European allies and others has just, really, disappointed me greatly.

    “Now, why President Obama … decided not to hold the torturers accountable is another very sad story,” McGovern continued, saying the president “is afraid” of the CIA. “I never thought I would hear myself saying that the President of the United States is afraid of the CIA, but he is. He’s afraid of the NSA, as well.”

    Transcript and embedded video of 14minute interview with McGovern at link:
    http://theantimedia.org/ex-cia-official-says-obama-doesnt-follow-through-on-promises-out-of-fear-of-cia/

    Dear Mr McGovern, ever thought that if Obama’s was scared of the CIA/NSA (and hence could be subject to intimidation) maybe at least some of the leaders of the USA’s allies were too?

  • Old Mark

    Highly successful for what?”
    ______________________

    Highly successful for putting an end to the IRA terror campaigns.

    Please refer to OldMark’s several posts of yesterday and do try to keep up and pay attention.

    K Crosby

    FYI I’ll also re-post the link I gave yesterday describing the successful utilisation of the War Measures Act by the Trudeau government in Canada in 1970-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis

    The FLQ was essentially destroyed as a paramilitary force by the robust actions of the Trudeau government in 1970, and since then the Quebecois have pursued their (entirely valid) separatist campaign by exclusively peaceful means. Surely that is a desirable outcome, and a case (uncommon, but they do happen) where the ends have demonstrably justified the (dubious and regrettable) means ?

1 2 3 4

Comments are closed.