Of A Type Developed By Liars 746


I have now received confirmation from a well placed FCO source that Porton Down scientists are not able to identify the nerve agent as being of Russian manufacture, and have been resentful of the pressure being placed on them to do so. Porton Down would only sign up to the formulation “of a type developed by Russia” after a rather difficult meeting where this was agreed as a compromise formulation. The Russians were allegedly researching, in the “Novichok” programme a generation of nerve agents which could be produced from commercially available precursors such as insecticides and fertilisers. This substance is a “novichok” in that sense. It is of that type. Just as I am typing on a laptop of a type developed by the United States, though this one was made in China.

To anybody with a Whitehall background this has been obvious for several days. The government has never said the nerve agent was made in Russia, or that it can only be made in Russia. The exact formulation “of a type developed by Russia” was used by Theresa May in parliament, used by the UK at the UN Security Council, used by Boris Johnson on the BBC yesterday and, most tellingly of all, “of a type developed by Russia” is the precise phrase used in the joint communique issued by the UK, USA, France and Germany yesterday:

This use of a military-grade nerve agent, of a type developed by Russia, constitutes the first offensive use of a nerve agent in Europe since the Second World War.

When the same extremely careful phrasing is never deviated from, you know it is the result of a very delicate Whitehall compromise. My FCO source, like me, remembers the extreme pressure put on FCO staff and other civil servants to sign off the dirty dossier on Iraqi WMD, some of which pressure I recount in my memoir Murder in Samarkand. She volunteered the comparison to what is happening now, particularly at Porton Down, with no prompting from me.

Separately I have written to the media office at OPCW to ask them to confirm that there has never been any physical evidence of the existence of Russian Novichoks, and the programme of inspection and destruction of Russian chemical weapons was completed last year.

Did you know these interesting facts?

OPCW inspectors have had full access to all known Russian chemical weapons facilities for over a decade – including those identified by the “Novichok” alleged whistleblower Mirzayanov – and last year OPCW inspectors completed the destruction of the last of 40,000 tonnes of Russian chemical weapons

By contrast the programme of destruction of US chemical weapons stocks still has five years to run

Israel has extensive stocks of chemical weapons but has always refused to declare any of them to the OPCW. Israel is not a state party to the Chemical Weapons Convention nor a member of the OPCW. Israel signed in 1993 but refused to ratify as this would mean inspection and destruction of its chemical weapons. Israel undoubtedly has as much technical capacity as any state to synthesise “Novichoks”.

Until this week, the near universal belief among chemical weapons experts, and the official position of the OPCW, was that “Novichoks” were at most a theoretical research programme which the Russians had never succeeded in actually synthesising and manufacturing. That is why they are not on the OPCW list of banned chemical weapons.

Porton Down is still not certain it is the Russians who have apparently synthesised a “Novichok”. Hence “Of a type developed by Russia”. Note developed, not made, produced or manufactured.

It is very carefully worded propaganda. Of a type developed by liars.

UPDATE

This post prompted another old colleague to get in touch. On the bright side, the FCO have persuaded Boris he has to let the OPCW investigate a sample. But not just yet. The expectation is the inquiry committee will be chaired by a Chinese delegate. The Boris plan is to get the OPCW also to sign up to the “as developed by Russia” formula, and diplomacy to this end is being undertaken in Beijing right now.

I don’t suppose there is any sign of the BBC doing any actual journalism on this?

Erratum – I originally typed “nerve gas” and not “nerve agent” in the first line – purely my error.


746 thoughts on “Of A Type Developed By Liars

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  • Susan Shand

    There is zero chance that the BBC will do any actual journalism on this. So far they have done everything in their power to make it all Jeremy Corbyn’s fault and to imply this by fair means or foul at every opportunity.

  • Tuss Marie Lysén

    Thank you Mr Craig Murray, for this article.
    At this very critical time in the world,
    finding truth is like trying to count the stars.
    Please do not stop, you are very much needed!

  • Kiza

    Oh my, the reaction of the UK Parliament to Corbyn’s questions to the Prime Minister…(before he flipped over) what a fall of a nation. This is like watching a former Lord and rich landowner come around begging a tupence for a bottle of gin. The sadest moment I have seen in a while. Rush to war, do not ask any questions! Where do they find these cretins?

    • Henry North

      “Where do they find these cretins?” The British public vote for anything wearing a red or blue rosette. Thats how things happen. Especially in South Yorkshire. Doesn’t matter who the person is, they’ll get voted in if they are wearing a red rosette in all but one constituency in that county. Apathy also helps.

      May taking on Russia, was like a Mouse that Roared at a Lion.

      • Andrew Merlin

        Based on the logic of Theresa May, after recognizing the fact of the illegal destruction of half a million Iraqis Tony Blair England had to pass a sentence and self-destruct by undermining the nuclear Arsenal in its territory, without waiting for Russian Sarmatians and avant-garde. And Russia is something that needs to do now, even if they whacked a few of their traitors? To apologize or what? So England herself is not destroyed. And we won’t apologize.

    • Kiza

      Well, I called them the cretins because Russia is not Iraq. They could have behaved like that in Parliament when they were planning to grab Iraqi oil, but the Russian resources have a slightly higher price tag attached.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    I am at a rock festival with my wife, and it is completely brilliant. My computer is over 200 miles away at home, but I read something really funny last night in my mother-in-laws home. It was about Craig Murray. She said Craig is very good at posting the truth after it has been revealed. How cutting was that. I think she is called mikalina and she reckons they are in The Bahamas sunning themselves. Has anyone taken a photo of these Russians in Bed in Salisbury yet? And we are supposed to believe this shit? I do not have edir facilities I am posting on my mobile phone from a rock festival in Lancashire and we are expecting it to.snow tomorrow Tony

  • N_

    There’s been a shooting incident in St Leonards, killing two women. One shooter. Fifteen ambulances. St Leonards is part of the stomping ground for “Britain’s most notorious landlord”.

    Any Russian “business activity” in that area?

    • Emil

      Thanks for that, N.

      There’s info on counterpunch coming through that it was Ukrainian Muslims. NSA crew all over it apparently, filming the ambulencemen and not letting them go home. Talk of Kurdish involvement too. You got any more on that mate?

    • Emil

      RT have latest (as usual!). But only on Spanish language channel. All others being BLOCKED from this interview or even reporting on it. If you can’t get RT en Espanol, find it NOW and turn on subtitles or find an interpreter.

      Spanish air-traffic controller employed in England due to his fluent Ukrainian is giving interview, and his version of events bears NO RELATION to what’s being reported in MSM.

      More coming…

      • Emil

        Wow! Was anyone else watching that?!

        Turns out Craig has been proved right YET AGAIN! Except even more right than even he was probably expecting.

        Long story short – whole thing is FALSE FLAG. No so-called “nervnichock”, no nerve agent, no Russian trator or traitor-daughter even. Turns out whole thing was manufactured straight out of GCHQ, J-klo Dept. UK TV and other msm in on it from the start. Passing blonde Salisbury “jogger” is known uk-intel asset. “Unwell” police guy is special branch who got too close to truth and was taken out.

        Spanish air traffic controller witnessed it all, including removal of all pasta from Italian restaurant where dying guy and daughter hadn’t even eaten because they DON’T EVEN EXIST. Photos were mocked up using latest software and stills from penultimate series of Dick Emery Show (bbc ; itv refused permission apparently). Spanish atc now in hiding in Catalonia, fears for life. Hoping for asylum call from Beppe Grillo or DNR.

        This is going to be HUGE.

    • H. Lyon

      The more I read on this subject the more confused I become! #Where ignorance is bliss it is folly to be wise#

  • Emil

    Hi Craig,
    Just a simple ask – could you stop referring to everything in the former Soviet Union as “Russian”, please? The space was a mulitinational and plural one, with equal but different credit and blame for the successes and the failures, but you tend to call it all “Rusian” I’ve noticed unless it involves you after collapse of SU directly.
    Cool? Thanks!

    • Tom_12

      This is a VERY GOOD point. I was doing this all my life until the attacks on Russian during Putin Era started. Stalin was Georgian, Trotsky no Russian, Cheka chief Polish etc.

      • N_

        @Tom_12
        This is a VERY GOOD point. I was doing this all my life until the attacks on Russian during Putin Era started. Stalin was Georgian, Trotsky no Russian, Cheka chief Polish etc.

        Many leading “Russian” oligarchs today are also what you call “no Russians”.

  • John Welch

    I am foaming at the mouth, but not from any “nerve agent” but from the sheer stupidity of the UK government. It’s interesting to note that the new definition of traitor is “someone who asks to see the evidence”.

  • Durak

    Pathogen security in the CIS labs… worth investigating?
    Under contract worked in quite a few and was always unconvinced anything was really secure by a long shot.
    These included the Tashkent NCDC as well as many others.

    Shocking the bias shown in the media without any real evidence.

    • Emil

      Heh. Good one, mate! 🙂

      Your piss-take has outdone mine by a good long way. I wish I’d though of the “pathogen from CIS” one! These gets wouldn’t know the difference between biological and chemical if it was streaming out of their ears, would they?

      I love the “worked under contract in quite a few labs” throughout the (closely knit, as we all know) CIS too. And Tashkent NCDC – yup, that’s a sure-fire likely source for a nerve agent! Brilliant!

    • freddy

      WHAT HOSPITAL CAN WE FIND THEM IN (no, not Skripal & Julia) ?

      So far all those various smart a*s – brilliant scientists, big time security and medical experts, msm talking heads, politicians of every variety, all of them seem to be hiding from a very simple question, that is: where are those who actually (allegedly) have administered/sprayed (allegedly) a super-lethal nerve agent ? Those Putin’s agents were supposed to be either dead by now or taken to a hospital and to be in much worse condition because according to the Ministry of Truth story they allegedly mixed it, handled it, sprayed it and somehow disposed of it

    • alex jacques

      It is not total nonsense ,,but close. There is a definite reason why it has happened in that way and at such a time, Could Putin have scared them all to hell with his declaration of new weapons? It sure seems to have drawn a dividing line between the East and West. Of course England is in between. Resembles a great Chess Game. What will the next move be and by whom? Some countries may feel Putin has them by the Ass. just saying now,,I’m no Prophet

  • Kent

    I agree with the writer that “It is very carefully worded propaganda. Of a type developed by liars.”

    The one fact that the “poisoning incident” occurred on 4th March, barely two weeks from the Presidential Election in Russia, shows that this “very carefully worded propaganda. Of a type developed by liars.” was “highly likely” meant by Teresa May, Trump, Macron and Merkel to discredit Putin and to meddle in Russia’s Presidential Elections on 18 March?

    Please ask yourself this question: “Is Putin that insane to try to poison a worthless ex-spy and his daughter 14 days before the Presidential Election in Russia in which he has much to lose?” The answer is NO !!

    • PetrGrozny

      He’d be insane to do it three months before the World Cup. Teresa, Boris and Gavin were insane to deliver him 5 million votes during the ast week of campaign.

    • fred

      The only effect it would have on the Presidential elections would be to get Putin more votes. This certainly won’t harm him in any way.

      What was significant about the timing is that the poisoning occurred at a time when most of Europe is heavily dependent on Russian gas so pleas for retaliation in the form of economic sanctions will certainly fall on deaf ears.

    • SA

      The analysis seems to be clear as to what the sequence of events is. It also seems to indicate that the nerve agent or precursors origin is in the Skripal’s house but that it could not have been in active form as it would kill very quickly but that DS Bailey was quickly poisoned at the house.
      Other interesting information discussed is how the UKG has been obfuscations referral to the OPCW and also the wording of joint communique by the four western powers.

  • JimKirk

    You know there are those inside the Services whom are not happy about this situation when Craig Murray speaks out. What a disjointed Nation we live in, what with so many a competing and contrasting narrative springing forth from an Ocean of propaganda.

    Whilst this type of thing has been going on for an age I must admit to feeling somewhat fragmented into atoms by this plurality of realities, increasing in both number and intensity since, oh, the Blair Wars. Alan Rusbridger summed it up well on twitter onc , Craig, truth suppression like world war one but on steroids <- granted not his exact words, just the gist.

    Where do we go from here Craig? Another attack like this except in an election cycle? Another bombing perhaps? Will Corbyn still eat the Pringle, Craig?!

  • Sharp Ears

    March 16, 2018
    The Iraq Death Toll 15 Years After the US Invasion
    by Medea Benjamin – Nicolas J. S. Davies

    March 19 marks 15 years since the U.S.-U.K invasion of Iraq in 2003, and the American people have no idea of the enormity of the calamity the invasion unleashed. The US military has refused to keep a tally of Iraqi deaths. General Tommy Franks, the man in charge of the initial invasion, bluntly told reporters, “We don’t do body counts.” One survey found that most Americans thought Iraqi deaths were in the tens of thousands. But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion.

    /..

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/03/16/the-iraq-death-toll-15-years-after-the-us-invasion/

    Unimaginable. The blood never dried.*

    The Blood Never Dried
    John Newsinger
    https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Blood_Never_Dried.html?id=iw-umQEACAAJ&redir_esc=y&hl=en

  • Dave Edwards

    The average person that votes in a “democratic” election is normally left with a choice of two less than perfect candidates. They are under the illusion that the elected government will be honest with them and that within their country the government is the highest level of uncorrupted decision making.

    Having recently read Joseph Plummer’s Tragedy and Hope 101, based on the research of well respected historian Carroll Quigley we can see this is all a sham. Governments are corrupted by donations, lobby groups and secret alliances with rich and powerful operators who have their own agendas and don’t give a dam about a few million deaths along the way as long as their goals are achieved.

    I will quote a few paragraphs from Joseph Plummer’s book.

    “Tragedy and Hope reveals and unimaginably devious political system, skilfully manipulated by a handful of the elite, which is undermining freedom and democracy as we know it.
    The Network believes that the key to controlling the world lies in the application of “secret political and economic influence” and the secret control of “journalistic, education and propaganda agencies.”

    All sounds like a conspiracy theory doesn’t it? But based on their impressive list of global accomplishments such as leading us endlessly into unwanted wars I would say that the evidence speaks for itself.

    The last paragraph in the book is as follows:

    “Reach out to new people regularly and share information that exposes what the Network is and how it operates. When you encounter individuals who either refuse the facts, or who minimise the significance of what’s presented, do not take it personally. If they attack you, do not take it personally. In most cases they are simply defending their world view….”

    The internet and especially forums such as Craig’s have given us a conduit to be able to dig into lies, manipulation and propaganda and with help from others to be able to make our own minds up before being led like sheep into yet another war.

    Tradegy 101 is an eye opening read.

    I sometimes think “they” just want you to be born, spend 22 years in an education system that teaches you nothing about the dark side of the world, take on as much debt as possible, pay your taxes, consume as much as possible and die without rocking their boat. And certainly do not think for yourself, the media will do that for you.

    And I don’t have any agendas; just a concerned working class dad sitting in my Cyprus garden with my two dogs and a guitar.

    • Hmmm

      Don’t have to read a book to know all that. And anyone who calls it a conspiracy theory is completely bamboozled by the system so as to lack any understanding. They are usually the ‘clever’ ones. Well educated and doing well financially – to them it is all working well so it can’t be a scam, can it?

  • Made By Dom

    Any doctors on here?
    I was chatting to a GP about the state of the 2 main victims. Their guess was that both patients are probably on respirators, suffering organ failure. You can keep the heart and lungs going for quite a long time.
    In fact, many patients suffering organ failure are kept alive slightly too long. Usually, its the immediate family that decide how long someone should be kept alive. As tragic as it is, I wonder who would take the decision to switch off their life support?
    The other interesting thing is why keep them in Salisbury? It’s not well known for great intensive care units. Are they too ill to be moved or is it a security risk transporting them to London?

    • Hmmm

      Itu ‘s should all be pretty standard. No reason to transfer at all.
      Any decision to withdraw treatment lies with the doctors – family input is taken on board but the final call is with the medics.

      • SA

        There may have been a reason for transfer. Some units are designated for treatment of certain infectious diseases such as Ebola because they would have better isolation facilities to protect staff. I believe two units in London maybe the Royal Free Hospital and Northwick Park Hospital, but I may be out of date.
        If they have not been transferred it indicates that there is no perceived danger to the staff from exposure to the agent, but this seems to have been established early on as the doctors who first saw them did not suffer ill effects. The only person who did is DS Bailey who it seems was not a first responder but visited the house. It seems that the poison, or precursors were sent to the house but why the Skripals succumbed to the effects of a very quick acting agent several hours after leaving thier home remains a mystery.

      • ZiggyM

        Isn’t there a place up the road that manufacture these kind of agents this couple have been exposed too. Seems, in the interest of health and safety, it would contain a specialist medical unit in case of the odd accident. Maybe they’ve already been transferred there.

  • Ludwig Zeppelin

    Worldwide nuclear weapons are “of a type developed” in United States of America.

  • GF

    It seems that the Kremlin poisoned the Theresa May,Boris Johnson,Gavin Williamsonwith the gas “Durachok” (durachok-very stupid fool).And probably Gavin and Boris were twice poisoned/

    • Jeremy Morfey

      “March 17th – Weapons bound for East Ghouta interecepted. At 42 seconds in the video a gas cannister labelled “Salisbury England.””

      Pains Wessex is indeed a manufacturer of distress flairs, which is what this seems to be – a smoke grenade. A quick search on Google revealed a very similar object in a Canadian museum of an object dating from 1976. https://www.warmuseum.ca/collections/artifact/2036198/ What is fascinating about this footage is that whoever made it misspelt “coloured”, suggesting that it was not made for the home market, and could have been traded anywhere before ending up in the hands of the rebels. It is common knowledge that a fair amount of American munitions was abandoned by the official Iraqi army only to be picked up by Daesh. Trading in weapons out there is probably as commonplace in Syria as trading Dinky toys on Ebay is here.

      Salisbury in Wiltshire, as well as the Head Office of Pains Wessex, is also home to a major training ground for the British military. It may be coincidence that this retired spy and his pretty daughter ended up there.

      • Dave Lawton

        Jeremy Morfey

        “Salisbury in Wiltshire, as well as the Head Office of Pains Wessex, is also home to a major training ground for the British military. It may be coincidence that this retired spy and his pretty daughter ended up there.”
        Jeremy no coincidence as Salisbury is known for its nest of spys and arms dealers.

    • J

      I just spent a few minutes imagining myself being jonathan Freedland and the complex discombobulation he must experience moment to moment, holding the compendium of views he apparently does with the self image he apparently has. I had to go and lie down for awhile.

      • SA

        I feel sorry for you subjecting yourself to this thought torture. Hope you recover soon.

      • frankywiggles

        It’s been a long time since any opinion piece of his was open to readers’ comments. He does not expect to be questioned anymore than he expects May and Johnson to be questioned. (Until they go back being clueless, hopeless baddies).

  • Alan Southall

    This information needs to go public. Theresa May and Boris Johnson are treading very dangerous waters with their deliberate deception . Their lies justify their immediate resignation . Tony Blair was bad , but these two are evil . They do not speak on behalf of the British public .

  • Alan Southall

    May and Johnson should resign for their deliberate deception . Tony Blair was bad over his Iraq involvement , but these two are EVIL.

  • Rhys Jaggar

    Timeline of a diagnosis:

    1) Patients found in some distress on a public park bench on 4/03/2018.

    Were they displaying SLUDGE symptoms (i.e. characteristic of ACE inhibitor poisoning)?

    Did first responders recognise these symptoms and know their clinical implications?

    Be that as it may, the likelihood is that when hospitalised, an A&E consultant would likely make such a diagnosis either directly or following liaisons with poison specialists.

    At some point, it must be assumed that generic ACE inhibitor testing would be done. Research kits to achieve this are standard antibody-based diagnostics taking 1 hour to produce a result. Clinical diagnostics are presumably identical, being the same kit licensed for clinical practice.

    So it would be reasonable to assume that by 06/04/2018, if not earlier, generic detection of ACE inhibitor poisoning had been detected by Porton Down specialists.

    At that point more detailed sample analysis would occur, obtaining column fractions from a chromatogram to identify purified samples. Assuming three rounds of purification, by 10/03/2018, a relatively pure fraction should exist. This would occur at Porton Down under conditions of high containment.

    At that point, detailed chemical analysis may become possible, using various mass spec, chromatography techniques. At that point a chemical formula close to a Novichok may have been identified.

    So there is a reasonable chance that, with all diagnoses and analytics occurring at top speed, within 7 days, a ‘likely identification of poison’ could have been achieved. 10 days would be more conservative, but seven days is not impossible.

    Clearly sample substitution, sample spiking are very easy to achieve. 1 microlitre of poison added to a blood sample takes 2 seconds using an Eppendorf micropipette (basic workhorse tool of every research biochemist in the West). So absolute sample monitoring from initial blood/urine/other samples through all procedures, DNA trping of initial samples against patient hair samples to ensure no sample switching has occurred is necessary. Sealed samples to endure no access for spiking. And no persons working off camera advisable to stop rogue elements tampering with procedure.

    So I think it is within the bounds of reasonableness that UK authorities have identified an ACE inhibitor nerve agent with putative chemical formula within 7-10 days of patient falling ill.

    It also then affords opportunity to identify sites and groupings working in related areas of research.

    What it does not do is identify manufacturing batch, manufacturing site, distribution networks, means of delivery of agent to victims.

    It would also be helpful to carry out DNA analysis on both patients to confirm to the world that they are indeed the Skripals (assuming blood samples from previous medical examinations exist to use as standard references).

    It would not endanger National Security to prove the following to the world:
    1) Timepoint of suspected poisoning diagnosis made and by whom
    2) Timeline of liaison with specialist poisons agency and diagnostic test suite recommended
    3) Time when generalised ACE inhibitor activity detected diagnostically
    4) Time point when purified sample showing ACE inhibitor activity confirmed
    5) Timeline for Mass spec and other data leading to diagnosis of formula of specific poison used

    Obviously, if the agent is not generally known, retaining control of its structure is prudent. The OPCW is the proper channel for further investigations.

    All this does is provide rigour to the diagnostic procedure for identifying a potential Novichok.

    It does not assign guilt anywhere.

    Synthesising the proposed structure and demonstrating biological equivalence with the purified patient sample is the next stage, which might take 1-3 months, assuming bureaucratic hurdles do not delay scientific activity.

    • Kiza

      Ok, you showed a lot of knowledge of the proper procedures. But what about the doctor who provided first aid on the bench? There is no way in this world that she would not have been contaminated if the two persons on the bench spouting bodily fluids all over the place were really poisoned with a CW nerve agent. The rest of the people “poisoned” is probably just the usual mess hysteria, except for the policeman who did not even approach the bench but was somehow poisoned.

    • SA

      But at first the symptoms described were not that of SLUDGE symptoms, rather confusion and possibly coma. In fact the first theory was that they had fentanyl poisoning. Where did you get this from, I would be interested to know because I have not seen any reference to this.
      The first point of call in clinical practice if you suspect an overdose or poisoning is the Toxicology Lab in Barts not Porton Down as far as I know. If the samples were initially sent to Porton Down then there must have been suspicion of what they have been dealing with.

  • Alan Southall

    We hanged traitors in the not too distant past . Why are we harbouring these types ? Treason is a very serious crime against any state . Why waste any money on these people . They live by the sword ……If the UK gov’t don’t like this type of situation , then refuse to allow these ” chancers ” to live here .

  • Steph

    This is a genuine question which I am hoping someone posting here can answer for me. It does not seem to be explained in anything I have read although I feel sure that there must be a quite plausible answer!
    The Guardian, in a ‘what we know so far’ piece, states the following:

    ‘ CCTV footage from a pub caught Sergei Skripal driving his daughter, Yulia, into Salisbury at 1.35pm. He parked his dark red BMW in the Sainsbury’s open-air car park at the Maltings shopping centre at 1.40pm. From there they went to the Mill pub and on to the restaurant Zizzi, arriving there at about 2.20pm and staying until 3.35pm. Emergency services were called to the bench in the Maltings where the Skripals had fallen ill at 4.15pm

    I understand from coverage that Sergei Skripal’s house and car, the Mill pub and Zizzi’s restaurant are all being considered as possible points of contamination. Therefore it follows that investigators consider it possible that the Skripals were exposed to this substance anything up to two and a half hours before succumbing, and had ‘enjoyed’ a drink in a pub and a restuarant meal whilst already contaminated with a ‘weapons-grade nerve gas’. This does not seem to make sense to me. Is there anyone on here who could explain as it is really annoying me!!

    • TomGard

      Afaik investigators are obliged to work on the thesis, that the two components of the binary agent were given or applicated to the Skipals in a way, that they unwittingly would mix them themselves. A wild thesis, that doesn’t fit to the involvement of officer Bailey, but it might not have been technically impossible.

      • Steph

        Thank you TomGard! It does seem wild as you say, but makes sense and satisfactorily resolves my annoyance!!

  • Oldrightie

    The real issue here, for me, is what is the purpose of all this stupidity and antagonistic idiocy towards Russia and Putin? Given the information and the blatant failure to fully permit scrutiny over this poisoning, the likely, or as Boris the Buffoon would say, “highly likely” phrase used is right out of Alistair Campbell’s lexicon of lies and obfuscation.

    I am ashamed of the child sex abuse and ashamed of the useless and unpleasant lack of diplomacy now endemic across the UK political system. None of which I accept in my name or that of my culture and history.

    • Roman_D

      “The real issue here, for me, is what is the purpose of all this stupidity and antagonistic idiocy towards Russia and Putin?”

      What ‘s your opinion on this version – the West while conquering the East has stumbled on Russia?

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