Some Dead Children Count More Than Others 530


The ever excellent Campaign Against the Arms Trade is back in the English High Court again today in its continuing attempts to ban arms sales to Saudi Arabia. It is against UK law to sell arms to a country which is likely to use them in breach of international humanitarian law, and that Saudi Arabia consistently and regularly uses British weapons to bomb schools, hospitals and civilians is indisputable.

Unfortunately the courts are an instrument of power and control for the 1%, not an impartial resort for justice, so I fear CAAT will not succeed despite the fact their case is undeniably correct.

Part of the British Government’s defence is the close military support it gives to Saudi Arabia, which it claims minimises civilian deaths (it plainly does no such thing). Thousands of children have died in the Yemeni war, most killed by the Saudis and their allies. These war crimes have been documented by the United Nations despite concerted UK and US diplomacy at the UN aimed at downplaying the Saudi crimes. Cluster bombs, white phosphorous and other illegal weapons have frequently been used.

Yemeni dead children very seldom make in into the mainstream media, whereas Syrian children do. But not all Syrian children – those children killed by the jihadist head-choppers the West and its Saudi allies have armed, funded and “advised” do not make the corporate and state media either. Only children allegedly – and the word needs repeating, allegedly – gassed by the Syrian armed forces are apparently worth our attention.

If we really attack because we care about the children, we would be attacking Saudi Arabia to halt its atrocities in Yemen. Instead we are allying with Saudi Arabia – the child killers, UK military support to whom is today being stressed in the High Court – to attack Syria.

Anybody who believes this is anything to do with “humanitarian intervention” is a complete fool.


530 thoughts on “Some Dead Children Count More Than Others

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  • Sharp Ears

    Komedy Kuts Kontinued

    The latest ‘story’ comes from GCHQ’s Mark Sedwill, Knight of this Realm – , The Russians have a specialized division for the application of nerve agents to door handles

    Russia has been spying on Skripals for five years, security adviser
    A program set up in Russia in the 2000s trained personnel from “special units” in the use of chemical warfare agents, he said, including investigating how nerve agents could be administered through door handles. In an analysis of samples taken from the home of the Skripals, the highest concentrations of ..
    1 hr ago.
    https://www.mix96.co.uk/news/national/2553247/russia-have-been-spying-on-skripals-for-five-years-security-adviser-says/

    and

    Daniel Sandford
    (@BBCDanielS)
    No 10 has released a letter from National Security Advisor Mark Sedwill to NATO Secretary-General. It spells out more details of intelligence pointing to Russia in the Salisbury case. Includes suggestion that Russia was specifically looking at putting nerve agents on door handles pic.twitter.com/hd7Yu4z…3 hours ago · Twitter

    and

    Deborah Haynes (The Times)
    (@haynesdeborah)
    BREAK – Russia began programme in 2000s to test ways of assassination with chemical weapons & trained “special units” in methods that included putting nerve agent on door handles. Highest concentration of #novichok in #Skripal case was on door handle – @marksedwill says 1/2 3 hours ago · Twitter

    All the bells are chiming in unison.

    • Murray Johnson

      Is it the same door handle technique as used in the 1997 film The Jackal?
      Had Bruce Willis had prior access to this manual?
      We need to know.

      • PhatBastard

        Obviously not seeing as he managed to kill his victim very very quickly. Mind you the victim was a Russian thug…

  • Michael McNulty

    The Americans aren’t including the 500,000 Iraqi children who died due to their sanctions because they said that was worth it. And now according to Yahoo News UK there’s another dossier, this time about Russia smearing poison on door handles. I wonder if it says how many door handles can be smeared in 45 minutes?

    • Andrew Jenkinson

      UK security forces claim Russia tested nerve agents on door handles. If they did, they would have discovered that it is ineffective ( the Skripals did not die). On the other hand, others knowing about the Russian tests (but not, perhaps knowing the result) could have applied a nerve agent to the Skripals’ door knob to implicate Russia.
      Does anyone really believe that the Russians would use a method which they knew would not work and knew would implicate them when there are dozens of ways Sergei Skripal could have been killed in his own home without involving his daughter. It could easily have been made to look like the result of a robbery or a tragic accident with no connection back to Russia. There is also the question of a motive. There are any number of Theresa May supporters who would have motives.

  • Monster

    Not much news about why France is poking its grand nez into the conflict. It is currently bombing Syria’s oil fields and Raqqa with the hope of restoring the grande old days of Total governance. However M Micron (sorry to use the diminutive but he’s not on anyone’s radar) has problems at home and would like a distraction from railway strikes and immigrants as well as to showcase the ageing Rafale planes. Alas India recently cancelled an $8bn contract for them. Add this to the struggling Airbus sales and likely US trade tariffs and his popularity will go into the basement.

    • Republicofscotland

      Not to worry because we’re going in gung ho to Syria on a false pretence, one similar to Iraq.

      As White House spokesperson generals often say civilian casualties are a fact of war, a kind of get out clause statement, pre-war that allows indiscriminate bloodshed, and it also gives the US military a chance to try out its new toys, such as lasering folk or microwaving them etc.

      Once we’ve had our fill of bloodshed and Assad’s bloody corpse is paraded by the rebels on sky tv. Only then can thoughts turn to the poor Syrian’s who’ve suffered greatly under Assad’s reign.

      However nothing meaningful can be done until Halliburton et al has stripped Syria of its assets and minerals.

    • Hatuey

      If Macron was against hitting Syria, there would be people arguing that it is because he has enough on his plate with all those internal problems that you mention to deal with.

      That should mean we can dismiss all of that stuff and consider the possibility that he really does have evidence and believes in the merits of hitting Assad.

      It wasn’t so long ago that people on this website were celebrating Macron’s victory over the right in the last French elections. Those people are hard to find today.

      • Republicofscotland

        Oh Macron’s up for bombing Syria alright, even more so since the Saudi’s swung into town. The removal of Assad a Alawatie Shia, is high on the agenda of the Saudi regime, and to keep Macron sweet and onside the Saudi’s are to invest in Le Hexagon big time.

        • Hatuey

          So you are saying that all of those poor, confused, souls who cheered for Macron in the elections were wrong. Were you one of them?

      • Andrew Jenkinson

        As I understand it there is no plan to kill Assad, only yet more Syrian civilians and soldiers who had no part in any supposed gas attack. What is the logic of US killing Syrians even if Assad had killed civilians? Every person we kill has friends and relatives who will in all probability want to kill us in revenge. Is that sensible?

    • Laguerre

      A few francophobic slurs is not really worth it, unless you know something about France and they can be accurate. The French economy is doing well, compared to Britain’s confusion. Macron is just continuing ancient French policy with respect to the Middle East, which he inherited from his predecessors..

      • Republicofscotland

        Such as French North Africa, Alexander Dumas, author of The Count of Monte Cristol, and The Three Musketeers, said that the potent alcoholic beverage absinthe, had killed more French soldiers in North Africa than Arab bullets.

        Though the French unemployment rate stands around 9.2% circa Dec 2017, and Macorn doesn’t have his troubles to seek, on French Labour laws.

        Often countries go to war to turn heads away from the poor state of there domestic economy.

        • Sharp Ears

          He made $3m from 2009-13 when he worked for Rothschilds. He oversaw the deal when Siemens IT division was acquired by Atos. Atos is, of course, the scourge of those unfortunate people on benefits in this country,’clients’ of the DWP originally under IDS’s control and now being run by the hard hearted motormouth McVey.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Macron

          • Republicofscotland

            A neoliberal, and here I was thinking that France was mainly a soicialst republic, time to storm the bastille again me thinks.

            Mind you the French people didn’t really have a alternative in the dreaded Le Pen, or in the US Trump or Clinton. Where the lesser of two evils doesn’t apply.

            Political ploy, put up a odious character to run for office, guarantee their victory by putting up an even worse character as the alternative.

      • giyane

        Laguerre

        Macron’s policy on Turkish national hatred of the Kurds is pottier than May’s Russophobia.
        Kurds have lived in Turkey for 4000 years so yes, ancient history indeed.

      • Vivian O'Blivion

        The ultra-short video put out by the French foreign ministry claiming to show proof that the Syrian government was responsible for the attack, offers no proof at all.

        Meanwhile a French judge has determined that the case against an “anarchist cell” was nothing but a put up job by Nicolas Sarkozy to create an enemy within.

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/13/tarnac-nine-leftwing-anarchist-terror-cell-fiction-france

        The article goes on to state that the supposed cell was “infuriated by a former British police spy”. He can’t have been very “former”!
        Does anyone at the Guardian proof this stuff before they out it out?

        • bj

          That video with the ‘proof’ is utter, ugly, nationalistic, chauvinistic, deceitful war mongering propaganda.
          Its aim is to kill innocents, to prop up the image and stature of a french politician-of-the-day, i.c. Macron.
          Macron is an ugly war criminal by intent. He should be sitting in jail.

      • Akos Horvath

        Love a lot of things about France, but your colonial past is not one of them. France, as one of the two main traditional torturers of the planet along with the UK, should be banned for a few hundred years from poking around any of its former colonies. With your record in Haiti, Indochina, Algeria you should be repenting rather than planning another criminal act of violence. I also note that the state terrorist Mitterrand (of Rainbow Warrior fame) is still regarded as a serious politician rather than the terrorist he was. You have some learning to do before you can lecture people in the Middle East.

    • Tony_0pmoc

      Monster,

      You mean The French have started first? Have you got any evidence for this?

      I know what I would do if I was an RAF pilot (though it would not be politically correct.)

      Tony

    • Ingwe

      As only the morally challenged UK, France and Germany (amongst the significant European states) seem to be supporting the US charge to war, I wonder whether the gun-toting Americans have changed their view of the French as ‘cheese eating surrender monkeys’?

      Our lickspittle subservience to the USA can always be relied on. The Germans are somewhat less than luke warm but Macron is up for a fight at least until French soldiers start coming back in zinc coffins. Interesting the lengths some politicians will go to for their own survival.

      • Stu

        Macron isn’t really French.

        He is the property of international capital. He does the bidding of the globalists.

  • Republicofscotland

    According to a ER worker, who can be seen in the video of people being hosed down with water. There was no chemical attack, only the bombing of a building which collapsed causing choking smoke, of which the treatment of the people can be seen.

    The ER worker claims that some one shouted it was a gas attack, and panic set in and the hosing down become frantic however the ER worker added no one exhibited any signs of a chemical attack.

    • Murray Johnson

      Anyone who’s ever taken children to a slightly over chlorinated swimming pool can see that the children in that video are not suffering the effects of exposure to the gas. It’s plain to anyone seeing it that it’s not what it purports to be.I’m still shocked by the BBC’s use of it with accompanying mournful wailing music the other morning. Desperate stuff.

      • Republicofscotland

        Would I be wrong in saying that it was the White Helmets that reported it as a gas attack? I can’t quite recall if it was or not.

        • Vivian O'Blivion

          Not insane and you appear to have misread the first sentence and omitted the “no” in “no poof”.
          The British and French governments propaganda is very thin gruel indeed.

    • David Bailey

      I am highly suspicious of a video shown repeatedly on the BBC, in which young men are seen dashing around in a dark cloud – supposedly chlorine. From my experience of chlorine, as a former chemist, I’d say one whiff of the stuff would bring anyone to their knees gasping and coughing for air. Either the cloud is actually smoke, or if it is chlorine (the video is in black and white so you can’t see if it is yellow-green) nobody would be running around without a gas mask.

      • G.Bng

        The Russian ambassador today in his press conference clearly stated that there are no external images of the Dhouma attack and that the image, or maybe he said images or video, shown on TV, I think he said by Sky, with people rushing around in a cloud were from a chemical attack last year that was proven to be by the jihadies in Aleppo. The journalist he was talking to presumably from the channel he referred to didn’t contradict him.

      • Michael McNulty

        As a young labourer in the early-80s we had to pass a breath-test to be allowed on-site at Laportes near Immingham, North Lincs. I think it produced fertilzers and but before being allowed on site we were told that if the alarm sounded we were to hold the breath we had in our lungs – not to take another breath thereafter because that could be fatal – and that a major chlorine leak would kill anybody who breathed it in. We knew that water sprayed allover us wouldn’t have meant mean anything. And I just an oik.

        • Michael McNulty

          At that time if an alarm went off at Laportes, and because of course people can’t hold their breath forever, they had various places dotted around the site (if I remember this correctly they looked just like bus stops), where oxygen was provided. I guess it must have been in tanks.

  • Tony M

    Well I thought I would, though I’m sure they need no help, suggest a UK target list for Russian and Chinese thermonuclear weapons.

    1 London obviously, the head of the beast.
    2 Faslane and the Clyde, catching probably at least three out of four nuclear-armed submarines having their Windows re-sprayed.
    3 North-East England, where missiles and warheads abound and come together.
    4 North-West England, including Sellafield, for synergistic bonus extra contamination thrown in for free.
    5 Porton Down for similar reasons as number 4.

    that should take care of all things and all people in short order, but further suggestions are welcomed.

    • Mark Russell

      There’s a cave on the northwest facing cliff of Sron Ulladale on Harris which can be reached after an easy scramble. It penetrates about 75m into Lewesian Gneiss so providing you’re tucked up at the back, you should be able to enjoy the show in relative safety – for a while. Either that or a subterranean existence under Inchnadamph or in Mud Hall near Gaping Ghyll in the Yorkshire Dales, which might be fun for a bit….

      Either that – the top of Ben Nevis, Snowdon or Scafell – and a few good bottles of whisky.

      • Republicofscotland

        Sawney Bean’s cave might be a better place to hide out, it was for him and 48 of his incestuous clan for 25 years. It’s better known as Bennane Cave.

        • Mark Russell

          I know, but there are limits to what one might care to endure. He probably has a following that’s already in residence..

          Ossian’s Cave on Aonach Dhu would be another option, if it wasn’t over-run with tourists.

    • Tony_0pmoc

      Tony M. I do have some better suggestions, but I don’t want to get arrested. Tony

  • Ralph Ryder

    For decades people in the UK have thought the deaths of children overseas is nothing to get too excited about. The Americans invented the term ‘collateral damage to hide the reality that these were laughing happy, much loved children,
    The now complete indifference exhibited towards the welfare and safety of children by western politicians is nothing short of shameful. Mankind is one of a few species that kills its young with ease and guilt free. Madeline Albrights statement: “We think it was worth it” when asked about the deaths of 500,000 (half a million) young Iraqi children shows us humanity is finished. Most of us look towards the females of our species to be caring and loving towards children, (even a mouse will defend her babies the death) – yet here we see a woman expressing no real concern over the killing of huge numbers of innocent children. Theresa May has said she would push the nuclear button and kill 100,000 innocent souls (one presumes this is only a tiny bomb by todays standard) which of course would include thousands of children. Look at the United States female mouthpiece at the UN and you will witness a woman calling for the slaughter of anyone who speaks out, however slightly and in whatever context, against the Zionists regime illegally occupying Palestine. This is a dangerous, mental sickness being exhibited by these women of the western and middle eastern governments. May the good people of the world help to push some resemblance of sanity to the situation faced by these children – via the voting booth would be best and getting decent sane people into office.

    • Hatuey

      I see. Women are to he held to a different standard than men in politics.

      Albright didn’t say that, by the way. She used words that were similar but to repeat them would be to take them out of context. It’s worth remembering that she was Clinton’s Sec. of State and their application of sanctions was widely accepted as the more humane and responsible approach to Iraq than invading.

      I don’t think it helps anyone to glibly recite lists of atrocities like this on the basis that it gives you some sort of moral high ground or credibility.

        • Hatuey

          Get your facts right — she was asked if she thought it was a price worth paying and she said it was a very hard choice but that she thought the price was worth it in comparison to the other options on the table (i.e. invasion which as we all know has resulted in more deaths).

          The context is that hawks in Washington and elsewhere were pressing Clinton to step up US opposition to Iraq and possibly invade. Sanctions at that time were accepted as the more responsible and less destructive means to exert pressure on Saddam.

          In moral terms, of course, there is a big difference between the indirect unintended consequences of action in pursuit of a noble goal and the deliberate gassing and annihilation of people as a means to an end or as an end in itself.

          I know everyone is bent towards putting the US and the west in the worst light possible on these things but given what we know about the human and infrastructural costs of the invasion that has since taken place, we can see that history has actually vindicated Albright and Clinton in their view that sanctions were the lesser of two evils.

        • Christine

          Yes it’s time for a big shake up and a change of hearts and minds and women in politics could indeed be instrumental in that process. It’s called evolution. After all men on their own,in politics have made a mess of the world! But women cannot and must not behave the same as men , just to ” get in on the act”. They must be different and insist on different values. Values that benefit humanity. Men also can promote these values but we cannot have the same ego fuelled,money grabbing,power crazed types we have been used to! Need I go on?

          • Hatuey

            Christine, go on by all means but I fear that no amount of going on will help you convert what is essentially a male chauvinist argument.

      • N_

        I would say that someone who opposes murdering hundreds of thousands of children for profit is indeed on morally higher ground and more righteous than someone who orders, enables, advocates or praises it. Or is every opinion about it equally valid because there’s no truth any more?

      • Sharp Ears

        Defending the indefensible there Hatuey. Mustn’t make a habit of it!

        Ref Albright, aka Marie Korbelova from Czechoslovakia.. She converted to Catholicism (handy that) and married money in the shape of Joseph Albright. He pushed off and remarried. Not surprised. She is a wicked woman. Pure evil was personified when she combined with Zbigniew Brzezinski.

        ‘.On May 12, 1996, Albright defended UN sanctions against Iraq on a 60 Minutes segment in which Lesley Stahl asked her “We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?” and Albright replied, “We think the price is worth it.”‘

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeleine_Albright

        ‘No child shall be harmed’.

        • Hatuey

          I have responded to this above. The decision to impose sanctions on Iraq wasn’t just the United State’s decision. It was supported at the level of the UN and beyond by many countries as the most acceptable and responsible way to oppose Saddam.

          When GW Bush finally invaded, the argument was not only vindicated but was repeated by many on the left in particular. They argued, correctly, that invasion wasn’t necessary as the sanctions were working. They also argued, correctly, that invading would have been much more damaging and destructive.

          • Bayard

            “It was supported at the level of the UN and beyond by many countries as the most acceptable and responsible way to oppose Saddam.”

            Opposition to Saddam is taken as a given. So what Madeline Allbright was saying was that the deaths of 500,000 children was a price worth paying to oppose Saddam, because the alternative method was worse. How about not opposing Saddam? How many children would have died then? You appear to be defending her by saying “she’s a monster, but not as big a monster as you are making her out to be”.
            Would you really be grateful to someone who maimed you for life on the grounds that he didn’t kill you when he had the opportunity?

  • N_

    An understanding that the Douma attack was almost certainly a staged provocation

    * is being associated with the far right and in particular with anti-Semitism

    (for instance in the Guardian – so given what is being done to the Labour party, don’t expect there to be anything other than a massive majority for war if the Commons ever gets to vote on it; indeed this may well be the REASON for the job that’s being done on the Labour party)

    * is likely to be associated with the classic accusation of “denial”

    (“You deny who we say did it? Then you deny it happened!” The meanings of “faked” and “staged” come together in the contemporary soft-as-mush mind, which is happy to ignore the possibility that actual events can be staged. This type of association is already a common technique used to advance the rulers’ line about climate change, where disagreement with the patently obviously false idea that human activity is causing climate change is associated with denial that the climate is changing.)

    * is NOT likely to be helped by much mention of the fact that the Russian government – in the person of the army’s chief of staff, Valery Gerasimov – PREDICTED last month that such a staged attack would occur.

    • _

      Including a complete shutdown of debate threads in the Guardian. And parallel censorship of any criticism, even indirect and measured, of Israeli government policy on a thread concerning Israeli government policy. (Immediately closed after my comment was deleted.) People who don’t believe this happens should test it for themselves. The Guardian is not an independent journal and it seems to me increasingly likely that it is being government controlled in various ways. Sinister.

      • Bayard

        I don’t think that the Graun is controlled by the govt directly. It is the Blairites’ organ, and, given that the Blairites speak and act like red Tories, there is much alignment of interests.

      • Tom

        You’re right. The Guardian has become a joke. They’re so pro-war they’re frightened of even allowing their readers to debate it. Plus, it seems merely using the word ‘Israel’ alongside other nations triggers a comment’s removal.
        How can they justify not allowing British readers to debate a possible war?

        • Thomas_Stockmann

          Please see my post on page 4 of this thread for the way in which the live blog is being used as a platform for unidentified opposition activists.

  • John Goss

    “Anybody who believes this is anything to do with “humanitarian intervention” is a complete fool.”

    And they do not need to wear a silly hat to prove it! Worse still are those fools, like Boris Johnson and Theresa May, who are pawns in the hands of the US policy makers. They are playing the fool with their false flags (Skripals in UK and western-funded White Helmets in Syria).

    If, as might be expected, this Friday 13th April an attack is launched on Syria nobody knows what will happen or to what it will lead. The UK is in deep guano as it is with the Skripal affair and Russia has today announced that the alleged chemical attack was staged with UK involvement.

    • Republicofscotland

      “And they do not need to wear a silly hat to prove it! Worse still are those fools, like Boris Johnson and Theresa May, who are pawns in the hands of the US policy makers.”

      Well John what do you expect, if we want a good post EU/Brexit deal with the US, such as GM crops or antibiotic chlorine pumped full foods, then we need to appease the orange man child known as Trump with regards to Syria.

    • Paul

      Mr. Goss,
      As you say, nobody can plausibly claim knowledge of where this may lead. But I will say that, in light of Britain’s conduct, current and recent, toward Russia, if a shooting match starts and Russia returns fire against F/UK/US, to refrain from targeting a British surface ship, submarine or military base in Cyprus may require an almost superhuman discipline.

      • Paul

        Just to be clear–
        By this I mean to point out that the May government’s comportment in the Skripal affair may move British forces, already in harm’s way, to the top of the list of targets for retaliation.

      • Phil Espin

        I think your spot on Paul. It will be much easier for Putin to kick the poodle rather than the pit bull. If UK attacks Russians, even inadvertently, our navy vessels may bear witness to some of Russia’s new weaponry. May is asking for a smack in the teeth. I hope there will be a parliamentary debate on Monday and Corbyn makes this point. May is genuinely undermining our security. If American vessels are attacked there is a real risk of escalation by the nutters in charge there. UK or France, not so much, lots of sympathy but we’ll take one for the team. The government will fall and Putin will have had a real influence on the next UK election!

  • Crispa

    Yes, I have just read the letter of the National Security Adviser, Sir Mark Sedwell to no less than NATO, releasing “classified information” (that has been doing the rounds for days) with the central “revelation” that the Russians have been have been busy practising smearing door handles with novichock for a long time for assassination purposes – it would seem they need more practise! If this is the best that the government has to offer it is surely reaching a new low in the art of dodgy dossier production.

    • N_

      The deranged Jens Stoltenberg, together with many other members of the elite in Norway, is a Steinerite. Those loonies’ understanding of history is based on the destinies of “races” in different epochs and on reincarnation. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s mainly about middle class parents favouring nice wooden toys and planting vegetables.

    • _

      That release actually struck me as a sign of a certain desperation. As you said, the information was already ‘known’ for some time, thanks to government ‘briefing’ of its task force of amenable journalists. The only addition would seem to be the ‘gravitas’ of adding a name and title to the information. It allowed compliant media outlets like the Telegraph and Guardian to splash the ‘revelation’, again, presumably to feed the news cycle in preparation for a Syria attack, if May feels she can get away with it.

  • Sharp Ears

    She finished gabbing. Karen Pierce, our ridiculous woman in the UN (wearing a headband today), started off with her speech and then the line went down. Ha! That rather flummoxed the newsreader, Ben Brown. She was not heard from again. 😉

    Brown is infamous for his grilling of Jody McIntyre who was thrown on to the road from his wheelchair at the time of the London student riots in 2010.

    Anger grows over ‘shameful’ BBC interview with disabled protester
    https://www.the-latest.com/anger-grows-over-shameful-bbc-interview-disabled-protester

    The BBC later apologized after over 500 complaints went in. Another protester, Alfie Meadows, ended up in hospital with an injury, having been struck on the head by the police.

    • Republicofscotland

      “She finished gabbing. Karen Pierce, our ridiculous woman in the UN (wearing a headband today), ”

      I know I shouldn’t but she reminds me of Dick Emery, dressed as a woman (character on his show) with a huge boa scarf around her neck. I half expect her to shout out to Lavrov, “Oh, You are awful but I like you.”

  • Hatuey

    In Defense of Mother Russia

    Anyone who has studied history and foreign relations over the last 70 or so years will be familiar with the claim that Russia (the Soviet Union) only got embroiled in wars to protect its borders. The left in the west used this argument to defend and justify Russian aggression in a number of places like Hungary, Afghanistan and, more recently, Ukraine and Crimea.

    The argument was hard to refute and was typically bolstered by emotional references to “traditional invasion routes” in Eastern Europe, suffering at the hands of the Nazis, The Great Game, and self defense (Just War Theory). And, sure enough, all of the theatres of conflict that involved Russian/Soviet troops actually fighting were right on their borders, giving further credence to the case.

    But Syria is not on the border of Russia. The Defense of Mother Russia argument is nowhere to be seen and has been replaced by something very different.

    The new justification goes something like this: America and The West are bastards so don’t point the finger at Russia.

    Even if we accept the central assumption of this new argument, it doesn’t logically follow that Russia can not be condemned for sticking its nose into the finely balanced affairs of the Middle East. It’s a fake argument for a fake news world. And it’s dangerous.

    • Republicofscotland

      Hautey.

      Well Syria has been a long term ally of Russia, for at least 40 years, Assad’s father learned to fly fighter jets in the Soviet Union.

      The Syrian government also allowed the Soviet Union to build a resupply station at the port of Tartus, which is now Russia’s sole remaining naval base in the Middle East and on the Mediterranean sea.

      The US Britain and France have their ME allies as well, but you don’t see Russia attempting to bomb them or regime change them under false pretences.

      • Hatuey

        Exactly my point, for the last several decades Russia has refrained from getting embroiled in wars beyond its borders. Having a base isn’t the same as being involved in a conflict. Many countries peacefully have bases all around the world.
        But in Syria today we have Russian troops, planes, tanks, and all sorts engaged in a conflict.

        • _

          Well known Russian operative General Wesley Clark, as you may know, revealed that the original neo-con plan after Afghanistan and just prior to Iraq was to invade 7 countries in 5 years, including Syria and with Iran as the final conquest. Maybe you could reflect for a moment on what kind of peace the world could expect had that plan come to fruition. And that is still, clearly, a war aim for some. Russia clearly has a geopolitical interest in these countries not falling under the sway of jihadist groups or caliphates, which seems to be the one constant in western policy.

          Just out of interest, how close do you think the US border is to Syria? Or anywhere else in the Middle East?

          • Radar O'Reilly

            well know Russian operative Roland Dumas (French Foreign Relations Minister 1984 – 1986, Foreign Minister 1988 – 1993, President of the French consitutional Conseil 1995 – 2000, who risked his life as supplier of small arms to the French Resistance during the second world war, and is a current defender of Palestinian rights) was invited by THE BRITISH to join in the overthrow of the legitimate syrian government in 2009, two full years before that particular ‘Arab Spring’ kicked-off “spontaneously” in 2011, according to an interview on French TV, La Chaîne parlementaire (LCP). M. Dumas later gave an interview to a middle-east broadcaster, in 2013, where he went further.

            https://nsnbc.me/2013/07/03/former-french-foreign-minister-dumas-blows-the-whistle-on-western-war/

            He stressed, that the West´s policies in such issues are not policies of peace but rather of war, and that he personally is against war and supports the path that leads to peace.

            Asked about his evaluation of the Syrian opposition, Dumas said, that the opposition is multifaceted, and that countries like Qatar and Saudi-Arabia are involved in the fighting against the legitimate government in Syria. Dumas added: “A peaceful solution isn’t achieved by letting people fight,” and stressed that the shipment of weapons to the opposition would not solve the problems in Syria.

            Dumas noticed, that the armed forces of the legitimate government of Syria are reclaiming areas which have formerly been seized by the gunmen and described it as “a good sign“. . . .

            On allegations about chemical weapons use, Robert Dumas said, that such allegations are very dangerous, as they bring to mind the discussions, which took place about Iraq in the past, when the United States alleged that Iraq possessed chemical weapons but non were found.

            He stressed, that in legal terms, evidence is procured through judicial channels, not through journalists carrying small bottles which they claim they procured in Syria. Those individuals, he added, are not trustworthy. Dumas continued, stating that it is best to have the UN send impartial and reliable experts to look into such matters. Both the Syrian government as well as Russia, have repeatedly stressed the demand, that each and every single incident of chemical weapons use in Syria must be investigated by an independent, expert commission.

          • Hatuey

            For historical reasons, the US is the defacto world policeman and it is for those reasons that it has bases and military assets all over the world. This isn’t an ideal situation for anyone, especially the parents of American servicemen and women.

            Of course, there was a plan in the late 40s and 50s to give the UN the teeth it might need to play the part of global policeman but the plan was shot down by short-sighted politicians in the US. That was regrettable but we what we have now has to be better than the anarchy and chaos that would exist if there was no policeman at all.

            People might consider that the US accounted for something like 51% of global GDP in 1945. It was the US that ended the wars in 1945, with its own blood. It was the US that defined and implemented the post-War world which has served many so well and resulted in the longest period of sustained peace in world history.

            And it was the US that reconstructed Europe and Asia and threw its weight behind promoting growth, trade, and reducing barriers to trade (understood to have been important in causing WWII).

            If there’s a country out there that is better qualified to be world policeman, I’d like to hear about it.

        • Bayard

          There’s not much point in being allied to a country if they don’t come to your aid when you are attacked.
          “Exactly my point, for the last several decades Russia has refrained from getting embroiled in wars”
          Yes, but the US and the UK haven’t become “embroiled in wars” in the Middle East, they’ve actively started them. Russia hasn’t started any.
          So, if another country attacked Cyprus and Cyprus requested military aid, what would you expect the UK to do? Back up its ally? Keep its troops in their bases and do nothing? Or quickly withdraw all military personnel from Cyprus and leave it to its fate?

          • Hatuey

            Is there a non-hypothetical example we can discuss?

            The relative stability of the Middle East was destroyed when Iraq invaded Kuwait. I can’t think of one conflict the British started there in the last 90 years.

          • Bayard

            Gulf War II? I did say “The US and the UK” i.e together and it’s a bit strained to claim that Gulf War II was a continuation of Gulf War I and therefore started by Iraq.

    • nevermind

      Russia has had a Mediterranian port, naval base and a runway since the 1950’s in Syria and it has stated many times that it is going to stay as long as it is welcome.

      To whine about it now, when it was an accepted fact for a very long time, is rather sad, like pulling a stale bun out of a drawer.
      I don’t know what deliberations are needed to bring it over to some people here that they/we are not speaking for Syria, that our usurped foreign relations have nothing to do with Russia, or their desire to re kindle the empire.

  • Sharp Ears

    Professor Sachs here speaking great sense on a US talk show,. He gives the historical perspective.on Syria and reminds us of his warnings.
    12 Apr 2018
    Sachs explains the American tragedy of the Syrian civil war and why the only answer now is to get out and negotiate an end to the war.

    Admiral Stavridis US Navy Ret’d supports a ‘strike’. He spoke of the ‘fatigue; being experienced about Syria. Not as bad as being bombed and killed Admiral.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vwKk4pADCw 5.36

  • Blair Paterson

    To me this old saying sums it all up it was said in the days when queer meant odd not gay here goes then Everyone in the whole wide world is queer except for you and me and even thou at times are strange

  • Paul

    Would anyone who might have contact with Russian foreign-service spokespersons convey to them the suggestion that the word “provocation” as they repeatedly use it, simply does not carry the hoped-for associations for most native English speakers.

    Although, with a bit of effort, we might associate the term with the French “agent provocateur,” the term “provocation” is too general and too closely associated with a garden-variety belligerence to convey what they actually mean.

    Now I must admit that other than the term “false flag,” I can think of no other term that readily conveys this. This may be partly owing to the impoverishment of my own vocabulary, or to the impoverishment of the English-speaking world’s current political lexicon, but in either event I remain confident that “provocation” is not doing the work that the Russians intend.

    • Paul

      I know this sort of naked censorship happens, but it is still a bit staggering to actually see it.

    • Aslangeo

      I think that the media are totally shameless, there are few dissenting voices and those are being shut down. As a natural skeptic I would wish to hear and the judge all view points. These dumbos are actually damaging their narrative but shutting down debate. Hopefully the public will pay back the politicians at election time, assuming we survive long enough to have any elections in the future. In the meantime Labour activists should deselect any MP who supports the rush to war

    • Aslangeo

      Just shows the contrast between reasonable educated people and the mindless harridans representing the Anglos, makes me proud of my Russian grandparents, and ashamed of my British ancestors

  • Tony M

    To my my list of automatic targets and request for additions/enhancements and tweaks, I should of course have added Cheltenham/GCHQ.
    Possibly where ‘Hatuey’ is commenting from on piece-rates, if not from Stolen-land itself.

  • quasi_verbatim

    So, after fitting up the Russkies with doorknobs and telling the Scandinavian useful idiot to spread the word our Deep State found time to pressurise the White Helmets into justifying their salaries and rolling out the Douma False Flag/Fake News without further delay.

    Brexit negotiations must be really, really disastrous to require this amount of attention distraction.

  • Paul

    A technical question:
    Would it be possible to de-activate or remove a missile’s warheads, and just have it strike a ship with the kinetic force of Mach X, and the explosive force of the remaining fuel??

    I ask this because it would accomplish two objectives: 1) to demonstrate the capacity and also the willingness not only to target launch platforms, but to strike them (thus following through on Gerasimov’s warning); 2) it would do so without necessarily sinking the ship, and ideally without causing any loss of life at all, thus avoiding the martyrdom of the USS Donald Duck’s crew (to cite one hypothetical).

    This might spare many children, including among those that “count.” The children of British naval officers, for example.

  • mark golding

    Yemen is the site of the world’s most devastating humanitarian crisis while Syria remains a collapsed country; over 400,000 people have been killed and more than 5 million have fled the country, Iraq has been ravaged by the world’s most brutal terrorist group in modern history. And PM May wants more war? I ask is PM May human or mutant?

    • Republicofscotland

      Mark.

      You missed out Libya now a war torn failed state, which we bombed into submission, its infrastructure now looks like something out of a post-apocalyptic computer game.

      Our goal was to bring democracy and remove a evil tyrant who was killing his people, does that ring any bells? Ah yes Syria.

        • Republicofscotland

          You’re welcome Mark.

          Meanwhile as austerity cuts deep in the UK, and the low wage economy stagnates at the thought of Brexit, bear in mind war doesn’t come cheap. A&E’s are bursting at the seems and knife crime in London is out of control, with fewer police officers at hand.

          “A 6 hour tornado mission costs roughly £210k. Loaded with 4 paveway bombs at £22k each and 2 brimstone missiles at £105k each for a total of £298k. That’s £508k per mission. Or: 20 paramedics, 20 police officers, 20 teachers, 19 nurses, 18 firefighters or 18 junior doctors.”

          https://mobile.twitter.com/liamyoung/status/984547508264239104

          • Bayard

            OTOH, the vast majority of that £508K has already been spent. You don’t get your money back on bombs if you don’t use them. Given that the personnel have to be paid whatever they do, the only extra cost of flying a mission is the cost of the fuel.
            Sure, it would have been better if we hadn’t spent nearly half a million on planes and munitions, but we have and we will never see that money again.

          • Phil Espin

            No Bayard, if you use them you have to replace them. The price has gone up and the mic have depleted our wallet even further. Which may well be the real point of the exercise.

          • Bayard

            “No Bayard, if you use them you have to replace them.”
            Ah, so although it was wrong to buy them in the first place, and would have been better to have spent that money on schools ‘n’ hospitals, now that the government has bought the bombs, it must replace them if it uses them. Quoi?

    • Tony_0pmoc

      mark golding,

      I am almost certain PM May is human, though a very serious case of deep brainwashing. I have always had an interest in psychology and related subjects since physics and maths at university. They insisted we also had to study something almost completely unrelated, and then two private companies insisted, I go on these leadership courses (I am convinced derivatives of the Tavistock Institute) (London Bus Bombing location). I skipped the final course. I saw its effect on others (mind destruction and rebuild).

      These books may explain it

      “Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes ”

      “Brainwashing: The Science of Thought Control”

      “The Lucifer Effect: How Good People Turn Evil”

      but so far I have found them too depressing to read.

      A gentle easy to read introduction is the

      “The Sociopath Next Door” , though some people may find even that somewhat corrupting of their soul, and I prefer to stay innocent.

      However, unless we have some understanding of these techniques, we have no defence from them, which are used on us on a daily basis, if we switch on the TV, or read a newspaper.

      Tony

  • Casual Observer

    I see the Russian Foreign Minister is now saying he has ‘Irrefutable” proof that the Syria gas attack hoax was organised by the UK :O

    Seems unlikely that such a high level figure would go out on limb, unless he had something to back up the claims ?

    Maybe the talk of SAS blokes being in Russian hands is not so fanciful after all. No doubt if the Russians do have some bodys who shouldn’t have been there, we’ll see a replay of the Khrushchev/Gary Powers incident, with the Russians giving HMG enough opportunity to be hoist by their own petard.

    Its intriguing to think that if Lavrov does have anything concrete, then May and Johnson will likely be aware of what it is. And they face a weekend of ‘Puckering’ 🙂

    • Republicofscotland

      That’s it, according to the ER worker see my 16.09 pm comment, an airstrike caused a building to collapse which led to those in the video to suffer from breathing problems due to thick smoke inhalation.

      Panic sets in when someone shouts out it was a gas attack. The ER guy adds that the people didnt appear to be suffering gas attack symptoms.

  • Tony M

    It’s not all faked though if there are stockpiles of recently produced made in Britain chemical weapon ingredients and shells, and evidence of their use, as well as not a few senior personnel and other ranks. Whatever their fate they won’t be returning home any time soon, simply to return there and continue their crimes against humanity, they might be permitted to write home to their families, but the penalty for mass-murder as with ordinary murder must surely be lifelong incarceration with or without hard-labour, if not judicial execution. As suggested before the UK regime might prefer they simply disappeared than any further details come out. No-one here would want these warped individuals back on our streets.

  • Tony M

    Paul
    April 13, 2018 at 18:13

    Yes. Tthis is probably what hit the Pentagon 17 years ago.

    • Paul

      Tony,
      Sorry, I missed your reference to my comment. If the warhead-less missile was the cause, then a similar strike on a warship couldn’t really be expected to inflict merely token damage. Would you agree?

  • Emily

    Tell me?
    Did I just hear the Russians finger Britain for the war crime just committed in Syria.
    I suppose we must wait with some horror for the Russians to present their evidence of May/Johnson/Britain and their complicity in the gas attack in Syria and then if proven – obviously behind the Salisbury scenario.
    We know Porton Down had the nerve agent , did they in fact hand it to May’s agents?.
    Is the Christopher Steele and MI6 link fact indeed.?
    If the allegations are proven and can stick, then Britain will have no choice but to indict at least May and Johnson for war crimes and crimes against humanity in their taking the planet to almost nuclear war.
    From NO 10 to a prison cell.
    The woman appears a cold and unemotive psychopath – she is certainly a liar.
    She is Britain’s Hilary – the damage she has inflicted over eight years to Britain is beyond repair.
    So lets see what Russia comes up with.
    I personally believe May is capable of anything.
    But again we have to wait for proof. – this time against Britain.
    We are certainly living in interesting times – terrible and going down hill though they are.

    • Hagar

      I do not remember anyone from a NATO country being brought before the Criminal Court in the Hague, Emily.

  • BrianFujisan

    regarding the callous wrecking of International Law.. By the U.K, US, France, Saudi Arabia, Israel..

    Here is A great Interview with ternational Law Expert Prof Alfred de Zayas –

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=5pqliJ2z384

    And ya Gotta love George Galloway’s Wit –

    ” … It was A Lie, Despite the BBC Censoring the Video, They think it’s 1918 you see, they don’t know that we’ve actually all got the video, They’ve now censored the video, where Boris Johnson actuall says, You Can See His Lips Moving Which Is A Clue He Is About To Lie… ”

    Though I think G.G Steals Craig’s Phrases somtimes

  • Paul

    If there were a chemical attack, and if Syria and Russia were behind it–when they sent their people into Douma, were their personnel instructed to wear chemical warfare equipment? If yes, it would only be prudent. But if no, then clearly they had no real belief (much less foreknowledge) that chemical warfare agents were present.

    Is that a reasonable framing?

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