The Price of Peace 531


I have never managed fully to understand the mechanism by which the media and political class decide when to leave a fact, a glaringly obvious and vital fact, completely excluded from public debate. That process of exclusion is a psychological, not an organisational, phenomenon but extremely effective.

Brexit continues to dominate mainstream political discussion, and the Northern Ireland border issue remains at the centre of current negotiations, forced there by the London government’s reneging on the agreement it signed almost a year ago. But there is a secret here, hidden in plain sight, the glaring fact driving the entire process, but which the media somehow never mention.

For the Tory right, the destruction of the Anglo Irish Agreement is a major goal to be achieved through Brexit. In this, they are in secret communion with their friends in the DUP.

Consider the 58 page paper by one Michael Gove, entitled The Price of Peace, published in 2000 by the Tories’ leading “think tank” the Centre for Policy Studies.

Gove argues the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement and the Anglo Irish Agreement should be annulled. And Gove concludes:

Ulster’s future lies, ultimately, either as a Province of the United
Kingdom or a united Ireland. Attempts to fudge or finesse that
truth only create an ambiguity which those who profit by violence
will seek to exploit. Therefore, the best guarantee for stability is the
assertion by the Westminster Government that it will defend, with
all vigour, the right of the democratic majority in Northern Ireland
to remain in the United Kingdom. Ulster could then be governed
with an Assembly elected on the same basis as Wales, and an
administration constituted in the same way. Minority rights should
be protected by the same legal apparatus which exists across the
UK. The legislative framework which has guaranteed the rights and
freedoms of Roman Catholics and ethnic minorities in Liverpool
and London should apply equally in Belfast and Belleek…

In such circumstances, resolute security action, the use of
existing antiterrorist legislation and the careful application of
intelligence could reduce the IRA to operating as it did in the fifties
and sixties. Combining such security measures with a political
determination not to allow Ulster’s constitutional status to be altered
by force of arms would rob the republicans of hope.
It can be done. But does any Government have the will?

Gove gets to this position through a statement of root and branch opposition to the Good Friday Agreement motivated by a classic Tory rejection of any role for the state in seeking to enhance social justice, and of affirmation that the rights of the “majority community” to rule must not be limited or mitigated. Gove objects to every measure of the Good Friday Agreement, including promotion of Catholic recruitment into the RUC, support for the Irish language, state support for businesses, prisoner releases and changes to the oath of allegiance to the United Kingdom.

It [The Good Friday Agreement] enshrines a vision of human rights which
privileges contending minorities at the expense of the democratic
majority. It supplants the notion of independent citizens with one
of competing client groups. It offers social and economic rights:
“positive rights” which legitimise a growing role for bureaucratic
agencies in the re-distribution of resources, the running of
companies, the regulation of civic life and the exercise of personal
choice. It turns the police force into a political plaything whose
legitimacy depends on familiarity with fashionable social theories
and precise ethnic composition and not effectiveness in
maintaining order. It uproots justice from its traditions and makes
it politically contentious. It demeans traditional expressions of
British national identity. And it privileges those who wish to
refashion or deconstruct that identity.

This view of Northern Ireland is shared by Gove’s colleagues in the European Reform Group. They may have accepted it was politically not possible to roll back the Good Friday Agreement in the last couple of decades, but Brexit and a hard border fundamentally undermines the Anglo-Irish Agreement and changes their whole calculation.

It is not possible to understand the current state of play in Brexit negotiations, without understanding that those effectively driving the Tory Party position do not view a hard border with Ireland as undesirable. They view it as a vital achievement en route to rolling back power sharing and all the affirmative measures which brought peace to Northern Ireland, in an affirmation of the glory and power of unionism.

It is no accident that Northern Ireland is the rock on which Brexit has foundered. It is considered Tory strategy about which, by that psychological mechanism I will never understand, the mainstream media has chosen not to tell you.


531 thoughts on “The Price of Peace

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  • Not

    This view will be disliked by some, however :

    Reunite Ireland voluntarily, with provisions for protestant minority and phase in with UK military presence.

    That the reunification will only happen once Ireland has constitutionally enshrined that it will for always remain fully sovereign in all matters. Goodbye Euro and EU which would reduce to bilateral treaties.

    That limits are placed on military size and accommodation of foreign force prohibited.

    Gove is right on the bureaucratic positive rights fudge, it is a sham of over governance set forth since the budget veto was lost, and that occured in conjunction with q. over Ireland. Though the pro primacy of democratic governance view at

    http://www.historyandpolicy.org/policy-papers/papers/the-1909-budget-and-the-destruction-of-the-unwritten-constitution

    is very questionable ( given the corruption of majority rule when combined with monetary power, media manipulation etc. etc. etc.) it introduces the reality of politics at the time.

    Do I remember it as catholic kings that originally invaded Ireland, purges and all?

    Argue away, taking the above suggestion in a circumstance where any proper thought, or good and meaningful direction given the wider UK and European reality is lacking – it is a view that is easy to criticise if that is all you would do instead of trying to forge a greater sovereign peace.

    No reply will be given to comments as the above comment will not be revisited by author. It is a statement.

    • Paul Greenwood

      Reunite Ireland voluntarily, with provisions for protestant minority and phase in with UK military presence.

      Let’s do that in Kosovo and let Serbia protect its people from the KLA.

      We agreed to let Hitler do that in Bohemia in 1938

    • Jon Rueth

      ”Reunite Ireland voluntarily, with provisions for protestant minority”

      The protestant minority of Ireland need no provisions. Every Irish Republican knows full well the part played by the Irish protestant community in our fight for an Independent country. Some in 1916 lead from the front no less. Sectarianism does not exist on the majority of the island and the Catholic church will have zero influence on Irish matters in a less than a generation. We have moved on. We will continue to move on. The chains of oppression will never return* whether they be made in Rome, Britain or anywhere else.

      *Unless the Russians take up the naval base offer and lose the run of themselves 🙂 Then we’re back to square one.

  • Bill Boggia

    I guess the main stream medias objective is to support the aims and interests of its small number of owners / controllers profit and power – over and above those of peace and genuine progress.

  • Ian

    I doubt it’s anything so deliberate as you imagine, Craig. It is more a case of most of the media not understanding the issues, and even worse, not caring that much. There is a profound indifference to the way that May gerrymandered her staying at No 10, by bribing a minority party, who do not even represent the majority in NI. Just at the time when we least need it, this ridiculous little army of loudmouth grotesque throwbacks hold considerable power over her and the future relationship with the EU. They are the kind of people who will welcome destabilising NI, Ireland and the UK if they can, and relsih a return to sectarian division. That the UK media haven’t expressed their revulsion at this turn of events, and realised our antique and useless system of ‘representation’ isn’t fit for purpose tells you a lot about their indifferent, supine attitude to the whole thing.

    • imagine

      @Ian

      agreed re first-past-the-post voting systems.

      But you can’t be serious when you say that “the UK media haven’t expressed their revulsion at this turn of events”

      The British media have demonised protestants in Ireland all across my lifetime. Prods are bad devilish monsters, whilst catholic freedom fighters are good. That’s the gist of it.

      Those wanting to destabilise the northern Ireland state are republicans. It’s what they do. You must remember the car boxxmbs, the shootings, assinaantions, etc? You must be aware of the power that Sinn fein, the political wing of the IRA, wields in the corridors of power in Dublin. Why focus on the power of one faction, and ignore the other faction?

      I want a land fit for everyone. Equality for all.

      • Ian

        What nonsense re the british media. The DUP do not represent ordinary protestants, which was part of the point. They are a retrograde, divisive, inward-looking bunch who seek power regardless of the consequences. They are very happy to have torpedoed Stormont, and will be even happier to wreck the GFA, all with the collusion of right wing tories. They are abominable people.

        • imagine

          @Ian

          you do talk some bigoted nonsense.

          As much as I don’t like for the DUP – they don’t plant bomzbs, or shoot people, that don’t agree with them.

          You must really hate people that do that, right?

          Why don’t you turn some of your bigoted spewings towards the very people who are threatening a return to violence, if they don’t get their way?

          And just to correct your other yarn – Sinn Fein torpedoed Stormont……not the DUP. And Sinn Fein have refused to return to the power sharing government. Try and deal with reality.

          • Ian

            i think ‘bigoted spewing’ is a speciality of the DUP, Ulster Unionists and all the other rightwing groups who did in fact also plant bombs, murder people and collude with the police. The DUP are corrupt and have of course blamed Sinn Feinn for their own wrecking strategy for Stormont. They are poisonous. You seem to have a very rose tinted view of these bigots, who are very happy to take British and EU money whilst actively biting the hand that feeds them.

          • imagine

            @Ian

            what is it about republican terrorists that you love best?

            your bigotry is appalling.

            A new Ireland will need to be built on respect and equality…..things that you know nothing about.

          • IrishU

            @Ian

            If you are familiar at all with the politics and society of Northern Ireland you would know bigotry is not confined to one religion, tradition or political party. Your attempts to solely blame unionists are misguided.

            As for the collapse of Stormont. There is a clear and easy to follow timeline of events leading up to the collapse. DUP corruption and SF desire to extract concessions on an Irish Language Act. I provided a detailed overview on the first page of this blog’s comments.

            Unfortunately for SF, Theresa May called an election which put the DUP in the driving seat at Westminster. They don’t need Stormont at the minute and as a consequence Sinn Fein have been reduced to shouting from the sidelines and hopping on planes to Brussels.

          • Ian

            You are hilarious, imagine. We are talking about the DUP having a stranglehold over brexit, and being very prepared to wreck it, and the UK economy with it. Yet you want to go on about the republican terrorism of 30 years ago. Anyone who points out the bigoted nonsense of the DUP, their malicious intent, and their total unrepresntative nature, must ‘love’ republican terrorism, according to you. Great argument. You’ll go far with that.

          • imagine

            @Ian

            Ian says: “You are hilarious, imagine. We are talking about the DUP having a stranglehold over brexit, and being very prepared to wreck it, and the UK economy with it. Yet you want to go on about the republican terrorism of 30 years ago. Anyone who points out the bigoted nonsense of the DUP, their malicious intent, and their total unrepresntative nature, must ‘love’ republican terrorism, according to you. Great argument. You’ll go far with that.”
            ————————————–

            Ian, when you are in a hole, stop digging.

            Not only are your posts on N Ireland often factually wrong – e.g. who brought down Stormont.

            You also then subsequently refuse to acknowlege your mistakes…..and go on to keep reposting the error/untruth

            But what is frustrating is the level of bigotry and ignorance in your posts.

            In this thread, you have two folk, from opposite sides of the religious and political divide, alerting you to your mistakes and ignorance, and yet you refuse to acknowledge or change your approach. Indeed, you continue to criticise me, the protestant, in the thread.

            I have much respect for honesty, decency, fairness, intelligence and balance. And also people that give me a different perspective. You would do well to stay out of debates on issues that you know little about, or else do a lot more reading (and LISTENING). You have so much to learn. Bigoted analysis is not the way ahead.

            IrishU and myself are from opposite sides

          • Ian

            Ther is nothing factual about your version of who brought down Stormont, you just repeat the DUP lying version. As there is nothing factual about the rest of your nonsense, which is just mudslinging, and not by any stretch an ‘argument’. I don’t care what side you identify with, or make patheitic excuses for. It isn’t about ‘sides’.

          • imagine

            @Ian

            Ian reckons: “There is nothing factual about your version of who brought down Stormont, you just repeat the DUP lying version. As there is nothing factual about the rest of your nonsense, which is just mudslinging, and not by any stretch an ‘argument’. I don’t care what side you identify with, or make patheitic excuses for. It isn’t about ‘sides’.”
            —————————————–
            Ian, it’s ironic that you claim it isn’t about sides – when YOU are the one who takes sides.

            You steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the two sides of the issue.

            IrishU corrects you. I correct you. i.e. Catholic and Protestant (nationalist and unionist) together, both correct you. And you still maintain your bigoted analysis.

            What is it about listening and learning that you have trouble with?

          • Dave

            Storming was brought down by man made global warming. Another victim of the elementary scam.

          • Herbie

            IrishU

            “If you are familiar at all with the politics and society of Northern Ireland you would know bigotry is not confined to one religion, tradition or political party. Your attempts to solely blame unionists are misguided.”

            The thing is, there was a history of indoctrinating Northern Unionists in the necessity of keeping the Northern Catholics down.

            So, it isn’t at all surprising that Northern Unionists manifested a bigotry towards Northern Catholics. Higher up the scale this was seen as instrumental in protecting the Northern state, lower down it was a belief in the inferiority of Northern Catholics, and indeed Catholics in general.

            Northern Catholics just reacted to what they saw as discrimination against them. They didn’t think Unionists or Protestants were inferior.

            Very similar stuff going on between Israelis and Palestinians. Indoctrination of the former, and reaction of the latter.

            Anyway, it’s all string-pulling by much greater powers than any of us, and we need to learn not to fight amongst ourselves.

            Even when, at ground level, it seems the only thing to do.

            The Tragedy of Man is simply the Comedy of the gods.

            Our Comedy shall be their Tragedy.

          • Jude 93

            imagine: I’m no fan of Sinn Fein (for reasons very different from yours let it be said) but stating that the DUP never planted bombs or killed people is deeply misleading. The late Ian Paisley Sr was up to his oxters in loyalist paramilitarism – going back as far as the 1950s, and was a close associate of two notorious loyalist terrorist leaders, the late William McGrath and the late John McKeague. Both of these men were also paedophiles. As recently as the late 1990s, former DUP MP, Wiliam McCrea shared platforms with loyalist terrorist Billy Wright and the DUP condemned the RUC for arresting this rather infamous killer. Bands from loyalist terror groups such as the UVF and the UFF march regularly in Orange Order parades – thus illustrating the closeness of the connection between loyalist paramilitarism and “respectable” Unionism. When an old speech of John McDonnell – in which he praised the IRA – was dredged up in an obviously coordinated media effort to discredit Corbyn, Nigel Dodd of the DUP was welcomed to TV studios to expound on the wickedness of McDonnell. Turns out Dodd himself attended the wake for another famous loyalist terrorist, John Bingham. One could multiply the examples to show just how hypocritical Unionists are in their one-sided condemnations of the IRA. Indeed to listen to them – and their many Unionist cheerleaders on left and right in the media – one would assume that Loyalist/Unionists never killed anyone during the Troubles. For example, when Paisley died a few years ago, the British and Irish media, did not – for some unexplained reason – think his connections to McKeague and McGrath worth mentioning..

        • IrishU

          @Ian

          Regarding what brought Stormont down, these are verifiable facts as opposed to your conjecture:

          Ostensibly, the power sharing Executive collapsed over spiralling costs of the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) Scheme and allegations of corruption on the part of DUP Special Advisers and ministerial incompetence. However, as always with NI / Ireland, the story is more complicated. The Assembly fell for several reasons including, failure to agree an Irish Language Act, DUP intransigence over social issues such as abortion and equal marriage and of course the possible out workings of Brexit. Also, the ill-health of Martin McGuinness cannot be ruled out as a significant factor in the fall of devolved government. Despite his past Martin McGuinness was committed to devolution and the Good Friday Agreement and often acted to rein in the more intemperate members of his own party in a bid to keep the show on the road.

          There is intransigence on the part of both the DUP and Sinn Fein which is why NI has been without a government for almost two years. The DUP are enjoying their bit of power at Westminster and Sinn Fein, under a new leadership, are able to blame the Brits for everything while talking up a United Ireland. It suits both of them, for the minute. Crucially, Sinn Fein see Brexit as their best hope of advancing a border referendum and are therefore as happy to stall over a resumption of devolution as the DUP.

          • imagine

            @IrishU

            IrishU “There is intransigence on the part of both the DUP and Sinn Fein which is why NI has been without a government for almost two years.”
            ——————-

            spot on analysis.

            And you refer earlier to the death of Martin McGuinness.

            His early death was a body blow to a new Ireland and reconciliation. IMHO

            It’s quite ironic, the level of respect that he had gained across the divide, considering his past.

            But he showed statesman like qualities during his political years.

          • Vivian O'Blivion

            As a fully paid up member of the National Union of cynics, sceptics and associated awkward bastards, I can’t help thinking from a practical perspective that the current state of stasis in Stormont was influenced by the fact that the politician / gangsters are still being paid. If recent newspaper reports are accurate they were still receiving traveling expenses ’till recently. Put ’em on the brew and they would get their ample butts back in the pews pretty sharply.

          • IrishU

            @Vivian,

            I completely agree. Arlene wouldn’t be long in looking over her shoulder at angry MLAs going without pay and worrying about a leadership challenge. Likewise, Sinn Fein relies on the ‘donations’ from its political representatives to help fund the party machine and there is an election in the offing in the South. Cut off the wages and miraculously there would be a deal.

          • Ian

            IrishU, I am quite familiar with the steps leading up to the Storming fiasco. You detail the basic outline. However, being even handed in apportioning blame might sound reasonable, but doesn’t imho capture the intransigent dishonesty of the DUP in all of this. Of course SF aren’t paragons either, but the DUP has always been opposed to the GFA, unlike SF, and would like nothing more than a reversion to the old days of sectarianism, with them in the driving seat. The irony is of course that they may precipitate exactly what SF wants, in terms of a majority moving to a united Ireland. May has made an utter fiasco of UK government and brexit by giving this recalcitrant, deeply antagonistic, fundamentalist sect such power over her and the rest of the UK. In that sense there is no equivalence between the two sides.

        • Paul Greenwood

          I do not know of ANY political party in the United Kingdom which can be said to REPRESENT its Voter Base

      • frankywiggles

        That’s because they don’t recognize the legitimacy of a “state” with no geographic or historicsl logic, created just 90-odd years ago in laughably undemocratic circumstances for purely bigoted reasons.

        • IrishU

          Except according to the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement, Sinn Fein did accept the constitutional status quo and furthermore, accepted that it would only change when the people of Northern Ireland voted to change it in a referendum.

          • frankywiggles

            Indeed. That is why they fly the Israeli flag in Protestant neighbourhoods and on their Orange walks.

          • Sharp Ears

            You are correct.

            VISITORS to Northern Ireland need not venture far to discover that local people have strong views about another, even bloodier zone of conflict. In Catholic and Irish-nationalist parts of Belfast murals lament the sufferings of civilians in Gaza and proclaim support for hunger-striking Palestinian prisoners. In Protestant areas the Israeli flag is a common sight. One much-vandalised mural celebrates Colonel John Patterson, an Irish Protestant officer in the British army and ardent Zionist who commanded a Jewish legion in the first world war. Until a couple of years ago, a plaque in a tense part of north Belfast marked the boyhood home of Chaim Herzog, the late Israeli president whose accent recalled his native city. It was so regularly defaced that it was taken down.
            /..
            https://www.economist.com/britain/2017/08/03/a-distant-conflict-resonates-in-northern-ireland

            Are the prods readying for the rapture?

          • IrishU

            Never takes long to drag Israel into the equation!

            As for the actual reasons behind some unionists and loyalists affiliating with Israel –

            1) Fundamentalist Christians of the DUP and elsewhere have a religious affinity with biblical Israel and see the modern state as some sort of divine descendent.

            2) Some see that Israel is also a democratic state attacked by terrorists who seek to target civilians to undermine the state’s willingness to continue and therefore seek to show solidarity.

            Of course the reverse of the position above is true for Nationalists / Republicans. They have an affinity with the Palestinians as they too have been colonised by settlers from overseas. The IRA and PLO also had close links during the Troubles often exchanging tactics while attending the same training camps in Libya.

          • Coldish

            Reply to IrishU (08.55): thanks for this – and your other – useful explanations of Irish attitudes on various sides.

      • glo

        You seem to forget that N.I. was [ perhaps is} a province controlled by government contolled sectarianism. The scandal of gerrymandering to ensure the rule of the Ulster scots, without a shred of Irish blood, the sectarianism of R.U.C. ,the civil service and Irish Banks policy not to employ catholics. What has changed in N.I. is demographics. Equality for all??? Tell that to the DUP with their anti abortion and anti Gay stance All of the bigots with their roots in the west of Scotland. Perhaps more importantly the founding fathers of KKK. Best free of that.

        • Herbie

          “All of the bigots with their roots in the west of Scotland”

          I thought they were mostly descended from Borders people.

          That’s kinda what you want to ensure a settlement in Ulster. I mean, you don’t just send farmers. You gotta secure the abandoned territory .

          Something similar happened after the second flight of the earls in 1970.

    • nevermind

      Thanks for that very informative snippet Janis H., Mr. Cook seems to have has had his fingers in many pies.

      Saudi Intelligence? Is that the lot who made half the world laugh in anger at their Istanbul antics. Mr. Cook is in suitable hands, so able willing and professional.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Just voted straight Democrat in today’s election, through it is all about fascist Trump though he is not on any ballot.

    Would vote to lock him up forever if I had the chance before the country breaks up into about five parts.

    • lysias

      I mainly voted for Democrats, but I couldn’t vote for Senator Ben Cardin, one of the chief sponsors of the bill that would criminslize supporting the BDS movement against Israeli crimes.

      • glenn_nl

        Ben Cardin’s opponent is fully right-on when it comes to all things Palestinian, right?

        If not, your precious purity has enabled yet another fascist to get in. Well done, sir.

        • lysias

          If Cardin’s support of that bill and of Israeli apartheid in general is not fascist, what is?

          • glenn_nl

            Their views on Israel may be indistinguishable, and I disagree with them 100%.

            What about all their other views – are they identical too? I thought my question was obvious enough.

            If they are not identical on ALL other issues, you have allowed your precious purity to allow the greater evil in. Just as every purity voter did, when they very effectively voted for Trump – as you did – instead of voting for Hillary.

          • glenn_nl

            Perhaps you are right, Lysias – if Cardin is on the whole much worse than his republican opponent, and that is bad enough to override the default support you’re giving Trump and his policies, then fair enough. I just hope that’s sufficient for you, as you consider the screams of children stolen from their parents, and the parents’ anguish in turn, caused by the Trump policies you have voted for.

          • lysias

            I never voted for Trump. I voted for Jill Stein, because Hillary was a disaster. “We came, we saw, he died (cackle).” That’s a psychopath speaking.

          • glenn_nl

            There were two viable candidates. Jill Stein was not one of them, nor was “I want a pony for Xmas”.

            Anyone who wants to be adult about it should vote for the viable candidate which is not worse than the other one.

            If you didn’t vote for the one, you voted for the other. Own it.

          • lysias

            Anyone who has a conscience should vote according to that conscience. Which for me means, among other things, not voing for a psychopath.

            What makes you guys think you have the right to tell me how to vote?

          • Piotr Berman

            >>There were two viable candidates. Jill Stein was not one of them, nor was “I want a pony for Xmas”.<<

            Tony Campbell of GOP got 31%, there was only one viable candidate in Maryland.

        • Jude 93

          Bandying around terms like “fascist” re Trump is just meaningless left-liberal tribalism. I’m no fan of DJT but as John Pilger has pointed out, when it came to drone-striking third world populations – not to mention wholeheartedly supporting the Likudniks’ slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza – Obama’s anti-racist, anti-fascist credentials were nowhere to be seen. The Likud Party really does have roots in fascism, but partisan Dems turn a blind eye to Obama and Hillary’s craven support for this regime – on the basis that not to support the Dems in all circumstances is to betray “duh movement”. Well duh movement just happens to be controlled by megawealthy donors every bit as much the Republcans are. If it weren’t for the support liberal Democrats like the Clintons and the New York Times gave to the clamour for war in Iraq, that disastrous invasion could probably never have gained the critical mass among the commentariat it needed to achieve broad popular acceptance. And that’s without getting into the Clintons’ close ties to the Saudi regime. Not much concern for feminist rights there.

          • glenn_nl

            Not at all, Trump quite clearly is a fascist. At least, a lot of white supremacists think so. Practically all of his “popularist” policies are designed specifically to appeal to fear of immigrants, ultra nationalists and non-whites generally. Pretending otherwise is sheer disingenuity.

            Not liking Trump does not equate to loving the Clintons, Obama, and everything they stand for. That should be very obvious to anyone who is not mischievously pretending otherwise.

            So all in all, I find your apologia here for Trump supporters masquerading as just people terribly concerned about their pure leftist credentials rather unconvincing.

          • GlassHopper

            Obama launched the terror campaign against the Syrian Arab Republic that has caused the death of half a million Syrians and the displacement of many more. This was done to undermine Iran at the behest of you know who.

            To be fair to Trump, he has regularly said he wants out of Syria, but the neocons want him to stay.

            Then again, this is a guy who brought back John Bolton, so gawd knows what goes on in his head?

          • imagine

            @Jude93.

            Spot on.

            The sheep who think they are worshipping at the feet of progressives, are actually worshipping false Gods.

            Wikileaks and the other truth-tellers have revealed that reality.

            I have American friends, lifelong democrat supporters, who refused to vote for Hillary in 2016. They were terrified she would take them into a war against Russia.

            And Obama’s 8 years in office, saw hims drop 20% more bomxbs, that Bush did in his 8 years. And of course Obama did not fulfil his promise of closing guantanamo, and getting the troops out of the middle east. And Obama went after whistleblowers and journalists far more fiercely than the previous republican regime.

            Equality amongst mankind has never been larger. Globalists are a cancer within the blue and red elites.

            They have taken greed to new levels. They have ruined this planet.

          • glenn_nl

            Imagine: “I have American friends, lifelong democrat supporters, who refused to vote for Hillary in 2016. They were terrified she would take them into a war against Russia.

            Tell your American friends to stop buying into right-wing propaganda. You could do the same yourself.

          • imagine

            @glenn_nl

            Glenn says: “Tell your American friends to stop buying into right-wing propaganda. You could do the same yourself.”
            —————

            interesting…..because many of my views would be considered left of centre.

            You keep referring to Trump as a fascist. That’s interesting, because Donald was a registered democrat for 8 years in the 2000s. And up until 2010, he had donated pretty much evenly to both dems and the republicans.

            in Iraq, and across the middle east, do you the locals can differentiate between democrat and republican sourced bomzbs that are landing on their heads?

            You are a Hillary supporter? If so, you really need to start reading the truth, to be found via people like Julian Assange and Edward Snowden. You might then stop worshipping false prophets.

            There was no right choice, when it came to Hillary and Trump. It was the devil versus satan. Or Al Capone versus Arthur Daley.

          • Jude 93

            Glenn: “Trump is quite clearly a fascist: at least a lot of white supremacists think so.***

            I’m afraid I don’t rely on the opinions of white supremacists to form an opinion as to what makes for a fascist.
            As for your general points, “GlassHopper” and “imagine” have answered them very well, so I would just add that plenty of children have screamed as a result of the relentless bombing of non-white countries undertaken by the Obama and Clinton administrations – not to mention the Clinton sanctions on Iraq during the 1990s. This whole kneejerk idea that one must always back the Dems, no matter how bellicose and corrupt the candidate, because the alternative would be a right-wing republican, in practice gives the likes of the Clintons and Obama a free pass to do whatever they or their paymasters so choose once in office. And of course Bill Clinton and Obama also deported plenty of illegal/undocumented migrants, so even if treatment of migrants is one’s only criterion for judging what makes for a fascist, the establshment Dems don’t emerge untarnished.

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        My biggest complaint of Cardin is that he did nothing when NSA eavesdropped on John P. Wheeler, III, and killed him when he was trying to solve the problems with Iran along with the Shah;s heir who was also murdered to cover up such independent ways.

    • imagine

      @Trowbridge H. Ford

      if America breaking up into 4 or 5 smaller nations, is what it takes to declaw the US monster, then that’s what is needed.

      the world is fed up with endless war, and corruption masquerading as democracy and progressive.

      wikileaks sure let the genie out of the bottle.

      there is no democracy…..there are no laws for the elite.

    • Deb O'Nair

      Given the wall to wall coverage of the mid-terms on the UK media I’m wondering if I’m supposed to be voting, otherwise the constant coverage seems completely pointless.

      • Dungroanin

        As the 51st state after brexit gets officially incorporated.
        You better be learning your oath of allegiance as well learning about voting practices. And dont forget your cap and chant usa, usa, u-s-a!

        • laguerre

          We would never get as high as 51st state, with a say. We’d be more like Puerto Rico, a vassal without control. That’s what the Brexiters want, to be a client colony of the US.

    • Paul Greenwood

      Do you post bout BreXit and the situation in Italy on US Blogs ? Is it essential we get bombarded with US political propaganda ?

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Fortunately, Cardin wasn’t on the Connecticut ballot but I had to hold my nose in voting for Chris Murphy who exploits the Sandy Hook massacre with no significant reform, and is a great sponsor of the military state when it comes to war-making.

    • Shatnersrug

      Cardin swept it anyway, I doubt Lysias’s vote would have made enough of a difference to prompt the big handbags at dawn argument that happened above.

      Having been a Labour member through the Blair years I know all about the conscience verse the lesser of two evils dichotomy.luckily for me Corbyn has always been my MP, but could I vote for woodcock? Or John Mann? That would be trying. Possibly beyond even my loyalties.

      I think trying to enshrine laws that prevent protest about another country that is running a far right programme ought to be considered treason. It’s almost certainly corruption in office given that the only reason that one would possibly do it is for financial support.

      [email protected] will fall from favour soon enough and these politicians that corrupted their own legislature for them will be seem for what they are.

  • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh

    A few links regarding the St Andrews Agreement and the Irish Language:
    – – –
    The following PDF of the Agreement states (Annex B, second from bottom bullet point on page 12):

    “The Government will introduce an Irish Language Act reflecting on the experience of Wales and Ireland and work with the incoming Executive to enhance and protect the development of the Irish language.”
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/136651/st_andrews_agreement-2.pdf

    Note also point 78 here:
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/53/notes/division/6/2/5/3
    – – –
    Short opinion piece from Slugger O’Toole site:
    ‘Fake politics in Westminster re Irish Language Act proposal’
    https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/07/10/fake-politics-in-westminster-re-irish-language-act-proposal/
    – – –
    Recent audio (in Irish) discussing Welsh MP Liz Saville Roberts’ broaching of the issue at Westminster:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIK9CSdKEPk
    – – –

    • Bayard

      “The Government will introduce an Irish Language Act reflecting on the experience of Wales and Ireland and work with the incoming Executive to enhance and protect the development of the Irish language.”

      Any success the Welsh have had in increasing the number of speakers of Welsh has bugger all to do with the government and everything to do with the concern and care of the Welsh themselves, bringing their children up to speak Welsh as their first language.

      • Jon Rueth

        Bayard

        ”Any success the Welsh have had in increasing the number of speakers of Welsh has bugger all to do with the government and everything to do with the concern and care of the Welsh themselves, bringing their children up to speak Welsh as their first language.”

        Fair play to the Welsh. You can tell a lot about a nation who never let their heritage, culture and identity die out no matter what obstacles need to be overcome.

        But I think you miss Fearghas’s point regards the Irish Language and the north of Ireland – ”The following PDF of the Agreement states (Annex B, second from bottom bullet point on page 12):“The Government will introduce an Irish Language Act”

        The DUP are denying this from happening because of hate. Nothing more. Shamefully really. Most rational people want to expand their intelligence. The DUP want the opposite and not just for themselves but for everyone.

      • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh

        Central point has indeed of course much high-level validity. Nonetheless, accruing centuries of pernicious, historically brutal, policies of extirpation by all levels of government, the hitherto flagrant calculated imperial imposition of monoglot English education and media now evasively camouflaged behind penny-pinching and procrastinating obstructionism, the duplicit cynical smirking tokenistic minimalism of quangos when required by legislation to evince bilingualism, all peremptorily reinforced with crass chest-thumping hubris and nose-thumbing mépris by mischievous ever-alert internally-colonised anglophone native press-scriveners never short of a sharpened pencil, can eventually rather take its toll and cause to falter somewhat even the most enthusiastic minority-language family’s jaunty stride.

        • IrishU

          Fearghas,

          It certainly appears as though you have mastered the English language in all of its beauty!

          • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh

            Thanks. Though I confess that using that French word “mépris” was what I found most satisfying…?

        • Bayard

          Agreed, but the Welsh faced all of that, too, but they do seem keener on keeping the language alive than the Irish. A few years ago there were, coincidentally, radio programmes in both Wales and Ireland, both featuring someone who went round the country pretending to speak only the native language. Their experiences could not have been more different, with the Irishman meeting mostly hostility at his refusal to speak English, compared to the sympathy and helpfulness experienced by the Welshman.

      • Clark

        There are a lot of children of English people in Wales, and of other parents who don’t know Welsh. It’s important that these children are taught Welsh too, or division or exclusion could follow.

        • fwl

          Everyone learns some Welsh in school in Wales, but there is a big difference between going to Welsh school and learning Welsh and English school.

          There has been quite a bit of division and resentment in some areas by English speaking Welsh families, who sometimes rightly or wrongly have perceived a bit of a Welsh Taffia. Again there are no simple patterns and lots of variance. Its always great to find your in a town where there is a lot of Welsh spoken. That’s just nice and relaxed and homely. In truth there are a lot of different types of places in Wales.

          • MaryPau!

            Geraint Thomas, who won this year’s Tour Dr France, comes from a family who are fiercely proud of being Welsh. He was raised and educated in Wales, in a state school, where all the pupils were taught the Welsh language. Yet he does not speak Welsh. He has said as a teenager he took little interest in learning it, along with many of the other boys in his class. Probably not untypical.

          • fwl

            Everyone is very proud of Geraint Thomas. Learning Welsh if you don’t come from a Welsh speaking family or go to Welsh school is difficult to accomplish just by lessons in an otherwise predominantly English speaking school, unless you are either a linguist or really committed and go whole hog and that might be because whilst you can learn French, Spanish or whatever and go off and have an adventure in another land it’s altogether different if the adventure is next door in the community you have known (or think you know) all your life. That’s not to say one shouldn’t do it, for you may find your neighbour is a Welsh poet and a door opens, but it’s not so easy for many.

      • Paul Greenwood

        bringing their children up to speak Welsh as their first language.

        and no doubt discrimination I the workplace against those that do not

        • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh

          “Discrimination in the workplace” against those lacking the linguistic skill for the job?

      • fwl

        That’s not quite true. It is surprising how many Welsh speakers there are whose English only speaking parents sent them to Welsh school. It’s interesting because there were generations where the home language was Welsh but they assumed that to get on they had to use English and then for many it got reversed with English at home and Welsh at school and the chance to use Welsh to get on in work.

        Of course there are many differences.

    • Ian

      More interesting than this blog’s comments, isn’t it. Now I see why Craig doesn’t bother with them.

      • jazza

        agree Ian – it seems that those who spend all their time, everyday on here are more than happy to be appeasers for the reality that the uk is fcked as is ameereeka – happy clappers the lot of ’em

    • Paul Greenwood

      What are these “Citizens Rights” ? The ECHR was set up by the UK in 1950 and since 1998 the Human Rights Act has incorporated the Convention into UK Law. It is the Law and the basis of Case law

  • giyane

    Craig , I have never read anything so incisive and so brilliant as this piece. You slice through the Tory smoke-screen which has totally confused the rest of us. Brexit also eradicates English citizens’ rights in the process of bringing back from Brussells and allows a platform for extreme right-wing tripe such as the idea suggested this week that the NHS is for our health and we should pay by insurance for our ill-health.

    Windrush exposed the absolute core nastiness of Mrs May and why she is convinced the British people want a racist Brerxit . through your insights into the Tory suppression of Scottish nationalism you have unwrapped a cancer in the Tory politick in relation to Northern Ireland. All Tories are always liars so it’s best to say that this renewal of vows between UK and NI is only ever going to be a temporary political expedient in order to survive at this precise moment.

    The reality is that nobody in the UK supports the Tories, or anything they stand for, except because they don’t think hard enough to realise that it was Tory policies that broke the bank in 2007/8 handing over all the real money in the banks to the Zionists for Zionist nefarious purposes. So you have broken yet another link in their wall of lies. Tories be damned. We will have an honest politician in Jeremy Corbyn in No 10 when this broken link starts to snap the other lying links.

    • giyane

      Sorry, but Jeremy Corbyn’s principles stand against 30 years of continuous war against Muslim countries in our very own lifetimes, means that he is the answer to most of our problems which are caused by the Uk being run for the benefit of and interests of another country, [email protected]%$(l, about four hours flying time to the South East.

      When that drain of intellectual talent and material resources stops, the UK will experience a new Renaissance. I am wholly convinced of that, as an Englishman and a Muslim. we have been dragged into the gutter by MI6 and the CIA, in their struggle to denigrate the beautiful religion of Truth, Islam, a sinister and evil purpose on which 90% of our national resources are now spent.

    • frankywiggles

      For credibility and coherence’s sake, please offer a few alternative names of people you think do have all the answers, other than yourself Otherwise everything you write is just contentless guff.

      • jazza

        what is it about moderators here – I have not said this before – frank – you have answers – nobody has ALL the answers, please?

    • Ken Kenn

      The unsurprising truth is that the newly revived Conservative and Ulster Unionist Party has recently re-discovered its affinity with the mainly English Conservative party and vice – versa. A convenience.

      The common Ulster Unionist voters can as usual be counted on to do a Gammon ( left behind – neglected and so on and so on ) to keep the old English Establishment in the lifestyle it has become accustomed to.

      When I hear the cry of ” No Surrender!” I can’t help thinking that the Protestant Scottish Plantationers are being ironic as they ” surrendered to the English Bourgoise many many years ago for a meagre privilege of lauding it over the unwashed peasants of the South.

      It reminds me of the Boers working for the same for the ‘ privileges ‘ of lauding it over the South Africans.

      If not for tragic outcomes it all would be so laughable.

      The sameEnglish political class will happily introduce Universal Benefit to the DUP supporters and they will accept it with no question.

      If Corbyn gets in maybe ( just maybe?) Sinn Fein might reconsider their position re: taking seats in Parliament.

      • IrishU

        On a point of clarification, unionist voters are split between a number of parties including the DUP, UUP, TUV, Alliance Party, Independents and to a lesser extent the Green Party. To lump all ‘Ulster Unionist voters’ as ‘gammon’ is inaccurate. DUP voters would largely fall into this category.

        For example 40% of Protestants voted to remain in the 2016 Referendum, while 34% of Unionists voted to remain.
        https://www.qub.ac.uk/brexit/Brexitfilestore/Filetoupload,728121,en.pdf

        Also, as discussed elsewhere in the comments, Sinn Fein will never take their seats in Westminster while an Oath to the Monarch remains. With Corbyn in government it could be argued that they wouldn’t need to. The new Government would already be more disposed towards SF and nationalism.

    • Hatuey

      Giyane, you were just about holding a little water there until you said, “We will have an honest politician in Jeremy Corbyn in No 10 when this broken link starts to snap the other lying links.”

      Nobody has any idea what Jeremy stands for, even on Brexit or low-hanging fruit like Trident. Sure, there’s lots of vague overtures about poverty and creating a fairer society, but just about every winner of Miss World over the last 50 years has come out with crap of that standard.

      This is the game they play at Westminster. Good cop, bad cop, either way you get shafted. When will you twig — Labour and the Tories serve the same master….

        • Hatuey

          “Labour will not reverse its decision to keep Britain’s Trident nuclear deterrent, the shadow defence secretary has said.” https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/labour-not-going-back-on-decision-to-support-trident-1-4759091

          Interesting that Corbyn fans think the Labour Party will not renew Trident. Constructive ambiguity or just the usual Labour lies? You decide.

          Btw, you should apologise when you accuse someone of being out of date and are proven to be misinformed and wrong… you won’t, but you should.

          • SA

            Sorry to hurt your feelings. Maybe you are not out of date but perhaps somewhat oversimplifying. Everyone knows that Corbyn is against Trident but also everybody who is fair also acknowledges that Corbyn is a democrat who would like to release the democratic potential in the party and not merely force his views on it.. The problem is that there are a lot of Blairites MPs who will use this as a wrecking point and there are bigger battles to fight at the moment..
            Talking of Trident. Although the SNP is opposed to Trident, they are not opposed to remaining in NATO so the SNP is happy to piggyback on other people’s nuclear deterrent but not have one on thier soil.

          • Paul Greenwood

            The most complex engineered product in the UK is a nuclear submarine. The construction began in 2016. The contracts for the upgraded Trident launch tubes are no doubt already signed with Lockheed-martin and the US Navy. The first of the current boats was built in 1993 and will be end of life at 25 years so it is already on extended-life before the Dreadnought Class are launched.

      • Johny Conspiranoid

        Corbyn has definetly said he wants to get rid of Trident, would not retaliate with nuclear weapons even if UK was attacked with them and is pro Brexit. It was all over the news in 2016.

        • Vivian O'Blivion

          Corbyn peddles constructive ambiguity on Brexit, it’s a luxury you can afford when in opposition. He assures us that Labour would conduct a more competent job in negotiating a working relationship with the EU (they probably would, it wouldn’t be difficult). Corbyn wants to negotiate A Customs Union with the EU (note; not THE Customs Union). His stated aim is to allow free trade in goods while retaining the ability to dispense substantial State assistance to industry. That just won’t fly! Imagine a Labour government bails out a failing car manufacturer, this (indirectly) puts manufacturing jobs in the EU at risk. Do you think vehicles from the UK would be allowed tariff free flow onto the continent in such circumstances?
          For what it’s worth, in attempting to negotiate A Customs Union with the EU, Labour would probably concede membership of THE Customs Union and that would be agreeable to the majority of Labour supporters and probably the majority of the population.
          Odd little post script. All States in the EU practice State aid to private industry in the form of development grants etc.. At what point / scale does this become unacceptable?

        • Paul Greenwood

          If the UK were attacked with nuclear weapons there would be nothing left. An RS-28 could eradicate the whole of the UK. Having one boat at sea which is British policy would not affect much with 16 missiles and MIRVs.

          In 1935 Chamberlain funded the decision of the Air Ministry to build 4-engined bombers to strike European cities. Hitler never built more than 2-engined bombers since he never intended to attack the UK strategically and without France and Norway had no range to hit UK targets. May 1940 was the first raid on German cities – 96 planes I think on Moenchen-Gladbach to block peace overtures from Germany

    • MaryPau!

      If no one supports the Tories, how come we have a democratically elected Conservative government?

      • laguerre

        I’m surprised to hear we have a “democratically elected Conservative government”. They’re elected as much as the Nazis were in 1933, just the largest minority party.

        • MaryPau!

          The members of the House of Commons are all democratically elected. The party with the largest number of seats forms the government. Overall in the final vote in 2017, Conservatives got around 42.4 % of total vote and Labour 40%, other parties were quite some way behind. Now you might not like the system, I don’t myself, and the winning party may have to form a coalition to govern, as indeed often happens in the EU, but the UK is recognised internationally as a functioning democracy.

          • laguerre

            “UK is recognised internationally as a functioning democracy.”

            Only by those who shut their eyes to the obvious. Britain is a “limited” democracy. The majority numerically of members of parliament are unelected, though the elected have greater rights than the unelected. And the head of state is unelected. All of which leaves a relatively small number of elected representatives, and that’s going to be reduced further, is it not (from 650 to 600)?

        • Paul Greenwood

          That is an interesting statement. The Conservative Government was elected in 2015 and re-elected in 2017. At which point do you believe Voters chose to vote “NSDAP” in the United Kingdom ?

  • John Goss

    “That process of exclusion is a psychological, not an organisational, phenomenon but extremely effective.”

    The mainstream media moguls have their own agenda. They are the mouthpiece of government. Careful editing and the exclusion of one story in preference to another is the mechanism by which the populace is lulled into a belief that the news is unbiased. Tonight I was on the verge of praising the BBC for depicting the horrors of war as seen through the eyes of First World War poet Wilfred Owen. Laudably it touched on Owen’s mental suffering likening it to what today is called post traumatic stress disorder and had schoolchildren reading from his poems.

    All well and good you might think. Me too. After all the sludge and the blood and the cud and eyes writhing from a face hanging like a devil’s (omitted) it had two boys reading the last couplets. The first said “My friend, you would not tell with such high zest to children ardent for some desperate glory,” And the second boy: “Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori.” Here again, though I cannot find it to check, they omitted the three most important words “The old Lie”.

    “My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
    To children ardent for some desperate glory,
    The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
    Pro patria mori. ”

    They must have edited it for reasons of time. 🙂

    • Makropulos

      Thanks for that information about the ommision of “The old Lie” ,John. I caught a bit if this report on WW1 and it seemed to me that everyone involved was taking part in a competition to see whose family lost the most members in the war – presumably to boast about which family could display the most patriotism.

      • John Goss

        The other thing is Makropulos yesterday they had a senior Forces’ recruitment officer talking about shortage of recruits and the need to recruit from former colonies to fill the shortfall. It was of course a free recruitment drive aimed at young men (and women) prepared to lay down their lives or commit legal wholesale murder of poor unarmed people abroad. It has always been so. Just think of the Zulu war where Michael Caine and his brave compatriots shoot thousands of Zulu warriors (the leader of whom unsuccessfully tried to broker a peace deal) fighting with hand-made spears. Western powers rarely fight against an enemy with an equal sophistication of weaponry.

        The Brits have much to be ashamed about. Almost as much as the Yanks.

        • Paul Greenwood

          Western powers rarely fight against an enemy with an equal sophistication of weaponry.

          150 soldiers against 4000 Zulus………..and you think a Martini-Henry evened the odds !!!!!!

          “The Mk2 Martini–Henry rifle, as used in the Zulu Wars, was sighted to 1,800 yards. At 1,200 yards (1100 m), 20 shots exhibited a mean deflection from the centre of the group of 27 inches (69.5 cm), the highest point on the trajectory was 8 feet (2.44 m) at 500 yards (450 m).”

          What did you fight with John Goss ?

          • Rob Royston

            I’m not an expert but I think rifles were designed initially for “volley” fire. A modern longbow, you could rain shots down on massed armies a mile away. The English longbow also took a high toll on the Scottish Army until they developed defensive tactics.

          • John Goss

            “What did you fight with John Goss ?”

            The truth is I don’t go into other people’s countries trying to steal their land and resources. The fact that my country does shames me. Yemen, in the new kind of western-funded proxy holocausts against starving people, is a terrible example of gutless politicians in Westminster not being prepared to raise a collective voice against this injustice. It should be getting the coverage it gets on RT instead of once in a blue moon on our media.

  • Cesca

    Simple answer to this Craig, Imperialists shouldn’t be allowed to win because of evil imperialism, N.I is Irish, you don’t indulge the despotic invaders, give it back to the Irish. Those who don’t like it can move to England, who are the problem.

    Aldous Huxley said the world had gone mad back in 1959/60, i’m glad that magnificent prophet didn’t live to see the evil depravity the US/UK are capable of. Don’t ever think the UK doesn’t enable the evil happening in the world thru its financial dominance, as much as the US tries to thru violence. Great vid to watch: The Spider’s Web: Britain’s Second Empire (Documentary) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8

    I think the solution is to let the whole charade collapse, no bailouts, let the dollar turn to dust. It will make the disgusting, evil goblins penniless too, they will soon want to sort a humane way.

    • Cesca

      In my comparatively short life, i have learned about the depths of human stupidity and evil. My Mum is Romanian but she knew about the Establishment/NWO back in the 1980’s, people were intelligent enough politically to know what was going on back then to know it wasn’t a conspiracy theory. The likes of Trilateral Commission creator David Rockefeller even complained us oiks were too political!

      Well, he thinks most of us are in our right place now, ppl of potential hi intelligence have let themselves be dumbed down to the point of subservient fools. I will never have children, the world is beautiful, the system is evil

  • jazza

    [Verse 1]
    Well, my shoes, they come from Singapore
    My flashlight’s from Taiwan
    My tablecloth’s from Malaysia
    My belt buckle’s from the Amazon
    You know, this shirt I wear comes from the Philippines
    And the car I drive is a Chevrolet
    It was put together down in Argentina
    By a guy making thirty cents a day

    [Chorus]
    Well, it’s sundown on the union
    And what’s made in the U.S.A
    Sure was a good idea
    Till greed got in the way

    [Verse 2]
    Well, this silk dress is from Hong Kong
    And the pearls are from Japan
    Well, the dog collar’s from India
    And the flower pot’s from Pakistan
    All the furniture, it says “Made in Brazil”
    Where a woman, she slaved for sure
    Bringing home thirty cents a day to a family of twelve
    You know, that’s a lot of money to her

    [Chorus]

    [Verse 3]
    Well, you know, lots of people complaining that there is no work
    I say, “Why you say that for
    When nothing you got is U. S –made?”
    They don’t make nothin’ here no more
    You know, capitalism is above the law
    It say, “It don’t count ’less it sells”
    When it costs too much to build it at home
    You just build it cheaper someplace else

    [Chorus]

    [Verse 4]
    Well, the job that you used to have
    They gave it to somebody down in El Salvador
    The unions are big business, friend
    And they’re going out like a dinosaur
    They used to grow food in Kansas
    Now they want to grow it on the moon and eat it raw
    I can see the day coming when even your home garden
    Is going to be against the law

    [Chorus]

    [Verse 5]
    Democracy don’t rule the world
    You’d better get that in your head
    This world is ruled by violence
    But I guess that’s better left unsaid
    From Broadway to the Milky Way
    That’s a lot of territory indeed
    And a man’s going to do what he has to do
    When he’s got a hungry mouth to feed

    Dylan – Union Sundown

    • imagine

      “jazza

      thanks for those great lyrics!

      I was unaware of that Dylan track.

      Great stuff. Thanks!

  • Sharp Ears

    Interesting that Theresa is defying the instruction from her boyfriend Donald not to trade with Iran.

    UK pledges to expand trade relations with Iran despite dire US warnings over sanctions
    Hassan Rouhani, Iran’s president, said his country would break the US sanctions
    5 NOVEMBER 2018

    The UK has said it will expand trade relations with Iran in the face of US warnings that European firms face “painful” consequences if they continue to do business in the country.

    Speaking hours after sweeping new sanctions went into force, Mike Pompeo, the US secretary of state, warned businesses not to use a special channel being set up by the EU to allow ongoing trade with Tehran.
    /..

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/05/irans-president-vows-break-us-sanctions-fight-economic-war/amp/

    • Jon Rueth

      The US has already waved the sanctions on Iran’s oil to its 8 biggest customers (to save face obviously as these countries have said they would buy regardless) – India, China, Russia(?), Japan, Korea, Italy, Turkey and Greece.

      The question has to be asked is it Iran the US is actually targeting with these sanctions or the EU; German, British and French economies losing out massively (again) (as is the case with Russian sanction hurting EU members)?

      Exempt Italy and Greece but not France, Britain and Germany would suggest the USA is going after the EU.

  • fwl

    I’ve not seen it but apparently Homecoming a new US 10 part series on Amazon with Julia Roberts as a therapist at a veterans’ private reintegration facility in a world of corporate government has as its theme the question of how responsible do you have to be for a thing before you assume responsibility. If your not high up in the pecking order is it acceptable to shrug and make compromises or …

  • Sharp Ears

    Another tweet from Craig + responses.

    Craig Murray
    @CraigMurrayOrg

    It is not possible to understand Brexit, without understanding that those effectively driving the Tory Party position do not view a hard border with Ireland as undesirable. They view it as a vital step towards ending the Good Friday Agreement.

    The Price of Peace
    craigmurray.org.uk
    8:13 PM · Nov 6, 2018 ·
    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1059901530390888448

  • fwl

    There may be an interesting psychological mechanism as to how the media know what is on and what is off message, but as to the message not to tell and what it is:- perhaps Craig is over stating the current Tory enthusiasm for Unionism. Tories, the original Jacobites. Tories who agreed to a referendum for Scotland. Tories such as Cameron who differ hardly at all from Blair.

    At the Brexit conclusion I suspect UK may end up in a relationship to the EU such as a HK or Singapore has to China i.e. if its a soft Brexit it will be the HK model (one China / one EU with two systems and an off shore island for convenient purposes).

    If it is a hard Brexit it will be the Singapore model (two countries but closely connected and again an offshore base for convenient purposes).

    In such a scenario and ignoring other factors the Singapore model is preferable as it has greater autonomy although HK model looks more likely.

    • fwl

      There is also the Taiwanese model, namely independent, a democracy but in a bad relationship with the larger entity (for Taiwan China / for the UK the EU), who insist that separation is a temporary phenomena, and all the while reliant upon the US.

      • fwl

        And in turn NI has relationships with both the UK and Eire perhaps similar to the relationships of HK, and Taiwan to China.

        NI to the UK is like HK. It is part of the UK but has or at times has a degree of autonomy.

        Ni to Eire is more like Taiwan. It is a different country and the larger country anticipates a return to the fold and NI relies upon another for security i.e. UK (as opposed to Taiwan’s US).

        However, AFAIK no one in NI is calling for a Singapore solution for NI.

        • fwl

          And finally on this theme of how China’s satellites have differing relationships with China there is also Macao and I suppose that too might also be a Brexit model.

          Not a pleasing one for as absolutely charming and delightful as Macao is if there were a Macanese Brexit outcome that would be Britain as an offshore punting kingdom, which some might suggest it already is.

          Thinking about this theme of Britain as an offshore satellite to the EU makes me consider if perhaps Gibraltar might be sacrificed as some in Gibraltar fear. Sacrificed as we become a larger version of Gibraltar?

          That’s the end of this fool’s idle speculation for the time being.

  • Gary

    I looked at the writings and then remembered he was Scottish. How bad is that?

    It’s no coincidence that Stormont has not sat and that May’s government has not forced this issue. There seems to be nothing happening on that front whatever, and no doubt that pleases the DUP.

    And while it’s true that there is a group on the Conservative Party who think like Gove it is true that many do not, And I mean they do not even think of NI at all, they don’t seem to have the concept that this is an issue OR they were pro-EU, Essentially May has done a deal with the devil ie DUP. Who the mainstream media seems to forget are terrorist sympathising extremists. If Labour had done a deal with Sinn Fein it would have been scandalous, and yet May has brought their opposite numbers into the heart of UK government, from where they can poison it.

    May is in an impossible situation. The DUP and other extremists in her own party (like Gove) want a hard border with watchtowers and barbed wire. The EU won’t tolerate this although they ARE willing to kick it down the road via the use of a temporary inclusion of NI in the customs union.

    Labour meanwhile will vote against ANY proposal May brings meaning she can’t depend on any party to get the final agreement through.

    So, either she takes the EU deal and treats the parliamentary vote as ‘advisory’ (which, legally speaking, it is) or she respects it and has us leaving the EU with no deal. And that’s not just a no deal meaning WTO rules on tariffs, that’s a no deal meaning visas could be required and no deals on flights, ex-pats, continuing use of EU passports etc.

    But given what Gove wrote it’s almost as though there’s a small hardcore in the Tories who WANT a return to violence in NI. NB I say a ‘return’ but if you’ve been there, and I have. you’ll soon realise that the violence never went away, it simply lessened. All the same people are still agitating, having marches and probably spitting on priests like their Scottish counterparts too.

    I think we should ready ourselves for a worst case scenario…

  • Hieroglyph

    It goes to what you consider the essential purpose of the msm is. Not what they say it is, but what it actually is. What they might say is that journalism seeks to educate and inform, and report the facts free from bias. Now, the savvier journalists accept that bias is inevitable, but that they are still obligated to follow the facts as they are, and be, if not objective, then at least ethical.

    The problem here, one suspects, is that the above description of the purpose of the mainstream media is, not to put too fine a point on it, utter bullshit. Your hard-working journalist might, like the lowly catholic clergy they so resemble, still buy into the dogma; but at the senior leadership levels, they well understand that the media is a startlingly effective source of weaponized propaganda. To a degree that, finally, means that this is, in fact, it’s central purpose. The MSM is mind-poison, and the editors know it. So anything that doesn’t aid in the propaganda, in the seep-slow gaslighting of the populace is by default entirely excluded.

    Over the last few years, my position on the media has hardened, because they aren’t trying anymore. I used to be able to forgive their Oxbridge values, or their ties to whatever party, and their group-think. Now I don’t, because I believe the editor class is just deeply cynical, and basically hates us. Exhibit A: Donald J. Trump. Does anyone seriously content he is given fair, reasonable treatment by the MSM? I think they’ve all gone insane, personally, but maybe they are all chums of Hillary.

    • imagine

      @Hieroglyph

      spot on post.

      the MSM is pure undiluted weaponised propaganda.

      They don’t even pretend any longer to provide balanced coverage.

      In America only 6 big corporations broadcast the news narrative. And with the internet, it’s very easy to see that the same narrative is being pushed across all the ‘separate’ news organisations. Indeed, often the same words in theheadlines and text of the article.

      The news and propaganda is now so remote from ordinary people and their life experiences, that the majority of folk have caught on and don’t watch or buy it.

      Red or blue, it’s all a yarn. Regardless of who gets elected, big business wins and ordinary people lose.

      the question I ask myself, is has it got very bad in the past decade – or was it always this bad (and I didn’t realise).

      • giyane

        imagine

        Tory lies => citizen mental illness => citizen physical disease from addictive compensation habits.

        A Tory thinks : ” why should the state have to pay for the weaknesses of citizens who are incapable of unravelling our lies. ” Tories are sectionable psychopaths and yes as they get more confident many people are finding it hard to cope. As with Mrs Thatcher the Tories will rebel against the clinical madness of their own leaders. It might happen next year or even next week. Corbyn is rational and I think we can cope with the Old Labour dogma better than the Alt-right.

        • imagine

          @giyane

          like you, on several key issues, I’d like to see Corbyn elected too.

          I am a big fan of the National Health Service – and these past 30 plus years, the Tories and New Labour have privatised and hived off anything their corporate paymasters could turn a profit on.

          And I think the PFI schemes are a disgrace. Not to mention the torture and wars.

          But I am old enough to know that big business makes the laws…..and their propaganda media usuaully are successful in herding the sheep to the preplanned result.

          They promise so much when running for office. But when in office, they fill their wallets and collude with their corporate/establishment masters. Sadly i do not see much about to change in my lifetime.

      • That

        “the MSM is pure undiluted weaponised propaganda” who convinced you of that? Another media outlet? You do understand the concept of competition and leverage don’t you?
        That’s what they want you to think….

        • Radar O’Reilly

          The (dead) former journalist Michael Hastings writing accurately(1) in BuzzFeed six-years ago convinced me of that with the repeal/neutralisation of the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948 and of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act 1987 that were originally passed to protect U.S. domestic audiences from their government’s high budget military misinformation campaigns.

          Senators did subsequently vote to allow the MSM to send pure undiluted propaganda, and in view of much of the world’s MSM subversion(2) and widespread ‘churnalism’ it is completely accurate to describe a lot of our mainstream media as weaponised propaganda. Period.

          (1) https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mhastings/congressmen-seek-to-lift-propaganda-ban

          (2) ePub book EAN:9783864451645 ~€20

          • imagine

            @ Radar O’Reilly

            thanks for that link.

            Thankfully more and more people have caught on, that we no longer have a free press, nor democracy.

            in hindsight, i wonder if this was always the case……was it always a mirage.

  • Chris Barclay

    Anti-BREXIT elements of the British media have implied that the only thing standing between NI and a return to violence is the IRA’s respect for EU law. A ludicrous assertion. Peace exists in NI because the IRA’s base want peace and because Sinn Fein feel that they can secure their objectives through the political process.

    I remember crossing the border between Fermanagh and the Republic in the 1980s. Sometimes there were military checks. Sometimes there was no border check at all. I presume what happened on any particular day was intelligence led. If that could happen then, the same can happen now.

  • Sharp Ears

    Because he’s worth it.

    Nov 6, 2018
    Trump Isn’t America’s Richest Politician Anymore. Illinois’ New Governor J.B. Pritzker Is.

    Hyatt heir and long time Democratic donor J.B. Pritzker gave a record $171.5 million of his own money to his campaign to become Illinois’ new governor. And just a little over an hour after the polls closed, Pritzker found out it was money well spent. According to multiple news outlets, Pritzker beat out incumbent Republican Governor Bruce Rauner, winning by an estimated 31% margin as of 9:25 p.m. Eastern Time.

    Once Pritzker assumes office, he will be the richest sitting politician in the country, worth an estimated $3.2 billion, surpassing President Trump, who currently holds that title with a net worth of $3.1 billion.

    /..
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/denizcam/2018/11/06/illinois-new-governor-jb-pritzker-is-now-the-nations-richest-elected-official-ahead-of-trump/#3a1e00735749

    An account of the obscene amounts of money expended on these latest US elections.

    • pete

      Re Re Sharp Ears and Pritzker

      The Better Government Association says about him:

      “Records show Pritzker has funded his charitable giving almost exclusively with inherited proceeds, much of it filtered through offshore tax havens and then deposited in a tax-exempt nonprofit he controls, the Pritzker Family Foundation.
      The result is that Pritzker’s philanthropy, and any accolades that go with it, have been bankrolled with what is essentially found money. He did little to earn the proceeds and paid no taxes on the bulk of it before giving it away.
      Pritzker’s record as a philanthropist is central element in his campaign asking Illinois voters to put him in charge of their tax money. In ads and speeches, he stresses how he has used his money to do good and make a difference.
      But the complete story is more complex. Most people who make charitable donations do so out of earnings or savings on which they have already paid taxes. Pritzker, on the other hand, did no work for most of the money he has given away or pay taxes on it.”

      https://www.bettergov.org/news/pritzkers-storied-charity-costs-him-little-but-taxpayers-a-lot

  • MichaelK

    Dear Craig, I’m not sure it really is such a ‘mystery’ at all. ‘Psychology’ is only the ‘froth’ on the wave. What we are talking about here is really deep-rooted ‘class’ attitudes, values, dogmas and a shared world view, that virtually the entire media are soaked in like sheep dip from an early age. Anyone with different views is filtered out by a long process that precludes them rising to a position of influence or a space where they can express critical, oppositional views. Just look at the backgrounds of the leading journalists at the BBC or the Guardian, for example, they are far more alike than they pretend to be and have an affinity with the politicians on many levels, despite their protestations, and this has precious little to do with pyschology, primarily, but an awful lot to do with social class. These people know, through their upbringing, education and socialisation, what one can talk about openly and what one can’t, rather like members of a religious cult do.

  • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh

    Welsh democracy ‘under threat’ unless Wales takes charge of broadcasting (NATION*CYMRU 5 Nov 2018)

    “Every day, broadcasters confuse people by reporting on matters that only affect England but giving the impression that they are relevant to Wales….The main broadcasters on all their platforms mainly produce content for England, from England for the benefit of England – we’re being drowned in broadcast content that is damaging Welsh democracy.”

    “If people don’t understand who is responsible for what and what’s being done in their name, how can democracy work?…I saw in the 2016 referendum the negative impact of the lack of discussion in the media about how the decision would affect Wales – we really needed more national scrutiny….It’s been a massive problem in every referendum and election since devolution.”
    https://nation.cymru/news/welsh-democracy-under-threat-unless-wales-takes-charge-of-broadcasting/

      • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh

        Thanks very much for the linked video which I just watched just now and appreciated anew. Very funny. And of course at the same time very serious. I have had the privilege of hearing James Robertson deliver the poem in person. A fine, pleasant man, and a highly able writer. I very much agree that the video is “required viewing” for anyone interested in where Scotland is politically at. The desolating reality is that such a mind-numbing percentage (about half?) of Scots seem determined to retain such an abysmal status quo, and at any cost. Unless London whistles, it seems, these collie dogs don’t stir from slumber…

  • Sharp Ears

    Today’s NI newspapers and some news items.

    NI newspapers: Tragedy in Limavady and an icy journey
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-
    ——-
    DUP’s pro-Brexit advertising money was ‘permissible’
    6 November 2018
    The Electoral Commission has told MPs that it is satisfied that a £435,000 donation to the DUP was permissible under UK law.

    Some £425,000 of the money from the Constitutional Research Council (CRC) was spent on pro-Brexit advertising throughout the UK.
    The CRC is thought to be a group of pro-union business people chaired by Richard Cook.

    Mr Cook is a former vice chairman of the Scottish Conservatives.

    The commission’s chief executive, Claire Bassett, and head of regulation, Louise Edwards, gave evidence to the Commons’ Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee on Tuesday as part of the committee’s inquiry into disinformation and fake news.

    Ms Edwards told MPs that during the referendum period when the DUP received the controversial donation from the Scottish-based Constitutional Research Council the commission had received quarterly reports from the party about the donations they had received.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46118463

    • IrishU

      In response to the Crimes of Britain twitter post, it is a good job the IRA never used children as human shields, oh wait…

      As a counterpoint to the Crimes of Britain twitter page may I recommend the following:
      https://twitter.com/OnThisDayPIRA

      The page above lists people killed by the Provisional IRA – Army, RUC, UDR, RIR, and Protestant and Catholic civilians. A necessary reminder that the rewriting of history by Sinn Fein to portray the IRA as heroic freedom fighters is a deliberate whitewash. If someone is willing, rightfully in my opinion, to decry the murder of innocent people on Bloody Sunday in 1972, or in drone strikes today by the US and UK, then they should also be able to decry the IRA blowing up innocent people as they did their shopping and the UVF for murdering Catholics in their beds.

      • Sharp Ears

        ALL killing and ALL wounding is wrong.

        ____

        Look at the record of Milord Hutton, one time Attorney General of Northern Ireland and a High Court Judge.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Hutton,_Baron_Hutton#Judge

        He was ‘chosen’ by Blair to conduct the ‘inquiry’ into the death of Dr David Kelly. It was a complete travesty.

        ‘Lord Hutton was appointed by the Blair government to chair the inquiry on the circumstances surrounding the death of scientist David Kelly. The inquiry commenced on 11 August 2003. Many observers were surprised when he delivered his report on 28 January 2004 and cleared the British Government in large part.’

        We know that Dr Kelly was murdered.

        • IrishU

          Sharp Ears,

          You are correct. It is wrong, yet some still seem willing to justify it when it comes to NI depending on their own prejudices.

          Have you considered the record of Lord Hutton? He was known for being surprisingly even handed as a Judge hearing cases in Northern Ireland. As some will know, in 1972/3 trial by jury was suspended in Northern Ireland for terrorist offences and instead cases were heard in front of a single High Court Judge.

          Lord Hutton was not afraid to release suspects who he believed had given forced confessions. I believe he also refused the appeal by a soldier who was convicted of shooting and killing a joyrider in Belfast, which for someone serving as Lord Chief Justice and hoping to become a Law Lord was a strange move. Unless you consider the fact that he wasn’t a careerist or government lackey.

          • Trowbridge H. Ford

            Of course, Hutton was a government lackey, allowing the tribunal to find that Kelley had committed suicide according to Keith Hawton when the evidence showed he had been killed in an ambush, apparently arranged by Mossad Director Meir Dagan’s resident Mossad kidon.

            Hutton hoped he would then become a Law Lord.

          • IrishU

            @Trowbridge

            Nonsense. As I said in my response to Sharp Ears, you would do well to acquaint yourself with Lord Hutton’s career. If you did so, not only would you see that he went against government interests on more occasions than one would expect but also that he became a Law Lord in 1997.

            That undermines your argument concerning Lord Hutton’s desire to find that Kelly had committed suicide in the hope of becoming a Law Lord, no?

          • Trowbridge H. Ford

            Lord Hutton was a government scum bag with his arguments and decisions about the use of torture in Northern Ireland and his opposition against deporting Pinochet to Spain for his crimes whenever he became a Law Lord which is unclear about when it happened and which of the Huttons was concerned.

            His ruling of suicide in Kelly’s clear murder which you dismiss in a word was appalling. And you are a blind government hack.

          • imagine

            @Hatuey

            Hatuey throws the dummy out of the pram and squeals:

            “Irish, your views are child-like in their simplicity. To be clear, I mean that in the most insulting way possible.

            When we talk about Ireland, as grown ups….Now, when as grown ups…..

            Sorry to let the facts get in the way of your little fairytales. To be clear, again, I mean that sarcastically and am not sorry at all.

            I’m sick to the back teeth of apologists like you….

            Stop dumbing down conversations with your childish crap.”

            ————————————————–

            there’s delightful irony in your post. You endlessly refer to being a grown-up, and yet endlessly throw childish abuse.

            thank goodness you, and your type, no longer have guns and bomxbs, or the political vacuum to reap terror and mayhem on the people of the North of Ireland, or in mainland Britain.

            I just wish there was some way of stopping the likes of yourself, sow the generational sectarian hatred and division within the younger communities in ireland – i.e. our future.

          • frankywiggles

            Indeed, better to stick to healing narratives. Like your epic bitter rants about republicans, a shining model of reconciliation.

          • IrishU

            @Trowbridge,

            I shall take it you accept that he was appointed a Law Lord in 1997 and therefore that could not have been Lord Hutton’s motivation in the Kelly Affair?

            Which rulings in particularly did you find unconvincing in relation to torture? I would also be grateful if you could point to any evidence he supported use of torture in Northern Ireland. You may wish to refer to the case of Patrick Nash.

            I am neither blind, nor a government hack. I prefer to evaluate evidence. I also like accuracy. Both of these concepts are often lost here, by some more than others.

          • imagine

            @frankywiggles

            frankywriggles, using his other account, says: “Indeed, better to stick to healing narratives. Like your epic bitter rants about republicans, a shining model of reconciliation.”
            ——————————————

            I am not an apologist for terrorists….

            You support sectarianism, division, hatred and conflict. I don’t.

          • frankywiggles

            So when confronted with your own hypocrisy, the only response is to project your own activities and persona onto me.

          • imagine

            @frankly

            you’re the bigot here.

            all that you sow is hatred and support for those who would take us back to the dark days.

          • frankywiggles

            Nope, the only thing I have said on this thread is that Northern Ireland was created in laughably undemocratic circumstances for purely bigoted reasons, a simple statement of historical fact. That some Irish people took up arms to try and remove this undemocratic orange statelet should surprise nobody with a basic knowledge of anticolonial struggle.

          • Trowbridge H. Ford

            I certainly don’t take it that Lord Hutton was a Law Lord since he was Lord of Appeal in Ordinary, preceded by Lord Wolf, and resigned this position after he covered up Kelly’s murder without becoming a full one.

            I am not about to write a book about the Security Forces in North Ireland’s use of torture and Hutton’s involvement in it for you, nor one about Britain’s still imperial pretentious in the Middle East, Hong Gong, the Falklands, Gib, etc.

            Still nothing from you about the evidence before Lord Hutton which proved murder.

          • imagine

            @frankly

            And I have said on several occasions, that partition was wrong.

            But what you are misguided on, is that the republican movement (just like loyalist terrorism) are not romantic freedom fighters. Drug dealers, illegal diesel/oil distributors, money launderers, sectarian bigots, liars, torturers/killers of innocents and non-combatants covers much of it.

            the Good friday Agrement was for the slow learners of both extremes. It came about because of good decent people….moderates on both sides. Sadly those same moderates have now been cast to the wayside.

          • IrishU

            @Trowbridge,

            You state the following:

            “I certainly don’t take it that Lord Hutton was a Law Lord since he was Lord of Appeal in Ordinary, preceded by Lord Wolf, and resigned this position after he covered up Kelly’s murder without becoming a full one.”

            You have displayed your total ignorance here.

            ‘Lords of Appeal in Ordinary, commonly known as Law Lords…’ ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_of_Appeal_in_Ordinary ). I would be interested to know, what a full Law Lord is?

            Perhaps you shouldn’t comment on the British judicairy until you are better acquainted with the British legal system?

            As for the rest of your comment, you are the one who has laid a charge at the feet of Lord Hutton, namely that he supported torture, and yet you have provided no evidence whatsoever. As usual, you fold under the slightest of examination.

          • Trowbridge H. Ford

            Have not folded on anything about Lord Hutton.

            He apparently never sat on the Appellate Committee of the Law Lords which actual heard serious appeals until the Supreme Court of the UK was created in 2009. He was a reserve judge who was to simply sit to make sure that full Law Lords made the decisions in House’s appeal which Lord Brougham wanted to make sure of in the hearing of O’connell conviction back in the 1840s.

            You were there guy who brought of Hutton’s alleged good behavior on torture.

          • IrishU

            @Trowbridge

            You are talking complete nonsense, again. You have already been exposed as not knowing that there is no difference between a Lord of Appeal in Ordinary and a Law Lord. Now you invent the following:

            “He apparently never sat on the Appellate Committee of the Law Lords which actual heard serious appeals until the Supreme Court of the UK was created in 2009.”

            Apparently? According to who?

            Lord Hutton (clue is in the name) was appointed a Lord of Appeal in Ordinary in January 1997. As a Law Lord, one of twelve, he was a member of the Appellate Committee of The House of Lords – not a reserve. As you noted, Lord Hutton was one of seven judges that heard the case, ‘In Re Pinochet’, in December 1998. (https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199899/ldjudgmt/jd990115/pino01.htm ) Would you count that as a serious appeal? If so, it undermines your claim that Lord Hutton never sat on a serious case. If you don’t count that a s aserious case, there is an entire online repository of judgements made by the Appellate Committee of The House of Lords from which I can quote, demonstrating that Lord Hutton was a member of the Committee, took part in oral arguments and provided written judgements.

            It is quite embarrassing that you continue to display your ignorance in an effort to prove yourself correct. Far better to withdraw at this point, rather than continue the charade that you know anything about either Lord Hutton or the highest Court in the land prior to 2009.

            As for being ‘the guy who brought of (?) Hutton’s alleged good behavior on torture’, I did point out to both Sharp Ears and your good self that Lord Hutton had a record of refusing to toe what may be described as the establishment line during his tim eon the bench in NI. I have offered you an example (Nash), yet you can find no evidence to back up your claim concerning Lord Hutton’s ‘arguments and decisions about the use of torture.’ Strange that…

          • Trowbridge H. Ford

            So Hutton was there to give the Appellate Committee a quorum for its judgement which was made by the other ones present and affirming their findings, explaining why I used the word “apparently” in case knit-picking you found his name attached to one of its decisions.

            Just a complete diversion to explain away what scum Hutton was when he ruled by himself to suit his political superiors that Kelly killed himself when he was killed in the woods along the Thames, and his body was moved by TVP helicopter to Harrowdown Hill after it had been earlier found by Louise Holmes down river from where she met an apparent Mossed kidon which had been there all night.

          • IrishU

            @Trowbridge,

            Dear dear you can’t even accept a fact when it is laid out before you, repeatedly. That really is quite sad.

            Lord Hutton was a Law Lord, with all the rights and privledges entailed, and that has been demonstrably proven. Your repeated claims that he either was not a Law Lord or that he served only to make up numbers have also been proven as false.

            You have also failed to counter or undermine my points that he was not simply an establishment lackey when he served on the bench in Northern Ireland.

            I leave it to others to judge, pun intended, what has been set out and your incapacity to either acknowledge your mistakes concerning Lord Hutton’s position as a Law Lord or prove your claim that he backed torture in NI.

          • Trowbridge H. Ford

            Find your unwillingness to see Law Lords on different capacities hard to understand.

            How about solicitor Lord Collins whose most acknowledged case on the Court of Appeal was presenting the government’s case against sending that monster General Pinochet to Spain?

            What else did he decide?

      • SammyW

        IrishU; ”The page above lists people killed by the Provisional IRA ”.

        But were they really killed by the Provisional IRA IrishU? That is the question. Lets be honest. As you stated previous the PIRA always have been heavily infiltrated by British Intelligence agencies.

        Agent Stakeknife, Freddie Scappaticci, responsible for PIRA internal security (lol) was allegedly responsible for tens of murders over many, many years. Still a free man living in England.

        Who do you attribute these murders he committed as a double agent to? The PIRA or the British state?

        Some of the people he murdered, he murdered because they correctly accused him of being an informer for Britain. Do you count the people he and other British agents within the PIRA murdered as victims of the PIRA? Or Britain?

        Dirty war indeed.

        • IrishU

          SammyW,

          I have tried responding to you twice now – perhaps caught in moderation. I will check back later.

          @Mods?

          Cheers,
          IrishU

  • Stonky

    I just want to reinforce the message that Donald Trump is a rascist facist Nazi’s. He criticised Moslems, which is what rascist facist Nazi’s do. That should be obvious to anybody.

    Conversely, if he had killed 40,000 Libyans, destroyed their country, handed the remains over to a rabble of heavily-armed Islamofascists, halved its GDP, transformed its main economic activity from oil to people trafficking, and cackled with glee while black people were stood on a stump and sold as slaves in a marketplace, he wouldn’t be a rascist facist Nazi’s.He would be a progressive, and deserving of my support.

    That should be obvious to anybody.

    • joel

      It would make him a liberal. A bastion of civility, seeking to advance human freedom and democracy.

    • Geoffrey

      But nobody told us about the Libyans that were killed…or Iraqi’s,Syrian’s, Palestinian’s etc.

      • pete

        Re Paul ref: J Christopher Stevens

        The alleged horrifying details of his murder are available if you search at snopes.com, I have not linked them as I find them too grotesque to reiterate.

  • IrishU

    Those zionist cyber warriors are everywhere 😉

    Although it appears your post and my reply is back up.

  • Sharp Ears

    Payola by the US and the UK states.

    1. Israel and the Trillion-Dollar 2005-2018 US Intelligence Budget
    Zero Days: US may have spent “billions” on cyber warfare to placate Israel
    https://original.antiwar.com/smith-grant/2018/11/06/israel-and-the-trillion-dollar-2005-2018-us-intelligence-budget/

    2. Esther McVey’s bid to silence benefits critics condemned
    October 13 2018
    Gagging orders prevent charities helping welfare claimants from criticising Esther McVey, the work and pensions secretary
    ALAMY
    Esther McVey has faced condemnation from charities after The Times revealed that organisations working with universal credit claimants have been banned from criticising her in public.
    The work and pensions secretary was accused of using “deeply troubling” tactics to silence critics.
    This newspaper revealed yesterday that at least 22 organisations have signed deals with the government to run programmes helping people back into work. +++However, the contracts, which are worth £1.8 billion, state that groups receiving the money must “pay the utmost regard to the standing and reputation” of the work and pensions secretary.+++
    They must “not do anything which may attract adverse publicity” to her or harm the public’s confidence in her.
    Concerns have been growing about universal credit, the welfare reform programme which…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/esther-mcvey-s-bid-to-silence-benefits-critics-condemned-p3p7h5srr

    Who says that the UK is not a fascist state?

    • Sharp Ears

      And another gagging clause from HMG ref testing of cladding.

      PM is branded ‘cowardly’ after experts drafted in to test cladding following Grenfell disaster were banned from criticising the government
      A contract signed with engineering firm WSP just 12 days after the disaster stated that it must not generate ‘adverse publicity’ for the Cabinet Office or other Crown bodies, including the PM’s office
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6362673/Experts-banned-criticising-government-Grenfell-blaze.html

      The practice is widespread. The truth will never be known by the people. From the same article:

      ‘The Grenfell United campaign group told the Times: ‘The focus at every level of government must be to get to the truth about how and why Grenfell happened. No-one should be deterred from speaking out.’
      A wider investigation by the newspaper found that 40 charities and more than 300 companies had been blocked from publicly criticising the Government.
      Shadow Cabinet Office minister Jon Trickett said it was ‘hypocritical’ because Mrs May had vowed to crack down on the use of non-disclosure agreements.
      ‘Civil society organisations are often best placed to speak out when government gets it wrong. When they can’t, our democracy is worse off for it,’ he said. ‘The Conservatives seem to regard this as a fair price to avoid bad headlines, yet it’s public money that pays for it and it’s the public interest that suffers.’

      • That

        Oh from the Daily Mail? They are the bastion of defending the truth and the right to criticise aren’t they?

        • Trowbridge H. Ford

          The truth is the truth wherever or whoever it comes from, whether it be the DM or The Donald.

          He got in dispute with America’s covert state when he allowed North Korea to deny it had nuclear weapons when they had essentially appeared after the NRO had made quakes there to look like nuclear tests.

          I remember when critics of my work on Veterans Today simply dismissed it because of others work appeared there too.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Since Trump is now irremovable from office, we shall see what he does as chief of state and commander in chief, especially with all his covert forces.

    At least in Connecticut, I apparently helped get rid of Bob Stefanowsky as Governor., aka as Trump Light..

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