Reply To: SARS cov2 and Covid 19

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“If more people understood about “DNR” [1] and “QOLY” [2], there would be riots in the streets.”

QALY and WELBY are imperfect attempts to quantify things that are pretty difficult to quantify. Mostly used in assessing cost effectiveness of interventions. It is a government’s job to ensure value for money where there are limited resources.

Charlie posted a link to a parliament committee discussion in this thread where these terms were invoked:

I have never seen QALY in any medical notes, not ever. As I have said before N_ you have a real issue with doctors which you demonstrate incessantly in your posts in many threads. I can assure you QALYs never come into individual patient care decisions. I am fairly sure that a large number of docs have never heard the term.

As for DNR orders. Many patients request this themselves. Think of an end stage cancer patient who does not want medics jumping on their chests to resuscitate when they know they are going to die very soon anyway. I think that the vast majority of the public is well aware of DNR orders and understand their place. Decisions relating to DNRs are made after discussion with patients where possible and family members. The most senior person on the medical team is involved as soon as practically possible.

Far from rioting I think most people in the UK would understand what a QALY is attempting to be and I am certain anyone who has had a relative with cancer or other end stage disease knows the place for DNRs.

As for flu vaccinations, I think you need to reassess your opinion. Prior to this pandemic the effects of the annual excess winter deaths was being addressed by the NHS. More and more hospitals and GP surgeries were emphasising hand hygiene, use of PPE dealing with suspected flu and recognising its role as a significant cause of death. Vaccination was encouraged in the vulnerable groups and latterly more broadly. Protocols were drawn up on caring for suspected flu patients in hospitals with more emphasis on isolations and PPE. It was moving in the right direction.

I note that the deaths from Respiratory causes other than covid are significantly down in 2020. I suspect because of the general anti-viral measures being adopted by more people.