Conspiracy Theorists, Why is Westminster Lifting All COVID Restrictions?


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  • #74681 Reply
    ET

    The case numbers drop in UK is good news. It probably helps that schools are off and the weather better with people spending more time outdoors. It’s a fairly precipitous drop off though, perhaps the virus has less hosts and vaccination has to have helped some. We will see if it translates to fewer admissions and ventilated in the next 7-10 days. I do hope that will be the case.

    Apologise for the typos and attempted table in previous post. Table was butchered in posting 😀 but you get the gist.


    [ Mod: Fixed it for you – you’re welcome. ]

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    #74688 Reply
    Dean Clark

    They also buy almost the entire worlds supply of electric buses, half of its electric cars, are the world’s biggest exporter of solar panels and are currently outstripping the US in meeting their paris accord obligations

    #74694 Reply
    michael norton

    Matt the Hypocrite

    “A vote of no confidence in the West Suffolk MP Matt Hancock has been passed by councillors in his constituency.

    Mr Hancock resigned as Health Secretary last month, after he was caught on camera kissing his aide, in breach of Covid social distancing regulations.

    The motion, brought by one of Newmarket Town Council’s nine independent members, accused Mr Hancock of “hypocrisy”.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-57989509

    He was “rather” self serving and a shit to his wife, Matt still thinks he can be back in government, soon.
    I think Matt is deluded.

    #74698 Reply
    Clark

    Further to my earlier comment, the successive waves are most likely the result of the successive variants. At the time of posting, the following link shows the increasing prevalence of Delta since April – scroll down to the graph “Average daily B.1.617.2 prevalence”:

    https://outbreak.info/situation-reports?pango=B.1.617.2&loc=IND&loc=GBR&loc=USA&selected=Worldwide

    #74699 Reply
    michael norton

    Hello Clark, wow, I had been thinking that myself and was going to type similar but got distracted by Matt Hancock being declared a Hippo.

    Yes, I have also been guessing that there must be some correlation between strains and waves.

    Michael Norton

    #74700 Reply
    Clark

    It’s a crying shame that so many of the public seemingly can’t raise their minds above their genitals. Realistically, nearly everyone broke some social restriction rule or other. I got thrown out of a Tesco for walking against the arrows they’d taped to the floor. The Hancock snogging incident was just like the ‘news’papers sting against Ferguson – it tells us nothing except who was under particular scrutiny and why.

    It is notable that the anti-lockdown lobby employ these underhand tricks whereas the infection-control lobby don’t.

    “Matt still thinks he can be back in government, soon. I think Matt is deluded.”

    Craig’s Freedom of Information Act requests supported by contributors to this site forced Liam Fox’s resignation as Defence Minister. He’s back in government despite enabling Werritty to breach UK government security, colluding with Mossad and trying to drag the UK into war with Iran.

    But indeed, a snog may prove more significant.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by modbot.
    #74701 Reply
    Clark

    Hello Michael; our comments crossed.

    #74721 Reply
    michael norton

    France not unchained
    Britain is in the midst of another wave of the virus due to the so-called delta variant, although case numbers have dropped over the past week, while its vaccine drive has seen more than 70 percent of adults fully jabbed.
    https://www.france24.com/en/uk/20210728-england-to-drop-quarantine-for-fully-vaccinated-visitors-from-eu-us

    From August the second anyone who can prove they are double jabbed can come to Y.K. from U.S.A. or the E.U.
    but not France, without quarantining.

    The reason France will be excluded is given as Brazil variant?
    I am shocked Spain will also not be excluded.

    #74723 Reply
    michael norton

    Perhaps Matt Hancock was set up by “elements” within U.K. government, Matt was getting a little too overbearing and ambitious.

    #74742 Reply
    michael norton

    It would seem in Australia things are getting twitchy, troops being sent in to crush the rebels
    who do not want to be locked down. This is bloody shocking.

    Also, covid re-starting in China.

    #74745 Reply
    SA

    The jubilation about ‘freedom day’ is misplaced. The ranking of who is better or worse in terms of increasing numbers is inappropriate. The fact of a pandemic is that getting over it is a global effort and depends on the weakest link catching up, not the biggest bullshitting boaster’s claims. It is ironic that globalisation is understood by the neoliberals only to mean freedom of the rich to plunder the earth but without the duties of looking after it and after the weak. Without massive vaccine rollout it is meaningless to say we are OK in UK because 70% of adults are vaccinated. We are living in cloud and cuckoo land and ignoring what might come next.

    #74754 Reply
    Juz

    The conspiracy theorist you speak of; are these the people that were warning/predicting vaccine passports this time last year but were told they were delusional conspiracy theorists?

    And the “science” you speak of; have you seen any? Have you bothered to carry out any of your own research, read any scientific papers, read/heard the opinion of other well qualified experts (some of whom are Nobel Prize winners) most of which are being professionally silenced and censored? Reasoned debate has been completed quashed, but there’s no conspiracy. Even the man who invented mRNA vaccines has been erased from history on Wikipedia and YT because he dared question and criticise the way it’s been used against Covid19.

    Do just a smidgen of historical research and you’ll be shocked to find out how many “conspiracy theories” on various tipping points in history have now turned out to be perfectly accurate. Does the fact that you frequent this very website mean that there are some conspiracies you are willing to consider? You feel that governments, the judiciary and other institution can commit various atrocities and use their position to abase and abuse but would never do so when it came to peoples health?

    There’s so much groupthink going on everyone has stopped thinking for themselves and are just content to be force feed whatever information “they” want people to digest. The majority of people just swallow it all whole without applying any critical thought whatsoever.

    People who take the time and effort to find out things for themselves shouldn’t have to do your thinking for you. I really feel sorry for people that are not mentally independent. If you can’t see what’s plainly in front of your face, because you refuse to obtain information from any other source other than the BBC and other such corrupt MSM, there’s really no hope for you.

    If you want to know the possible answers to your question go and look for it yourself, I’m fed up with wasting time and energy on people that continue to exist with their heads buried in the sand. And yes I do realise the irony of that last statement considering that’s exactly what I’m doing. I just had to get the issue of your ignorance of my chest.

    #74760 Reply
    glenn_nl

    JUZ: By “finding out for myself”, do you mean I should learn about viruses, immunology and so on from first principles, without any assistance whatsoever from textbooks, existing knowledge, and God forbid from any “experts” who already know about the subject?

    Perhaps I should spend billions on research labs, employing only novices who know nothing about the science, because they’d all have been contaminated. Then I could arrange mass screening from millions of people in the world…

    Yes, then I’d “know for myself” what’s going on.

    Or are you actually talking about watching a bunch of videos on youtube, made by discredited hucksters and whacked out right-wing death-cultists – is that the sort of “research” and “finding out for yourself” you do?

    #74763 Reply
    Clark

    “Jus”:

    “I’m fed up with wasting time and energy on people that continue to exist with their heads buried in the sand.”

    Ah. So have you discussed this with me before? ‘Cos I don’t recognise your screen name; not from anywhere on Craig’s site.

    “Have you bothered to carry out any of your own research,”

    yes,

    “read any scientific papers,”

    yes,

    “read/heard the opinion of other well qualified experts (some of whom are Nobel Prize winners)”

    yes.

    And I’ve done another thing, conspicuous by its absence from your list – indeed, it should have been listed first. I have considered evidence.

    “most of which are being professionally silenced and censored”

    Where, and who by?

    “Reasoned debate has been completed quashed,”

    I have not found that to be the case. But I have found, repeatedly, that conspiracy theorists evade engaging in it. Prove me wrong.

    “but there’s no conspiracy.”

    There are countless conspiracies. But the style of argument known as “conspiracy theory” is incapable of revealing them, and indeed doesn’t even attempt to. It merely inflates its adherents’ egos with a belief that they’ve found secret knowledge, causing them to look down upon and dismiss their peers, as you have done above. It is divisive, and it confounds rational thought, and as such it serves the status quo.

    Prove me wrong. Prove you can treat me as an equal.

    #74764 Reply
    Clark

    “The conspiracy theorists I speak of” variously have claimed that there is no such virus as SARS-CoV-2, that there is no pandemic, that influenza statistics have been misattributed to COVID-19, that PCR tests produce nothing but false positives and can’t distinguish between SARS-CoV-2 and common cold viruses, that mRNA vaccines alter the recipients’ genetic code, that no hospitals or health services have been overloaded, that vaccines against COVID-19 are part of a depopulation agenda by the United Nations, and that the appearance of a pandemic is a hoax by a secret conspiracy of bankers. They have predicted so many things that their passing mentions of vaccination passports are insignificant.

    #74765 Reply
    glenn_nl

    Juz: “Reasoned debate has been completed quashed, but there’s no conspiracy.”

    There’s not much in the way of “reasoned debate” from your side, Juz. Just look at these discussion forums.

    People like you come charging in, calling non-denialists stupid, sheep, non-thinking dupes etc. etc., and then they get down to their “evidence” which pans out to be painfully thin, invariably all referencing the same few sources, and all of it fairly easily discredited.

    What happens then? Why, the denialists flounce off. This happens time and again. Look at the “Pick a side” thread.

    #74769 Reply
    SA

    Juz
    What is it that makes you think that we have not been reading scientific papers to find out the truth for ourselves? And when did you see any of us actually quoting the BBC for the science? Would you rather have us getting our information from Bitchute, del Bigtree and OffGuardian?
    You profess anger at our ignorance in a rather non specific way. Can we help you with any of the controversies and can we have a serious discussion? You pick the subject.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by degmod.
    #74779 Reply
    michael norton

    Jubilee, why constantly disparage the United Kingdom, are you people all U.K. breakers up?
    If there is nothing good in the U.K. why live here, why not live in Afghanistan?
    or China?
    I am sick to death of people on here trashing our country.
    You seem to have no regard for the majority who like living in these islands.

    #74781 Reply
    michael norton

    some people on here like to claim Australia, Taiwan, China, Japan bloody good fellows for crushing the peasantry and beating them half to death for daring to earn a living.
    Japan’s Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga warned infections were spreading at an unprecedented rate, urging the country to watch the Games from home.

    New cases are being fuelled by the more infectious Delta variant.
    Yers, your loved ones are getting covid.

    #74782 Reply
    glenn_nl

    MN: “ If there is nothing good in the U.K. why live here, why not live in Afghanistan?”

    What, and be subjected to UK/US foreign policies? You seem to forget the harm the UK/US does around the world, particularly to what you doubtless dismiss as failed states.

    Anyway, who are you to decide how our country should or should not be run, and tell us to shut up or go away if we don’t feel the same? Particularly since – with all due respect – you appear to be very much on the side of the rich and powerful, even if you’re not in that very select little group yourself.

    #74783 Reply
    michael norton

    Hello Glenn thankyou for your negative view of the United Kingdom.
    I have never lived in a faraway land.
    Almost everybody I know has similar view to me, they think the U.K. is a good place to live.
    I f only people like you would stay away and keep your views to yourselves.

    #74785 Reply
    SA

    The U.K. is a good place to live dispite its government. There are many great things in this country. I just watched the proms and that was exhilarating. But not everything and everybody is great in U.K. our government at the moment is rubbish and some countries do something better than us.

    #74786 Reply
    Clark

    “some people on here like to claim Australia, Taiwan, China, Japan bloody good fellows for crushing the peasantry and beating them half to death for daring to earn a living.”

    I shouldn’t have to say this, but Australia, Taiwan, China and Japan are not “fellows”; they’re countries. But you’re not even referring to geographical countries, are you? You mean governments, or nation states – power structures.

    Yes, power structures routinely do evil things, and when one does, another part of the guilty power structure, its mass media, produces propaganda – to justify it, minimise it, distract from it – all to diffuse and redirect the anger of the people, lest they change the power structure.

    Such media has another trick too. It magnifies injustices in other countries while conflating the people with the power structures on both “sides”, giving the impression that “their” power structure is far more immoral than “our” power structure. This increases nationalism and xenophobia, and is used to promote militarism.

    People indoctrinated by such propaganda tend to become intolerant of compatriots who criticise their country’s national power structure. They tend to say things like “why don’t you go and live in China”. meanwhile, similar people in China are saying “if you object, why don’t you go and live in the UK?”. And if they do, the same type of misled people in the UK say “bloody Chinese immigrants, taking advantage of our democracy; why don’t they go home?”

    Thus all the people are set against each other, and all the power structures are protected from the people’s rightful anger.

    Michael, do you think that women in the UK should lose the right to vote? Do you think that blacks in the US should be segregated from the white areas? Do you think that these equalities were just given, from the goodness of the hearts of the powerful? They were not, and neither were they bequeathed through military attack by some other, more benevolent government. They were won, by the oppressed parties themselves, through struggle – the type of struggle that you complain about.

    Michael, join the struggle.

    #74788 Reply
    ET

    “I am sick to death of people on here trashing our country.”

    Well, Michael, tough shit. Also, mostly it’s not trashing the UK, it’s trashing the UK’s response to the pandemic along with trashing the similar responses from most other european countries and the USA and multiple other countries. Those countries that did well instituted strict isolation, test and trace measures and closed the borders. Most of the countries that didn’t do so well didn’t. That is the point and, whatever you think, it is reasonable to compare and contrast.
    I lived so long in London I’d have considered myself a Londoner over being Irish. I have moved to another part of the British Isles, strictly speaking not in the UK, where they got their pandemic mostly right until they moved to a mitigation strategy rather than elimination. You are taking umbrage where there is no need.
    Do you think this current UK government is handling anything well? You keep pointing to the vaccination success but I keep pointing you to the similar levels of vaccination elsewhere. Vaccination will not be the whole answer though it sure helps.

    #74804 Reply
    michael norton

    sorry for my outburst my T.V. went wrong and I had been drinking.
    Covid infection rates in those countries that in the past have been so massively praised by some on here are outbreaking again.
    China, Japan & Australia.
    Australia are sending in the troops to control the restless masses of poor in Sydney, people who want to earn their crust, people who do not want to be controlled by Regime.
    People from Hong Kong and mainland China are being locked up if they dare to say the Communist Regime is not perfect in all matters – like the Popes, used to be.
    In Japan the ordinary people did not want the Games, they understood it would inflame covid, the Elite wanted the prestige and fuck what the peasantry wanted, Japan is now being ravaged by a new wave of covid.
    Nearer to home the Macron Regime is locking people up for taking the mickey out of Macron.
    People in India are beaten, almost to death for trying to go to work to earn their crust.
    Police in many countries are using almost unimaginable cruelty to poor people, who just need to work to eat.

    The lack of interest of the Elites in their own countries poor has been made even worse by their responses to covid.

    I of course accept that a lot of what the Johnson Regime have done has been next to useless or worse.

    But not everything about the U.K. is rubbish nor should everything that has happened in the U.K. be ridiculed, just because we currently have a Conservative government.

    #74806 Reply
    michael norton

    Now Brisbane, Australia on Lock-Down

    “The only way to beat the Delta strain is to move quickly, to be fast and to be strong,” Miles said.

    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20210731-covid-19-australia-s-third-largest-city-brisbane-goes-into-snap-lockdown

    Maybe Australia could try vaccinating their people?
    Oh no they forgot to buy any.

    So, quite possibly, those countries which have been praised so effusively
    for their very harsh and immediate Lock-Downs
    should have ordered, paid for and vaccinated?

    #74807 Reply
    ET

    “Covid infection rates in those countries that in the past have been so massively praised by some on here are outbreaking again.”

    Yes, but the numbers are in the 1-200 per day not tens of thousands, Sydney, Victoria..

    “Australia are sending in the troops to control the restless masses of poor in Sydney,”

    Cops crush planned anti-lockdown protest with CBD shutdown. It’s a provocative headline but there is no mention of army, only police.
    An anecdote: NSW is the only place where I was ever done for speeding, over 20 years ago, when I worked in Australia for a time.
    How do you know they are poor? From the above linked article “Essential workers, or anyone that requires medical treatment, will be able to make their way to their destinations.”

    “In Japan the ordinary people did not want the Games……………”

    Indeed. Didn’t we just have Euro 2020 for the same reasons, corporate sponsorship money. That is why both of these events went ahead despite rising cases. Money.

    As for people being locked up………Craig Murray goes to gaol tomorrow after supreme court rejects appeal. Julian Assange is still in Belmarsh. Look on YT and you’ll find multiple examples of UK polce abusing powers. It’s kinda everywhere.

    “But not everything about the U.K. is rubbish………”

    Of course not Michael and I don’t think anyone has said that. Same applies to all the other countries. It is no better or worse than any other “western” country if I’m being honest. Corporate interests fester in all western countries. Also Michael, most people here are either in UK or have close ties with the UK so it’s not unexpected that most of the commentary relates to what the UK gov does.

    ps. Think I’m suffering from long captcha syndrome……….. 😀

    #74808 Reply
    ET

    “Oh no they forgot to buy any.”

    With all due respect Michael, that is an overly simplistic view of vaccine supply. At the beginning, the major manufacturing hubs for vaccines and their precursors restricted export. That included USA, UK, Europe and India. The vaccines just were not available to be bought. Australia doesn’t have the biomedical capacity to make their own, yet. Remember relatively it’s a small country in population terms of 25 million. Most countries on the planet don’t have their own manufacturing capability and rely on the pharma companies to supply. If they won’t sell them to you what can you do?

    Perhaps Australia recognised this and that is one of the reasons they continue with their policy. I have read that they have about 18% of the population vaccinated and are presumably vaccinating the most vulnerable first and moving forward as supplies allow. Many other countries will be in the same boat.

    #74809 Reply
    Clark

    Something most states have done wrong is refusing to give money to the people so that they don’t need to work during social restrictions – so of course there is resentment.

    It shouldn’t take long, it’s not handouts forever. It should take around five weeks. It would cost a fraction of what governments have paid to bail out companies, what they have lost by permitting their economies to be crippled by the pandemic, and the extra they have had to spend on hospitalisation.

    China’s infection figures prove that it works – no matter the Chinese government’s other sins, which are many. The Chinese government didn’t support the people out of the goodness of its heart. They did it to protect the economy. It worked, and it continues to work.

    As to Australia, just one of the eight Administrative Territories, New South Wales, made restrictions voluntary. Nearly all the increase is there:

    https://www.endcoronavirus.org/green-zone-rankings#aus

    Covid has bled a little into other territories, but the majority of the continent is still free of covid. One Territory has had no covid for well over a year.

    #74818 Reply
    Clark

    As to criticisms being because of a Conservative government, Australia has a Conservative government, and one that I intensely dislike because of their attitudes to native Australians and to the climate crisis. But that doesn’t make them wrong about covid.

    #74821 Reply
    Clark

    Lockdowns need to be immediate if they’re to work, because covid spreads fast. They need to be firm, but they needn’t be harsh. But they HAVE to come with support, or they can’t work.

    It’s the same as not vaccinating kids; if anyone’s exposed, everyone is. It’s like fitting expensive security locks to all your windows but leaving the front door wide open.

    #74824 Reply
    michael norton

    To me and Nicola, it seems obvious that youngsters should be vaccinated or there will be yet another wave when schools/universities go back at the end of the Summer/Raining season.

    #74825 Reply
    michael norton

    There most definately has been terrible, brutal beatings handed out by police/troops to poor people in many countries, the poor seem to be despised.

    #74826 Reply
    SA

    It is so much more important that the vaccine is available everywhere than for it to be given to UK children, that is the outstanding priority both for saving more lives worldwide and as a policy to reduce the overall world burden of the disease and to restart trade and travel. Why are you and Nicola so obsessed with vaccinating children?

    #74827 Reply
    SA

    “….the poor seem to be despised.”

    That is why we hate the Tories so much here.

    #74830 Reply
    michael norton

    In political and sociological theory, the Elite are a small group of powerful people who hold a disproportionate amount of wealth, privilege, …

    French President Emmanuel Macron is suing a billboard owner who depicted Emmanuel as Adolf Hitler to protest COVID-19 restrictions.
    https://www.euronews.com/2021/07/29/french-president-emmanuel-macron-sues-billboard-owner-for-depicting-him-as-hitler
    “So in Macronia you can make fun of the prophet’s ass, that’s satire, but to make the president look like a dictator is blasphemy,” he added.

    The offending poster portrays Macron in the uniform of Nazi leader Hitler, with a small moustache, a lock on his forehead and the acronym of the presidential movement LREM turned into a swastika. A message reads: “Obey, get vaccinated.”

    France seems a rather unhappy country, they detest Macron.
    Macron is making all sorts of new rules up to force his peasants to get the jab.
    Soon, the peasants will not be able to go shopping or ride the trams unless they can prove they are doubled jabbered up. What I think is happening, in many parts of the World, is a stamping down by the Elites on poor people.
    The poor people do not want to be told what to do by their betters.
    This is starting to get like the very early days of the French Revolution.

    #74831 Reply
    michael norton

    Covid in Sydney: Military deployed to enforce Lock-Down
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-58021718

    Many have questioned whether the military intervention is necessary, calling it very-heavy-handed.

    The Lock-Down – in place until at least 28 August – bars people from leaving their home except for essential exercise, shopping, caregiving and other reasons.

    Despite five weeks of Lock-Down, infections in the nation’s largest city continue to spread.
    Not quite so wonderful?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-australia-57980530
    Malcolm Turnbull: Australia ex-PM says vaccine rollout ‘a colossal failure’

    #74832 Reply
    Clark

    Michael, I find the situation very worrying. It’s so convoluted that it’s hard to put into words.

    The fuel for this potential fire has been accumulating for years, decades, in fact centuries. Despite its massive impact so far, covid is just a spark. The people have a choice between socially inhibiting the spread of the virus, mass vaccination, or letting the virus run riot. But if the people rise up without coordination, in chaos, society will be disrupted and vaccine production and distribution will cease. Social viral control will also be so fragmented as to be almost ineffective.

    The fuel is exploitation and oppression. There is little consumption or production that poor people do that does not make rich people yet richer, because nearly all work is mediated by money, and every time money moves, the system diverts some of it to those who have more; the more they have, the more they get. Most people can’t even stop and sleep safely without subsidising someone better off, either through mortgage or rent.

    We’ve all heard of inequality of wealth, but seldom stop to think what it really means. As it increases, everyone’s experience of life diverges from everyone else’s. Watch a queue of vehicles at a red light. When the light goes green, they start to move and speed up, but they also all get further apart from all the others; the distance between any two cars increases. Another analogy is the starburst of a firework rocket – pick and follow any spark in the burst; whether it was leading near the circumference or slower and near the centre, all other sparks move away from it as the starburst expands.

    Inequality of wealth literally tears society apart; everyone’s comprehension of everyone else’s situation decreases, and with this comes distrust. Why should anyone trust the findings of science? The majority don’t have a single scientist as a friend. This applies to the rich and powerful as much as to the poor and disempowered, science being one of the middling professions.

    This problem was understood by those returning after World War Two, they had all been in the shit together, officer and private alike, and for a couple of brief decades it was reversed through socialist politics, the great Labour governments of the UK that built the NHS, the Welfare State, rent control, council housing and universal education. But the system of privilege is centuries older than that, and through its media power it persuaded the people to vote against it. I watched that happen, and, to my shame, I was even persuaded of it briefly.

    I have to go now, but now we have a mass of people who distrust social structures so much that they don’t even believe the virus exists, and think the vaccines are designed to kill them. I’ll get back to this tomorrow hopefully.

    #74834 Reply
    Clark

    …if the blog is still open for comments by then. If not, goodbye for a while, and I hope Craig and his family are ok.

    #74845 Reply
    mods-cm-org

    @ Clark 31/7/21, 20:19

    To cite Craig’s farewell article:

    we are not legally able to post anything while I am imprisoned. But the Justice for Craig Murray campaign website is now up and running and will start to have more content shortly. Fora and comments here are planned to stay open.

    In other words, these discussion forums will remain open for readers to raise issues for analysis and debate. For legal reasons, lead articles cannot be published during Craig’s incarceration. However, we are contacting prominent public figures to solicit articles for publication on the Craig Murray Justice campaign site. Whether that site will also host public comment facilities has yet to be determined. In any case, supporters will have an open forum here. If this becomes the primary channel for public opinions about issues concerning Craig Murray, then we will consider how best to boost the prominence of the discussion forums on the front page.

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