- This topic has 224 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 10 months, 2 weeks ago by Clark.
March 22, 2020 at 12:18 #51062nevermind
Here comes a fairly brilliant idea. In a time when everyone is worried, the chips are down for many, no cultural diversion, no sport and only a grainy netflix to sit on our backsides for, we need something to boost global moral.
THE GLOBAL PANDEMIC SONG CONTEST
1) Announce it worldwide to prepare one act per country, whittled down over two weeks to present the oline favorite in each respective country.
It is then that one camera wo/man films this act in each country, no touching at all. By a certain date, these acts are transmitted on TV for us to vote on, either online or by phone ( free or for a small fee,10n p, to pay for the camera work).
No need for large halls or bling or any presenters bar one who collates the votes.
It is open to any country worldwide and it is screened for as many days ( for one or two hrs/day) as it takes to see them all.
The final vote globally decides the numbers and we have one winner.
The can be one person or a group, an old or new song, it does not matter, the idea is to boost the moral of people that have been stuck at home for weeks.
I have talked to many, some who never were interested in Eurovision like me, and they all said its a great idea they would watch.
This is not about profits, but a cultural move to boost global confidence and moral.
I have no idea how to organise it as I do not work in the media, but the idea is to make it as safe as possible for all, without the bling, a simple cultural response to this wretched virus.
If everyone shares this widely, somebody with the nous will pick it up and run with it.
thanks in advanceMarch 22, 2020 at 13:08 #51066SA
The recurring theme heard from today’s roundup from UK is that the NHS does not even have the basic resources to protect its own staff, no appropriate masks or aprons, not sufficient staffing and no organisational attempts to help staff to and from work or to feed themselves. Already several doctors have become seriously ill and are on ventilators.
In the Andrew Marr show, an journalist from the Economist, Rolla Khaliq, said that it was Dominic Cummings who has been enthusiastic about the herd immunity eugenic experiments based on expecting 100,000 deaths. It was the Imperial study that projected that the figure was more like 500,000 if unmitigated and 250,000 if mitigated that changed his mind and he has now become a strong supporter of lockdown. I can’t believe that an unelected unscientific ‘advisor’ has so much influence on the clown who is our Prime Minister. A bit reminiscent of Rasputin and the last days of the Romanoffs.
Meanwhile minister still lie and reassure everyone that these supplies are available for the NHS and that in any case we will give them the money they need, as if wishful thinking will reverse this catastrophe.
On a separate note if we had a thinking government, instead of pretending that they will just dish out money for those affected by this, they should mass employ them to carry out a huge national mobilisation task. These people could be used to transport staff from home to hospitals and other essential activities, to distribute food, to act as marshals and wardens in communities to look out for the vulnerable, do their shopping and other errands and to monitor people who leave their homes unnecessarily. Such activities will not only allow people to retain an income, but will give them a sense of purpose and participation, rather than them being passive recipients of handouts.March 22, 2020 at 22:22 #51070Pooh
Let one remember this picture when taking more than one needs.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETjy1fRXYAElsAi?format=jpg&name=smallMarch 23, 2020 at 02:21 #51082Brianfujisan
Scotland bans people flocking to remote islands to escape coronavirus
Nicola Sturgeon has announced new measures to try and prevent the spread of coronavirus in Scotland, saying life ‘should not feel normal’. At a press conference today she said non-essential travellers should not go to the Scottish islands and ferries would not accept them, that B&Bs and hotels should not accept visitors and that people should not gather for occasions such as wedding receptions. She said there had been an influx of people to the Scottish islands, but warned that people ‘cannot outrun’ the virus and risked taking it to remote communities.March 23, 2020 at 08:16 #51084SA
I have just sent this letter to my MP
I am one of your constituents. I have written to you earlier about the Covid-19 crisis concerning the flawed government response. Since then it has been widely agreed that this response was flawed and the Government has changed its stance although in my opinion the response is late and weak. However, I would like to make a suggestion.
The government is proposing to give businesses and self employed and those on zero hour contract support during this crisis which is highly commendable. Would it not be possible to give this help a positive twist so that the recipients are actually involved and committed? This can be done by way of requisitioning both workers and premises. Of course details need to be worked out, but currently the majority of the nation seems to be asked to sit at home helplessly whilst a minority are bearing the burden in carrying out essential services. The government and local councils can use this to for example do the following:
1. Requisition resources to organise transport safely for NHS and other essential workers.
2. Requisition resources to help the food industry to arrange and expand home food deliveries.
3. Organise locally a system of volunteers to ensure that the vulnerable are cared for.
4. Organise ques at places such as supermarkets.
I am sure there are other activities but this is just a blueprint.March 23, 2020 at 08:30 #51085michael norton
Last evening, after they had closed, I went to Tesco to read their notice to see what they are doing about protecting their customers from infection, the manager came outside to take the notice in but spent some time chatting with me.
Pensioner hour will be Monday, Wednesday and Friday, between nine and ten, however, he pointed out that other people could not be excluded but he said pensioners would get “priority”.
I asked him how often they cleaned the trolley and basket handles, he said he did not know but he thought it was once a day.
I asked him did they actually have food.
He said they did have some food.March 23, 2020 at 20:55 #51098Brianfujisan
Interesting Piece here By Pepe Escobar at Consortium News –
….” Adding all that to the fact that coronavirus genome variations in Iran and Italy were sequenced and it was revealed they do not belong to the variety that infected Wuhan, Chinese media are now openly asking questions and drawing a connection with the shutting down in August last year of the “unsafe” military bioweapon lab at Fort Detrick, the Military Games, and the Wuhan epidemic. Some of these questions had been asked– with no response – inside the U.S. itself.
Extra questions linger about the opaque Event 201 in New York on October 18, 2019: a rehearsal for a worldwide pandemic caused by a deadly virus – which happened to be coronavirus. This magnificent coincidence happened one month before the outbreak in Wuhan.
Event 201 was sponsored by Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the World Economic Forum (WEF), the CIA, Bloomberg, John Hopkins Foundation and the UN. The World Military Games opened in Wuhan on the exact same day…March 24, 2020 at 09:20 #51107SA
Pepe is usually OK but in this case he is pushing an agenda, he has not qualified to make scientific and medical assessment, in my view.March 25, 2020 at 00:32 #51118Brianfujisan
Yeah you are correct Re Pepe’s Qualifications in this field.. I like pepe, doses good work.
I see that he Metro reported that the Virus is Airborne.. when there is Zero actual evidence for this –
Health Secretary Matt Hancock says the Government has ordered 3.5 million antibody tests to aid its battle against coronavirus.
“They will let people know if they have had coronavirus and whether they are immune to the airborne disease.”
The airborne ‘theory’ was questioned by a Chinese expert on Sunday.. Two days before the irresponsible Metro article –
This view was questioned on Sunday, when researcher Feng Luzhao of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention told a press conference there is no evidence that the virus can form aerosols. Feng said, according to China Daily, that the most likely route of transmission appears to be direct, where a person breathes in the air of an infected person who has coughed or sneezed, which is different to airborne transmission. In addition, he said it is unlikely the virus can spread through fruit and vegetables.March 25, 2020 at 06:35 #51121SA
That does appear to be the case. The difference is that droplets, large particles would be highly infectious, so if someone sneezes nearby or coughs then if you come in contact with these droplets you can get infected. On the other hand smaller particles persist longer and travel further but are not or much less, infectious.March 25, 2020 at 11:56 #51129SA
The Government’s response to Covid-19 crisis is confused and dangerous. On Monday Boris Johnson said
The UK has been put on lockdown for at least three weeks to combat the coronavirus outbreak, with police being given the power to fine people who break new emergency social rules.
In an unprecedented TV address to the nation, Prime Minister Boris Johnson said people must remain in their homes and can only leave in limited circumstances: to shop for food, exercise once a day, travel to work, and pick up medicine or care for a vulnerable person.
Johnson said all shops selling non-essential items will be forced to close, including clothing and electronic stores, while gatherings of more than two people will be dispersed by police. He added that social events such as weddings and baptisms will be banned, meaning people can only gather in large groups for funerals.
“You should not be meeting friends. If your friends ask you to meet, you should say ‘No,’” Johnson added. “You should not be meeting family members who do not live in your home. You should not be going shopping except for essentials like food and medicine — and you should do this as little as you can. And use food delivery services where you can.”
The prime minister, who delivered his message straight down the barrel of a camera in a message broadcast on the BBC and elsewhere, concluded: “I urge you at this moment of national emergency to stay at home, protect our NHS and save lives. Thank you.”
Very quickly after this the government watered down this ‘advisory’ lockdown even when it became apparent that the advice was unheeded by many and crowds went out to celebrate this new prolonged national holiday in the sunshine. So the current advice about going to work on the GOV website
“As set out in the section on staying at home, people can travel to and from work, but only where the work they do absolutely cannot be done from home.
With the exception of the organisations covered above in the section on closing non-essential shops and public spaces, the Government has not required any other businesses to close – indeed it is important for business to carry on.
Employers and employees should discuss their working arrangements, and employers should take every possible step to facilitate their employees working from home, including providing suitable IT and equipment to enable remote working.
Sometimes this will not be possible, as not everyone can work from home. Certain jobs require people to travel to their place of work – for instance if they operate machinery, work in construction or manufacturing, or are delivering front line services.
“If you cannot work from home then you can still travel to work, provided you are well and neither you nor any of your household are self-isolating. This is consistent with advice from the Chief Medical Officer.”
So again it is up to individuals employers and employees to decide whether it is safe.
I am sorry, but lockdown means lockdown, travel only if it is essential to the effort of keeping people alive and the virus contained. Dithering at this phase is exactly what will prolong the crisis you have to hit this very hard early as the Chinese have done, otherwise you will just prolong the agony.
”March 25, 2020 at 19:51 #51140michael norton
Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has been denied bail from a British prison after his lawyers said he was at particular risk of catching the new coronavirus.
Assange suffered several respiratory tract infections while in the Ecuadorean embassy in London, his defence said, and if he caught the virus in prison “the risk could be fatal”.
But the judge at Westminster Magistrates’ Court rejected the request, saying the Australian’s past efforts to evade legal proceedings showed he might try to escape again if released.
“As matters stand today, this global pandemic does not as of itself provide grounds for Mr Assange’s release,” Judge Vanessa Baraitser said.
Currently in London’s Belmarsh prison, Assange is wanted for questioning in the US for allegedly hacking and publishing military databases. The 48-year-old says the charges are politically motivated.March 26, 2020 at 19:05 #51152michael norton
The number of people in the U.K. who have died with coronavirus has jumped by more than 100 in a day for the first time.
The death toll has risen from 475 to 578, health officials have confirmed.
Some have been suggesting that several million people in the U.K. have already been infected by the virus.March 27, 2020 at 07:21 #51157SA
The government’s response to the Covid-19 epidemic has been slow and negligent. This incompetent regime is now contributing to unnecessary deaths of its own citizens. These are the steps that were either faulty or too slow or wrong decisions taken:
1. The government did nothing despite the warning of an epidemic and wasted two months of precious time without any plans, perhaps hoping that it will all go away. Like some conspiracists they probably thought that it was just the flu and there is no need to panic
” ‘For Unknown Reasons They Waited. And Watched’ – Lancet Editor Exposes Devastating Government Failure On Coronavirus”
2. When the response came the government was still planning to do nothing but to let the infection rip through the population, introducing the idiotic ill-conceived and out of context concept of ‘herd immunity’
Britain’s chief scientific adviser stoked controversy on Friday when he said that about 40m people in the UK could need to catch the coronavirus to build up “herd immunity” and prevent the disease coming back in the future. Defending Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s decision not to follow other European countries by closing schools and banning mass gatherings, Patrick Vallance said it was the government’s aim to “reduce the peak of the epidemic, pull it down and broaden it” while protecting the elderly and vulnerable.
Later on, when the Times leaked that it was the idea of Dominic Cummings No 10 Vehemently denied it.
Given past form and the power that Cummings holds over the hapless clown, it really does not surprise me that even Vallance, the ex GSK government scientific advisor (more like a political appointment) was leant upon to deliver this drivel. Later when the WHO, the scientific community and even the press denounced this as a dangerous policy, the government, on the 17th March did a public U turn but in essence continued with the same flawed policy secretly as I will discuss below.
“Johnson government admits its strategy of allowing the virus to spread and build up immunity was a failure but stops short of mandatory controls.”
3. But Johnson (and Cummings) did not really change course even if the public stance was changed. The restrictions introduced were not mandatory as discussed in the articles above and did not extend far enough. As a result, everyone instead of self-isolating went on a celebratory last drink and the next day the nation enjoyed an unscheduled public holiday in crowded parks in the sun, thereby speeding up the possibility of dissemination of the virus. Panic hoarding also ensued, and supermarket deliveries were inundated. This showed that the UK has no strategic planning whatsoever for major emergencies.
4. Following the beginning of the steep rise in cases the government was unprepared even to issue protective appropriate face masks and downgraded the specifications recommended by the WHO to cheaper, unprotective masks. The NHS staff pleaded for days for this protective equipment and despite Matt Hancock’s assurance on Question Time on BBC1 on Thursday 19th, the problem does not seem to be totally resolved.
5. The government has been resistant to two very basic principles of infectious disease management: early case identification and isolation, and rigorous contact tracing. These methods are not standard methods in infection control, but have been demonstrated to work in South Korea, so as to even avoid more draconian social distancing measures. South Korea it appears has learnt this from a previous outbreak of MERS.
There was no and there still is not a policy of widespread testing as to whether anyone with mild symptoms has SARS Cov2 infection. Instead the government advocated, no testing of ‘mild case’, although from anecdotal evidence some of these mild cases later died, self-isolation and left these strong focuses of infection at home to infect other household members. This is actually applying ‘herd immunity’ by stealth through infecting whole households. In China instead they quarantined all mild cases in hotels and provided them with supplies. Unfortunately, a quick search only comes up with extensive MSM reporting when one of these hotels collapsed killing several people. But this realisation, that mild cases will make the disease difficult to control was realised by china in mid-January and this was published in the BMJthis was published in the BMJ
Without widespread testing of mild cases, quarantine of confirmed mild cases, contact tracing, the epidemic will continue in UK even if the ‘curve is flattened’. The insane policy perused by the British government with not much resistance by the medical community is extremely alarming.
I am afraid we have all been hoodwinked, the government is carrying out its ‘herd immunity’ mass experiment on us by stealth.March 27, 2020 at 08:50 #51160Willie
So we’re short of 10,000 doctors and 40,000 nurses.
And we’re desperately short of ventilators, face masks type 2 and 3,and other PPE
We’re also short of testing kits and in fact stopped testing.
Strong and stable Conservative Government. The country is a grim joke. People will die, and die in numbers due to the greed, arrogance and brutal incompetence of this government. Decisions made by donkeys, driven by a hatred of the poor, where people earning less than £26,500 were considered economic dross. Yet that’s the people, the delivery drivers, the food packers, the crop pickers, many of the nurses, certainly all of the carers. Together with the bin men, sewage plant operatives, bus drivers these are the people we need to rely on. The economic cross as the Conservatives classed them.
And as for the doctors, well they’re fighting the virus with inadequate masks, other ppe and the equipment to save lives, and which equipment could have been sources under EU cooperation were it not for Brexit belligerence.
Yes when this is over we need to hunt down the men who did this like we hunted down war criminals after the Second World War. Change is coming. Things will never be the same again.March 27, 2020 at 10:41 #51162michael norton
Now more than 1/2 million people world wide have been infected by Wuhan Virus.
Epicentre has now moved to
The AmericasMarch 27, 2020 at 12:58 #51163Magic Robot
PHE’s epidemic intelligence activities monitor global HCID events. These are published in a monthly summary in the form of a pdf file. The summaries followed monthly, right through 2019, up to the December bulletin, thus:
In that issue, the ‘Global high consequence infectious disease events Monthly update December 2019’ we have ‘UNDIAGNOSED DISEASE Events Wuhan, Hubei Province, China. In late December, an outbreak of viral pneumonia of unknown aetiology was identified in Wuhan. Many, but not all cases were linked with a seafood and live animal market in the city (Huanan South
China Seafood Market). The cause was SUBSEQUENTLY IDENTIFIED as a novel coronavirus. A FULL UPDATE WILL BE PROVIDED IN THE JANUARY 2020 SUMMARY.’ (uppercase added).
No information is given at all as to who, how, where or when the cause became known, and no further bulletins have been publicly issued since!
But then, a new single webpage format report was issued by the UK government thus:
‘Covid-19 has not been an HCID (high consequence infectious disease) in the UK since the 19th March 2020, when it was declassified by Public Health England (PHE) and NHS, and also by The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) who were also of the opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID.
An HCID is defined as:
an acute infectious disease
typically has a high case-fatality rate
may not have effective prophylaxis or treatment
often difficult to recognise and detect rapidly
ability to spread in the community and within healthcare settings
requires an enhanced individual, population and system response to ensure it is managed effectively, efficiently and safely’
On the very same day, the 19th, Prime Minister Boris Johnson then announced measures unheard of in a supposed ‘democracy’ – ‘lockdowns’, threats, no freedom to work or for recreation. A curfew in all but name.
This has become a political, not a medical, matter.March 27, 2020 at 15:13 #51166SA
Nonsense. The question of declassification has been discussed on the main thread. It is a question of high mortality (more than 10%) lack of treatment and infectivity. Because Covid 19 does not have a high mortality and because practically you can only treat HCID In high security units, this declassification was made.
It is a very dangerous thing for those with limited knowledge to fable in specialised fields and interpret them. That is why we have expertsMarch 27, 2020 at 15:15 #51167SA
Please Michael use the official name of the virus not the Americanised political one.March 27, 2020 at 15:54 #51169michael norton
I still adhere to the strong possibility that this virus got out of the Wuhan Level Four Lab,
I suspect they were “playing” with a virus they obtained from an animal, maybe a pangolin, possible one of the operatives got infected within the lab, then took it out into the wider community.March 28, 2020 at 08:15 #51175SA
I think we should try and stick to facts and if we hear rumours we should do a bit of research before disseminating these rumours. There is zero evidence that the virus was man made. Although I like to quote primary scientific evidence in support of this, sometimes these reports make rather dense reading for those not used to them, but here is a very easy to read article which explains why this virus is not manmade.March 28, 2020 at 10:05 #51177michael norton
I am not saying the virus was man made.
I am saying they have different viruses in The Wuhan Institute of Virology and it is possible a virus got out.
The pandemic was first noticed not that far from The Wuhan Institute of Virology.March 28, 2020 at 12:31 #51182SA
You still have zero evidence for this. Did you read the papers attached?March 28, 2020 at 12:45 #51183michael norton
I have never been to China,
I do not speak Mandarin or any other language spoken in China,
I therefore have no reliable knowledge of what they get up to in China.
The so called covid-19 was apparently first detected or accepted as detected in Wuhan, in Hubei Province China.
The only accredited Level Four Lab in China is conveniently at the epicentre of the outbreak.
Go figure.March 28, 2020 at 18:45 #51195SA
Please read this article that goes into details of why this is not the case.March 30, 2020 at 10:51 #51219SA
It seems that science and common sense has been suspended in Britain. Maybe the process started in 2016 with the referendum but with each step since then including, the nonsensical Brexit negotiations with the dithering May leadership and the far right advocates of hard Brexit, to the choice of the inept Johnson as leader of the Tories, the general elections of the 12th December 2019 then the government’s shambolic handling of the Corona virus crises. Where are the Doctors and Scientists protesting en masse against this debacle?
The basic rules of dealing with an epidemic have been suspended. The government has concentrated at the wrong end of problem because they were like rabbits caught in the headlight. The focus was on the more glamorous treatment end of the illness, not at prevention. Why does Johnson want to concentrate on getting Dyson to make ventilators, when we have no PPE for our frontline workers? Why struggle for weeks to deliver these when they say they have got them?
Prevention of epidemics extracts from https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/112656/9789241507134_eng.pdf;jsessionid=F7869B94D27897997E246F963888DEB0?sequence=1
Recommendations for early recognition and source control
“Early recognition of ARIs (Acute respiratory infections) and application of source control, including respiratory hygiene, are administrative control measures aimed at reducing or preventing the dissemination of infectious agents from the source. The early identification, isolation and reporting of ARIs of potential concern are therefore central to effective containment and treatment. “
In summary you will need to try and limit the influx of cases from outside your country if there is a pandemic. This has run fowl of the EU principle of free flow of people, and in the case of the globalist agenda od free flow of capitalists but not necessarily workers. To this day I don’t think UK has entirely closed its borders and flights although the numbers are diminished.
Also measures that would help would be to monitor all those entering the country with temperature monitors, testing and isolation of newcomers until shown to be negative.
A rigorous widescale identification of all cases should be an integral part of this policy with the aim of early identification and quarantine of all cases including mild cases and asymptomatic carriers, who should all be quarantined on identification. Contact tracing and testing should also follow.
Importantly, one of the first steps to take would also to protect your frontline workforce, something that has been very slow to implement. None of these measures were adopted in UK, despite the clear efficacy of these measure shown in stemming the epidemic in both Wuhan and China in general, and South Korea and other Asian countries. Instead our government advocated self-isolation of mild suspected case at home with their families thus increasing the pool of carriers and cases.
Social distancing should really have been much stricter and at the outset. This should have meant a much stricter curfew with restriction of travel for only essential workers rather than the wishy-washy go to work only if you cannot work from home. This gaping disclaimer means that construction, manufacturing and other considerable labour force are free to roam the streets. And then there is the loophole of exercise and cycling and so on, difficult to distance yourself from joggers and cyclists coming at speed in narrow roads and lanes. Many of these also continue their habit of congregating in number.
These measures of cutting the supply of new cases was one adopted by the Chinese successfully. But it requires the state to run huge quarantine facilities as well as home delivery service for the self-isolating population. So, the Tories opted out for the wishy-washy measures which translates to the worst option.
The focus on treatment rather than prevention has been the major downfall of the West because when the treatment facilities are very quickly swamped and the call for more ventilators is a focus on treatment that is useless. This is especially so because the government has asked non-specialists to develop ventilators from scratch. This of course may be possible but would take a long time to design construct and then adequately test and validate. If the government is earnest about this, they should seek established manufacturers with validated machines, because we can’t wait for a year to get our own machines. Anyway, this highlights another Tory ideological nonsense. Thatcher and subsequent governments have systematically dismantled industry in this country in favor of financialization dictated by the city of London. Now even so-called home-grown incubators are probably going to be made in Asia by a British tax haven refugee.March 31, 2020 at 05:37 #51240Kim Sanders-Fisher
This Must Read Article will hit you like a sledgehammer: “The Hammer and the Dance” Author Tomas Pueyo describes: “What the Next 18 Months Can Look Like, if Leaders Buy Us Time.” The piece includes a lot of useful graphs to elaborate on the basic point he is trying to get across. He calls out our tepid response: “The US and UK, like countries such as Switzerland, have dragged their feet in implementing measures.” Pueyo lays out the likely consequences of a “Do Nothing” approach with the reality check that: “If 5% of your cases require intensive care and you can’t provide it, most of those people die. As simple as that.”
The author also raises an important point about: “Collateral Damage: These numbers only show people dying from coronavirus. But what happens if all your healthcare system is collapsed by coronavirus patients? Others also die from other ailments.” Quoting the number of ICU admissions in the US in one year as 4 Million the likely death toll if there was no place for these patients in ICU is staggering. With a far smaller population in the UK the potential collateral damage fatalities in the UK added to Covid 19 deaths would be unacceptably high.
The case presented by Pueyo clearly demonstrates that we cannot afford to overwhelm our NHS, but unfortunately we appear to be right on track for doing just that if we do not impose stricter measures right away, but also start aggressively testing and tracing to track down and isolate cases before they spread the virus. It does not inspire confidence or reassure the public that the PM is taking the necessary measures seriously when not only has Boris Johnson tested positive, but also the Health Secretary, Mat Hancock plus the PMs Chief Medical Adviser, Chris Whitte, has developed mild symptoms and decided to self-isolate and so has “Herd Immunity” advocate, Dominic Cummings. Are Whitte and the Dom postponing testing to avoid Boris’s “take it on the chin” bravado looking more like a total wipe out?
As I wrote in the Forum where we Focus on that other crisis, the Covert 2019 Rigged Election: “The simplistic sound bites delivered by jovial Johnson often pose far more questions than answers due to his complete lack of understanding of the most basic principals involved in effective “Social Distancing.” A less confusing instruction was needed to instil the concept in everyone including children: “Avoid People and the Things that People Touch!” That would be my simple instruction as it includes the missing part of the Covid 19 contamination puzzle that is barely mentioned in health warnings: “the things that people touch.”
You might avoid contracting the virus from an infected person by keeping a safe distance apart, but then pick up the bug from the door handle they grabbed just before you touched it yourself. We must become a lot more conscious of the things that we all come in direct contact with so frequently every day as the virus will survive on hard surfaces for up to 72hours. Carry a supply of antimicrobial wipes with you in a Ziploc bag and wipe the door handle, the ATM keypad, the access or lift button, before you touch it. This is just one more line of defence to include in your armoury.”
Worried about my best friends living down in London I found this Vox Article very informative: “11 things everyone should know about getting the novel coronavirus; If you have Covid-19 symptoms, here’s when to seek medical care and how to protect the people you live with.” I was pleasantly surprised that this US article pointed to a number of resources available to various groups, after being led to believe that Americans were universally stranded with no options due to abysmal Trump policies. While I know the situation is not great in the US and there are huge problems caused by their for-profit healthcare system, perhaps at least some of the finger pointing on our part is the pot calling the kettle black. For example their access to testing is criticized as very poor, but in the UK it is virtually non-existent even for Medical staff.
I found the information a lot clearer and more comprehensive than UK Government dictates that are so often contradictory; like an NHS instruction not to go for a walk as if the very act of venturing outside would expose you to the virus. Then you are told it is OK to walk a dog as if dogs somehow confer immunity! Taking fresh air is not a danger in and of itself, you just need to be cognisant of the fact that the last person to grab that handrail you are reaching for might have contaminated the rail. Does that mean you can no longer reach out for support going down steps outside of stairs inside a block of flats? No; just wipe before you touch or keep something between your bare hand and the potentially contaminated rail, door handle or other object.
That is why instead of hoping that the public will safely interpret what is meant by the term “Social Distancing” it makes a lot more sense to tell people something so simple even a small child can understand: “Avoid People and the Things that People Touch.” Another kid friendly message is: “Use your elbow, your bum, your foot; Think ahead to give Covid 19 the boot!” I am told invoking football imagery engages the attention of young lads and lassies; said she who has no kids, just a wild imagination like a wilful brat.
Why can’t this Tory Government develop a consistent strategy? Because their policy is driven by the need for damage control over serious blunders in policy like the support for Herd Immunity from which they are back-peddling at speed. The Tory “Herd” at number ten is in stampede mode; how many more will fall victim in the Government’s own “do as I say, not as I do” hotspot? This complication might slow the pace of their reckless agenda, but not for long. We should have fought back after the Covert 2019 Rigged Election, but we lapsed into a fatalistic complacency allowing the Boris Shit about “borrowed votes” to take hold.
But it is still not too late to “Rescue our Watchdog” and demand a thorough investigation into the stolen Election. I know many of you feel that the Covid 19 crisis demands our urgent attention and right now this must remain our priority. But Covid 19 and the Covert 2019 Rigged Election are inextricably linked. Unless we remove this Tory Government from office we will be forced to accept the tragic consequences of their dangerous decisions that will continue to put so many innocent lives at risk and the “Slaughter of the Sheeple” will proceed unabated.March 31, 2020 at 07:29 #51242SA
I have seen, and looked through ‘The Hammer and the Dance’ by Pueyo. It is an excellent piece of work. In his graph he shows the dance bit which includes case identification and contact tracing. I think this should come earlier.
I don’t think the government has really abandoned their herd immunity theory just toned it down because it was rubbished almost immediately, and by none other than the Football clubs who voluntarily cancelled the matches, against HMGs wishes.
I think there should have been a wider use of curfew and quarantine earlier. Borders should have been shut except for essential travel, planes grounded, social isolation strictly applied and also wide testing including strict quarantine of all cases, mild and asymptomatic cases. This would have meant a huge organisational effort by the government to be able to provide widely early testing, have the capacity to provide quarantine facilities, and organise food and essentials delivery to those self isolating at home. This is what S Korea did early on, and China did after they had a major rise in cases and both were successful at containing the virus so far.
But the government has only started half hearted testing and still of selected groups. Letting people with mild disease stay at home with their families only means that their families will get infected. Letting people out to shop, only makes exposure to the virus on that trip more likely. I also disagree with the exercise bit, because it contains ambiguities and you need clarity of message. Not everyone understands that going out in the fresh air increases chances of infection, and not only by what you do but by what others do. In lanes and in parks, people went out en masse to celebrate the holidays.
The above measures would have required a level of organisation that would have required a major epidemic contingency plan to be enacted smoothly. Do we have one? Are we really prepared in this country for a major terrorist conventional or bio attack, let alone boasting of stopping a Russian hostile action which we periodically boast of.
The emperor has no clothes.
We have no contingency plans, or if we have, we don’t know where we filed it.March 31, 2020 at 08:05 #51243SA
I wrote this earlier but did not post it. It repeats and elaborates on what I say in the last post.
Harmful actions taken by UK government
Of course, it is easy to criticise with hindsight, but some actions taken by HMG were bizarre to say the least and, in my opinion, have caused a lot of harm and will continue to do so unless reversed.
The government was slow to announce any decisive measures. The first announcement by the PM was on 11th March a full two months after it was clear that there was a likely major problem. The announcements seem to be advisory and, in many cases, not subjected to detailed reasoning. HMG’s herd immunity model, based on expert opinion, was not published and given in front of journalists with little medical or scientific scrutiny.
When it became clear that many public bodies and organisations were going to go against the government’s simple recommendations to ‘wash your hand’ and self-isolation for the elderly, football matches and public events were voluntarily cancelled, and the government then di a bit of a U turn which was not quite a U turn. The next announcement was that they government is thinking of introducing bans, then followed by recommendations to stay home but not clear instructions and with no promise of enforcement. The result was that instead of going home to practice social distancing, everyone went out to the pubs and streets to celebrate the great national holidays. Panic buying then set in and the shops and supermarkets became an excellent breeding ground for dissemination of the virus. Even the PMs father unashamedly advertised his visit to the pub. Next day the nation went to celebrate by visiting parks and open spaces in large numbers also further facilitating the obviously still favoured herd immunity approach. The National Trust kindly obliged by opening all there parks free for all the public.
The instructions about social distancing given to the nation then is even today:
• shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible.
• one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle – alone or with members of your household.
• any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid or escape risk of injury or harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person.
• travelling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home.
This is not a curfew or as they prefer to call it a lockdown, it is a wishy-washy request to stay at home if possible. The instructions about travelling for work purposes do not limit this to essential workers but to anyone who wants to work.
The total lack of preparation translated to the complete lack of a general disaster planning on a national scale, the lack of supplies of essential protective gear for essential workers such as healthcare workers and others, no appropriate protective masks or aprons, and so on. This left the healthcare workers in despair.
The lack of logistic planning has also showed itself in even food and home supplies. HMG announced that it had co-ordinated with supermarkets to ensure supplies something all major supermarkets denied. Then after the panic buying there was no central organisation to coordinate supplies of food to those who are self-isolating. This is happening slowly but a lot of it is being co-ordinated locally by volunteers. Many supermarkets are still unable to undertake home deliveries to existing customers let alone register new ones.
But to cap it all as if all this fiasco is not enough Prince Charles, The PM Boris Johnson the Health secretary and Professor Iain Ferguson and the Chief medical advisor were all announced to have mild symptoms and ‘tested positive’ for the virus. Moreover, it was said that the PM was in isolation 10 Downing street receiving his parcels of food and work in isolation. One of his advisors was seen running away from no 10 when caught by the cameras, evidently because he has been to see the PM, whilst Carrie, the PMs pregnant girlfriend has moved out, a luxury not open to the general public. Yesterday it was announced that Cummings also ‘tested positive’ for the virus.
This little vignette illustrates as to what is wrong with the current UK regime: Do as I say not as I do. Prominent members of those taking care of us supposedly are not even capable of taking care of themselves. Then of course Jo Bloggs would not have been tested and his pregnant wife would have had to self-isolate with him. Of course, the PM being very important can have the luxury of the quarantine in the lavish accommodation of his official residence.
Repeatedly Mr Hancock assured us that PPE was on its way to the NHS frontline but a week later this does not seem to have happened. Similarly, we were promised wider testing and this has not yet happened.
Does the UK have no strategy to deal with major disasters including pandemics, large terrorist incidents with conventional or biological attacks, let alone attacks from an outside power? Do we have two aircraft carriers roaming the oceans but are unable to protect our own people from a virus we have been warned about for two months? Will there be an enquiry as to why things went so badly wrong. Indeed will there be an enquiry as to how the elections were stolen and we ended up with such an incompetent government?March 31, 2020 at 09:47 #51244michael norton
I am not trying to be clever.
All I am saying is there is only one internationally accredited Level Four Laboratory in China, it happens to be situated in Wuhan.
Wuhan is where this disease is supposed to have kicked off.
The Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV; Chinese: 中国科学院武汉病毒研究所; pinyin: Zhōngguó Kēxuéyuàn Wǔhàn Bìngdú Yánjiūsuǒ) is a research institute on virology administered by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS). Located in Jiangxia District, Wuhan, Hubei, it opened mainland China’s first biosafety level 4 (BSL–4) laboratory in 2015
I am not saying this is a man made virus.March 31, 2020 at 18:57 #51265Tatyana
Hi there 🙂 my region is on quarantine from 18 p.m. today. 17 people tested positive out of nearly 5 million region population. Either the number of deceased is enlessened, or preventive steps are strict. Anyway, much time to spend on here 🙂
I’m bring8ng you this:
the severity of COVID-19 impact may be linked to varying national policies on BCG childhood vaccination’
Seems like a very possible explanation of the difference between China and Italy. What do you think?March 31, 2020 at 19:04 #51266Kim Sanders-Fisher
With planes grounded, cruise ships eager to discharge passengers, millions of people avoiding public transportation as most factories, businesses, offices, shops and leisure outlets close, we are commuting far less as people work from home, games and events are postponed: The Blue Planet, precious Mother Earth is taking a long, deep breath of fresh air! I have experienced unique environments untouched by the distressing pollution of our destructive human intervention. After so many years of sailing to incredible places throughout the world, from remote atolls in the South Pacific to the raging drama of the Southern Ocean on the Whitbread race: I am truly passionate about protecting our planet!
As the pandemic spreads its deadly tentacles worldwide I worry most about the poor in countries where I have witnessed firsthand the devastating impact of our morally bankrupt policy of scavenging Medical staff from countries that cannot afford to train them. Their hospitals are already routinely overwhelmed with patients they struggle to treat with minimal supplies and donated outdated equipment; they have no spare capacity of ICU beds to prolong the life of those hit by the Covid 19 virus! Unlike Ebola we will be less willing or even able to help them out as our own healthcare system reels from the scourge of this disease.
We must find more affordable solutions for treatment of the afflicted or countless millions will perish in the developing world. The much maligned island nation of Cuba may come to the rescue with treatments they have been developing in cooperation with the Chinese, but Boris Johnson might need to stop his rabid anti-Commie rant and some eat humble pie! The the Chinese National Health Commission listed the Cuban anti-viral drug Interferon alfa-2b among the treatments it is using for Covid-19 patients. The admirable Cuban policy of Medical Diplomacy has bought Doctors and Medical training to so many poorer countries throughout the world in a spirit that we should emulate. Infectious disease can so readily incubate in squalor and abject poverty, but rapidly arrive on the next jet to land at Heathrow. It takes a global Pandemic for us to realize we are all in this together and we need to collaborate for survival.
One potentially more affordable salvation for less affluent communities and for us in the UK, following our disastrous strategy of doing too little too late, is the amazing life-line offered by an innovative piece of rapidly reengineered kit that could reduce the need for full ventilation or at least slow the progression of Covid respiratory symptoms to the point of ICU support. The new design is an adaptation of a very familiar piece of equipment called C-Pap, Continuous Positive Airway Pressure, which has been used in the past for people whose heavy snoring reduces their O2 stats overnight.
The Guardian Article: “F1 team helps build new UK breathing aid for Covid-19 patients” describes how the device was rapidly reengineered, developed and built in less than a week through a collaborative effort between Medics and Engineers to meet the urgent demands posed by the Covid 19 crisis. Cpap devices have already proven their efficacy with Covid 19 patients the article points out after “being used extensively in hospitals in Italy and China, bridge the gap between an oxygen mask and full ventilation.”
Here in the UK we already use this apparatus in our hospitals and it’s safe enough for sleep apnoea patients to use at home, but they are currently in short supply according to the piece. “The device delivers a steady stream of oxygen and air to patients who are struggling to breathe and can be used on standard wards, unlike ventilation, which requires patients to have an invasive procedure and sedation in an intensive care unit. The vital breathing aid that was designed “to keep Covid-19 patients out of intensive care has been delivered to London hospitals for clinical trials.”
At a point where we desperately crave an item of positive news we heard that the “Engineers from UCL and Doctors at University College London hospital (UCLH) developed the device, which is claimed to be an improvement on existing Cpap systems, with Mercedes Formula One in less than 100 hours from first meeting to first production model. The device has been approved by the UK’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency.” This development could be a real game changer in the battle to avoid overwhelming our NHS as preventing or postponing the requirement for more complex ventilation equipment in the ICU could cost the lives of multiple Covid 19 patients and reduce the Collateral Damage impact of running out of ICU beds as described in the Hammer and the Dance.
This could buy us a little more time, but we cannot afford to squander a single second of that brief reprieve. Just as that remarkable innovative team raced to build this novel piece of kit in short order, we must drastically increase the both the pace and the extent of testing. Obviously the testing should start with frontline NHS staff, but it should not continue as a random patchwork of widely variable provision. We must continue with a comprehensive lock-down, accept the social distancing, but also vigilantly track down all contacts, tracing all suspected cases for strict isolation. If we do not take Covid 19 a lot more seriously, we cannot possibly hope to succeed it totally eradicating this highly infectious disease.
Covid 19 is not the only time sensitive crisis that we have failed to take seriously enough and suffered the consequences of inaction and Tory blundering. Thankfully it is not too late to “Rescue our Watchdog” and demand a thorough investigation into the Covert 2019 Rigged Election as this urgent issue is just as pressing as Covid and the two are inextricably linked. Unless we totally remove this Tory Government from office we will be forced to accept the tragic consequences of their dangerous decisions that will continue to put multiple lives at risk as buying ourselves more time will not bring the Tory’s dystopian nightmare scenario to an end.March 31, 2020 at 19:10 #51268Tatyana
I found the report
“…countries without universal policies of BCG vaccination (Italy, Nederland, USA) have been more severely affected compared to countries with universal and long-standing BCG policies…”March 31, 2020 at 19:17 #51270michael norton
The United Kingdom now has a worse Death Rate
Over 1700 now dead from Covid-19 in U.K.April 1, 2020 at 08:22 #51285SA
The reasoning behind this is that BCG, used for vaccination against TB, primes the cellular immune response so that it can react in a stronger and quicker way not only to TB but to other organisms. This concept was the basis of trials in the 70’s and 80’s to enhance the response of children with leukaemia, so that they can produce cells that can fight residues of the leukaemia after the number of cells were reduced with chemotherapy. The trials showed some promise but this did not translate to a real advantage so that this treatment was abandoned.April 1, 2020 at 08:41 #51286SA
This website is extremely important in keeping an eye of what is going on globally with Covid-19. It is a dashboard that shows the number of cases worldwide, the number of deaths and also has the facilities to show this in individual countries. It also shows through a bar chart daily increase in cases. This can be shown by pressing a tab towards the bottom right hand side labelled ‘Daily Increases’. If you do this you can see a number of patterns. Pattern one, unabated daily exponential increase and this can be seen in the US figures which is now heading towards 200,000. Exponential increase, with a doubling time of about 5 days, means that in the US if this trend continues there will be a one and a half million cases in about 20 days, unless the rate slows down due to the measures taken, which usually take two to three weeks. By clicking on each country on the left hand panel, you can see this rate in each country. Few countries are showing this exponential increase perhaps to a lesser extent, but this may also be a function of how late infection started in these countries. Perhaps the only other country showing this is Turkey.
The next pattern is that of either slower increase in cases or a levelling out of increase. This pattern is shown by UK, Iran and perhaps Canada.
The next pattern is that there is a slow decline of cases. The figures are not always neat, so that you may get a spike in the trend, but the important thing to look at is the overall trend over a period of 3-4 days and this is important because it shows that measures are working. Countries showing this pattern include, Germany, Austria, Belgium Italy and Spain (with the eye of faith) and other European countries.
The next pattern shows the efficiency of strict application of isolation measures, including quarantine of either whole towns, or of individuals with mild disease. This pattern is shown by China and South Korea.
So really we have models to work on and examples to follow and ways to monitor.April 1, 2020 at 08:44 #51287SA
I would not give too much importance to these figures. I think Iran has adopted, despite sanctions, a wider policy of testing and therefore will include more milder cases as a denominator. Because the UK policy is only to test severe cases, this is bound to increase the current recorded fatality rates. Maybe this would be the only incentive of the Tory government to introduce wider testing so that there figures are not that bad?April 1, 2020 at 08:53 #51288SA
The coincidence of A and B does not mean that A is responsible for B, unless of course there is evidence, So far the evidence from what I posted earlier is nil and there are good reasons to say so.
After all why did the Chines start this institute, which money countries have, including several in the US? The supposed reason is to do research on dangerous pathogens so that we are prepared to fight these pathogens. China has had to deal with SARS in 2003 and also with the swine flu virus and that is why these facilities were developed. As testified by the WHO this facilities comply rigidly with safety standards.
Of course I am not saying that some countries have been know to play around with the idea of using biological weapons and in fact some of these countries still possess chemical weapons. The attempt to frame China with this is a US ploy to divert from the real issues of Covid-19. To engage and promote these theories only helps the US warmongers’ agenda.April 1, 2020 at 09:17 #51289SA
There are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns.
These were the sage words of an otherwise discredited mass murderer during the reign of the Bush regime.
The current problem alerts us to things which we must keep in mind when dealing with the Covid-19 crisis.
We know that the Covid-19 crisis is real, we know now quite a lot about the virus and the way it behaves and we now have examples of how to, at least partially, effectively deal with it with the examples of China and South Korea and others.
We know that we do not know everything about the virus, importantly we do not know how many people are mildly infected and do not exhibit any symptoms when exposed to the virus. There are also many other details such as how infections are transmitted, although we have good ideas of some of the mechanisms. We also do not know why some people die and others get such mild diseases, although a lot of this seems to be age and co-morbidity related. We also do not know how to treat this or even whether supportive treatment with ventilators is of much use, as there is such a high mortality amongst those requiring ventilation. At this point we should therefore focus very much at preventing people to get to this stage rather than to advocate a kneejerk response of high cost sourcing more ventilators which may be of dubious efficiency. We also do not know whether immunity to this virus is long lasting, and we do not know whether there will be a successful vaccine yet.
The unknown unknowns: and here we move onto a new territory much advocated by some who like to find an underlying motive behind any disasters. Of course, there is such a thing as a deep state, and of course the deep state operates to exploit disasters for their purposes as shown by Naomi Klein’s famous book. For anyone in doubt, the crash of 2007 and the way it was handled, is ample proof of how the deep state reacted by rewarding the perpetrators of the crash, instead of reigning them in. They nationalised the liabilities but privatised the profits without conditions. This bit of knowledge is fraught with difficulties because not only are some of these unknown unknowns, but they are also unknowable unknowns. Theories that the virus was released by either the US or China are under this category, and theories that capitalists have crashed their own system to change the world belong to this category.April 1, 2020 at 10:33 #51291Tatyana
I saw a mention on BCG vaccine, that in 2018 someone researched its positive influence on Yellow Fever decease, also a viral pathogen