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Possibly true but the number affected is still very, very small. Long Covid also causes blood clots, on the lungs, which is the greater risk?
Personally, I don’t get why Ireland and other countries have supended the AZ vaccines whilst at the same time saying there is no evidence of a causal link. Perhaps there is information they are not making public.
David Spiegelhalter has written a good description of the numbers.Is the EU politically poking AZ because of the ongoing spat over delivery failures? Is there something else going on?
ET, thanks for the David Spiegelhalter link; looks like you’re using an Apple iThing:
https://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html
– “Pfizer told their investors recently that as soon as next year [when booster vaccinations will be required] they’re going to be moving away from “pandemic pricing” and towards price points that are on par with other vaccines that they have on the market, at $150 or $175 per dose,”
If I remember rightly, that’s over fifty times AstraZeneca’s fee, so I’d be astounded if there wasn’t an intense but covert industry campaign to spread fear of the AstraZeneca vaccine.
” looks like you’re using an Apple iThing”
Eh what? I must be missing something that’s gone over my head. I own no apple devices and never have.ET, maybe it’s to do with where you copied the Guardian link from. Look at the end of it; “?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other”.
That’s it Clark, I shared the link posted in this piece from here. It’s in the 5th paragraph.If I do a search engine search using the title of the piece that “?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other” bit is omitted from the link. Well spotted. I’ll try to be more careful in future.
Totally off topic but I believed Apple to be the more sinister privacy invasion tech for years and consequently never purchased an apple device (at least not for me). I’ve built my own PC’s for the last 20 years but still use windows mainly because of gaming. I use android phones and have rooted and used custom ROMs for all but my last phone. It is getting too damned hard to root. My perception now is that Apple is the less intrusive. I am aware of the defective by design concept but I don’t think Apple are the only company practicing that now. They all do. I used to service my own car but there is no way I can do that now because everything is made to be as hdden as possible and require specialised proprietary tools. God help us if we ever have a real catastrophe and need to be able to fix things.
The runners on the kitchen cabinet door for the fridge sheared off recently. My old eyes thought the screws were phillips head screws. Of course not. With my glasses and a bright torch I figured it out and fortunately have a box of magic that has all the types of screw heads. But seriously, FFS.
Rant over 😀In view of the ongoing British propaganda about a “disaster” in the EU but a “great success” in Britain, the following figures may be useful.
Numbers of reported deaths “with Covid-19” per 1 million population:
Britain 1847
USA 1656
Brazil 1335
EU 1310
South Africa 863
Russia 640
China 3Britain is doing 41% “worse” than the EU, worse than Brazil and South Africa, 12% worse even than the US (which for most of the past 12 months had an insane baby failed casino-owner for its president and has already lost more lives than it did in both WW1 and WW2 added together), about 3 times as badly as Russia, and hundreds of time worse than China. So maybe the pandemic wasn’t defeated on the playing fields of Eton as generations of privately-educated British rulers have told themselves Napoleon was.
Funny how “data boy Dominic” seemed to suggest yesterday that Britain was doing much better than the EU. Fan of Charles Murray and Steven Pinker that he is, he may well have a VERY different idea of what it means to do “well” in a pandemic than most of the rest of us have. I will never tire of saying that the patron saint of Tories and the British rulers generally is Thomas Malthus.
I can almost hear rightwingers respond with apoplexy to the above figures, saying they were probably prepared by foreigners, they’re misleading, only a traitor to the wise rulership of
Kim Jong-Unpublic schoolboys would dare think such a thing, horsewhipping is too good for anyone who says it, etc.So here it is again: the “data” says the EU is faring much better in this pandemic than the sh*tty little kingdom to its northwest.
N_, take a break and lighten up once in a while. Maybe engage with people and flesh out your ideas. I have to ask, what is your motivation for posting so prolifically?
People are being lied to and kept hooded in a very big way, @ET. The Beast is stretching.
“<i>what is your motivation for posting so prolifically?</i>”
Permit me to quote:
(Question): “How are we going to bankrupt the dominant culture?”
(Answer): “Two ways. Gradually at first, and then suddenly.”I will reply to the post in which you recommended a reading of the Moon of Alabama article later today or tomorrow.
N_, I feel your anger, but I don’t have structural understanding of it. I’m angry too; I’m furious with the government’s response to the pandemic.
But this pandemic is merely humanity’s trial run at handling global crisis; Arctic summer sea ice may be all gone in just fourteen years. There’s no complicated science involved; just extrapolate the graph of observed ice loss. The Arctic Ocean hasn’t been without sea ice for over 100,000 years, and when it was, sea level was at least eighteen feet higher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_sea_ice_decline
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/arctic-summer-sea-ice-could-be-gone-by-2035
Government responses are terrifyingly similar to those for the pandemic:
– Yet some find opportunities in the crisis. Melting ice has made the region’s abundant mineral deposits and oil and gas reserves more accessible by ship. China is heavily investing in the increasingly ice-free Northern Sea Route over the top of Russia, which promises to cut shipping times between the Far East and Europe by 10 to 15 days.
– The Northwest Passage through the Canadian Arctic Archipelago could soon yield another shortcut. And in Greenland, vanishing ice is unearthing a wealth of uranium, zinc, gold, iron and rare earth elements. In 2019, Donald Trump claimed he was considering buying Greenland from Denmark…
N_, I have no idea if would hold the outlook I do had my life been more privileged or fortunate. Richard Stallman took me to the first Bitcoin conference in London and I nearly bought £5000 worth; it would be worth about £300 million by now. Would I now be in Extinction Rebellion and still be posting on Craig’s blog? Or would I be completely distracted with personal adventures enabled by my economic freedom and power? I can’t possibly know, but the latter seems more likely. Class is just another accident of birth or circumstances, but we’re all stuck on planet Earth together, and we’ll all share her fate.
Maybe the dominant culture needs to be bankrupted.
I am sure you already know this N_ but you are under no oblgation to reply to me or anyone though it is good to hear/read another’s consideration. That Moon of Alabama article is just another angle.
Speaking of angles, where is our Dave, I kind of miss him. I hope he is well.Ah, ok. Things are possibly becoming a little more clear with the latest MHRA statement released.
“A further, detailed review into five UK reports of a very rare and specific type of blood clot in the cerebral veins (sinus vein thrombosis) occurring together with lowered platelets (thrombocytopenia) is ongoing. This has been reported in less than 1 in a million people vaccinated so far in the UK, and can also occur naturally – a causal association with the vaccine has not been established.”
I understand a little better why some countries were a little spooked though I don’t understand why they were not forthcoming with their reasoning. Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis is indeed very rare. I don’t know if the Norwegian cases were CVST nor the other cases in other countries but if they were can understand their hesitation a little better.
“A British man has died and four others have suffered a dangerous blood clotting condition after being given the AstraZeneca vaccine, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) confirmed on Thursday.
The five men, aged between 19 and 59, suffered from Cerebral Venous Sinus Thrombosis (CVST), although the MHRA said it did not know whether it had been directly caused by the vaccine.
The regulator urged people to continue getting the vaccine, adding that fewer than one in a million cases had been recorded after a jab and a causal link had not been established.
The condition is so rare that it is difficult to establish an underlying rate for the population.”
That last sentence is a classic. It’s as if two people who’ve both taken a new kind of pill at different ends of the country have both been found the next day with their heads turned round back to front, and then somebody says that since there are very few cases of that happening to people who haven’t taken the pill then we can’t say whether there’s a link.
As for “establish a causal connection”, those are fancy words. Do 17 committees have to meet, half the backhanders from AstraZeneca have to be put into escrow in the Channel Islands pending the possible award of even bigger contracts in the future, and proof established by “eckshpurts” at the 95% level before anybody should even consider the possibility that it might be safer NOT to accept this vaccine? When we are talking about blood clotting that is actually killing people right now in many countries, do you want to be 95% confident that a certain activity causes it before you stop doing it?
That’s pretty much exactly what Big Tobacco used to say about smoking. Asked “Do you accept that smoking causes lung cancer?”, the cartel’s line was always “it may”.
It is a fact that the government are pushing vaccination even on those who are known to be immune because like the prime minister himself (so we are told) they have had a very nasty SARS infection that caused them to require treatment in an intensive care unit. The number of people who have survived such bad cases of Covid-19 and then been infected again and had Covid-19 again (I’m not talking about “long Covid” here) is minuscule. I mean yes I am sure we can say that if they come into contact with 10000 times the viral load that made them ill the first time then there may well be an appreciable risk, but that is getting into the ridiculous. Enough with the bullsh*t arguments and questions such as “Can you be 100% sure of that?”
ET: “I am sure you already know this N_ but you are under no obligation to reply to me or anyone though it is good to hear/read another’s consideration.“
Indeed – this is supposed to be a Discussion Forum – emphasis on discussion – not just a dumping ground for whatever conspiracy or dubious prediction one wants to air dozens of times a day.
Anyway, didn’t Mystic N_eg flounce off a month or so back, saying he’d never return? Doesn’t he realise how silly one looks after doing that and then be seen hanging around?
I’d like to know the angle, too. First of all Covid-19 was just a trick, now the vaccines are – I don’t get it. The CTs/ denialists are all over the place, and the contortions necessary to try and shoe-horn data into their chosen theories are painful to watch. It’s obvious they treat any negative news about the vaccine with something approaching real glee, but it’s not obvious why.
The main urge might be that – one day – we’ll say to them, “Oh my! You were right all along, how astonishingly brilliant you are!”
N_
It really is a matter of statistics. If condition A occurs without an underlying cause in the general population at the frequency of 1 in 100,000 which is rare, and occurs with the same frequency or even less in those who had the Astra Zeneca vaccine than you cannot establish a direct link with the two events. If however 5 out of 100,000 who had the condition then have complication A then there may be a link. The same say would apply if several people who have had the vaccine were run over by a bus the next day, you wouldn’t ascribe this to the vaccine.This website gives some of the underlying causes that predispose to CVST
Amongst them is a group of rare disorders of the blood clotting mechanism and also autoimmune disorders. Some of these disorders are inherited but not everyone who inherits them will get a clot, other precipitating factors can then contribute to the clotting, such as post surgery or during pregnancy, or associated with infection or cancer, where there is a natural tendency also for the blood to clot more easily.
“That last sentence is a classic. It’s as if two people who’ve both taken a new kind of pill at different ends of the country have both been found the next day with their heads turned round back to front, and then somebody says that since there are very few cases of that happening to people who haven’t taken the pill then we can’t say whether there’s a link.”
If only two people had the pill and had their heads turned round back to front then you’d be right to be cautious (
scared out of your wits) if you were the next in line for that pill. If however 1 million people had been given that pill and only two had their heads turnrd round back to front and the other 999,998 people were fine you’d be justified not being too bothered about taking that pill. If head back-to-front syndrome has a background incidence of 2 in a million in those who have never had that pill…………then that pill doesn’t increase your risk.
C’mon N_, you know as well as anyone how statistics work.Good news from the EMA
COVID-19: European regulator says Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is ‘safe and effective’
The EMA says the Oxford jab is not linked to an overall risk of blood clots – but is still investigating a rare clotting disorder.
Thursday 18 March 2021 18:08, UKSA: “The same say would apply if several people who have had the vaccine were run over by a bus the next day, you wouldn’t ascribe this to the vaccine.”
Actually, he would. You don’t hear any of this nonsense about whether they had blood clots “with” the vaccine or “from” the vaccine, do you? Of course not. This particular bit of sophistry only works on one side of the equation when there’s an agenda to be worked.
Compare with the opposite approach when it comes to people dying “with” Covid-19 (even when they died from its obvious symptoms), pretending they didn’t die “from” it. There’s a definite agenda with these people, and it ain’t to get at the truth.
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It also seems like the vaccine has now been approved by the EU. Bummer eh, Mystic N_eg? Never mind, carry on working to undermine it and that will discourage people from taking the vaccine. A longer game, but you have got to work hard on behalf of the virus!N_, you are parading your innumeracy and flaunting your anti-scientific prejudice. You say not to trust “eckshpurts”, but also say this:
– “Do” [blah blah rhetorical blah] “before anybody should even consider the possibility that it might be safer NOT to accept this vaccine?”
Well why don’t you do the sums yourself then? It’s not hard. In fact, a wild guestimate will do. If, following millions of vaccinations there have been tens of cases of blood clots including a handful of deaths, whereas millions of cases of covid have resulted in tens of thousands of deaths, then even if all these blood clots are caused exclusively by the AZ vaccine, and the vaccine is say only 10% effective, it’s still hundreds of times safer to take the vaccine than not to.
The fact that you neglect to do the maths and instead leap to misleading rhetoric marks you out as an anti-vaxxer.
Then there’s this:
– “It is a fact that the government are pushing vaccination even on those who are known to be immune because like the prime minister himself…”
This is wrong on two counts:
1) The experience in Manaus, Brazil demonstrates that covid often does not impart immunity.
2) Vaccination stimulates far stronger antibody production than covid itself does.
And you’re not even honest. You dismiss “eckshpurts”, but parrot what they say if they happen to reinforce your preferred message. You do precisely what you’re accusing others of doing, and that’s hypocritical.
Vaccination now being resumed.
Yeah, good for all concerned. Now could EU and UK sort out the vaccine contractual stuff and do it quietly please. It doesn’t need to become Uk Vs EU.
Come on Kempe, own up; you’re obviously just an agent for the depopulation agenda 😀
The masks are here for a very long time, not because of a virus which is no longer a danger to the vast majority of
people, who have either been vaccinated or the majority who have contracted the virus without symptoms or very mild symptoms. It’s a form of control to shut people up and constantly remind them of a virus which imo has been exaggerated to instil fear by Government and media working in tandem. The economies of the world are in real jeopardy from these lockdown measures,
but most people are oblivious to the poverty, suffering and restriction of our freedoms which is going to happen for years if not decades to come.Fauci spars with Sen. Rand Paul: ‘Masks are not theater‘ (YouTube, 1m)
Masks are just a form of control, eh? Fascinating that every government, of every persuasion, should suddenly have leapt on this as a good thing. Even more fascinating that those that having invested so much in face recognition capabilities, decided to impose a non-essential measure that makes it useless.
Fascinating too, that every government just decided they’d like to damage their economies. Quite amazing that All Governments (inc) managed to get the medical establishments in every country to go along with the scam!
Totally amazing too, that All Governments (inc) decided they would like to make life miserable for their citizens for no reason whatsoever, the opposition all decided to get in on it too…
Quite, quite, astonishing. But wait! There is one much more obvious and simple explanation – that Covid deniers are a small subset of the population who know next to nothing, are terrified, easily fooled dupes who leap onto any half-baked conspiracy theory and think science is a hoax. Surely that couldn’t be the case? Naah… that’s far too far-fetched.
Masks are a form of control. The New World order is a fallacy?
Gordon Brown New World Order speech (YouTube, 2m 8s)
