List of countries that have suspended AstraZeneca vaccine because of bloodclots


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  • #68893 Reply
    N_

    Let’s see how many countries join the list without Britain joining. (In Britain the Astrazeneca vaccine is sometimes called the “Oxford” or “AstaZeneca-Oxford” vaccine, “Oxford” being a brand owned by the university that is based in that city.) Ireland joined today.

    In the following list, * means “better than Britain so far on death rate per 1 million population”. Oh look – it’s every country on the list.

    Austria *
    Denmark *
    Estonia *
    Lithuania *
    Luxembourg *
    Latvia *
    Italy *
    Norway *
    Iceland *
    Ireland *

    #68894 Reply
    N_

    The British queen claims to have been injected with a vaccine, but she refuses to say which one. (Source.)

    #68896 Reply
    N_

    The Netherlands (*) has now joined the list.

    Anyone who thinks the British rulers are unusually competent and have an unusually great love for “their natives” should disregard all of this information. They should put their fingers in their ears while shouting “All those foreign countries are only stopping giving the Astrazeneca vaccine because they’re stupid, unscientific, and jealous of their British betters!” (Best shouted while tugging their forelocks “gratefully”.)

    #68897 Reply
    N_

    Why is Britain out on a limb in connection with the Astrazeneca vaccine?

    Possibilities:

    1) Oxford University is based in Britain. Many leading politicians and civil servants went there, and they love going back to their old college for lunch.

    2) Freedom from liability. Since March 2020 Britain has had a law (sections 11-13 of the Coronavirus Act) that enables any medic etc. to be freed of liability from killing people by breaching their “duty of care”, both if the people killed are Covid patients and also if they are others to whom the medic is attending because of a rearrangement of duties in connection with the pandemic.

    Or maybe some other countries also have a law such as 2)??

    #68932 Reply
    N_

    The Astrazeneca vaccine may turn out to get banned in as many countries as the vaccines for pertussis (whooping cough) and MMR (measles, mumps, rubella). One difference being that lots of money has been paid out in compensation for (albeit only a small proportion of) the damage that’s been done by the pertussis and MMR vaccines, whereas the Coronavirus Act 2020 may prevent even a ha’penny being paid out in compensation for deaths caused by the Astrazeneca SARS-CoV2 vaccine.

    B-b-but the “experts” said to “protect the NHS”, and more generally the government always has the people’s interests at heart, so the vaccine must be good. Any statement to the contrary is an antisocial crime tantamount to undermining the wise leadership of Comrade Enver Hoxha, and the makers of statements are degenerates and disrespecters of Science who must be silenced!

    #68941 Reply
    N_

    From the BBC, or the “British Falsehood Corporation” as striking workers called it during the General Strike:

    Manufacturer AstraZeneca has said there is no evidence of a link between the two. [This means between the vaccine this company is selling and the blood clots that have caused more than 10 countries to suspend it – N_ note]. Dr Phil Bryan, vaccines safety lead at the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), said people ‘should still go and get their Covid-19 vaccine when asked to do so.’

    Oh – so the state is “asking” people to get vaccinated now, is it? A short while ago, it was “offering” us vaccination.

    #68947 Reply
    N_

    In her piece in the Torygraph, Miranda Levy sneers at working class people who dare to think about important stuff (presumably rather than sitting around all day sniffing glue or watching porn): “Wander into any of our (increasingly busy) parks and high streets, and chances are that snippets of conversation will float your way. ‘AstraZeneca,’ you might hear people say as they congregate in small, socially-distanced groups. ‘Oxford jab’… ‘Pfizer’… ‘side effects’.

    Ooh, that must give middle class people such amusement!

    Chris Smith, a virologist at the University of Cambridge and Addenbrooke’s Hospital [He’s also the “science communicator” who presents the radio show “The Naked Scientists” – there’s nothing like drawing attention by shouting “w*lly!” or “t*ts!” N_ note] (says that) some of these [post-vaccination] symptoms may not be down to the vaccine at all. ‘Just because you are feeling s—–y, it might not be because of the jab. It could be down to something else entirely,’ he says. ‘We have a tendency to attach significance to coincidence.’ Hence, that headache might be because of one glass of wine too many last night, that tiredness due to an extra-long run. [Yes, mate, and if you get vaccinated and then a bloodclot kills you, maybe it was a pre-existing bloodclot that would have killed you anyway – N_ note]”

    What a f***ing fraud!

    The British “expert” line continues at the time of writing to be that all of the foreign countries that have stopped giving out the Astrazeneca vaccine are proceeding on the basis of “no evidence”. In other words, the line is as follows:

    1. Foreigners are excitable, irrational, and do things either for no reason or because they’ve got some secret goal they’re not admitting
    2. British leaders are the world’s finest, honest and public-spirited, and you must do what they say. British journalists, medics, politicians and “experts” are all singing to the same national tune. “When you die, it’s probably because you’ve got alcohol poisoning, not for whatever reason you might suppose, you dirty prole who probably only found out there was something called ‘Astrazeneca’ last week.” “Kill yourelf for Britain.”

    What next – pals’ battalions?

    * never mind that Britain has had one of the world’s highest reported figures for deaths with Covid-19 per 1 million population – higher than in every country in Africa, Asia, and the Americas, and higher than most other countries in Europe too

    #68948 Reply
    ET

    Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Iceland and Ireland, have temporarily suspended the rollout of the AstraZeneca vaccine.
    Italy also followed Austria, Estonia, Latvia, Luxembourg and Lithuania in banning jabs from one particular batch of one million AstraZeneca vaccines, which was sent to 17 countries, after reports of a death.
    AstraZeneca vaccinations are continuing in other countries, including the United Kingdom and France and Germany.

    You are jumping off the deep end N_.
    All of the countries above have stated they have no direct evidence of a causal link yet. They are acting on the precautionary principle and are awaiting further evaluation of the data.
    According to AstraZeneca, there have been 15 instances of deep vein thrombosis and 22 events of pulmonary embolism reported among more than 17m people vaccinated in the European Union and UK. 37 events amongst 17 million. I’ve yet to see verification of that data or any other data suggesting the numbers are higher. The 4 cases from Norway were apparrently fit healthy under 50’s. Wait and see before you go off on one.

    #68960 Reply
    N_

    Germany (*) has now joined the list.

    France (*) will probably join soon.

    Oxford University’s brand managers seem to have told the British media to stop calling it the “Oxford jab” and to call it the “Astrazeneca” instead. Bit of a balls-up for Oxford’s public relations.

    @ET: your rhetorical techniques: “temporary”, “one particular batch”, “no direct evidence”, “awaiting further evaluation”, you have “yet to see verification”. The fact is that a growing number of foreign countries are cutting back on shooting this vaccine into people, owing to blood clotting and deaths, and the British press are saying that that’s because the foreigners aren’t expert enough, can’t think straight, or are in some other way up their own a*ses.

    Meanwhile in Britain (presumed source of the Britain variant B117) the Astrazeneca vaccine is even being given to those who are known to have had SARS-CoV2, who experienced symptoms, including in many cases severe symptoms, and who then recovered.

    Among those known to have been infected with SARS-CoV2 and who experienced symptoms and recovered, the reinfection rate is probably much higher among the vaccinated than among the unvaccinated. I haven’t seen a figure, but that’s certainly what it sounds like.

    The country in which such an unusually large proportion of people have DIED with Covid-19 is the very same country in which a vaccine has been developed which numerous other countries have cut back on or stopped doling out…and soon we may find that the only “market” left for it (perhaps excluding places such as Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands) is those who live inside the country who believe the country’s own “experts” and government leaders and who are told to take it by medics, whose contempt towards working class patients will grow from its already extremely high levels whenever such a patient even asks the question “which vaccine is it that you want to give me?”

    #68962 Reply
    ET

    @ N_
    I get the brand management bit and the jingoism, really I do. I am irish and the irish are very sensitive to that from UK (though not so sensitive to their own jingoism). To a large extent I agree with you on that point. The UK is not the only culprit in that. “Guaranteed Irish” (now long gone thanks to EU), ‘vorsprung durch technik,’ “made in USA,” “mis en bouteille au chateau”, thay all come from the same place.

    I am not using rhetorical techniques N_, I am stating what I have read. As far as I can discern what I have stated is true though Thailand has also now suspended AstroZenica vaccines. Here is what Stephen Donnelly, Irish health minister has to say. Temporary may evolve into permenant yet but for now it is temporary. The numbers reported so far are small and there are a host of other reasons why people may have had DVT’s or PE or haemorrhagic strokes. They are reports of reduced platelet counts which tend to cause haemorrhagic events rather than thrombotic events. (Reduced clotting tendency vs increased clotting tendency).
    DVT’s and strokes are common events N_, long before covid or the (covid) vaccines were a thing. A fortune is spent on thromboprophylaxis in the UK (and all over the world’s health services) and I mean billions a year.

    #68965 Reply
    ET

    Perhaps N_ you may want to consider a different viewpoint. The AstraZenica vaccine is a vector-based vaccine not an mRNA vaccine and is cheaper. Perhaps the current news is designed to reduce the public’s trust in the astrozenica vaccine and promote the others? See Moon of Alabama piece here.

    #68967 Reply
    N_

    France (*) is now on the list too.

    Britain will join the list soon. It’s not Sun readers the rulers are worried about – it’s the “educated” middle classes. Such types can sneer at proletarians who dare to use words like “Astrazeneca” and “side effects”, but many of them won’t want this sh*t going in their own arms…

    And remember – unlike the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, the AZ one is non-mRNA!

    #68969 Reply
    N_

    Thanks, @ET – I will print that out. If everything else were equal, it would be the mRNA ones that I was most scared of, and competition between multinationals is surely playing a part (which is not to say there aren’t fronts for the sector as a cartel), so I will read that article.

    #68971 Reply
    ET

    Are you still printing stuff out to read? Does that not cost you a fortune in ink cartridges? Not to mention the clutter of read, half read and not read stuff laying about?

    #69001 Reply
    Piotr+Berman

    … and soon we may find that the only “market” left for it (perhaps excluding places such as Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands) is those who live inside the country who believe the country’s own “experts” and government leaders and who are told to take it by medics, whose contempt towards working class patients will grow from its already extremely high levels whenever such a patient even asks the question “which vaccine is it that you want to give me?”

    In Ukraine, a cheaper version of Astra Zeneca, CovidShield, is the only vaccine offered to the population. So either you make wrong generalizations, or Ukraine should be put on the list of the current British colonies — over there, many people think exactly that (more precisely, Anglo-American condominium).

    #69018 Reply
    Kempe

    The general annual incidence of blood clots is 1-2 per 1,000. They are more common than some realise. Out of one million people it would be expected that 19-38 would develop blood clots of some severity or another every week. The majority are non-life threatening and clear up by themselves.

    The number of blood clots attributed to the AZ vaccine is insignificant; when compared to the general incidence it’s well within normal and the over-reaction by some nation states is utterly baffling.

    #69039 Reply
    ET

    “The makers of the Oxford/Astrazeneca vaccine were one of the only companies to explicitly pledge to sell doses at cost price during, and after, the pandemic. Pfizer, on the other hand, has not made a similar pledge.

    “Pfizer told their investors recently that as soon as next year [when booster vaccinations will be required] they’re going to be moving away from “pandemic pricing” and towards price points that are on par with other vaccines that they have on the market, at $150 or $175 per dose,” says Ramachandran. “When insurance companies have to shoulder this cost, they’re going to pass it down to us through our insurance premiums.”

    From this piece.

    “The TRIPS waiver was blocked by a small but powerful coalition of Western countries. The United States, Canada, Australia, the UK, Japan, Brazil and several European nations all opposed the proposal.”

    More on the blocking of the TRIPS waiver here.

    #69078 Reply
    N_

    Dominic Cummings today is giving evidence to a Commons committee. (He has been holding up a chart, like he’s Benjamin Netanyahu.) The media are fawningly saying he has “agreed” to give evidence. It used to be the case that the Commons could compel witnesses, but clearly nobody compels Dominic Cummings, and if he chooses to do something we must all thank him.

    The Guardian reports him as saying “The EU system has blown up over vaccines” and “That shows what happens when you have an anti-science bureaucracy like the one in Brussels.”

    Reading insane rubbish like that kinda detracts from the FACT that the proportion of reported deaths with Covid-19 per 1 million population have been far lower in the EU than in Britain. 24 out of 27 EU countries have had lower proportions than Britain.

    Which multinationals are behing the Advanced Research and Invention Agency, by the way, the Brit poshboy equivalent of DARPA? Is it basically Google and Apple?

    #69080 Reply
    N_

    Cummings’s ARIA bill contains the following

    Supplementary powers
    17(1) ARIA may do anything which appears to it to be necessary or expedient for the purpose of, or in connection with, the exercise of its functions

    It then gives a list after “in particular”, containing things like acquiring land, borrowing money, and “accepting gifts” (haha), but the words “may do anything which appears to it to be necessary or expedient [for its purposes]” makes it sound like a mediaeval chivalric order…

    I wonder what its symbol will be…

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by modbot.
    #69081 Reply
    N_

    Wow…Cummings to the committee: “There are some fields in which we are a superpower. The first thing that comes to mind is the genetic sequencing of Covid variants.”

    Cummings clearly doesn’t know what “Covid” means. Covid-19 is a syndrome, a collection of symptoms, an illness a person is showing that is thought to indicate a SARS-CoV2 infection or that is thought to result from an already known SARS-CoV2 infection. SARS-CoV2 is a variant of the SARS virus. Viruses can be genetically sequenced; illnesses can’t. An illness isn’t a virus. Maybe they didn’t teach him that when he was doing his classes on Bismarck and Thucydides at Oxford.

    Britain’s looking more like an about-to-go-bankrupt banana monarchy every day.

    #69083 Reply
    Tatyana

    @Kempe
    those blood clots caused by AstraZeneca are unusual
    here is CNN report
    https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-03-15-21/h_cee332fa071de4a0dcf3ba3cb465e52f

    … Norwegian National Institute of Public Health and the Norwegian Medicines Agency…

    The cases “present a rare disease picture,” the agency said: “They have a very unusual combination of low platelet counts, blood clots in small and large vessels and bleeding.”

    #69086 Reply
    ET

    When I first read the description of the cases from Norway I thought of Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation which is indeed rare to see but does happen particularly with sepsis. In this condition you have low paltelets because they are being activated too much and therefore used up and clotting in blood vessels.

    Btw, Happy St.Paddy’s day 😀

    #69088 Reply
    N_

    Boris Johnson says “the NHS” has called him about getting “his vaccine”. He says – as if he is a Mr Everyman – that he is now waiting for his “appointment”.

    WTF??? Why does someone who has already been infected with SARS-CoV2, and who suffered severe Covid-19 symptoms that caused him to need treatment in an intensive care unit, need to be vaccinated?? He’s immune! What are the possible benefits of him being vaccinated, either to himself or to others he comes in contact with? There aren’t any.

    #69089 Reply
    SA

    More like the anti phospholipid syndrome. Despite the low platelets thrombosis is more common than bleeding or haemorrhage.

    #69090 Reply
    ET

    No one knows for sure how long immunity lasts after being infected N_ though some estimates put it around 6 months. Also, no one knows as yet to what extent immunity from having been infected with one variant transfers to other variants. Same goes for the vaccines mind but there is evidence that they are protective against the current variants. It makes sense for him to be vaccinated.
    Aside from that it seems a bit daft that the Prime Minister is in a queue for vaccination. Surely him and probably all MP’s ought to be prioritised so thay can get on with their business. I suspect he has already been but is trying to encourage vaccine take up with the public.

    #69091 Reply
    Kempe

    Possibly true but the number affected is still very, very small. Long Covid also causes blood clots, on the lungs, which is the greater risk?

    #69092 Reply
    ET

    Personally, I don’t get why Ireland and other countries have supended the AZ vaccines whilst at the same time saying there is no evidence of a causal link. Perhaps there is information they are not making public.
    David Spiegelhalter has written a good description of the numbers.

    Is the EU politically poking AZ because of the ongoing spat over delivery failures? Is there something else going on?

    #69098 Reply
    Clark

    ET, thanks for the David Spiegelhalter link; looks like you’re using an Apple iThing:

    https://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple

    https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html

    “Pfizer told their investors recently that as soon as next year [when booster vaccinations will be required] they’re going to be moving away from “pandemic pricing” and towards price points that are on par with other vaccines that they have on the market, at $150 or $175 per dose,”

    If I remember rightly, that’s over fifty times AstraZeneca’s fee, so I’d be astounded if there wasn’t an intense but covert industry campaign to spread fear of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

    #69099 Reply
    ET

    ” looks like you’re using an Apple iThing”
    Eh what? I must be missing something that’s gone over my head. I own no apple devices and never have.

    #69101 Reply
    Clark

    ET, maybe it’s to do with where you copied the Guardian link from. Look at the end of it; “?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other”.

    #69102 Reply
    ET

    That’s it Clark, I shared the link posted in this piece from here. It’s in the 5th paragraph.If I do a search engine search using the title of the piece that “?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other” bit is omitted from the link. Well spotted. I’ll try to be more careful in future.
    Totally off topic but I believed Apple to be the more sinister privacy invasion tech for years and consequently never purchased an apple device (at least not for me). I’ve built my own PC’s for the last 20 years but still use windows mainly because of gaming. I use android phones and have rooted and used custom ROMs for all but my last phone. It is getting too damned hard to root. My perception now is that Apple is the less intrusive. I am aware of the defective by design concept but I don’t think Apple are the only company practicing that now. They all do. I used to service my own car but there is no way I can do that now because everything is made to be as hdden as possible and require specialised proprietary tools. God help us if we ever have a real catastrophe and need to be able to fix things.
    The runners on the kitchen cabinet door for the fridge sheared off recently. My old eyes thought the screws were phillips head screws. Of course not. With my glasses and a bright torch I figured it out and fortunately have a box of magic that has all the types of screw heads. But seriously, FFS.
    Rant over 😀

    #69103 Reply
    N_

    In view of the ongoing British propaganda about a “disaster” in the EU but a “great success” in Britain, the following figures may be useful.

    Numbers of reported deaths “with Covid-19” per 1 million population:

    Britain 1847
    USA 1656
    Brazil 1335
    EU 1310
    South Africa 863
    Russia 640
    China 3

    Britain is doing 41% “worse” than the EU, worse than Brazil and South Africa, 12% worse even than the US (which for most of the past 12 months had an insane baby failed casino-owner for its president and has already lost more lives than it did in both WW1 and WW2 added together), about 3 times as badly as Russia, and hundreds of time worse than China. So maybe the pandemic wasn’t defeated on the playing fields of Eton as generations of privately-educated British rulers have told themselves Napoleon was.

    Funny how “data boy Dominic” seemed to suggest yesterday that Britain was doing much better than the EU. Fan of Charles Murray and Steven Pinker that he is, he may well have a VERY different idea of what it means to do “well” in a pandemic than most of the rest of us have. I will never tire of saying that the patron saint of Tories and the British rulers generally is Thomas Malthus.

    I can almost hear rightwingers respond with apoplexy to the above figures, saying they were probably prepared by foreigners, they’re misleading, only a traitor to the wise rulership of Kim Jong-Un public schoolboys would dare think such a thing, horsewhipping is too good for anyone who says it, etc.

    So here it is again: the “data” says the EU is faring much better in this pandemic than the sh*tty little kingdom to its northwest.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by modbot.
    #69104 Reply
    ET

    N_, take a break and lighten up once in a while. Maybe engage with people and flesh out your ideas. I have to ask, what is your motivation for posting so prolifically?

    #69112 Reply
    N_

    People are being lied to and kept hooded in a very big way, @ET. The Beast is stretching.

    “<i>what is your motivation for posting so prolifically?</i>”

    Permit me to quote:

    (Question): “How are we going to bankrupt the dominant culture?”
    (Answer): “Two ways. Gradually at first, and then suddenly.”

    I will reply to the post in which you recommended a reading of the Moon of Alabama article later today or tomorrow.

    #69113 Reply
    Clark

    N_, I feel your anger, but I don’t have structural understanding of it. I’m angry too; I’m furious with the government’s response to the pandemic.

    But this pandemic is merely humanity’s trial run at handling global crisis; Arctic summer sea ice may be all gone in just fourteen years. There’s no complicated science involved; just extrapolate the graph of observed ice loss. The Arctic Ocean hasn’t been without sea ice for over 100,000 years, and when it was, sea level was at least eighteen feet higher.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_sea_ice_decline

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/arctic-summer-sea-ice-could-be-gone-by-2035

    Government responses are terrifyingly similar to those for the pandemic:

    Yet some find opportunities in the crisis. Melting ice has made the region’s abundant mineral deposits and oil and gas reserves more accessible by ship. China is heavily investing in the increasingly ice-free Northern Sea Route over the top of Russia, which promises to cut shipping times between the Far East and Europe by 10 to 15 days.

    – The Northwest Passage through the Canadian Arctic Archipelago could soon yield another shortcut. And in Greenland, vanishing ice is unearthing a wealth of uranium, zinc, gold, iron and rare earth elements. In 2019, Donald Trump claimed he was considering buying Greenland from Denmark…

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2020/oct/13/arctic-ice-melting-climate-change-global-warming

    N_, I have no idea if would hold the outlook I do had my life been more privileged or fortunate. Richard Stallman took me to the first Bitcoin conference in London and I nearly bought £5000 worth; it would be worth about £300 million by now. Would I now be in Extinction Rebellion and still be posting on Craig’s blog? Or would I be completely distracted with personal adventures enabled by my economic freedom and power? I can’t possibly know, but the latter seems more likely. Class is just another accident of birth or circumstances, but we’re all stuck on planet Earth together, and we’ll all share her fate.

    #69118 Reply
    ET

    Maybe the dominant culture needs to be bankrupted.
    I am sure you already know this N_ but you are under no oblgation to reply to me or anyone though it is good to hear/read another’s consideration. That Moon of Alabama article is just another angle.
    Speaking of angles, where is our Dave, I kind of miss him. I hope he is well.

    #69119 Reply
    ET

    Ah, ok. Things are possibly becoming a little more clear with the latest MHRA statement released.

    “A further, detailed review into five UK reports of a very rare and specific type of blood clot in the cerebral veins (sinus vein thrombosis) occurring together with lowered platelets (thrombocytopenia) is ongoing. This has been reported in less than 1 in a million people vaccinated so far in the UK, and can also occur naturally – a causal association with the vaccine has not been established.”

    I understand a little better why some countries were a little spooked though I don’t understand why they were not forthcoming with their reasoning. Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis is indeed very rare. I don’t know if the Norwegian cases were CVST nor the other cases in other countries but if they were can understand their hesitation a little better.

    #69120 Reply
    N_

    From the Telegraph:

    “A British man has died and four others have suffered a dangerous blood clotting condition after being given the AstraZeneca vaccine, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) confirmed on Thursday.

    The five men, aged between 19 and 59, suffered from Cerebral Venous Sinus Thrombosis (CVST), although the MHRA said it did not know whether it had been directly caused by the vaccine.

    The regulator urged people to continue getting the vaccine, adding that fewer than one in a million cases had been recorded after a jab and a causal link had not been established.

    The condition is so rare that it is difficult to establish an underlying rate for the population.”

    That last sentence is a classic. It’s as if two people who’ve both taken a new kind of pill at different ends of the country have both been found the next day with their heads turned round back to front, and then somebody says that since there are very few cases of that happening to people who haven’t taken the pill then we can’t say whether there’s a link.

    As for “establish a causal connection”, those are fancy words. Do 17 committees have to meet, half the backhanders from AstraZeneca have to be put into escrow in the Channel Islands pending the possible award of even bigger contracts in the future, and proof established by “eckshpurts” at the 95% level before anybody should even consider the possibility that it might be safer NOT to accept this vaccine? When we are talking about blood clotting that is actually killing people right now in many countries, do you want to be 95% confident that a certain activity causes it before you stop doing it?

    That’s pretty much exactly what Big Tobacco used to say about smoking. Asked “Do you accept that smoking causes lung cancer?”, the cartel’s line was always “it may”.

    It is a fact that the government are pushing vaccination even on those who are known to be immune because like the prime minister himself (so we are told) they have had a very nasty SARS infection that caused them to require treatment in an intensive care unit. The number of people who have survived such bad cases of Covid-19 and then been infected again and had Covid-19 again (I’m not talking about “long Covid” here) is minuscule. I mean yes I am sure we can say that if they come into contact with 10000 times the viral load that made them ill the first time then there may well be an appreciable risk, but that is getting into the ridiculous. Enough with the bullsh*t arguments and questions such as “Can you be 100% sure of that?”

    #69121 Reply
    glenn_uk

    ET: “I am sure you already know this N_ but you are under no obligation to reply to me or anyone though it is good to hear/read another’s consideration.

    Indeed – this is supposed to be a Discussion Forum – emphasis on discussion – not just a dumping ground for whatever conspiracy or dubious prediction one wants to air dozens of times a day.

    Anyway, didn’t Mystic N_eg flounce off a month or so back, saying he’d never return? Doesn’t he realise how silly one looks after doing that and then be seen hanging around?

    I’d like to know the angle, too. First of all Covid-19 was just a trick, now the vaccines are – I don’t get it. The CTs/ denialists are all over the place, and the contortions necessary to try and shoe-horn data into their chosen theories are painful to watch. It’s obvious they treat any negative news about the vaccine with something approaching real glee, but it’s not obvious why.

    The main urge might be that – one day – we’ll say to them, “Oh my! You were right all along, how astonishingly brilliant you are!”

    #69122 Reply
    SA

    N_
    It really is a matter of statistics. If condition A occurs without an underlying cause in the general population at the frequency of 1 in 100,000 which is rare, and occurs with the same frequency or even less in those who had the Astra Zeneca vaccine than you cannot establish a direct link with the two events. If however 5 out of 100,000 who had the condition then have complication A then there may be a link. The same say would apply if several people who have had the vaccine were run over by a bus the next day, you wouldn’t ascribe this to the vaccine.

    This website gives some of the underlying causes that predispose to CVST

    Amongst them is a group of rare disorders of the blood clotting mechanism and also autoimmune disorders. Some of these disorders are inherited but not everyone who inherits them will get a clot, other precipitating factors can then contribute to the clotting, such as post surgery or during pregnancy, or associated with infection or cancer, where there is a natural tendency also for the blood to clot more easily.

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